The Dark Spire

[Angie Gallant]

Coming out on the 14th. (http://www.atlus.com/darkspire/) It's an old school dungeon crawling RPG for the DS, harkening back to the days of Bard's Tale and Wizardry. It even includes the option to turn off the graphics and play in wireframe.

I haven't seen much out about it, it's probably even more of a niche title than Etrian Odyessy. Anyone here seen some impressions or have some of their own?

[Dirt]

Didn't buy Etrian Odyessy. Probably gonna get this, the art has the right feel; it's probably nostalgia.

[Dave Long]

5.0 in Nintendo Power, but it looks like the typical capsule review where the guy playing it didn't really care for the genre or the general idea of creating a game that harkens back to Wizardry so closely.

Review says it's challenging, though. And everything about the review makes it sound like it's a really cool throwback title, but complains that there's nothing "new" about it.

[Angie Gallant]

Yeah, unfortunately I expect the game to get crap reviews from people who don't like throwbacks to simpler (and higher difficulty) times. I'm encouraged to hear that the text of the review makes it sound like what I am hoping for. Anything that invokes my fond memories of playing Wizardry 5 with my grandfather makes me especially happy.

Heck, if I end up really liking it, grandpa might be getting a DS for his birthday.

[Linoleum]

Hopefully DSiWare will open the door to more of these types of games. It's a great niche, but virtually impossible to get shelf space or afford serious marketing if you're an American developer.

[flyinj]

Picking this up as soon as it hits the shelves. I've been following this since I saw some Japanese magazine scan preview of it a few years ago.

[Dave Long]

There's a soundtrack CD with the first print of the game. Highly recommended you pre-order this one, even at this late date. Amazon has it, EB/Gamestop, etc.

Atlus is doing all kinds of really cool stuff with all their releases this spring/summer. Knights in the Nightmare looks super cool too, and that's out in May with a soundtrack CD and artbook.

[metta]

I'm excited about this title. Nintendo Power often gives the games I like a low score so the 5.0 looks like a good sign for me :)

[Dave Long]

Nintendo Power reviews are decent for the most part, but yeah, anything niche like this is probably not going to get the best marks and usually you can tell that whoever reviewed it either A) barely played it or B) didn't "get it".

[roguefrog]

The mere existence of the Comedy Skill makes me want to buy it.

[Jab2565]

Considering I bought and loved Etrian Odyssey 1 and 2 I'm going to have to get this one as well. Crap, I didn't realize that it was coming this soon does anyone know if Amazon will do the soundtrack preorder bonus as well?

[Chaplin]

EO2 was off the charts awesome for me. A very niche type game, but that thing has not left my DS for almost a year. Originally I was disappointed that there was not going to be a EO3 this year. However, the idea of Dark Spire has grown on me and I am really anticipating the release with hopes it will be every bit the gem EO was for me.

Maybe its just the kind of game I like. Maybe it is my age and the games I remember playing. Probably a bit of both. There are a lot of super crazy hyped mega smash hits that I just can't begin to be interested in.

Shrug. Got my pre-order and waiting for next week when I will find a nice place curl up and go old school crawling.

[VegasRobb]

Might swing by GB and preorder. Thanks for the heads up Angie.

[aphoristic gamer]

EO2 was off the charts awesome for me. A very niche type game, but that thing has not left my DS for almost a year. Originally I was disappointed that there was not going to be a EO3 this year. However, the idea of Dark Spire has grown on me and I am really anticipating the release with hopes it will be every bit the gem EO was for me.

Maybe its just the kind of game I like. Maybe it is my age and the games I remember playing. Probably a bit of both. There are a lot of super crazy hyped mega smash hits that I just can't begin to be interested in.

Shrug. Got my pre-order and waiting for next week when I will find a nice place curl up and go old school crawling.

That's because the director of Etrian Odyssey 1 and 2 has made a DS game with Sega instead, called "7th Dragon", that's in the vein of the two EOs with some improvements.

[Gendal]

The Etrian Odyssey games are about the only thing that got played on my DS this past couple of years, so looking forward to checking this out. I hated wireframe after the initial, very short geewhiz on the Apple II, so I doubt I will be using that mode.

Also had to look up 7th Dragon, Parish put up a good preview (http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3173142) of the import over at 1up. When the preview starts with "If you are a good and noble person, you love Etrian Odyssey." you at least don't have to worry about him understanding the genre. "The final result feels like a spot-on fusion of two great RPG series -- applying Dragon Quest's world design and perspective to Etrian Odyssey's mechanics and quest/mission structure. " Too bad nobody has announced plans to sell it over here in the states.

[Lizard_King]

The Etrian Odyssey games are about the only thing that got played on my DS this past couple of years, so looking forward to checking this out. I hated wireframe after the initial, very short geewhiz on the Apple II, so I doubt I will be using that mode.

