Laid off...

[Anonymous]

I've come to the conclusion that it sucks.

So now after two years of being on the other side of the gaming fence (that is, working at a developer of one of the most infamous massively multiplayer games in history) was kinda looking at getting back into the freelance writing/editing market, though it's probably a lot tougher these days. Maybe something else, I dunno.

Actively looking for work in this field sucks too.

--- Alan

[Murph]

Condolences. Seriously.

My wife works for American Airlines, and while her department is more secure than most (and she won't be affected in the round of layoffs that AA just announced), she still lives in constant fear of being laid off when times are bad.

I work for Sabre -- the Computer Reservation System that power Travelocity, and about 3/5 of the travel agents, etc. worldwide -- and we're starting to sweat around here, too. Nothing's been announced, but we worry.

It seems like every company is -- or is thinking about -- laying people off these days. Sorry you got hit, man. :(

[Mark Asher]

Yeah, the freelance market's a bit jammed. I'd consider it as a viable source of extra income but a poor source for a primary one -- unless you can branch out and do non-gaming stuff and are aggressive about pursuing work. Maybe you can make a go of it then, though it will likely take a while to build up a solid client list.

Everyone wants to be a writer, though, so that's what your competing against for work.

And yes, it all sucks.

[chet]

First, I will get shit on for saying so let me first say - at a personal level I feel bad for anyone laid off or having to look for work in this economy.

But to be honest? A company going in the crapper - couldn't have happened to a better company. I am happy to see people voted with their pocketbook. That people aren't so blind happy loving of crap shoveled out under the guise of a complete game that they told you, in no uncertain terms to go to hell. I hope everyone involved with that piece of shit gets punched in the arm everytime they go into eb. Every single aspect of that game was crap and the release of that game was the biggest joke I have ever seen in this industry. DNF can get released next century, and it will be less of a joke.

Too many times companies have screwed the buyer, glad to see that karma finally came back to bite. That it wasn't another activision or ea game that could be swept under the rug of a few other hits.

I am only sorry the entire company is not bankrupt. Even my arch rival Roberta Williams finished her pieces of crap, you guys took a half finished turd and tried to ram it down the consumers throat. You will truly not get what you deserve until everyone involved in the project is gone, and anyone who had anything directly to do with the release, gone from the industry.

And to anyone who cries for a small developer closing shop. Do you cry for the small scam artist who gets caught stealing from the elderly? This entire company was a travesty from the start and to its hopeful near end. I give John Romero credit for however misguided, for trying. I give a big fuck you to anyone involved in WW2 Online.

Chet

[Murph]

Don't hold back, there, Chet...Tell us how you really feel. :)

A lot of people loved WW2OL, so they must have done something right.

[Anonymous]

Gee Chet, thanks for your comments.

--- Alan

[Murph]

Yeah, Alan, isn't it nice to know you can always come here for support?

[chet]

You worked on a game that might as well shipped your doodie in the box, rather than the CD - and I should feel bad that company has financial troubles? Do you feel bad for the $48.14 you stole from me? From other gamers? Should I read the back of the box to you and then we compare it to what was actually in the box?

As I said, on a personal level I feel bad for anyone who has to look for work now, but as a corporate entity, I should shed a tear? Give me a break. Your company knew what it was doing. It did what it did. Spare me the publisher wah wah wah wah crap. That doesn't give me back my $48.14. And as far as I am concerned, that was no prizy team that came up with that awful interface.

I do have to thank you guys for the "reader choice award edition". That breaks past any level of pathetic a game company has ever sunk to. Maybe you should have called it the - "Kinda closer to what was originally advertised to be in the original game edition" with a subtitle, still not there.

I cannot think of one time that I was even slightly happy to hear a game company was having financial troubles. Not even ion storm. I am happy about this. Game companies really need to learn a lesson, and if some people get hurt during the learning process, sorry, but thats the way it goes.


Chet

And murph, yes some people loved WW2OL, I wouldn't call it lots, but some. And those people make little baby Jesus cry.

[Anonymous]

Chet wrote:

"That doesn't give me back my $48.14."

Gimme a fucking break, crybaby.

You voluntarily spent $48 on a game you didn't like. This guy lost his entire means of financial support due to forces beyond his control. Get some perspective, get some empathy, and grow up.

[Steve Canyon]

Dig it. Just because you have a valid point doesn't mean you should act like a crumb.

[Steve Canyon]

Uh, that was me. I am using a different name since my real one was eaten by the board.

Heh, I am tempted to believe that all my troubles with the board are happening because I am criticizing Chet. Oh, wait. I lost my name before I criticized. No matter. It is still Chet's fault.

Tim Elhajj

[Anonymous]

I didn't take your money. I happened to work at a company in which one of the things it did was happen to produce WWII Online. Other than that, you have no idea what I did.

And yes, if you felt ripped off, you probably shoulda returned it to the store, or the publisher, Strategy First, after you bought it.

--- Alan

[Alan Au]

Not quite on topic, but it's my firm belief that a poorly run company cannot produce a good game. Granted, a poor game is not automatically the sign of a poorly run company, but it should come as no surprise.

For example, there was no way that Daikatana was going to be a good game, there was little chance of Pool of Radiance 2 being a good game, and I predict that Duke Nukem Forever will not be a good game.

Thoughts?

- Alan

[GregB]

Welllll...

Deus Ex DID comes from Ion Storm (sorta). And I really liked Anachronox despite the fact that it was clearly unfinished.

And as much as PoR2 sucked, Stormfront has done some pretty solid stuff in the past. And their Lord of the Rings game for PS2 looks like a stunner.

[Alan Au]

The Ion Storm Austin division (which produced Deus Ex) is actually very well run, as opposed to the Dallas division.

As for Stormfront, they had a lot of turnover on the PoR2 project, in addition to having to change the design halfway through the development cycle. I don't know if there were contractual reasons for the redesign, but that just smacks of poor procedure. I hate to be hard on Stormfront, but Don Daglow is one guy who really ought to know better. Unfortunately, the gamers are the ones who suffered for it.

- Alan

[Mark Asher]

POR2 sold fairly well. If they had done a good job with it, I think it would have sold really well. I know I'd enjoy a good turn-based D&D RPG.

[Anonymous]

Is 3drealms a poorly run company? Sure they've had their fill of delayed or cancelled products (Max Payne and Prey respectively) but I dunno if that's a sign DNF will be bad. Still kinda looking forward to it.

I think generally however you are correct; companies that are poorly run or managed will generally have an adverse effect on the products it produces, especially game developers.

--- Alan

[Sean Tudor]

I've come to the conclusion that it sucks.

So now after two years of being on the other side of the gaming fence (that is, working at a developer of one of the most infamous massively multiplayer games in history) was kinda looking at getting back into the freelance writing/editing market, though it's probably a lot tougher these days. Maybe something else, I dunno.

Actively looking for work in this field sucks too.

--- Alan

So Strategy First has started their next round of layoffs ? Unfortunately I am not surprised.

Who is actually the head guy at Strategy First ? What sort of person is he/she ?

