Heart Disease Beaten, or We are all going to live forever!

[Jon Rowe]

Interesting Article I saw, I thought I would share. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8076556.stm)

The tomato pill contains an active ingredient from the Mediterranean diet - lycopene - that blocks "bad" LDL cholesterol that can clog the arteries.
Ateronon, made by a biotechnology spin-out company of Cambridge University, is being launched as a dietary supplement and will be sold on the high street.

Experts said more trials were needed to see how effective the treatment is.
Preliminary trials involving around 150 people with heart disease indicate that Ateronon can reduce the oxidation of harmful fats in the blood to almost zero within eight weeks, a meeting of the British Cardiovascular Society will be told at Ateronon's launch on Monday.

Neuroscientist Peter Kirkpatrick, who will lead a further research project at Addenbrooke's Hospital in Cambridge on behalf of Cambridge Theranostics Ltd, said the supplement could be much more effective than statin drugs that are currently used by doctors to treat high cholesterol.

[Tyjenks]

So will I need to take this in addition to or in place of fish oil as I slide firmly into middle age?

[Jon Rowe]

No, these are just preliminary tests, but they seem to be much more legitimate than the "eat this herbal supplement and get better" as these have actual clinical trials with actual results. People have been pushing lycopene for years, and apparently this will be a good replacement for statins, (which some people can have issues with).

SCIENCE!

[arctangent]

Or you can just eat tomatoes and drink tomato juice and stop eating the bad fat.

NATURE!

[Eightball]

Or you can just eat tomatoes and drink tomato juice and stop eating the bad fat.

NATURE!



Lycopene is an antioxidant contained in the skin of tomatoes which gives them their red colour. But lycopene ingested in its natural form is poorly absorbed.

Ateronon contains a refined, more readily absorbed version of lycopene that was originally developed by Nestle.

READING THE ARTICLE!

(Though in general, you're right ;))

[WarrenM]

Didn't Alton Brown say something about how olive oil helps the body get the lycopene from tomatoes much easier? It was something like that. Hence the reason the two are so intertwined in most Mediterranean dishes.

[Jon Rowe]

Doctors do recommend the "Mediterranean diet" which consists of tomatoes and olive oil and other things (as well as just eating better) so that makes some sense.

[Jon Rowe]

Or you can just eat tomatoes and drink tomato juice and stop eating the bad fat.

NATURE!

Tecnically this is a natural supplement. So this is "NATURE" but you do have a point. This coupled with eating better will be the best way to go.

Even eating healthy doesn't give 100% of the benefits from this drug. You would still be susceptible to the bad cholesterol build-up.

[Flowers]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gac

I give unto thee, the fru-its of lon-gevity!

Actually, if any of you people read ketchup bottles, you'd know that ketchup is a good source of lycopene.

[Hanzii]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gac

I give unto thee, the fru-its of lon-gevity!

Actually, if any of you people read ketchup bottles, you'd know that ketchup is a good source of lycopene.

And sugar.

[wisefool]

It's probably HFCS in the USA.

[Larinson]

I'm not particularly religious, but if there is then he gets two thumbs up for hiding the cure to heart disease* in a tomato.



* Yes, yes we all know it's not the cure to all heart disease.

[Matthew Gallant]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0e/Big_o.jpg

[Jakub]

Or... just eat tomatoes?

[balut]

I'm mildly allergic to raw tomatoes. Does that mean I miss out on the immortality wagon?

[Acid]

I'm mildly allergic to raw tomatoes. Does that mean I miss out on the immortality wagon?
You're the walking dead.

[balut]

You're the walking dead.

Damn, my cholesterol levels are going to go to shit with an all-brain diet.

[Skipper]

Damn, my cholesterol levels are going to go to shit with an all-brain diet.

Just mix Tomato eater brain with some olive oil, problem solved.

[Miramon]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0e/Big_o.jpg

And just what was the deal with tomatoes in that series? Maybe I missed an episode or something? Are they considered to be evil or something in Japan? Seems unlikely....

[Skipper]

*orders more bacon*

[Sarkus]

Now I'm torn! The book I read that claimed you had to eat a diet based on your blood type insists that tomatoes are the worst things ever, regardless of blood type. Now what do I do?

:-)

[balut]

Now I'm torn! The book I read that claimed you had to eat a diet based on your blood type insists that tomatoes are the worst things ever, regardless of blood type. Now what do I do?

Just mix Tomato eater brain with some olive oil, problem solved.

Do what I have to do now - eat the brains of people that eat tomatoes. Mmm...braaaiiiins....

[Jon Rowe]

Brains are pretty high on cholesterol... thought I don't know which kind.

That does explain the Boomer.

[Flowers]

And sugar.

There ain't no better source of sugar than you, honey child!

[krayzkrok]

The solution is simple: just eat a generally healthy diet, don't binge on the bad stuff (but enjoy it occasionally), exercise regularly and stop worrying about the details. That way you'll enjoy your life and die when you die, and you won't have to worry about whether eating tomatoes really made a difference.

If you really want to worry, consider this. No matter what you do with your health, you might be... dum dum dum... an OUTLIER! All that effort wasted.

[strummer]

I'm mildly allergic to raw tomatoes. Does that mean I miss out on the immortality wagon?

Actually, cooked tomatoes are better for you in regards to the lycopene than raw tomatoes, if I recall correctly (if I wasn't heading out the door I would try out my new Bing-fu and find some links to support, or refute, my statement).

EDIT: Ok, I took the time:
American Cancer Society page on Lycopene (http://www.cancer.org/docroot/ETO/content/ETO_5_3X_Lycopene.asp)
Chart comparing Vitamin Levels in Raw vs Cooked Foods (http://www.beyondveg.com/tu-j-l/raw-cooked/raw-cooked-2f.shtml)
Obligatory Lycopene Wiki Page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lycopene)

[Bahimiron]

Actually, if any of you people read ketchup bottles, you'd know that ketchup is a good source of lycopene.