Also had to look up 7th Dragon, Parish put up a good preview (http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3173142) of the import over at 1up. When the preview starts with "If you are a good and noble person, you love Etrian Odyssey." you at least don't have to worry about him understanding the genre. "The final result feels like a spot-on fusion of two great RPG series -- applying Dragon Quest's world design and perspective to Etrian Odyssey's mechanics and quest/mission structure. " Too bad nobody has announced plans to sell it over here in the states.
Never fails. As soon as I come across something that I know I want like Dark Spire, someone else alerts me to a game I want even more.

[aphoristic gamer]

Yeah Sega needs to get their localization teams working on 7th Dragon and Shining Force Feather if they aren't already underway.

They're already bringing over another niche Japanese RPG, World Destruction (as Sands of Destruction), so here's hoping.

[Robert Sharp]

What? 7th Dragon sounds awesome! They better port that thing with a quickness, or I'll get upset all over them.

[Linoleum]

The funny thing is I knew the thread wasn't about DarkSpyre (http://www.allgame.com/game.php?id=14599) but I remembered it anyway.

[Misguided]

Dark Spire has been on my radar for some time, having been a big Wizardry fan as a kid. I've decided to pass on it, though, because I simply have too much to play. I *am* planning to get Knights in the Nightmare, Steal Princess, and SMT Devil Survivor--all of which are other Spring/Summer DS releases from Atlus.

[Jab2565]

I think I answered my own question regarding the soundtrack. According to the atlus forum, the soundtrack is bundled with all copies of the game and isn't a preorder bonus per say that it goes to the retailers. I stopped by EB the other day and preordered it and they should have it in on Wednesday.

[Juntei]

Anyone pick this up yet? If so how is it?

[peacedog]

I preordered it. I'm not sure when it will arrive as I don't recall what shipping item I selected.

One preview worried me, though. It said you got little or nothing in the way of item stats and there were no hard-coded eq rules. E.g. a mage could equip armor, but you'd discover he couldn't cast spells in it.

It sounded rather stupid; I am potentially interested in any classic-style CRPG, but you need modern trappings. E.g. auto map (mapping in EO was silly; the game should do this for me), giving me relevant information when and were I need it. It's one thing to institute an ID system (and maybe this game has that and the preview wasn't clear). It's another to be stupid and claim it's "hardcore" and then be proud of it.

Didn't stop me from preordering, but still.

[metta]

(mapping in EO was silly; the game should do this for me), giving me relevant information when and were I need it.

You must be a young'in that never made your own maps on graph paper :p For me, EO totally nailed that aspect of classic dungeon crawling, and I didn't have to concentrate to stay inside the lines :o

[peacedog]

You must be a young'in that never made your own maps on graph paper :p For me, EO totally nailed that aspect of classic dungeon crawling, and I didn't have to concentrate to stay inside the lines :o

I made plenty of maps on graphing paper. It's something I look back on and loathe; Automaps didn't become industry standard for far too long and there are people I would torture for this if I could.

When I buy an RPG, I want to play the RPG. EO's character development was meh. The combat was ok - somewhat tactical at least - but by no means great. I'd rather more resources be pored into these - core gameplay mechanics - than the fucking map making simulator aspect. I don't care if dropping the character mapping meant only a 1% improvement in these areas. It's a worthwhile trade at that threshold.

[Adam B]

There's an automap. Pretty good one, actually. Why it's not displayed on the second screen of the DS, I'll never understand. But it's there.

I'm really interested to see how other QT3ers react to this. I enjoyed it for scratching the old Wizardry itch; other reviewers despised it for being unrepentantly oldschool to the point of sadism.

(fuck you, Chrome, I'll type "unrepentantly" if I want)

[McCrank]

Preordered :)

[aphoristic gamer]

Amazon.com says it will be in stock on April 16th.

[Damien Neil]

mapping in EO was silly; the game should do this for me

Drawing your own maps was the single best thing about EO.

[The Bird Flu]

I enjoyed it for scratching the old Wizardry itch; other reviewers despised it for being unrepentantly oldschool to the point of sadism.


This makes me angry. Why does oldschool = low review scores? Seriously, at this point Tom's reviews are the only ones I give any credit to and even then I disagree with him quite often. We need a review site with oldschool bias.

I guess I'm just getting old. I've enjoyed DCSS exponentially more than anything that has came out on the 360 or PS3. /shrug

Oh yea, I've had this preordered for some time now. Can't wait :)

[Adam B]

To be fair, things like level grinding, backtracking, and brutal difficulty are concepts that mainstream gaming has plenty of reasons to have moved away from.

(good lord, that sentence was tortured. Ah well.)

[Dave Long]

This makes me angry. Why does oldschool = low review scores? Seriously, at this point Tom's reviews are the only ones I give any credit to and even then I disagree with him quite often. We need a review site with oldschool bias.

I guess I'm just getting old. I've enjoyed DCSS exponentially more than anything that has came out on the 360 or PS3. /shrug

Oh yea, I've had this preordered for some time now. Can't wait :)
I don't get to review much anymore, but man, I'm probably old school to a fault... which is why I don't get to review much anymore.

Game reviewing is now a young man's game for the most part.

[CLWheeljack]

This makes me angry. Why does oldschool = low review scores? Seriously, at this point Tom's reviews are the only ones I give any credit to and even then I disagree with him quite often. We need a review site with oldschool bias.