[chet]

My point was not on liking or not liking the game. My point was the cd contained inside the box had nothing to do with the product advertised on the box - besides the name. I purchased the game from a store that does not allow the returning of a game.

While you can be a fan boy and wildly keep throwing money at companies that release such crap, I am personally glad to see the company suffer. I can understand bad games, I can understand games that don't work on some systems, but I cannot understand releasing a game that doesn't come close to what is even advertised on the box. They might as well have put a sticker on the box that said "this box contains a million dollars".

The you, was meant as the corporate entity. But since you said it, while it is fun to never take any responsibility for anything bad, I find it a weak excuse. If someone was part of a gang that robbed my house, I wouldn't care if the individual drove the getaway car or is the guy who grabbed my TV. And the scale of cornered rats deception was much larger than that of house robbery. I think the company was only slightly forgiven because people wanted to like the game so bad, they wanted the game that was suppoed to be there.

It is fun to pass the blame, but when it comes down to it, the only person who cannot avoid the punishment is the person who was misled and purchased the game. The only hope for the enduser is that companies that practice such deceptive practices either learn or are driven from the industry as the game buying public will never learn. Everyone always hopes that the game they are getting excited about while looking at it in the store is that good when they bring it home. Companies that prey on that without delivering should suffer.

In the music industry i can read threads of people hoping so and so never makes another album, that brittney spears stops singing etc - all I am saying is I wish the same for a company that just didn't produce a bad game, but was deceptive in their marketing of the game. Again, I am not even getting into if the game was poorly designed or not, I am just saying it was not near what was promised by the box.

Enough on that.

On bad companies and good games, it seems hard to do. Hard for many reasons but a main one seems to be keeping a good team together. The industry is competitive enough that the talented designers,programmers and artists can find work elsewhere and don't suffer poorly run companies well unless they have a piece of the action. Look at the turnover at ION and 3Drealms. I think the DNF team has turned over 2 or 3 times now. How can any vision or cohesive design be brought to the game when you only have the producer the same between the revolving door teams?

Chet

[wumpus]

My point was not on liking or not liking the game. My point was the cd contained inside the box had nothing to do with the product advertised on the box - besides the name. I purchased the game from a store that does not allow the returning of a game.
I'm not defending the release of a broken game, but why didn't you wait for a demo or some reviews? Was someone holding an M1 carbine to your head and forcing you to buy the game on the day of release?

I expect games to suck until I've heard otherwise. Particularly games this ambitious from an unknown developer. And online only no less! Your little "I'm just an average joe who plopped down my cash and expected a solid gaming experience out of the box" shtick isn't exactly believable, Chet. I don't know, maybe you are that stupid. Plead your case.

[Derek Smart [3000AD]]

Aw c'mon Chet, clam up already!!! We get your point, m'kay?!?

Sorry to hear about your job loss Alan. Hang in there...it can't get any worse.

[Anonymous]

You know what, Chet? Usually your "tell it like it is asshole" mode is kind of endearing.

But I have to wonder if you've ever had a "grown-up job." If so, ever work for a company that has done things you didn't agree with? Made bad decisions? Were you in a position where you could just say "screw it" and quit? Probably not, with rent to pay and a family to feed. And who knows, maybe you'd want to stick around and try to help keep the company from doing something else stupid in the future.

If Alan had been the one to say "ah, ship it, we need the cash," then your attitude would be warranted. But he's one employee of a larger company, and just because that company has done some boneheaded stuff (more than once) doesn't mean the man deserves to be shit on when he's looking for a little sympathy. Strategy First obviously has some execs who deserve to be reamed with hot pokers after the WW2OL and Strike Fighters BS, but that doesn't justify your harping here.

And as for WW2OL, if you're too much of a dumbass to read the online reaction threads or wait for a review before shelling out your $48.83, then how is that Alan's fault?

[Mark Asher]

"I'm not defending the release of a broken game, but why didn't you wait for a demo or some reviews? Was someone holding an M1 carbine to your head and forcing you to buy the game on the day of release?"

You're arguing that if Chet wasn't forced to purchase the game, he has no room to complain? That's some crazy obfuscating.

[Mark Asher]

I find myself agreeing with Chet. The marketplace should punish companies that put out shoddy product and reward those that put out quality product. I wish it happened more often.

I don't think his comments were aimed at Alan personally, at least initially, and Chet took pains to make that distinction.

[Murph]

I have mixed feelings, really. Did the game ship in the condition that it was promised? Not at all. But, from what I heard, they were dependable about issing patches, and with each patch bugs were fixed a new features were implemented. Does that excuse their shoddy release? Not at all. But a lot of companies have shipped stuff in almost as bad condition, and not bothered to fix it, or at least not in as timely a fasion.

My strongest criticism of Chet's comments would be that he chose to make them in this thread, where Alan was looking for sympathy, rather than starting his own little "rant" thread. At least, that's what I would have done.

And while he did make the point "at a personal level I feel bad for anyone laid off or having to look for work in this economy," he focused very little on Alan's personal situation.

So, while I don't disagree with anything he said, and don't think he was necessarily out of line on any level, I think he could have been a little more tactful. But, Chet's not known for that. :)

[Anonymous]

Thanks for your comments, even you Chet :) ... I appreciate them. Don't worry I'll bounce back some way...

As long as there's still QT3! :)

--- Alan

[hido]

I don't necesarily agree with the way Chet addressed this topic, but I do agree with his point. I have been a fan of 3DO's High Heat series since day one. This year's version was basically unplayable (I won't go into detail, just read any review). But what pissed me off the most was the fact that 3DO did not release ANY patch to fix the myriad of problems within the game. They basically gave a big "FUCK YOU" to all of us that bought the game. And there seems to be nothing I can do about it except not purchase anything else from that company.

Does anyone have the CEO's e-mail?!?

[Anonymous]

I was wondering how long it would take the Cover-Chet's-Ass-Brigade to show up.

[Murph]

Just to point out: I'm not part of the brigade. I've never defended Chet before.

[Desslock]

> was wondering how long it would take the Cover-Chet's-Ass-Brigade to show up.

Well, nothing's as annoying as anonymous pot-shots.

[wumpus]

You're arguing that if Chet wasn't forced to purchase the game, he has no room to complain? That's some crazy obfuscating.
If Chet really gave a damn about his $48, he wouldn't blindly plop it down on a game in a high risk genre by an unknown developer. How long does it take to wait for the reader reviews to come in? Two-three days at most? It's not like he was buying a Blizzard or Id title here with some reasonably guaranteed level of quality.

This is like going to a B movie on opening night, then complaining that it sucks and robbed you of your $7, everyone involved in it should lose their jobs, their dogs should be sodomized, their mothers should be shot, etc etc etc.

