NFL Divisional Round [Archive] - Quarter To Three Forums

Talisker

01-06-2009, 02:14 PM

1. Hanacker 4-0 (100%) BAL PIT CAR NYG

2. King Lupid 3-1 (75%)
2. Mr_PeaCH 3-1 (75%)
2. Robert Sharp 3-1 (75%) TEN PIT CAR PHI
2. Ryan A 3-1 (75%)
2. Troy S Goodfellow 3-1 (75%) TEN PIT CAR NYG

7. balut 2-2 (50%) BAL PIT CAR NYG
7. Bill Dungsroman 2-2 (50%) TEN PIT CAR NYG
7. Contrai 2-2 (50%) TEN PIT CAR PHI
7. Greedo 2-2 (50%) TEN SD CAR PHI
7. Jon_Danger 2-2 (50%) TEN PIT CAR NYG
7. Juan Rayo 2-2 (50%) TEN PIT CAR NYG
7. Lorini 2-2 (50%) TEN PIT CAR PHI
7. Mark Crump 2-2 (50%) BAL PIT ARI PHI
7. maygaess 2-2 (50%) TEN PIT CAR NYG
7. Mean Dr. Lily 2-2 (50%) TEN PIT CAR NYG
7. Not One Of Us 2-2 (50%) BAL SD ARI PHI
7. NuclearWinter 2-2 (50%)
7. *Rimbot 2-2 (50%) BAL PIT CAR PHI
7. Shmtur 2-2 (50%)
7. Wallapuctus 2-2 (50%) BAL PIT CAR PHI
7. wildpokerman 2-2 (50%) TEN PIT ARI NYG

23. BennyProfane 1-3 (25%)
23. BlueJackalope 1-3 (25%) TEN SD CAR NYG
23. ColonelT 1-3 (25%)
23. Crispus 1-3 (25%) BAL PIT CAR NYG
23. Dave Perkins 1-3 (25%)
23. delirium 1-3 (25%) TEN PIT CAR NYG
23. Kid Socrates 1-3 (25%)
23. Matt Perkins 1-3 (25%) TEN PIT CAR NYG
23. nixon66 1-3 (25%)
23. Omniscia 1-3 (25%) TEN PIT CAR PHI
23. sluggo 1-3 (25%)
23. Talisker 1-3 (25%) TEN PIT CAR NYG

35. Sarkus 0-4 (0%)
35. Squirrel Killer 0-4 (0%)

====== week 2 pick stats ======

# of picks per team:

BAL 7 @ TEN 16

SD 3 @ PIT 20
(SD: BlueJackalope, Greedo, Not One Of Us)

ARI 3 @ CAR 20
(ARI: Mark Crump, Not One Of Us, wildpokerman)

PHI 9 @ NYG 14

The QT3 consensus:
TEN PIT CAR NYG

Maverick ratings (# of picks that differ with the QT3 consensus):
4: Not One Of Us
3: Mark Crump
2: *Rimbot, Greedo, Wallapuctus
1: balut, BlueJackalope, Contrai, Crispus, Hanacker, Lorini, Omniscia, Robert Sharp, wildpokerman
0: Bill Dungsroman, delirium, Jon_Danger, Juan Rayo, Matt Perkins, maygaess, Mean Dr. Lily, Talisker, Troy S Goodfellow

No picks entered: BennyProfane; ColonelT; Dave Perkins; Kid Socrates; King Lupid; Mr_PeaCH; nixon66; NuclearWinter; Ryan A; Sarkus; Shmtur; sluggo; Squirrel Killer

Rimbo

01-06-2009, 02:47 PM

Ravens at Titans
Cardinals at Panthers
Eagles at Giants
Chargers at Steelers

Philadelphia and Baltimore? Sometimes I just don't know what this silly computer is thinking.

Contrai

01-06-2009, 03:11 PM

Ravens at Titans
Cardinals at Panthers
Eagles at Giants
Chargers at Steelers

Greedo

01-06-2009, 03:17 PM

Ravens at Titans
Cardinals at Panthers
Eagles at Giants
Chargers at Steelers

BlueJackalope

01-06-2009, 03:20 PM

Ravens at Titans - Baltimore looked hungry last week, I just dont think the Titans are the Dolphins (who wasn't who I thought they were anyway).
Cardinals at Panthers
Eagles at Giants - Super hard to pick, Philly has looked a lot better and the Giants just haven't looked the same ever since 'Plex decided to buck lead at his thigh up in the club. Still, Giants at home.
Chargers at Steelers - Little bit of a heart over head pick. But if LT stays on the bench and Sproles plays the whole game the Chargers should have enough. But then they should have had enough all season. I should change my pick...I'm changing my pick. Nope, I need a road team, between the Chargers and Eagles I'm pickin the Chargers.

Hard to pick any of these games, other than the Cards/Panthers.

Hanacker

01-06-2009, 03:22 PM

Ravens at Titans
Cardinals at Panthers
Eagles at Giants
Chargers at Steelers

Guess I'll play it safe with the lead this week. And since almost nobody is going to pick Zona and SD, I can still root for them without losing much ground.

Crispus

01-06-2009, 05:39 PM

Ravens at Titans
Cardinals at Panthers
Eagles at Giants
Chargers at Steelers

Lorini

01-06-2009, 05:41 PM

Ravens at Titans
Cardinals at Panthers
Eagles at Giants
Chargers at Steelers

Bill Dungsroman

01-06-2009, 06:49 PM

Ravens at Titans
Cardinals at Panthers
Eagles at Giants
Chargers at Steelers

sluggo

01-06-2009, 07:02 PM

Baltimore RAVENS at Tennessee - 16-13
Arizona at Carolina PANTHERS - 27-10
Philadelphia at New York GIANTS - 24-17
San Diego at Pittsburgh STEELERS - 23-13

wildpokerman

01-06-2009, 07:06 PM

Ravens at Titans
Cardinals at Panthers
Eagles at Giants
Chargers at Steelers

Mark Crump

01-06-2009, 07:51 PM

Ravens at Titans
Cardinals at Panthers
Eagles at Giants
Chargers at Steelers

Erik J.

01-06-2009, 09:12 PM

Baltimore looked hungry last week, I just dont think the Titans are the Dolphins (who wasn't who I thought they were anyway).

Im not playing but... "THEY ARE WHO WE THOUGHT THEY ARE... YOU WANNA CROWN THEY ASSES, YOU CROWN 'EM!"

That will be all.

Erik J.

BennyProfane

01-07-2009, 05:29 AM

Ravens at Titans
Cardinals at Panthers
Eagles at Giants
Chargers at Steelers

ColonelT

01-07-2009, 07:54 AM

Ravens at Titans
Cardinals at Panthers
Eagles at Giants
Chargers at Steelers

Sarkus

01-07-2009, 11:18 AM

Ravens at Titans

Outside of their Superbowl year, the Ravens defense has not been able to take them all the way. Flacco can't be expected to continue to play perfectly, particularly against a very good defense.

Cardinals at Panthers

Sure, the Cards did play them tough earlier this year. However, they've generally been a bad road team to the east coast.

Eagles at Giants

The Giants have consistently been the best team this year. No reason to think they'll blow it now.

Chargers at Steelers

It's an upset pick, but for whatever reason the Chargers play better in the playoffs then in the regular season under Norv. Even with LT being hurt, they made it to the AFC Championship last year. Repeat time.

Talisker

01-07-2009, 11:31 AM

1. Hanacker 4-0 (100%) BAL PIT CAR NYG

2. King Lupid 3-1 (75%)
2. Mr_PeaCH 3-1 (75%)
2. Robert Sharp 3-1 (75%) TEN PIT CAR PHI
2. Ryan A 3-1 (75%)
2. Troy S Goodfellow 3-1 (75%) TEN PIT CAR NYG

7. balut 2-2 (50%) BAL PIT CAR NYG
7. Bill Dungsroman 2-2 (50%) TEN PIT CAR NYG
7. Contrai 2-2 (50%) TEN PIT CAR PHI
7. Greedo 2-2 (50%) TEN SD CAR PHI
7. Jon_Danger 2-2 (50%) TEN PIT CAR NYG
7. Juan Rayo 2-2 (50%) TEN PIT CAR NYG
7. Lorini 2-2 (50%) TEN PIT CAR PHI
7. Mark Crump 2-2 (50%) BAL PIT ARI PHI
7. maygaess 2-2 (50%) TEN PIT CAR NYG
7. Mean Dr. Lily 2-2 (50%) TEN PIT CAR NYG
7. Not One Of Us 2-2 (50%) BAL SD ARI PHI
7. NuclearWinter 2-2 (50%) TEN PIT CAR NYG
7. *Rimbot 2-2 (50%) BAL PIT CAR PHI
7. Shmtur 2-2 (50%) BAL PIT CAR PHI
7. Wallapuctus 2-2 (50%) BAL PIT CAR PHI
7. wildpokerman 2-2 (50%) TEN PIT ARI NYG