I like that you picked up on the oldschool part, but apparently missed the sadism part.

[peacedog]

Drawing your own maps was the single best thing about EO.

I wouldn't have gotten Dark Spire, which probably won't be good but here's hoping, if they'd copied that aspect. I'd have considered not getting it if they'd had manual map making but I knew it would be decent.

I know a number of people enjoyed the map making, but it didn't really add much to gameplay. Well, anything at all.

backtracking

While that's true I think it's funny because Wizardry had teleporting. It was dropped from the series for Wiz 6 and 7 (with some short cuts being scripted in), of course. But the original classic RPGs tended to have means for you to get around quickly. Bard's Tale had teleporting too - it was just much meaner about allowing you to do it (far more "no teleport" terrain) as I recall. Ultima did not, but then scale in Ultima was such that getting around tended to be easy. Dungeons were far less complex than Wizardry; more like Legacy of the Ancients but not that complex.

Also, Centari Alliance was a visionary in this regard. You could play in traditional 1st person or use a simplified overhead view (basically navigating on the automap). It was excellent - you could click on a spot and the party would move to the spot. I seem to recall some pathing issues but less than you'd expect. Yes, I'm probably one of the rare people that liked Centauri Alliance (which was a flawed game, no doubt).

Now is where I should point out that cleve GARUNTEED Grimoire would have a revolutionary auto-travel system. REVOLUTIONARY. It would take mortal but otherwise exceptional coders a year to do this feature. It took Cleve 5 minutes.

[The Bird Flu]

I like that you picked up on the oldschool part, but apparently missed the sadism part.

WoW is without a doubt one of the most popular games ever and it's the most sadistic thing I've ever played in many ways. I guess sadism is subjective, which is why I would like an oldschool centered review site.

[Farscry]

Also had to look up 7th Dragon, Parish put up a good preview (http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3173142) of the import over at 1up. When the preview starts with "If you are a good and noble person, you love Etrian Odyssey." you at least don't have to worry about him understanding the genre. "The final result feels like a spot-on fusion of two great RPG series -- applying Dragon Quest's world design and perspective to Etrian Odyssey's mechanics and quest/mission structure. " Too bad nobody has announced plans to sell it over here in the states.

Oh man, sometimes I had living in North America and not knowing Japanese. That's the kind of game fusion that I would completely go nuts for.

[unbongwah]

We need a review site with oldschool bias.
Jeremy Parish writes about them all the time, both at 1UP (http://www.1up.com/do/my1Up?publicUserId=5379721) and on his personal site (http://www.gamespite.net/).

[aphoristic gamer]

Here's a detailed review of this game from Destructoid (http://www.destructoid.com/destructoid-review-the-dark-spire-128154.phtml)

That being said, The Dark Spire is simply not a game for everybody. The patience it takes to level your characters up enough to even pass the first few levels of the dungeon is of a quality that many gamers will not possess. However, for hardcore fans of dungeon crawlers and roguelikes, The Dark Spire will provide a stylish and enjoyable experience that will keep you busy for some time. You have to hand it to Atlus and Success for taking on a project that's aimed at such a niche audience -- their passion for giving gamers a hardcore title obviously ranked above any need to dumb the game down. Bravo!

[The Bird Flu]

Jeremy Parish writes about them all the time, both at 1UP (http://www.1up.com/do/my1Up?publicUserId=5379721) and on his personal site (http://www.gamespite.net/).

Very nice, thanks for the links. The Destroid review is very promising and I'll have to keep tabs on that site as well. Hurray for Atlus!

[peacedog]

Mine is set to arrive tomorrow. Can't wait.

[Lizard_King]

What I wouldn't give for a game like this on XBL...I ordered it anyway, but I just can't see myself sticking to a DS title for long these days.

[peacedog]

What I wouldn't give for a game like this on XBL...I ordered it anyway, but I just can't see myself sticking to a DS title for long these days.

This is sad, in a way, but I miss being able to play my GBA games on my Gamecube on a big TV. I loved that. Iused the gamecube for that more than anything else. By far.

I'd *kill* for stuff like this via XBL or the PSN. Seems to me this is a better medium for games like this anyway. I'm assuming that this would get into the hands of most of the people who would play it anyway, and that leaves alot more profit to get per sale. Maybe I'm wrong there. I can dream.

[TheRock]

I have to be up in desolate Bristol Bay AK for 2 months this summer....this and "the Quest" for my touch will do me good.

[Dave Long]

What I wouldn't give for a game like this on XBL...I ordered it anyway, but I just can't see myself sticking to a DS title for long these days.
Why is that? DS games are some of the best playing games on any platform. It's one of the few places you get this kind of stuff anymore.

[Robert Sharp]

The DS plays these games great. But sometimes you want to sit on your couch and play on your TV. Sometimes you don't want to be hunkered down at home playing a game on your DS, when you have this huge screen right there.

[Dave Long]

I agree. Unfortunately most of the console makers really don't want these kinds of games on their platform... especially if they're not 3D.

