The Ballad of Gay Tony

[fuzzyslug]

RockStar just announced the next bit of DLC for GTA4 (http://www.joystiq.com/2009/05/26/rockstar-announces-gta-the-ballad-of-gay-tony-coming-to-xbox-l/). Oddly enough, it'll come on disc too, apparently without the need for GTA4 (and along with the first bit of DLC).

[Telefrog]

http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showpost.php?p=1748507&postcount=362

[Jon Rowe]

I think this is more of an official thread as well.

[zengonzo]

Um, wow .. I hadn't seen this, or anyone post on this .. But I just caught an ad for the Ballad of Gay Tony in another person's link, and damn if it doesn't include some interesting footage, particularly around the one-minute mark ..

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/debut-trailer-gta-iv/55294


That's some pretty compelling stuff.

[Rock8man]

Yeah, I saw that trailer on Xbox Live the other day. Excellent trailer. It really makes me want the game. I'll have to go back and actually play The Lost and the Damned too some time.

[zengonzo]

I really dig that it's going to be a standalone disc, too, seeing as I got the PS3 version of IV. Didn't miss a thing!

[Hanacker]

Any relation to Toni Gay? (http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=54625)

[Rock8man]

I really dig that it's going to be a standalone disc, too, seeing as I got the PS3 version of IV. Didn't miss a thing!

Yeah, that is really smart of them. That way they get to sell it at retail, sell to people who already sold back their copy of GTA IV, and sell to people who bought the PS3 version of the original.

[Royal Fool]

Rockstar hasn't made an announcement for a PS3 version of the Episodes disc. So far, retailers are only listing the Xbox 360 version.

[Rock8man]

Rockstar hasn't made an announcement for a PS3 version of the Episodes disc. So far, retailers are only listing the Xbox 360 version.

Right. Zengonzo was saying he bought the PS3 version of the original, and now he can buy the standalone disc of the 360 episodes and doesn't need to own the original to play it.

[zengonzo]

And here I was complaining that the DLC wasn't adding to the main game .. I'd still prefer that, anyhow.

Digging the winched helicopter and fight club scenarios, too. Hope that's stuff we can play dynamically and not just in-mission.

[Royal Fool]

Right. Zengonzo was saying he bought the PS3 version of the original, and now he can buy the standalone disc of the 360 episodes and doesn't need to own the original to play it.

Ah, right, I totally misunderstood that. Didn't realize he was talking about playing it on his Xbox!

[Telefrog]

After my disappointment with the base game, TLAD was a complete surprise. Better missions, less friend management, and no part of the city was locked off. Totally worth it.

I'm very excited for this DLC.

[zengonzo]

Darn. Looks like GameFly just isn't going to be carrying it.

Ah, well. I'm a junky.

[Marcin]

After my disappointment with the base game, TLAD was a complete surprise. Better missions, less friend management, and no part of the city was locked off. Totally worth it.

Is the hivemind in agreement with this? I'd love to go back to Liberty City but only for better (i.e. uncrippled with stilted storylin, ridiculous friend management and horrible minigames) gameplay. They didn't by any chance throw in any fun sidemissions, did they ... ? :/

[Rock8man]

Darn. Looks like GameFly just isn't going to be carrying it.

Ah, well. I'm a junky.

Amazon has it for $37 (http://www.amazon.com/Grand-Theft-Auto-Episodes-Xbox-360/dp/B002DC8GMM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1252009692&sr=1-1) plus you get a $5 amazon gift card for pre-ordering, plus I think you're an ECA member right, so that makes it 10% cheaper. Definitely a lot cheaper than for me, who paid $20 in points for the first one, and will pay another $20 in points for the second one. Although to be fair, I probably paid quite a bit less than $20 to get those points.

[zengonzo]

Good call, Rock8. Thanks much!

