Evochron Legends, a freeform space-sim

[Roy Ziegler]

For those having the blank screen problems, apparently it was an issue with the beta being mistakenly available on several download servers. The updated version works fine, and fixes a few annoying bugs I found in the main game.

http://starwraith3dgames.home.att.net/evochronlegends/about.htm

I just found out about this game, which is a rather pretty open ended space-sim which I think is being made by an indy developer. One of the things that piqued my interest about it was how it has seamless planet travel and space travel.

here are some screens:
http://starwraith3dgames.home.att.net/evochronlegends/screenshots.htm
http://starwraith3dgames.home.att.net/evochronlegends/s4.jpg
http://starwraith3dgames.home.att.net/evochronlegends/s10.jpg
http://starwraith3dgames.home.att.net/evochronlegends/s41.jpg
http://starwraith3dgames.home.att.net/evochronlegends/s15.jpg


the features:


-True freeform gameplay without plot restrictions, conditions, or limitations. No character attribute/skill limitations to hold you back. Experience ultimate gameplay freedom and play the game the way you want to. Your decisions and abilities define your role in the game and establish your reputations, wealth, progress, and ranking.

-Diverse gameplay choices and activities. New options including passenger transport, capital ship escort, military war zone missions, multiple waypoint patrols, and planet atmosphere combat contracts. There are many ways to make money and advance in the game.

-A vast seamless universe that lets you fly anywhere without loading screens. Fly from planet to planet, star to star, solar system to solar system seamlessly.

-Interactive training mode with selectable stages to provide the necessary basics for flying your ship, managing its systems, docking/landing, and surviving in combat.

-Unified gameplay architecture and profiles lets you keep the ship, upgrades, equipment, money, weapons, crew, and commodities you acquire in the game for use in both single player and multiplayer.

-Multiplayer capacity increased (for both human players and AI controlled ships).

-Clan ID linking system lets you establish your indicated threat levels with other players in multiplayer. Players sharing a common ID in their callsigns are linked together as friendly contacts while different ID's are indicated as hostile. You can also link together in-game with another clan to form a larger group for better odds of success.
-Cooperative multiplayer objectives that pay all linked players. Join forces with other players to complete more challenging activities that can offer much better pay. More advanced players can link with new players to give them access to higher paying contracts that they would not otherwise have access to early in the game. Being part of the same team lets you combine reputations and contract pay for improved results.

-Challenge other players to multiplayer ship-vs-ship races and place the race course where you want in space. Players can each have their own track to race the clock against each other or race each other on the same track.

-Seamless planet descents that can include weather effects such as rain, snow, and turbulence. Explore planets for hidden benefits, trade at city stations, mine their surfaces for valuable materials, recover cells from plants for valuable biological material, or hide in their atmospheres... they are an important part of the game's interactive universe... not just background scenery you can only look at.

-Ship-to-ship trading and cargo system. Ship and trade weapons, upgrades, and equipment in addition to commodities. You can even load items from your cargo bay onto your ship, letting you carry more weapons, upgrades, and equipment beyond what you can install on your ship.

-New energy pod generators and receivers, which players can use to set up 'capture the flag' scenarios and receive free fuel.

-New constructor stations that you can take raw materials to for crafting components and items.

-Optional customizable universe that lets you move objects in space, replace them, remove them, and change the local environment.

-Enhanced 3D game engine with new effects, objects, and textures.

-Dynamic economies with realistic variable item availability and specialized industries.

-Three weapon classes - beam weapons, particle cannons, and secondary missiles/equipment. New weapons and equipment include the Lynx, Rage and Cyclone missiles, proximity mines, probes, and new stealth technology.

-Explore for hidden commodity and weapon storage containers which offer free reloading, upgrades, and other valuable items.

-Use your wealth to design and build a new ship, buy better weapons, hire crew members, recruit other ships, install upgrades, load commodities, and more.

-All new Shipyard lets you design and customize your ship for the role you want to play. Optimize your ship for defense, exploration, combat, racing, or transporting... the choice is yours. You can also position and scale each component to give your ship a unique appearance. Civilian ships can also be painted a variety of colors.

-No required trade lanes or warp gates to hold you back. The game's universe is yours to explore with an open space navigation system and built-in jump drives. Optional warp gates are available for faster long distance travel and you can also install new gates in desired locations with the game's customizable universe.

-Realistic zero gravity inertia based 'Newtonian' style flight model including complete 3-way rotation and 3-way direction control with optional variable input. An advanced inertial dampening system helps keep flight control simple in space, atmospheres, and gravity fields. The physics system has been enhanced for improved realism based on ship type and design, including thruster-to-weight and acceleration/deceleration agility. Heavier and lighter ships alike now handle more realistically for their mass and configurations.

-Realistic environment interaction far beyond the genre's typical 'background wallpaper'. Nebula clouds, asteroid fields, planet atmospheres, moons, and more all provide unique options for shelter and strategy. Such environment elements include changes in gravity, fuel consumption, physics, sensor range, and visibility.

-Quick one-key access to jump drive navigation and inventory management. You control all system travel and inventory decisions right from the cockpit.

-Explore the game's massive universe with several secret locations to discover and many unique objects/obstacles to encounter including black holes, asteroid caves, wormholes, and stars.

-Clue-based integrated story you can continue at virtually any time. Follow the beacons, solve the clues and voyage through many systems in a quest to discover the mystery of what happened at Arvoch and the device the Alliance found. Players who take on the challenge of the story quest and succeed will discover a very beneficial feature.

-Supports keyboard, mouse, gamepad, and joystick flight control. Use the control device you prefer to play the game. Force feedback control is also supported.

-Supports Natural Point's TrackIR 3D head control system for managing the viewpoint from the cockpit with all six degrees of movement.


The next generation of Evochron launches soon! I don't know what the release date is, but I figured I should spread the word about this game, since it seems like a more accessible version of the X games with planet exploration.

