How many safety warnings do people need?

[Robert Sharp]

So I was reading about the ice storms in Kentucky, which are apparently the worst they've had in a LONG time. Very dangerous stuff. We got some of it in OH, but it only lasted a couple of days for most of us (of really bad ice, I mean). But this quote stuck out in the article about Louisville:

Louisville Mayor Jerry Abramson said four people had died in his city. Two elderly people and their special-needs adult child died because of an "improperly vented" generator, and another person died after using a charcoal grill as a heater for the house.

Full article: http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/weather/02/01/winter.weather/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

Now, I'm not sure if grills even bother to put "for outside use only". I bet they do. But they shouldn't have to. This is obvious. I mean the guy was burning charcoal inside his house, without a chimney! That's Darwin Award worthy. The generator issue is a bit more reasonable, I guess. But even there, you are talking about a gas engine, similar to your car. Everyone knows not to run the car with the garage door closed, right? So how does this stuff happen?

[Kalle]

Ignorance is everywhere.

[Nellie]

People are actually stupid enough that we need to put "do not eat" on weedkiller and "for external use only" on scissors?

[WarrenM]

So how does this stuff happen?
There will always be a segment of the population who are, frankly, stupid. They will do shit like this.

[Kael]

Everyone reading this has at one time in their life done something so stupid that they could/should have died from it but by the grace of Tammy Faye Baker they survived.

I beheld the face of stupidity, and it was me.

[Houngan]

Yeah, like those stupid people in India that burn insulation off of wiring because they need the money. Don't they know that insulation contains carcinogens? God, how stupid can they be?

For the thick amongst you: In a city of a half-million, there are going to be some people that either don't make the connection between grills and toxins, or are desperate enough that they don't care. We also had a wind storm over the summer that left over 300,000 without power for a week, bet you folks didn't even hear about that, did you? Of course, a taxi has a fenderbender in New York and it's front page news for a month.

H.

p.s. Midwestern Rage RaWWWRRR!!

[Anders Hallin]

Now, I'm not sure if grills even bother to put "for outside use only". I bet they do. But they shouldn't have to. This is obvious. I mean the guy was burning charcoal inside his house, without a chimney!
I can sort of understand that. I mean, come on, how often do people in apartment buildings have to think about these things? A lot of people have never lived in a house with a visible chimney, nor have had to think about issues like carbon monoxide build-up.

[ElGuapo]

You know when you're about to do something and you start thinking about all the consequences and safety measures and such that accompany what you're about to do? Or when you're about to do something and think "maybe I shouldn't do this, I don't fully understand this or know exactly what I'm doing".

That's the kind of internal monologue that just didn't happen here. I know everyone is special to someone else, but you have to look at it statistically. 6,881,621,490 left.

No, wait. They've already been replaced ten times over in the time it took me to write this.

[Robert Sharp]

For the thick amongst you: In a city of a half-million, there are going to be some people that either don't make the connection between grills and toxins, or are desperate enough that they don't care. We also had a wind storm over the summer that left over 300,000 without power for a week, bet you folks didn't even hear about that, did you? Of course, a taxi has a fenderbender in New York and it's front page news for a month.


That was a strange tangent. No one here is denying these things happen. You are accusing us of being thick, when we know this kind of stuff happens all the time. My question is about how to avoid it.

As for your loss of power, I was reading an article about it, which I linked above. They ARE writing about it, and it IS a national headline. I remember the problem you had over the summer too, yes. You aren't being ignored.

[Bahimiron]

I remember when I was in college I worked at a hardware store and our most popular hammer was one which actually had instructions on how to use the hammer printed in icons on the side. I always thought that was handy.

[WarrenM]

The day I saw a phone number for a help hotline on a tube of toothpaste was the day I sort of stopped noticing warning labels. They're on absolutely everything.

[MikeJ]

It's a tough problem because the people who are careless enough to do the really stupid stuff probably aren't in the habit of carefully reading warning labels.

[Lorini]

If you thought you were going to freeze to death, and all you had was a charcoal grill, what would you do? I'd go for the grill if I started getting frostbite, and take my chances.

[Marged]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the problem here (certainly in the second case) is poverty and not stupidity.

[Enidigm]

I nearly killed myself as a young college student in a garage apartment on a cold winter night by shutting all the windows in the deluxe shoebox and running the gas heater all night long. Next day i had the funkiest headache, i could barely breathe, and felt so sick it was all i could do to drive. I spent the next day half asleep under trees in a public park. I never ran the heater again, and just used a crappy electric space heater that took several hours to heat the room.

I knew that carbon monoxide was dangerous but i figured it wouldn't be bad if i did it for just a few hours...

[Morberis]

So which one of you is going to live Hitchhiker's Guide style?

Personally though I don't think there's anything you can do, there is always going to be people that don't or can't read, don't know about the relevant dangers, and who have no ability to think things through.