When the DS finally goes away, I'm afraid 2D gaming will be mostly lost to the winds of change.

[Robert Sharp]

Me too. I think we'll still get indie games on the PC, but no great 2d games on consoles. There must be a sales-based reason for this thinking. But I still hate it.

[Adam B]

You're right. There's no 2D stuff to be found on any of the download services.

How's your lawn, by the way? A little too heavily trod?

[Dave Long]

Speaking as someone who still sees things in the backgrounds and animations of SNK Neo Geo games that I never noticed before, I'm in complete agreement with you. I want 2D until the day I die.

[Dave Long]

You're right. There's no 2D stuff to be found on any of the download services.

How's your lawn, by the way? A little too heavily trod?
A lot of what is passed off as 2D on the download services is actually built in 3D... and looks the worse for it.

[Jab2565]

I've been playing this for the last 4 hours and I haven't even gotten past floor 2 yet. So far this game is not gripping me the same way Eo 1 and 2 did. There are some old school concessions that I'm glad that I missed the first time around. For example I hate not being able to see your position on the map without using a spell as every hallway is the same. The interface in general is very obtuse to me such as not being able to see how much of an increase in attack damage a weapon does.

The one mechanic that I miss from the EO series is the variety of character classes and the different builds that go with them. Right now I'm at class level 3 for everyone in my group and just getting by on the second floor.

[Lizard_King]

Why is that? DS games are some of the best playing games on any platform. It's one of the few places you get this kind of stuff anymore.

Well, that's the quandary. Now that I'm not restricted to DS only as a result of occupational deprivation (oh, the humanity!), I tend to favor games that allow me to enjoy my living room setup in all of its glory. Doesn't matter that a game's scale and horsepower requirements are well suited to the DS, I'm not particularly wedded to the control scheme outside of games like Ouendan and I'd rather have my screen and my couch.

I've been playing this for the last 4 hours and I haven't even gotten past floor 2 yet. So far this game is not gripping me the same way Eo 1 and 2 did. There are some old school concessions that I'm glad that I missed the first time around. For example I hate not being able to see your position on the map without using a spell as every hallway is the same. The interface in general is very obtuse to me such as not being able to see how much of an increase in attack damage a weapon does.

The one mechanic that I miss from the EO series is the variety of character classes and the different builds that go with them. Right now I'm at class level 3 for everyone in my groups and just getting by on the second floor.
Goddamn, man. That sounds grim.

[Doug Erickson]

on the other hand, i am really glad that i don't hafta harvest/mine crap.

[peacedog]

Me too. I think we'll still get indie games on the PC, but no great 2d games on consoles. There must be a sales-based reason for this thinking. But I still hate it.

I don't believe there is a sales based reason, not in the sense I think you are intending.

So a good looking 2d DS game is expensive, sure. It's nowhere near AAA title expensive, but it isn't cheap. Bu if you sell online, you remove a rather large portion of bullshit; there's no retailer getting a cut (and dictating things about the game, like final sale price, or how much shelf space you get. There's also no need to pay for shelf space). A DS game that needs to do 200k sales (I'm sort of pulling this number out of a hat randomly) in a store to break even at $29.99 is going to be profitable sold online, even at significantly less volume. And where the Gamestops of the world don't want to give decent shelf space to most titles after the initial sales rush, and want to push used games, you can cheaply offer to sell something online for years (long tail and all that).

I just think the industry is too geared towards big game development. And I'm sure it's correct that the console makers treat 2d games with disdain, which is unfortunate. There are already too many barriers (some of which are arguably necessary) to getting a game sold on XLA/PSN as is.

I'm with you and Lizard_King; these are games I want to play but where possible I want to play them on my nice LCD TV (I like having a DS for going on the road, sure).

[peacedog]

Well, apparently it won't make it today, despite Amazon's estimate. Ahh well.

[tylertoo]

This makes me angry. Why does oldschool = low review scores?... We need a review site with oldschool bias.

FWIW, IGN's Darkspire review (http://ds.ign.com/articles/973/973757p1.html) (8/10) takes a worthy approach: if this kind of thing is your thing, you'll love it:

By today’s standards the game is extremely mean and pretty unintuitive all around (you’ll need to dig and scour to really learn what you’re doing, dying all along the way), but it’s also exactly what it sets out to be, and I can get behind that. Along with Etrian Odyssey I/II on DS, The Dark Spire is the only game of its kind out there anymore, and for players that are open-minded enough to take a huge leap back into the world of classic dungeon crawling, The Dark Spire is an impressive reincarnation...

...the game feels extremely dated, but that’s the idea. For the one out of 1,000 gamers out there that dig on this experience, or want to try a truly impressive throwback, this is a must-buy. For those that don’t see the appeal, don’t think twice about skipping this one, as The Dark Spire is about as traditional and hardcore as it gets. You either love it or you don’t, and there isn’t a number rating out there that can say for sure what camp you fit in.


Not sure if this has been mentioned in this thread, but there's a wireframe mode to truly emulate that old school PC experience. That alone tempts me to grab it, even though I ultimately found Etrian Odyssey too punishing for my taste and likely will Darkspire as well.


