Has anyone seen the Governor of South Carolina? [Archive]

BlueJackalope

06-22-2009, 04:37 PM

Given that Sanford has been talked about as a potential 2012 GOP nominee. This is just weird man. (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/06/22/south-carolina-governor-goes-missing/)

Even his wife, Jenny, said Monday that she didn’t know where the governor was, according to the Associated Press. But Sanford's office expressed no concern Monday afternoon about his absence.

Sanford spokesman Joel Sawyer said Sanford “put in a lot of time during this last legislative session, and after the session winds down it's not uncommon for him to go out of pocket for a few days at a time to clear his head.”

However, Sawyer added in a statement sent to CNN: “Obviously, that's going to be somewhat out of the question this time given the attention this particular absence has gotten. Before leaving last week, he let staff know his whereabouts and that he'd be difficult to reach. Should any emergencies arise between the times in which he checks in, our staff would obviously be in contact with other state officials as the situation warrants before making any decisions.”

Earlier in the day, Sawyer said Sanford had simply taken some time away from work to “recharge after the stimulus battle.” Sawyer did not address Jenny Sanford’s comments to the AP in either statement.

EDIT: Milk Carton Time - http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/03/11/art.sanfordpt0311.gi.jpg

Mr_PeaCH

06-22-2009, 05:10 PM

Sanford had simply taken some time away from work to “recharge after the stimulus battle.”

I'll bet he does, I'll bet he does!

Lorini

06-22-2009, 05:11 PM

Hmm, for many employers, if you don't show up or call in within 3 days, you are fired. Maybe they need this for the government too. It's ridiculous that he can just walk away anytime he feels like it and still get paid.

Cubit

06-22-2009, 05:18 PM

this dude is totally shagging another woman (or man)

jerri blank

06-22-2009, 05:24 PM

There's got to be a scandal here. His wife totally threw him under the bus.

jpinard

06-22-2009, 05:34 PM

There's got to be a scandal here. His wife totally threw him under the bus.

My guess as well.

RyanMichael

06-22-2009, 05:52 PM

His wife totally threw him under the bus.

Literally or figuratively? ;)

Mark Asher

06-22-2009, 07:40 PM

There's got to be a scandal here. His wife totally threw him under the bus.

Yeah, that is just weird. Spouses of politicians know not to throw more logs onto the fire. She could have easily said something else. How hard is it to say, "He's on a retreat" or something like that?

Maybe he is in disguise and walking among the common people of his state, like in one of those movies where the king is disguised as a poor person and walks around and gets to hear what it's really like. He'll come back and fire his entire staff.

Jeremy Johnsen

06-22-2009, 07:50 PM

Is there any possible way he's just out fishing for a few days? You'd think so until the wife commented. Now it just seems like he's hiding while he prepares a statement to address being caught in a public restroom with a man/in the basement of a nursery with a child/in a stable with a goat. Why else would there be any need for secrecy instead of a straight answer?

BlueJackalope

06-22-2009, 07:59 PM

Found! Not really... (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/24046.html)

Lt. Gov. Andre Bauer, who was elected separately from Sanford, issued a statement to POLITICO after a day of speculation about the governor’s whereabouts.

Bauer said he called Sanford’s office Monday and requested an “immediate phone conversation with the Governor.”

“That request was denied because the Governor’s chief of staff does not know where the Governor is, and has not communicated with the Governor since he left South Carolina last Thursday,” Bauer said. “I cannot take lightly that his staff has not had communication with him for more than four days, and that no one, including his own family, knows his whereabouts.”

But Sanford spokesman Joel Sawyer issued a statement late Monday night saying that the governor was “hiking along the Appalachian Trail,” the first word on Sanford’s location since he was seen departing the state capital on Thursday.

“I apologize for taking so long to send this update, and was waiting to see if a more definitive idea of what part of the Trail he was on before we did so,” Sawyer said in the statement.

Yet asked if he had spoken with Sanford, Sawyer wrote in an email message: “No, not today.”

Yes. Everything is fine....just fine...

And the spokesman wouldn’t say where on the approximately 2,175-mile long trail Sanford is.

“We're not discussing location, other than to say he's on the Trail,” Sawyer wrote.

As for Bauer’s accusation, Sawyer shot back: “We actually just tried to call the Lt. Gov., and he didn't call back.”

The extraordinary back-and-forth between the state’s top two officials is suffused with politics. Sanford and Bauer have a distant relationship and Bauer is positioning himself to run for governor next year, when the governor is term-limited out of office.

Wait! There is more good stuff!

Sanford’s wife, Jenny, also told The Associated Press Monday that she was unconcerned and that the second-term governor is “writing something and wanted some space to get away from the kids.”

Maybe he just didn't want another crappy tie and a six pack of aqua velva the kids always get him and make him wear! Maybe that!?

Other than that things have been going good right?

Sanford’s solo summer sabbatical is only the latest reminder of his eccentricity.

“He marches to his own crazy beat,” said one veteran Palmetto State GOP strategist when asked about this Salinger-like episode.

Sanford, a potential 2012 presidential aspirant, has previously raised eyebrows in South Carolina for bringing squealing and defecating pigs into the statehouse to make his case against pork-barrel spending and for sporting a ratty blazer to his own Inauguration.

Please please please please please please please please please please let us see a Palin/Sandford ticket.

Acid

06-22-2009, 08:02 PM

Something about this delights me.

Not that I hope any harm comes to the man. I'm just giggling over the idea of a governor who turns off his phone and goes away.

(Maybe that's because I live in New York...)

Jeremy Johnsen

06-22-2009, 08:32 PM

“I was recently made aware that Governor Sanford has frequently been eluding SLED agents and disappearing at odd times,” Knotts said.
Why would a governor have to run away from his security detail? Can't you hike with a bodyguard tagging along?

Really strange.

Dean

06-22-2009, 08:39 PM

I can't believe no one did the horror movie one where he takes a wrong turn, loses cell phone service, stops at what seems like a nice bed and breakfast, and ends up being tortured to death and made into sausage.

Or is that too classless?

jerri blank

06-22-2009, 08:42 PM

Why would a governor have to run away from his security detail? Can't you hike with a bodyguard tagging along?

You can hike, but it's difficult to have sex with a man, a child or a goat (of either sex) with a bodyguard around.

RyanMichael

06-22-2009, 08:43 PM

We're all gonna feel like assholes tomorrow when it turns out he's in our sausage.

Mr_PeaCH

06-22-2009, 09:20 PM

Heh. CNN had a clip of the Lt. Gov who opined that (paraphrasing here) in a post-9/11 world our leaders are all targets and you can't be too careful. It almost sounded like he was trying to chide Sanford for taking leave without informing him if he didn't come off as such a dipshit alarmist.

John Many Jars

06-22-2009, 09:33 PM

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t265/JDONALD_2007/FREDSANFORD.jpg

Sarkus

06-22-2009, 09:50 PM

Wow, I didn't realize that knowing at all times where the governor of South Carolina is was so important to the security of our nation.

I hope Obama learns from this and makes sure we all know exactly where he is at all times. Perhaps he should use Twitter so we know when he is taking a crap and stuff.

foogla

06-22-2009, 11:57 PM

it's ok Sarkus, this is a bipartisan thread, you can drop your act

Midnight Son

06-23-2009, 09:46 AM

Wide Stance gone wrong?

Blackadar

06-23-2009, 10:43 AM

I think he's off visiting Jimmy Hoffa and Elvis.

Mark Asher

06-23-2009, 10:54 AM

It gets better:

But many wondered aloud how this traditional, family-loving, Republican governor of a southern state could miss Fathers Day. After all he’s got four children! Was something sinister in the air?

Then it took a Farrelly brothers screenplay type of twist. Sanford had not disappeared. According to his spokesman, he was hiking on the Appalachian Trail. Coincidentally, on Naked Hiking Day.

It’s a big tradition. Many hikers celebrate the summer solstice by hiking au naturel. It just so happened the solstice occurred on Fathers Day — one of the days Sanford was hiking.

http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2009/06/23/sanford-disappears-to-hike-appalachian-trail-on-naked-hiking-day/

Skipper

06-23-2009, 11:45 AM

Governor's staff: "Uh, we had a hiking trip, but uh... everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?"

BlueJackalope

06-23-2009, 11:59 AM

Governor's staff: "Uh, we had a hiking trip, but uh... everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?"

He still hasn't talked to anyone other than his staff right? This seems very early 70's politburo - "The great leader is fine. We played volleyball with him just last night" - ish.

I wonder if we'll ever get the whole story, or if a' la John Edwards everyone stops digging as soon as its clear his political career is over?

Skipper

06-23-2009, 12:05 PM

Even if he is an outdoorsman and a hunter, he should have the sense to tell either his family, friends, or coworkers that he's taking a trip and will be out of contact for a bit. Pick any of those three groups. Any. The fact that none seemed to have a clue and that even now the stories from at least two of those sources conflict, yeah, something isn't right here.

I'm sure it will all either erupt into scandal or blow over in apparent nonsense. Either way it's fun to guess about it. I hate the guy, I'd love for it to be a scandal.

Tim James

06-23-2009, 12:12 PM

He still hasn't talked to anyone other than his staff right? This seems very early 70's politburo - "The great leader is fine. We played volleyball with him just last night" - ish.What's sad is his staff has to sound like this to try to preserve his career or something. Politicians can't just have a little breakdown and get away for a weekend like a normal person because it tarnishes the veneer of our leaders, so you have to cover for it somehow.

Jag

06-23-2009, 12:46 PM

What's sad is his staff has to sound like this to try to preserve his career or something.

It sounds like he took his staff for a walk....

arctangent

06-23-2009, 03:27 PM

I think he was abducted by space aliens and probed while hiking naked. They probably changed his DNA or something...

http://cdn.airamerica.com/files/www/imagecache/gallery_med/albums/Mark%20Sanford.jpg

Cubit

06-23-2009, 04:31 PM

The official story is that he was on the Appalachian trail, but it looks like there are witnesses who saw him board a plane at the airport.

http://www.wyff4.com/news/19837234/detail.html

this keeps getting better and better!

Hanacker

06-23-2009, 05:34 PM

What's sad is his staff has to sound like this to try to preserve his career or something. Politicians can't just have a little breakdown and get away for a weekend like a normal person because it tarnishes the veneer of our leaders, so you have to cover for it somehow.

What normal person can disappear for half a week without telling their wife or their boss without consequences?

alexlitel

06-23-2009, 05:58 PM

Atlanta-based news cameraman Ted Madison has used this event to convince indie distributors that his documentary on Naked Hiking Day is not a porno version of a Kelly Reichardt film.

Tim James

06-23-2009, 06:08 PM

What normal person can disappear for half a week without telling their wife or their boss without consequences?No one said there wouldn't be consequences with his family or work. Just that as a public official, everyone has to scramble to make it look like everything's fine!

bago

06-23-2009, 07:27 PM

Governor's staff: "Uh, we had a hiking trip, but uh... everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?"

*ZAP* (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPlN6mtVE3o&feature=player_embedded)

There's this Turkish movie called G.O.R.A. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0384116/) that's filled with this kind of thing...

TomChick

06-23-2009, 08:14 PM

Atlanta-based news cameraman Ted Madison has used this event to convince indie distributors that his documentary on Naked Hiking Day is not a porno version of a Kelly Reichardt film.

Way too obscure, but no less lovely. Good one!

-Tom

triggercut

06-24-2009, 06:57 AM

So yeah. Buenos Aires. Of course.

