Dear whomever motherfuckers that live across the street from me AKA me whining at Qt3

[tiohn]

Fuck it. I was trying to write some sort of meaningful introduction, but I just can't.

I came home tonight after drinking a few beers with a good friend, pulled into the driveway, and got out of the car. Across the street, I hear a dog barking at me, which is odd, because the old guy that lives there usually keeps his dog inside. I look over and see his dog, which is in his unfenced front yard. Having seen his dog a few times and knowing that it's still a puppy and probably not very well kept (it lives in the fucking garage), I go ahead and crouch down and do the excited "come here, boy!" along with the kissy noises, not expecting anything but for it to continue barking. Imagine my shock when it actually barrels towards me and ends up practically in my arms, overjoyed at being petted and paid attention to. As I pet and scratch the dog all over, I realize that it's a full-blooded, unneutered pitbull puppy. So I immediately check his ears, only to find that they're poorly healed from where they've clipped (people that clip dogs' ears or tails deserve a special place in hell). He's also got several other sores on his body and looks genrally emaciated.

I regret having done it now, but I did what I thought was right and went across the street and knocked on the door. Knowing that they guy that lives there is very old, I wasn't sure what to expect, but no one answered. Knowing that I really couldn't keep the dog at my house since he had fleas and who knows what else and I didn't want to begin to risk the health of our two dogs and our daughter, I conferred with my wife and we determined that ever though it was 3:30 in the morning, I should go ahead and wake up our neighbors that live next to the house in question since they have 5 dogs and ask them if they knew what the fuck was going on. After some awkward yelling through their door that I wasn't there to kill them, they immediately recognized the dog as Max. After trying to call the last known number for the house next door and getting a nonexistent number, they told me that the only times Max ever gets food or water is when they sneak over and give him some and that animal control had already taken one of the those people's dogs away and if they were I, they would get Max the hell out of there and not ever mention it again.

I returned home and had my wife look up a number for an emergency vet in hopes that I could give him up to them. I called the nearest one and they informed me that they only took injured animals, so I told the girl about the sores and how he had just eaten and drank the food and water we gave him like it was the first time he'd ever seen them and she told me to go ahead and bring him in. This whole time, Max is just utterly fucking thrilled to have me petting and scratching him and has the absolute sweetest look on his face. So I put Max in my car, where he calmly and patiently sits in the back seat, and drive him to the emergency clinic. The young ladies that work the front immediately took him and lavished love upon him, while giving me a form to fill out. The girl that handed me the form told me not to worry and that they'd everything they could to find the owner. I told her that I really hoped they didn't considering how skinny he was and the sores, etc, and she told me that she had just given me a line because in his shape, they weren't going to try at all and were instead going to try to find him a new home. I thanked her and wrote down a bogus name and address and informed them that I found Max several miles from my home. I hope that Max finds a very good home where he is loved and appreciated as the absolutely beautiful and good-natured dog that he is. It pains me a lot to not be able take him in myself, but I know I've made the right choice. I hope the people across the street rot in hell.

[Equis]

I thanked her and wrote down a bogus name and address and informed them that I found Max several miles from my home.

Sorry, not being accusatory or anything, but why would you do this?

Also, good on you for rescuing that dog.

[tiohn]

The last thing I need is for the people across the street to somehow find the dog and also find out that I'm the one who took him to the vet. My main line of thinking was telling the vet that I found him somewhere else to minimize the chances that my neighbors would somehow find him.

[Talisker]

You did right by that dog. Kudos to you.

Also: paragraphs are your friend, there's no reason to fear them!

[tiohn]

I've had too much to drink since arriving back home for paragraphs.

[bloo]

Well done!

[kerzain]

You know what's really funny? The Old Guy that owns Max is probably dead and won't be discovered for a month, and you just gave away his dog.

[WarrenM]

Good on you, tiohn! People who mistreat their pets really do deserve a special place in hell.

[jerri blank]

You know what's really funny? The Old Guy that owns Max is probably dead and won't be discovered for a month, and you just gave away his dog.

If the old guy is really dead, it's a damned good thing tiohn got him on the road to a new home.

I've considered "liberating" the St. Bernard my next-door neighbors keep chained up 24-7. They're a kindly older couple, but they bit off more than they could chew with a dog that size. Either that, or the landlord told them the dog had to stay outside. He's sweet but poorly socialized.

[FoRmaT]

And how's that your business?

I don't want suffering animals, but AFAIK having a dog on a chain is not a crime. In Germany, you must have a chain that glides along a metal cable, though, that costs ~20€ I think.