By the way, IGN notes this regarding the soundtrack:

Every launch copy of The Dark Spire also comes with a free soundtrack CD. I’ve had a chance to listen to it in its entirety, and if you’re planning on picking the game up, it’s definitely worth it to get it now, as the tracks are pretty decent all around. The CD runs at a total of 37 minutes across 24 tracks ... (with) five songs from the game’s wireframe classic mode, which sound like complete throwbacks to Shadowgate and Castlevania NES harpsichord synth.

[mkozlows]

The part that saddens me is when they talk about not having any information on items. I associate "old-school" with gigantic tables full of item stats, with enough detailed info to bring tears to the heart of an accountant.

(Yes, accountants cry from the heart. No, I don't know why.)

If it doesn't have screens full of numbers, it's not the kind of old-school I want.

[peacedog]

The part that saddens me is when they talk about not having any information on items. I associate "old-school" with gigantic tables full of item stats, with enough detailed info to bring tears to the heart of an accountant.

(Yes, accountants cry from the heart. No, I don't know why.)

If it doesn't have screens full of numbers, it's not the kind of old-school I want.

Why? Most of the old school CRPGS gave away very little statistical information. Did you know what the base damage was for longswords in Wizardry? Not from the game. Id you know that +X longswords each had their own, seemingly random but progressing in power, damage types (e.g. longsword might be -1-8, +1 was 2-10, +2 was 4-15 or something)?

It's technically very old school to hide this stuff. Also very stupid (also, even Bard's Tale and Wizardry let you know who could equip what very easily, which Dark Spire allegedly won't), but that's an argument for another time.

[Adam B]

Dark Spire lets you know what classes are eligible for an item from the equip screen. It's not hidden at all.

[mkozlows]

Why? Most of the old school CRPGS gave away very little statistical information. Did you know what the base damage was for longswords in Wizardry? Not from the game.

Well, I never played Wizardry. I'm thinking more of games like Knights of Legend and (to a much smaller extent) Ultima.

[Juntei]

Well, I never played Wizardry. I'm thinking more of games like Knights of Legend and (to a much smaller extent) Ultima.

I never played Wizardry either... would love to go back and play it now but finding it is a problem.

[awdougherty]

Having never played Wizardry, I will say this captures the feel of the Bard's Tale games in my opinion. While I wish it would show you where you were on the automap, that's my only real gripe (and a small one at that). definitely fun so far.

[Lizard_King]

I think the oldest true computer RPGs I've played extensively were the batch of Gold Box AD&D RPGs that were dumped out for the Mac (including Dark Queen and Pools Of Darkness, which were the only two I completed). That said, I'm not finding this too old school for my limited frame of reference, just filled with hard decisions and lots of feedback when you make a poor one. I have a low tolerance for roguelikes and I kind of gave up on the Etrians after a while, probably because I felt so constrained by the need to power level, but this is a nice combination of things.

Also, aw, you do have the first level mage spell that positions you on the map, right? It's one of those hard decisions that I kind of enjoy.

I really like the effort they put into the story. Not so much the plot, but the presentation is minimalist and effective.

[Aszurom]

Are there any PC games like this? Maybe fan remakes of classics or something?

[VegasRobb]

Didn't have time to preorder. Very glad that the cd soundtrack was included in the initial batch. Haven't had time to do much beyond reading the instructions. Hoping to dig in a bit this weekend. Keep up the discussion please !

[metta]

Are there any PC games like this? Maybe fan remakes of classics or something?

It's more advanced than The Dark Spire, and maybe not as old-school-punishing as you'd prefer but this is a game of amazing depth and ingenuity:

Wizardry 8 (http://cgi.ebay.ca/Wizardry-VIII-8-PC-Game-2001_W0QQitemZ370189551270QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVideo _Games_Games?hash=item370189551270&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1215%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318)

[awdougherty]

Also, aw, you do have the first level mage spell that positions you on the map, right? It's one of those hard decisions that I kind of enjoy.


Yeah, I definitely took that spell. For some reason that just felt like an arbitrary "old-school" design decision to me. Otherwise I enjoy the game and I'm remembering the days where I wandered a first level dungeon grinding encounters just to make sure I didn't get obliterated on the second level.

[Jab2565]

I'm having a hard time pushing through the old school mechanics and I'm still stuck on floor 2, any general old school tips would be helpful.

Any tips for combat? I'm confused most of the time why I'm either getting killed within a few hits or doing massive damage to enemies.

[Adam B]

I had the most success using "heroic" format and pumping my fighter's AC as high as possible.

[tiohn]

I had the most success using "heroic" format and pumping my fighter's AC as high as possible.
Isn't lower AC better?

[peacedog]

It's more advanced than The Dark Spire, and maybe not as old-school-punishing as you'd prefer but this is a game of amazing depth and ingenuity:

Wizardry 8 (http://cgi.ebay.ca/Wizardry-VIII-8-PC-Game-2001_W0QQitemZ370189551270QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVideo _Games_Games?hash=item370189551270&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1215%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318)

Punishing in a different way, though, thanks to scaling encounters. It's possible a fan patch tweaks those (and one should absolutely track down not only the latest game patch but the fan patch that speeds combat). Pretty fun game, though, if you can muscle your way past the first 6-7 levels.

