Anyone here have a Mazdaspeed 3?

[tiohn]

My Honda Accord ate it this week, so I'm in the market for a new used car.
I've been considering a Fit, but with the outrageous prices they're still fetching, I can get a '08 Mazdaspeed 3 with less than 400 (yes, hundred) miles on it for just a couple grand more than an '07 Fit with 20k miles.

So, if you've got one, how's the room inside? Is it reliable? Is it as fun to drive as 260 horses would lead one to believe?

[Acoustic Rob]

My wife drives a non-speed Mazda 3 hatchback. We got it because she has long legs (she's 5'10" and it's all leg) and Mazda makes one of the few smaller cars with enough leg room for her.

It's a nice car and has been plenty reliable, but the way the interior's laid out my right knee hits the center console. It can get a little uncomfortable in a long drive. Might not be an issue if you don't slouch like I do.

[corsair]

I don't have the speed version - couldn't wait around for it. The hatchback is reasonably roomy (but everything seems roomy after the Miata) and comfortable for a compact car - I'm six foot and I don't feel cramped. But it's not a mid-sized car or a luxury car, so as long as you don't have unreasonable expectations, I doubt you'd be disappointed. 80,000 miles and just basic maintenance and tires so far, so reliability has been good. The non-3 handles nicely - I was not disappointed with it at all (and again, that's after a Miata), the Mazdaspeed version is even better. I'd take a regular 3 over a Honda Fit any day of the week. I'd leap at a Mazdaspeed 3!

Go here for all questions 3 related:

http://www.mazda3forums.com/index.php

[Nathan]

I have an '08 MazdaSpeed3, and I love it. Reliability hasn't been a problem but then, I've only had it about a year and a half. I've taken it on a couple of 400mi drives without getting especially uncomfortable.

It's a zippy little car. I didn't understand what "torque steering" was until I drove it. It jerks a little to the right when you gun it, but it's not bad. It handles well. 260hp is a lot more than I'm ever going to need, but that says more about my tame driving than anything else. It's nice to be able to go when I have to, though.

Seating hasn't been a problem, but trunk space is a little limited. I did once fit a 7' unassembled bookcase from Target in the car, but just barely.

Anyway, I love it, but I don't know that I'm enough of a car enthusiast to say much intelligent about it other than "Wheee!".

[unbongwah]

FWIW, the Mazdaspeed 3 gets top marks from Consumer Reports and Car & Driver. How often does that happen?

[tiohn]

FWIW, the Mazdaspeed 3 gets top marks from Consumer Reports and Car & Driver. How often does that happen?

Yeah, that's what has me interested. A reliable car that does 0-60 in 5.5 seconds for under $20k? Fuck yea!

Also appears to be as safe as and more reliable than the Fit.

[unbongwah]

FYI, we had another thread (http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=36770) about sporty sedans a while back.

[Miramon]

I'm leasing a new Accord now (started in January), but I was considering one of several Mazdas, since I had one I liked a long time ago. But the salesman at the Mazda shop attempted to charge approximately double (!) the lease cost of the Accord for an equivalent or lesser Mazda over the same term, so much for them....

I'm sure the average Mazda is more fun to drive than the average Honda, "speed" type or not, but at least in this case the cost differential was obscene.

[tiohn]

Just arrived home in a 2008 Mazdaspeed 3 with 423 miles on it.

[Slothrop]

Color? Pics? Throw me a bone here! That's my dream car.

[tiohn]

It's silver.

[tiohn]

I cheered when I realized that it's got a timing chain and not a belt and just how amazingly sparse the recommended maintenance is and oil changes every 5k to 7.5k miles. I cried when I saw how much 215/45/R18 tires cost. I really had no idea. Then I hammered on the accelerator in third gear and ceased caring about tires when I realized that I've got something faster than my friends in BMWs at a fraction of the price.

[Banzai]

Zoom Zoom

[Rightbug]

Just arrived home in a 2008 Mazdaspeed 3 with 423 miles on it.

Very good move.

This month I'll pay off my non-speed Mazda three which I bought 5 years ago. It's got 99k on it and has never had a single issue. (Okay -- It wouldn't start one day but the problem magically corrected itself. So one magically self-repairing issue in 5 years.) The baseline model that I have is underpowered at higher speeds but it's zippy in hell in 1st through 3rd and handles great.

I'm going to hold onto it for another 2 or three years in the hopes that Mazda will put out a diesel version by the time I'm ready to buy my next car.

[Abilio Carvalho]

I love love love my Mazda 6 (2005 style). I almost went for a speed version, but needed a SW and they only had those in regular. Still it's got car for decades.

[Gunmetal]

I cheered when I realized that it's got a timing chain and not a belt and just how amazingly sparse the recommended maintenance is and oil changes every 5k to 7.5k miles. I cried when I saw how much 215/45/R18 tires cost. I really had no idea. Then I hammered on the accelerator in third gear and ceased caring about tires when I realized that I've got something faster than my friends in BMWs at a fraction of the price.