I understand the desire for developers to release competent games because it devalues the entire PC gaming market when clearly broken titles are released. Joe Public doesn't know that Cornered Rat or whoever the hell developed it is an unknown developer.. Joe Public doesn't know that online-only games are one of the hardest kinds of games to develop... Joe Public just sees a fancy box on a shelf and assumes it's going to work at least reasonably close to the way it says it will on the box. In that sense, I agree with what he is saying. On the other hand, I have a hard time seeing Chet as this erstwhile champion of the people, nobly defending them from broken games. Chet doesn't care about any of that. It's just another opportunity to trot out his tired old "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more" routine. But this time, he really means it.

I have zero sympathy for Chet's $48. Chet isn't Joe Public. He should absolutely know better-- this title was the junk bond of gaming. Ultra-high risk.

[Anonymous]

"This is like going to a B movie on opening night, then complaining that it sucks and robbed you of your $7, everyone involved in it should lose their jobs, their dogs should be sodomized, their mothers should be shot, etc etc etc."

No, it's more like going to a B movie on opening night, then several months later someone in a social gathering says to casual acquaintances at a party that he was just laid off from an unrelated job at the movie studio that released that movie, and he's worried about his future now that he doesn't have a job in a competitive industry. While other people are normal human beings, and offer the guy sympathy for his plight, there's this one total nerdfreak who starts harranguing the guy about how this guy he's never met is "responsible" for the loss of the money spent on the ticket months ago, and how he's GLAD the guy is out of work, and won't let go of this point, monopolizing the conversation, and coming off as a complete social retard. It's something like that. One of those situations where everyone at the party is embarassed for even being in the same room.

[Met_K]

I'll put on some really sad violin music for Chet... no, wait, I won't.

I think I'll put on something with a 'for whom the bell tolls' attitude going. That's where you're headed, buddy. OMM fell apart, this site has fallen apart (again), and needless to say, some of the other "700" sites you host are falling apart.

Has-been. Never-was? Grow-up and get a real job, you lousy sack of shit. Otherwise, I'll be knocking on your door when your "webmaster/hosting job" (emphasis on job) goes under. Laugh it in your face. Walk away happy.

[deanco]

Hey Alan,

I'm really sorry to hear this. When I was 'working' for Playnet, you were straight up with me the whole way, even cutting me loose from having to write a promised article for you when it became evident that Playnet couldn't (or didn't want to) pay me. I remember stuff like this.

You'll bounce back. Hang in there. Best of luck.

DeanCo--

[Jessica]

Alan,

Sorry to hear about the layoff. Lots of good people on the beach right now...

My recommendation is to contact Mark Mencher or Melanie Cambron at Virtual Search (www.vsearch.com). To my experience, they have the greatest sense of honor in the industry and honestly try to match you up with valid positions, instead of shot-gunning your resume to every possible job listing. They are also discreet and have tons of experience and contacts in the industry.

Good luck!

-Jess

[Derek Smart [3000AD]]

I find myself agreeing with Chet. The marketplace should punish companies that put out shoddy product and reward those that put out quality product. I wish it happened more often.

Naturally, but of course


I don't think his comments were aimed at Alan personally, at least initially, and Chet took pains to make that distinction.

....and therein lies that rub - thats what most of us take exception to. Its not like, Alan, or most of the lower echelon, have much say in release decisions anyway.


Alan,

My recommendation is to contact Mark Mencher
-Jess

Yep, Mark's a great guy - known him over the years. Give him a call, Alan!

[Xaroc]

Alan, sorry to hear about you getting laid off. And Chet whining about WW2OL in this thread is just stupid. Christ companies I have worked for have done tons of stupid things but I would still expect people to be understanding if I got let go especially since I had no control over those things. It is classless for you to bring it up in this thread.

Alan drop me a line from your current email when you get a chance.

-- Xaroc

[Mark Asher]

This thread's funny. People are decrying what they consider to be a personal attack...by making personal attacks! Everyone loses!

[Alan Dunkin]

Ok officially registered now :)

I think some people absorbed the whole "I hope everyone that works for the company never works in this industry again" vein of rhetoric and decided that perhaps Chet went a little too far.

Anyway I dunno what to say, but to say thanks to everyone for their comments and suggestions, I really appreciate their support and input.

--- Alan

[Anonymous]

Well, nothing's as annoying as anonymous pot-shots.
Yeah, because those from a "Met_K," "Xaroc," or a "deanco", etc., have so much more resonance and credibility because they're man enough to sign their Internet handle to their post. They are truly brave men. Or women. Or kids.

What's annoying to me is dismissing anonymous posts solely because they're posted anonymously, particularly if they make a valid point.

(Not that this is a particularly good example, but anyway, I've seen other cases where people make a valid point anonymously, and rather than address them, people will merely dismiss them outright and comment on their anonymity, thereby ducking the issue. Which bugs me.)

Blah. "Ralph Nelson" may have been lurking on the forum for years and may have posted hundreds of messages under various handles. Or it may be Tom Chick posting from an Internet cafe in Prague, where he's apparently wearing a beret and smoking cigarettes while hanging out with stringy haired and tattooed Eurotrash.

[Anonymous]

I'll tell Tom you said 'hi',Steve.

[Bub, Andrew]

... where he's apparently wearing a beret and smoking cigarettes while hanging out with stringy haired and tattooed Eurotrash.

Isn't it more likely he's learning, very quickly, how to swim?

[Met_K]

Well, nothing's as annoying as anonymous pot-shots.
Yeah, because those from a "Met_K," "Xaroc," or a "deanco", etc., have so much more resonance and credibility because they're man enough to sign their Internet handle to their post. They are truly brave men. Or women. Or kids.

What's annoying to me is dismissing anonymous posts solely because they're posted anonymously, particularly if they make a valid point.

(Not that this is a particularly good example, but anyway, I've seen other cases where people make a valid point anonymously, and rather than address them, people will merely dismiss them outright and comment on their anonymity, thereby ducking the issue. Which bugs me.)

Blah. "Ralph Nelson" may have been lurking on the forum for years and may have posted hundreds of messages under various handles. Or it may be Tom Chick posting from an Internet cafe in Prague, where he's apparently wearing a beret and smoking cigarettes while hanging out with stringy haired and tattooed Eurotrash.

I don't give a rats ass if you say anything to me anonymously. Hell, isn't that what people do when they cut you off on the highway? You don't know 'em. Not much you can do about it, so I don't care.

And for the record, I never said I have more credibility. I'm still, technically, anonymous, since I've never even given my first name here. I'm the same as you, guy.

[Anonymous]

the guy getting criticized here, "chet" happens to always go by his first name only online, and doesn't seem to show his last name anywhere on his website -- at least anywhere readily available. based on that modus operandi, i'm sure he doesn't mind anonymous criticism. after all, he's gone to some effort to withhold his own identity from casual distribution.

[Desslock]

>uyeah, because those from a "Met_K," "Xaroc," or a "deanco", etc., have so much more resonance and credibility because they're man enough to sign their Internet handle to their post.

Exactly, I'm glad you understand. I could care less about knowing anything about the person, other than their posting history and views as expressed in other/previous posts. But anonymous potshots, made by people who don't even have courage to stand by their comments by keeping a consistent handle, is pretty damn cowardly.