[TheWombat]

This thing certainly does what it claims to do, but man is it tough. Is there any way to revive a dead party member? I'm going to try the manual but it's really small print like most DS manuals and I have a hard time reading it :).

[Chaplin]

I am really enjoying this, but it seems to take some grinding. I am have level 4 characters and I cant seem to survive either the second floor or the basement. I just had a spell assassinate one of my characters in one shot. Am I supposed to go up or down after level 1? The first floor is so limited yet everything else is soooo much harder.

And boy is it rough to suddenly bump into a pack of 20 guys in a single encounter. Hrm, who should I attack? Scoundrel A, B, C, D, E, F or Grave Robber A, B, C, D, E, F, G or Skeleton A, B, C or D?

Oh, anyone know the difference between the 500 gold weapons that the warrior can use? They all seem the same.

[Lizard_King]

This thing certainly does what it claims to do, but man is it tough. Is there any way to revive a dead party member? I'm going to try the manual but it's really small print like most DS manuals and I have a hard time reading it :).

I'm fairly certain I saw a revive option in the temple back at the town. But it's all a haze of dank hallways and murderous opponents.

[metta]

Punishing in a different way, though, thanks to scaling encounters. It's possible a fan patch tweaks those (and one should absolutely track down not only the latest game patch but the fan patch that speeds combat). Pretty fun game, though, if you can muscle your way past the first 6-7 levels.

Weird. I've run through it a few times now and always find the first 8-10 levels to be the easiest. Only once you get out of the monastery do you really need to concentrate and do things like focus fire and crowd control.

Anyway, they don't make games like this for the PC any longer, so if you, Aszurom, are curious at all ebay is the place to get it. Good luck, have fun :)

[Adam B]

Yes Tiohn, I misspoke. I meant "jacked my fighters AC as much as possible" ;)

Revive at your temple in town.

Go up from floor 1. The basement is more like 3rd-4th floor difficulty and will kick your ass real hard if you're only level 4.

Weapons have different secondary attacks (quick strike, power strike, etc) as well as probably hidden hit/dmg/speed stats.

[Jab2565]

Spoiler warnings:

Is there anyway to either turn on the lights on floor 2 or the basement, or some kind of spell or item to be able to see what is going on?

And how do I activate the elevator on floor 1?

[Linoleum]

Started playing and all of a sudden I'm in Ocean Pacific and Vision Street Wear and my hair is spiked with aqua net. Oh yeah.

[Chaplin]

What do I do with all of this Scrap Metal that I have clogging up my inventory? I can't sell it, and the logical skills don't seem to interact with it.

[TheWombat]

I'm fairly certain I saw a revive option in the temple back at the town. But it's all a haze of dank hallways and murderous opponents.

Thanks! I figured this out right after I posted (naturally); the Temple of Order or the Temple of Chaos will revive dead 'uns of the proper alignment.

I'm guessing the game plan here is to farm the first floor until you're level 2 or 3 before hitting floor 2? I tried the second floor at level 1 and it didn't go so well. And yeah, the basement is icky.

[tiohn]

Did anyone else start with the premade characters? I was too pussy to start my own at level 1.

[TheWombat]

Did anyone else start with the premade characters? I was too pussy to start my own at level 1.

I created my own, which might be a mistake. I took one of each class; I'm guessing they can multiclass at some point? I really need to dig out my magnifying glass for the manual.

[tiohn]

You can multiclass any character that has the required stats for your extra class, although I'm not sure about more than one class. The premade priest comes with a level of mage as well, which has been really useful for the map spell.

[runesword forger]

I'm curious about a couple things. One, the plot -- I've seen reference to fixing an elevator or a generator or something. Spoiler tag it if necessary or whatever.

Secondly, the "flavor" text descriptions. Do those add a nice element? Do you have to click an OK button or do they just fade away after a couple seconds.

Uh, research, y' know....

[Adam B]

Flavor text is okay; gets old fairly quickly IMO.

One thing to note about farming easy battles or fighting trivial mobs on your way in/out the Tower: holding down A makes the turns *fly*. Just be careful that everyone's last action was attack or defend...nothing like accidentally blowing fireballs on goblins.

[peacedog]

I Swear there was a preview where the writer talked about being unable to see who could equip what, or maybe a dev did. Glad it isn't true.

I am somewhat annoyed: cursor memory doesn't extend as far as it should. It should jump to my thief for disarming traps, e.g. Also, I want it to remember that the last time my thief defended, she hid (and be ok with attacking the next round and then hiding the one after). Other than that: old school through and through. My team celebrated with my fighter getting the fewest hp when advancing to level 2. ;)

[peacedog]

Level 3 and things are looking better. I not have lock picking for the thief (who is behind a level). I'm pretty sure I screwed up my party. I spoiled myself on getting the elite classes. I'll have to rectifiy this. Here is what I haven't determined: does taking second class levels "reset" experience costs (e.g. it takes 1k to get fighter level 2, but purchasing a level in thief still just costs 500xp or whatever), or is there a master cost chart (so that level 2 = 1k, level 3 = 1.5k or whatever, regardless of how you mix and match class levels).