[Rock8man]

Is the hivemind in agreement with this? I'd love to go back to Liberty City but only for better (i.e. uncrippled with stilted storylin, ridiculous friend management and horrible minigames) gameplay. They didn't by any chance throw in any fun sidemissions, did they ... ? :/

Nope, the hivemind is not in agreement on this one. Here's Tom's take on TLAD (http://fidgit.com/archives/2009/02/why-i-wont-be-playing-grand-th.php). You can check out the thread (http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=48920&page=10) from the linked page, and see that some people agreed with Tom, while others felt that it was a good game.

[Marcin]

Nope, the hivemind is not in agreement on this one. Here's Tom's take on TLAD (http://fidgit.com/archives/2009/02/why-i-wont-be-playing-grand-th.php). You can check out the thread (http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=48920&page=10) from the linked page, and see that some people agreed with Tom, while others felt that it was a good game.

Thanks! I was looking for the L&D thread but I didn't realize it was hiding inside another one :D Reading now ...

[alexlitel]

Darn. Looks like GameFly just isn't going to be carrying it.

Ah, well. I'm a junky.They are carrying the Episodes from Liberty City disc.

[datter]

Is the hivemind in agreement with this? I'd love to go back to Liberty City but only for better (i.e. uncrippled with stilted storylin, ridiculous friend management and horrible minigames) gameplay. They didn't by any chance throw in any fun sidemissions, did they ... ? :/

I had a great time with the original game, and was never sure where all the complaining about it came from.
Stilted storyline? er, what?
Ridiculous friend management? I did no friend management, ridiculous or otherwise.
Horrible mini-games? ok fine, they were rather horrible... but did I play 'em? No sir/ma'am, I did not.
Un-fun sidemissions? The ones I played were plenty fun. Fun. Fun. Fun. Let's say fun some more.The Lost and the Damned is as good as the original, and better even just for the whole biker thing. I'm definitely looking forward to "The Ballad of Gay Tony" because I have every expectation it too will be great. I don't allow myself to look forward to many games these days, the awesome : meh ration is not what it used to be.

[Marcin]

I see your point, but even by your admission the game contained quite a lot of things (on which development time was spent to the detriment of others) that were not fun to do. Contrast that with Saints Row 2 where all the minigames were at least worth a shot - and to many *cough* worth completing to the highest level.

I simply wished to inquire whether L&D was similarly laden with BLAH, which appears to not be the case. :)

Stilted is perhaps not the right word. I think "ridiculous" will do better.

[datter]

Well, having recently tried my hand at Saints Row 2 I'll just say to each their own, and leave it at that. :)

[Bahimiron]

If 'my own' means playing some more Saints Row 2, then yes please.

[Mordrak]

Wow, looks great. What song is that? It's pretty neat.

[Royal Fool]

Wow, looks great. What song is that? It's pretty neat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPCxp6n6yYY

[Mordrak]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPCxp6n6yYY

Awesome, tyvm!

[zengonzo]

They are carrying the Episodes from Liberty City disc.

Duh, under the actual title of the disc. Added ..

Thanks, alex. Much obliged.

[Jose Liz]

More GTA is always a good time, though I'm curious about this game's sale potential. The retail disc should help a ton though

[Joe M.]

The ad for this is great. Alas, I don't own a console. :(

[Jose Liz]

Hop on board for just $199

[Joe M.]

Err, is this not available for PS3? I've had one of the slims in my Amazon cart since they were announced, just haven't pulled the trigger yet.

[Jose Liz]

Rumored for next year but nothing certain

[zengonzo]

http://www.giantbomb.com/grand-theft-auto-episodes-trailer/17-1472/


APC action now - I'm really hoping Gay Tony finally figures out how to make Liberty City fun again.

Turf battles, damnit! Street shootouts! No more fucking endless chases!

[Bahimiron]

The Ballad of Saints Row 2-ny was the ideal way to make GTA fun again.

HEYO!

Seriously though, I'm probably going to get this, play it for about five missions, get bored and quit again just like last year. But I'm still probably going to get it.