Especially when they use that anonymity to post attacks that they they don't have the courage to post under their own name, as you've done so often in the past whenever you wanted to criticize magazines or publications that compete with the one you're associated with.

Stefan

[Bub, Andrew]

I don't know Desslock,
If that was indeed Steve making those posts there's really nothing wrong with him doing it. I can certainly see why he'd avoid doing something like that under his own name (for professional reasons - an attack on Gamespot from Steve Bauman carries more weight than an anonymous one), but that doesn't make his criticisms invalid. Besides, for that very reason there's been a long tradition of people doing just that. Mark Twain made anonymous attacks, so did Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burr. Is your fued here going to end with a duel?

Of course those people didn't have regular posters with admin powers to contend with. I'm pretty sure Legolas and Johan Freeberg, and who knows how many other Trolls, are people who post here all the time under their real names. Plenty of anons attack PCGamer as well. I got slammed recently by you, Mark, Tom and someone named "Guest" who writes just like Geryk. Maybe you should sleuth everybody out equally instead of just the people who attack you and yours.

Actually I'd prefer it if you did that, I hate the whole anonymous factor for the same reasons you profess to.

[Anonymous]

But anonymous potshots, made by people who don't even have courage to stand by their comments by keeping a consistent handle, is pretty damn cowardly.
You're a brave, brave man for sticking with "Desslock" all these years. As brave as the guy that posts as "nvidiot_whore" on Voodoo Extreme, even.


Especially when they use that anonymity to post attacks that they they don't have the courage to post under their own name, as you've done so often in the past whenever you wanted to criticize magazines or publications that compete with the one you're associated with.
Ah, here we go again, Desslock the posting cop. So you convicted me before without offering any actual, what's that legal term, evidence, yeah. So explain how exactly you know I posted all of those anonymous messages you accuse me of? Like the one where I was on a plane, or the ones where I wasn't even in town? And since I'm actually familiar with things like anonymous proxies, if I actually wanted to be anonymous, I know how to do it. And last I checked, I'm pretty comfortable criticizing competitors under my own name.

You know, it's probably ironic for someone who practices a form of "journalism" to admin a board that allows anonymous posting then "out" the anonymous poster when they say something they disagree with or criticizes a publication they're associated with. Are you so vigilant with people that criticize PC Gamer, or is it just CGW and Gamespot that are above any form of criticism?

Here's an easy solution. Turn off anonymous posting or, well, keep who's posting anonymous to yourself. Or out everyone, like Bub asked. Out your cronies when they post anonymously, because they're clearly cowards. Out the guy that posted about problems at Electronic Arts, the guy who said, "I can't post this under my own name for obvious reasons." Coward! Out Sinner. Out Met_K! Out "Stringy haired Eurotrash!" Now! That person is mocking me! Wahhhhhhh!

Am I me? Do you know? Who cares? You'd think this message board was actually, I dunno, important or something.

[Desslock]

>here we go again, Desslock the posting cop. So you convicted me before without offering any actual, what's that legal term, evidence. So explain how exactly you know I posted all of those anonymous messages you accuse me of?

Don't be ridiculous. How ridiculous do you feel knowing that I'm correct in my accusations, when you publicly post these denials? If you think it's cool to do so, or justified because you think it's more professional (rather than less) to do so anonymously - whatever.

>Turn off anonymous posting or, well, keep who's posting anonymous to yourself.

Yeah, it's a real tragedy that you can't get away with making personal attacks anonymously. Here's a thought - accept responsibility for your words and actions instead of denying them.

Stefan

[Matthew Gallant]

Yeah, it's a real tragedy that you can't get away with making personal attacks anonymously. Here's a thought - accept responsibility for your words and actions instead of denying them.

Here's another: sticks and stones, rubber and glue.

[wumpus]

Y'know what would be funny? If there was a Matthew Goofus.

[deanco]

Hold on you guys! Lemme grab a can of beer and some potato chips!


DeanCo--

[Murph]

Wow. This is getting ugly.

I don't have the power -- or maybe it's just the time, or that I don't care that much -- to cross-check IPs or whatever, but...Well, I've seen Steve say some stuff, with his name attached, that, if I were the sort of person to occasionally post stuff anonymously, I would have posted anonymously. He's made plenty of attacks with his own name.

That said, if Desslock's cross-checked IPs, that's pretty damning evidence...And he seems pretty confident. I just don't know who to believe.

The beauty is...I don't care. It doesn't matter. I certainly prefer it when people have the balls to attach their name to every post they make, no matter how hateful. Or, better yet, when they just try to avoid personal attacks altogether, but that'll never happen on a messageboard, will it? But, a valid point is a valid point, anonymous or no.

It just bums me out when I see valid points posted anonymously. Goodness knows that I've said enough dumb things in my time here that, if I made a valid point, I'd want credit for it. :)

[Derek Smart [3000AD]]

I Is your fued here going to end with a duel?


Yes, thats what we need - a good ol' duel!!

brb

/me racing to closet to dig out knickers, kilt and a pair of rusty ol' swords

[Anonymous]

Don't be ridiculous. How ridiculous do you feel knowing that I'm correct in my accusations, when you publicly post these denials? If you think it's cool to do so, or justified because you think it's more professional (rather than less) to do so anonymously - whatever.
I can't possibly feel more ridiculous than you appear getting all high-and-mighty and self-righteous about a post on a freakin' message board.

Show of hands, who thinks this is silly?


Yeah, it's a real tragedy that you can't get away with making personal attacks anonymously. Here's a thought - accept responsibility for your words and actions instead of denying them.
Who did I ever personally attack, anonymously or otherwise? What am I supposed to be denying?

[Sean Tudor]

Someone pass me the lube.

[Anonymous]

Hot on the heels of "Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice," comes "Tom & Mark & Chet & Erik," a touching love story for our times, about two witty websites that imploded from sexual tension turned, through repression, to firey message board hostility sometime in the early 21st century. The love scene of four men, dripping in sticky gravy, inserting joysticks in places where joysticks should not go in the wee hours of Quakecon, would be worth the admittance alone.

[wumpus]

Don't be ridiculous. How ridiculous do you feel knowing that I'm correct in my accusations, when you publicly post these denials? If you think it's cool to do so, or justified because you think it's more professional (rather than less) to do so anonymously - whatever.

Evidence isn't evidence if you're the only person who knows about it. As much respect as I have for Desslock et al, Steve is absolutely right about this. You have to post the relevant log sections for us to see and compare the IP addresses. We have to see the evidence and judge for ourselves for this to be valid "evidence".

Otherwise you end up looking ridiculous, like Chet. "I HAVE ABSOLUTE UNCONTESTABLE PROOF! BUT I'M NOT SHOWING ANYONE! JUST TAKE MY WORD FOR IT!" Whatever helps you sleep at night, man.

[Dirt]

Christ. Don't you people get enough drama in your own lives that you have to bring it to a message board? It's one thing when you're trying to have a intelligent conversation but this seems ridiculous.

[Desslock]

>Evidence isn't evidence if you're the only person who knows about it.