[Roy Ziegler]

damn text limit

here's the main description of the game:


Evochron Legends is a freeform mercenary space-sim that focuses on 'lone-wolf' survival gameplay. You can play the game in a variety of ways and complete many activities including buying, trading, negotiating, bribing, spying, racing, escorting, transporting, mining, exploring, cleaning equipment, clearing paths through asteroid fields, recruiting, protecting, hiring crew members, fuel harvesting, and designing your ship. Evochron Legends is a technical simulation, not a character based simulator, so you are not limited by pre-selected character roles, skills, or attributes. Your decisions and actions define your role in the game and establish your reputations, wealth, progress, and ranking. The emphasis is on real-time tactical gameplay strategy for both combat and non-combat objectives. You are in control of your ship virtually all of the time in open space, including player controlled combat and planetary descents. Your ability to successfully pilot around or through dangerous objects in space, develop trade strategies, evade detection, harvest resources, efficiently explore for hidden benefits, and transport people and items can be just as important as your skill in combat. The game also rewards players who devise their own gameplay strategies and 'think outside the box'. With diverse optional objectives and many paths to choose from, Evochron Legends offers an amazing level of freeform gameplay.

Evochron Legends features unified gameplay profiles for both single player and multiplayer. The upgrades, ships, equipment, money, and commodities you earn in the game can be used in both the single player and multiplayer modes. You don't have to give up your progress in these areas when switching between single player and multiplayer, nor do you have to give up what you earn when you join different multiplayer sessions.

Everything you do in the game takes place in a seamless universe without system 'walls' or 'rooms' that require a jumpgate 'door' to access. There are no required warp gates or trade lanes to restrict your travel and hold you back. You can travel anywhere you want, with or without jump drives and gates, as long as you have the fuel and time to get there. You can descend into planet atmospheres (without loading screens or sudden environment flipping) to land at city trade stations, mine valuable materials, or explore for hidden items. You can escape to nebula clouds for sensor cover or hide in a massive asteroid cave for protection.

Design your ship for the role you want to play and customize the appearance by adjusting the position/scaling of the various parts of your ship. Whether it's combat, exploration, mining, trading, racing, or a variety of other activities, you'll find many ways to play and advance in the game. Below is a list of many features available in Evochron Legends.

[Juan Rayo]

This looks very interesting, not an MMO, right? wonder how pvp works,...

[Roy Ziegler]

yup. single player with some multi

[Sam Jones]

I don't know what the release date is

Today, according to their forum.

[ROTC1983]

If it came out today, I think I will be purchasing it. It looks very interesting :)

[Cubit]

Today, according to their forum.

I think they are shooting for tomorrow, Feb 5. Atleast thats what it says on a sticky in the forum.

[Morberis]

What features set Evochron Legends apart from other space-sims?
- Below is a list of unique features found in Evochron Legends. Some other space-sims might have some of these features, but Evochron Legends is the only one that includes all of them in one game:

- Direct Ship-to-Ship trading in addition to stations and planet cities
- Player controlled seamless planetary descents with city landings, plants, water, and weather effects
- Atmosphere effects (drag, lift, descent burn/glow, maneuvering limitations, etc)
- Diverse gameplay objectives including buying, trading, negotiating, bribing, spying, escorting, racing, transporting, mining, exploring, cleaning equipment, clearing asteroids, recruiting, protecting, and designing your ship.
- Constructor stations that take materials and build valuable items
- Unified single player and multiplayer architecture (keep what you earn in both modes)
- Mouse, Keyboard, AND Joystick/Gamepad control options
- Real-time gameplay docking and trading
- Unrestricted, open space jump drive system travel
- Realistic Newtonian physics
- Hiring and managing specialized crew members
- 3D cockpit with functional displays and readout text rendered as part of the 3D scene, not merely a 2D layer of text and pasted images
- Fuel resource management
- Dynamic changing economy
- Customize HUD, cockpit, and ship/item names
- Per ship reputations with optional bribing
- Realistic revolving inventory availability
- Radar (with 3D spherical direction indication)
- Target direction tracking display (with optional multiple target tracking)
- In-cockpit inventory and trade management
- Directional shielding with augment control
- Auto-repair ship upgrade devices
- Stealth/cloaking devices
- EMP weapons
- Gravity effects
- Multiplayer
- AI based trade negotiating
- HUD based direction and orientation guides
- Variable maneuvering thruster control (for all directions and rotations)
- All degrees of freedom of motion (forward/reverse, left/right, up/down, pitch, roll, and yaw)

Oh hell yeah

[Pogo]

I can't play a space game that doesn't model all 11 dimensions of string theory, sorry.

[tiohn]

If it models newtonian physics at this scale, it's also modeling (supposed) string theory.

[ElGuapo]

How is this different than Evochron: Renegades? (http://starwraith3dgames.home.att.net/evochronrenegades/features.htm)

[Roy Ziegler]

from a quick glance at the screenshots, it has much better graphics

and since it's a sequel, I'm going to assume it has new features/improved gameplay

[Morberis]

How is this different than Evochron: Renegades? (http://starwraith3dgames.home.att.net/evochronrenegades/features.htm)


How is Evochron Legends different from previous Evochron games?
- Evochron Legends adds many player requested features and changes. I've been able to implement most of the features I've had on my to-do list, some of which have been on the list for several years and weren't feasible under the older game's design. Here is a list of some of the changes and new features found in Legends compared to the older games:

- New contract options including passenger transport, capital ship escort, military war zone missions, multiple waypoint patrols, and planet atmosphere combat.
- Improved planetary descent effects, terrain (including plants), and cities.
- All planetary cities can now be docked with.
- High detail space stations with shape specific gravity repelling collision system.
- New constructor stations that can take raw materials for constructing components and items.
- Optional military role with new missions and dedicated ranking system.
- New objective based beacon quest following the path of Michael Gerret in his search for answers to what happened to his brother and the mystery of the Vonari device from Arvoch Conflict.
- Dockable Alliance military carriers.
- New military ships available to own and fly.
- Multiplayer capacity increased (for both human players and AI controlled ships).
- New energy pod generators and receivers which can be used to set up 'capture the flag' scenarios in multiplayer and can be used to acquire free fuel.
- 'War Zones' where large military battles take place and the player can join in a war against the Vonari.
- Vonari interceptor and bomber class spacecraft to battle against in addition to the original fighters.
- New weapons and equipment like the Lynx, Rage and Cyclone missiles, proximity mines, probes, and new stealth technology that can be installed as equipment and used repeatedly.
- Updated training system with selectable stages available in the main menu.
- New materials for harvesting and mining including oxygen, plant cells (biological material), water, gold, silver, and armor. - High energy nebulae that prevent jump drives from engaging, giving players PvP zones that prevent quick escape.
- New high detail 3D cockpit with revised HUD, displays, and indicators.
- Updated navigaton map with color coded icons, larger text (with shadows), and much greater range.
- Painting options added for civilian ships.
- New capital ships including Cruisers, Battleships, Command Ships, and Destroyers which also join in war zone battles, including the use of beam weapons.
- Inbound missile direction and range indicators.
- Improved AI with a wider variety of difficulty. AI ships also follow more structured traffic patterns.
- Additional background radio chatter near populated areas to help give the game's universe a more 'living' feel.
- Many more gameplay, graphics, and sound improvements.

From here (http://starwraith3dgames.home.att.net/evochronlegends/faq.htm).

[Marcin]

Cool. I own Renegades (and don't play it enough what with the Holiday 2008 deluge) but this is tempting to fork out some $ for the new+shiny.

[Morberis]

Cool. I own Renegades (and don't play it enough what with the Holiday 2008 deluge) but this is tempting to fork out some $ for the new+shiny.


How was it?

[Adam Sensoy]

I was always interested in Evochron, and even tried the demo of the first one-but it was a little too rough for my tastes. I am really excited for this one though, and would really like to try it.

[Marcus]

So is it out or what? I'm a little hesitant to buy it because their website is pretty shitty.

[DennyA]

I'm suddenly curious... I wonder what Derek's up to nowadays?

[garin]

The future of tactical warfare, naturally. (http://www.3000ad.com/site/home/)

[Roy Ziegler]

it's out:

http://starwraith3dgames.home.att.net/evochronlegends/purchase.htm

[Roy Ziegler]

So is it out or what? I'm a little hesitant to buy it because their website is pretty shitty.

So you only buy games that have good websites? You're a strange one.

[Juan Rayo]

ok I'm gonna be a total coward and wait for someone ELSE in Qt3 to play this, but if it's any good, I am totally breaking my "no new games in 6 months" promise.

[Marcus]

So you only buy games that have good websites? You're a strange one.

No but if the front page of the website doesn't even say the game is out that does not make much sense to me. If the News section doesn't talk about the game being out that makes no sense either. Yes people have said the game is out but honestly just looking at the website who would know. I'm not going to drop 24 bucks on that chance.
ok I'm gonna be a total coward and wait for someone ELSE in Qt3 to play this, but if it's any good, I am totally breaking my "no new games in 6 months" promise.

Yeah same here. I'll wait for some reviews or something.

[Roy Ziegler]

No but if the front page of the website doesn't even say the game is out that does not make much sense to me. If the News section doesn't talk about the game being out that makes no sense either. Yes people have said the game is out but honestly just looking at the website who would know. I'm not going to drop 24 bucks on that chance.

The release date was the 5th, which they stated in the forums. The demo and purchase links were just put up an hour ago, like the first hour in the day.

Relax. Try the demo. IT'S A SCAM!!!

Here's a link to the demo. (http://starwraith3dgames.home.att.net/evochronlegends/downloads.htm) My video card is fucked so I can't try it out.

[Juan Rayo]

Thanks Roy, downloading the demo while I go to bed, should be good to try it out tomorrow.

you know? I am skeptic, but I REALLY want this game to be all that it promises to be.

[Roy Ziegler]

Being from an indy dev, I expect it (and any other game with this scope) to be rough around the edges. Hopefully it's a gem underneath, though.

[deanco]

Runtime error 31 on demo launch, happening at different places. Does not portend well.

[mlatin]

Works for me. Haven't really had the time to get into it yet, though.

[Marcin]

How was it?

A bit sparse. Felt like every planet had the (same) one city on it, so taking off and landing felt just like wasted time (still cool though). Space stations all shared the same model. The sector I was in was pretty empty - running fedex missions from identical station to identical station wasn't all that. Atmospheric flight felt pretty similar to space flight, IIRC.

On the other hand, combat was fine, lots of ship customisation options, and the ability to make your own ship out of basic shapes was fun for a while.

It looks like this one has more STUFF in it, which is why I'm tempted to pick it up and give it another stab.

[Marcus]

A bit sparse. Felt like every planet had the (same) one city on it, so taking off and landing felt just like wasted time (still cool though). Space stations all shared the same model. The sector I was in was pretty empty - running fedex missions from identical station to identical station wasn't all that. Atmospheric flight felt pretty similar to space flight, IIRC.
Well the thing is the game isn't very big size wise so it doesn't look like they have that much art to work with. I mean the download is only 48 megs and the complete install is 125 megs. I think it does look pretty good for what it is but I can see it looking the same quite a bit. The whole landing on the planet thing was pretty cool though. The first time I tried to just jet down to the planet and burned up ha.

[ElGuapo]

The first time I tried it I jumped into a planet's atmosphere and burned up. D'oh! Next time I'll jump a little farther out.

More STUFF doesn't interest me at all. . . some kind of objective or goal or differentiation and uniqueness of areas would be great. Something like Escape Velocity: Nova or the minigames of Space Rangers 2.

[Sepiche]

The first time I tried it I jumped into a planet's atmosphere and burned up. D'oh! Next time I'll jump a little farther out.
heh I did the same thing.

No crashes and it's interesting so far. Demo is an hour and a half of unlimited play it looks like and comes with a tutorial that doesn't take from your playtime. Tutorial seemed to cover all the important stuff.

