Never gets old: Texas School Board Set to Vote on Challenge to Evolution [Archive]

Midnight Son

03-24-2009, 02:41 PM

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123777413372910705.html

The Texas Board of Education will vote this week on a new science curriculum designed to challenge the guiding principle of evolution, a step that could influence what is taught in biology classes across the nation.
The proposed curriculum change would prompt teachers to raise doubts that all life on Earth is descended from common ancestry. Texas is such a huge textbook market that many publishers write to the state's standards, then market those books nationwide.

"This is the most specific assault I've seen against evolution and modern science," said Steven Newton, a project director at the National Center for Science Education, which promotes teaching of evolution.

Texas school board chairman Don McLeroy also sees the curriculum as a landmark -- but a positive one.

Dr. McLeroy believes that God created the earth less than 10,000 years ago. If the new curriculum passes, he says he will insist that high-school biology textbooks point out specific aspects of the fossil record that, in his view, undermine the theory that all life on Earth is descended from primitive scraps of genetic material that first emerged in the primordial muck about 3.9 billion years ago.

He also wants the texts to make the case that individual cells are far too complex to have evolved by chance mutation and natural selection, an argument popular with those who believe an intelligent designer created the universe.

The textbooks will "have to say that there's a problem with evolution -- because there is," said Dr. McLeroy, a dentist. "We need to be honest with the kids."
The Texas school board chairman..... believes that God created the earth less than 10000 years ago.

How the hell (TM) did such a person get to be the Chairman?

Oh yeah, it's Texas, where braincells go to die.

Good luck, chilluns, you're going to need it.

Fugitive

03-24-2009, 02:56 PM

What's the current state of the Texas textbooks? I don't remember if any of those sneaky "equal time for alternative theories" attempts made it through, and it seems awfully brazen to go straight for the "evolution is just plain wrong" attack.

BlueJackalope

03-24-2009, 03:09 PM

I think this raid is going to get wiped.

Eric T Cheng

03-24-2009, 03:17 PM

Nuke 'em orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Aszurom

03-24-2009, 03:23 PM

So, I guess talking about reincarnation in biology class and how the frog you're dissecting had it coming because of karmic debt is sorta.... out?

Robert Sharp

03-24-2009, 03:25 PM

Does anyone know what "specific aspects of the fossil record" might lead someone to this conclusion?

WildElf

03-24-2009, 03:48 PM

Does anyone know what "specific aspects of the fossil record" might lead someone to this conclusion?

None that I'm aware of. It works the other way. The conclusion leads to the belief that there are "specific aspects of the fossil record" that are questionable.

Creationists will point to things like where sediments have been altered or reversed so that it appears something like a dinosaur was buried after a human, ignoring the additional evidence that show the folding of geological strata creating a more complex fossil record than the cartoonish up and down layering. Or they'll point to gaps in the record, missing connections, ignoring the centuries of connections and filled gaps by scientific study, and that research is on going and changing. My favorites have to be "aspects" they point do that were scientific mistakes, mistakes that generally have been recognized as wrong for 80+ years, and god-given proof that science is wrong on everything (at least everything concerning biology and physics that work against the idea of a 6,000-10,000 year old earth, not the aspects that let them send an email or get a kidney transplant).

I doubt he has anything precise in mind, and simply wants to open the door to support his organized insanity.

Eric T Cheng

03-24-2009, 03:50 PM

I thought Satan planted fossils to fool man?

Mordrak

03-24-2009, 03:52 PM

Does anyone know what "specific aspects of the fossil record" might lead someone to this conclusion?

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a120/hawksdr/christianfoundfossil.jpg

EvilIdler

03-24-2009, 04:08 PM

Bible-thumpers like that should be banned from using any form of science or result of modern science. See how long they can go without medical care.

Mordrak

03-24-2009, 04:09 PM

I thought Satan planted fossils to fool man?

Damn you! You beat me to it. Heh.

Houngan

03-24-2009, 04:13 PM

Obligatory:

Skeptic.com

We can use your donations, thanks.

H.

Morberis

03-24-2009, 04:30 PM

Aww hell I hate it when people try to apply the watchmaker argument to scientific theories.

Kalle

03-24-2009, 05:56 PM

Bible-thumpers like that should be banned from using any form of science or result of modern science. See how long they can go without medical care.

Hell, see how long they go without electricity and indoor plumbing.

Tankero

03-24-2009, 05:58 PM

I'm sure this gentleman likes his cellphone. Let's see him trying to explain how it works without using the word "Electron." He can feel free to replace it with "Satan", if he so wishes.

Anti-Bunny

03-24-2009, 07:38 PM

Texas is such a huge textbook market that many publishers write to the state's standards, then market those books nationwide.