23. BennyProfane 1-3 (25%) TEN PIT CAR NYG
23. BlueJackalope 1-3 (25%) TEN SD CAR NYG
23. ColonelT 1-3 (25%) TEN PIT CAR NYG
23. Crispus 1-3 (25%) BAL PIT CAR NYG
23. Dave Perkins 1-3 (25%)
23. delirium 1-3 (25%) TEN PIT CAR NYG
23. Kid Socrates 1-3 (25%) BAL PIT CAR NYG
23. Matt Perkins 1-3 (25%) TEN PIT CAR NYG
23. nixon66 1-3 (25%)
23. Omniscia 1-3 (25%) TEN PIT CAR PHI
23. sluggo 1-3 (25%) BAL PIT CAR NYG
23. Talisker 1-3 (25%) TEN PIT CAR NYG

35. Sarkus 0-4 (0%) TEN SD CAR NYG
35. Squirrel Killer 0-4 (0%)

====== week 2 pick stats ======

# of picks per team:

BAL 10 @ TEN 20

SD 4 @ PIT 26
(SD: BlueJackalope, Greedo, Not One Of Us, Sarkus)

ARI 3 @ CAR 27
(ARI: Mark Crump, Not One Of Us, wildpokerman)

PHI 10 @ NYG 20

The QT3 consensus:
TEN PIT CAR NYG

Maverick ratings (# of picks that differ with the QT3 consensus):
4: Not One Of Us
3: Mark Crump
2: *Rimbot, Greedo, Shmtur, Wallapuctus
1: balut, BlueJackalope, Contrai, Crispus, Hanacker, Kid Socrates, Lorini, Omniscia, Robert Sharp, Sarkus, sluggo, wildpokerman
0: BennyProfane, Bill Dungsroman, ColonelT, delirium, Jon_Danger, Juan Rayo, Matt Perkins, maygaess, Mean Dr. Lily, NuclearWinter, Talisker, Troy S Goodfellow

No picks entered: Dave Perkins; King Lupid; Mr_PeaCH; nixon66; Ryan A; Squirrel Killer

Omniscia

01-07-2009, 06:50 PM

The Giants have consistently been the best team this year. No reason to think they'll blow it now.
time.

Although they did lose 3 of their last 4 games, one of which was against Philadelphia.

delirium

01-07-2009, 07:54 PM

Although they did lose 3 of their last 4 games, one of which was against Philadelphia.

Well, the Minnesota loss was only a one point loss after a field goal in the final seconds. And they were using their second-string players for the last half of the game. Also, the win was against the mighty Carolina Panthers.

As a Giants fan, I'm still a little nervous going into this game.

Shmtur

01-07-2009, 09:51 PM

Ravens at Titans
Cardinals at Panthers
Eagles at Giants
Chargers at Steelers

Omniscia

01-07-2009, 09:55 PM

As a Giants fan, I'm still a little nervous going into this game.

As a Pats fan, I'm still a little bitter about last year... Less about the Giants winning than about the Pats failing to sack Eli, though.

The Giants are a good team. Feagles scares the hell out of me with his ability to down punts.

Killzig

01-08-2009, 06:09 AM

NuclearWinter

01-08-2009, 06:37 AM

Ravens at Titans
Cardinals at Panthers
Eagles at Giants
Chargers at Steelers

Robert Sharp

01-08-2009, 06:46 AM

As a Steelers' fan I have to ask what the hell it is in this team you guys are seeing that I don't... Arians is terrible, Ben's shoulder has been a factor all season and as of late he hasn't been taking care of the ball (fumbling on a QB sneak? WTF) and Farrior/Foote are the worst ILBs I can remember us ever having. Foote makes Levon Kirkland look fleet of foot FFS. I'm having nightmares about what Sproles is going to do to him. Lucky for us that Gates is limited or else that'd be a huge liability too.

And yet, you have the best defense in the league. It's no coincidence that the top defenses are represented in the playoffs. Steelers, Ravens, Titans, Eagles, Vikings...all great defenses. That's so critical. People get enamored by offense, but defense is clearly more important. The Steelers, Ravens, and Titans are not very good on offense, but all three teams are scary.

Killzig

01-08-2009, 07:02 AM

This defense is always near the top, we play the Bungles and Browns 4x a year.

Robert Sharp

01-08-2009, 07:42 AM

Heh. Yeah, that helps. And the Ravens offense isn't exactly stellar either. I'm glad you recognize that those teams pad your stats. However, you also played some good offenses this year and held your own pretty well.

On another topic, the Cowboys plan to release Pacman Jones. I seem to recall arguing with someone around here last year that the trade was better for the Titans than the Cowboys. A few people agreed with me, but many thought the Titans got taken by the Cowboys. Final tally for Cowboys: gave up 4th round pick in 08 draft; gained 5th round pick from Titans in 09 draft (late round pick, obviously). Had one of the worst return games in NFL (thanks in no small part to Pacman); got terrible CB play from him too, potentially costing them a couple of games. Final tally for Titans: Gained 4th rounder in 08 draft (Lavelle Hawkins, WR Cal); lost 5th round pick in upcoming 09 draft. Cleared cap space from Jones and eliminated huge distraction.

Year of both teams:

Cowboys-after ridiculous hype, including a Hard Knocks documentary and seemingly ubiquitous predictions of a SB year, they missed the playoffs and are reeling as a team, thinking about purging staff and players.

Titans- #1 seed in the AFC, with better CB play than they had when Pacman was there (but worse punt return stats, though not by that much). Final status for the year is unknown.

Killzig

01-08-2009, 08:03 AM

The worst part of the story is that Pacman's on field performance (or lack thereof) has nothing to do with why he's being cut.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3817195

Jones' release came after "Outside the Lines" reporter John Barr contacted the NFL, the Cowboys and Jones' attorneys about a piece scheduled to air Sunday in which three Atlanta-area men allege that Jones arranged for someone to shoot at them two months after the football player was suspended by NFL commissioner Roger Goodell in 2007.

The June 2007 shooting occurred outside a suburban Atlanta strip club. One of the shooting victims told "Outside the Lines" that he had a dispute with Jones inside the strip club and that not long after he and the two others left the club, a hail of bullets struck their car. The NFL knew about that incident, but charges were never brought against anyone because the victims did not see the shooter.

"Outside the Lines" obtained information that police, investigating a separate Atlanta-area case, had been told by an informant that Jones ordered the June 2007 shooting following his dispute with one of the men. Police have said that while the case remains open, they are not actively investigating.

What was the name of that ESPN soap opera the NFL killed because they thought it 'too sleazy'?

Matt Bowyer

01-08-2009, 08:21 AM

Ravens at Titans
Cardinals at Panthers
Eagles at Giants
Chargers at Steelers

Mike O'Malley

01-08-2009, 08:27 AM

What was the name of that ESPN soap opera the NFL killed because they thought it 'too sleazy'?

Playmakers. It kicked ass.

Dave Perkins

01-08-2009, 08:38 AM

Ravens at Titans
Cardinals at Panthers
Eagles at Giants
Chargers at Steelers

Rimbo

01-08-2009, 11:18 AM

This defense is always near the top, we play the Bungles and Browns 4x a year.

Yes, but if you look at the Rimbot's statistics, it's not just that they're playing teams with bad offenses. It's that they are holding teams to 2/3 of their typical offensive output (http://rimbosity.com/nfl/scores_divisional.html) on average. So while they played 4 games against bad offenses, they held those bad offenses to less than even those bad offenses typically scored. That shows up in the "factor" that the Rimbot calculates.

Because it takes this "strength of the opposition" into account, the Rimbot's "factor" calculation tells you more about how good a defense or offense is than any of the usual statistics you see. What you see from those numbers is that San Diego is a good offense with a slightly better-than-average defense, and Pittsburgh is a slightly-better-than-average offense with a phenomenal defense.

But the "factor" has to also be taken into consideration with the std. dev. The bigger that number is, the less reliable the prediction is. And what you notice is that here at the end of the season, the standard deviations are HUGE and utterly massive, with the exception of the one on Tennessee's defensive factor, which is merely very large.

When you take that into account, what you really get is that Pittsburgh, with a factor of 65% and a std. dev. of about 35%, is going to allow somewhere between 30%-100% of San Diego's average points scored of 27 -- so somewhere between 8 and 27 points. And then San Diego is going to score between 70%-175% of the 14 points Pittsburgh usually allows, so anywhere between 10-25 points. The Rimbot picks a value right in the middle of those two ranges, and guesses that San Diego will score 17 points, but in reality we're looking at a pretty broad range of likely points scored assuming that San Diego performs the way they have on average this season.

So if I've explained this correctly and you've understood it, you'll reach the conclusion that Bill Dungsroman made earlier: Sports is a sucker's bet.

BlueJackalope

01-08-2009, 11:38 AM

The worst part of the story is that Pacman's on field performance (or lack thereof) has nothing to do with why he's being cut.