Er, Steve certainly knows about it, which is all that matters as far as I'm concerned. And plenty-o-regulars here have seen or otherwise validated what I've said, including Steve's favourite freelancer.

>Don't you people get enough drama in your own lives that you have to bring it to a message board? It's one thing when you're trying to have a intelligent conversation but this seems ridiculous.

Fair point.

[Met_K]

Christ. Don't you people get enough drama in your own lives that you have to bring it to a message board? It's one thing when you're trying to have a intelligent conversation but this seems ridiculous.

A warped quote from Gord rings to mind...

"I subscribe to the theory of intelligence osmosis. I'm afraid I have to stop visiting this message board before my intelligence starts to lower."

Does that answer your question about this board attempting intelligent conversation?

[Anonymous]

Er, Steve certainly knows about it, which is all that matters as far as I'm concerned. And plenty-o-regulars here have seen or otherwise validated what I've said, including Steve's favourite freelancer.
No Steve doesn't know about it, which is why he's honestly baffled, but you've made sure that everyone here knows about it, whatever it is. Your point has been made. You've decided my reputation, such as it is, deserves a sound trashing for, I don't know, saying Gamespot is boring or something. This is fine since I could care less about such silly little things, but I think it's pretty funny since the way you're handling it says a lot more about you than it does me.

And I'm sure Tom Chick is thrilled to be dragged into this, since you know it could affect our working relationship. That's classy, and the mark of a great friend.

If I was the person taking anonymous potshots at someone/something, you've managed to lower yourself to that level. So if that was my goal, I win! Score one for the troll! Whoo hoo!

[Anonymous]

PEE PEE: "Wheeeeeee! This message board is fun! What does this button do?"

DEXLOCK: "Pee Pee, get out of my secret message board! Yew are so steeeeeeeeewpid!"

PEE PEE: "Ha ha ha, ha ha ha ha ha ha, Dexlock! I am not your sister Pee Pee! Don't you realize I am your arch-nemesis, BauMandark! At last I will destroy your secret message board with my anonymous postings!"

DEXLOCK: "Noooooooooooooooo!!!!"

BAUMANDARK: "Ha ha ha, ha ha ha ha ha!"

DEXLOCK: "No, it is I who am triumphant, stewwpid! I have your secret IP! I will turn it over to your parents, and they weeel spank yewwww!"

BAUMANDARK: "Nooooooooooooo!!!"

DEXLOCK: "I hope he does not realize I am just bluffink! I am too busy leveling up my D&D characters to run de message board IP-alyzer!"

PEE PEE: "Wheeeeeeee! This message board is fun! What does this button do, Dexlock?"

DEXLOCK: "NO!!!! Don't press dat buttonk, Pee Pee!"





booom.

[Desslock]

>If I was the person taking anonymous potshots at someone/something, you've managed to lower yourself to that level

Er, no, I haven't, which is the whole point, because I haven't done the posting anonymously. If you're bitter because I point out your tendency to make anonymous posts criticizing other publications, then you can appropriately glare in my general direction. No more misguided anger against Zork25!

>I think it's pretty funny since the way you're handling it says a lot more about you than it does me

Exactly. It says I'm willing to accept responsibility for my words and actions, and you'd rather hide behind anonymous posts. Which is particularly ironic, since earlier this week you criticized people such as myself, who post under pseudonyms.

>No Steve doesn't know about it, which is why he's honestly baffled

Nice bluff. Simple yes or no question for you then: Have you ever posted criticisms of another publication using a name other than Steve, or Steve Bauman? Don't wait for the translation - are there missiles in Cuba?

[Anonymous]

http://www.planetdexterslab.com/dexter-a-dexdee.gif

[Xaroc]

Well, nothing's as annoying as anonymous pot-shots.
Yeah, because those from a "Met_K," "Xaroc," or a "deanco", etc., have so much more resonance and credibility because they're man enough to sign their Internet handle to their post. They are truly brave men. Or women. Or kids.


I used to sign my name Rob "Xaroc" Funk on the other board I am hardly hiding behind anything. And since you are not registered that post could be mine for all anyone knows.

-- Xaroc

[Joe O'Malley]

Show of hands, who thinks this is silly?


We also covered the whole psuedonym thing in another thread. Desslock is Desslock. He's a registered user on the board, and known to his peers, which form (so far as I can tell) the majority of the population on this board. Steve, on the other hand, and though everyone seems to know who he is, doesn't register, and so avoids having his posts and comments tracked. Is it so hard to register? Wouldn't that go a long way towards stopping this whole disagreement?

Also, I don't buy the whole George Bush (elder) "It doesn't bother me" attitude. You've spent a lot of time and energy on this thread, Steve. Unless you burn your life away on things you don't care about, I'd have to say it bothers you more than a bit.

[Bub, Andrew]

With a name like "Funk" why use a pseudonym like "Xaroc"? Your name is cool! Much cooler than "Bub". All pseudonyms should derive from the person's real name. Not from movies, video games, RPGs or even from Star Blazers. Desslock shall now be known as Kennicki (a Grease reference related to his real world last name of "Janicki"). Asher will be called "Masher" and Chick, well, he'll still be "Chick".

[Tyjenks]

With a name like "Funk" why use a pseudonym like "Xaroc"? Your name is cool! Much cooler than "Bub".

Agreed, your name is not cool in the least, but then you could not use "Hubbub". Maybe that would be just as well, too. :P



All pseudonyms should derive from the person's real name. Not from movies, video games, RPGs or even from Star Blazers. Desslock shall now be known as Kennicki (a Grease reference related to his real world last name of "Janicki"). Asher will be called "Masher" and Chick, well, he'll still be "Chick".

So your saying it was a good idea, now that I am approaching 33 years of age, to go with a combination of my first and last name when registering here rather than what I had been using for several years on boards and in games: Painbringer. My wife still makes fun of my "nerd" aliases. I hate to give it up, it was pretty intimidating when waiting in the lobby for a game of spades at the zone.com.

[Bub, Andrew]

You know what's the most horrible thing about my using Hubbub for a column? It took me 3 years to realize how perfect it would be. I mean, it's so much better than my old Daily Radar column title "Andrew's Views".

[Xaroc]

With a name like "Funk" why use a pseudonym like "Xaroc"? Your name is cool! Much cooler than "Bub".

Heh, growing up that name was a curse, you can just imagine what 5th graders could come up with using Funk as a starting point. :) Obviously that isn't an issue anymore I just prefer Xaroc for online gaming etc. I created the name a long time ago and other than a few oddballs stealing it or possibly coming up with it later than me, it is unique. I use IRC with it, game with it, own the domain, and have it on the license of my car (wife's idea but I like it). Anyway that is the reason I use it.

-- Xaroc

[Jason Becker]

Its just a reaction(and one I agree with) about the extreme cases of technically bad games like WWIIOL.(Anarchy Online is another). There can be bugs, there can be design flaws(I've played more than my fair share) but when you literally can't even run the game for more than a few minutes or at all thats just wrong. There has to be at least some basic line you don't cross, and when a game does like it was shot out of a cannon thats just plan fraud IMO.