This is incorrect. In order to successfully market one book nationwide, it typically must meet standards for both Texas and California.

corsair

03-25-2009, 12:10 AM

The Discovery Institute, a Seattle think tank that challenges evolution, cites a recent Zogby poll that found a strong majority of Americans supports letting teachers explore both "strengths and weaknesses" of evolution. Otherwise, students see only "cherry-picked evidence that really amounts to propaganda," said John West, a senior fellow at the Discovery Institute.

"Think tank"? Creationist hit squad that's guiding light is the wedge strategy and pathological intellectual dishonesty - I never got the whole "lying for Jesus" approach.

Adree

03-25-2009, 02:44 AM

"Ever notice how people who believe in Creationism seem really unevolved?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R370YkYhV0w

jpinard

03-25-2009, 02:50 AM

Wouldn't abiogenesis have to be taught as well then... just to be fair?

Slainte Mhath

03-25-2009, 06:51 AM

I live in the same city as this atrocity http://www.creationmuseum.org/ so I'm reminded of this crap on a regular basis. They even advertise for birthday parties and school outings (and yes, school groups come from as far as 3 and 4 states away to see this place). They know damn well they can market to kids and plant the seeds that will allow this bullshit to grow in young minds.

It's little wonder the education system in this country sucks and our average test scores keep falling vesus the other industrialized nations of the world. We're so busy trying to pass legislation allowing kids to be taught about people riding freaking dinosaurs that we don't have time to actually fix the shit that's broken in our system.

Houngan

03-25-2009, 07:00 AM

You should have said so, I could have dropped by for dinner! I flew out of CVG just last week.

H.

corsair

03-25-2009, 07:01 AM

Wouldn't abiogenesis have to be taught as well then... just to be fair?

And that the world is danced into creation by Shiva (and danced right back out). Hey, it's a valid scientific theory! No, really - oscillating universe. But thar ya go - intelligent design!

Or the void known as Ginnungagap polarized into fire and ice, and the giant Ymir was conceived in the neutral ground between them. His asexually created progeny (Odin and his brothers) killed him and fashioned Midgard from his remains.

Or that the void vomited forth Gaea and....

Robert Sharp

03-25-2009, 07:23 AM

Right right. But I think the creationists try to get around all that by arguing that they are only proposing that creationism in the abstract is taught. In other words, you don't have to say it was Jesus's father who did all this. You just need to say that there is evidence of an intellect behind the world. Or something.

Ezdaar

03-25-2009, 07:37 AM

Aww hell I hate it when people try to apply the watchmaker argument to scientific theories.

But it worked so well for Paley!

Slainte Mhath

03-25-2009, 08:05 AM

You should have said so, I could have dropped by for dinner! I flew out of CVG just last week.

H.

Awww, crap. Sorry. Next time for sure, and we'll swing by the Creation Museum for some fun afterwards! Maybe they have a bucking triceratops we can ride?!

Houngan

03-25-2009, 08:24 AM

Awww, crap. Sorry. Next time for sure, and we'll swing by the Creation Museum for some fun afterwards! Maybe they have a bucking triceratops we can ride?!

Hah, no. Around 33 I stopped being able to deal with stupidity, I would last about five minutes then burn the place down. Just reading through their events calendar was enough to ruin my day.

H.

Bill

03-25-2009, 08:36 AM

Creationists will also point out that evolution is "just a theory, not a fact". This of course ignores the fact that all explanations in science are theories, and it's been amusing when I've pointed out to them that gravity is also "just a theory". They get a little apoplectic and insist that gravity is a fact.

Cosmic Hippo

03-25-2009, 08:38 AM

I wonder how many stoners they get. When the Creation Museum first came to our attention, one of the first reactions my friends and I had was to imagine how fun it would be to tour that place baked out of our minds.

Shmtur

03-25-2009, 09:01 AM

They get a little apoplectic and insist that gravity is a fact.

I suppose that would depend on what your definition of "is" is.

svenr

03-25-2009, 09:43 AM

ron_debry

03-25-2009, 09:50 AM

I am almost ready to come around to the view that we should just go ahead and "teach the controversy".

Why? Because if we do it right, it could be a very valuable lesson in the scientific method vs pseudoscience. It would serve the Discovery Institute right to have high school biology teachers really explore the difference between natural and supernatural explanation. To have them really go in depth about the huge number of predictions about pattern that the theory of evolution leads to, and how those predictions are overwhelmingly upheld. To have them ask "what would the world be like if it was created suddenly by an intelligent designer?" and help them realize that the answer is "it could look like ANYTHING" (though it would probably *not* include creatures that walk upright with such a lousy excuse for a vertebral column). To have them ask their students "if a cell is so complex that it must have been designed by an intelligent agent, then what designed the designer?"