[BlueJackalope]

Turf battles, damnit! Street shootouts! No more fucking endless chases!

Is this true? Is this in TBOGT?

How much fun would it be to take over Libery City area by area ala San Andreas? Lots of fun I say.

[zengonzo]

Is this true? Is this in TBOGT?

How much fun would it be to take over Libery City area by area ala San Andreas? Lots of fun I say.

I hope so. I was mostly just wishing.

SA-style turf battles would make the out-mission map all the more interesting.

They also assist quite a bit in exploration.

[Rock8man]

So I fired this up today, just to see the intro movie and the flavor. And it really sucked me in. I couldn't stop playing for a couple of hours. I love what Rockstar has done with the colorful menus, the new music, the new TV shows (there's an anime parody that's hilarious), and just all the little details they add to these games.

Even the menu music when you pause the game is awesome. To give you an example of how their animation system keeps surprising me: I was following this guy, and I accidentally bumped into him as he going down some stairs, and he fell down the stairs in such a realistic way, I was just left gaping. Holy shit. Now if only he'd been pissed that I bumped him down the stairs instead of getting up and continuing to talk his script as if nothing happened. ;) Oh well, can't have everything.

Still, the cutscenes are superb so far. I'm really digging the characters. The dialog is excellent. They even have mission targets this time around for every mission. So in the first big shootout mission for example, one of the targets is to get 100% headshots.

Anyway, excellent game so far. I'd recommend it. I never could get very far in The Lost and the Damned with its New Jersey, motorcycle & heavy metal atmosphere, but playing The Ballad of Gay Tony, cruising down the street in Manhattan with Gay Tony while Disco Inferno plays on the radio? Hell yes, I'm hooked.

[Cobra]

I agree with Rockman. The whole DLC has a real Vice City feel to it. Party's,drugs, fast cars and a lot of action.

I couldn't stand the gang wars in tLatD but the drug wars in tBoGT are non-stop fun. I've completed all 25 of them already.

The characters are worked out really well. They actually talk,walk and act like "normal" human beings whereas in tLatD everyone was an asshole.The real star of DLC is Yusuf Amir (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nq_OezSJTeQ). Son of an Egyptian oil boss who will do anything to impress his dad.

I won't spoil too much, but I can tell you that this one is certainly worth the money.

[Pogue Mahone]

You guys are progressing much faster than I am, but I agree that Ballad of Gay Tony is really good stuff; so far I like it better than The Lost and Damned, but I'll need to finish this dlc to say for sure.

But just out of curiosity, are you guys finding TBoGT much more difficult than either GTA IV or TLaD? Or is it that I haven't played in so long that I'm just out of practice? I've had to replay each mission after the first at least once, and now I'm stuck trying to get the sticky bombs on the boats I'm chasing with Mori. I know I occasionally found tricky parts in GTAIV, but I pretty much breezed through TLaD, what do you guys think?

[Bahimiron]

I loved the videos for this so much, but god, I don't think I can take another betrayal by Rockstar. I hate driving in GTA4 so goddam much and, yeah, I hear some people get used to their driving system that they almost start to enjoy it. Some people get a sexual thrill out of having their balls hooked up to a car battery, too. I can't understand the mind of a deviant, okay? So are there tons of chase missions? Do they force me to use their awful cars for a lot of precision BS? If so, I think I'll just watch the story on YouTube.

[zengonzo]

No, there's actually a heavy focus on shootouts, and good ones, too. Not Original IV-style wacky buildings that end up exploiting the awkward cover system.

I'm finding much better situational awareness and satisfying combat in this one. And mid-mission checkpoints!

I'd not played TLatD before myself, so I'd started that one up first as it just seemed the right thing to do. Really wasn't feeling that one. Gay Tony got me from the start. I really dig the characters, and I like what Rockstar did with the club management - puts me more in mind of what they were going for in the III series before forgetting it all.

If only it would go into more detail with the manufacture, processing and distribution of blow.