IT has a fairly good mix of realism vs. ease of use so far. You do have to manually enter a glidepath to land, but once you get close a tractor beam grabs you and that's it.

Ship editing has a bit of the ship editing from GalCiv 2. You buy a basic ship frame and mount different components onto it that can be resized and moved around.

Just starting to get some missions now...

[Telefrog]

Is it as newbie-unfriendly as the X3 games?

[Marcin]

The first time I tried it I jumped into a planet's atmosphere and burned up. D'oh! Next time I'll jump a little farther out.

More STUFF doesn't interest me at all. . . some kind of objective or goal or differentiation and uniqueness of areas would be great. Something like Escape Velocity: Nova or the minigames of Space Rangers 2.

That *is* stuff. What do you think STUFF is? Sheesh.


Is it as newbie-unfriendly as the X3 games?
Not even close, it's much easier to get into.

[Brian Rubin]

I've been in the beta of this, and it's awesome. Totally love it.

[RodeoRanch]

So is it worth the money to pick up the full version?

[Case]

Rats, nothing but a white screen, then an "unresponsive application" error from Vista 64, using an GTX280, latest Nvidia drivers, on a Core 2 Quad Q9650.

[scharmers]

Case, you know that he's written all of his stuff in Dark Basic + some custom DLLs, right? DB Classic is kinda a bitch to get going in Vista with your skunk works components.

[Case]

Yeah, and it's Vista x64 to boot, so I'm guessing the game just kind of melts internally when it tries to run ;-)


Case, you know that he's written all of his stuff in Dark Basic + some custom DLLs, right? DB Classic is kinda a bitch to get going in Vista with your skunk works components.

[Cubit]

I just tried running the demo under Vista x64 and an 8800gt, and had no trouble at all. Hmm.

[Janster]

Yes, game runs

Sigh, I can't recommend this game to anyone, if you want something good, the open source Freespace 2 will give you more entertainment.

It has a 2d map to navigate a 3d world, I don't think it's gonna win any fans.

[Tyjenks]

Also available via Gamer's Gate (http://www.gamersgate.com/?page=product&what=view&sku=DD-EL), BTW.

[Eric Majkut]

I never know how to feel about games like this. It LOOKS really cool, but the whole "wide open enormous universe" thing isn't much fun to play in single player. And then having basic multiplayer like this with no persistence to the world at all kinda sucks, too :(

I kinda want Eve with this interface, basically ;)

[Gendal]

I never know how to feel about games like this. It LOOKS really cool, but the whole "wide open enormous universe" thing isn't much fun to play in single player.
Star Flight just coughed, Freelancer looks confused , and Star Control II just had a brain aneurysm. I can't read Elite's expression, but it looks like he just saw Cthulhu.

[Marcin]

Star Flight just coughed, Freelancer looks confused , and Star Control II just had a brain aneurysm. I can't read Elite's expression, but it looks like he just saw Cthulhu.

And the X-series lol'ed and muttered something about Khock.

[Tim James]

Sits at a black screen for me. XP, HD4850.

[Morberis]

Black screen
8800gtx, Q6600, Vista 64

[mlatin]

Still "works for me", Vista x64-SP1, 4850.

[Janster]

The distant...future.. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1BdQcJ2ZYY&feature=related)


In this future, the weapons ..say. pew...

the guns do no damage on enemies..instead they just say pew.

The radar systems, and ship general systems have been improved to be about ww2 standard. Missile ranges are 5...gun range is 1...so that you can only shoot an enemy when you see the white in their eyes.

amg.

Can't you guys just make a ww2 plane trade sim..it would fit better.
You fly from ww2 airport to airport..trading guns and improving your spit Mk I. Sometimes you have to do missions, like escort a bomber or race an enemy plane through a box.

I guess my idea of the distant future, is rubbish.
Jan

[Brian Rubin]

So is it worth the money to pick up the full version?
Absolutely, especially if you like this sort of game, has tons of features and lots of great playability. I've really been enjoying it.

[Brian Rubin]

I never know how to feel about games like this. It LOOKS really cool, but the whole "wide open enormous universe" thing isn't much fun to play in single player. And then having basic multiplayer like this with no persistence to the world at all kinda sucks, too :(

I kinda want Eve with this interface, basically ;)
You need to play Jumpgate or wait for Jumpgate Evolution then. ;)

[Roy Ziegler]

The distant...future.. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1BdQcJ2ZYY&feature=related)


In this future, the weapons ..say. pew...

the guns do no damage on enemies..instead they just say pew.

The radar systems, and ship general systems have been improved to be about ww2 standard. Missile ranges are 5...gun range is 1...so that you can only shoot an enemy when you see the white in their eyes.

amg.

Can't you guys just make a ww2 plane trade sim..it would fit better.
You fly from ww2 airport to airport..trading guns and improving your spit Mk I. Sometimes you have to do missions, like escort a bomber or race an enemy plane through a box.

I guess my idea of the distant future, is rubbish.
Jan

I'm trying to figure out your complaint, Jan. Lasers in the future make a "pew" sound?

As for their reach, I'm guessing it's like all space-sims like it where you start out with a crappy ship with crappy parts with crappy weapons that do crappy damage.

[krayzkrok]

I tell you what, the Space Sim genre would still be alive if they didn't have tutorials that tell you how to turn left, right, up and down in a monotone voice, then go on to explain in great detail your energy management system. A bit more imagination there wouldn't go amiss. I mean, why can't you start off in the middle of a giant space battle, your fighter disabled but being towed by your flight buddy, your systems gradually being fixed so you can test them out, explosions going off all around to keep you from nodding off?

[Janster]

Sigh, is there really so much lack of imagination that I have to explain what I mean by pew pew shit guns?

Let me give you an example... the ship in question in the Evo would not last 5 mins against an F-15 with missiles. I guess the shield would help, but if it could be taken down, then its screwed. Why?

