Should Gray Davis be recalled?

[XPav]

Once again, open to everyone!

[bmulligan]

What do I care? I don't even live in California. But I think he should be recalled if the people of California choose it, and follow the proper legal procedures to do so. It's not some 'vast right wing conspiracy' to unseat democrats as the DNC chief and Davis keep hammering into their readily consumable media soundbytes. Saying the recall is unfair shows what crybabies they are.

[Dirt]

Whatever the outcome, California's recall law needs to be revamped.

[Robert Sharp]

I don't live in CA. Could someone give me the details of all this. Every media source seems to put it differently. WHY exactly do people WANT to recall Davis? And why is it bad to have a recall vote? Isn't it like a no-confidence vote in the parliament? If someone is doing a bad job and the people who voted him into office don't like him, why shouldn't they recall him? Or is it possible for political opponents to really do the recalling?

[Jason McCullough]

1) The budget deficit
2) The power crisis
3) He's extremely unpersonable, considering how far he's gotten.

That's it. IMHO, he's not really responsible for 2 & 3, but what do I know.

[Rywill]

And why is it bad to have a recall vote? Isn't it like a no-confidence vote in the parliament? If someone is doing a bad job and the people who voted him into office don't like him, why shouldn't they recall him? Or is it possible for political opponents to really do the recalling?
It's bad because it costs a lot of money, and it isn't traditionally the way we do things in America. Out here, you usually have an election and the person elected serves for whatever his term is. If you don't like him, you vote him out at the next election. We don't have "no confidence" votes like a parliamentary system (at least, not for higher offices--lots of times mayors and stuff can be recalled; even that is rarely done, though, AFAIK).

CA's recall procedure was written into our law decades ago and is not used. It's something that was pulled out of the mothballs by an ambitious and wealthy man who wanted to grab the governorship for himself (although he later backed out of the race, presumably because he knew he had no chance of winning). It's just a terrible, terrible precedent--if this succeeds, there are going to be people calling for recalls all the time, and that's just bad for the state. Even if no other recalls get on the ballot, it's distracting to the governor and the government in general.

This recall is just an awful idea. I don't like Davis, but I am SO against this recall.

[Dave Markell]

I agree with everything Rywill just said. I'm voting "no" on the recall not because I like Davis, but because this process is so terribly flawed. However, I'm pretty sure he'll be recalled anyway, so I have to pick a "least terrible" alternative to vote for in his place. It's going to be tough, since I don't like any of the 5 or 6 major candidates at all.

[Tom Chick]

I'm completely with Ryan and Dave. The clearest way to protest the recall (in addition to voting 'no', of course) is to vote for Bustamante. I think the subtext of Bustamante being in office is 'your administration gets to finish its term until the *real* election rolls around instead of this stupid, ill-conceived, rabble-rousing sideshow'.

-Tom

[Ben Sones]

Actually, I don't think you can vote "no" on the recall and pick a replacement candidate. If I'm not mistaken, the ballot is an "either/or" sort of deal.

[Tom Chick]

Argh, this is just the sort of confusion that's going to fuck up the whole thing! Ben, please tell me you don't live in California. :)

-Tom

[Ben Sones]

I don't, but I was talking to Ry about the whole thing last week, and that's what he told me. If you vote "no" on the recall, you are done. You don't get to vote on a replacement on the off chance that the recall goes through anyway.

[Dave Markell]

Actually, I don't think you can vote "no" on the recall and pick a replacement candidate. If I'm not mistaken, the ballot is an "either/or" sort of deal.

Nope, not true. You can vote on both issues no matter how you vote on the recall proper. However, Ben, a LOT of people here in California have the same idea on this issue as you do. It's a very common misconception that needs to be changed, fast, so that everyone who goes to the polls is prepared to vote for a candidate no matter how they feel about the recall.

[Ergo]

Bill Maher had some really funny commentary about this a couple of weeks ago on Real Time on HBO.

"What's going on here in California, if you're lucky enough to not have been following this, is that the economy turned, so we're getting rid of the governor. But what if we drive him out of office and the economy still doesn't get better? I guess we'll have to burn him. And if that doesn't work, we'll kill his dog.