[MikeJ]

If you thought you were going to freeze to death, and all you had was a charcoal grill, what would you do? I'd go for the grill if I started getting frostbite, and take my chances.

Using the grill without serious ventillation is just slitting your throat. Anyway, I don't think people who took reasonable precautions were in danger of freezing to death in this case. The people who died used improper heating, but no one apparently died of hypothermia. I don't think you can really make the case that this was the person's only option for survival.

[Aeon221]

If you thought you were going to freeze to death, and all you had was a charcoal grill, what would you do? I'd go for the grill if I started getting frostbite, and take my chances.

I'd burn down my neighbor's house, duh.

[RobotPants]

If you thought you were going to freeze to death, and all you had was a charcoal grill, what would you do? I'd go for the grill if I started getting frostbite, and take my chances.

If you're inside a house, you aren't going to freeze to death.

[Marged]

If you're inside a house, you aren't going to freeze to death.

Not true! Some old man just froze to death in Michigan because he couldn't pay his heating bills.

[Tim James]

I'd burn down my neighbor's house, duh.That reminds me of the news story in Atlanta over Christmas where some poor guy had his oven on to stay warm, got in the shower, and then burned down a small apartment/townhouse building. I bet the neighbors were a little upset.

[Bad Neighbor]

A couple years ago I was in a department store and overhead a lady telling what I assume was her son to not use yarn to stitch up a cut. She was having a hard time convincing him to rethink his strategy.

[Lunch of Kong]

If you're inside a house, you aren't going to freeze to death.

You will if you live in a northern climate and it's winter. Unless you're a troll, in which case you'll just regenerate your frostbitten limbs when the temperatures return to above freezing.

[walTer]

Not sure if anyone noticed but there was a Bridgestone tire commercial on the game yesterday- the one with the MOON rover ... ON THE MOON.... with a little blurb on the bottom---"professional driver on a closed course etc..." So I guess we need to be told that driving fast on the moon is, uh, unsafe?

[Tim James]

I actually wondered where they were filming that. I remember watching a TV show about a place that commercials and movies and shows** typically do all their moon scenes.

** AND THE US GOVERNMENT!!!! :)

[Demon G Sides]

Not sure if anyone noticed but there was a Bridgestone tire commercial on the game yesterday- the one with the MOON rover ... ON THE MOON.... with a little blurb on the bottom---"professional driver on a closed course etc..." So I guess we need to be told that driving fast on the moon is, uh, unsafe?

I think it was more towards the idea that they were recklessly driving across dangerous terrain.

Jackass is what caused these sorts of things to need a warning label; stupid kids doing stupid shit and then their parents suing whoever made the stupid thing or gave them the stupid idea.

[Tim James]

The punchline in that commercial didn't make as much sense as the Mr. Potato Head one. They were off-roading (okay, with you so far), and then their wheels got stolen. Buy Bridgestone!

[Aeon221]

That reminds me of the news story in Atlanta over Christmas where some poor guy had his oven on to stay warm, got in the shower, and then burned down a small apartment/townhouse building. I bet the neighbors were a little upset.

Hey man... that... that totally wasn't me. I, uh, I swear.

[Aeon221]

You will if you live in a northern climate and it's winter. Unless you're a troll, in which case you'll just regenerate your frostbitten limbs when the temperatures return to above freezing.

Not if someone attempts to warm you with fire!

[RobotPants]

You will if you live in a northern climate and it's winter. Unless you're a troll, in which case you'll just regenerate your frostbitten limbs when the temperatures return to above freezing.

Maybe. If you're really stupid and have no winter clothing or blankets or anything in your thin-walled house with the windows open. Also, this story happened in Kentucky.

[Robert Sharp]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the problem here (certainly in the second case) is poverty and not stupidity.

That's a pretty thin limb. What makes you think poor people are more susceptible to power outages and more likely to use a grill to solve them? I know you mean to defend the poor in this case, but your supposition actually reads as patronizing to me right now. Again, I know you don't mean it that way, but this is a case where power lines are down due to ice. Why would poor people be any more or less likely to do something stupid to solve the problem? Or more or less reckless or whatever word better fits a poverty situation in this case?

[Sarkus]

There was a cold spell in Seattle a few years ago which was accompanied with widespread power outages due to a windstorm. There were a ridiculously high number of carbon monoxide poisoning incidents, including some deaths, because of people using their grills as heat sources.

So sometimes people are just not very logical in their thinking or simply don't understand the risks. And carbon monoxide poisoning is hard to detect when its happening.

[Jason McCullough]

The day I saw a phone number for a help hotline on a tube of toothpaste was the day I sort of stopped noticing warning labels. They're on absolutely everything.

That's there for panicky parents when their kids eat a bunch. What's wrong with it?

Why would poor people be any more or less likely to do something stupid to solve the problem?

