Call Of Juarez: Bound in Blood [Archive]

Naeblis

07-01-2009, 12:37 PM

Just some fast first impressions.

Take Call of Juarez.

Instead of fixing the the stealth part because it didn't work so well in the first game, just drop it, making the game a full shooter game, as average as every shooter on the face of Earth.

In fact, drop the little exploration aspects and put more firefights, more explosions, and make a more "cinematic" (i.e. more scripts and linear scenarios) feeling.

Put automatic regeneration of health, of course.

And cover mechanics! (ok, this is a good part, they made a very interesting choice over how it works, very natural and in first person)

Make the time bullet more easy making that you even don't have to aim, or in the other case don't have to press the fire button, just pass the cursor over the enemies.

Put a bit of autoaim in some weapons, in the pc version, and don't give the optio to deactivate it (still searching on the net, looking for an unofficial solution).

Use fixed points to mark the use of the rope.

And the final touch, use a permanent yellow star to indicate the current objective in the game.

In other words, just i feared some weeks ago while watching a video of the game, is a Call of Juarez more actionized and streamlined, with a bit of the current star, the other "Call of", if possible.
At least the plot looks good, as the first game, pretty above the average of the genre. Ah, and the graphics and performance are very good.

Robert Sharp

07-01-2009, 12:39 PM

Rock8man

07-01-2009, 12:40 PM

Eurogamer has a fairly favorable review (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/call-of-juarez-bound-blood-review).

Sounds like this will make a good semi-bargain pick-up.

Naeblis

07-01-2009, 12:42 PM

Except for making it easy (and I'll have to see how that works in practice), those all sound like good things to me. Of course, I didn't play the first game, so maybe they undermine it in some way. But most of those changes sound positive. In fact, I'm not more interested in thie game than I was before.

Don't take it as something personal, but thousand of kilometers away from you (surely) i am facepalming here, right now, hard.

>_<

Edit: Also, it's not like i am saying it's a BAD game, but the first impression it's that Techland has taken the Dark Path. Easy, cheap, powerful in apparance, popular with the ladies...
As everyone else.

Shadari

07-01-2009, 12:44 PM

Don't take it as something personal, but thousand of kilometers away from you (surely) i am facepalming here, right now, hard.
So am I! Can we please revoke Robert's gamer card? ;)

Marcin

07-01-2009, 12:57 PM

So am I! Can we please revoke Robert's gamer card? ;)

Thirded.

MSUSteve

07-01-2009, 01:04 PM

Robert Sharp

07-01-2009, 01:08 PM

As I said, I didn't play the first game. So I am going strictly on the statements in the first post. Perhaps the first game was more open-ended and allowed for interesting strategies? If so, and these changes ruin all of that, then I'll be sad with the rest of you. But AS STATED, they don't sound like bad changes.

BDGE

07-01-2009, 01:29 PM

I just beat the first game a few weeks ago(360) and a lot of that list aren't really changes.

-Health Regen was already in place in Juarez 1.

-Exploration is a myth. Juarez 1 had a few 'large scale' environments, but that only ever meant getting to point B took a bit longer to reach. There were collectables to find scattered about, but the progression was as straightforward as a Halo game...just replace the warthog for a horse on occasion.

-Using rope-markers is probably an improvement. I didn't like pixel-hunting each branch in Juarez 1 to find the special swing spot. It was always obvious when to use the rope, but fiddling around trying to line everything up needed a fix.

-First game always had a Call of Duty-esque designator in place to guide you to your objective already. So it's a yellow-star now instead of a white compass arrow...

Rest of the changes seem fine. Bullet time already felt broken in Juarez 1, the ability to automagically kill painted targets instead of actually clicking a button, doesn't change the fact that it still makes the game immeasurably simple.

I'm looking forward to this game though, Juarez 1 did have a really strong cast of characters, and a great sense of self. I would like to hear about how gun duels are handled, because they were easilly my least favorite part of Juarez 1.

MSUSteve

07-01-2009, 01:38 PM

Amazon has the 360 version on sale for $49.99 (http://www.amazon.com/Call-Juarez-Bound-Blood-Xbox-360/dp/B001RTCOWK/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1246477020&sr=8-5).

Paul_cze

07-01-2009, 01:45 PM

Liked the first one very much..amazing atmosphere, like the quest of getting the feathers from the top of the mountain..awesome.

Very much looking forward to the second one, but I will wait till its priced a little lower, in the 15 pounds range.