Why this stupid asshole isn't in jail already for participating in a shooting that left a man paralyzed baffles me.

Jerry Jones ladies and gentlemen.

nixon66

01-08-2009, 03:39 PM

Ravens at Titans
Cardinals at Panthers
Eagles at Giants
Chargers at Steelers

Had to toss Arizona in as a spoiler pick since last week my picks were so awful.

Ryan A

01-08-2009, 03:39 PM

Ravens at Titans
Cardinals at Panthers
Eagles at Giants
Chargers at Steelers

Hanacker

01-08-2009, 03:46 PM

Why does Rimbot pick both away teams when it expects the score to be tied?

Rimbo

01-08-2009, 04:02 PM

Why does Rimbot pick both away teams when it expects the score to be tied?

It's picking based on a sub-point difference, e.g. it actually calculates that Baltimore will score 17.03 points, and Tennessee will score 16.91; Philly will get 23.29 points, and the Giants 22.97.

WARimbot makes the same team picks, but by a greater point margin.

cornfuzed

01-08-2009, 06:19 PM

Ravens at Titans
Cardinals at Panthers
Eagles at Giants
Chargers at Steelers

Sorry...fixed.

Talisker

01-08-2009, 11:17 PM

Ravens
Panthers
Eagles
Steelers
If you want your picks to be scored alongside everyone else's, you gotta boldface them like everyone else -- the scoring script won't pick 'em up otherwise.

Bill Dungsroman

01-09-2009, 08:13 AM

I seem to recall arguing with someone around here last year that the trade was better for the Titans than the Cowboys.

What morons said that? The Titans could have gotten a waterboy for Pacman and I would have considered it a win for Tennessee.

I recall you arguing that absolutely none of the charges that had ever been filed against Pacman were proven in a court of law and were thus non-admissable as proof of his bad character. That was pretty funny.

Rimbo

01-09-2009, 02:34 PM

The rumors of Bob Stoops' taking a job in the NFL have turned out to be completely rejected. One official speaking on condition of anonymity said, "We already had one Marv Levy. Isn't that enough?"

Squirrel Killer

01-10-2009, 07:43 AM

Ravens at Titans
Cardinals at Panthers
Eagles at Giants
Chargers at Steelers

35. Squirrel Killer 0-4 (0%)
Oh crap, I was that horrible? Here I had been thinking all week, "Well, at least I got one right..."

Playmakers. It kicked ass.
It did. I bought the DVDs thinking it would be interesting if only as a memento of what the NFL killed, and I ended up wanting more. The only part that annoyed me was the aging WR getting hit with bogus spousal abuse charges.

Talisker

01-10-2009, 08:49 AM

1. Hanacker 4-0 (100%) BAL PIT CAR NYG

2. King Lupid 3-1 (75%)
2. Mr_PeaCH 3-1 (75%)
2. Robert Sharp 3-1 (75%) TEN PIT CAR PHI
2. Ryan A 3-1 (75%) BAL SD CAR NYG
2. Troy S Goodfellow 3-1 (75%) TEN PIT CAR NYG

7. balut 2-2 (50%) BAL PIT CAR NYG
7. Bill Dungsroman 2-2 (50%) TEN PIT CAR NYG
7. Contrai 2-2 (50%) TEN PIT CAR PHI
7. Greedo 2-2 (50%) TEN SD CAR PHI
7. Jon_Danger 2-2 (50%) TEN PIT CAR NYG
7. Juan Rayo 2-2 (50%) TEN PIT CAR NYG
7. Lorini 2-2 (50%) TEN PIT CAR PHI
7. Mark Crump 2-2 (50%) BAL PIT ARI PHI
7. maygaess 2-2 (50%) TEN PIT CAR NYG
7. Mean Dr. Lily 2-2 (50%) TEN PIT CAR NYG
7. Not One Of Us 2-2 (50%) BAL SD ARI PHI
7. NuclearWinter 2-2 (50%) TEN PIT CAR NYG
7. *Rimbot 2-2 (50%) BAL PIT CAR PHI
7. Shmtur 2-2 (50%) BAL PIT CAR PHI
7. Wallapuctus 2-2 (50%) BAL PIT CAR PHI
7. wildpokerman 2-2 (50%) TEN PIT ARI NYG

23. BennyProfane 1-3 (25%) TEN PIT CAR NYG
23. BlueJackalope 1-3 (25%) TEN SD CAR NYG
23. ColonelT 1-3 (25%) TEN PIT CAR NYG
23. Crispus 1-3 (25%) BAL PIT CAR NYG
23. Dave Perkins 1-3 (25%) BAL PIT CAR PHI
23. delirium 1-3 (25%) TEN PIT CAR NYG
23. Kid Socrates 1-3 (25%) BAL PIT CAR NYG
23. Matt Perkins 1-3 (25%) TEN PIT CAR NYG
23. nixon66 1-3 (25%) TEN PIT ARI NYG
23. Omniscia 1-3 (25%) TEN PIT CAR PHI
23. sluggo 1-3 (25%) BAL PIT CAR NYG
23. Talisker 1-3 (25%) TEN PIT CAR NYG

35. cornfuzed 0-0 (---) BAL PIT CAR PHI

36. Sarkus 0-4 (0%) TEN SD CAR NYG
36. Squirrel Killer 0-4 (0%) TEN PIT CAR PHI

====== week 2 pick stats ======

# of picks per team:

BAL 13 @ TEN 22

SD 5 @ PIT 30
(SD: BlueJackalope, Greedo, Not One Of Us, Ryan A, Sarkus)

ARI 4 @ CAR 31
(ARI: Mark Crump, nixon66, Not One Of Us, wildpokerman)

PHI 13 @ NYG 22

The QT3 consensus:
TEN PIT CAR NYG

Maverick ratings (# of picks that differ with the QT3 consensus):
4: Not One Of Us
3: Mark Crump
2: *Rimbot, cornfuzed, Dave Perkins, Greedo, Ryan A, Shmtur, Wallapuctus
1: balut, BlueJackalope, Contrai, Crispus, Hanacker, Kid Socrates, Lorini, nixon66, Omniscia, Robert Sharp, Sarkus, sluggo, Squirrel Killer, wildpokerman
0: BennyProfane, Bill Dungsroman, ColonelT, delirium, Jon_Danger, Juan Rayo, Matt Perkins, maygaess, Mean Dr. Lily, NuclearWinter, Talisker, Troy S Goodfellow

No picks entered: King Lupid; Mr_PeaCH

Robert Sharp

01-10-2009, 08:59 AM

What morons said that? The Titans could have gotten a waterboy for Pacman and I would have considered it a win for Tennessee.

I recall you arguing that absolutely none of the charges that had ever been filed against Pacman were proven in a court of law and were thus non-admissable as proof of his bad character. That was pretty funny.

Ummm. No I didn't. I've never defended his character. He's an ass. I said that without any convictions I thought the punishment was too harsh (levied by the NFL).

sluggo

01-10-2009, 01:40 PM

Even though this (Ravens / Titans) game just started, I can't help feel that this is going to be some kind of defensive epic. Maybe it's the rain and the fact that both teams are scuffling, but this already feels like a serious heavyweight fight.

Rimbo

01-10-2009, 05:06 PM

Shit.

Killzig

01-10-2009, 05:07 PM

Does delay of game not get called in the playoffs now?

Robert Sharp

01-10-2009, 05:58 PM

What a brutal way to lose a game. I'm pretty sad now. Losing is one thing, but with all those penalties and the stupid TOs? Just painful. That delay of game failure really pisses me off, too. But that's not what lost the game. The Titans had plenty of opportunity to put the game away and didn't finish. Sad.

Lorini

01-10-2009, 06:03 PM

What is this? Let's give up the ball at the goal line day? Jeezus.

Eightball

01-10-2009, 06:33 PM

Final tally for Titans: Gained 4th rounder in 08 draft (Lavelle Hawkins, WR Cal); lost 5th round pick in upcoming 09 draft. Cleared cap space from Jones and eliminated huge distraction.

While the trade was a win for the Titans because you got rid of a total team cancer, a 4th in 2008 for a 5th in 2009 is a wash, trade-value wise. Traditional wisdom holds that a draft pick in the next years draft is worth one round less than the comparable pick in this years draft, because you get to make the pick immediately.

sluggo

01-10-2009, 07:48 PM

Could this really be happening? Are the Cardinals a Philly win away from hosting the NFC Championship?

Not One Of Us

01-10-2009, 08:30 PM

YOU BET YOUR ASS.

Omniscia

01-10-2009, 08:32 PM

Okay, this is another abysmal week, so far. As far as my picks go, anyway.

Lorini

01-10-2009, 08:39 PM

Gratz Not One Of Us, you are the only one who can go 4-0 this week.

Bill Dungsroman

01-10-2009, 08:59 PM

THE CARDINALS ARE GOING TO WIN THE SUPERBOWL.

mdowdle

01-10-2009, 09:02 PM

Gratz Not One Of Us, you are the only one who can go 4-0 this week.