[zengonzo]

Also, they give you an RCP-90 right from the start, which is awesome.

[Telefrog]

I'm going to get this, but probably well after the holidays. I just have too many new game sright now competing for my attention.

Hmmm... Perhaps I'll wait on a weekly XBLA sale? Did TLaD ever go on sale?

[Luke M]

Yes, at the end of August. $15 down from $20 on Live. Note that if you don't have TLaD, the disc version is a great buy. It comes with a color map and manual insert, one additional radio station for Gay Tony, and it can be resold.

[Rock8man]

An additional radio station?!!? Awww damn it, I'd love to have that. Is there a playlist for this radio station somewhere?

[Telefrog]

The DLC doesn't come with the new radio station?

[jpinard]

I have a question about GTA IV the original on Xbox 360. When you're driving around town it looks kinda fuzzy and low resolution. Did they do that on purpose or is there maybe something wrong with how my xbox is playing it? It doens't look as nice as that promo video that's for sure.

[Bahimiron]

The DLC doesn't come with the new radio station?

The DLC comes with a new radio station.

[Telefrog]

The DLC comes with a new radio station.

Hmm. Well, that's even more reason to wait six months for a sale on the DLC.

[Rock8man]

I have a question about GTA IV the original on Xbox 360. When you're driving around town it looks kinda fuzzy and low resolution. Did they do that on purpose or is there maybe something wrong with how my xbox is playing it? It doens't look as nice as that promo video that's for sure.

They added that in the Lost and the Damned DLC. It's something called "Grain Filter" in the display options. But I thought the original plain vanilla GTA IV didn't have that? Maybe they added the option in a patch? I also noticed the Ballad of Gay Tony does NOT have the grain filter option, which is a good choice, since

1) it made the game look awful, and
2) it wouldn't go with the shiny, colorful, glitzy look of Gay Tony at all.

[Jazar]

The DLC comes with a new radio station.

Is there another radio station that the DLC comes with?

Rockstar confirmed to us that due to certain copyright/licensing issues, the Vice City FM station and its content will indeed only appear in the version of Gay Tony present on the Episodes from Liberty City disc, and not in the Xbox LIVE Marketplace edition. That's that. A shame, though.

http://xcastonline.com/index.php/News/vice-ciy-fm-headlines-new-music-choices-in-ballad-of-gay-tony.html

This leans me heavily towards the disc version (unfortunately) because I love me some Vice City FM.

[Bahimiron]

Yikes. I (and the fools at Gametrailers) am wrong.

That sucks. I already own TLatD, so the disc version is a shitty value for me.

[BlueJackalope]

That sucks. I already own TLatD, so the disc version is a shitty value for me.

D'oh! Oh well. Looking forward to some Gay Tony tonight anyway!


Umm, that came out kinda wrong.

[Jazar]

Yikes. I (and the fools at Gametrailers) am wrong.

That sucks. I already own TLatD, so the disc version is a shitty value for me.

Same here which is why I'll probably just rent the disc instead of buying anything.

[LesJarvis]

What's the consensus on TLatD? Pretty good? Worth $20 if it also means I get an extra radio station for Gay Tony? I've been waffling about whether to download Gay Tony or buy the disc since I haven't played TLatD. The reviews of it seem pretty good, but the reviews for GTA 4 were also pretty good, so yeah.

[Rock8man]

Grrrr. I just looked up the song list on the net, found this at Gamespot's forums:

Neneh Cherry - Buffalo Stance
Swing Out Sister - Breakout
Robbie Nevil - C'est La Vie
Roachford - Cuddly Toy
Narada Michael Walden - Divine Emotions
Five Star - Find the Time
T'Pau - Heart and Soul
Mai Tai - "History"
Nu Shooz - "I Can't Wait"
Texas - I Don't Want A Lover
Marillion - Keyleigh
Hue And Cry - Labour of Love
Climie Fisher - Love Changes Everything
Hall and Oates - Maneater
Curiosity Killed the Cat - Misfit
Coldcut (feat. Lisa Stansfield) - People Hold On
Level 42 - Something About You
Jeffrey Osborne - Stay With Me Tonight
Womack & Womack - Teardrops
Roxette - The Look
Re-Flex - "The Politics of Dancing"
'Til Tuesday - Voices Carry
Boy Meets Girl - Waiting for a Star to Fall
Prehab Sprout - When Love Breaks Down
Terence Trent D'Arby - Wishing Well
Wet Wet Wet - Wishing I Was Lucky
Scritti Politti - Wood Beez (Pray Like Aretha Franklin)
John Farnham - You're the One

That is a great list of songs. I haven't heard Swing Out Sister's Breakout since it was on the chart in the late 80s. I might have to do what Jazar is doing, and rent the disc, even though I own the DLC over XBL.

[BlueJackalope]

What's the consensus on TLatD? Pretty good? Worth $20 if it also means I get an extra radio station for Gay Tony? I've been waffling about whether to download Gay Tony or buy the disc since I haven't played TLatD. The reviews of it seem pretty good, but the reviews for GTA 4 were also pretty good, so yeah.

I liked TLatD - grab missions over the phone - have bikes and guns delivered to you - Good Heavy Metal Station.

The bro-date sim crud was completely optional.

[Pogue Mahone]

Bummer about the radio station, I would have enjoyed some of that retro radio action. One thing strikes me as slightly odd about it though -- it mentions 'Maneater' as only on the disc version, right? But there is a mission in Ballad of Gay Tony where you walk into Tony's place and find his boyfriend dancing around singing along to 'Maneater'. I guess it's possible they just put that little piece of the song in the game for the cutscene, I haven't really been going up and down the dial looking for the song again, but that would be a little weird, right?

[Cobra]

Also, they give you an RCP-90 right from the start, which is awesome.
Yes, there's no need to buy any weapons this time. You get a new weapon nearly every two missions.

[alexlitel]

What's the consensus on TLatD? Pretty good? Worth $20 if it also means I get an extra radio station for Gay Tony? I've been waffling about whether to download Gay Tony or buy the disc since I haven't played TLatD. The reviews of it seem pretty good, but the reviews for GTA 4 were also pretty good, so yeah.It's insipid and boring, Gay Tony is what GTA4 should have been.

[Rock8man]

What's the consensus on TLatD? Pretty good? Worth $20 if it also means I get an extra radio station for Gay Tony? I've been waffling about whether to download Gay Tony or buy the disc since I haven't played TLatD. The reviews of it seem pretty good, but the reviews for GTA 4 were also pretty good, so yeah.

If it hadn't been for the extra radio station, I would have advised anyone who asked me to just get Gay Tony and Ignore tLatD. But then there are people like BlueJackalope and others who enjoyed TLatD, so I don't know, I guess it takes the attitude of liking that sort of motorcycle culture and or to at least be not completely turned off by it.

[Pogue Mahone]

Well, just my opinion of course, but I think The Lost and Damned is worth the money just for the motor cycle battle races. That, so far, is my favorite thing in GTAIV, dlc included -- just racing up to other bikers and smacking them off their ride with a club is such fun, I cackled like a madman during every race. But hey, that's just me.

[Jose Liz]

Isn't it interesting that both Gay Tony's Luiz Lopez and Vice City Stories' Vic Vance are both Dominican?

[Nawid A]

Isn't it interesting that both Gay Tony's Luiz Lopez and Vice City Stories' Vic Vance are both Dominican?
Aren't they visually stunning?

[Jose Liz]

Ya'know, your sense of humor, and especially your originality, certainly rival mine. I'd say your posts are worth the price of admission. :)

[Squee]

Is there another radio station that the DLC comes with?



http://xcastonline.com/index.php/News/vice-ciy-fm-headlines-new-music-choices-in-ballad-of-gay-tony.html

This leans me heavily towards the disc version (unfortunately) because I love me some Vice City FM.
Damn. Already got Lost and Damned as DLC, and I would have preferred to have done the same with Gay Tony since the extra songs carry over into the base game then, I believe. New radio station is nice though.