As for the first post - damn : /

BDGE

07-01-2009, 01:52 PM

Gametrailers video review is pretty favorable. RE:the 'freedom' of the world, it seems there are now actual sidequests to partake in later missions that have you running about the open world for wanted poster contracts and such. First game never had that, so that might alleviate some concerns of it being a total corridor crawl? (Even if it is still merely follow the large star affairs)

Also, you now can upgrade your arsenal via cash earned, which sounds like an improvement over finding hidden guns that only stay with you in the mission you are on, as in the first game(the achievement for finding all those damn guns was irritating). Again, those sidequests seem to factor in for this.

Edit: whoops, I meant Co-op's video special on Juarez. Not Gametrailers.

Naeblis

07-01-2009, 02:01 PM

I just beat the first game a few weeks ago(360) and a lot of that list aren't really changes.

-Health Regen was already in place in Juarez 1.

I finished it two times (pc version), i could swear it used a health kits solution. Perhaps i am totally wrong and making myself an ass. That's a strong possibility.

Rock8man

07-01-2009, 02:05 PM

I finished it two times (pc version), i could swear it used a health kits solution. Perhaps i am totally wrong and making myself an ass. That's a strong possibility.

It's possible that the PC version was very different. The PC version got much poorer reviews, and came out about 8 months (or thereabouts) before the 360 version. Apparently they made a number of improvements for the 360 release that were looked upon favorably by reviewers. I have no idea from personal experience though since I've only seen the 360 version.

Cubit

07-01-2009, 02:10 PM

It's possible that the PC version was very different. The PC version got much poorer reviews, and came out about 8 months (or thereabouts) before the 360 version. Apparently they made a number of improvements for the 360 release that were looked upon favorably by reviewers. I have no idea from personal experience though since I've only seen the 360 version.

Are you thinking of a different game? It was released on the 360 on June 5th, 2007 and on the PC on June 12th, 2007. A quick look at meta-critic reviews shows the critical response was pretty similar for both versions.

BDGE

07-01-2009, 02:14 PM

There were 'health-kit' like items in the 360 game too, but they were largely unnecessary because of the regen. Collecting them did help a bit since it was faster than waiting for full health to return on its own. I never once hunted any down though, even playing on Very Hard for the achievement. Usually I got them when collecting ammo from bodies, which also dropped these health items on occasion.

But yea, it is possible that it was a change for the 360 release. I do remember reading about the console port fixing up a lot of things.

Cubit: I think the US version hit PC on that date, but it did originally release in 2006 in other territories. It's possible the PC version was just delayed to coincide with the 360 release in North America, but didn't actually have the console fixes.

Rock8man

07-01-2009, 02:17 PM

Are you thinking of a different game? It was released on the 360 on June 5th, 2007 and on the PC on June 12th, 2007. A quick look at meta-critic reviews shows the critical response was pretty similar for both versions.

You're right, the overall response on both versions seems to have been about the same. My bad. I was mis-remembering. Perhaps I was thinking about the intervening months where I was hoping they'd be improving the game when it came out for the 360.

As far as the PC release, I assumed it was back in September 2006 because that's when I read Keiron's review over at Eurogamer (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/r_callofjuarez_pc). And then several months later when it came out for the 360, I read Tom Bramwell's review of that version (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/call-of-juarez-review).

Maybe the PC version only came out in Europe back in Sept 06? It is a European developer's game, so it's a good possibility.

Hump

07-01-2009, 02:32 PM

I absolutely despise the way they've changed the bullet time (or concentration mode...) in the new game. Also, it lost that edgy experimental feel the original had as far as the gameplay went.

Thierry Nguyen

07-01-2009, 03:09 PM

There's only like, six or so side-missions spread out across two specific chapters. It's basically a tease of open-world, but nothing really substantial. The side-missions are all fundamentally "Ride here, kill fools, and duel the last guy", but with different flavor text.

Also, there are three concentration modes:
-Ray: Sorta like Panzer Dragoon, in that you have a time limit to designate targets with the cursor, and when the time ends, you unleash your bullets on said targets.
-Thomas: You auto-acquire guys, and basically "hammer down" on your pistol to fire on them (not entirely sure how you do this on PC; for console you snap the analog stick back and forth).
-Both Brothers Simultaneously: A lot like COJ, where your two reticules are each moving towards the center of the screen, and you move and fire each gun yourself during this general slow-motion moment.

Naeblis

07-01-2009, 03:23 PM

More:

The new duel system is interesting, the idea itself is pretty good, better than in the first game, but the implementation is only half-right. I have the feeling that it could be even better.