I've had a dog until she died at the age of about 11-12 years. We had a big, walled-in piece of land, and whenever we were at home, the door was open and she could run around inside or outside, and when we left, we usually had her inside. She was never chained up. But not everybody has the posibility of letting their dog run around the whole day...

In your neighbour's case, I think that unless that dog is on a static chain that's only two meters long, you can't complain.

[krayzkrok]

Good work, tiohn. We had a neighbour once who did something similar, only he left them on a chain for days on end without feeding them (he'd go away for up to a week at a time). These dogs got progressively thinner and more miserable, and in fact we ended up going over there a few times ourselves to feed them. We were on the verge of reporting this to the RSPCA when they both disappeared. His next dog, about six months later, was chained to the balcony overlooking his block... and ours. It was some distance away, but not enough to stop us from hearing woof..woof..woof..woof..woof..woof 24/7. This poor dog was bored out of its brain and had nothing to do but bark its throat raw every day. We saw it getting progressively thinner and thinner, and again we were on the brink of going over to free it when it managed to slip its leash and escape. A neighbour quickly found it wandering the street and, after hearing our story about its owner, took it to the animal shelter. We never mentioned it to the neighbour, and apart from 2 mins calling the dog's name a few days later, he probably never cared. Fortunately he never got another dog, and moved interstate a few weeks afterwards.

We figured he bought the dogs to guard his property, but he forgot that they were living creatures that needed a certain degree of human input (ie. feeding, attention). They were so starving that they'd have licked any potential thief to death who offered them a bite to eat.

[Angie Gallant]

The people who lived across the alley from the house that I grew up in used to keep a lab on a chain. She snapped her neck on it trying to chase things for entertainment. There was also a Rottie at the animal shelter I used to volunteer for who was kept in a choke collar on a chain. The owners never switched from a puppy collar to an adult collar, so her neck grew over the collar and was slowly killing her before she was rescued. It took 3 surgeries to liberate her from that collar, and she can't bark and has to eat soft wet food. Luckily she found a good home, and despite her awful start in life she's been a sweet and devoted dog.

I hate chains.

[FoRmaT]

choke collar

Is that what I think it is? A collar that tightens when the dog pulls at it? Gross.

[Angie Gallant]

Yes. The one in question was also made of chain.

[Midnight Son]

OP is a mensch. Well done.

[nlanza]

Nicely done, tiohn.

Must have been a huge pain in the ass to deal with that at 3:30AM, but I'm glad you did.

[Bahimiron]

And how's that your business?

Keeping most dogs outside all the time on a chain is cruelty. All dogs are fairly social animals, some more than others, and some dogs are more appropriate for being kept outdoors than others, but those dogs that are are outdoorsy because of a need to run, so keeping them on a chain is purposeless to keeping them outdoors. Not that any of that applies to a Saint Bernard, which are indoor, often even apartment appropriate dogs that need only a little exercise but need maximum interaction with their owners.

When you get a dog, you make a commitment. You're adding someone to your family. If you can't treat them the way they need to be treated, you shouldn't get a dog at all. Different dogs of different breeds, or mixes of various breeds, have differing needs, but every dog deserves a human who has some degree of understanding of what they want, and puts forth to effort to see to it that they're socialized with their owners, other dogs, other humans and, when appropriate, children and other types of animals.

Oh, and I am absolute agreement with an unrecognized statement in tiohn's original post. If you dock an animal's ears or tail, you should fucking fry. There is no good reason to do so, unless that body part becomes infected and can't be cured otherwise. These days the only purpose is to match 'breed standard', which is a bullshit notion created by humans with an asinine interest in maintaining some sort of demented aesthetic quality which only matters to other humans with the same bullshit notions. I love dogs, I hate purebred enthusiasts. Get your pet spayed or neutered and disband the AKC.

[Rimbo]

tiohn: You done good, man.

[tiohn]

I hate chains.
I didn't mention that Max was on a choke collar as well. His neck was rubbed raw from it.

[FoRmaT]

If you can't treat them the way they need to be treated, you shouldn't get a dog at all.

Agreed.

[Daly]

@tiohn: well done

[jerri blank]

And how's that your business?

It's my business because it is the moral duty of beings capable of higher-order thinking to be concerned about and address cruelty to animals. As bahimiron pointed out, it IS cruel to keep a dog isolated by a chain 24/7, in all kinds of weather, with little to no human interaction. In my neighbors' case, I think they're ignorant rather than cruel, and I may at least ask animal control to talk to them about the way he's tied up (not on an overhead cable, as is required in this county).

