View Full Version : The inventor of table top gaming was-
flyinj
07-02-2009, 04:37 PM
Not Gary Gygax... guess again:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Wars
Amazing. Saw this over on NeoGAF, and have been reading the book which is available here:
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/3691/3691-h/3691-h.htm
Too bad it doesn't have the illustrations, which look fantastic.
Who knew?
Hawkeye Fierce
07-02-2009, 04:42 PM
I knew. And while the identity of the inventor is a little odd, otherwise I'm not sure why it's surprising that Gygax didn't event table top gaming - D&D had its roots very firmly in wargaming, which had been around for ages prior.
Quaro
07-02-2009, 04:44 PM
The illustrations are on archive.org:
http://www.archive.org/stream/littlewarsgamefo00well
I love the full title:Little Wars: a game for boys from twelve years of age to one hundred and fifty and for that more intelligent sort of girl who likes boys' games and books.
moss_icon
07-02-2009, 04:44 PM
depends if you consider this in the same genre:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriegsspiel
if so, then he wasn't even close.
Troy S Goodfellow
07-02-2009, 04:46 PM
Little Wars is a pretty famous book in game design circles. Greg Costikyan wrote about it (http://www.costik.com/littlewars.html) many years ago and I predicted this thread in my blog. (http://flashofsteel.com/index.php/2006/04/26/hg-wells-and-game-design/)
My favorite part of the book? The full title.
Little Wars: A Game for Boys from twelve years of age to one hundred and fifty and for that more intelligent sort of girl who likes boys’ games and books.
EDIT: Quaro beat me to it!
Troy
Hawkeye Fierce
07-02-2009, 04:48 PM
depends if you consider this in the same genre:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriegsspiel
if so, then he wasn't even close.I think the distinction is that Little Wars was designed purely for entertainment, whereas Kriegsspiel was actually a training program. I think it's fair to say that actual militaries were a little ahead of the curve in the wargaming race.
Greg Williams
07-02-2009, 04:55 PM
I would think "Go" (or Igo) would win this honor being over 2000 years old and still being played today.
John Many Jars
07-02-2009, 08:58 PM
I remember reading Little Wars and wondering where I could get the awesome spring-loaded toy cannons he describes.
Eduardo X
07-02-2009, 09:12 PM
I would think "Go" (or Igo) would win this honor being over 2000 years old and still being played today.
Yeah, Go was, maybe, taught to generals in China as a way to understand battleground strategy.
extarbags
07-02-2009, 09:18 PM
I knew about this, but I didn't know the full title of it. That is just phenomenal.
ElGuapo
07-02-2009, 10:01 PM
Go is a boardgame, not a tabletop wargame. Totally different.
Anti-Bunny
07-03-2009, 12:19 AM
Go is a boardgame, not a tabletop wargame. Totally different.
Yeah, if Go counts, then Backgammon does, too.. and that game is about 3,500 years old.
Anti-Bunny
07-03-2009, 12:26 AM
Plus, everyone knew Nero was a big D20 fan.
http://craphound.com/images/d4205385x.jpg
Greg Williams
07-03-2009, 12:28 AM
Was backgammon for entertainment? Igo was used as a training tool for the army.
Anti-Bunny
07-03-2009, 12:31 AM
Was backgammon for entertainment? Igo was used as a training tool for the army.
Backgammon was based on an Egyptian game called Senet.. and Senet was more of a religious thing..
No, it was really just abstract concepts, not an analog for a real life situation like wargames.
Jarmo
07-03-2009, 12:43 AM
The illustrations are on archive.org:
http://www.archive.org/stream/littlewarsgamefo00well
Thanks, Quaro, it was delightful to see the original book! I love the whimsical illustrations like the gun wheel knocking off the church steeple.
I had a little short-barreled spring-loaded howitzer as a boy. The long-barreled ones in the book are probably much more accurate. To compensate for that I liked to use explosive grenades; little chinese crackers, lit before firing. It was great if your timing was right to get an airburst. Knocked those little cardboard soldiers right over. Stunk up the house good, though. Lucky there wasn't a fire.
It's interesting how Wells sticks to actual firing guns and doesn't try to abstract that part away. Reflective of the need for some vicarious thrills in one's wargaming? Loud and graphic explosions somewhat supplant that need in video war games, I guess, though there have been many in which you get to shoot something yourself.
jellyfish
07-03-2009, 01:41 AM
Some interesting articles regarding the history of modern war-gaming...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wargaming#History_of_wargaming
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/StephenDinehart/20090527/1535/The_Origin_Of_Serious_WarGaming.php
John Many Jars
07-03-2009, 11:30 AM
Thanks, Quaro, it was delightful to see the original book! I love the whimsical illustrations like the gun wheel knocking off the church steeple.
I had a little short-barreled spring-loaded howitzer as a boy. The long-barreled ones in the book are probably much more accurate. To compensate for that I liked to use explosive grenades; little chinese crackers, lit before firing. It was great if your timing was right to get an airburst. Knocked those little cardboard soldiers right over. Stunk up the house good, though. Lucky there wasn't a fire.
Ha, that's great! I and my buddies could never have gotten away with that.
Also, we were kids right at the time when US parent groups were getting toys that actually fired missiles disabled; the rear missiles on my Micronauts Battle Cruiser were glued in place, and a family friend had the shitty Battlestar Galactica Colonial Viper with the front missile glued. And toy soldiers had been 100% injection molded for decades; no cannon for us.
It's interesting how Wells sticks to actual firing guns and doesn't try to abstract that part away. Reflective of the need for some vicarious thrills in one's wargaming? Loud and graphic explosions somewhat supplant that need in video war games, I guess, though there have been many in which you get to shoot something yourself.
Yep, Wells probably would have loved video war games.
[edit]Working spring cannons are plentiful on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/BRITAINS-TIN-AND-METAL-SPRING-LOADED-ARTLLERY-CANNON_W0QQitemZ320390134148QQcmdZViewItemQQptZToy _Soldiers?hash=item4a98bd7984&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1240|293%3A1| 294%3A50
http://cgi.ebay.com/TOY-CANNON-World-War-One-USA-Metal-Gun_W0QQitemZ200357041499QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Def aultDomain_0?hash=item2ea635d55b&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1240|293%3A1| 294%3A50
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Toy-Military-WWII-Britains-155MM-Gun-Cannon_W0QQitemZ150354989350QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2301db1126&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1240|293%3A1| 294%3A50
http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-TIN-TOY-GERMAN-MILITARY-CANNON_W0QQitemZ220443860693QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_0?hash=item33537a5ed5&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1240|293%3A1| 294%3A50
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