There are some cool scenes and intense firefights, i concede that.
But after playing another three levels i am more convinced of my initial impressions. The whole pace of the game is changed, to a more Call of Duty-like experience. It's less natural and more gamey, with less lethal gunfights, a more forgiving health system, but with around three times more enemies than before. It's not like CoD where there are infinite enemies but it's still like a consistent torrent of baddies to kill. And in the first hours there are various "man the turret" moments and a long "fire from the moving vehicle" like the famous vehicle scenes from every CoD. Including passing through an entire building with your tank... i mean horse carriage.
Add to that the loss of variety without Billy (i liked those levels, even if some stealth moments were too hard, and the "exploration" in nature was staged, at least it was a nice change) and it feels an inferior game to me.

Cubit

07-02-2009, 01:30 PM

If anyone is on the border about getting this game, McMaster has the first 20 min of gameplay over at Framerated.com

http://www.framerated.com/gameplay.aspx?vid=194

Moore

07-02-2009, 05:19 PM

-Thomas: You auto-acquire guys, and basically "hammer down" on your pistol to fire on them (not entirely sure how you do this on PC; for console you snap the analog stick back and forth).

Wait, you have to fan your hammer? That is awesome.

Thierry Nguyen

07-02-2009, 06:17 PM

Is that the right term? THANK YOU. If was bugging me, that I knew there was a term for it, but I couldn't recall what it was.
But yea, the concentration mode for one of the brothers is fanning the hammer as he auto-acquires guys.

TomChick

07-02-2009, 08:03 PM

Is that the right term?

That's the gay way to say it. The manly cowboy way to say it is "whack away on the thing you use to cock the gun".

-Tom

BDGE

07-02-2009, 08:07 PM

That's the gay way to say it. The manly cowboy way to say it is "whack away on the thing you use to cock the gun".

-Tom

Actually I believe it's "fingering the cock"...

Coca Cola Zero

07-02-2009, 08:07 PM

The original Call of Juarez PC version did come out almost a year earlier in Europe than it did here in the US (on either PC or 360), because I remember expressing some pre-release interest in it on a forum and having some Europerson be all like "What? Didn't that game come out last year? Played it, it kinda sucked" (very paraphrased).

I have no idea how the various versions might be different from each other, if at all, though it is pretty odd if they waited almost a year and then released exactly the same game in the US as was seen in Europe.

TomChick

07-02-2009, 08:09 PM

Actually I believe it's "fingering the cock"...

Well, that's not entirely accurate, since you're not using your fingers. You're whaling away on it with your palm. Like so.

Demonstrates with rapid back-and-forth motion of cupped hand at about waist level

-Tom

intruder

07-03-2009, 04:53 AM

I got the impression from various previews that their main problem was that one who played the first game already knows how the story of the new game will end because it's a prequel.
So if you can play this one here first and then the 2nd one.

I will do so because due to my huge backlog I didn't play the 1st one yet. :)

spelk

07-03-2009, 05:04 AM

Cupping the cock?

Can I ask, does the game support online co-op or is it another "on the same console" sort of co-op that I always get conned into buying and regretting (damn that Kane and Lynch co-op reference!, damn that Blazing Birds co-op claim!)... in my books, if its not over Xbox Live co-op, its not proper co-op!

Shakes his fist and reddens in the face, like Basil Fawlty

mashakos

07-03-2009, 05:12 AM

Amazon has the 360 version on sale for $49.99 (http://www.amazon.com/Call-Juarez-Bound-Blood-Xbox-360/dp/B001RTCOWK/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1246477020&sr=8-5).
wow, is that a ... sale?
EDIT: woops! thought you were talking about the first version :p

Rob_Merritt

07-03-2009, 10:11 AM

Thierry Nguyen

07-03-2009, 12:59 PM

Can I ask, does the game support online co-op or is it another "on the same console" sort of co-op that I always get conned into buying and regretting (damn that Kane and Lynch co-op reference!, damn that Blazing Birds co-op claim!)... in my books, if its not over Xbox Live co-op, its not proper co-op!

Shakes his fist and reddens in the face, like Basil Fawlty

No co-op at all, which feels really weird since the SP is basically co-op with the AI.

mashakos

07-03-2009, 01:29 PM

I'm on a fence here. I am really wanting a FPS game. I wanted to like the first Call of Juares but ended up rage quiting. I spent 2 hours trying to escape from town. Dying and reloading over and over and over. The worst part was trying to use a whip to cross gaps. I have a choice between this and FEAR 2. Neither excite me.

If it's because of the controls, get it on the pc. A razer lachesis mouse comes with 9 buttons. You'd only need to use one keyboard button to play fps games.