Canned tomatoes actually have more lycopene than fresh tomatoes.

As shown in the burn thread, lycopene is the ultimate cure all.

I ate ten pounds of raw lycopene and now I'm a highlander.

[Jag]

I ate ten pounds of raw lycopene and now I'm a highlander.

There can be only one.

http://www.ifc.com/news/images/07012008_attackofthekillertomatoes.jpg

[balut]

Actually, cooked tomatoes are better for you in regards to the lycopene than raw tomatoes, if I recall correctly (if I wasn't heading out the door I would try out my new Bing-fu and find some links to support, or refute, my statement).

EDIT: Ok, I took the time:
American Cancer Society page on Lycopene (http://www.cancer.org/docroot/ETO/content/ETO_5_3X_Lycopene.asp)
Chart comparing Vitamin Levels in Raw vs Cooked Foods (http://www.beyondveg.com/tu-j-l/raw-cooked/raw-cooked-2f.shtml)
Obligatory Lycopene Wiki Page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lycopene)

Awesome. SUCK IT, RAW TOMATOES!

[Jon Rowe]

The solution is simple: just eat a generally healthy diet, don't binge on the bad stuff (but enjoy it occasionally), exercise regularly and stop worrying about the details. That way you'll enjoy your life and die when you die, and you won't have to worry about whether eating tomatoes really made a difference.

If you really want to worry, consider this. No matter what you do with your health, you might be... dum dum dum... an OUTLIER! All that effort wasted.

But, there are people genetically pre-disposed to heart problems and something that can reduce build up of plaque in the arteries like this really could do wonders.

[WildElf]

We've been beating heart disease for 60 years without a magic tomato pill.

And considering LDL colesteral is useless for reducing heart disease (http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/569071), I'm not really seeing all the benefit except for advertising with another fly-by-night media health sensational news story.

[Aeon221]

http://www.filmjunk.com/images/weblog/killertomatoesremake.jpg

[Jon Rowe]

We've been beating heart disease for 60 years without a magic tomato pill.

And considering LDL colesteral is useless for reducing heart disease (http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/569071), I'm not really seeing all the benefit except for advertising with another fly-by-night media health sensational news story.

I don't have medscape. Can you tell me what it is in your link that disproves all scientific logic so far?

From the American Heart Association (http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4488)

What is LDL cholesterol?
Low-density lipoprotein is the major cholesterol carrier in the blood. If too much LDL cholesterol circulates in the blood, it can slowly build up in the walls of the arteries feeding the heart and brain. Together with other substances it can form plaque, a thick, hard deposit that can clog those arteries. This condition is known as atherosclerosis. A clot (thrombus) that forms near this plaque can block the blood flow to part of the heart muscle and cause a heart attack. If a clot blocks the blood flow to part of the brain, a stroke results. A high level of LDL cholesterol (160 mg/dL and above) reflects an increased risk of heart disease. If you have heart disease, your LDL cholesterol should be less than 100 mg/dL and your doctor may even set your goal to be less than 70 mg/dL. That's why LDL cholesterol is called "bad" cholesterol. Lower levels of LDL cholesterol reflect a lower risk of heart disease.

[WildElf]

I don't have medscape. Can you tell me what it is in your link that disproves all scientific logic so far?

Weird, I can't access it now either. Here's an article that covers the same topic as the article, with some different research from the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons: LDL Cholesterol:
“Bad” Cholesterol, or Bad Science? (http://www.jpands.org/vol10no3/colpo.pdf) This article also points to some research that shows where the real problem lies: oxidization.

First of all, it doesn't disprove any scientific logic because there is no "scientific logic" that supports a causative link between cholesterol and heart disease. There's a lot of studies that have mixed results, often questionable surveys, and even more conclusions that have been jumped to. Most of all, I usually see press releases that flat out ignore the scientific conclusions and trump up statistically insignificant differences to push an agenda.

The main problem is the old correlation does not imply causation, and it's a huge problem in health and food reporting and pop science (the research is pretty clear). There are so many news stories going around based on bad or no science, but on "common sense" instead. And with all the news agencies feeding off the same small pool or sources for stories, one bad report gets parrotted across the globe. As a result, public and private agencies and programs are heavily influenced by them since it's something "everyone knows" based on the assumption that since the story was about science, then the conclusions in the story are science.

To be fair, most agencies are just trying to play it safe, like the FDA cautions on the limits of fish for the mercury scare. If it appears to be a problem for some people, then they put up some guidelines. They give guidelines on risk factors just in case they prove to be causative. Since determining a "risk factor" is highly subjective, we can end up with a lot of back and forth and confusion, and ultimately like anything subjective, it settles on popular assumptions (or what a particular special interest group funding the risk factor research chooses to focus on in their press release when the research is done).

Anyway, the jist of the article is that when you actually measure the LDL in populations and people with coronary heart disease, you do not find any evidence of causation. Absolutely none. If anything, its just as often that people with CHD have consistently lower LDL levels.

There is some evidence that cholesteral does play a role in measuring health. But recent thinking says that it's not a causative one. Instead, cholesteral levels are like a fever. It is a signal that something is already wrong. Treating the fever might be warranted in certain cases, but it does not cure the underlying ailment.

[Jon Rowe]

The thing is, correlation is pretty much all people have to go by when it comes to medical research

Techinically smoking doesn't cause lung cancer as there hasn't been a definitive causitive link found. We just have to rely on the large amount of correlative data.

But that article is something to think about.