Fatal Frame III (spoilers)

[malkav11]

Recently finished up Fatal Frame III at long last. It's definitely creepy, it's a definite gameplay improvement (in many respects, at least) on the previous games, and it has an interesting structure with the dream/waking world set up and the switching between characters....

But I confess I seem to have missed whatever was so awesome that triggercut and Tom Chick raved about in previous threads. You fellas want to comment, spoilerishly?

[Jab]

Finally found a copy of this at gamestop and have been playing it for the last few days. I'm at the final boss now and will most likely finish the game either tonight or tomorrow. I think I'm ready for a spoiler filled discussion. I have to agree with malkav that FF3 is good, but not excellent.


Major spoiler warnings:


One of my biggest annoyance is that this game loves to throw multiple ghosts at you at the same time which I don't remember there being as many of these in FF1 or 2. This becomes a problem when you can't tell when a ghost behind you is about to attack. Also I found that sometimes my character would auto lock onto a ghost and other times wouldn't.

The miasma gimmick got on my nerves and I found it easier to just run to the nearest exit and fill it back up rather then having the monochrome vision. Also having Kei be the weakest in a fight and still forcing him into fighting enemies was a poor choice. Even with the spirit power increase maxed out I don't think I ever saw his charge improve at all.

Story wise I thought it was ok but I think I missed some plot points. What happened to the girl from FF2 when Kei chased her, and who were the twins that you had to gather the light and shadow keys from were supposed to be? How did Reika's (tattoo lady) boyfriend even managed to get all the way to the chamber, was it that little girl and if so then why did she keep on attacking me?

[malkav11]

Well, remember, people fall into this dreaming sickness because of the losses they've suffered. So (as far as I could tell), neither Kei's niece nor Reika's boyfriend were ever actually there - they were just lures. The ghosts you fight are, I believe, either dreamers who were fully lost to the mansion (like the crash survivor) or the people involved with the Tattooed Priestess rite.

[Jab]

more spoilers:

I thought Reika's boyfriend was actually there and the cause of the whole thing, also looking at the ghost list after beating the game. I think I mistaken all the stake girls and maidens to Amane .

I was right about there being an auto lock on, I was looking at the equipped function list and there is one that supposedly auto locks onto ghosts but it never seemed to be reliable. I will say that even though I hated playing as Kei his death sequence was pretty unexpected and cool. There are two areas of the house that I never managed to get to. One was the door at the entrance that has the notched arrow lock and the other was the room that you have to cross over the courtyard on the 2nd floor to reach, where it says that there is a way down but it is blocked.

Lastly was there a use for the echostone that I missed?

[triggercut]

Oh spoilery spoiler spoiler space!

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The amazingly cool thing that the producers of FF3 did so well was in creating a dynamic that played with the mind of the player at home. They did something similar in FF2.

In Fatal Frame 2, you start the game controlling one sister in a set of twins, and for the first third of the game, you two are mostly together...and then she gets ghostnapped, and you realize that even though the twin sister was sort of a pathing annoyance and didn't get in the way, when she's gone the absolutely crushing feeling of being totally *alone* is completely wrenching.

FF3 does that one better. It establishes a rule from the beginning of the game: when you're awake and at home, you're in a safe haven. Ghosts can only get you when you sleep...and as intense as the action gets in the dream house action sequences, you're almost relieved to finally wake up in bed and you're safe for a while. And then....the apartment becomes not so much a safe haven. Hey! Ghosts! Fuck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Xemu]

My absolute favorite, most understated by effective moment from FF3 is when they first start playing with breaking down that barrier. There's the jump scare of a moving person they do in your laundry room or somesuch, which was powerful. But what really got me was a little girl's feet just standing behind the curtain in your main room. When you went over to investigate, they disappeared. But those feet just creeped me the fuck out.

[triggercut]

My absolute favorite, most understated by effective moment from FF3 is when they first start playing with breaking down that barrier. There's the jump scare of a moving person they do in your laundry room or somesuch, which was powerful. But what really got me was a little girl's feet just standing behind the curtain in your main room. When you went over to investigate, they disappeared. But those feet just creeped me the fuck out.

Exactly. It's like your brain just refuses to accept it at first. "Wait, this is the safe fucking harbor, dammit....GAH!!!" It is a brilliant piece of game design.

[Jab]

One other question that came to mind, the blocked off room on the second floor near where you first meet the survivor , who is supposed to be in there later on in the game where you start to hear singing.

[malkav11]

BTW, why are people using spoiler space in a specifically labelled spoiler thread? :p

[triggercut]

BTW, why are people using spoiler space in a specifically labelled spoiler thread? :p

Because piss off.

[malkav11]

more spoilers:

I thought Reika's boyfriend was actually there and the cause of the whole thing, also looking at the ghost list after beating the game.

Oh, right. Reika being the Tattooed Priestess, not the main character. For some reason I read "tattooed lady" and immediately thought of the tattoos that appeared on her when she woke up, not, y'know, the person covered in them. -foreheadslaps-

[Jonathan Crane]

My absolute favorite, most understated by effective moment from FF3 is when they first start playing with breaking down that barrier. There's the jump scare of a moving person they do in your laundry room or somesuch, which was powerful. But what really got me was a little girl's feet just standing behind the curtain in your main room. When you went over to investigate, they disappeared. But those feet just creeped me the fuck out.

SPOILERS!!!

This stuff was a bit spoiled for me in the original FF3 thread (thanks guys!), but it was still wonderful. There are several moments when the developers set up a rhythm in the game and then break it to excellent effect. I'm thinking of when you "wake up" from the dreamworld and are safe - this happens a bunch of times, so that when you see the main character sit up in bed with a gasp, you relax. Except that one time... and then they go an reference Twin Peaks. Absolutely masterful. Interestingly, System Shock does this early on, when they establish a rhythm with your contact with the outside world, and then they break it, making you feel even more lonely.

The other bit is in the attic, with the radio. There's the expectation that you will see a hand on your shoulder, as you have when just about any other thing is behind you (Tatooed lady springs to mind) and then - the face! The sense of being entirely too close to the ghost was again beautifully done.

For me the biggest scare was a meta scare. I live in an old, creaky farm house in the middle of nowhere, and while I'm playing the game, I know that it is just a game. But when the ghosts started showing up in the 'real world' in the game, it broke down that sense of safety. I was thinking 'Well, I'm not playing the game, so I'm safe'. When that safety eroded in the game, I started feeling less safe in the real world. And then I started worrying while climbing the creaking stairs at home. Maybe I shouldn't have been playing it every night. It was great. I really loved this game.

[malkav11]

I never actually played the second game, but watching the video Let's Play of it really sold me on that one as the apex of the series, narrative/settingwise. It just seemed like it was a lot more clearly plotted (or maybe it was just that the guy playing it knew every corner of the game and could show it off to best advantage), with each house in the village being its own creepy tragedy that related ultimately to the meta-narrative, and the unique ghost designs like the twin and her doll were really cool. Plus, the really awful nature of the ritual and the knowledge that, despite that, it really was necessary because fucking it up caused all the bad shit to go down. And the ending. Not the "true" ending, which I thought was honestly kind of lame comparatively, or the new Xbox ending, which was SPECTACULARLY lame. But the default, normal ending (the bad ending is also pretty sweet). The way everything has built to that.

III had some cool ideas, including the waking/sleeping dynamic, but it just didn't gel the same way in my experience of it. The final boss (maybe not the "true" final boss, I dunno. Not going to do New Game+) was pretty freaky though, I will say that.