[Pogo]

I keep my dog on a 60 foot runner, and he's outside for 24/7. The runner leads up to the well pump which has an outlet that trickles water into a pail constantly (it's always full with fresh water). I let my dog off for at least 2 hours a day, play catch, sometimes go on a walk, and of course feed him every day. He doesn't get as much interaction with other dogs as I would like, but he does like to make trips down the hill sometimes to play with other dogs (without my consent of course, I have to go get him).

So, am I being cruel? I feel bad sometimes that he can't come in the house, but he's well nourished and I hope he's getting enough attention from me. He also has very thick fur and the winters aren't all that harsh in NC as it is. I then see examples where people keep their dogs locked up all the time, with rare feeding/water intervals, and no vet care or socialization because they don't "feel" like dealing with the dog... and I pretty much draw the line there at cruelty.

One thing about that weather comment, is that dog's don't sit there thinking "man this rain sucks." If they have no dog house and they get rained on to the point where their skin is soaked through, then I could see the dog actually feeling bad. Otherwise, what constitutes cruelty to some people in some cases really isn't actually doing anything detrimental to the dog. The fact that my dog is outside 24/7 (he has a dog house of course) gets some people to give me that look like "that's soooo mean."

[Dave Markell]

You earned many hero points today, tiohn.

[Mr_PeaCH]

Oh, and I am absolute agreement with an unrecognized statement in tiohn's original post. If you dock an animal's ears or tail, you should fucking fry. There is no good reason to do so, unless that body part becomes infected and can't be cured otherwise. These days the only purpose is to match 'breed standard', which is a bullshit notion created by humans with an asinine interest in maintaining some sort of demented aesthetic quality which only matters to other humans with the same bullshit notions. I love dogs, I hate purebred enthusiasts. Get your pet spayed or neutered and disband the AKC.


Hmm. I think back to my favorite dog ever, a 3/4 Aussie Shepherd and 1/4 German Shepherd. My grampa got him as a puppy to work with him on his farm. He told me the tail was 'docked' because it would otherwise become tangled with all of the nettles and grassburrs in the pastures while following us around all day long. I just took him at his word and I'm sure it wasn't for trying to match a standard, for appearances, etc. I can't say that I ever thought the dog missed his tail and I'm pretty sure he led the sort of life all dogs lead in every other way in never being leashed or chained up a day in his life while chasing birds and squirrels and livestock all over the Texas countryside.

I actually don't disagree with you in principle (AKC crap) but I'm thinking the rule doesn't apply always 100%.

[Rimbo]

If ever there were a tail that needed docking, it was on the old yellow lab we had when I was a teenager. She'd wag her whole body and whip that thing around like a weapon, knocking over anything that wasn't nailed down ... plants, furniture, small children, whatever.

We left the tail as it was.

[espressojim]

If ever there were a tail that needed docking, it was on the old yellow lab we had when I was a teenager. She'd wag her whole body and whip that thing around like a weapon, knocking over anything that wasn't nailed down ... plants, furniture, small children, whatever.

We left the tail as it was.

I'd never heard of "docking" a tail until now. I hadn't heard about debarking until recently either. People are amazingly cruel to their pets.

Right now I'm puppy sitting my 7 month old black lab (rescue pup we adpoted in feburary.) We're in a bit of a scare right now as he's had runny poo 4-5 times today and thrown up twice. We're encouraging him to drink water and watching his behavior - he may have finally gotten whatever he got into his system yesterday out (we visited relatives, and kids may have fed him things that were too rich,etc) in the last hour or so, as he his digestive problems may have finally calmed down.

We've already called the local 24-hour vet, gotten advice on how to hydrate our pup, and know that if he doesn't improve this afternoon, we can take him in any time this evening for immediate care.

I don't understand what the point of having a dog is, if he isn't going to be your best friend. Our dog goes with us on trips, and life is more fun because we share our experiences with him. I imagine it's somewhat like having our own child (though I'd by no means trivialize things down to dog=baby), in that you have a renewed freshness of appreciation for things you take for granted.

[Rimbo]

Before I had a kid, I thought having a kid would be a lot like having a dog, only more so. It's not. The two things are very different.

But a dog is definitely an integral part of a family. I won't be getting a dog until I'm sure my son will be old enough to understand that and help take care of it.

[Bahimiron]

Actually, I apologize for my earlier tone. There really is never an excuse to dock a dog's ears, but there are some working dogs, especially herding dogs, who benefit from a shortening of the tail. Welsh Corgis, for instance, herd things that are far taller than them. If they had their full tail, the likelyhood of injury from it being trampled or caught in a gate would be significantly increased.

However, for any pet, there's no excuse.