Crump also has a shot!

Eightball

01-10-2009, 09:04 PM

I think that is the worst I've ever see a QB play in a playoff game....wow.

Bill Dungsroman

01-10-2009, 09:06 PM

Does delay of game not get called in the playoffs now?

Mindboggling. Meanwhile, the Panthers get flagged for DoG the nanosecond the play clock hits zero.

Sarkus

01-11-2009, 12:00 AM

So what kind of prize will I get if I continue to try my hardest and still pick every game wrong? I'm 0-6 now.

Talisker

01-11-2009, 01:04 AM

====== preliminary week 2 computed results ======

1. Mark Crump 2-0 PIT PHI
1. Not One Of Us 2-0 SD PHI

3. balut 1-1 PIT NYG
3. cornfuzed 1-1 PIT PHI
3. Crispus 1-1 PIT NYG
3. Dave Perkins 1-1 PIT PHI
3. Hanacker 1-1 PIT NYG
3. Kid Socrates 1-1 PIT NYG
3. nixon66 1-1 PIT NYG
3. *Rimbot 1-1 PIT PHI
3. Ryan A 1-1 SD NYG
3. Shmtur 1-1 PIT PHI
3. sluggo 1-1 PIT NYG
3. Wallapuctus 1-1 PIT PHI
3. wildpokerman 1-1 PIT NYG

16. King Lupid 0-0
16. Mr_PeaCH 0-0

18. BennyProfane 0-2 PIT NYG
18. Bill Dungsroman 0-2 PIT NYG
18. BlueJackalope 0-2 SD NYG
18. ColonelT 0-2 PIT NYG
18. Contrai 0-2 PIT PHI
18. delirium 0-2 PIT NYG
18. Greedo 0-2 SD PHI
18. Jon_Danger 0-2 PIT NYG
18. Juan Rayo 0-2 PIT NYG
18. Lorini 0-2 PIT PHI
18. Matt Perkins 0-2 PIT NYG
18. maygaess 0-2 PIT NYG
18. Mean Dr. Lily 0-2 PIT NYG
18. NuclearWinter 0-2 PIT NYG
18. Omniscia 0-2 PIT PHI
18. Robert Sharp 0-2 PIT PHI
18. Sarkus 0-2 SD NYG
18. Squirrel Killer 0-2 PIT PHI
18. Talisker 0-2 PIT NYG
18. Troy S Goodfellow 0-2 PIT NYG

====== preliminary week 2 computed season totals ======

1. Hanacker 5-1 (83%) PIT NYG

2. Mark Crump 4-2 (67%) PIT PHI
2. Not One Of Us 4-2 (67%) SD PHI
2. Ryan A 4-2 (67%) SD NYG

5. King Lupid 3-1 (75%)
5. Mr_PeaCH 3-1 (75%)

7. balut 3-3 (50%) PIT NYG
7. *Rimbot 3-3 (50%) PIT PHI
7. Robert Sharp 3-3 (50%) PIT PHI
7. Shmtur 3-3 (50%) PIT PHI
7. Troy S Goodfellow 3-3 (50%) PIT NYG
7. Wallapuctus 3-3 (50%) PIT PHI
7. wildpokerman 3-3 (50%) PIT NYG

14. Bill Dungsroman 2-4 (33%) PIT NYG
14. Contrai 2-4 (33%) PIT PHI
14. Crispus 2-4 (33%) PIT NYG
14. Dave Perkins 2-4 (33%) PIT PHI
14. Greedo 2-4 (33%) SD PHI
14. Jon_Danger 2-4 (33%) PIT NYG
14. Juan Rayo 2-4 (33%) PIT NYG
14. Kid Socrates 2-4 (33%) PIT NYG
14. Lorini 2-4 (33%) PIT PHI
14. maygaess 2-4 (33%) PIT NYG
14. Mean Dr. Lily 2-4 (33%) PIT NYG
14. nixon66 2-4 (33%) PIT NYG
14. NuclearWinter 2-4 (33%) PIT NYG
14. sluggo 2-4 (33%) PIT NYG

28. cornfuzed 1-1 (50%) PIT PHI

29. BennyProfane 1-5 (17%) PIT NYG
29. BlueJackalope 1-5 (17%) SD NYG
29. ColonelT 1-5 (17%) PIT NYG
29. delirium 1-5 (17%) PIT NYG
29. Matt Perkins 1-5 (17%) PIT NYG
29. Omniscia 1-5 (17%) PIT PHI
29. Talisker 1-5 (17%) PIT NYG

36. Sarkus 0-6 (0%) SD NYG
36. Squirrel Killer 0-6 (0%) PIT PHI

Hanacker

01-11-2009, 01:49 AM

Fuck. I knew I should have picked Arizona but I felt like playing it safe. Oh well, who knew they were going to beat Carolina by 20 thanks to Delhomme thinking he was supposed to throw to the team in red?

Rimbo

01-11-2009, 01:54 AM

THE CARDINALS ARE GOING TO WIN THE SUPERBOWL.

Have they, in the history of the franchise, ever even made it to the NFC Championship Game?

wildpokerman

01-11-2009, 02:02 AM

Have they, in the history of the franchise, ever even made it to the NFC Championship Game?

Who is your God now Rimbot!

Rimbo

01-11-2009, 02:48 AM

Wow. So... the Cardinals are the oldest pro football organization ever, dating back to 1898. They were in Chicago up until their move to St. Louis from 1960-1987.

During that time, they have won the championship exactly twice -- once in 1947, and once in 1925. And 1925 happened by default, due to a disqualification.

Their only playoff win since 1947 came in the Wild Card game against Dallas in 1998, over ten years ago.

Wow.

wildpokerman

01-11-2009, 03:12 AM

That's like the red sox of football.

I hope they win.

Robert Sharp

01-11-2009, 05:04 AM

While the trade was a win for the Titans because you got rid of a total team cancer, a 4th in 2008 for a 5th in 2009 is a wash, trade-value wise. Traditional wisdom holds that a draft pick in the next years draft is worth one round less than the comparable pick in this years draft, because you get to make the pick immediately.

That's all correct, except that your math is wrong if you think it's a loss. That means it's a net positive for the Titans.

Also, I'm pulling for that Cards, too. It's a great story.

wildpokerman

01-11-2009, 12:08 PM

11 to 10 can you get a closer game?

merryprankster

01-11-2009, 12:40 PM

Dammit, Eagles just got a TD. 20-11 Eagles, not so close anymore, I may not have to watch any more football this season.

Sarkus

01-11-2009, 01:04 PM

I can't believe we're this close to an Eagles at Cardinals NFC Championship game.

delirium

01-11-2009, 01:09 PM

Fuck. Let's go Cardinals.

Eightball

01-11-2009, 01:11 PM

I'm absolutely glad to see Eli Manning showing his true colors in this playoff game.

That's all correct, except that your math is wrong if you think it's a loss. That means it's a net positive for the Titans.

Not sure what you mean. I said above that it's basically a wash, trade-value wise. I wasn't arguing with your conclusion, just adding some kind of substance to your draft pick discussion.

Squirrel Killer

01-11-2009, 01:14 PM

That's all correct, except that your math is wrong if you think it's a loss. That means it's a net positive for the Titans.
Um...

While the trade was a win for the Titans because you got rid of a total team cancer, a 4th in 2008 for a 5th in 2009 is a wash, trade-value wise. Traditional wisdom holds that a draft pick in the next years draft is worth one round less than the comparable pick in this years draft, because you get to make the pick immediately.
First, he says that the trade in question was a win (i.e. a "net positive") for the Titans, and then he says that the draft pick swap is a wash. No where does he say anything about the trade being a loss.