Jon_Danger

07-03-2009, 02:48 PM

Put a bit of autoaim in some weapons, in the pc version, and don't give the optio to deactivate it (still searching on the net, looking for an unofficial solution).

Blech... :(

Cubit

07-03-2009, 02:53 PM

Hmm. In McMaster's 20's video of the 360 version, he goes into the options and there are toggles to turn Auto Aim and Sticky Aim on and off. Would be really weird if they left this out of the PC version.

Cubit

07-06-2009, 03:05 PM

This was just released on Impulse, if that is your preference for downloadable titles. Sadly, it looks like the Impulse version has TAGES drm included as opposed to the Steam version which has no 3rd party drm. boooo

Juste

07-07-2009, 02:10 AM

Got this yesterday and put in an hour last night. I really enjoyed it so far, looks like a strong story so far and the gunplay is pretty good. I quit just after the first duel but so far so good.

Looking forward to trying some multiplayer this week, it looks like they have implemented some interesting modes. Anyone tried MP yet?

rezaf

07-07-2009, 02:41 AM

I wanted to like the first Call of Juares but ended up rage quiting. I spent 2 hours trying to escape from town. Dying and reloading over and over and over.

I'm still amazed at how moronic the decision was to put what was easily the most frustrating and least fun part of the entire game right at the start of the game to scare new players away. I was SOOOOO close to uninstalling this on the spot before I hit a streak of luck and managed to make it out of town.
Some of the other stealth parts were somewhat frustrating and annoying, but none was so plain terrible as the one at the beginning of the game.

I'll definately try the sequel at some point, even though I'm somewhat sceptical about the adjustments made.
_____
rezaf

Calday

07-07-2009, 03:10 AM

I bought it for the scenery. The EG review says the misty forests are the stars, and what I liked most about the first was the sense of open spaces in...where was it set anyway? There were Apaches in it and it's near Mexico, but it looks very green for the places that I vaguely think are near Mexico. Do any bits of Texas look like that? Please forgive me, I'm not from your big lovely country.

Anyway if it delivers on the mist and open spaces and the gunfighting is reasonably fun, I'll consider my money well spent. I'm troubled by things people have said upthread about the lack of sense of exploration. There really wasn't much of that in the first game - there was space, but nothing actually to find - but the big sky fooled me into thinking there was.

Robert Sharp

07-07-2009, 09:23 AM

Yes, lots of places in TX are verdant. However, there's also the time period. A lot of the Western U.S. looked much nicer in the 19th century before the dustbowl stuff. I have no idea where or when this game is set though.

Rock8man

07-07-2009, 09:27 AM

One of the surprises for me when driving through Texas for the first time in 1991 was just how green most of Texas is. I always imagined most of Texas being desert, but almost the entire drives from Houston to Austin, Austin to San Antonio, and San Antonio to Houston is all greenery. Albeit, somewhat boring greenery.

Calday

07-07-2009, 01:05 PM

just how green most of Texas is .

Yeah, I just curiosity-googled. The hills around Austin could pass for France. Next I'll find out it isn't always snowing in Moscow.

I've played a few levels now and it is, indeed, CoD with mesas. There is a decent amount of open space, but there aren't the deliciously wasteful expanses of space you had in the first one.

Actually that's pretty good shorthand for what they've done with the rest of it. They've removed all the features that didn't add any obvious value, and lost all the second-order emergent value that came with them. I mean, the second stealth level with the lightning flashes that revealed you: the actual lightning flash mechanic was frustrating and a little buggy and the level was too big with silly dead ends, but you were left with the sense of having explored a world that had big places and weather.

The one open-world level I played is like a proof of concept of open-world. There are exactly three missions: a gunfight in a cave, a gunfight in a canyon and a gunfight in a villa. The villa has eight locked doors that you can't open and one locked door than you can. But it's moderately good fun.

The horses are amazing. They have the turning circle of a unicycle and the acceleration of a sports car and they go up rubble-strewn forty-degree slopes without so much as faltering. I blew up a barrel of explosives next to one's head and it didn't twitch an ear.

Rock8man

07-07-2009, 01:15 PM

Thanks for the report Calday. You should lurk less and post more often than once a year. :)

Calday

07-08-2009, 02:38 AM

Thanks! But I've used up years of posts now. I should probably stay away until 2011. :)

While I'm here though I'll add that the second open-world section really delivers for me. If as Thierry says upthread it's the last open-world bit then I'll play slow and make it last. The gameplay hasn't changed but the environment is stunning. Arizona I think. It reminds me of Stonetalon, which makes it Arizona doesn't it?Anyway bleached, succulent and painterly like the Deadwood opening credits. I think the Deadwood influence is visible elsewhere as well. Not powerfully so, but there seems to be more washing on the line and more mud, and I'd be less surprised to see a character lurching out of an outhouse fastening antique underwear and yelling obscenities.