It's hard to say whether or not a dog misses its tail. We have no real corollary. Dogs have tails for a reason, though. They may learn to live without it when it comes to balance or steering or whatever, but no matter how you look at it, it's amputation of something nature or Jesus or evolution or what the fuck ever saw fit to give them. Dogs see, hear, smell and otherwise experience the world in ways different from us and the experience of having or losing a tail is something we just can't understand.

Ears, though. The theory is that pricked ears help dogs like rotties and dobermans hear better, but working labs show all the time that lop ears don't harm a dog's hearing at all. The real reason most 'working' guard dogs get docked ears is because a doberman with prick ears...

http://www.mydogbreed.com/images/doberman-pinscher.jpg

...is thought to be more intimidating looking than a doberman with natural ears...

http://www.worldofstock.com/slides/PPT1731.jpg

Which is understandable. I mean, look at the guy in that second picture. AWWW! HE'S SO CUTE!

And hey, professional breeders will assure you that trimming the ears doesn't hurt at all and isn't traumatic. Which may be true. Studies show that puppies cry during the procedure, but that they're alright pretty quickly afterward. What no breeders comment on is the convalescence period, which is where shit can go super wrong, super bad. I mean, look at this...

http://www.doginfopedia.com/images/doberman-ears.jpg

Yeah, the puppy's pretty much got to wear an ear-cast for the next four to eight weeks. How could that possibly go wrong?

[MattKeil]

I'd never heard of "docking" a tail until now. I hadn't heard about debarking until recently either. People are amazingly cruel to their pets.

Some people just don't seem to understand that animals are alive and feeling creatures. Or maybe they do and just don't care. When I was a kid I'd always hear about families who moved and had to leave their cat or dog behind, and it still blows my mind that people are able to do that. Even worse are the ones who don't even give the animal to another family (especially common with cats) and just leave it to roam the neighborhood after they move away.

You did the right thing, tiohn. Hopefully the dog finds a home with people who deserve it.

[WarrenM]

My parents had friends when I was young and we would baby sit their kids from time to time. They had a dog that they kept tied up in their basement in the laundry room, 24/7. That dog was bored out of it's mind and always looked sad and lonely. I fucking hated going over there and wished every day that he would escape and run away.

Some people are too god damned stupid to have a dog.

[jpinard]

tiohn, your story warmed my heart today. Thanks.

[Ranulf]

So I immediately check his ears, only to find that they're poorly healed from where they've clipped (people that clip dogs' ears or tails deserve a special place in hell).

Meh, people who blanketly condemn ear/tail docking etc. are not thinking too hard.

/aside off the wall rant
I imagine there also some anti-docking types that are pro circumcision for their son/future son. Thankfully I've not run into anyone like that but I can just imagine the pretzel twists of logic they might use to justify it (the non religious folks anyway). "Oh its just cruel to do that to a poor dog! Leave it as it was intended!" 30 minutes later, "Oh, but I really think we should circumsize our son after he's born. I don't want him to feel weird compared to the other boys in the locker room or to look different from his father" or the new version, "well, it will help reduce STD transmission, possibly and maybe reduce cervical cancer due to STDs too!".
/endrant

[Bahimiron]

Meh, people who blanketly condemn ear/tail docking etc. are not thinking too hard.

...he said, before bothering to read the rest of the thread!

I imagine there also some anti-docking types that are pro circumcision for their son/future son.

...he said, without bothering to read the rest of the forum!

[FoRmaT]

Thankfully I've not run into anyone like that

Or else?

Did I come across as crazy as that when we talked about circumcision, or just as an ass?

[nlanza]

Some people just don't seem to understand that animals are alive and feeling creatures. Or maybe they do and just don't care. When I was a kid I'd always hear about families who moved and had to leave their cat or dog behind, and it still blows my mind that people are able to do that. Even worse are the ones who don't even give the animal to another family (especially common with cats) and just leave it to roam the neighborhood after they move away.

Yeah, I just don't understand those people.

I used to have a cat that I'd adopted from a friend whose family needed to move somewhere that didn't allow pets, and it just killed him to have to give his cat up.

It was incredibly important to him that someone be able to take care of the cat that he'd had for twelve years, and it was clearly really really difficult for him to actually give her up.

I don't think I could do it, though. I have four cats and a dog, and anywhere that won't let me keep my pets is not somewhere I'm willing to live for pretty much any reason short of absolute catastrophe.

People who casually discard their pets deserve to end up homeless and alone so they can see how it feels.

[Enidigm]

I think there are people who see pets as sort of cartoon characterizations of animals; not actually complicated, unique living things with needs and emotions, but two-dimensional objects with nothing in common with human beings. Sort of those pictures of a high school bulldog mascot with it's slobbering tongue and big teeth being all they think about, when and if they think about an animal at all.