Income is a proxy for education; education is a proxy for whether you know that carbon monoxide will kill you in an enclosed space. Lots of people don't.

[merryprankster]

There was a cold spell in Seattle a few years ago which was accompanied with widespread power outages due to a windstorm. There were a ridiculously high number of carbon monoxide poisoning incidents, including some deaths, because of people using their grills as heat sources.

So sometimes people are just not very logical in their thinking or simply don't understand the risks. And carbon monoxide poisoning is hard to detect when its happening.

Except that when hypothermia sets in brain function is affected.

[Marged]

That's a pretty thin limb. What makes you think poor people are more susceptible to power outages and more likely to use a grill to solve them? I know you mean to defend the poor in this case, but your supposition actually reads as patronizing to me right now. Again, I know you don't mean it that way, but this is a case where power lines are down due to ice. Why would poor people be any more or less likely to do something stupid to solve the problem? Or more or less reckless or whatever word better fits a poverty situation in this case?

I didn't mean to be patronizing (though who does!) I'm not going as far as McCullough and linking this to educational status. It's just that I dated a fireman years ago and he told me tons of stories about people building fires in inner city apartments because they couldn't afford their heating bills. It's that poor people with few resources get desperate in the cold and do unsafe things to keep warm. I don't think struggling to survive makes you eligible for the Darwin award, except perhaps in the most literal and least funny sense.

And I was too lazy to read the linked stories. And I had the poor Michigan man's fate on my mind.

[jpinard]

Charcoal makes the house smell yummy.

[WarrenM]

That's there for panicky parents when their kids eat a bunch. What's wrong with it?
It didn't say for emergencies or medical problems (although that's probably what it actually IS for). It said it was for questions. Questions about toothpaste.

[wisefool]

Charcoal makes the house smell yummy.

Look, no matter what the people at Western Forestry say, paper products are NOT a great source of fiber.

I get a kick when I read cashew jars say "MAY CONTAIN NUTS". They BETTER contain nuts, I paid for them.

[Sarkus]

Except that when hypothermia sets in brain function is affected.

It wasn't cold enough for anyone to suffer from hypothermia unless they had no sense to pull a blanket over themselves. It was just cold by Seattle standards, but the overnight lows were still above freezing.

[Robert Sharp]

Income is a proxy for education; education is a proxy for whether you know that carbon monoxide will kill you in an enclosed space. Lots of people don't.

OK, but I'm pretty sure I didn't learn that during my fancy schooling. I like Marged's version better, where people get desperate. But it doesn't really apply in this case, because it isn't about whether people can pay their heating bills. The power is out...for everyone.

[Sarkus]

Blaming it all on a lack of education seems simplistic to me. There are lots of people who don't have a lot of formal education who are still smart enough to know things we "educated" people don't have a clue about. Plus if you pay attention to the world around you by watching or reading the news you should pick up on a lot of things, such as the risks of carbon monoxide poisoning.

That said some things are more obvious based on where you grow up. Many basic survival skills we learn from our family's growing up rather than via formal education. Reminds me of the recent story about the couple from Oklahoma who moved to Montana last year and weren't prepared at all for the harsh winters, with tragic results (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-woman-freezes-to-death-in-remote-montana-cabin/article/3341579). Someone who grew up in Oklahoma obviously has some different survival skills then someone who grew up in Montana.

[Talisker]

I get a kick when I read cashew jars say "MAY CONTAIN NUTS". They BETTER contain nuts, I paid for them.
Cashews are seeds, you'd be angry if it actually was full of nuts :)

[merryprankster]

It wasn't cold enough for anyone to suffer from hypothermia unless they had no sense to pull a blanket over themselves. It was just cold by Seattle standards, but the overnight lows were still above freezing.

Oh, then yeah those people are idiots.

[Jason McCullough]

It didn't say for emergencies or medical problems (although that's probably what it actually IS for). It said it was for questions. Questions about toothpaste.

Oh, really? Beats me then. It isn't a warning label in that case, though, is it?

[wisefool]

Cashews are seeds, you'd be angry if it actually was full of nuts :)

Darnit, Planters calls them cashew nuts! FALSE ADVERTISING!

I remember the fruit. It has a clean, slightly citric taste and the texture of a bell pepper. It's tasty and supposed to be nutritious - I remember a big Haitian fella that told me you just drank the juice and you wouldn't have to eat the whole day. I've seen the cashew fruit in the NYC area recently so they may be importing them to colder climates now (according to Wiki it's hard to export because it does not travel well.) Keep an eye out for it!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/ea/Mature_cashew.JPG/400px-Mature_cashew.JPG

WARNING:THE "FRUIT" IS NOT ACTUALLY A FRUIT MAY OR MAY NOT CONTAIN NUTS

[ElGuapo]

According to Marged, the poor are dumb. So these kinds of things just counteract the poor dumb breeding too much. Or, the reversal, breeding too early and too often and keep them in poverty. Maybe the neighbors will learn not to use their grills indoors?