[Nawid A]

Ya'know, your sense of humor, and especially your originality, certainly rival mine. I'd say your posts are worth the price of admission. :)
I'd certainly give that post a 8.9 out of 10.

[Xemu]

I enjoyed TLAD as well -- some of the characters are pretty memorable and I found the hellraising aspect of the story a little liberating after all of Niko's angst. Certainly if you don't have either I'd say the Episodes disc is a great buy.

[zengonzo]

I thought Johnny had even more angst than Niko. At least Niko had his moments in the sun.

I really want to like Lost and Damned, but the beginning bits really didn't connect with me. And now that I've gotten into Gay Tony I'm going to have a difficult time switching back.

[rezaf]

The ad for this is great. Alas, I don't own a console. :(

Seconded. Shame on Rockstar for not bringing this to the PC.
_____
rezaf

[McCrank]

Seconded. Shame on Rockstar for not bringing this to the PC.
_____
rezaf

Just going off Rockstar's history here, I'm not sure how long Microsoft has the lockdown on these DLC's, but I would think they will come to the PC sooner or later...

-Chris

[Bahimiron]

Seconded. Shame on Rockstar for not bringing this to the PC.
_____
rezaf

Yes, shame them for accepting a truly fat wad of cash for 360 exclusivity.

I'm pretty sure that if Microsoft offered you $50 million to eat a full diaper, you'd go looking for your forks.

____________________________
<("<) B*A*H*I*M*I*R*O*N (>")>
"feel the storm of silence ^_^ "

[rezaf]

Seconded. Shame on Microsoft for not allowing Rockstar to bring to the PC.
_____
rezaf

Ok, there, fixed, happy now?

Whoever is responsible, it sucks.
The first DLC has been out for a long time, so I have my doubts it will ever come to the PC.
Same thing has happened with the PSP/PS2 spinoffs, Liberty City Stories and Vice City Stories.
_____
rezaf

[McCrank]

For some reason, when I think of Rockstar's releases, I think on year increments. I would actually be surprised if these didn't come to PC next Oct/Nov, but this is going strictly on my intuition :)

-Chris

[BlueJackalope]

If it hadn't been for the extra radio station, I would have advised anyone who asked me to just get Gay Tony and Ignore tLatD. But then there are people like BlueJackalope and others who enjoyed TLatD, so I don't know, I guess it takes the attitude of liking that sort of motorcycle culture and or to at least be not completely turned off by it.

In TLatD defense, the bike mechanics were fun (the bikes are big and heavy and you don't fly off when you hit a bump). I was cool with the Biker motif also. Johnny is a scumbag biker and doesn't mind getting his hands dirty (Niko seemed to be a sociopath to me, I didn't like him much) if it is for the good of the gang. Having a culture - a clubhouse, a gang, ect made Liberty City seem less artificial and "empty". It also dispensed with a lot of the running around that made GTAIV tedious. The side missions (bike races and gun battles) were fun and easy to start and restart.

Having played a few hours of Gay Tony I'd say its the best GTAIV yet. Way more focused with much less BS. The setting is more organic also. Luis is a citizen of LC, not just a maniac turned loose on it (though you can play like that if you want). Love the mid-mission checkpoints and the steady supply of weapons.

[zengonzo]

I did like the clubhouse aspect of Lost and Damned, as well as the greater sense of constant mobility by operating on the road - but didn't feel like there was enough involved in that aspect to overcome my apathy for the characters. I could really only identify Johnny and Billy, and I wasn't warming to either very much. Johnny's voice acting doesn't help much in that regard.

[zengonzo]

Also, for whatever it's worth, I'd played IV on the PS3 and the pop-in on the 360 seems worlds worse than on the PS3. I'm not sure if mine in particular is just running for shit, or there have been performance changes in the new versions, but even after installing it to the drive I get some pretty lousy performance.