BlueJackalope

03-25-2009, 09:53 AM

And that the world is danced into creation by Shiva (and danced right back out). Hey, it's a valid scientific theory! No, really - oscillating universe. But thar ya go - intelligent design!

Or the void known as Ginnungagap polarized into fire and ice, and the giant Ymir was conceived in the neutral ground between them. His asexually created progeny (Odin and his brothers) killed him and fashioned Midgard from his remains.

Or that the void vomited forth Gaea and....

What are you trying to say? (http://www.godchecker.com/)

tiohn

03-25-2009, 09:53 AM

In a nation where much of biology is taught by football coaches, I don't think it would go down like that.

Timemaster Tim

03-25-2009, 09:55 AM

What are you trying to say? (http://www.godchecker.com/)

I think he is trying to say that he a Pastafarian.

Euri

03-25-2009, 10:15 AM

Cubit

03-25-2009, 10:21 AM

In a nation where much of biology is taught by football coaches, I don't think it would go down like that.

This is true. Sadly, in my high school every History teacher was an athletics coach. Most of them probably put more effort into the coaching than actually teaching.

ron_debry

03-25-2009, 11:14 AM

In a nation where much of biology is taught by football coaches, I don't think it would go down like that.

You sell most of this country's high school science teachers way short. Like the ones in Dover, who had the guts to stand up to the Board of Education.

On the other hand, my high school biology teacher (in the early 70s) was a Morman and a creationist - and I went on to become an evolutionary biologist anyway.

RSofaer

03-25-2009, 11:23 AM

My high school biology teacher was a Hungarian Benedictine monk, and he was not a creationist. He did suck at teaching, though.

BlueJackalope

03-25-2009, 11:46 AM

My high school biology teacher was a Hungarian Benedictine monk, and he was not a creationist. He did suck at teaching, though.

My High School football coach taught mathmatics, he was a 7th day adventist and had like 9 kids. He was a super nice guy and a good math teacher.

Maybe all the creationists should just teach Math.

My Trig teacher on the other hand, was a racist and right wing nutter. He actually brought a speaker in to talk to our trig class about how Apartied was good for the black South Africans. Trig class.

Cubit

03-25-2009, 11:51 AM

My Trig teacher on the other hand, was a racist and right wing nutter. He actually brought a speaker in to talk to our trig class about how Apartied was good for the black South Africans. Trig class.

Damn, thats horrifying. Did he keep his job long?

BlueJackalope

03-25-2009, 12:23 PM

Damn, thats horrifying. Did he keep his job long?

Yup. The only thing I can ever remember him getting in trouble for was wearing a "Reagan for President" hat to school (and in class) and claiming it was a Halloween costume. But not very much trouble.

salwon

03-26-2009, 05:09 AM

This has been brought up by this asshole like five times in the past ten years (the legislature meets every two years). It didn't pass then, it won't pass now. Keep in mind that UT is about ten minutes away from the capitol - the building has professors coming out of the woodwork calling this guy a douche.

Cosmic Hippo

03-26-2009, 05:41 AM

BennyProfane

03-26-2009, 07:50 AM

In that case, I'd love to see some testimony highlights!

I'd insert the famous clip from Ghost Busters here, but for some reason I have an awful time embedding things on QT3. Somebody else want to oblige?

Jon Rowe

03-26-2009, 10:33 AM

Now, this piece of legislation seems like it isn't unfair. Not suggesting anything, just bringing up criticisms that do exist.

But.. those criticisms are so miniscule, they are equivalent to the tinfoil hat crowd in popularity.

This isn't science. They aren't theories, they are just a bunch of "scientists" pointing out something incomplete with a theory without giving their own explanation.

The fact they are singling out evolution as need special criticism is so unscientific it hurts. Science is un-biased... it just... exists. That is the core bit of science.

MattKeil

03-26-2009, 02:04 PM

You just need to say that there is evidence of an intellect behind the world. Or something.

Well, that's the problem, isn't it? Because there isn't any. These people just go up to the frontiers of science and say "HAHA YOU DON'T KNOW SO GOD DID IT!" and then scream about it like idiots to anyone who'll listen. I once saw a great speech that I wish I could find and link. It may have been a TED talk, but all I remember is that it was a heavyset African-American professor talking about all the great scientists from Newton to modern times, and noting exactly where in each man's studies they just sort of "gave up" and decided that anything more complex or microscopic or what have you must have been made by God. He then noted that, every single time, what a previous scientist considered to be inexplicable except by God's hand was later explained and understood by subsequent generations of science.