We can only hope. We need to keep the idiot population up high!

[Marged]

That's the exact opposite of what I was saying. My point was that the poor are not dumb, but that desperation drives anyone (including the smart) to dangerous things.

[merryprankster]

It didn't say for emergencies or medical problems (although that's probably what it actually IS for). It said it was for questions. Questions about toothpaste.

"So do I wet the brush and then apply the toothpaste, or do I apply the toothpaste and then wet the whole package?"

"Toothpaste should be applied to the brush prior to wetting ,sir"

"Wow, thanks, your a life saver!"

[WarrenM]

"Do I eat the entire tube or just a few spoonfuls?"

"Sir?"

[Demon G Sides]

I wet, paste, wet, brush, wet.

Am I weird?

[Lunch of Kong]

I wet, paste, brush, rinse.

In my experience, wetting after the paste has been supplied can sometimes dislodge the paste from the bristle surfaces.

[Demon G Sides]

Well, I use a gel, not so much a paste, fwiw, which seems to be a bit grippier, and I only wet with a slow trickle, not torrents of water.

And the last wet is indeed, a rinse.

[Robert Sharp]

Wet, paste, wet, brush, rinse. That is proper. The second wet seals it into the brush a bit, preventing accidental discharge from the brushing unit.

[Pogo]

My question is about how to avoid it.
Why would we want to do that?

I knew that carbon monoxide was dangerous but i figured it wouldn't be bad if i did it for just a few hours...
There's some kind of irony here in connection with your user name.

You will if you live in a northern climate and it's winter. Unless you're a troll, in which case you'll just regenerate your frostbitten limbs when the temperatures return to above freezing.
If humanity has been surviving for hundreds of thousands of years without space heaters, I'm pretty sure you can do alright in our world of windproof wooden boxes and synthetic fiber comforters.

And not knowing carbon monoxide is poisonous is retarded. If the failure to read basic instructions and warning labels on your newly purchased charcoal grill means you might do something like use it inside to poison your whole fucking family, then I'm glad you just purged yourself from the gene pool.

[shift6]

Dammit Pogo you interrupted the stream of toothpaste instructions and I lost track. Now I'm all confused.

[Drastic]

Wet toothbrush first, then put the space heater on it. Rewetting is optional.

[Lunch of Kong]

Yeah, pogo. Just for that, I'm gonna brush DRY next time. That'll teach you.

[Pogo]

Shit I didn't even know this was on the second page.

And talking about brushing teeth. I hear you're not supposed to wet the paste after you put it on the bristles, as the water will dull down the initial coarseness of the paste.

[Jon Rowe]

paste, then wet, then brush, then rinse, then put over a barbecue unit in your living room and cook to a nice golden brown

[Flowers]

Oh, that's nothing, one time my dad took my family on a rafting trip, even though there was going to be a huge earthquake, like, the greatest earthquake ever known. So there we were, high on the rapids when it hit us, and it popped us over this water fall and we ended up like a thousand feet below. It was crazy, anyway, I forget what consumer product I misused, but I guess this is my way of saying that I spent most of my teenage years running from reptile people.

[Rasputin]

God, Flowers, why run? Those are some slow-ass reptile people. Does your love of extra effort extend to wet, paste, wet, paste, wet, brush, paste, rinse?

[SolomonGrundy]

Personal favorite is still the 'contents may be hot' on coffee cups.

[Flowers]

Man, I had to embroider that on all my shirts just now. Thank God I am tits with a needle and thread.

[krise madsen]

It just happened in Denmark: Four people hospitalized after lighting up the grill inside. They figured it was too cold outside for a BBQ, so they just took the grill inside. For shame, fellow countrymen, for shame!

Respectfully

krise madsen

[Wisbechlad]

In Hong Kong favoured method of suicide is charcoal grill/ heater indoors. Well, the flats are small, easy to seal, and convential wisdom has it that it is painless - fall asleep and don't wake up

[Robert Sharp]

Is conventional wisdom right in this case?

[Hanzii]

Is conventional wisdom right in this case?

Yes.
If you can deal with the smoke, which will of course make you cough and hurt your throat, then carbonmonoxide is called the silent killer for a reason.

It binds better to your blood than oxygen, so you'll be oxygen deprived, fall asleep and won't wake up. If you do wake up you'll have a killer headache and other nasty side effects, though.

*please don't read this as suicide advice - apart from hurting others, building a small fire inside as a suicide method also runs the risk of burning down the building, which is a crappy way to treat your neighbours*

[Robert Sharp]

I'm not suicidal; just curious.

[Hanzii]

I didn't think you were. This was just my boilerplate "I am not a suicide doctor" caveat.