I've got a Mazdaspeed6, and it's just about time to get a new set of tires. I feel your pain! The Speed3 is a very nice car, congrats!

[FoRmaT]

I had an Opel Calibra 4x4 Turbo with 300~ hp. Similar to this:

http://www.marcadecoche.com/images/Opel-Calibra-Turbo11.jpg

For a while, I had worn rear tires and the 4x4 in this car is kind of fussy about different front vs. rear wheel radiuses (the rear differential makes a "bang" you can hear and feel when stepping on the brakes, something to do with the hidraulic magic that goes on in the braking/4x4 system). So, to avoid damage to the 4x4 tranny I pulled its fuse, driving on front wheel power alone. It was AWFUL. I could barely accelerate because the wheels would spin like crazy (factory 205/60ZR16, IIRC). I couldn't accelerate while going through curves. The wheels would spin on full throttle in third.

I'm really really curious about trying out a car like the Mazdaspeed 3, to see and experience how modern technology helps bring the power to the tarmac.

[Tactu]

I really loved the Mazdaspeed3 and it was in the finals along with the VW GLI. What pushed my over to the VW was the noise inthe cabin. The MS3 was unbearably loud on the freeway and since my commute is 30-60 minutes one way, I went with the car that would pamper me. Good choice though, I still love the car.

[tiohn]

I'm really really curious about trying out a car like the Mazdaspeed 3, to see and experience how modern technology helps bring the power to the tarmac.

It does it with the Rx-8's limited slip differential. The car deals with the torque steer by automatically backing off the throttle by some percentage if you hammer the throttle and then suddenly turn the wheels to one side so that you don't end up dead in a ditch.

[FoRmaT]

That sounds like too much of a compromise to really be effective on a track. I wonder how this car would do on the Nordschleife against something like a BMW 130i.

[tiohn]

You can turn the differential control business off.

[FoRmaT]

Nasty!

[Rimbo]

On my '74 Camaro, the way I dealt with torque steer was by hanging onto the steering wheel for deal life with both hands. It was effective.

[FoRmaT]

I think torque steer is not what you think it is.

It's not the phenomenon of a RWD car going sideways. It's the phenomenon of a powerful engine combined with front wheel drive, where the engine pulls so hard on the short axes that it ends up actively pulling the steering wheel to one side or the other, and you end up with the car basically going where it wants to. I used to have a Renault Clio Williams, and even that car did it all the time, with 150 horses.

[Rimbo]

It is what I thought it was, but it made no sense that I would remember it occurring on my '74 Camaro. Clearly my memory has gone bad.

My solution still works though. :)

[FoRmaT]

Yeah. But what happened in your Chevy isn't called torque steering. It's called Awesome American Muscle :)

[Rimbo]

Yeah. But what happened in your Chevy isn't called torque steering. It's called Awesome American Muscle :)

:D :D :D

If the front wheels aren't lined up just so, yeah, you could end up pushing them into a turn. But that's definitely not torque steer, you're right.

Actually its 0-60 time was pathetic; realistically it was lucky to get there in 7 seconds (downhill, with strong tailwind). It was an old car by the time I got my paws on it. It got to 30 in a real hurry, though.

Since then I've owned 2 front-wheel-drive cars and a 4WD. 4WD is the best. I feel like I'm driving only half a car driving anything else now, especially when cornering.

[FoRmaT]

7 seconds is fast.

The Calibra Turbo I mentioned I had comes with 204 factory-hp, and does the 0-100kmh sprint in 6.2 seconds. Anything under 8 seconds is awesome.

4WD is indeed fun to drive once you get used to it. It took me a while to get used to the very neutral handling it offers. The switch from under- to oversteer was interesting to learn to predict and control.

Worst handling? The MR2 I had. On the second or third day I had it, I nearly crashed it when I dared to accelerate while going through a roundabout. The car's ass suddenly wanted to go twice as fast as the front... I was lucky that I got it on track again. Since then, I badly mistrusted that car.

[Anti-Bunny]

You can turn the differential control business off.

This, turning it off is pretty noticeable when I used to take my RX-8 to the autocross meet. Leaving it on is like easy mode.

[FoRmaT]

The RX-8 is RWD though, isn't it?

[Anti-Bunny]

The RX-8 is RWD though, isn't it?

Yes, true. Sorry, I can't really speak for front wheel drive cars, I never really pushed my previous FWD cars all that hard.

[Rimbo]

7 seconds is fast.

The Calibra Turbo I mentioned I had comes with 204 factory-hp, and does the 0-100kmh sprint in 6.2 seconds. Anything under 8 seconds is awesome.