Many times a section of the road doesn't appear until I've already past it. Often I'll get to an area and swing my view around while signs slowly load up.

[Rock8man]

That does sound new Zen. I don't remember that happening in the original GTA IV on the 360 either. Here was the Eurogamer Face-off (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/grand-theft-auto-iv-ps3-vs-xbox-360-special-article) for GTA IV, and it mentions the two versions having the same amount of pop in, despite the fact that you couldn't install the 360 version to the hard drive back then, while GTA IV on PS3 you could (had to?)

[zengonzo]

I would've expected installing to the drive to have made the difference there. I'd wondered if maybe I was just not remembering correctly, or if the issue was exaggerating in my head, but there was most definitely one part where I was driving on air for a bit. And if I'm really going, things won't even load - the whole city just becomes a blob. That definitely did not happen to me in IV.

My 360 also froze in the middle of a mission last night - so maybe it's on its way out. I might be extra grateful for that Walmart deal.

Has anyone else found this in Gay Tony particularly?

[BlueJackalope]

Has anyone else found this in Gay Tony particularly?

I have not FWIW.

[zengonzo]

Maybe I'll grab a video tonight.

[BlueJackalope]

Is there a new Multiplayer mode? Basejumping or something?

I never played a lot of GTAIV's multiplayer - not focused enough I guess, plus I hate the "random weapons on the ground" mechanic. But maybe this is the mode that will pay off on the promise.

[ElGuapo]

Man this fell off the radar fast. I'll concur with - I think it was Tom that earlier said this - that the real star of GTAIV is the city. There are just some wonderful moments in this city and this expansion is bringing it all back. I like that they added lots of stuff like the new games (golf, airhockey), the characters are more interesting . . . basically the whole game is improved.

Along the lines of interesting moments, I'm trying to get better at fight club, because I suck at the counter punch thing where you tap A and then do a counter. I can't seem to get the timing right. I don't want to practice in the cage as that cost me money. So towards that end I'm walking around looking for tough looking guys to pick fights with, like bikers. I don't want to get in a lot of police chases and run from the cops though, so I try to get them to attack me.

I found a tough looking biker who was walking down the sidewalk and started messing with him by getting too close and pushing him with my body instead of just outright attacking him. Sure enough he gets pissed and starts going after me. I'm not punching him, but instead trying to work on timing. All of a sudden a cop comes around the corner and points his gun at the biker and yells "Hands Up!". The biker drops his guard, puts his hands up and turns slowly. The cop approaches him and is holding him at gunpoint, then says something about "These bankcards look stolen to me." A cruiser rolls up with two more cops and the arresting officer puts the biker in the back, then walks around and joins him in the back seat (gotta do paperwork, I guess). They all roll out and I'm stuck watching my sparring partner get carted off to jail.

Great emergent moment. Next time I'm going to go down to the docks or some area with no cops around and practice on a hobo or dock worker.

[Nawid A]

GTA IV should take a page out of Uncharted 2's book about focused multiplayer.

[alexlitel]

Is it bad or good that Gay Tony is possibly the most mature portrayal of a gay character I've seen in gaming?

Also, this might just be the best written of the series yet.

[sam and the firefly]

Yeah I found the disc in an import shop the other day and went straight into Gay Tony - really liking it so far. The characters are fantastic, especially Yusuf.

I played through vanilla GTAIV on PS3, though, and I've also noticed a lot more pop-up on 360. On the other hand, the framerate seems to hold together slightly more than what I remember, so swings and roundabouts.

[zengonzo]

Is it bad or good that Gay Tony is possibly the most mature portrayal of a gay character I've seen in gaming?

Also, this might just be the best written of the series yet.

Far and away the best.

As for the portrayal of the gay character, Rockstar was in the hole on that with some of the shit in 4, where it made the pretense of being sympathetic, but just ended up with over-the-top clownishness that far exceeded the general tone of the game. So this only gets them out of that.