This is solely directed at the company's not any indavidual like Alan.

[Met_K]

Its just a reaction(and one I agree with) about the extreme cases of technically bad games like WWIIOL.(Anarchy Online is another). There can be bugs, there can be design flaws(I've played more than my fair share) but when you literally can't even run the game for more than a few minutes or at all thats just wrong. There has to be at least some basic line you don't cross, and when a game does like it was shot out of a cannon thats just plan fraud IMO.

This is solely directed at the company's not any indavidual like Alan.

The point you completely missed (as usual) is the manner at which all this was brought up; the timing; and, of course, the fact that the person saying it has absolutely no remorse about being a complete and utter ass directly to Alan and indirectly to anyone who's ever been laid off.

It's a "Hey, fuck you. Your company was run by a bunch of greedy, cock-sucking whores, so they should all die. Your company is getting what it deserves. I don't care if they did employ God knows how many people, fuck 'em. They knew who they worked for. Bunch of pig-fuckers. Worse than Al Qaeda!"

To quote a good member of this board: etc.

[Anonymous]

And not only did The Chetster say that shit about his bosses, but he said this about Alan himself:

"The you, was meant as the corporate entity. But since you said it, while it is fun to never take any responsibility for anything bad, I find it a weak excuse. If someone was part of a gang that robbed my house, I wouldn't care if the individual drove the getaway car or is the guy who grabbed my TV. And the scale of cornered rats deception was much larger than that of house robbery. I think the company was only slightly forgiven because people wanted to like the game so bad, they wanted the game that was suppoed to be there. "

Nice one, arsemunch. Compare the guy to a criminal for happening to work in the same company. We all respect this hardcore, tell-it-like-it-is attitude. Haven't seen talk this tough since Elmo said no to drugs.

[Jason Becker]

"The point you completely missed (as usual) is the manner at which all this was brought up; the timing;"

I made my point clear I was agreeing with the "I'm pissed off at these games part", but I wasn't directing it at a specific person. My post made that clear. You have made it clear you can't read very well.

[Jack]

Jeez, what a mess this conversation became.

Hey, Alan. Sorry about your situation; let us know if it gets better. I think there's a nugget of altruism in Chet's diatribe: WW2OL was a mess, but I'm sure the decision-makers who rolled that load of stank to the public won't be affected by the layoffs. I'm sure they either got promoted or their golden parachutes have already been packed. Chet has the tact of a hand grenade, but his sentiments are sound. It's too bad folks like Alan have to suffer from the idiocy of his bosses.

[Met_K]

"The point you completely missed (as usual) is the manner at which all this was brought up; the timing;"

I made my point clear I was agreeing with the "I'm pissed off at these games part", but I wasn't directing it at a specific person. My post made that clear. You have made it clear you can't read very well.

No, what you said is that none of your comments were personally aimed at Alan. You still did exactly what Chet did, minus the ass-hole-ishness.

Not only that, you've perhaps made yourself out to be the biggest fucking dumbass I've ever seen. Not only are you the most uneducated bastard I've ever met about Vietnam, but you say that a game company releasing a bad game is akin to fraud?! Jesus fucking Christ, I'm calling up the real Jason Becker right now so he can come swatch you in the fucking eye with his tremolo bar!

[Anonymous]

Er, no, I haven't, which is the whole point, because I haven't done the posting anonymously."
Except as Desslock, which is technically psuedonynmous. And it might as well be anonymous to anyone not familiar with who "Desslock" is.

And how do we know you've never posted anonymously? It's message board McCarthyism! Desslock, the posting cop, creates his own witch hunt! Communists, all of you! Proof be damned, if you can't deny it, you must be one! Have you no decency, sir?


If you're bitter because I point out your tendency to make anonymous posts criticizing other publications, then you can appropriately glare in my general direction. No more misguided anger against Zork25!
Hah, bitter, that's funny. I'm hardly bitter, though I do find your little character assassination a wee-bit pathetic. I particularly like it when you do one of these things and say something like, "I really respect your publication even while I'm doing everything I can to publicly demean you and the work you do."


Exactly. It says I'm willing to accept responsibility for my words and actions, and you'd rather hide behind anonymous posts.
Oh yes, and what a great burden to bear! Having to accept responsibility for saying how much you like a certain comic book. Wow! You're really sticking your neck out there! Go, girl, go!

Oh wait, we don't actually know if you've ever posted anonymously, do we? We don't have access to every access log or admin privileges on the board as you, and the other admins, are the only people who can abuse that power. And now, since going public with someone like this is considered an abuse of power, your reputation is highly suspect. Do you share e-mails and passwords too? Do you research every anonymous post to see who's making fun of Bub? How can we trust you, or Mark, or Tom, since you're willing to divulge an anonymous poster's identity, while being part of a message board that allows anonymous posting? We can't. You've officially decided to throw trust out the window for your own little personal crusade. Good job!


Which is particularly ironic, since earlier this week you criticized people such as myself, who post under pseudonyms.
I think it was more of an issue with writing articles than posting messages, but I do think it's funny that people like to go by their fantasy names. But I'm a hypocrite, I go by "steve" and my real name is "Steven."


Nice bluff. Simple yes or no question for you then: Have you ever posted criticisms of another publication using a name other than Steve, or Steve Bauman?
Who's bluffing? Burden of proof is on the accuser, big boy. What did I say, when did I say it, and what's your proof I said it?

If you can at least come up with the first two, I might even be able to remember if I actually did say something and, I dunno, forget to type my name in the "username" field or something.

[Anonymous]

You've spent a lot of time and energy on this thread, Steve. Unless you burn your life away on things you don't care about, I'd have to say it bothers you more than a bit.
I spend like 18 hours a day on things I don't care about, like Primal Hunt for Aliens versus Predator 2. Well, I guess I might care about it if it were actually good.

[Murph]

If you can at least come up with the first two, I might even be able to remember if I actually did say something and, I dunno, forget to type my name in the "username" field or something.

Steve, I can't help but wonder -- especially in light of all this -- why you don't register an account. I mean, it's sad that it's an issue at all, but I never have to type in my username, because the board "remembers" me.

Just curious. I'm not choosing who to believe on this issue, because it totally doesn't matter, really.

[Desslock]

> It's message board McCarthyism! Desslock, the posting cop, creates his own witch hunt! Communists.

Jingo jingo jango fett. As you've avoided the question once again in favour of posting gibberish about communism, and since we both know the answer, I'll repost it to highlight your aversion: did you ever criticize another publication while posting under a name other than Steve, Steven, or Steve Bauman or Steven Bauman?

Yes or no? Simple as that.

?I'm hardly bitter, though I do find your little character assassination a wee-bit pathetic. I particularly like it when you do one of these things and say something like, "I really respect your publication even while I'm doing everything I can to publicly demean you and the work you do."

You're both plenty bitter, and you know I'm correct, which has you in a bit of a quandry. You don't know whether you're better off ignoring me, or admitting that you've repeatedly posted ill of GameSpot, Adrenaline Vault, etc. uh, hint-hint.