It was more likely to do 8-10 seconds (not downhill and no tailwind). But my current car can do 6-ish easily, and if I really wanted to abuse the transmission could probably get it to do less than that. C&D (http://www.caranddriver.com/) got a 2002 WRX sedan to 60 in 5.4 seconds at one point. Prior to that I owned a 1996 Integra GS-R (which I believe is relevant to our earlier discussion of torque steer) which hit the low 7s and high 6s, assuming a good driver.

4WD is indeed fun to drive once you get used to it. It took me a while to get used to the very neutral handling it offers. The switch from under- to oversteer was interesting to learn to predict and control.

It took time. Plus, there's the learning curve of having to figure out just when the turbo would kick in. (I still haven't figured it out, after 6 years of driving it. Which is part of what keeps it so much fun!)

Worst handling? The MR2 I had. On the second or third day I had it, I nearly crashed it when I dared to accelerate while going through a roundabout. The car's ass suddenly wanted to go twice as fast as the front... I was lucky that I got it on track again. Since then, I badly mistrusted that car.

Eewww. That's odd, because MR2 drivers I've known have praised that car's handling. What you're experiencing there we call "fish-tailing," and it's something that can happen with oversteering RWD cars like the MR2. I experienced the same thing in my '74 Camaro. I eventually learned to control it and use it to my advantage (and to my passengers' extreme horror) to shoot through residential corners at high speed. But only a couple of times... it IS scary. The trick is to keep the front wheels pointed in the direction you want to go. And in the hands of a truly experienced stunt driver (not me) the rear-end swing can be done indefinitely.

All in all, I prefer 4WD. There's something about the way a 4WD car can power through turns -- no oversteer, no understeer, just carve out the curve you want to follow with the accelerator.

[Union Carbide]

The MR2 is a mid engine/rear drive car, which can catch people out that are used to FF or FR cars.

[Bill Dungsroman]

N+0

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Dictionary: small

Version: 15/10/08

[tiohn]

Yeah, good one. Guess I kind of paved the way with that one.

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/281171/dildungsroman.htm

[FoRmaT]

The MR2 is a mid engine/rear drive car, which can catch people out that are used to FF or FR cars.

Yep. If you push it too hard with a FF car, you let go of the throttle and the car pretty much corrects itself. An MR2 does little to forgive driving errors.

[eliandi]

Depends on how much you have over-cooked the corner. Most cars have suspensions set for understeer. If you have only slightly overcooked the corner in a FF car and release the gas, the car's rear steps into place, and then you can feed back in some gas.. If you have significantly overshot your corner, you can release the gas but you will continue to understeer until you hit something or slow down enough to regain control. If its close a desperation measure is to add throttle to try to pull the front around.

A FF car set up for racing/rallying/etc will quickly transition into oversteer when you release the gas mid-corner. This allows the driver to throw it into the corner hard and then bring the tail around as needed.

Mid-engine cars like the MR2 have excellent agility because they do not possess much weight at the extremities (polar inertia) to slow the rotation. This makes them excellent handling, but can snap-spin if you are not careful.

[eliandi]

That sounds like too much of a compromise to really be effective on a track. I wonder how this car would do on the Nordschleife against something like a BMW 130i.

Modern BMWs, with the exception of the M's, also use an "e-diff" to limit power to the driven wheels for various reasons. For RWD cars, its usually to control yaw and/or rear wheelspin. For FWD its to control front wheelspin and toque-steer.

Basically an e-diff is using the traction/stability control CPU to activate individual wheel brakes and/or engine power.

For automakers, software is cheaper than the hardware. For most car drivers, the e-diffs work great. For motor-heads and racers, e-diffs have significant disadvantages.

[FoRmaT]

A FF car set up for racing/rallying/etc will quickly transition into oversteer when you release the gas mid-corner.

Correct. My Clio Williams did that. Boy I loved that car!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2262/2244375536_942f425d36_o.jpg

[FoRmaT]

Modern BMWs, with the exception of the M's, also use an "e-diff" to limit power to the driven wheels for various reasons. For RWD cars, its usually to control yaw and/or rear wheelspin. For FWD its to control front wheelspin and toque-steer.

Basically an e-diff is using the traction/stability control CPU to activate individual wheel brakes and/or engine power.

For automakers, software is cheaper than the hardware. For most car drivers, the e-diffs work great. For motor-heads and racers, e-diffs have significant disadvantages.

Aha. I had an Opel Astra G 2.0 16V that I swapped for the MR2 after a week, and that car had some kind of traction control. I tried it in a few bends but didn't like it a lot, so I always had it off. I prefer screeching wheels :D

[tiohn]

Doubling back to a bar I was drinking at this evening because I saw another Mazdaspeed 3 in the parking lot earned me the opportunity to participate in a program on campus to develop and build a hybrid formula car. This year's car is expected to pull 1.5 Gs on a skidpad and run 0-60 in 3 seconds. I will get to see the car tomorrow.