Angie Gallant

06-24-2009, 06:57 AM

So, did you know that the Appalachian Trail goes all the way down to Argentina (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0609/Sanford_was_in_Argentina.html)? TRUFAX.

triggercut

06-24-2009, 07:10 AM

Skipper

06-24-2009, 07:11 AM

Aaaaaand another story bringing up the fact that it's yet another black eye for the GOP. (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iXXg0JTCcYPWyzhjSlsNoDUhlZSAD99126A01)

NEW YORK (AP) — South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford's mysterious disappearance from his state, topped with misinformation from his staff about where he had gone and what he'd been doing, is the latest sign that Republican governors — once thought to be President Obama's most credible adversaries — haven't quite lived up to their billing.
...
But the latest high-profile fiasco involves Sanford, whose outspoken effort to refuse part of the federal stimulus money due his state has made him a darling of conservatives and fueled talk that he harbors presidential aspirations.
...
The 49-year old Sanford has been a fierce critic of Obama's $787 billion economic stimulus package, even going to court to block $700 million South Carolina was to receive. He lost the court battle but boosted his national profile, making him a target of attack from national Democratic operatives — many of whom pounced on Sanford's unusual walk in the woods.

"Being a chief executive means being on call all the time, and Gov. Sanford either doesn't get that part of the job or can't handle it," Hari Sevugan, a spokesman for the Democratic National Committee, scolded.

Tim James

06-24-2009, 07:19 AM

"Being a chief executive means being on call all the time, and Gov. Sanford either doesn't get that part of the job or can't handle it," Hari Sevugan, a spokesman for the Democratic National Committee, scolded with intense and overwhelming glee, followed by a mad scientist laugh.

triggercut

06-24-2009, 07:38 AM

Hey Tim, you know how you avoid being scolded by the DNC for partisan gain? Here's one idea: you don't abandon your job and family without notice for six days.

Angie Gallant

06-24-2009, 07:49 AM

I'd consider disappearing to another country for 6 days with no warning and no contact to be grounds for justifiable homicide personally.

Skipper

06-24-2009, 08:19 AM

Tim's right though, of course the Democrats are going to pounce on this. But what's telling is that at least one or two Republicans have made statements along the lines of "he should have let someone know," one was Lt. Gov. Andre Bauer. It's baffling that someone would take off like that. What is he meeting with drug lords or something?

Staff Sergeant

06-24-2009, 08:43 AM

What's the timeline for officially reporting someone as a missing person?

Also, I thought Tim's post was funny.

jerri blank

06-24-2009, 08:49 AM

I know if someone forced ME to accept more than $700 million, I'd have to take off for parts unknown to clear my head.

Sheesh - if that really IS the reason he left, his ass deserves to be recalled right out of office. I'm pretty sure South Carolina, like every other state, can use that money. Any governor who would turn down help for political and/or (stupid) philosophical reasons doesn't deserve to be a governor. Go the hell off and be a poli sci professor or something, then you can bitch and moan about it all you want but you won't be hurting poor people.

Robert Sharp

06-24-2009, 09:20 AM

I didn't see any indication that that was WHY he left. It was just brought up to show why he is beloved by some members of the GOP. I'm sure the citizens of his state who would benefit from that money were equally thrilled.

I'm opposed to the bailout too, but damn. Won't that money just go somewhere else if SC doesn't take it?

As for taking off? I would NEVER do that to my wife, unless we were having a serious serious fight (which I can't even imagine reaching that point). My wife always knows where I am, unless I'm with my mistress, of course, in which case she still THINKS she knows. You don't just take off on your family. And on Father's Day? Just bizarre. (or bazarr...maybe he was shopping)

Mark Asher

06-24-2009, 09:20 AM

I'd consider disappearing to another country for 6 days with no warning and no contact to be grounds for justifiable homicide personally.

Yeah, and I think his wife was pissed and that's why she didn't try to cover for him instead of saying, "I don't know where he is."

What a stupid thing to do. If he needed to get away, take a few days off, but tell people. He's made it look like he was trying to hide something almost. And then his staff made up the story about hiking.

And he chose not to be with his kids on Father's Day, too!

And Argentina? Argentina? So crazy.

Tim James

06-24-2009, 09:25 AM

I was just teasing about politics, tc. Of course as a libertarian I chuckle a bit at some of the politically-frenzied comments that if he's out of touch there could be an emergency and everyone in South Carolina might DIE, although if he's keeping tabs on things enough to hear about the tizzy he's caused and decided to come back early, I'd imagine he'd hear about a rogue hurricane forming in the Atlantic or woman on life support or whatever governors need to be on call for.

I'm more concerned what an asshole family man the guy is.

But on a serious pragmatic note, I wouldn't want him to be any kind of leader for the sentiment the DNC and others are trying to weakly stab at and are mostly missing -- just like if you're going to be a Navy SEAL, you don't really want to get behind a guy that is psychologically unstable enough that he has to run away for a week. Frequent and lengthy vacations are important for any kind of executive (though I could question a few recent government dopes that seemed to take a lot of them) in order to stay on the ball for the sake of their organization, but they ought to be managed properly.

jpinard

06-24-2009, 09:30 AM

I am neither married nor a father of two children. What I am wondering is this: how many of you married folks could just take off on a six-day trip out of the country--leaving your spouse with the kids and no knowledge of where you've gone--and not be in considerable amounts of deep shit? Bonus points for including that it's a holiday weekend.

As a single guy, I'm in dutch with my girl if I'm 10 minutes late picking her up. I can't even imagine this.

He went for hookers and trannys. The only way he could party and get off was to go somewhere where he could escape all potential photographers that would recognize him and troll the red light districts.

What an ASS to leave his wife and kids and not tell them where he's going - worse mislead them them into believing he's still in the states.

Angie Gallant

06-24-2009, 09:32 AM

ABC's Joe Goldman reports that a US embassy official in Buenos Aires tells him that the embassy had "absolutely no idea" that Sanford was in Argentina. The embassy official added that this comes "from out of left field -- it would be extremely odd that a US governor would not check in with the embassy."

And Mr. Stanford is saying he traveled to a landlocked city to drive the coastline in the middle of their winter. I really want this to be more interesting than just another sex scandal though.

Tim James

06-24-2009, 09:36 AM

I really want this to be more interesting than just another sex scandal though.Any preferences?

Since Max Mosley is in the news, I hope he and the governor got some more Nazi sado-masochist hookers.

Skipper

06-24-2009, 09:36 AM

Skipper

06-24-2009, 09:39 AM

He meets the press at 2 PM (http://www.counton2.com/cbd/news/state_regional/state_regional_govtpolitics/article/governor_sanford_to_speak_today_at_2pm/36592/) EST:

WCBD-TV 2 News
Published: June 24, 2009

Governor Sanford will be speaking to the media Wednesday at approx. 2:00 pm (EST) in his office. CountOn2.com will cover the event live [WATCH VIDEO PLAYER BELOW AT 2PM].

Governor Sanford’s representative, Joel Sawyer, tells News 2 that the governor will hold a press conference and meet with reporters to answer questions at 2:00PM (EST) Wednesday afternoon.

Awesomely funny excuses he SHOULD be using:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ian-gurvitz/where-i-was-by-governor-m_b_220156.html

Robert Sharp

06-24-2009, 09:42 AM

Mr_PeaCH

06-24-2009, 09:43 AM

This is just so bizarre on so many levels. I love how the staff he left behind went from 'we have no idea where he is' to issuing the statement that 'he's hiking the Appalachian Trail' and how that mushroomed on them when it was learned that many regard the summer solstice as Naked Hiking Day. NOW the truth appears to be that he took off to Argentina.

Could the staff letting it out that he was hiking have been a calculated move to cause even more uproar than there already was or was it just comic kismet that they used this as an excuse and then the Naked Hiking Day thing was brought up? Because now there seems to be some palpable relief that he was not in fact out hiking and presumed naked. Hightailing it to Argentina, without telling your wife or your staff or even the American Embassy there, seems like a better card to play. In Bizarro South Carolina anyways.

Tim James

06-24-2009, 09:45 AM

He meets the press at 2 PM (http://www.counton2.com/cbd/news/state_regional/state_regional_govtpolitics/article/governor_sanford_to_speak_today_at_2pm/36592/) EST:God, this just gets him more attention. Since Republicans will run any losing whore with name recognition or controversy, it probably improves his chances!

Better to just let him die an empty, lonely political career death.

triggercut

06-24-2009, 10:03 AM

If you're really looking to get away from it all and find some peace and quiet, what better place than Buenos Aires?

Mark Asher

06-24-2009, 10:12 AM

If he was lying about going to Argentina, that would be incredibly odd in itself. Who would come up with THAT lie? If he isn't lying, and he didn't check in as an official from another nation, that's also quite odd. Does this guy know he's a governor?

He got spotted at an airport so it was probably impossible for him to not admit to being in Argentina -- all the reporters would have to do is check the flight he was on. I'm assuming a reporter saw him exiting the plane.

It really does sound like a movie script in the making.

Mark Asher

06-24-2009, 10:13 AM

God, this just gets him more attention. Since Republicans will run any losing whore with name recognition or controversy, it probably improves his chances!

Better to just let him die an empty, lonely political career death.

Nah, I think he would be hammered repeatedly with this if he was running for President. It's irresponsible behavior.

Tim James

06-24-2009, 10:23 AM

Nah, I think he would be hammered repeatedly with this if he was running for President. It's irresponsible behavior.As implied in the quote, you have to realize that this doesn't stop politicians and Republicans. Stupidity and error is a tribal rallying cry.

Flowers

06-24-2009, 10:26 AM

I thought we wanted Republicans to shut up and fuck off?

It's like nothing pleases you people.

Saiban

06-24-2009, 10:30 AM

I thought we wanted Republicans to shut up and fuck off?

It's like nothing pleases you people.

I'd prefer they talk to Baby Jesus (they claim to have a rather close relationship with Him) and reverse the last 8 years or so. That'd be pretty cool.

salwon

06-24-2009, 10:31 AM

If you're really looking to get away from it all and find some peace and quiet, what better place than Buenos Aires?

It's all jungles and Amazon down there anyway. And isn't it always summer?

robsam

06-24-2009, 11:05 AM

Moved the press conference to 2:30 EST.

Maybe he needed to go for a walk at 2:00.

zengonzo

06-24-2009, 11:10 AM

They're just stalling .. This must be the part where Sandra Bullock pulls up in the convertible with a cache of weapons in the backseat and tells him they have to keep up the fight ..

And he .. gets .. back .. in ..

/Helicopters in the Sunset

Cubit

06-24-2009, 11:20 AM

here is a live video stream:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/24/sanford-press-conference_n_220263.html

Talisker

06-24-2009, 11:21 AM

Sounds like a fugue to me.

robsam

06-24-2009, 11:26 AM

This is starting out like he's done something very, very wrong to his family.

Matthew Gallant

06-24-2009, 11:27 AM

He stumbled over how long he's been married.

Cubit

06-24-2009, 11:28 AM

I can't watch at work, so please post any bombshells. :)

robsam

06-24-2009, 11:29 AM

Heh, I was watching the Fox feed, they lost it and you could hear the whole newsroom moan.

MSNBC still has it.

Kraaze

06-24-2009, 11:29 AM

I can't watch at work, so please post any bombshells. :)

The buildup is good. He's started out by apologizing to everyone he's ever known in any fashion and musing aloud on the nature of sin. I'm hoping for a good wide stance story here.

Matthew Gallant

06-24-2009, 11:29 AM

He's talking about god's law and sin and apologizing to people of faith.