Talisker

01-11-2009, 01:18 PM

====== preliminary week 2 computed results ======

1. Mark Crump 3-0 PIT
1. Not One Of Us 3-0 SD

3. cornfuzed 2-1 PIT
3. Dave Perkins 2-1 PIT
3. *Rimbot 2-1 PIT
3. Shmtur 2-1 PIT
3. Wallapuctus 2-1 PIT

8. balut 1-2 PIT
8. Contrai 1-2 PIT
8. Crispus 1-2 PIT
8. Greedo 1-2 SD
8. Hanacker 1-2 PIT
8. Kid Socrates 1-2 PIT
8. Lorini 1-2 PIT
8. nixon66 1-2 PIT
8. Omniscia 1-2 PIT
8. Robert Sharp 1-2 PIT
8. Ryan A 1-2 SD
8. sluggo 1-2 PIT
8. Squirrel Killer 1-2 PIT
8. wildpokerman 1-2 PIT

22. King Lupid 0-0
22. Mr_PeaCH 0-0

24. BennyProfane 0-3 PIT
24. Bill Dungsroman 0-3 PIT
24. BlueJackalope 0-3 SD
24. ColonelT 0-3 PIT
24. delirium 0-3 PIT
24. Jon_Danger 0-3 PIT
24. Juan Rayo 0-3 PIT
24. Matt Perkins 0-3 PIT
24. maygaess 0-3 PIT
24. Mean Dr. Lily 0-3 PIT
24. NuclearWinter 0-3 PIT
24. Sarkus 0-3 SD
24. Talisker 0-3 PIT
24. Troy S Goodfellow 0-3 PIT

====== preliminary week 2 computed season totals ======

1. Hanacker 5-2 (71%) PIT
1. Mark Crump 5-2 (71%) PIT
1. Not One Of Us 5-2 (71%) SD

4. *Rimbot 4-3 (57%) PIT
4. Robert Sharp 4-3 (57%) PIT
4. Ryan A 4-3 (57%) SD
4. Shmtur 4-3 (57%) PIT
4. Wallapuctus 4-3 (57%) PIT

9. King Lupid 3-1 (75%)
9. Mr_PeaCH 3-1 (75%)

11. balut 3-4 (43%) PIT
11. Contrai 3-4 (43%) PIT
11. Dave Perkins 3-4 (43%) PIT
11. Greedo 3-4 (43%) SD
11. Lorini 3-4 (43%) PIT
11. Troy S Goodfellow 3-4 (43%) PIT
11. wildpokerman 3-4 (43%) PIT

18. cornfuzed 2-1 (67%) PIT

19. Bill Dungsroman 2-5 (29%) PIT
19. Crispus 2-5 (29%) PIT
19. Jon_Danger 2-5 (29%) PIT
19. Juan Rayo 2-5 (29%) PIT
19. Kid Socrates 2-5 (29%) PIT
19. maygaess 2-5 (29%) PIT
19. Mean Dr. Lily 2-5 (29%) PIT
19. nixon66 2-5 (29%) PIT
19. NuclearWinter 2-5 (29%) PIT
19. Omniscia 2-5 (29%) PIT
19. sluggo 2-5 (29%) PIT

30. BennyProfane 1-6 (14%) PIT
30. BlueJackalope 1-6 (14%) SD
30. ColonelT 1-6 (14%) PIT
30. delirium 1-6 (14%) PIT
30. Matt Perkins 1-6 (14%) PIT
30. Squirrel Killer 1-6 (14%) PIT
30. Talisker 1-6 (14%) PIT

37. Sarkus 0-7 (0%) SD

merryprankster

01-11-2009, 01:19 PM

I can't believe we're this close to an Eagles at Cardinals NFC Championship game.

Both teams named after birds......that just fucking wierd.

Killzig

01-11-2009, 02:53 PM

I don't think I've ever seen anyone attempt a fake punt w/ a run up the gut... Wow.

Hanacker

01-11-2009, 03:04 PM

So the key this week (again) was to go against the qt3 concensus. Guess that means SD is gonna win.

And Cardinals with a home game is so awesome.

Talisker

01-11-2009, 04:43 PM

====== week 2 computed results ======

1. Mark Crump 4-0

2. cornfuzed 3-1
2. Dave Perkins 3-1
2. Not One Of Us 3-1
2. *Rimbot 3-1
2. Shmtur 3-1
2. Wallapuctus 3-1

8. balut 2-2
8. Contrai 2-2
8. Crispus 2-2
8. Hanacker 2-2
8. Kid Socrates 2-2
8. Lorini 2-2
8. nixon66 2-2
8. Omniscia 2-2
8. Robert Sharp 2-2
8. sluggo 2-2
8. Squirrel Killer 2-2
8. wildpokerman 2-2

20. BennyProfane 1-3
20. Bill Dungsroman 1-3
20. ColonelT 1-3
20. delirium 1-3
20. Greedo 1-3
20. Jon_Danger 1-3
20. Juan Rayo 1-3
20. Matt Perkins 1-3
20. maygaess 1-3
20. Mean Dr. Lily 1-3
20. NuclearWinter 1-3
20. Ryan A 1-3
20. Talisker 1-3
20. Troy S Goodfellow 1-3

34. King Lupid 0-0
34. Mr_PeaCH 0-0

36. BlueJackalope 0-4
36. Sarkus 0-4

====== week 2 computed season totals ======

1. Hanacker 6-2 (75%)
1. Mark Crump 6-2 (75%)

3. Not One Of Us 5-3 (63%)
3. *Rimbot 5-3 (63%)
3. Robert Sharp 5-3 (63%)
3. Shmtur 5-3 (63%)
3. Wallapuctus 5-3 (63%)

8. balut 4-4 (50%)
8. Contrai 4-4 (50%)
8. Dave Perkins 4-4 (50%)
8. Lorini 4-4 (50%)
8. Ryan A 4-4 (50%)
8. Troy S Goodfellow 4-4 (50%)
8. wildpokerman 4-4 (50%)

15. cornfuzed 3-1 (75%)
15. King Lupid 3-1 (75%)
15. Mr_PeaCH 3-1 (75%)

18. Bill Dungsroman 3-5 (38%)
18. Crispus 3-5 (38%)
18. Greedo 3-5 (38%)
18. Jon_Danger 3-5 (38%)
18. Juan Rayo 3-5 (38%)
18. Kid Socrates 3-5 (38%)
18. maygaess 3-5 (38%)
18. Mean Dr. Lily 3-5 (38%)
18. nixon66 3-5 (38%)
18. NuclearWinter 3-5 (38%)
18. Omniscia 3-5 (38%)
18. sluggo 3-5 (38%)

30. BennyProfane 2-6 (25%)
30. ColonelT 2-6 (25%)
30. delirium 2-6 (25%)
30. Matt Perkins 2-6 (25%)
30. Squirrel Killer 2-6 (25%)
30. Talisker 2-6 (25%)

36. BlueJackalope 1-7 (13%)

37. Sarkus 0-8 (0%)

Bill Dungsroman

01-11-2009, 04:56 PM

Rimbo

01-11-2009, 05:11 PM

Not much use in arguing these things with Robert. The man is a hopeless Titans homer.

not that there's anything wrong with that

Robert Sharp

01-11-2009, 05:15 PM

Um...

First, he says that the trade in question was a win (i.e. a "net positive") for the Titans, and then he says that the draft pick swap is a wash. No where does he say anything about the trade being a loss.

Yep. My bad. I meant that a pick in 08 in the same round is considered more valuable than a pick in 09 in the same round. In other words, as Eightball stated (correctly), a pick now is worth more than the same pick next year (in draft value terms). The Titans got a 4th rounder in the 08 draft. The Cowboys will now get the Titans 5th rounder in the 09 draft. By the logic above, that's a net gain of two rounds of value from the draft perspective. It's not a wash (which I should have said instead of a 'loss').

Bill, I don't know why you always call me a Titans homer. I know a lot about the team because I am a fan. But I criticize them too. I just tend to have to point out positives around here because the Titans are a small market team that don't get many positive things said about them unless they are doing really well. There's plenty I could criticize about yesterday's game. The team seemed to lack focus, as seen in the ridiculous number of penalties. They fumbled the ball twice in scoring situations, which is disastrous and unpardonable.

Throwing the word homer around is just your way of using an ad hominem attack on me rather than debating anything I say. In fact, you tend to misremember or exaggerate everything I say about the Titans. I'm not the blind optimist you seem to believe I am. I think you are a Robert hater!

In this case, I was just pointing out that from a value perspective the trade was NOT a wash. It was a gain for the Titans based on draft value boards and how they work. I think Eightball reversed the picks in his head when he said it was a wash. I don't think he did it on purpose though.

Ryan A

01-11-2009, 05:46 PM

Bill misuses the epithet of homer like P&R posters misuse troll.

Eightball

01-11-2009, 06:00 PM

I think Eightball reversed the picks in his head when he said it was a wash. I don't think he did it on purpose though.

Yeah...lol...you're right. Apologies. Though I think it was a win solely for the Titans to get something for Pacman Jones, you're absolutely right I got the draft pick value mixed up. I even said that this year's pick was more valuable (sigh).

ColonelT

01-11-2009, 06:03 PM

Gods, the only thing worse for a Browns fan would be a Steelers-Ravens-Bengals three-way AFC Championship Game. Or hiring Mangini.

Bill Dungsroman

01-11-2009, 06:25 PM

Bill, I don't know why you always call me a Titans homer. I know a lot about the team because I am a fan. But I criticize them too. I just tend to have to point out positives around here because the Titans are a small market team that don't get many positive things said about them unless they are doing really well.

How many positive things is anyone supposed to say about any team that isn't doing well? And it's fine if you point out positives, it's just when you say things like "Albert Haynesworth is the best player in the entire league!" and refuse to give the slightest bit of ground in this Pacman trade - not to mention last year, when yes you did not defend Pacman's character but you did accuse Kid Socrates of being "dangerously close to libel" as if a message board comment was admissible in a court of law or something.

Throwing the word homer around is just your way of using an ad hominem attack on me rather than debating anything I say. In fact, you tend to misremember or exaggerate everything I say about the Titans. I'm not the blind optimist you seem to believe I am. I think you are a Robert hater!