But it does, I think. Tony and Luis are great together. Haven't finished it yet - and with the cavalcade of seasonal wonders, I doubt it will happen anytime soon - but I'm optimistic.

[Papageno]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I've got a couple of questions about the Ballad of Gay Tony:

First, is the mission variety good? In other words, not always "drive someplace pick someone up then go some other place and kill everybody" like GTA IV? Something more akin to GTA San Andreas? Is the tone a bit less dour?

Second, is one of the new weapons a flamethrower (please say yes)?

And finally (and again please say yes) is the attack helicopter (and the APC for that matter) something that you can get your hands on more than in just a particular mission (perhaps by stealing it from a military base)? Also does the attack chopper have rockets? I was a huge fan of the tank in San Andreas and the attack chopper in Vice City.

[Pogue Mahone]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I've got a couple of questions about the Ballad of Gay Tony:

First, is the mission variety good? In other words, not always "drive someplace pick someone up then go some other place and kill everybody" like GTA IV? Something more akin to GTA San Andreas? Is the tone a bit less dour?

Second, is one of the new weapons a flamethrower (please say yes)?

And finally (and again please say yes) is the attack helicopter (and the APC for that matter) something that you can get your hands on more than in just a particular mission (perhaps by stealing it from a military base)? Also does the attack chopper have rockets? I was a huge fan of the tank in San Andreas and the attack chopper in Vice City.

I've played through Ballad of Gay Tony so I think I can field your questions. First, mission variety is pretty good, but it's very combat heavy, more than I remember GTAIV being. I was probably just out of practice, but I had to replay several missions, pretty tough.

Second question, no. But there is a pretty kickass shotgun with explosive rounds and it's probably the best weapon ever. Seriously, three or four shots can take down a police copter.

Attack helicopter and APC are available but only once the game missions are done. The attack copter is used for several missions, so it's not like you don't get much use from it. Last, it does have rockets but they aren't heat-seeking or lock-on rockets so unless the target is stationary I had trouble using them. But maybe you will have better luck.

[Andrew Mayer]

Finished it.

Loved it.

I'll also stand up and say I thought TLatD was pretty good as well. I really enjoyed riding around on my bikes, but Gay Tony has more gameplay going on.

And the ending was pretty awesome as well. I really enjoyed the touches of meta in the final missions.

Ultimately GTAIV is the sum of its parts, and there's so much payoff in Gay Tony, not the least of which is seeing an entirely different side of Brucie.

[Luke M]

And the ending was pretty awesome as well. I really enjoyed the touches of meta in the final missions.


I completely missed this apparent subtext during my playthrough of those final missions. Maybe I was overwhelmed by how awful the shooting controls are during one of the final mission's cramped interior shootouts. I must have repeated that damn segment 6 or 7 times. Are you referring to TBoGT's treatment of the homosexuality and racism stuff that's handled with juvenile behavior by many gamers?

SPOILERS




R*'s final Brucie cutscene didn't work for me. I think it's impact was blunted by the fact that there was little surprise when the character who spends all of his screen time over two games desperately forcing his manhood on everyone ended up being gay. It's a little cheap, even, as if R* needed yet another way to teach the homophobic gamer demographic that being tolerant is cool, man, and they went for the easiest character they could use to convey that message. Luis' relationship with Tony over the course of the game was more than enough to make your point, R*, thank you.

[Xemu]

The relationship between Tony and Luis is easily the highlight of the game, story wise. I genuinely didn't know how things were going to go between those characters as they hit various crises and I actually cared about them.

But in general TBOGT is just full of great stuff -- Yusuf is memorable and funny (if in that juvenile R* way), and some of the missions are among the best in the GTA series. It is fun seeing the 3-directional storylines finally resolved as well, and despite its size I finally feel like I really know the ins and outs of Liberty City.

Bring on Vice City 2!