Tim James

06-24-2009, 11:30 AM

He stumbled over how long he's been married.Angie is going to get you on this tonight.

robsam

06-24-2009, 11:30 AM

I've been unfaithful to my wife.

Kraaze

06-24-2009, 11:30 AM

Turns out he had an Argentinian girlfriend.

Matthew Gallant

06-24-2009, 11:31 AM

He went to Argentina to fuck around.

Angie Gallant

06-24-2009, 11:31 AM

Boo, just another sex scandal.

robsam

06-24-2009, 11:31 AM

And she is from Argentina!

Damn, you guys were closer on this than I thought you were.

Tim James

06-24-2009, 11:31 AM

God, another boring loser.
And she is from Argentina!Well that's good. At least we know he's not racist because he loves the hot Latinas.

Wait, what am I saying. Political mistresses are never hot.

Cubit

06-24-2009, 11:32 AM

Boo, just another sex scandal.

I'd say this is on another level though compared to screwing a campaign worker.

robsam

06-24-2009, 11:32 AM

Yep, I've seen this play too many times, off to ESPN for some soccer.

Kraaze

06-24-2009, 11:34 AM

I'd say this is on another level though compared to screwing a campaign worker.

Nah, to a jaded connoisseur of sex scandals, this one is quite run of the mill. He was doing it with someone of the opposite sex, his wife wasn't dying of cancer, etc etc. Very run of the mill.

jerri blank

06-24-2009, 11:49 AM

I lost the office pool, having placed my money on "goat." Bummer.

Eric P

06-24-2009, 11:51 AM

Wait, what am I saying. Political mistresses are never hot.

poor marilyn monroe

downgraded

Skipper

06-24-2009, 11:52 AM

Damnit I missed it, I was on a conference call for work but I could hear the people laughing from my cube. (I work in Charlotte, NC so a lot of the people here actually live in SC and have been following this closely.)

Tim James

06-24-2009, 11:57 AM

poor marilyn monroe

downgradedCome on, that was 40 years ago. Of course there are exceptions to my generalization.

Angie Gallant

06-24-2009, 11:59 AM

I love, and by love I mean hate, the way now everyone is all "Oh well he admitted he cheated on his wife everyone leave him alone." I don't care about why he took off for 6 days except for joke fodder, but the fact that he did take off for that long without turning power over to the Lt. Gov. is bad. He rightly deserves to be raked over the coals for it.

Linoleum

06-24-2009, 12:02 PM

I admit to being mildly curious as to how the governor of South Carolina acquired a girlfriend who lives in Argentina.

Phil_Stein

06-24-2009, 12:02 PM

...everyone is all "Oh well he admitted he cheated on his wife everyone leave him alone."

"everyone" is saying that? He announced this thing about an hour ago and "everyone" is saying that? I admit I don't have the news channels turned on, but I question whether your assessment matches reality.

Skipper

06-24-2009, 12:03 PM

Angie Gallant

06-24-2009, 12:03 PM

Yeah, hyperbole. But they are repeating this line over and over on MSNBC, and I figure if the leftest of the networks are doing it then the others probably are too.

Tim James

06-24-2009, 12:04 PM

Andrew Mayer

06-24-2009, 12:06 PM

The GOP gets more awesome every day.

Angie Gallant

06-24-2009, 12:06 PM

He said his wife already found out 5 months ago. It sounds to me, if we take his presser at face value, that taking the stimulus money wounded him in a way that only sweet, extra-marital loving could repair and he had to make the trip now or lose his mind.

Jag

06-24-2009, 12:07 PM

He must have a kid down there or something. How hard up do you have to be to skip Father's Day and make it blatantly obvious to your wife what's going on, unless they were already having problems and he just didn't care anymore.

The affair was discovered five months ago, Sanford said.

Something tells me she didn't want dad in the house of Father's Day so he went for some Argentine poon.

When do we start taking bets on how much she makes off Playboy for the photo shoot?

Angie Gallant

06-24-2009, 12:08 PM

If I were his wife, when the press called I wouldn't have said he was away writing something, I would have told him that he was off fucking his Argentinaian whore.

Linoleum

06-24-2009, 12:10 PM

The GOP gets more awesome every day.

Admit it, you're hoping his Argentinian girlfriend was the child of a retired Nazi German expatriate!

Matthew Gallant

06-24-2009, 12:12 PM

I enjoyed the characterization by Wonkette of Argentina as a "fancy Mexico".

Skipper

06-24-2009, 12:13 PM

Something tells me she didn't want dad in the house of Father's Day so he went for some Argentine poon.

When do we start taking bets on how much she makes off Playboy for the photo shoot?

I don't think we will be impressed. This isn't the governor of New York we're talking about here. Then again, she is in Argentina. Here's hoping it was worth it for the big guy.

jpinard

06-24-2009, 12:13 PM

What f*ing hypocrites these people are.

robsam

06-24-2009, 12:13 PM

If I were his wife, when the press called I wouldn't have said he was away writing something, I would have told him that he was off fucking his Argentinaian whore.

Matthew better never screw around on Angie.

extarbags

06-24-2009, 12:14 PM

Nah, to a jaded connoisseur of sex scandals, this one is quite run of the mill. He was doing it with someone of the opposite sex, his wife wasn't dying of cancer, etc etc. Very run of the mill.

We'll see. It strikes me as mighty suspicious that a professional politician emerges from his trip and immediately blurts out "I was having a sex affair, nothing more to see here."

zengonzo

06-24-2009, 12:15 PM

If I were his wife, when the press called I wouldn't have said he was away writing something, I would have told him that he was off fucking his Argentinaian whore.

You'd just come off as a spurned wretch and everyone would just privately smirk at your misfortune.

Instead, I'd recommend making up some seriously damaging shit, and passing it off innocuously.

CLWheeljack

06-24-2009, 12:16 PM

Matthew better never screw around on Angie.

I'd worry more about this:

I'd consider disappearing to another country for 6 days with no warning and no contact to be grounds for justifiable homicide personally.

Cubit

06-24-2009, 12:19 PM

The recent quotes I'm reading have him saying it was with a "friend" in Argentina. Has he said specifically it was a female?

Kraaze

06-24-2009, 12:27 PM

Matthew better never screw around on Angie.

Some people get all wound up over the whole monogamy thing. I think they just lack trust in their partner.

Angie Gallant

06-24-2009, 12:27 PM

http://www.truemeaningoflife.com/images/fnc-20090624-sanford.jpg

Oh Fox.

Tim James

06-24-2009, 12:29 PM

We'll see. It strikes me as mighty suspicious that a professional politician emerges from his trip and immediately blurts out "I was having a sex affair, nothing more to see here."I don't know, if I came back from Argentina tanned and spent I'd be pretty laid back about it too.

Robert Sharp

06-24-2009, 12:31 PM

Can they do that? Just boot him into the other party because of this? I had no idea Fox had that kind of power. They should do it more often. It's an excellent political tool.

As for the affair what a let down. He must really like this woman though. If he just wanted to have an affair there are easier ways than flying to Argentina. I think it's all a political ploy to set up his Presidential run. This is perfectly timed to allow a window of remorse and rebirth, just in time for the campaign!

" I was once a sinner, as you all know. Today, I am a changed man, and I bring the promise of change to America!"

zengonzo

06-24-2009, 12:32 PM

Oh Fox.

It never fucking ends.

robsam

06-24-2009, 12:33 PM

Hahahaha, nice catch Angie. I actually watched their feed until they lost it and didn't notice that. Or has it been shopped?

Rimbo

06-24-2009, 12:37 PM

I'd consider disappearing to another country for 6 days with no warning and no contact to be grounds for justifiable homicide personally.

Hmmm, I just received a PM from Matthew and uh... anyone want a free ticket to Warsaw?

forgeforsaken

06-24-2009, 12:37 PM

Can they do that? Just boot him into the other party because of this? I had no idea Fox had that kind of power. They should do it more often. It's an excellent political tool.

They do this way too often for it to be accidental, plus I don't think they ever screw it up the other way. Pretty much if an R has bad news Fox will mislabel him as a D.

Andrew Mayer

06-24-2009, 12:43 PM

They do this way too often for it to be accidental, plus I don't think they ever screw it up the other way. Pretty much if an R has bad news Fox will mislabel him as a D.

There aren't quotes big enough to put around the word "mislabel" in the sentence.

jerri blank

06-24-2009, 12:43 PM

Hahahaha, nice catch Angie. I actually watched their feed until they lost it and didn't notice that. Or has it been shopped?

It hasn't been shopped, and it's not the first time they've done that.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v490/gearhead2u/fox-lies-stevens.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v490/gearhead2u/fox-lies-Foley2.jpg

Phil_Stein

06-24-2009, 12:45 PM

They do this way too often for it to be accidental[snip]

You folks need to be posting in the conspiracy thread(s).

:)

alexlitel

06-24-2009, 12:48 PM

I admit to being mildly curious as to how the governor of South Carolina acquired a girlfriend who lives in Argentina.He was inspired by Vicky Christy Barcelona.

extarbags

06-24-2009, 12:55 PM

Can they do that? Just boot him into the other party because of this? I had no idea Fox had that kind of power. They should do it more often. It's an excellent political tool.

Actually they do it constantly.

Lum

06-24-2009, 01:05 PM

I admit to being mildly curious as to how the governor of South Carolina acquired a girlfriend who lives in Argentina.

My guess is that they met in Second Life.

Because admit it, it'd be AWESOME.

Kalle

06-24-2009, 01:09 PM

You folks need to be posting in the conspiracy thread(s).

:)

Cute smiley face aside, you been shown three separate examples of this happening in this very thread. What the hell does it take to make you start thinking it's not a mistake?

Matt Perkins

06-24-2009, 01:10 PM

You folks need to be posting in the conspiracy thread(s).

:)
Poor timing on your conspiracy call sir. Unless you were going for great comedic timing, then you're aces.

Eric P

06-24-2009, 01:11 PM

He was inspired by Vicky Christy Barcelona.

i think admitting to watching a woody allen film would destroy his career moreso than an affair

bago

06-24-2009, 01:11 PM

First rumors (http://www.shortsshortsshorts.com/?p=4074) about mistress identity.

Phil_Stein

06-24-2009, 01:13 PM

Cute smiley face aside, you been shown three separate examples of this happening in this very thread. What the hell does it take to make you start thinking it's not a mistake?

Err, it would take an analysis of all the times that Fox (or whoever your accusing) made an error of this sort.

Yeah, that would be extremely time consuming, and I doubt anyone has done it. So, if it makes you happy, go ahead and accept the anecdotal evidence of 3 errors over the course of years of broadcasting as evidence that Fox consistently and intentionally attempts to pull a transparent deception.

bago

06-24-2009, 01:17 PM

3 errors in one year, all on Fox. Look at the pictures.

Blackadar

06-24-2009, 01:20 PM

3 errors in one year, all on Fox. Look at the pictures.

It doesn't matter...you can't convince some people the sky is blue. Some people voluntarily choose to live their lives with their heads buried in the sand or up their ass. I'm just thankful when one willingly comes forward and lets us know that so we can take his/her future posts with the consideration they deserve (i.e., toilet paper).

Skipper

06-24-2009, 01:22 PM

Oh it's getting better:

Gov. Mark Sanford admitted his Argentinian affair today, and within an hour, Brian Stroup noted that Sanford has been to Argentina on the taxpayers’ dime. From the Augusta Chronicle:

Gov. Mark Sanford ranks in the top 50 [of a list of South Carolina state employees' travel expenses] based on the total amount he spent on trips paid by his office and those paid by the state Commerce Department. Mr. Sanford has traveled to China, Argentina and Brazil through the Commerce Department, which has travel reports showing taxpayers covering $21,488 for those trips.