Aw, you just had to throw the motherfuckin' gauntlet down, didn't you? Like I'm not gonna pick it up.

Hurf. (http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showpost.php?p=1480239&postcount=3)

"The Titans won that game (that they really lost)!" (http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showpost.php?p=1214834&postcount=78)

"But...we're still a good team, right? RIGHT?" (http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showpost.php?p=1206468&postcount=45)

"Yeah, in your face!" (http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showpost.php?p=1093949&postcount=99)

"How DARE you say such things!" (http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showpost.php?p=986591&postcount=29)

Don't make me do these things. You can be a big-time hardcore fan if you want, it's cool. Just don't pretend you aren't, it's just silly.

nixon66

01-11-2009, 06:38 PM

Man another week where I easily could have been 1-3 but I made the spoiler pick or Arizona and it kept me 2 and 2. It's a crazy playoff season.

Who to root for with who's left? I think I'll pick the Ravens. Not a Cardinals/Warner fan, the Eagles and Mr. Chunky Soup are alright, and well... being from Seattle, I don't hold any love for the Steelers. So go Flacco the rookie and the Ravens I suppose. I'll take that story I guess.

Not One Of Us

01-11-2009, 06:50 PM

Tickets for the Cardinals game next week sold out in six minutes.

We just needed to be convinced, and that stomping of Carolina at their place convinced us.

Rimbo

01-11-2009, 07:20 PM

Geez. I still can't believe how bad the Cardinals have been as a football organization. That before this year, they'd only won 1 playoff game in sixty years. That's just insanely bad. That they've lasted so long only compounds the confusion.

They are the NovaLogic of Football.

Not One Of Us

01-11-2009, 07:24 PM

It's quite easy to believe if you think of the Cardinals as being from another dimension altogether.

Ever so rarely, the dimension will align with ours.

mdowdle

01-11-2009, 07:40 PM

Tortilla

01-11-2009, 07:40 PM

Did anyone check the Cards players or coaches for goatees?

wildpokerman

01-11-2009, 08:14 PM

Did LT's wife cry after they lost. God I hope so.

Omniscia

01-11-2009, 09:07 PM

Was LT even in the game?

I'm not really interested in any of the teams that are left, but a Philly-Pittsburgh Superbowl would be exciting.

BlueJackalope

01-11-2009, 09:12 PM

====== week 2 computed results ======

36. BlueJackalope 0-4
36. Sarkus 0-4

====== week 2 computed season totals ======

36. BlueJackalope 1-7 (13%)

37. Sarkus 0-8 (0%)

I can't even win at losing.... :(

I blame my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ for my poor showing. I was prepared, and had a great gameplan. The Lord let me down.

Lorini

01-11-2009, 09:59 PM

Gratz Mark Crump, somehow I missed you with my previous post. At least I got it right today:)

The top three defensive teams in the regular season are in. The Cardinals are not one of these teams. Ergo, I'm taking the Eagles:) At least the games today weren't a chaotic mess like the ones yesterday. I thought if Delhomme threw another interception I was gonna cry for him.

Rimbo

01-11-2009, 11:04 PM

Sarkus

01-11-2009, 11:46 PM

I can't even win at losing.... :(

I blame my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ for my poor showing. I was prepared, and had a great gameplan. The Lord let me down.

Hey, at least you've gotten one right. Three road teams won this weekend, but not the one I picked.

Woot.

Robert Sharp

01-12-2009, 03:48 AM

How many positive things is anyone supposed to say about any team that isn't doing well? And it's fine if you point out positives, it's just when you say things like "Albert Haynesworth is the best player in the entire league!"

(a bunch of quotes where I defend the Titans)

People who aren't Titans fans have said the same thing about Haynesworth. He's about to become the highest defensive player in the league, most likely. I just believe he's very good. I'm not sure I said he definitely is the best player in the league though. I may have said he could be the best player, though. As for the quotes, I'm not sure you understand the word 'homer' here. Yeah, I'm pretty supportive. I'm a fan. I do try to look at the positive in every loss, as you point out. But a homer is blind to all flaws in his/her team. A homer is extremely biased. I just don't think I have those qualities, though perhaps I'm just too much of a homer to realize that I'm completely bias in every way.

Anyway, I'm really surprised so many home teams lost this weekend. Interesting that both the Giants and Titans played for nothing in week 17 of the regular season. Both teams rested players. Both came out very flat in the playoffs. I didn't know what the Panthers did that last week, so I don't know if that applies to them.

Matt Bowyer

01-12-2009, 07:14 AM

Albert Haynesworth gets mentioned for MVP or Defensive Player of the Year a lot because each time he misses time due to injury, the Titans seem to fall apart. He is very good, and he might be the best DT in football (though some people would make the argument for Shaun Rogers in Cleveland). I haven't seen enough Titans games to really know, as they're not really exciting to watch, and before the playoffs we really only saw them stomp the Chiefs here in KC, and I'm pretty sure an immobile forklift would have sacked Tyler Thigpen a few times in that game. I did enjoy Chris Johnson banging on the drums, though.

I think we all favor our home team more, with the possible exception of our Detroit fans here. I know that I'll talk up the Redskins receiving corps if given half a chance, when really they don't deserve it (except for Cooley). I think Jason Campbell's going to be really, really good at QB, even if so far he really hasn't shown it (he's better than Patrick Ramsey was, but that's not really hard to do). I even liked the DeAngelo Hall signing (and I -really- like how it was only for two years at a very low rate).

That said, as far as the Titans go, where does Vince Young go from here? Do you bring him back in and give him the starting job after his performance both on and off the field this year? Or do you resign old man Kerry Collins and ride that steam engine for as long as it goes?

Mark Asher

01-12-2009, 07:46 AM

Actually, during the 70s, the Cardinals were a pretty good football team. They just were caught in the same conference as Dallas and the Redskins, and that is why they couldn't get into the playoffs. But they were very competitive and generally in the hunt during the regular season, and I remember St. Louis being absolutely electrified the year they beat Dallas to make it into the playoffs.

Yeah, in the mid '70's the Cardinals organization finally did something right and hired Don Coryell, a football genius who probably did as much to revolutionize the game as anyone from 1970 on. They went 10-4, 11-3, and 10-4 in a division with two other playoff contenders, the Cowboys and Redskins. Then the Cards organization basically ran him out of town when they continually frustrated him by not giving him any input into the draft. Bill Bidwill is a skinflint cheapskate of an owner.

They had one of the all-time great offensive lines too -- Dan Deirdorf led that unit -- and only gave up 8 sacks one year, and the Cardinals were a passing team, too. Terry Metcalf was their big offensive weapon, probably the most elusive back I ever saw until Barry Sanders came around. Of course he fumbled all the time. Mel Gray, Jackie Smith, Jim Hart...they put on a good show.

Mark Asher

01-12-2009, 07:50 AM

That said, as far as the Titans go, where does Vince Young go from here? Do you bring him back in and give him the starting job after his performance both on and off the field this year? Or do you resign old man Kerry Collins and ride that steam engine for as long as it goes?

I'd bring back Collins if they can sign him, but I'd keep Young. The guy has some issues, but he found ways to win a lot of games.

Of course, I have no idea if Young can read defenses, goes through his progressions or just locks on, etc.

Mike O'Malley

01-12-2009, 07:52 AM

Please don't call Collins an old man, I knew him at Penn State.

Wallapuctus

01-12-2009, 07:56 AM

The Titans should go after Matt Cassel, and give us lots of draft picks for him.

Eightball

01-12-2009, 08:01 AM

I even liked the DeAngelo Hall signing (and I -really- like how it was only for two years at a very low rate).

Hall was signed for only the remainder of the 2008 season, KS. He's a free agent now, but Snyder will throw lots at him.

Oh, and I'm a big Skins fan, but I have no idea how you'd say our receiving corps is any good. Moss is a #2 receiver in all honesty, and Randle-El is a #3. And our 2 rookie WRs didn't do jack this year.

Cooley is great, though. Makes a lot of sense to draft a TE in the 2nd round when you have a young, pro bowl TE signed to a long-term (and high-value) contract already, doesn't it ;)

Matt Bowyer

01-12-2009, 08:23 AM

Hall was signed for only the remainder of the 2008 season, KS. He's a free agent now, but Snyder will throw lots at him.

Oh, and I'm a big Skins fan, but I have no idea how you'd say our receiving corps is any good. Moss is a #2 receiver in all honesty, and Randle-El is a #3. And our 2 rookie WRs didn't do jack this year.

Cooley is great, though. Makes a lot of sense to draft a TE in the 2nd round when you have a young, pro bowl TE signed to a long-term (and high-value) contract already, doesn't it ;)

Our receiving corps was really good in Madden! I look too much at potential. Twaan and Moss are both very talented, and our rookies have a lot of potential. And Cooley, of course. This is the best Moss has played since his out-of-his-head season in 2005. But yeah, they're not really that good. I know that, I just don't want to admit it.