Cause a) they bloody weapons are short ranged shit..
b) the weapons have soundeffects that make baby sci-fi cry.
c) they weapons are ...again lazors...unimaginative little balls of crap.
d) i'm sure you can upgrade..so they become green balls of crap later on.

Either way....its more fun to sit behind a 50 calibre mg.

[Mehrunes]

You need to play Freespace 2. Unimaginative green balls of crap my ass.

[Janster]

Yes, game runs

Sigh, I can't recommend this game to anyone, if you want something good, the open source Freespace 2 will give you more entertainment.

It has a 2d map to navigate a 3d world, I don't think it's gonna win any fans.

Cough ?

Is it too much to ask for some cooler weapons, and a bit less pew pew lazors ?

[Mehrunes]

Oh, I didn't see the first post. Most space sims are basically WWI fighter games in space including FS2 so I just don't understand what you're complaining about when you refer to short ranged weapons and fighters that an F-15 could pick apart.

[Roy Ziegler]

Cough ?

Is it too much to ask for some cooler weapons, and a bit less pew pew lazors ?

It's pretty dumb, considering the genre of this game.

I'd recommend you go play a WW1 game or a space game focused exclusively on combat, like the aforementioned Freespace 2.

[tiohn]

Someone needs to make a game where you fly around in an F-15 and then occasionally land to do some strip mining and slave trading and whatnot. Janster would totally love that game.

[Aszurom]

Didn't Origin make that in the 90s?

[krayzkrok]

I shouldn't have made fun of the tutorial. The game now refuses to do anything other than a black screen anymore. Pity, it looked interesting.

[Janster]

Tutorial worked for me, and yes tnx, I'd take that strip mining F-15 anyday over the low tech junk I'm supposedly flying in space here.

I know , its based on ww1 or maybe 2 dog fighting..but come one, its the distant future....

The guns had a semi autoaim function that was making me miss horribly in combat btw. I love how the weapons, who btw has a velocity of about 80km/h give or take...has this supercomputer to aim, that can't hit.

I know this is an indie release, but its apperant, that WW1 in space is what they are aiming for..and its boring..do you hear me..booooooooooring.

[Telefrog]

Won't run for me at all. Oh, well.

[tiohn]

DO YOU HEAR JANSTER???? BORING!

[Khoram]

Didn't Origin make that in the 90s?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/14/Space_rogue_cover.jpg

Look at that handsome devil!

[Janster]

fo'shizzle!

ok, I guess I should give an example of what I'd like to see..

Lets see, beyond visual range targeting.
anti-missile lazors for point defense.
weapons to hit stuff at in proper range.
combat drones
weapons that really go booom
Guns that just gives me that 50 calibre feeling..but in..space.

Feel free to brainstorm your brain out.

[Marcin]

Someone needs to make a game where you fly around in an F-15 and then occasionally land to do some strip mining and slave trading and whatnot. Janster would totally love that game.

Actually I'm thinking UT instagib in a giant cube, where enemies are 1px by 1px. Isn't modern combat mostly staring at radar, obtaining a lock, and firing before you ever have a remote chance of seeing the enemy?

If you read any decent space opera, FUTUAR COMBATZ is always at near-relativistic speeds across some ungodly ranges of space, which is what I guess Janster wants here. I don't really want to play that game.

Edit: to clarify, I wouldn't want to play that game as a pilot of one such ship. As a commander of a battle fleet with fighters like this as one weapon in a large tactical arsenal, sure.

[Brian Rubin]

Janster, while I appreciate your opinion and would love to see such a game, sadly I think space sims have to still cater to folks who've never played 'em and just want to shoot stuff if they're to succeed at all, hence tutorials and the simplified WWII combat-in-space model that's worked well since X-Wing and Wing Commander.

You also do need to play Freespace 2, it has some of the stuff you're describing.

[scharmers]

fo'shizzle!

ok, I guess I should give an example of what I'd like to see..

Lets see, beyond visual range targeting.
anti-missile lazors for point defense.
weapons to hit stuff at in proper range.
combat drones
weapons that really go booom
Guns that just gives me that 50 calibre feeling..but in..space.

Feel free to brainstorm your brain out.

Starshatter, then.

Or you could play one of the Harpoon variants and just pretend it's in space.

Like it or not, the space sim genre is solidly embedded in the WWI/WWII style of T&B dogfighting. Speck shooting is for modern-era flight sims, which are doing well these days too.

[Janster]

Well, I don't know, I've played some flightsims in my life, and they mostly make the spacesim genre look like a sad panda.

freelancer did up the fun ante, but now we got the current generation of 2nd rate pew pew shooters that just doesn't do it. I mean, I tried vendetta online..it actually said 'beep' when I hit enemies.

I'm aware of starshatter, I own one version of it, but maybe not the latest..it was buggy and my missions screwed up in my old one.
Still a solid effort in some cases. The idea that space sim has to be some dumbed down point and click combat is a tad sad.
And that the future is full of short range, visual combat styles with ..chaff and weapons that barely dent your opponent.

I think a modernized version of space combat, could be just as fun if done right, with the proper tools to make you able to attack and defend, even against enemies at long range.

[drake113]

I'm actually really enjoying the game, and having just been introduced to Freespace 2 via GOG a week ago, I'm liking it a lot more. Sure, there are things I don't particularly like about it, but overall, they're far eclipsed by the things I love about it. $25 well spent, if you ask me.

[Tim James]

FS2 just keeps getting better as the campaign goes on.

[krayzkrok]

For those having the blank screen problems, apparently it was an issue with the beta being mistakenly available on several download servers. The updated version works fine, and fixes a few annoying bugs I found in the main game. I'm curious enough to give this a bit more time.

[Janster]

Well, if you find a gem in there, do share.

[Roy Ziegler]

For those having the blank screen problems, apparently it was an issue with the beta being mistakenly available on several download servers. The updated version works fine, and fixes a few annoying bugs I found in the main game. I'm curious enough to give this a bit more time.

thanks, I'll put this in the OP.

[Pogo]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/14/Space_rogue_cover.jpg

Look at that handsome devil!