[tiohn]

I think that the first level of a second class costs the same no matter what, but it looks like every additional level in a secondary class makes your main class levels cost more. For instance, my level 2 priest has 1 level of mage and the third priest level cost 1100 exp rather than 1000 exp.

[metta]

These dilettantes reveal only their prejudices. The real question to ask is what does Angie think?

[tiohn]

I hate to say that I've been wondering the same thing.

[peacedog]

I think that the first level of a second class costs the same no matter what, but it looks like every additional level in a secondary class makes your main class levels cost more. For instance, my level 2 priest has 1 level of mage and the third priest level cost 1100 exp rather than 1000 exp.

Hmmm. So if I am reading this correctly, Level 2 mage level 1 priest buying a second level of priest doesn't page "4th class level" prices. Buying a third level of mage slightly exceeds "third level prices". BUt it's probably still less than fourth class level prices. Fascinating.

[tiohn]

Indeed. I just don't think that you're getting the stat bonuses that taking another level in your main class gives.

[peacedog]

Indeed. I just don't think that you're getting the stat bonuses that taking another level in your main class gives.

That's par for the old school course, though. Classic AD&D dual classing rules: hp gain sits at +1 until current class level > other class level. And you didn't get thac0/save bonuses until that happened as well.

Too bad there's no Double Jump guide.

I'm thinking I want to do something along the following lines:
Samurai ninja ranger druid. Or possibly the ranger will be a wizard (there's a mage/thief class). In good news, my fighter now has an AC of 2, and I'm on my way towards getting him a good helmet (I accidentally sold my steel helmet :( ).

The interface could be better. Selling things is a pain because you hop to the top of the list every time you sell something. Also, I was suprised at no touch screen; I don't use the touch screen much but I figutered it would be nice for inputting names. No good.

[tiohn]

I didn't realize there were classes beyond the basic 4!

[peacedog]

I didn't realize there were classes beyond the basic 4!

Hmmm, maybe I should consider that spoiler info? I won't post how to get them without doing that.

[tiohn]

Oh, I'm excited, not upset. I don't consider that really spoilery.

[Lizard_King]

I didn't realize there were classes beyond the basic 4!

They are in the manual on p23.

[tiohn]

Ah! So they are. Thanks.

[peacedog]

Oh, I'm excited, not upset. I don't consider that really spoilery.

I figured, I just thought it wouldn't hurt to ask.

Has anyone purchased any skills yet? I'm wondering about healthy living right now.

[Angie Gallant]

These dilettantes reveal only their prejudices. The real question to ask is what does Angie think?

I don't have it yet. I'm pretty busy these days, but once I've got it and can clock in a reasonable amount of time I'll post my impressions.

[peacedog]

Well I did one quest (graffiti), and IIRC turned it in back at the guild. Maybe I'm remebering that wrong, though, because I'm ready to finish a second quest and can't figure out how to turn it in.

[VegasRobb]

Yeah, it's old school alright. All my guys are level 2 and a couple are close to level 3. I made the standard one of each party. The Dwarven Priest is kicking lots of ass.

[Lizard_King]

I finally got some time in on this during a plane flight, and so far it's living up to its promises. Decisions on levelling are some of the most painful ones I've made in recent memory, and that's the kind of stuff that keeps me coming back. I can definitely see myself stumbling through my initial character builds (I deleted the premade characters when I first started up, in a "burn the ships behind me" kind of move that I regretted at the time) and then using those to develop some more min/max style characters that can better handle multiple duties.

Today's moment of joy was realizing that I could swap out spells at will at the guild (reading the manual during landing, after having been held hostage by a shortsighted choice early on with the priest).

I think I'm going to level the classes straight, although I am considering getting the relatively inexpensive good health skill for the thief because he is getting rocked by poison. I'm curious to see what the applications for the other skills end up being.

[Lizard_King]

So, I'm still laboring around level 3, but because I've taken the current batch of grinding and devoted it to learning skills, improving equipment, and multiclassing my elf mage now that I have managed to pray her into a lawful alignment. All kinds of neat little twists around that last thing.

Skills have proved to be very fickle things. Disarmament does seem to improve the odds for my thief, but healthy living seems to not do shit for his knack for being poisoned by toxic needles (this was a big drain on my resources early on, so I'm trying to get rid of it). Gambling seems to slightly increase your odds, but I'll be damned if I can ever get the double roll. I hope there's more gambling later on with more at stake. I had hoped Arts and Crafts would allow me to do something with all of that scrap metal I'm accumulating, but no luck with that yet.

Also, it's lame how armor can be directly compared as to how good it is, but weapons have no such numerical measure of ability (that I can see, anyway). I try to go off the flavor text, but that's one RPG convention I like.