Yes, in baseball when the team stinks, you fire the manager. But you don't fire him because it rains. And you don't let the opposing team choose a new manager for you.
And you don't fire him between innings. And replace him with a Viennese weightlifter.
Here's why the economy turned: The dot-com bubble burst. (Obviously on the orders of Gray Davis.) The airline industry collapsed. (Just as Gray Davis planned.) We fought two wars. (Playing right into Gray Davis' hands.) And Dick Cheney's friends at Enron "gamed" the energy market and ripped off the state for billions.

So you can see the problem: Gray Davis.

And the obvious solution: A Viennese weightlifter."

[Tom Chick]

I don't, but I was talking to Ry about the whole thing last week, and that's what he told me.

Ryan told you that? Ryan, say it ain't so. Surely you, of all people, know better. Et tu, Ryan?

-Tom

[Dirt]

1) The budget deficit
2) The power crisis
3) He's extremely unpersonable, considering how far he's gotten.

That's it. IMHO, he's not really responsible for 2 & 3, but what do I know.

That's 2 out of 3 for Bush too.

[Dirt]

Bustamante should replace Davis no matter what. He's the Lt. Governor. I'd lobby for him moving into the position even if he were a Republican.

[Rywill]

I don't, but I was talking to Ry about the whole thing last week, and that's what he told me.

Ryan told you that? Ryan, say it ain't so. Surely you, of all people, know better. Et tu, Ryan?

-Tom
I did tell him that, around two weeks ago, but since learned that I was incorrect. In my defense, the state lawmakers didn't know what the answer was either, and a judge eventually decided. For the record, though, Tom and Dave have it right: you get to vote in both sections, no matter what you vote for the first one.

Like Tom, I'll be voting "No" and "Bustamante," just to try and stop anyone from doing this horseshit again.

[bmulligan]

Actually, I read the heat on Davis's back stems from his assault on prop 13 along with the state school superintendent, and California Democrats who all believe that they should be able to raise taxes by simple majority and want the high court to strike down the 2/3 majority law. Also, the doubling of car licence fees at the DMV. Along with the budget deficits and poor economy. Who wants higher taxes when the economy is faltering ?

[Rywill]

They were tripled, actually, not doubled.

[XPav]

Alright, if no one wants higher taxes, what is going to be cut?

Oh wait, that's right, no one wants to cut anything either.

Repeal California term limits. Please.

[bmulligan]

Ouch!

Gov. Grandholm just doubled the fees in Michigan to raise money and not raise "taxes". Perhaps a recall in Michigan is in order............ ???

[Jason McCullough]

I'd like my government services for free!

[voltaic]

Quit your job and get on the welfare, and you've got 'em, dude. :?

[Jason McCullough]

Well yeah, if I want shitty and half-assed government services (http://www.stateline.org/fact.do?factId=125). You have to be middle class to get the real money.

[Rywill]

I'd like my government services for free!
I'm not sure whose turn it is to call bullshit on your crappy one-liner, but saying "I don't want my taxes to go up again" is not the same as saying "I don't want to pay any taxes at all."

[Jason McCullough]

Well how are they supposed to pay for everything? The only candidates willing to cut spending or raise taxes are Simon and Davis!

Maybe this is the logical outcome of a really polarized electorate, I don't know.

[Kyle Wilson]

I think democracy is the notion that the people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. The people who voted Davis into office haven't had to put up with him yet to really suffer as much as they deserve.

[XPav]

I think democracy is the notion that the people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. The people who voted Davis into office haven't had to put up with him yet to really suffer as much as they deserve.

Huh?

[JessicaM]

1) The budget deficit
2) The power crisis
3) He's extremely unpersonable, considering how far he's gotten.

That's it. IMHO, he's not really responsible for 2 & 3, but what do I know.

I was living in CA during the power crisis, and Davis was nowhere to be found for weeks. He wouldn't comment or take action. It was only after people started writing nasty-grams to their state Assemblymen and rolling blackouts were scheduled that Davis could be coerced to comment.

That more than anything else ticked people off. That, and the fact that he took no meaningful action for months. Even I was disgusted, who knows that California has the most politically corrupt and inept state government in the Union.

[Dirt]

There's quite a fiasco going on over in Texas.

Also, I believe, we (CA) get our power from the Texas companies who just recently admitted that the rolling blackouts weren't necessary, they were just a way to jack up prices. And, Davis did request help from GW Bush, who flat out refused saying it was a State problem. Now, after the Northern Eastern USA blackouts, all of a sudden it's no longer a State problem but one that can be solved by beginning to drill in Alaska. Gee, no corrupt politicking there, huh?