Mr. Sanford also spent $1,976 in travel through his office.

The Commerce-paid trips benefit the state, Sanford spokesman Joel Sawyer said. For instance, in October, FITESA, a Brazilian fabrics maker, announced it would spend $120 million on a Laurens County facility and create 80 jobs.

bago

06-24-2009, 01:26 PM

And better (http://thinkprogress.org/2009/06/24/sanford-affair/)...

“The bottom line, though, is I am sure there will be a lot of legalistic explanations pointing out that the president lied under oath. His situation was not under oath. The bottom line, though, is he still lied. He lied under a different oath, and that is the oath to his wife. So it’s got to be taken very, very seriously.” [Sanford on Livingston, CNN, 12/18/98]

“We ought to ask questions…rather than circle the wagons for one of our tribe.” [Sanford on how the GOP reacts to affairs, New York Post, 12/20/98]

“I think it would be much better for the country and for him personally (to resign). I come from the business side. If you had a chairman or president in the business world facing these allegations, he’d be gone.” [Sanford on Clinton, The Post and Courier, 9/12/98]

“The issue of lying is probably the biggest harm, if you will, to the system of Democratic government, representatives government, because it undermines trust. And if you undermine trust in our system, you undermine everything.” [Sanford on Clinton, CNN, 2/16/99]

Sanford has also been an opponent of same-sex marriage, saying in 2004, “As Jenny and I are the parents of four little boys, we’ve always taught our kids that marriage was something between a man and a woman.” [The Post and Courier, 2/11/04]

Skipper

06-24-2009, 01:33 PM

Wow bago, nice find. Someone already mentioned it but this is like a damned movie script. We're just missing the hero who was right all along and showed us all.

Flowers

06-24-2009, 01:33 PM

Everyone deserves to get fucked the way they like, but those people who act like not everyone deserves to get fucked, those people deserve to get caught.

By the way, in his press conference, he specifically did not refer to his friend as female. I'm not saying he had cock up his butt while he was in Argentina, I'm just saying, if I was going to get fucked in the ass by an oily stud, it would be in Argentina.

Think about it.

You're totally straight. You've got this buddy, you play squash together, you get a little sweaty, you're at the health club, you hit the showers.

You see your friend's butt.

If you continue to stare, turn to page 87. (Oh, you make love right there and get arrested.)
If you steal only a glance and just can't get him out of your mind, keep reading.

So there you are, eating a philly cheesesteak sandwich. Your wife is asking you if you are going to eat the rest of your fries, because your cholesterol is high and...you drift off. You like hanging out with your friend. He never talks about cholesterol. Oh, and now you remember, you saw his butt last week. You're not gay, you're just glad his butt wasn't gross.

Yeah, see, not all guy's butts are gross.

You wake up. It's Tuesday. Six in the morning, the phone is ringing. Your friend is calling you. He wants to hang out. Why is he calling this early? Oh yeah, you go jogging together. You were just having a sex dream. It wasn't about him, though. Ok, it was about him. You don't think you should hang out with him, because you are a famous politician with an erection. But that's not fair, he's got tickets to the gallery opening!

Are you really going to refuse to be someone's friend, just because their sexy? It's not his fault he's got shoulders like Atlas on a soccer player's body. But he better not try to kiss you.

So you go with your friend to the gallery opening. You're having a good time. You can drink as many wine coolers as you want, because your hotel room is just across the street. Wait a second, why did you book a hotel room when you live in town? Silly you. Well, the room is paid for, you'd be a fool not to use it.

I don't like to write erotic fiction, on account of the fact that I am not in the business of arousing middle aged women, yet. But if I was, this is the place in the story where I would describe two men going at it. So you can just imagine the rest of the encounter. Oh yeah, in my story, neither one of them is a bear. But in really life, the other guy might totally be a bear.

quatoria

06-24-2009, 01:33 PM

Hey, to be fair, he did flat out admit he was off getting some Argentinian strange.

zengonzo

06-24-2009, 01:34 PM

Gov. Mark Sanford ranks in the top 50 [of a list of South Carolina state employees' travel expenses]

That might be more impressive outside of a list of South Carolina state employees. But fifty inside that list seems pretty logical. Wouldn't the top state executive be expected to have the highest travel budget?

The real comparison ought to be drawn between other state governors.

Skipper

06-24-2009, 01:37 PM

That might be more impressive outside of a list of South Carolina state employees. But fifty inside that list seems pretty logical. Wouldn't the top state executive be expected to have the highest travel budget?

The real comparison ought to be drawn between other state governors.

I agree with that statement. I think more notable is that trips were paid for that involved China, Argentina, and Brazil. It's possible that the State of South Carolina paid for a trip for a booty call. Possible. I'm assuming they are already investigating that.

zengonzo

06-24-2009, 01:39 PM

The Commerce-ptaid trips benefit the state, Sanford spokesman Joel Sawyer said. For instance, in October, FITESA, a Brazilian fabrics maker, announced it would spend $120 million on a Laurens County facility and create 80 jobs.

Like who he had to fuck to get those big contracts?

jerri blank

06-24-2009, 01:39 PM

By the way, in his press conference, he specifically did not refer to his friend as female.

Yeah, he did. Believe me, I was listening. "I hurt HER" was the first time I heard a gender pronoun, and he wasn't referring to his wife.

Tim James

06-24-2009, 01:41 PM

He can't resign. The transition would be too difficult and damaging to the great state of South Carolina.

Kalle

06-24-2009, 01:48 PM

Err, it would take an analysis of all the times that Fox (or whoever your accusing) made an error of this sort.

No, it only takes some basic deduction. Once can be explained as a mistake. Twice is possibly a mistake. Three times in a short time span is when it's reasonable to suspect a systemic error or deliberate intent.

And if you add to that the established fact that Fox is generally supportive of the Republican party then that just tips the scales. Yes, it's possible we're dealing with three separate, unintentional mistakes, but Occam's razor says that it's less likely than the alternative. It's an intentional change that clearly benefits the people and policies Fox supports.

Mark Asher

06-24-2009, 01:51 PM

Even if you give Fox the benefit of the doubt, it's very sloppy reporting. That's as bad as misspelling someone's name.

Anaxagoras

06-24-2009, 01:52 PM

And Mr. Stanford is saying he traveled to a landlocked city to drive the coastline in the middle of their winter. I really want this to be more interesting than just another sex scandal though.

Buenos Aires isn't landlocked; it borders the Rio de la Plata, which is really a giant bay that opens into the Atlantic. (Further inland it's a rio)

Also, if you're going to visit Buenos Aires, their winter is the time to do it. During summer the place is hot, muggy, and miserable.

Edit - I missed THREE PAGES of responses? Really?
Cocaine's a helluva drug.

Flowers

06-24-2009, 01:54 PM

Yeah, he did. Believe me, I was listening. "I hurt HER" was the first time I heard a gender pronoun, and he wasn't referring to his wife.

Well then he's very progressive, because most people insist on referring to trannies by their birth gender. I'm just saying, it's less weird to disappear with an Argentinian Tranny than it is to disappear with an Argentinian woman. Occam's Razor operates differently when applied to politician sex.

bago

06-24-2009, 01:55 PM

Follow up written statement (http://www.midlandsconnect.com/news/news_story.aspx?id=317012).

No mention of resigning from the government for spending government money to run off and get laid.

McClatchey seems to have found her (http://www.thestate.com/sanford/story/839350.html).

Jason McCullough

06-24-2009, 01:56 PM

Bahahahhahahha. Jesus christ, Republicans, can't you keep it in your pants?

AndrewM

06-24-2009, 01:59 PM

No, it only takes some basic deduction. Once can be explained as a mistake. Twice is possibly a mistake. Three times in a short time span is when it's reasonable to suspect a systemic error or deliberate intent.

Depends on whether there are any errors with labeling Democrats as Republicans, or on whether there are any errors with labeling Republicans who aren't embroiled in scandals as Democrats. What is the overall error rate of Fox labeling politicians? What is the rate for Republicans embroiled in scandals? You have to be careful about these things or you end up looking like those conservatives who insist that the media is biased against them because Lexus Nexus searches turn up more results for "right wing" than "left wing".

Also, back on topic, this scandal is pretty funny. Not for the affair part, which as was said is very run of the mill. But the guy just ran away for 5 days without telling anybody where he'd gone! Crazy. He must have really been at a breaking point.

Aeroplane

06-24-2009, 02:02 PM

McClatchey seems to have found her (http://www.thestate.com/sanford/story/839350.html).

Love the phrasing on the photo caption:

The alleged woman who South Carolina Governor Mark Sanford had an affair with...

priceless

Matthew Gallant

06-24-2009, 02:03 PM

During summer the place is hot, muggy, and miserable.
That's when Klendathu launches the meteors, too.

Phil_Stein

06-24-2009, 02:03 PM

3 errors in one year, all on Fox. Look at the pictures.

It could be 3 errors in one week*.

What matters is not the absolute number of errors, by itself, but rather the error rate, and more specifically the error rate for errors favorable to Democrats vs. favorable to Republicans.

I am not saying what you suggest is impossible (though I consider it pretty unlikely that there are frequent, significant, ongoing intentional errors of this sort by Fox disproportionately targeting Dems), but rather, that your evidence isn't compelling, without the proper context.

*Notably though, at least one picture appears to be from a local channel that's a Fox affiliate. Does the proposed conspiracy encompass all local Fox affiliates? Enquiring minds want to know...

Further, how do you know that the Foley picture was from the last year?

Tankero

06-24-2009, 02:09 PM

That's when Klendathu launches the meteors, too.

EVERYONE IS DOING THEIR PART!

ARE YOU?

Flowers

06-24-2009, 02:10 PM

You're wasting our time Phil. The (D)smack is just something that Fox does. It's on purpose and it's cheeky.

Phil_Stein

06-24-2009, 02:12 PM

Why do you reach that conclusion, Flowers?

bago

06-24-2009, 02:20 PM

I wonder (http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/d5d1558548/fox-news-equates-obama-and-osama-from-that-happened).

Rimbo

06-24-2009, 02:22 PM

Love the phrasing on the photo caption:

priceless

So they're certain he had an affair with someone who is only "allegedly" a woman?

Man, I knew that about the Brazilian porn... didn't know that also applied to Argentinian mistresses.

Tim James

06-24-2009, 02:35 PM

It's not clear yet that he used government money for the trips, though I wouldn't put it past him. Probably just explains the (again, boring) way he met this woman while on business in a foreign land.

I was hoping Facebook, myself.

Blackadar

06-24-2009, 02:39 PM

Why do you reach that conclusion, Flowers?

How could you logically not reach that conclusion?

If I walk up and hit you in the face and say was an accident,

then I hit you again, apologize and say it was an accident,

then I hit you again and say it was an accident,

Are you still going to believe it was an accident? If so, let me know. I have some investment opportunities for you. It involves oceanfront property in Iowa.

In other words, you're being purposely obtuse and intellectually dishonest. You might as well take the position that the Earth is flat.

Joel

06-24-2009, 02:43 PM

Emails between lovers: http://www.thestate.com/sanford/story/839350.html

Phil_Stein

06-24-2009, 02:47 PM

Blackadar - you've presented a terrible analogy, and if you're too obtuse to see it, then perhaps you are in the business of unsuccessfully trying to sell ocean front property in Iowa.