[VegasRobb]

My party is up to level six across the board. The higher level spells are really nice and I've started messing around with different weapons (Estoc and Battleaxe). I was able to complete a couple quests and wow do they deliver major experience. I'm almost to the point of changing up combat formation. I'm still using the 3 in front / 1 in back formation it's very sad to see the thief and priest wilt as the fighter stands tall, but the damage output is nice. I just picked up a shortbow so I might try tossing it on the thief.

[Adam B]

You can put quarterstaves on your priest and mage for back-row attack action as well. The damage output is obviously not as good, but it's nice to not be getting your lower-AC dudes plastered all the time.

[Lizard_King]

My party is up to level six across the board. The higher level spells are really nice and I've started messing around with different weapons (Estoc and Battleaxe). I was able to complete a couple quests and wow do they deliver major experience. I'm almost to the point of changing up combat formation. I'm still using the 3 in front / 1 in back formation it's very sad to see the thief and priest wilt as the fighter stands tall, but the damage output is nice. I just picked up a shortbow so I might try tossing it on the thief.

I'm at level 4 across the board, and I switched to the hammer for my fighter a while back (I've been investing in skills out of curiosity, which has been unrewarding so far apart from the minor boosts of disarmament and gambling). My thief has been reliant on the longbow for a while now, which is handy. The priest continues to be in the front row much of the time. I had no idea that the quarterstaff worked from the back row, I'd been relying on the one level of priest my lawful elf mage has to give it some cheap offensive capability when the "real" spells aren't called for in battle.

Has anyone gotten much out of the less obvious skills? Dancing, cooking, arts and crafts? I'm assuming there will be moments when all of those investments will come in handy later on.

[KaoFloppy]

There's a Dark Spire Wiki page on skills (http://thedarkspire.wikidot.com/skills). Hint: some skills may not be useful during the game...

[Lizard_King]

There's a Dark Spire Wiki page on skills (http://thedarkspire.wikidot.com/skills). Hint: some skills may not be useful during the game...

Son of a bitch. And here I thought they were being coy.

[Angie Gallant]

I finally got this, and while I am only on the first floor, this is gaming heaven for me.

[tylertoo]

I finally got this, and while I am only on the first floor, this is gaming heaven for me.

Angie, two months later, whaddya think?

Actually I'm bumping this thread to point out (although it is mentioned in the Bargain Thread) that Dark Spire is now down to $10 at Gamestop. I snagged a copy there this morning, one that included the soundtrack, so I'm gonna give it a go...

[Alan Friesen]

There's a Dark Spire Wiki page on skills (http://thedarkspire.wikidot.com/skills). Hint: some skills may not be useful during the game...

Just reading that list of skills reminds me of Megatraveler. God, I loved that game.

[DTG]

I just bought my daughter a DS for her birthday, and figured I'd have no interest in trying it out.

Now I think I'll be borrowing it after she's asleep for a while.......

[unbongwah]

"DAD! Did you swipe my DS again?"
"Uhhh, no, hon, what makes you say that?"
"Then can you explain why my party's on level 10 when I was on level 8 when I quit?"

[Jupiter Jones]

$9.99 @ GameStop now. Just bought it and now I'm 4-character partying like it's 1981.

[Angie Gallant]

I loooove this game. That is all.

[Jupiter Jones]

I loooove this game. That is all.

I played in Modern Mode first. What a mistake. Classic mode is the sh*t.

[Becoming]

Man I've got to pick this up sometime, I just keep putting it off and forgetting about it.

Question; does it have any of the Shadowgate vibe that I kind of get from the screenshots and such? I really enjoyed Shadowgate back in the day, so that would be a big plus for me.

[barstein]

Man I've got to pick this up sometime, I just keep putting it off and forgetting about it.

Funny, I was thinking the same thing when I came back to this thread. It may still be next in line after Firetop Mountain (http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=54059) though.

Question; does it have any of the Shadowgate vibe that I kind of get from the screenshots and such? I really enjoyed Shadowgate back in the day, so that would be a big plus for me.

IGN's Darkspire review (http://ds.ign.com/articles/973/973757p1.html) (via (http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showpost.php?p=1705592&postcount=56)) makes a pretty strong claim that it does.

[Robert Sharp]

This game shouldn't be fun, but it is. It's very hard, involving lots of tedious short quests into the dungeon and running back to town to heal up. I played 5 hours before even realizing there were quests! They are kinda hard to find. There's a general lack of documentation on certain things.

But I've been really liking this game.

[Angie Gallant]

Yeah, that's what I really enjoy about the game though. There's a sense of accomplishment in just finding some of these quests, much less completing them.

[tylertoo]

I played 5 hours before even realizing there were quests!

Same for me; I remember finding some graffiti scribbled on a wall and wondering what that was about, only later did I realize there are quests and that was part of one.

I find some parts of the interface frustrating but on the whole its wonderful, and I'm thrilled there are developers willing to put out a niche game like this. It dropped down to $10 at Gamestop quickly though, so I fear it didn't sell well.

[Becoming]

Sounds like a winner. I'll have to make a note to stop at my local Gamestop this week sometime after work and snag a copy.