I could've sworn Hall was a two year deal. I see I was wrong, though.

mono

01-12-2009, 09:31 AM

I'm bummed NYG got booted yesterday, but they really started to fade down the stretch. It'd be tough to top last year's heroics, so I can't complain.

Slainte Mhath

01-12-2009, 10:05 AM

So the AFC North dominates the playoffs. Big surprise there, at least the rest of the league gets to see what it feels like to be the Browns and the Bengals for a bit. Of course NOT SUCKING would help both those teams immensely during the regular season, and I say that as a die hard Bengals fan myself. =)

Still, whomever the NFC sends to the Super Bowl (and I'm guessing it'll be the Eagles) is going to have a rough time of it no matter who wins the AFC crown. Ravens have a better defense overall, but Steelers have the offense to keep the score close when their defense does slip a little. If Philly does end up in the Super Bowl McNabb is going to need his "best game ever" to overcome either opponent.

Rimbo

01-12-2009, 10:37 AM

Yeah, in the mid '70's the Cardinals organization finally did something right and hired Don Coryell, a football genius who probably did as much to revolutionize the game as anyone from 1970 on. They went 10-4, 11-3, and 10-4 in a division with two other playoff contenders, the Cowboys and Redskins. Then the Cards organization basically ran him out of town when they continually frustrated him by not giving him any input into the draft. Bill Bidwill is a skinflint cheapskate of an owner.

All of this is true. Had no idea who Don Coryell was until I was looking up (based on curiosity) some of SDSU's history as a football org, and found out how many NFL coaches either played or coached there, and discovered that most of them were Coryell and his disciples.

And St. Louis teams in general have always been about: Given the choice between being champions or being profitable, always be profitable.

Rimbo

01-12-2009, 10:40 AM

Of course, I have no idea if Young can read defenses, goes through his progressions or just locks on, etc.

He's definitely not a lock-on kind of guy; at least in college, he was very good about making his reads and hitting a variety of receivers. But obviously the NFL is much more complicated than college, and that's the question on him right now -- can he make all the reads he needs to for the NFL?

Shmtur

01-12-2009, 10:45 AM

He's definitely not a lock-on kind of guy; at least in college, he was very good about making his reads and hitting a variety of receivers. But obviously the NFL is much more complicated than college, and that's the question on him right now -- can he make all the reads he needs to for the NFL?

The answer? No. He's pretty clearly been of the Michael Vick mold - a good runner, poor passer.

Lorini

01-12-2009, 10:56 AM

All of this is true. Had no idea who Don Coryell was until I was looking up (based on curiosity) some of SDSU's history as a football org, and found out how many NFL coaches either played or coached there, and discovered that most of them were Coryell and his disciples.

And St. Louis teams in general have always been about: Given the choice between being champions or being profitable, always be profitable.

Oh how could you not know of Air Coryell?! The best times in the NFL EVAR. Dan Fouts/Kellen Winslow FTW. No they never got to the Superbowl, but who cared? They were just the best QB/Receiver (or at least the most entertaining) I can remember in the last 30 years. I was fortunate enough to attend some Raiders/Chargers games at that time and it was just pure excitement.

Rimbo

01-12-2009, 10:58 AM

The answer? No. He's pretty clearly been of the Michael Vick mold - a good runner, poor passer.

This is a guy who spent his HS and college career in pass-first offenses.

To be fair, most QBs take more than a couple of season before they get it. Whenever a QB has been forced into the role too soon, they tend to screw up; at the same time, there's tons of QBs who looked like they would ride pine their whole careers, who suddenly blossomed sometime around age 30.

This insanely long but fascinating article by Malcolm Gladwell in New Yorker magazine (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/12/15/081215fa_fact_gladwell?currentPage=all) talks about how impossible it is to predict which QBs will make the leap successfully, and compares it to the trouble schools have for judging the qualifications of good teachers.

The point is, while VY is clearly not earning his keep, he's not a failure yet, either.

Matt Bowyer

01-12-2009, 11:01 AM

The answer? No. He's pretty clearly been of the Michael Vick mold - a good runner, poor passer.

You also have to add that Young doesn't have Vick's pure athleticism. Vick is (was) faster and more agile than Young is. That doesn't mean that he doesn't have the chance to be a great QB -- he does. He could very well fit in the mold of a John Elway or a Steve Young if he worked at it. He's not going to work at it, though. He's (allegedly) a quitter and a crybaby. He hasn't taken to his benching well at all, and has little to no interest in becoming a good teammate and quarterback. From SI's Peter King this morning:

"I was in the Titans' locker room Thursday for 45 minutes and never saw a sign of Young, who lockers next to Kerry Collins (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/players/3115) and a couple of stalls down from third-stringer Chris Simms (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/players/6433). Collins and Simms enjoyed the time in media-access, talking to an out-of-town reporter or two about their team, their old teams, Brett Favre (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/players/1025), the Browns hiring Eric Mangini and anything else that came up. Nice, easy conversation. No Young. That's par for the course, one Titans source told me. Young's not one to pal around or shoot the breeze much with Collins.

On Saturday, a few minutes before the opening kickoff of the playoff game against Baltimore, there was Young, the once and perhaps future quarterback king of Tennessee, sitting alone on the bench. Out on the field, loosening up between the Martina McBride rendition of the anthem and the start of the game, was Collins, throwing to a receiver with Simms throwing the ball back.

Before the opening kickoff, Collins and Simms talked together, with Young still on the bench. And often during the game -- except when the three quarterbacks gathered between series with offensive coordinator Mike Heimerdinger -- Young was away from the action, just watching in his Titans' coat. Maybe there were times when he suggested something to Collins or Heimerdinger, but I never saw it."

Lorini

01-12-2009, 11:03 AM

Matt Bowyer

01-12-2009, 11:06 AM

Tortilla

01-12-2009, 11:09 AM

I believe both Ben Roethlisberger and Dan Marino went to the Superbowl in their first year. On the other hand, the fact that QB's are difficult to scout is exactly why the NFL desperately needs a rookie salary cap. Alex Smith anyone?

I'm not a fan of the rookie salary cap idea. It's just a tool to keep the teams with bad decision makers from making quite so bad decisions.

Teams that want to stop wasting money on busts can simply stop signing unproven rookies to huge contracts, especially at skill positions like QB where a good college career may not translate well to a good pro career.

Rimbo

01-12-2009, 11:15 AM

You also have to add that Young doesn't have Vick's pure athleticism. Vick is (was) faster and more agile than Young is. That doesn't mean that he doesn't have the chance to be a great QB -- he does. He could very well fit in the mold of a John Elway or a Steve Young if he worked at it. He's not going to work at it, though. He's (allegedly) a quitter and a crybaby. He hasn't taken to his benching well at all, and has little to no interest in becoming a good teammate and quarterback. From SI's Peter King this morning:

Well, it's good to see Simms doing well. Damned shame about Vince, though.

The guy has been labelled a hero and saviour for so many years (dating back to HS) that he began to believe it himself. Now he has to remember that he's human, and has to work at it the same as everyone else.

Matt Bowyer

01-12-2009, 11:30 AM

I'm not a fan of the rookie salary cap idea. It's just a tool to keep the teams with bad decision makers from making quite so bad decisions.

Teams that want to stop wasting money on busts can simply stop signing unproven rookies to huge contracts, especially at skill positions like QB where a good college career may not translate well to a good pro career.

You can't just "stop signing rookies to huge contracts." Not without some kind of cap. Right now the agents use the previous year's contract as a baseline, and the percentage increase of the cap each year. I don't think it's going to come down without something actually implemented. No agent is going to sign his guy for less than last year's guy got in the same spot.

Let's say a QB goes third this year. If his agent got him less money than Matt Ryan got from Atlanta last year, the agent should be fired. That's doing a terrible job.

Killzig

01-12-2009, 11:31 AM

Teams that want to stop wasting money on busts can simply stop signing unproven rookies to huge contracts, especially at skill positions like QB where a good college career may not translate well to a good pro career.
Robert 'Don't-call-me-Bobby' Gallery hasn't lived up to his draft spot/contract either. The contract slotting has gotten out of hand and the negative cap implications have basically out-paced any benefit gained by drafting early.

Rimbo

01-12-2009, 11:57 AM

Robert 'Don't-call-me-Bobby' Gallery hasn't lived up to his draft spot/contract either. The contract slotting has gotten out of hand and the negative cap implications have basically out-paced any benefit gained by drafting early.

No kidding. I once suggested as much, but BaconTastesGood slammed me for it. But to me, you're better off grabbing a bunch of unheralded QB recruits and paying them a little to see who develops than you are grabbing the big-name guy who won the MNC/Heisman/Combine tryout, at least as far as QB goes.