"Sir we need to manufacture some kind of space helmet for the sexy guy on the front cover."

"Oh for god's sake just... here, tape this fucking CB radio antenna to a motorcycle helmet and get it over with."

[Damien Neil]

Mock the cover all you want; Space Rogue was great. :>

[Eightball]

Didn't Origin make that in the 90s?

I think you flew an F-16 in that one. IF you had the computer to run it, of course ;)

[Robert Sharp]

Why do you guys keep recommending that Janster play FS2? He obviously HAS played it. It was the game he suggested people play instead of this one.

Anyway, this game looks interesting. I take it there's a lot of emphasis on trading and such? Can you set up your own businesses, as in the X series?

[Tim James]

For those having the blank screen problems, apparently it was an issue with the beta being mistakenly available on several download servers. The updated version works fine, and fixes a few annoying bugs I found in the main game. I'm curious enough to give this a bit more time.Works for me now with the copy from Gamershell, executable dated 2/4 5AM. Also, I installed it to the default c:\ location. So one of those two things did it.

[Janster]

have played freespace 2, got the open source one, its really solid action packed fun, and i just love the military style it's got, you just know your fighting a loosing war.

however, its not 100% comparable to this game, but what fs2 does in space, it does better than almost anything before it.

I guess most open end space dudes got their sim in eve online these days, I played that once, but I have started to hate games where they choose the time I play, not me.

[Gordon Cameron]

Mock the cover all you want; Space Rogue was great. :>

Space Rogue was awesome, but after the fantastic painted covers of games like Ultima III-V, Moebius, and Times Of Lore, I recall lamenting Origin's sudden choice of cheesy photo shoots for their new boxes (not only in Space Rogue, but also Windwalker and Knights of Legend).

[krayzkrok]

FS2 perfected the epic space battles. It had the best "feel" of any space sim I've played, but what it lacked was the open-ended universe - it was a fairly linear mission-based affair, and that's fine because it worked. Freelancer had great atmosphere, but the combat engine lacked the visceral nature of FS2, and its universe just wasn't open enough.

What would be great is a game with the scope of Evochron but with the pitch-perfect feel of the space battles of FS2. It's the combat that most of these non-AAA titles fail to get right, but in other respects they're doing things that their AAA competitors fall down in.

I'm getting slowly into Evochron. It definitely requires you to overlook a few of its more obvious flaws (presentation being one of them) but it certainly has that feeling of vastness which some of these other sims are lacking. Whether it'll grab me enough after 90 mins of demo time to pay $25 for it, however, remains to be seen.

[HRose]

Any quick guide for FS2? I know that there was a lot of work to improve the engine.

What's the bestest way to play it today? I remember I only tried a few tutorial missions and I didn't understand where it was all the coolness.

For some quick and fun experience the Colony Wars through PSX emulator are still great.

[Damien Neil]

I keep meaning to pick up FS2 again; I finished FS1, but somehow never got into the sequel. I'm pretty certain my old stick/throttle don't work any more, however. What's good these days in the way of flight sticks?

[Munin]

After playing Freelancer for a long, long time, the problem I've had with all the space sims afterwards - including this one - is that while they easily trump Freelancer's actual game mechanics, they simply can't match the sheer atmosphere that game was able to exude. That starts with Freelancer's design of actual space which while almost completely taking place on a 2D plane, always gave a sense of being more than just looking at a looping space wallpaper: through actual little objects floating through space, asteroids, nebulae, etc - while not being realistic, it greatly added to the immersion. Then minor stuff like radio chatter, music, etc.

Sure, Freelancer was shallow as hell, but no other space sim matched up to it in this aspect. Not this one, either, but it's a good start. I'm still hoping one of those space games the Russians keep making eventually turns out well and gets over here. Seems to be the closest chance at another good game, anyway.

[Janster]

Personally I'd love to pilot something that wasn't a jetfighter in space. However with the exception of X-series Evo has little or no budget, while Freelancer actually had a budget.

This shows ..in more ways than one, and I've been scared off getting Starshatter again, cause the bugs seems just insurmountable.

Evo has some ideas, but it all looks so horrible.

90 mins of demo almost up, given up on it, garbage sorry.

[Omniscia]

Any quick guide for FS2? I know that there was a lot of work to improve the engine.

What's the bestest way to play it today? I remember I only tried a few tutorial missions and I didn't understand where it was all the coolness.


Freespace 2 Open (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Installing_fs2_open) is all you need, man. Besides a copy of Freespace 2.

[HRose]

I spent almost a day figuring things out. There are tenths of different files to download. Now my Freespace 2 directory is 3.7Gb !!!

I also have all the FS 1 campaigns and missions ported and updated to FS 2 (including all movies, voice files and stuff), so I guess I'll play them in the proper order. It's not simple at all to get all the files and install them properly. Like making a proper install of Falcon 4, but well worth it.

The updated graphic is quite good, but it's still a bit too dark. Working the gamma high instead bleaches all colors, so I really don't know how to proper balance this.

[krayzkrok]

I've been playing the Evochron demo quite a bit (you can basically keep reinstalling it to get your 90 mins back). It's definitely got atmosphere - perhaps not Freelancer-like, but it's better than most. The radio chatter and music certainly helps with this, as does the feeling of vastness and the ability to go anywhere. However, it has a lot of little annoyances that aren't readily explained, such as why your fuel continually drops when you're docked, or how you jump to your contracts (it does tell you, only in tiny text at the top left of the screen which you keep missing until you check the forums and ask there), or that you really should never use Autopilot anywhere near any kind of hard object including planets otherwise you tend to crash right into it. It's lacking a good deal of accessibility, but once you start to figure it out you realise that yes, there's actually a potentially good game in there. I am still on the fence about whether to buy it, because usually with these open universe games I can only play as long as the illusion is maintained. Once the limits are revealed, so the immersion is lost, and I'm not convinced how long this particular illusion will last.