An image was shown with a minor mistake from Fox today. Some suggest it is essentially a conspiracy - that a national news channel intentionally makes errors in easily verifiable facts, for reasons unclear to me. (Yes, Fox may be partisan, but thinking that this mislabel is somehow going to convince people that Sanford was a Democrat or that only Democrats do stupid stuff is, well, stupid.)

So, as backup evidence, we get an image from a local Fox affiliate, and one other image apparently from Fox making the same mistake at some point in the last 3 years or so.

Networks make mistakes. But ~2 mistakes of the same sort over the last ~3 years is hardly a pattern, if we don't have any idea of the overall number of mistakes or the number of mistakes going the other way.

I hope you don't consistently accept such weak evidence on all matters in life.

Kraaze

06-24-2009, 02:48 PM

How could you logically not reach that conclusion?

If I walk up and hit you in the face and say was an accident,

then I hit you again, apologize and say it was an accident,

then I hit you again and say it was an accident,

Are you still going to believe it was an accident?

Depends on the context, are you a spaztard prone to randomly hitting things? If you are, then accident is plausible. If you aren't, then malice seems the most likely explanation now doesnt it?

What Phil is correctly pointing out is that nobody has established the context for the accusations against Fox news. If Fox news ONLY fucks up by mis-labeling Rs as Ds when there's a scandal involving Rs then that's suspicious. If Fox news fucks this kind of thing up all the time because they employ idiotic monkeys to work in the studio, then it's just a routine thing.

So anyone who wants to rant about Fox news needs merely to demonstate that they only make this type of mistake when there's a scandal involving an R afoot.

In other words, you're being purposely obtuse and intellectually dishonest. You might as well take the position that the Earth is flat.

I'd go easy on that kind of talk, you really aren't in Phil's league kid.

Mark Asher

06-24-2009, 02:52 PM

Apparently he's a breast man:

You have a particular grace and calm that I adore. You have a level of sophistication that so fitting with your beauty. I could digress and say that you have the ability to give magnificent gentle kisses, or that I love your tan lines or that I love the curve of your hips, the erotic beauty of you holding yourself (or two magnificent parts of yourself) in the faded glow of the night’s light - but hey, that would be going into sexual details ...

That's not going to do his marriage any good.

Cubit

06-24-2009, 02:54 PM

oh dear me. i am all atwitter.

bago

06-24-2009, 02:57 PM

But ~2 mistakes of the same sort over the last ~3 years is hardly a pattern

I like how 3 mistakes in 1 year you have seen with your own eyes becomes ~2 mistakes in ~3 years. That's some strong denial you're smoking.

idrisz

06-24-2009, 02:57 PM

http://www.bradblog.com/Images/FoxCavuto_JohnMcCainDEM_020608.jpg

also arlen specter was also shown

http://static.crooksandliars.com/files/uploads/2007/07/specter-democrat-hume.jpg

this in 2007.

Talisker

06-24-2009, 02:59 PM

Those are at least reasonably well-written mushy notes. Just imagine if it was Chuck Grassley.

Phil_Stein

06-24-2009, 03:00 PM

I like how 3 mistakes in 1 year you have seen with your own eyes becomes ~2 mistakes in ~3 years. That's some strong denial you're smoking.

You haven't in fact, addressed the issues that I raised - that one of the alleged mistakes appears to have been made by a local affiliate, and that the other could have reasonably occurred anytime in the last 3 years or so.

Or maybe you did, and I missed it. Either way, if you've got a strong case, make it.

Jason McCullough

06-24-2009, 03:02 PM

Ye gods the terrible email.

Either way, if you've got a strong case, make it.

I cannot recall a single other report of another network misidentifying the party of a scandal-plagued federal office holder.

Marged

06-24-2009, 03:04 PM

I went out and ran the excavator with lights until the sun came up. To me, and I suspect no one else on earth, there is something wonderful about listening to country music playing in the cab, air conditioner running, the hum of a huge diesel engine in the back ground, the tranquillity that comes with being in a virtual wilderness of trees and marsh, the day breaking and vibrant pink coming alive in the morning clouds - and getting to build something with each scoop of dirt.

What, does he dig around with an excavator for fun? Is this some Southern recreational thing that I have been heretofore ignorant?

Mordrak

06-24-2009, 03:06 PM

It sounds like he has a farm in Columbia or something and he's talking about enjoying that days labor.

zengonzo

06-24-2009, 03:10 PM

Tranquility of wilderness = diesel engine, country music and air conditioning.

Ahh, nature.

Matthew Gallant

06-24-2009, 03:10 PM

Back to Columbia for Tuesday and then on Wednesday, as I think I had told you, taking the family to China, Tibet, Nepal, India, Thailand and then back through Hong Kong on world wind tour.
World wind tour.

Phil_Stein

06-24-2009, 03:10 PM

I cannot recall a single other report of another network misidentifying the party of a scandal-plagued federal office holder.

Perhaps you wouldn't even recall these reports if you didn't read a generally partisan P&R forum that loves to post slip-ups, big and small, of individuals and entities associated with the right.

It is certainly possible that Fox messes this kind of thing up more than CNN or MSNBC - I don't really know. But the fact that someone here in QT3 made a stink out of a Fox error is hardly compelling, because a similar error on MSNBC is unlikely to have even bubbled up here on QT3.

Full disclosure - IIRC, I saw one or more times at some point where I was watching Fox and they abbreviated Barack Obama's name as BHO in their news scroll, at a time when pumping up the "Hussein" part of his name was something of a cause among some on the right. It struck me as a bit odd/off. That's the only thing that comes to mind along these lines though. That said, I don't spend a whole lot of time glued to Fox or CNN or MSNBC. (I do occasionally watch all of them, but more so when something is going on, like the stuff in Iran of late.)

====

Edit - Actually, I want to bang on this a little more...

Be careful about how you draw broad conclusions about people/entities/groups/etc, especially based on anecdotal evidence.

If you get most of your news and links from QT3 P&R, or TPM, or DailyKos, you will perhaps conclude that Republicans are scandal plagued, hypocritical buffoons. Dem scandals are rare - only the most spectacular flameouts like Blogojevich and Spitzer and Edwards will bubble up.

If you get most of your news and links from Free Republic, The Corner, and similar sources you will perhaps conclude that Democrats are scandal plagued, hypocritical buffoons. Republican scandals are rare - only the most spectacular flameouts like Sanford and Ensign and Craig will bubble up.

I know this sounds thunderingly obvious. And yet, I think too many people are willing to accept primarily heavily filtered news that reconfirms their general world outlook.

Democrats are human. Republicans are human. Individuals on both sides make plenty of mistakes, big and small. FWIW, news providers on both sides make plenty of mistakes, big and small. That doesn't mean every news provider is equally trustworthy - far from it. Rather, if you want to judge a news provider, do so by comparing the totality of its news to other sources, not just minor errors that bubble up through the partisan ranks on the other side. </ObviousMode>

Tim James

06-24-2009, 03:11 PM

Jesus Christ, I'm not going to type love letters like that in my late 40s, am I?

alexlitel

06-24-2009, 03:15 PM

It turns out he was just doing research for his Great American Novel, awww, how cute!

Tracy Baker

06-24-2009, 03:17 PM

What, does he dig around with an excavator for fun? Is this some Southern recreational thing that I have been heretofore ignorant?

Lots of well-to-do people have hobby farms or whatnot and like to play with tractors and excavators so they can pretend to be salt-of-the-earth poor people before heading back to their mansions and/or yachts.

Mr_PeaCH

06-24-2009, 03:18 PM

What sort of man boasts about taking his wife and children on a "world wind" tour to his mistress? I do like how he tapped into the 'boom-chicka-wa-wah' side in article two however.

Mark Asher

06-24-2009, 03:19 PM

Tranquility of wilderness = diesel engine, country music and air conditioning.

Ahh, nature.

Ha ha. And digging up nature too.

Mordrak

06-24-2009, 03:20 PM

I think it's more about displaying his world traveling, sophisticated self to counterbalance his pastoral self.

Mordrak

06-24-2009, 03:23 PM

Ha ha. And digging up nature too.

People romanticize the farm life, even in modern trappings. Haha, those tribal peoples sure stuck it to nature with their sticks and rudimentary tools! What rubes! You guys are hung up on a modern definition of environmentalism.

Skipper

06-24-2009, 03:25 PM

Jesus Christ, I'm not going to type love letters like that in my late 40s, am I?

It's quite possible. I'm already in my 40's so I'm trying to find where I can book a "world wind tour" right now. I also wonder if I claim I'm from South Carolina if the travel agent will offer me a discount.

Ben Sones

06-24-2009, 03:27 PM

Phil, I appreciate your level-headedness, but do you really want to give the benefit of the doubt to the news network that has been caught doing shit like this:

http://cloudfront.mediamatters.org/static/images/item/fox-20080702-steinberg.jpg

At some point, Fox's "innocent errors" begin to strain credulity. It seems like the misattribution one happens every time there's a Republican scandal.

Phil_Stein

06-24-2009, 03:36 PM

Ben - I'd like to know the story behind it - that's a little more significant than just flipping a letter in a graphic. It's possible they got their photo from a bad, biased source and didn't catch it. It's possible that a technician (at Fox) was trying to be cute or partisan and did it intentionally. It's possible, that somebody more senior at Fox asked for this.

Then again, the label "Attack Dog", suggests that this might have been an attempt at humor, in the sense that a late night comedy show might distort pictures for comedy value. If so, it's in poor taste IMO, because the graphic is not distorted enough that its obvious to the viewer that it IS distorted, and because that's probably not where a national news network should be going anyways. I guess I'd want to see it in context.

Tim James

06-24-2009, 03:37 PM

At some point, Fox's "innocent errors" begin to strain credulity. It seems like the misattribution one happens every time there's a Republican scandal.60% of the time it happens every time.

XtienMurawski

06-24-2009, 03:38 PM

Or maybe they're just stupid (http://mediamatters.org/blog/200903230005).

http://cloudfront.mediamatters.org/static/images/countyfair/posts/brown-20090323.jpg

We link. You decide.

-xtien

jerri blank

06-24-2009, 03:39 PM

What, does he dig around with an excavator for fun? Is this some Southern recreational thing that I have been heretofore ignorant?

Those of us who can't afford that kind of heavy machinery have to be content with shooting road signs.

noun

06-24-2009, 03:40 PM

Well, it's either complete incompetence or intentional deceit. Which is it Phil?

Mordrak

06-24-2009, 03:51 PM

Ben - I'd like to know the story behind it - that's a little more significant than just flipping a letter in a graphic. It's possible they got their photo from a bad, biased source and didn't catch it. It's possible that a technician (at Fox) was trying to be cute or partisan and did it intentionally. It's possible, that somebody more senior at Fox asked for this.

Well, watch the documentary Outfoxed then. They interview former employees that talk about the corporate culture of Fox News. The middle option seems likely, since they get pats on the back from producers/upper management for working creative digs in against Democrats.

As for distortion, yes it's real. I've linked to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1XkivA1W3o) several times and no one ever really responds. It gives the NPR and FOX version of the Monica Goodling hearing and totally misrepresents the basis for the hearing.

Tim James

06-24-2009, 04:08 PM

As for distortion, yes it's real. I've linked to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1XkivA1W3o) several times and no one ever really responds.I got about 15 seconds into that video and had to quit. The guy sounds like a tool I would enjoy punching in the face (figuratively, on his inevitable blog).