The gunplay really is simple. The autoheal is generous and it's pretty hard to get killed (on Medium) unless you do something careless. For me it's just slick enough not to be dull. A better FPS player would definitely have to knock it up a notch. The duels are difficult and faffy and I need multiple attempts though. And because the cursor travels up from the ground and they're all fighting in the wide stance, the optimal quickest shot is always directly in the groin. I wince in sympathy each time now. Fan your hammer indeed.

Ray's bullet time - enemies highlighted, wave mouse cursor over them to queue up shots - is a lot like queuing up orders in an RTS. I almost want to shift-click. In the bullet time view it's hard to make out what you're looking at if it's not an enemy - other shootable things aren't highlighted and will pick up a shoot instruction if you mouseover them accidentally. Things like horses, cows, explosives. And chickens. It becomes very easy to request chicken genocide without realising what you're doing.

It uses Euphoria, doesn't it? I realised when I started recognising body language from GTA IV. It's weird seeing a US Marshal cocking his head like Dimitri. It's weirder seeing an Apache Chief folding his arms and turning his back like Niko.

Senjak

07-09-2009, 08:06 AM

The duels are difficult and faffy and I need multiple attempts though. And because the cursor travels up from the ground and they're all fighting in the wide stance, the optimal quickest shot is always directly in the groin. I wince in sympathy each time now. Fan your hammer indeed.

I had to repeat most of the duels many times, especially in the second half when the duels seemed to get harder (though maybe I just wanted to believe they were getting harder because I was failing more). After being shot by the enemy duelists over and over, I was happy that most of my victories involved shooting the other guy in the junk.

I'm trying to get the Sharpshooter Destruction achievement (use Thomas to kill the sharpshooters in Chapter IV in 10 seconds), and can't seem to get it, even though I'm sure I killed those guys in less than 10 seconds. Anyone know when the 10 second clock starts ticking? I got the Sharpshooter Distraction achievement for using Ray to kill them, and I'm assuming those are the same sharpshooters you have to kill for the 'Destruction achievement.

I spent some time collecting the specific weapon achievements, and here's what I learned:

A good place to get the Vindicator achievement is Chapter XV, because there's an enemy with a portable gatling in front of you as the chapter starts, and another a short distance behind him. If you run both gatlings out of ammo and restart the chapter, those kills still count towards the achievement.

I never used the shotgun in the single player campaign (due to the 2 shot capacity and the short effective range), but going back and getting it wasn't too painful. Chapter IV is a pretty good place for a shotgun because the engagement ranges are short and there's always lots of cover while you (constantly) reload. Chapter XIV is even better because you can have Thomas rope up onto that wall, hide behind the crates, and kill an unending supply of enemies (I think this is one of the only places in the game with infinitely respawning enemies). If you don't have a shotgun when the chapter starts, there's a gun salesman in front of the main gate with a nice selection of prime and superb weapons.

To get the Man of the Hood achievement for using the bow exclusively in Chapter XII, you have to ignore Ray when he tells you to get on the wagon-mounted gatling.

Chapter IV is a good place to get Arkansas Fried Rooster because there are lots of chickens, and frequent pauses in the action when you can focus on dynamiting the birds. Thomas will call you a meanie for the birdicide.

Multiplayer has a scoped Classic rifle, which is exactly what I wished I had during the campaign. Is there any way to get it in single-player, or does it just not exist there?

Marcin

07-09-2009, 01:15 PM

It becomes very easy to request chicken genocide without realising what you're doing.

Nice.

Juste

07-10-2009, 03:12 AM

Multiplayer has a scoped Classic rifle, which is exactly what I wished I had during the campaign. Is there any way to get it in single-player, or does it just not exist there?

You can buy it at the start of the chapter where you start off with the Mexicans in the mountains, then leave with the wagons and get attacked by the Indians. I bought it but it's not really useful, the reloads are painfully slow.

Juste

07-10-2009, 03:13 AM

I had to repeat most of the duels many times, especially in the second half when the duels seemed to get harder (though maybe I just wanted to believe they were getting harder because I was failing more). After being shot by the enemy duelists over and over, I was happy that most of my victories involved shooting the other guy in the junk.

I think I finally figured the duels out. Put your hand near the gun, then hold the right stick straight down. That way your hand will not drift away from the gun and the duels become much easier.