But yes, I'm still regarding this as better than most. It's very much in the Elite-mould: there's no infrastructure building like there is in the X-series, it's just you against the universe. There's very little story to speak of, so it's very open-ended.

[Reemul]

Personally I'd love to pilot something that wasn't a jetfighter in space. However with the exception of X-series Evo has little or no budget, while Freelancer actually had a budget.

This shows ..in more ways than one, and I've been scared off getting Starshatter again, cause the bugs seems just insurmountable.

Evo has some ideas, but it all looks so horrible.

90 mins of demo almost up, given up on it, garbage sorry.

Gotta say you are sounding like a broken record, sure we know you think it looks crap, sucks and is rubbish but really how many times do you need to tell us

[Incendiary Lemon]

Matrix released a beta patch last Fall for Starshatter that resolved the remaining stability and campaign issues. I wish it was a little bit more switchology but its a good game as it is.

[Tim James]

Gotta say you are sounding like a broken record, sure we know you think it looks crap, sucks and is rubbish but really how many times do you need to tell usDon't discourage him, I'm collecting notes for a new stream-of-consciousness novel that will make Faulkner seem like a dry history textbook.

[Janster]

Difference between early posts and later posts was 90 minutes of trying to like the game.

[Jim Hoffman]

...However, it has a lot of little annoyances that aren't readily explained, such as why your fuel continually drops when you're docked, or how you jump to your contracts (it does tell you, only in tiny text at the top left of the screen which you keep missing until you check the forums and ask there), or that you really should never use Autopilot anywhere near any kind of hard object including planets otherwise you tend to crash right into it. ...

You have to manually shut down your engines after you dock, otherwise they're still going at full blast. There was a quick little blurb about it in the tutorial that I almost missed. Dumb, I know.

And yeah, the autopilot isn't smart.. won't warn you if you're aimed at/through a planet or star, it'll just warp you right into it and Game Over.
Makes me think of Han Solo's line in Star Wars IV, what was it.. "it ain't like dustin crops back home, kid.." ?

[krayzkrok]

I actually ended up buying this, which I didn't think I would from first impressions. There's a lot that's poorly explained, confusing, and lacking in general polish when you first start the demo, but I think the core game once you're past this is a lot of fun. This is the first space sim I've bought since Freelancer so perhaps I'm parched, but it gets the feel right and that's important.

Also a factor is that the developer is continually releasing new builds and improving things directly resulting from user feedback (my own included). Already the navigation map is miles better. There's a lot of hidden tweaks in there too, for example the ability to set up your own music folder and cycle tracks classed into 3 threat levels. So yes, not exactly a promising start but persistence seems worthwhile.

[Reemul]

Difference between early posts and later posts was 90 minutes of trying to like the game.

OK, i apologies then, maybe 90 minutes isn't enough and after 5 hours you can really really hate it ;P

[Alistair]

I want to like it, but I can't find my way around. The map just defeats me. I've no idea how to get where I want to go, or where that is...

[Jim Hoffman]

Last night I had my first play session beyond tutorial.
Right away some huge text box comes up about some guy looking for his long lost brother, take some components to some coordinates. I closed it, hope it's stored in a journal somewhere.
I wanted to fly to the closest planet. Hmm, afterburners will take forever, guess I'll jump.
Open Nav, click on planet, click Launch. And Kaboom, i warped into the planet.
Reload.
Ok, this time I warp -close- to the planet, not -into- th planet.
Hey, what's that little blinking light? Is that down on the surface? Guess I'll check it out.
Hm, at max speed it's taking forever to get there. Afterburner.
Blam! Game over.. guess I hit the atmosphere too fast.
Reload.
Next time, I enter atmosphere and hey, there's a big square.. oh, it's a city! cool!
I land ok, now what?
Guess I'll buy a mining laser? sure.
Take off, leave atmosphere. Man this is taking forever. Afterburner!
Huh, that's weird, there's a Navy ship that is bracketed in red.. is he shooting at me? He is! Wait, there are THREE navy ships shooting at me! WhatdidIdo? Blam. Game over.
That's as far as I've gone, so far.

[krayzkrok]

Your experience sounds similar to my first few goes, where I got very close to uninstalling it permanently. I'm not really sure why I persisted actually because I'm not usually so patient. However, I'm glad I did.

Look at it this way, it's not very forgiving at all, nor is it very user friendly. If you can get past this frustrating barrier to entry, however, it's turning into one of the better space sims I've played in years (ie. since the last good one!). Don't forget that you start in a very crap ship with very crap... well, everything. It'll take a while before you get something decent, although the customisation options are quite impressive.



Last night I had my first play session beyond tutorial.
Right away some huge text box comes up about some guy looking for his long lost brother, take some components to some coordinates. I closed it, hope it's stored in a journal somewhere.

Ok, the huge text box is simply a beacon - fly close to that beacon again in the future and it'll give you the same recorded message. It's part of the only story questline in the game and is entirely optional.



I wanted to fly to the closest planet.Hmm, afterburners will take forever, guess I'll jump. Open Nav, click on planet, click Launch. And Kaboom, i warped into the planet.
Reload.

Forget the planets to start with, stick with the stations. If you get onto the map, zoom into the maximum level and right click on a station, you'll set the nav point for its docking bay, then you can warp (F2) straight there. Just hit BACKSPACE when the tractor beam takes hold to cut your engines. This is by far the fastest way of getting docked. It doesn't work with planetary cities however (well, it does... but that's something you learn later) and yes you have to warp to the nearest point in space to the city, then go in under maximum thrust (but not afterburners). Remember, entry into atmosphere burns up the front shields, so you can shift shield energy forward and upgrade your shields to make planetary approaches faster. As your engines are upgraded, this becomes much faster as well.



Take off, leave atmosphere. Man this is taking forever. Afterburner!

Remember to head straight up to space, it doesn't take very long.



Huh, that's weird, there's a Navy ship that is bracketed in red.. is he shooting at me? He is! Wait, there are THREE navy ships shooting at me! WhatdidIdo? Blam. Game over.
That's as far as I've gone, so far.