I'm giving you plenty of opportunity to admit and/or defend your conduct. If you think it's totally cool to post under a different name and criticize other publications -- cool -- now's your chance to defend it (even though at least one of the publications you criticized fired a full-time editor for doing exactly what you've done in the past), because that publication viewed such conduct to be intolerably unprofessional.

Since you particularly like it, I'll repost it: I do think you're as good a reviewer of computer games as anyone here, and I think CGM is probably the print magazine with the most consistent quality. That said, I still think it's inappropriate for an editor of one publication to assume a pseudonym for the purposes of criticizing another.

>Do you research every anonymous post

Nope, but since I happened to notice that you like to anonymously post criticisms of other magazines I shouldn't point out your misconduct? So your "argument" essentially comes down to "other people anonymously post too", so it's cool for you to anonymously criticize other publications?

Again, yes or no?

>I do think it's funny that people like to go by their fantasy names. But I'm a hypocrite, I go by "steve" and my real name is "Steven."

And the other names you use to post anonymous criticisms of other publications (the same publications which have fired full-time editors for similar conduct). But you're really hard done by, because you occasionally get called on it, and asked to be responsible for your own acts and words.

Again, why don't you just admit what you've done and defend it (since you clearly seem to think you've done nothing wrong, because others do similarly, etc.) on that basis. Or just -- for the fourth time, answer this simple question: have you ever criticized another publication while posting under a name other than Steve, Bauman, or other understandable derivatives.

Yes or no?

[Bub, Andrew]

So, lets for the sake of argument say that Steve did "post ill of Gamespot and the Adrenaline Vault" while using a pseudonym. Why did you research and publically reveal his name Desslock? Were you trying to get Steve fired from CGM? Was that your motive? I mean, you're aware that's the "traditional" consequence. You mentioned it twice, above. So when you revealed it, you were expecting... what?

I don't get it. You're just a freelancer. What do you care what anyone says about the places you work for? Good or ill? I could understand if he was posting slander about those pubs or attacking you personally, but really, an editor criticising the competition is sticky if he does it as himself. It's much less sticky if he does it anonymously. I'm sure this fired editor you mention was fired because he posted attacks as himself. Right? He was fired because he attacked his rivals as a representative of his company. I'm sure the pub wouldn't have fired him if he'd done so anonymously. Er... unless someone ferretted him out using admin powers and revealed him to the world.

In that way isn't it more professional for Steve to write "Gamespot sucks" anonymously rather than as a CGM EIC? Assuming Steve even did this, of course.

Why don't we just end this thing here.

[Murph]

I second that, word for word.

[JFeil]

So, lets for the sake of argument say that Steve did "post ill of Gamespot and the Adrenaline Vault" while using a pseudonym. Why did you research and publically reveal his name Desslock? Were you trying to get Steve fired from CGM? Was that your motive? I mean, you're aware that's the "traditional" consequence. You mentioned it twice, above. So when you revealed it, you were expecting... what?

I don't get it. You're just a freelancer. What do you care what anyone says about the places you work for? Good or ill? I could understand if he was posting slander about those pubs or attacking you personally, but really, an editor criticising the competition is sticky if he does it as himself. It's much less sticky if he does it anonymously. I'm sure this fired editor you mention was fired because he posted attacks as himself. Right? He was fired because he attacked his rivals as a representative of his company. I'm sure the pub wouldn't have fired him if he'd done so anonymously. Er... unless someone ferretted him out using admin powers and revealed him to the world.

In that way isn't it more professional for Steve to write "Gamespot sucks" anonymously rather than as a CGM EIC? Assuming Steve even did this, of course.

Why don't we just end this thing here.

I count 9 questions there, and a plea to end the arguement. What do you want to happen? Questions answered or thread retired?

I think it's obvious why Desslock is pursuing this: he's a lawyer. It's instinctive for him to sense weakness and expose fault when attacked. To ask for burdon of proof is the ultimate way to manipulate a lawyer into baring his fangs.

Alan, sorry to hear about the job. I don't know much about your job history, but, if you have at least three games under your belt, you shouldn't have too much difficulty finding a new company. I think Mary-Margaret is a good recruiter, as well, if you haven't tried her. I met her at the last GDC and she seemed really professional.

http://www.mary-margaret.com/

As for WW2 Online, at least people have heard of the game. If you had been fired after working on Fighting Legends, you might have had a tougher time of it. :-)

Finally: good thread. Over 1400 views. Biggest post in this forum. More people now know Alan needs a job than if he posted this in any other place. Who knows, maybe it will outgrow the XBox-Live thread! Alan should thank Chet, Steve and Desslock for the extended life they brought to this plea for sympathy and employment.



John

[DennyA]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Desslock isn't a moderator here, is he? I thought it was just Mark and Tom? So some of the discussion surrounding that isn't applicable anyway.

And I've known Steve for a while, and he's never struck me as the type to hide behind a pseudonym when criticising. He's very much a "tell it like it is" kind of guy, not the kind of guy who worries he might piss someone off. :-)

I always took those "You think so, Steve?" responses to criticisms on the old board as jokes, not real accusations. I guess they took on a life of their own.

[Met_K]

So, lets for the sake of argument say that Steve did "post ill of Gamespot and the Adrenaline Vault" while using a pseudonym. Why did you research and publically reveal his name Desslock? Were you trying to get Steve fired from CGM? Was that your motive? I mean, you're aware that's the "traditional" consequence. You mentioned it twice, above. So when you revealed it, you were expecting... what?

I don't get it. You're just a freelancer. What do you care what anyone says about the places you work for? Good or ill? I could understand if he was posting slander about those pubs or attacking you personally, but really, an editor criticising the competition is sticky if he does it as himself. It's much less sticky if he does it anonymously. I'm sure this fired editor you mention was fired because he posted attacks as himself. Right? He was fired because he attacked his rivals as a representative of his company. I'm sure the pub wouldn't have fired him if he'd done so anonymously. Er... unless someone ferretted him out using admin powers and revealed him to the world.

In that way isn't it more professional for Steve to write "Gamespot sucks" anonymously rather than as a CGM EIC? Assuming Steve even did this, of course.

Why don't we just end this thing here.

I count 9 questions there, and a plea to end the arguement. What do you want to happen? Questions answered or thread retired?

I think it's obvious why Desslock is pursuing this: he's a lawyer. It's instinctive for him to sense weakness and expose fault when attacked. To ask for burdon of proof is the ultimate way to manipulate a lawyer into baring his fangs.

Alan, sorry to hear about the job. I don't know much about your job history, but, if you have at least three games under your belt, you shouldn't have too much difficulty finding a new company. I think Mary-Margaret is a good recruiter, as well, if you haven't tried her. I met her at the last GDC and she seemed really professional.

http://www.mary-margaret.com/

As for WW2 Online, at least people have heard of the game. If you had been fired after working on Fighting Legends, you might have had a tougher time of it. :-)

Finally: good thread. Over 1400 views. Biggest post in this forum. More people now know Alan needs a job than if he posted this in any other place. Who knows, maybe it will outgrow the XBox-Live thread! Alan should thank Chet, Steve and Desslock for the extended life they brought to this plea for sympathy and employment.