Consider that many of the scientific theories you know and understand, such as those concerning atoms and electromagnetism, were completely beyond the imagination of some of the most brilliant scientists in history. No matter how exotic or seemingly impenetrable something has been, science always has always gotten there eventually. "I don't know" never, ever means "God did it."

CLWheeljack

03-26-2009, 02:14 PM

I think you're thinking of Neil DeGrasse Tyson. I know the talk you're thinking of, but I can't find a link to it.

Edit: I think this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eV1r4fxaZsE) is it.

Lunch of Kong

03-26-2009, 02:27 PM

I think you're thinking of Neil DeGrasse Tyson. I know the talk you're thinking of, but I can't find a link to it.

Edit: I think this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eV1r4fxaZsE) is it.

Nice. Thanks, guys.

LesJarvis

03-26-2009, 02:41 PM

I watched that Neil DeGrasse Tyson lecture some months ago when it was linked in a thread here, and I cannot recommend it highly enough.

shift6

03-26-2009, 03:02 PM

Does anyone have an e-mail address or contact form for Chairman McLeroy? I have some things I'd like to run by him, Jesusfreak to Jesusfreak.

Midnight Son

03-26-2009, 03:45 PM

Conspiracy!

Lizard_King

03-26-2009, 05:20 PM

Does anyone have an e-mail address or contact form for Chairman McLeroy? I have some things I'd like to run by him, Jesusfreak to Jesusfreak.

here you go (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_McLeroy). Plenty of choice quotes.

Staff Sergeant

03-26-2009, 05:22 PM

Oh god he's a dentist. It should be illegal to refer to someone with the title "Dr." when they are speaking about something/doing something that doesn't have anything to with their doctorate. Either that or least include the type of degree they have, god-damn.

EDIT: Part of receiving a bachelor of science should be that you have to officially accept the theory of evolution on the record, and if you later deny it you are stripped of your degree. It's not up for interpretation people, and it doesn't exclude you from being religious, you just have to reconcile the two rather than cover your ears and behave like a 4 year old when people try to reason with you.

Wisbechlad

03-26-2009, 09:36 PM

Like I have said before, we know way more about Evolution than we do about Gravity.
Yep, we even know the transmission mechanism for evolution (sex and chromosomes) Gravity? Gravity waves haven't been detected, nor has any particle that could be the transmission.

Freaky stuff gravity.

Banzai

03-27-2009, 08:31 AM

The amendment to require classes to examine the 'strengths and weaknesses of scientific theories' failed to pass the board yesterday, so chalk one up for science, even if it is in Texas.

Enidigm

03-27-2009, 08:51 AM

Gravity fascinates me more than any other phenomenon.

As a kid I always that, if gravitation energies' effects had to travel in waveform, and were not conveyed instantaneously that most of dark energy/matter was simply energy "trapped" in the transmission of gravitational effects. Sadly my path in life did not direct me in the direction where i could investigates this further.

Cosmic Hippo

03-27-2009, 08:55 AM

Yep, we even know the transmission mechanism for evolution (sex and chromosomes) Gravity? Gravity waves haven't been detected, nor has any particle that could be the transmission.

Freaky stuff gravity.
Not to be a pedant (okay, that's exactly what I'm doing), but gravitational waves have actually been indirectly detected. Or better put, one predicted side effect of gravity waves in General Relativity was confirmed in the 70s when the Hulse-Taylor Binary Pulsar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hulse-Taylor_binary) was discovered and measured, and more direct detection is a work in progress. Still no word on gravitons, though.

Midnight Son

03-27-2009, 09:19 AM

YouWho

03-27-2009, 10:55 AM

The amendment to require classes to examine the 'strengths and weaknesses of scientific theories' failed to pass the board yesterday, so chalk one up for science, even if it is in Texas.
Unfortunately, the final vote is later today; I guess yesterday was a practice run or something.

This vote has consequences that might extend ten years into the future, and I have three kids who are about to enter the Texas school system (or not).

Hold me.

Tim Partlett

03-27-2009, 11:44 AM

Let them have alternative theories taught in science classes, in return that during religious education and church services, alternative theories must be given there also.

Banzai

03-27-2009, 03:02 PM

Unfortunately, the final vote is later today; I guess yesterday was a practice run or something.

This vote has consequences that might extend ten years into the future, and I have three kids who are about to enter the Texas school system (or not).

Hold me.

The final vote on the science standards is today, yes, but the specific amendment that had all of this anti-evolution crap was voted down yesterday. I'm sure that there will be something idiotic in the final version, but it won't include that particular amendment.

Edit: and a link with the final results - http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/education/stories/032809dntexevolution.78a4720b.html