Ah yes, that's a known bug. If you die without creating a save point, and then hit load last save point, it will set you at the start but with zero rep with all factions... which is not a good thing! The simplest thing to do is start a new game, then hit Q to quicksave your position, then you can restart with that. Either that, or dock with the station first and then hit Q.

Trust me, the entire Sapphire system is basically there for you to figure out the game's idiosyncracies. It really needs a better intro and tutorial, more tool tips, etc, but so far the developer has released a couple of new builds which greatly improve the navigation map (right click zoom, tool tip hover eliminating that cluttered text at max zoom, jump range indicator etc). The fact that these things are being improved all the time is encouraging.

Last night I found a ringed planet, and thought I wonder if my tractor beam can scoop up water from the rings. Yeah right. Well, actually, it worked. The game's full of those kind of cool moments.

[krayzkrok]

Incidentally, the latest build (which works in demo mode also) can be found at http://www.starwraith.com/evochron_legendstest2.exe

It improves the nav map a fair bit. The developer has also just fixed the zero rep bug for the next build.

[Brian Rubin]

Thank you for putting it so eloquently, krayzkrok, as I've not had time to. :) I agree with all your points, and am enjoying the game because of these challenges. I'm honestly loving it.

[deccan]

What's combat like in this game? Is it Newtonian-physics jousting?

[krayzkrok]

It's a mix of jousting and dogfighting, at least that's the way I play it. If the enemy is distant I approach on an inertial intercept vector, strafing them on the way past and trying to avoid any missiles and/or use countermeasures. With inertia there's no main engine burn and hence missiles can't lock on easily, especially if you side-slip. I can then use afterburner to change vector and go at them again. Once they've exhausted missiles I switch to assist flight and go in close for a more traditional Wing Commander-style dogfight. I've only been involved in a handful of combat situations so far, but it's fun - especially as I got my arsed kicked soundly to start with. It's realism with enough concessions to gameplay that it works.

I haven't taken on any capital ships yet, that's going to be a different challenge. Early combat is certainly easier because you're typically close to military vessels who will come to assist you. I imagine in the more lawless systems further afield it'll be you against... well, everyone. However, by that time you should have built up a fleet. I haven't dabbled with the fleet dynamics yet, as I can't afford to hire any ships, but it sounds like it could be fun.

[Jim Hoffman]

Hmm, no more buzz in the last month? KK, does it still have legs a month later? Has anyone tried any multiplayer? Looks like you can set up a dedicated server like Freelancer.. anybody tried that yet?

I just ordered a track-clip, should arrive in about a week, and I'm looking forward to getting back into some flight/space sims.

[MMcGlumphy]

I'm curious about this one too. Tried the demo for about an hour. Liked some of what I saw, but it seemed a little rough.

[krayzkrok]

EL is definitely worth your time if you're into this genre. The biggest flaw is a lack of user-friendliness in learning the ropes, but that's really the only giveaway that this is a one-man effort. There's a lot of hidden attention to detail that's not apparent from the first few hours play (I keep finding a lot of undocumented stuff) and it demands that you put a certain amount of time into it before it starts to open up, so it could do with some attention on the learning curve front.

I've been playing this regularly since I bought it, and only recently got distracted by Quake Live, but I'm still enjoying EL. The last space sim I enjoyed was Freelancer, and EL does a better job at being open universe and at combat than that. You can't really experience proper combat from the demo, although you can turn pirate and get some idea of how it works. It's not got the visceral edge of Freespace 2 but that was very much combat-oriented. But EL combat works well because of its inertial elements, more like I-War where you can change orientation but not velocity and do some interesting manoeuvres by toggling assist on/off. And unlike Frontier you don't end up jousting (if you're doing it right).

The other plus is the forums, where the developer not only listens but implements suggestions within a couple of weeks (!) and there's a small but devoted multiplayer community. Docking bays were recently added so you can maintain multiple ship configurations, and the star map has been dramatically improved.

[flyinj]

EL is definitely worth your time if you're into this genre. The biggest flaw is a lack of user-friendliness in learning the ropes, but that's really the only giveaway that this is a one-man effort. There's a lot of hidden attention to detail that's not apparent from the first few hours play (I keep finding a lot of undocumented stuff) and it demands that you put a certain amount of time into it before it starts to open up, so it could do with some attention on the learning curve front.

I've been playing this regularly since I bought it, and only recently got distracted by Quake Live, but I'm still enjoying EL. The last space sim I enjoyed was Freelancer, and EL does a better job at being open universe and at combat than that. You can't really experience proper combat from the demo, although you can turn pirate and get some idea of how it works. It's not got the visceral edge of Freespace 2 but that was very much combat-oriented. But EL combat works well because of its inertial elements, more like I-War where you can change orientation but not velocity and do some interesting manoeuvres by toggling assist on/off. And unlike Frontier you don't end up jousting (if you're doing it right).

The other plus is the forums, where the developer not only listens but implements suggestions within a couple of weeks (!) and there's a small but devoted multiplayer community. Docking bays were recently added so you can maintain multiple ship configurations, and the star map has been dramatically improved.

Interesting. It sounds like Battlecruiser, but without the delusional and intolerable asshole.

[BaconTastesGood]

Anyone still playing this? I'm trying to figure out what the latest/greatest space simmy type games are and this was the most recent thread. How's Starshatter doing? Is it still around?

[Brian Rubin]

This is a great game that's still receiving regular updates. Sadly Starshatter has been dead for a while.

[BaconTastesGood]

It's been a while since this thread was updated, what have the updates been like and how many are still playing?

[krayzkrok]

Bear in mind this thread is about Legends, which is still awesome but Starwraith have since released Evochron: Mercenary (http://www.starwraith.com/evochronmercenary/index.htm) which appears to be Legends 2.0 and therefore the place to start. Check the QT3 thread (http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=60282) out (I haven't played it since I spent so much time with EL, although the itch is starting to return).

[BaconTastesGood]

oh, dammit, okay, moving to that thread now...