Mordrak

06-24-2009, 04:11 PM

He gives you complete, unedited newscasts about the events to compare.

Tim James

06-24-2009, 04:12 PM

He gives you complete, unedited newscasts about the events to compare. Your loss.No kidding, the premise actually sounded interesting even given that I haven't listened to a newscast in years.

Mordrak

06-24-2009, 04:14 PM

Well, skip to 40 seconds in, that's when the Fox News report starts. Then when that's done, skip to 4:05 for the NPR clip. Compare and tell me which do you think gave you a more complete and accurate version of the hearing.

Edit: Not only that, which had the clearest narrative driven by party association?

Jason McCullough

06-24-2009, 04:18 PM

It is certainly possible that Fox messes this kind of thing up more than CNN or MSNBC - I don't really know. But the fact that someone here in QT3 made a stink out of a Fox error is hardly compelling, because a similar error on MSNBC is unlikely to have even bubbled up here on QT3.

Reminder that time you thought we were being terrible people for ascribing bad faith and stupidity to McCain for "suspending his campaign" to deal with the financial crisis? When was the last time you gave someone on the left so much of a benefit of a doubt that it made your face hurt?

Phil_Stein

06-24-2009, 04:23 PM

Jason, I give folks on both the Left and the Right quite a bit of benefit of the doubt. i.e. I try to avoid drawing firm conclusions from fragmentary evidence. That said, the issue doesn't come up on the Left too much around here, because folks on QT3 P&R don't generally throw around too many wild, thinly supported accusations against those on the Left.

Do you see me (or really, much of anybody) commonly reposting some nonsense someone's trying to stir up at Free Republic over here (other than the occasional links someone here makes for mockery purposes)?

Actually, it's pretty much in line with the last sentence in my post that you quote. Minor errors of the Left don't bubble up much here on QT3 P&R. (I'm not saying they NEVER do, but it's relatively rare for them to get much focus here.)

Skipper

06-24-2009, 04:27 PM

Sound like his wife is letting him slide ... for now (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/06/24/sanfords-wife-hes-earned-a-second-chance/#more-57649).

...
I believe wholeheartedly in the sanctity, dignity and importance of the institution of marriage. I believe that has been consistently reflected in my actions. When I found out about my husband's infidelity I worked immediately to first seek reconciliation through forgiveness, and then to work diligently to repair our marriage. We reached a point where I felt it was important to look my sons in the eyes and maintain my dignity, self-respect, and my basic sense of right and wrong. I therefore asked my husband to leave two weeks ago.

This trial separation was agreed to with the goal of ultimately strengthening our marriage. During this short separation it was agreed that Mark would not contact us. I kept this separation quiet out of respect of his public office and reputation, and in hopes of keeping our children from just this type of public exposure. Because of this separation, I did not know where he was in the past week.

I believe enduring love is primarily a commitment and an act of will, and for a marriage to be successful, that commitment must be reciprocal. I believe Mark has earned a chance to resurrect our marriage.

EDIT: Perhaps she knew he was going there? Maybe his plan was to end it? Five or six days sounds like an awfully long time to do that.

Phil_Stein

06-24-2009, 04:31 PM

I wouldn't characterize it as letting him slide, but rather, providing at least an opportunity for healing. That's not such a terrible thing.

forgeforsaken

06-24-2009, 04:41 PM

It is certainly possible that Fox messes this kind of thing up more than CNN or MSNBC - I don't really know.

It's happened on the other stations on occasion, but the frequency definitely seems much much higher on Fox. The other factor is that Fox tends to make the mistake when it's a negative story about a republican, or is a republican criticizing another republican. They also only seem to make the mistake in one direction, for instance I don't know of a single instance of them identifying a scandal ridden democrat as an R.

Skipper

06-24-2009, 04:42 PM

I wouldn't characterize it as letting him slide, but rather, providing at least an opportunity for healing. That's not such a terrible thing.

You're right, it would not be a terrible thing. However, I feel a lot that I want the woman in these things (it always seems to be the man cheating in politics) to be stronger. To say, "he was a cheating ass and our marriage is over." It extends beyond cheating though, and beyond politics. It's hoping for someone with obvious power in her life, finances and relationship to stand up and not take it.

Sure, it's not a terrible thing to work out differences. If more couples would do that, well then there would be far less divorces. But you can't blame me for wanting to hear just one of these stories to end with the cheater being humiliated and not getting a second chance. Just one story that perhaps would give the other idiots pause and think, "wow, what if my wife goes off like she did. Maybe I can keep it in my pants and avoid that embarrassment."

Again, you're right. I was hoping for more this time though, thus it came out as though she was letting me down with her statement. She should be doing what's right for her family, regardless of how it might seem to us.

Phil_Stein

06-24-2009, 04:50 PM

Skipper, it certainly DOES happen that women (including some public ones) who cheated on divorce their husbands. I think a lot depends on context, which, in general, we in the outside world don't know (and probably shouldn't, much of the time anyways).

A twenty year marriage, with four sons, is not something to be trivially discarded, even when the husband acts like a fool.

Yes, it's more exciting to watch a train wreck that is more spectacular - that's human nature, I guess.

Mark Asher

06-24-2009, 04:56 PM

Hey, his wife told him to get out. She's not weak. She's just not ready to give up on the marriage. Once kids are involved, it's hard to just walk away.

The flip side is it's hard to rebuild things. This wasn't Sanford just getting some because he wanted something on the side. It sounds as if he had real feelings for this woman. That will be hard to deal with.

Jason McCullough

06-24-2009, 05:17 PM

Jason, I give folks on both the Left and the Right quite a bit of benefit of the doubt. i.e. I try to avoid drawing firm conclusions from fragmentary evidence. That said, the issue doesn't come up on the Left too much around here, because folks on QT3 P&R don't generally throw around too many wild, thinly supported accusations against those on the Left.

Really, like this thread where you insisted Obama's "bitter" statement should be taken at face value, no matter how awful that sounds (http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=43732&page=3), rather than give any benefit of the doubt?

Here's an idea: try to find conservative complaining about non-Fox networks mislabeling politicians, especially ones under scandal. Good luck with that.

Hanacker

06-24-2009, 05:24 PM

Here's an idea: try to find conservative complaining about non-Fox networks mislabeling politicians, especially ones under scandal. Good luck with that.

That took all of five seconds to find. (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/d-s-hube/2008/03/18/reuters-didnt-mislabel-spitzer-he-was-just-standing-right)

Phil_Stein

06-24-2009, 05:54 PM

Really, like this thread where you insisted Obama's "bitter" statement should be taken at face value, no matter how awful that sounds (http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=43732&page=3), rather than give any benefit of the doubt?

My first post in that topic was on page 4 (not page 3 that you linked to).

I won't repost my full comment, and I haven't read all the subsequent comments I made there, but here are some germaine parts (bolding added by me now):
The "bitter" part was a bad choice by Obama - it's not a winning strategy, in general, to say to the people whose votes you are trying to win that they are bitter. There are better ways to appeal to their sense of being economically beaten up.

But the real problem is the "cling to" part:
[snip]
I am a Christian and religion is important to me. The phrasing above suggests that myself and others like me have these views largely as a result of economic bitterness. Perhaps that's not what Obama intended to convey, but that's what comes through.
[snip]
Basically, the implication is that if you don't agree with Obama's views on guns (or religion?), it's not because you've thought through the issues yourself and reached a different conclusion than Obama, but rather, because your economic bitterness has blinded you and prevented you from being rational about other issues. That's, IMO, factually wrong (in most cases), and utterly condescending.
[snip]
So be it - politicians stick their foot in their mouth sometimes. But the surprising thing is that Obama hasn't really acknowledged the problem in his statement. He issued a lame-o non-apology, "Obviously, if I worded things in a way that made people offended, I deeply regret that", and seems to have focused on the "bitter" aspect of his comments, not the much more damaging "cling to" part.

Will this sink Obama's campaign? No, of course not. It's one mistake (albeit a large one) in a long campaign, and his opponents have made, and will make, mistakes of their own. But these comments have reduced the chances of me voting for Obama, and I think will do him real damage going forward, especially if he continues to say these kinds of things.
[snip]

(OK, I quoted most of it.)

I think my comment doesn't say Obama is an evil man or any such thing for having said what he said. Rather, I point out (correctly I still think), that it was a bad choice of words, and insulting to certain people, including me. Finally, I criticized his failure in the interim, after he'd had time to reflect, to really acknowledge (perhaps I should have said understand) why his comments were problematic to many.

Re-reading my comment (first comment only, anyways), I stand by it now. And I don't think the situation is particularly comparable to trying to judge whether a network intentionally and consistently makes a certain kind of silly, stupid mistake based on the fact that they have apparently made that mistake at least two times.

Phil_Stein

06-24-2009, 06:06 PM

Tyjenks

06-24-2009, 06:07 PM

Sorry to re-rail, but has anyone popsted this excerpt:

With those watching still wondering what he was admitting, Sanford said: "The odyssey that we're all on in life is with regard to heart."
[heavy sigh] People are just unreliable and looney and...I really don't have words to encompass my feelings. I wonder if he and John Edwards would go "runnin' whores" ever.

EDIT: I kinda feel bad now for contributing to the Republican pile-on, though. I think John Edwards is just as crappy.

Jason McCullough

06-24-2009, 06:08 PM

That took all of five seconds to find. (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/d-s-hube/2008/03/18/reuters-didnt-mislabel-spitzer-he-was-just-standing-right)

I'm impressed! That's the first one I've seen.

From that otherthread:

I'm not entirely sure what he meant. The simplest explanation is to take his statement at face value.

Right, that's you being all open-minded and above it all. My point in starting that thread was that the non-stupid interpretation of what he said and what he meant was both accurate IMHO and not even remotely offensive - that rural white voters, in reaction to getting economically kicked in the teeth, have been tricking into transferring their concerns to a nebulous conspiracy of people out to take their guns and make them gay.

By contrast, the "face value" interpretation that you're offended he won't apologize for even though that's clearly not what he meant is that he thinks rural americans are bitter little whiny bitch losers. Because, you know, Obama is such a stupendous moron he'd really mean that.

Now who is the one giving a politician of their own stripe "so much benefit of a doubt that it makes your face hurt?

Phil, the difference between you and me isn't how much blinders we have; it's that I admit I'm a hardcore partisan. You don't. You're not Newt Gingrich, but you consistently lean one direction whether you admit it or not. This isn't a personal criticism; you're no doubt a great person, and I love you games. But geez, it's Fox we're talking about here. Even Fox doesn't really pretend they're anything but ideological true believers who lie all the time anymore.

Mark Asher

06-24-2009, 06:14 PM

Sorry to re-rail, but has anyone popsted this excerpt:

[heavy sigh] People are just unreliable and looney and...I really don't have words to encompass my feelings. I wonder if he and John Edwards would go "runnin' whores" ever.

That comment about the "heart" reminds me of Woody Allen when he admitted he was banging his step-daughter.

"The heart wants what it wants."

People have been rationalizing bad behavior forever.

Tyjenks

06-24-2009, 06:16 PM

That comment about the "heart" reminds me of Woody Allen when he admitted he was banging his step-daughter.

"The heart wants what it wants."

People have been rationalizing bad behavior forever.

That is the worst part. I would not care nearly as much if he got caught and admitted it. Still a hypocrit, but a lot of us are in some fashion or other, but the parade of excuses and tears each time this happens just makes me want to shear their faces off with a potato peeler.