Lorini

01-12-2009, 11:59 AM

The rookie salary cap has worked great (as far as I can see) for the NBA. It doesn't stop good players from getting paid what they are due, it's just delayed. It's a shame when (like last year) some Offensive Line rookie gets paid more than the rest of the entire OL put together, and he's never played a down. The other thing is that it will get them playing faster. It was months into the season before JaMarcus Russell of the Raiders was playing because it took that long to negotiate the contract. With a rookie salary cap, they would have given him the max possible and he could have been in training camp and contributing during 2007.

Why would any team want to waste time with unproven rookies when there are better possibilities out there? Yes, Tom Brady makes a lovely story, but he's definitely the exception, not the rule.

Mark Asher

01-12-2009, 11:59 AM

You can blame the NFL for not wanting to guarantee contracts. Players have to get their money up front via a bonus. No one forces the GMs to hand out those big rookie contracts. It's not like it's a free market system either -- rookies don't get to shop themselves around.

I've often wondered if a team wouldn't be better off trading away it's top couple of picks for lots of low draft choices and using the money they save on rookie contracts to sign veteran free agents who have proven themselves? I know you need some influx of rookies, but those number one draft choices are so expensive and so many become mediocre players.

Rimbo

01-12-2009, 12:01 PM

Tortilla

01-12-2009, 12:09 PM

Back to the playoffs this year...

You know, I think the reason the away teams keep winning (and being favored) is because their low placement in the playoffs is due more to being in tough divisions (e.g., the NFC East). This year, more than any I can remember, the good divisions are REALLY good, and the bad ones are REALLY bad.

The problem with that argument is that one of the bad teams from the REALLY bad divisions came out and blew up two good teams from a REALLY good division in the NFC. The Cardinals hosting the NFC championship game really shoots holes in all kinds of popular theories.

Robert Sharp

01-12-2009, 12:18 PM

Well, it's good to see Simms doing well. Damned shame about Vince, though.

The guy has been labelled a hero and saviour for so many years (dating back to HS) that he began to believe it himself. Now he has to remember that he's human, and has to work at it the same as everyone else.

This is the key. I agree that Vince isn't quite as athletic as Vick, but he's still very fast (deceptively so). The problem is that he expected to be a great QB too quickly. He wanted to prove all the critics wrong and show that he could drop back and throw as well as anyone. But he can't, at least not yet. And the Jags game (week one of this season) seemed to really devastate his ego. It's a bit scary. I saw flashes from Young that indicated he could be a great QB, a lot like McNabb actually. A guy who is a threat to run but can throw well enough that you can't just focus on stopping the run. But Young is trying to be something he's not. Last season he didn't take advantage of his natural athleticism and it really hurt the offense.

I think with Chris Johnson, Young would have more success. Lendale didn't scare defenses, so they were able to stop him and Vince. With Johnson and Young out there, the Titans could have a very tricky offense, giving DCs fits with misdirection plays. They might even be athletic enough as a tandem to run the option in the NFL, which would be very strange to see.

But right now, it's hard to say where Vince's head is. If he has the will and realizes that it will take a lot of work and a bit of time, I think he'll be the future for the Titans. If he gives up, he's already done. If I were the GM, I'd try to keep Collins and Simms and let those two battle Vince for the starting job. See who wins it in minicamps and TC. I don't think the organization has given up on Vince, but everything is very hush hush on that subject. Fisher says Vince is the future every time it is brought up. So does Bud Adams (the owner). Vince isn't talking to the media. I don't know what to believe.

Personally, I think the biggest need is a real receiving threat. The Titans are weak there, especially since none of the young guys (except Gage, who was gotten as a FA) has really stepped up and taken the job.

I'd love to have Cassel too, Wallapuctus, but I don't know why the Titans would have to offer draft picks for him. He's a FA after the season, right?

Rimbo

01-12-2009, 12:19 PM

The problem with that argument is that one of the bad teams from the REALLY bad divisions came out and blew up two good teams from a REALLY good division in the NFC. The Cardinals hosting the NFC championship game really shoots holes in all kinds of popular theories.

Wow, no kidding. And that the AFC East doesn't have a single player in the AFC CG is just as surprising as the Cardinals representing the NFC.

Although the "Now you know how the Browns and Bengals feel" theory... that one seems to be about right. :)

Matt Bowyer

01-12-2009, 12:39 PM

I've often wondered if a team wouldn't be better off trading away it's top couple of picks for lots of low draft choices and using the money they save on rookie contracts to sign veteran free agents who have proven themselves? I know you need some influx of rookies, but those number one draft choices are so expensive and so many become mediocre players.

My memory could be failing me here, but I think there was a lot of talk of San Francisco wanting to trade down out of the number one slot when they drafted Alex Smith, but no one would take them on it. Trades take two sides, and there are coaches/owners who don't want those big bonuses.

For a number of years, the Redskins operated off part of the model you put there -- trading away draft picks for proven veteran talent. I don't think their failure means the idea is completely flawed, but their approach certainly was. For every Lavernues Coles and Marcus Washington they got, they got a lot more of Adam Archuleta, Brandon Lloyd, Mark Brunell (who was terrible two years and very good for a year in between those, for all the sense that makes), and Deion Sanders. Washington's top ten drafting record lately has actually been very good, with both the late Sean Taylor and LaRon Landry coming in the early picks of the draft. The problem was they didn't do the other half of your idea, stocking up on late-round picks. They traded those, too.

If by "number one" picks you mean first-rounders, I don't think too many of them are busts. Grabbing a recent year at random, 2004, gives a few busts (Robert Gallery, Reggie Williams, Kenechi Udeze, Ahmad Carroll, Rashaun Woods, J.P. Losman) and also a lot of stars (Eli Manning, Larry Fitzgerald, Philip Rivers, Sean Taylor, Ben Roethlisberger, Vince Wilfork, Steven Jackson, Tommie Harris) and some good players too like Will Smith, Roy Williams (WR) and Lee Evans.

And yeah, small sample size -- had I grabbed the 2005 draft, my numbers would have been a LOT worse. Yeesh, what a terrible year. Alex Smith, Braylon Edwards, Cedric Benson, Pacman Jones, Cadillac Williams, Troy Williamson, Mike Williams, Erasmus James... not all busts, and not all their fault (Cadillac's injuries), but man.

If you mean number one overall, then it's a lot more of a crapshoot.

I haven't really come to any conclusion here -- I was going to argue in favor of the draft not being that big a gamble, but then I look at 2005 and I wonder why the hell I was going to make THAT point. I'm so glad I'm not a personnel guy.

Wallapuctus

01-12-2009, 12:43 PM

I'd love to have Cassel too, Wallapuctus, but I don't know why the Titans would have to offer draft picks for him. He's a FA after the season, right?

Word around here is the Patriots plan on franchising him, in part because they don't know Brady's status and because they figure they can get *something* for him.

Even if all they score is a 5th round pick that's a pick they wouldn't have if they let him go to FA.

Robert Sharp

01-12-2009, 01:54 PM

The rookie salary cap has worked great (as far as I can see) for the NBA. It doesn't stop good players from getting paid what they are due, it's just delayed.

Perhaps. But there are two issues (from a player's perspective, at least). First, the average NFL career is shorter, even (or especially) amongst good players and particularly at physical positions like RB. Also, for every good player in the NBA, you have a lot of players in the second or more rounds that never really get a chance to play in the league. That rookie contract is all they ever see.

I'm all for a rookie cap, btw. I'm just noting that it's not open and shut.

Lorini

01-12-2009, 02:35 PM

Then make the time period of the lesser salary shorter, just a year even. But at least make the player have to either prove himself or at least prove he has potential in the NFL before the teams have to commit large sums of money to him.

The NBA now has the D-League which they are basically using as farm operation as far as I understand it. So they (the NBA) are still evaluating talent even after players have left the league because they couldn't get signed anywhere.

BennyProfane

01-12-2009, 02:42 PM

No kidding. I once suggested as much, but BaconTastesGood slammed me for it. But to me, you're better off grabbing a bunch of unheralded QB recruits and paying them a little to see who develops than you are grabbing the big-name guy who won the MNC/Heisman/Combine tryout, at least as far as QB goes.

One only has to look at the performances/records of the various Heisman QB winners over the past 20 years or so, to see that this is true. As a general rule, the Heisman has been a terrible predictor of NFL quality, almost a negative predictor.

And yes, I realize its not supposed to be that. But people use it that way anyway.

Rimbo

01-12-2009, 03:36 PM

Interesting post on Rivals.com by someone who says he has a source close to Vince:

VY has surrounded himself with imbeciles (some are family) and, unfortunately, these folks are preaching a negative outlook in his ear and head constantly. These folks are constantly telling VY how he's getting screwed, he's being treated unfairly, etc.

Poster then goes on to add, "IMO, VY should have cut the damn cord and left all of this baggage in Houston/Austin. He's acting like a 12 year old because he's treated like one every second that he's not at the Titans facility. The hangers on are derailing their own gravy train and don't even know it."

This is totally believable to me.

Hanacker

01-12-2009, 08:57 PM