Mark Asher

06-24-2009, 06:28 PM

Yeah, Sanford would have been better off if he and his wife had gone public and said they were separating before all this occurred. That happens. People understand. It's lies and deception in a public official that become troubling.

Plus, he simply behaved irresponsibly. I think that hurts him more in the long run. I think a majority of Americans will be somewhat forgiving of an affair. They will be less forgiving of a Governor who disappears for days and doesn't even let his aides know where he is.

Tyjenks

06-24-2009, 06:35 PM

I can easily see how males with penises would cheat after years of marriage, unhappiness, boredom, whatever...I know, I have been married 13 years. I am in no way judging him for that. You are right, Mark, obviously. The forethought and planning to skip the country for several days not let anyone know is just messed up. Then he stated he cried for 5 days while he was there!!! Just STFU!!! Jee-zus.

zengonzo

06-24-2009, 06:37 PM

You guys are hung up on a modern definition of environmentalism.

Haha. I know what you mean! I commune with nature every day on my drive to work, rocking some Skynyrd, AC full-blast.

There's dirt somewhere under the street, right?

Saiban

06-24-2009, 06:40 PM

Even Fox doesn't really pretend they're anything but ideological true believers who lie all the time anymore.

Well, yeah, other than that whole "Fair and Balanced" being their network motto and everything...

But anyway. I think it's probably more likely that Fox News, being Fox News, is staffed by more conservative types than other cable news networks -- and I think you'll find that 'ideological true believers' are much more likely to believe bad things about the opposition than they will about their own side. In other words, they're more likely to err on the side of putting a D in front of a name associated with something bad. Because after all, everyone knows the Republicans are the party of moral values, amirite?

Mark Asher

06-24-2009, 07:30 PM

Ha ha. Some unofficial open mic in D.C. "roasting" Sanford produced this little gem:

"In defense of Sanford's aides, 'I'm getting some Argentinean tail' sounds a lot like 'I'm on the Appalachian Trail'..."

zengonzo

06-24-2009, 07:39 PM

I love it.

Mordrak

06-24-2009, 07:49 PM

Haha. I know what you mean! I commune with nature every day on my drive to work, rocking some Skynyrd, AC full-blast.

There's dirt somewhere under the street, right?

Actually, you're not far off. What do you think traditional road movies are about? He's not only talking about getting touchy feely with some greenery. He's talking about his relation to his work, society, and his own identity. He's romanticizing a kind of pastoral existence where he feels more connected to his work. It's not about being close to the dirt.

It's basically a midlife crisis. Heh. But it's hardly as inconsistent as you all claim.

zengonzo

06-24-2009, 07:53 PM

And grabbing some chick's big knockers because of his odyssey of the heart. I totally dig.

Mordrak

06-24-2009, 07:55 PM

And grabbing some chick's big knockers because of his odyssey of the heart. I totally dig.

Yeah, I'm not defending it as genuine soul searching. Maybe I'll try that after I get slapped next time.

"Hey baby, I'm just trying to find myself in your breasts."

zengonzo

06-24-2009, 08:02 PM

Haha!

Skipper

06-24-2009, 08:02 PM

Yeah, I'm not defending it as genuine soul searching. Maybe I'll try that after I get slapped next time.

"Hey baby, I'm just trying to find myself in your breasts."

Or in this case, something like:

"Hey bebé, estoy intentando encontrarme en tu agarraderas."

I have literally no idea if that's right.

zengonzo

06-24-2009, 08:05 PM

Yeah, I'm not defending it as genuine soul searching.

Your point ain't lost.

Mostly, it just gave me the impression of the sort of people who go camping and then sit in their air-conditioned RV watching DVDs.

XtienMurawski

06-24-2009, 09:05 PM

"The odyssey that we're all on in life is with regard to heart."

I feel for this man as a human being. He has feelings like all of us do, and sometimes those feelings are hard to reconcile with what society demands. Life is brutal, especially when your heart is big. I feel for him. I understand his tears.

And as soon as he stops being a tool about the civil rights of people who happen to be gay, I will say all is forgiven and tell those in the public arena to STFU about it. But until he gets the goddamn log out of his own eye, fuck him.

-xtien

Blackadar

06-25-2009, 05:32 AM

Kraaze

06-25-2009, 06:18 AM

Lots of well-to-do people have hobby farms or whatnot and like to play with tractors and excavators so they can pretend to be salt-of-the-earth poor people before heading back to their mansions and/or yachts.

I've known several people who enjoy this sort of thing (bigwigs in tech firms no less), and I think you've mischaracterized the motivation. It's not playing poor people, it's playing at the poor persons dream of being rich. They play with tractors and excavators but can take all the beer breaks they want and if any job gets to be messy or annoying they can just pay someone to finish it.

I think it's just fulfilling the silly wishes from their younger days, which I can sympathize with. It's the same reason I have a 90's Camaro I never drive in my garage :)

SpoofyChop

06-25-2009, 06:44 AM

I've known several people who enjoy this sort of thing (bigwigs in tech firms no less), and I think you've mischaracterized the motivation. It's not playing poor people, it's playing at the poor persons dream of being rich. They play with tractors and excavators but can take all the beer breaks they want and if any job gets to be messy or annoying they can just pay someone to finish it.

I think it's just fulfilling the silly wishes from their younger days, which I can sympathize with. It's the same reason I have a 90's Camaro I never drive in my garage :)

On topic, William Saletan has a very interesting and unexpected critique of Sanford's confession.

http://www.slate.com/id/2221333/

Off topic, Nick both you and the other guy are wrong about the salt of the earth fantasy stuff.

I'm in the tech industry, I make good money, and I'm good at what I do. My job seems very stable compared to corporate jobs on average in this economy, and I have very good benefits.

And yet many days I desperately wish that I could quit my job, move to the country, become a farmer, and do all the salt of the earth stuff that you guys are mocking. The desire to do something very fundamentally related to daily needs...working on a farm, working on the land...that's not silly at all.

Everything I've ever seen suggests that farmers generally find the work extremely fulfilling on a very visceral level. You work hard and you produce something very basic but very useful. I just recently started a garden for this exact reason and I really wish I could raise chickens like Tim.

Unfortunately I really can't actually change my lifestyle because my wife doesn't share the dream and there are several other more important personal/family reasons why it simply wouldn't work out. I made the commitment to my wife and kids before I became disenchanted with the high tech world. My commitment to them has to take precedence over my own wishes.

Staying in the IT business is stable and provides what we need far better than farming ever would. And I don't hate what I do...sometimes it's very enjoyable, but many days it feels very far removed from anything "real."

If I won the lottery tomorrow I guarantee you that I would buy a farm and I would work it about as much like you describe. (I'm assuming here that as long as we could live locally and not give up anything we have now that my wife would go along with it. It's not that she wouldn't like to live on a farm, just that farming wouldn't provide what we and our kids are accustomed to.) I would do some of the dirty work but when it got too exhausting I would quit for the day and let the farmhands finish the job. I don't even really understand what you mean by "playing at the poor persons dream of being rich."

It wouldn't have anything to do with being rich or being poor, it would have everything to do with being able to engage in an activity with real, immediate, basic results without having to compromise on the other modern white collar upper-middle-class lifestyle stuff like quality health care, iPhones, and good schools.

Phil_Stein

06-25-2009, 07:06 AM

You're arguing a point you know to be false, but you're doing it to defend your ideology.

You're effectively accusing me of lying.

I don't take that lightly.

Please be very clear about what point you think I'm lying about. Or retract your statement. Or simply fuck off. Your call.

Blackadar

06-25-2009, 07:10 AM

You're effectively accusing me of lying.

I don't take that lightly.

Please be very clear about what point you think I'm lying about. Or retract your statement. Or simply fuck off. Your call.

No, I think that you've pretty much established that you are lying. Stop being a disingenous douche. Or not. Your call.

Kraaze

06-25-2009, 07:11 AM

No, I think that you've pretty much established that you are lying. Stop being a disingenous douche. Or not. Your call.

So Phil made a few reasonable objections that your claim wasn't well enough established to be supportable and your counter argument is the deep and well reasoned retort that he must be a lying douche for not blindly agreeing with you?

Does your babysitter even know you are on the computer?

Blackadar

06-25-2009, 07:23 AM

So Phil made a few reasonable objections that your claim wasn't well enough established to be supportable and your counter argument is the deep and well reasoned retort that he must be a lying douche for not blindly agreeing with you?

Does your babysitter even know you are on the computer?

No, but your wife does.

Yes, I think he's a lying douche because I think the evidence supports itself. It's the chicken-shit way many conservatives (and not just a few liberals as well) debate because they think it's an effective tactic - continue to deny anything and everything ask keep asking for more proof. Once someone has established that proof, you first mischaracterize it (three incidents in a year in a half become two incidents in three years as he mentions above - another fabrication on his part) and then deny everything all over again. That's fine if he wants to do that. Personally, I think he's being intellectually dishonest because he needs Fox to be right to validate his preconceived notions. If it happened 10 times, a 100 times, or a 1000 times, I think we'd get very much the same argument.

Of course, if you need more proof, I don't know if it gets much better than this:

http://cloudfront.mediamatters.org/static/images/item/fox-20080702-steinberg.jpg

http://cloudfront.mediamatters.org/static/images/item/fox-20080702-redicliffe.jpg

Personally, I love the yellowing of the teeth and the huge nose on Steinberg (great use of Jewish stereotyping on that one).

zengonzo

06-25-2009, 07:24 AM

On topic, William Saletan has a very interesting and unexpected critique of Sanford's confession.

http://www.slate.com/id/2221333/

If anything, Sanford can only be accused of having too much love to give ..

Maybe if the dude had been more generous with other people's penicular indiscretions, I could see cutting him some slack. But I fucking hate that White Linen Game, which you play hard as long as nobody can find your own Dirty Laundry.

His family are the ones that deserve the empathy at this point. I can't imagine how humiliating it must feel to have your dad nationally exposed to be cheating on your family. What an ass.

zengonzo

06-25-2009, 07:27 AM

Fox's Wall of Madness (http://imgur.com/ARXD4.jpg).

zengonzo

06-25-2009, 07:31 AM

That's fine if he wants to do that. Personally, I think he's being intellectually dishonest because he needs Fox to be right to validate his preconceived notions. If it happened 10 times, a 100 times, or a 1000 times, I think we'd get very much the same argument.

Ease up, Black. Phil's a smart guy. Try some honey, instead.

Tracy Baker

06-25-2009, 07:39 AM

On topic, William Saletan has a very interesting and unexpected critique of Sanford's confession.

http://www.slate.com/id/2221333/

Off topic, Nick both you and the other guy are wrong about the salt of the earth fantasy stuff.

[snip]

And yet many days I desperately wish that I could quit my job, move to the country, become a farmer, and do all the salt of the earth stuff that you guys are mocking. The desire to do something very fundamentally related to daily needs...working on a farm, working on the land...that's not silly at all.

[snip]

If I won the lottery tomorrow I guarantee you that I would buy a farm and I would work it about as much like you describe. (I'm assuming here that as long as we could live locally and not give up anything we have now that my wife would go along with it. It's not that she wouldn't like to live on a farm, just that farming wouldn't provide what we and our kids are accustomed to.) I would do some of the dirty work but when it got too exhausting I would quit for the day and let the farmhands finish the job. I don't even really understand what you mean by "playing at the poor persons dream of being rich."

It wouldn't have anything to do with being rich or being poor, it would have everything to do with being able to engage in an activity with real, immediate, basic results without having to compromise on the other modern white collar upper-middle-class lifestyle stuff like quality health care, iPhones, and good schools.

I'm going to show this to the farmers I know (and I know a lot of them) so they can get a good laugh out of it. "I'm tired of this angst-inducing, high-paying, secure yet meaningless white collar life full of compromise. I want to be fulfilled by being a farmer, but this iPhone simply won't allow it. Curse you, Apple!" Only someone who has never farmed for a living could come up with this kind of grass is greener bullshit. Anyone who has farmed for a living knows that you don't work the land. The land works you. Generally until you desperately wish you could quit your job, move to the city, and only see produce at a grocery store.

Thing is, you can do everything you mentioned with a backyard and a shovel if that's really your motivation. Playing with a bunch of big toys and then letting the farm hands do the dirty work when you run out of mint juleps is about as close to being a real farmer and working the land as, say, joining the Navy.

Some of the hobby farm folks came from a farming background and are legitimately trying to reconnect with it, but most of them just want to play the role of Farmer Joe for a while before diving back into the rat race. Then they can empathetically nod at the wait staff when dining at world class restaurants because they know what it's like to get their hands dirty. They can connect with the poor because they've been there. On their hobby farm. Playing with a tractor until the mint juleps ran out.

Phil_Stein

06-25-2009, 07:47 AM

My point in starting that thread [Phil's note: this thread (http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=43732)] was that the non-stupid interpretation of what he said and what he meant was both accurate IMHO and not even remotely offensive - that rural white voters, in reaction to getting economically kicked in the teeth, have been tricking into transferring their concerns to a nebulous conspiracy of people out to take their guns and make them gay.

By contrast, the "face value" interpretation that you're offended he won't apologize for even though that's clearly not what he meant is that he thinks rural americans are bitter little whiny bitch losers. Because, you know, Obama is such a stupendous moron he'd really mean that.

Here was Obama's quote (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/44/2008/04/11/obama_expands_on_bitter_pennsy.html):
"And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

There are at least major aspects to the quote that are insulting. The first is that these people are bitter (that's what drives them) as a result of their economic situation. It may even be true, but I'm not confident that it's universally true, and in any case, its a terribly stupid thing for a politician to say. Kinda like saying "Nancy the secretary is fat because she's lonely and eats out of her depression." May or may not be true, but offensive and stupid to say in public nonetheless. Yet you, in your first post in that thread (starting the thread even), applauded Obama, saying the statement was obvious, and ending with "Hooray!"

The more insulting part of the statement to me, and I think many others, was the notion that folks bitterness was the driving force for their attachment to guns and religion, with a tack-on insult that these folks were xenophobic, which also has a hint of suggesting that the first two traits in that phrase (attachment to guns and religion) are somewhat shameful in the way that xenophobia is.

It was a tremendously stupid, gaffe-y thing for a talented politician like Obama to say. There is, AFAIK, no factual argument that he said it. It wasn't like there was a strong possibility that there was some low-level technician in his campaign (low level technician at Fox), making either a modest error or a stupid joke. This was the main guy, saying something stupid.

Yes, you can parse between the lines and perhaps find a non-offensive message that he might have wanted to convey instead, but that's not what he conveyed.

Politicians sometimes say stupid stuff. It happens. (And savvy political observers realize when their own guy says something stupid and don't cheer "Hooray!") It's still damaging to make a high profile blunder. But the way you minimize the damage is by recognizing what was stupid about what you said, and apologizing for it. Obama did issue an apology of sorts, but he didn't, IMO, really address head-on the implications of what he said about clinging to guns and religion. FWIW, on re-reading his apology now (you can see it here (http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1730546,00.html)), it doesn't strike me as quite as bad as it apparently struck me then. Not a masterwork of empathy or statesmanship, but not awful.

Phil_Stein

06-25-2009, 07:48 AM

(Continuing with the second part of Jason's post...)

Phil, the difference between you and me isn't how much blinders we have; it's that I admit I'm a hardcore partisan. You don't. You're not Newt Gingrich, but you consistently lean one direction whether you admit it or not. This isn't a personal criticism; you're no doubt a great person, and I love you games. But geez, it's Fox we're talking about here. Even Fox doesn't really pretend they're anything but ideological true believers who lie all the time anymore.

Jason, you may be willing to wear blinders (I'm not accusing, just echoing your words), but I certainly try not to. I don't admit that I'm a hardcore partisan because I don't think that I am. I wouldn't say that I consistently lean one direction in that I don't lean that way all the time. More than 51% of the time? Yeah. But not all the time. I have my own set of thoughts and beliefs that is not dictated by the Republican party - sometimes my views are close to those of the Democratic party. On a lot of issues, I don't have a particularly strong opinion, because a lot of issues are complex, and really evaluating the evidence well is time-consuming. I'm more inclined to tentatively accept the opinions of certain individuals than either party, because I find that the reliability of individuals for generally being accurate on issues they're passionate about is higher than the reliability of parties (or news sources that aggregate the opinions of many individuals).

As for Fox - I don't have much of an opinion on the network as a whole. Like CNN and MSNBC, I mainly use it as a source for actual news, and generally breaking news that is photo or video friendly (stuff like Iran, or a breaking disaster, or whatnot). I occasionally catch bits of the evening opinion segments, but regard most of them as buffoonery of varying degrees. Fox has more right-wing buffoonery, MSNBC has more left-wing buffoonery - I don't really care much either way. Shows that I don't much watch don't impact me much.

As for the original issue that kicked off this derail - do I think it is likely that a network which has a tilt to the right in its evening buffoonery intentionally and consistently commits minor, easily detectable errors in identifying politicians, on the basis of ~2 such errors having been shown to occur over the last ~3 years (as well, apparently, as some similar errors going the other way)? Well, my null hypothesis (absent ANY evidence) is that such a thing would be unlikely, at a network wide level, because there is little to be gained (they're gonna fool people into thinking Sanford is a Democrat?), and slightly more to be lost (credibility - yes, though you personally may doubt it, I think Fox, like CNN and MSNBC *tries* to convey credibility). I think it *is* possible that networks make mistakes, and it is also possible that some low level flunky would intentionally distort this stuff to be funny or whatever, but I think the latter is pretty unlikely.

So then, that's my pre-evidence position. Now, we consider some evidence, that Fox did in fact make the two errors in question (again, I think the third was an affiliate), and as someone pointed out later, Fox has made similar errors the other way. This evidence was brought to light not in a neutral setting, but rather, on a generally highly partisan internet forum that delights in collecting the missteps of those perceived as being on the Right. i.e. I would expect that errors suggesting Fox tilting Right would get more prominence than errors suggesting Fox being neutral or tilting Left, or for that matter, highlighting errors by MSNBC.

So, how much does this evidence change my prior opinion? Not much, even before the evidence showing the opposite direction errors. It's just not very strong evidence in general. That's not to say that it's impossible that someone at Fox did this intentionally, but rather, that the evidence is not strong enough to significantly sway my opinion on the matter.

Phil_Stein

06-25-2009, 07:51 AM

Kraaze

06-25-2009, 07:55 AM

Phil_Stein

06-25-2009, 07:58 AM

Also, to be very clear not just to Blackadar but to the forum in general:

I have no problem with someone disputing my position (or try not to :) ). Hey, it's P&R. I enjoy this place even though I realize I am often at odds with the majority position around here.

If I say that I think Obama's plan for X is a bad idea for reasons A, B, and C, and you disagree with me, and cite D, E, and F (and dispute me on B), that's fine.

What I do not like is being called a liar - that is an entirely different thing - a different level.

Also, I try to be very civil around here. I am genuinely angry right now, and being less civil than I prefer. Apologies in advance.

zengonzo

06-25-2009, 08:02 AM

I think you're fine, Phil. Don't let it get to you. It's just Internet-itus, and it spreads at a cough.

Here, look at this picture of a napping baby fox for a bit, and it'll get better:

http://www.vivapixel.com/media/4422800421/me_1243475568_yti4c.jpg

The internet takes with one hand, and gives with the other.

Ben Sones

06-25-2009, 08:05 AM

Yeah. Blackadar, Phil not agreeing with you doesn't make him a liar, and the only one acting like a douche in this thread is you.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3217/3015062728_6b27f9a6ae.jpg?v=0

Blackadar

06-25-2009, 08:21 AM

Blackadar, you're pissing me off more than you know. I normally don't get too worked up about P&R stuff, but I really don't like being accused of lying.

*****VERY VERY SPECIFICALLY*****

QUOTE AN EXACT BIT OF SOMETHING I HAVE SAID IN THIS THREAD, AND SHOW HOW I WAS LYING.

If you are correct and I am lying, this should be very easy for you to do, and you will win all kinds of forum credibility for having shown up a veteran poster.

Put up or shut up, asshole.

"~2 such errors having been shown to occur over the last ~3 years"

You've repeated that twice, when the original posts you responded to had 3 such examples shown. Now how many have been posted? 5? 7? Yet you just used that exact same phrase in a post not less than an hour ago. What is that, a mistake? An omission? A lie? Or are you being - as I originally said - intellectually dishonest? That's the phrase I started with - you felt like escalating with 'lying', so I accommodated you on that one. I probably shouldn't have, because 'intellectually dishonest' really is what I'm looking for here.

Your veteran status means jack and I don't need your validation as an ego boost. But if you're going to purposely stick your head in the sand and then challenge other posters to prove you're wrong, don't be surprised when someone tells that you have blinders on and that you're putting them on purposely. Personally, it's the kind of debate tactic that irritates me probably more than anything because it's not based on fact, or belief, but based on simply being obstinate and purposely obtuse.

You want to debate the issue? Tell me how in the fact of this evidence and that no other major media outlet has made this kind of mistake repeatedly, why you can continue to think that this is just some sort of happy accident by Fox? And do you get your news - in part or in whole - from Fox? And if you do, if these mistakes are just 'accicdents', why could you believe anything if they can't get this right?

salwon

06-25-2009, 08:24 AM

http://cloudfront.mediamatters.org/static/images/item/fox-20080702-steinberg.jpg

http://cloudfront.mediamatters.org/static/images/item/fox-20080702-redicliffe.jpg

I still love these. "Hey, can you Jew them up a little?"

CLWheeljack

06-25-2009, 08:28 AM

You want to debate the issue? Tell me how in the fact of this evidence and that no other major media outlet has made this kind of mistake repeatedly, why you can continue to think that this is just some sort of happy accident by Fox? And do you get your news - in part or in whole - from Fox? And if you do, if these mistakes are just 'accicdents', why could you believe anything if they can't get this right?

BA, I thought we'd established that we didn't have any data on how often this sort of mistake appears on other networks. In fact, somebody also provided evidence that Fox is just that incompetent (labeling McCain as D while he was a presidential candidate and not embroiled in any scandal that I can recall).

wahoo

06-25-2009, 08:32 AM

"
You want to debate the issue? Tell me how in the fact of this evidence and that no other major media outlet has made this kind of mistake repeatedly, why you can continue to think that this is just some sort of happy accident by Fox? And do you get your news - in part or in whole - from Fox? And if you do, if these mistakes are just 'accicdents', why could you believe anything if they can't get this right?

I want you to contact the Media Research Center and Michelle Malkin and see if they any evidence of these type of accidents from other networks.

This board is a w cocoon of folks who read left of center sites and use them to validate their beliefs. I would expect that if anyone on this board regularly read right of center sites, they could easily come up with a list of similar mistakes by other media networks. But when MSNBC screws up, no one is reading a blog that talks about the downfall of civilization b/c MSNBC is so corrupt.