John

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to another wonderful edition of Wheel Of Misfortune!

For those of you who've never had the fortune of watching our great show, here's the skinny. Every night, we take into account a handful of contestants. Each one is to be brought into the limelight, thinking that they are about to win some grand, exotic cruise, or maybe a paid vacation to Hawaii. But you see, there-in the ignorance lies the true brilliance. We *are* going to surprise them, but boy oh boy, will it ever be on the wrong side of the rainbow for them!

Tonight, let's meet our four contestants! We have the grand goomba, Chet. His half-assed (but still able to sling enough shit around for both cheeks) would-be side-kick Erik. Desslock, the ever omnipresent lawyer. Steve, who is, well, to be frank, a fucking dumbass who couldn't contribute any sort of intelligent literature to a magazine if he was writing the captions for tit-pics in Maxim. Jason Becker, who when asked, couldn't tell you the difference between Vietnam and Korea, but hey, he knows his movies and games! And we all know that's what matters here in America, right?

And finally, last but not least, John! John is a former contestant of our sister-show Troll That Board! And for those of you who remember his performance on that show, lemme tell ya, this guy couldn't bait a fat woman if he was drunk, had a pierced tongue, and was packing lamb-chops in a market bag.

Okay, and here we go! The wheel is off! Oh no... looks like it's off to a quick start. Spinning... spinning... which one of our lucky contestants will be the one to take home the ultimate prize? Will it be Chet? John? Or maybe it will surprise everyone and actually dispense justice to the lawyer... hey, we like them as much as everyone, they keep all the whiny-ass ethics groups off our backs, but we gotta lube 'em up and slam it in sometimes, right?

Oh ho ho! She's slowing down... she's slowing down... whoa, nelly! Look at that. She stopped on the pin. You know what that means, don't you audience?

"Yes, Pat!"

That's right, folks, you in the studio audience and at home are in for a special treat tonight. You see, when we get so lucky as to have the ticker actually get stuck on the pins, it means ALL of our lucky contestants win!... what? What? Oh Christ, it looks like the blood-sucking lawyer is going to try and fight it. Looks like he's the first to go!

Ladies and gentlemen, Desslock, your prize for the night! Yes, that's right, behind the curtain the whole time we held back the army of the undead. But this is no army of the undead... it's the army of the righteous undead. For every flee-bag that supposed law has put away, it's executed hundreds more innocent men, and boy oh boy, an eternity of being dead sure pisses them off, rig---Whoa! Ha Ha Ha! Man, wouldja look at that? Looks like one of 'em just took a bite out of Desslock that would make a Zombie proud! Did someone bring the ketchup? Zing!

etc...

You're all a bunch of fucking schmucks. So why don't you all shut the fuck up?

[chet]

Winner of most changed poster - Met_K.

On the old boards known as the complete idiot that everyone ignored and never posted about others, to his new persona as the loud idiot. I love the makeover.

And I am so glad to see my post about your musical sense/ability/prestige so hit home you now mention me in every single one of your posts. I wish my life was so devoid of variety that I could keep a singular focus on one individual on a message board. I can barely remember to call my parents once a week.

But you have outstanding focus and determination.

Still have no idea what you are posting about when you post about me. But no bother, as with most printed text about me, I just search for my name and when found stare at it and repeat it again and again.

I feel special. I am now so famous a complete stranger on a message board feels the need to mention my name in every single one of his posts. He even fantasizes about my job and my life, creating some imaginary world for me to live in. I am pretty sure chetsucks.com is still available, can you buy it and create a site about me? That would... rock.

Thanks,

Chet

[Met_K]

Winner of most changed poster - Met_K.

On the old boards known as the complete idiot that everyone ignored and never posted about others, to his new persona as the loud idiot. I love the makeover.

And I am so glad to see my post about your musical sense/ability/prestige so hit home you now mention me in every single one of your posts. I wish my life was so devoid of variety that I could keep a singular focus on one individual on a message board. I can barely remember to call my parents once a week.

But you have outstanding focus and determination.

Still have no idea what you are posting about when you post about me. But no bother, as with most printed text about me, I just search for my name and when found stare at it and repeat it again and again.

I feel special. I am now so famous a complete stranger on a message board feels the need to mention my name in every single one of his posts. He even fantasizes about my job and my life, creating some imaginary world for me to live in. I am pretty sure chetsucks.com is still available, can you buy it and create a site about me? That would... rock.

It's about fucking time you responded. I was beginning to think my l337 T|20ll s|<i11z h4d b33|\| h4x0r3d 2 0bl1v10|\|.

D3wd, d4t t|20ll w|_|z w34k. L00z3r. Ch3t, y0|_|r 15 m|n|_|73z |2 ^.

Thanks, that's all.

Edit: Oh, and I do hate hate haaaate to actually respond to a piece of your completely horrid troll, but when was I ever ignored? I was actually a better troll back on the old board than on this one. Not only that, but I made up the rest of the anonymous posts with SiNNER. Quite fun it was, quite fun.

Haa Haa! Only the most pretentious shitheads on this site are ignoring me now. I even get called an anonymous slanderer, when, in fact, I am not anonymous, but registered! Ah ha!

Okay, yes, I'm rather done now. Please reply to my troll. Please?

[Mark Asher]

"I don't get it. You're just a freelancer. What do you care what anyone says about the places you work for?"

Why do you care enough to read this thread and reply? Obviously, there's something of interest here for you.

Most of the people who post here are avid gamers and avid readers of gaming websites and magazines, if in fact many of them don't do work for various publications. That's why the thread and responses are interesting.

Denny, Tom and I have admin access. Desslock has never had that kind of access. In theory, Tom and I could moderate, but in practice we've almost never done that. I removed some HTML encoding from a few inane messages a long time ago (but left the text up), deleted a thread that was going HTML crazy for some reason I didn't want to puzzle out, and moved messages on these boards after we created some categories. That's been the extent of my meddling.

[Anonymous]

http://members.aol.com/essobmcc/brakbook/zorvlen.gif

[Anonymous]

Denny, Tom and I have admin access. Desslock has never had that kind of access.
Are you talking about the old board or the new one?

In other words, someone other than you or Tom (or Chet nowadays?) couldn't have any form of "proof" of any anonymous poster unless you or Tom gave him that information, correct? So either he'd be bluffing or you've pretty much violated the ethics, such as they are, of running a message board by sharing posting information with outsiders, correct?

[DennyA]

First you said...

You know, it's probably ironic for someone who practices a form of "journalism" to admin a board that allows anonymous posting then "out" the anonymous poster when they say something they disagree with or criticizes a publication they're associated with.

Then you said...

So either he'd be bluffing or you've pretty much violated the ethics, such as they are, of running a message board by sharing posting information with outsiders, correct?

Er, Steve, I think there's a disconnect here. Are you talking about QT3 here? Because Desslock doesn't admin this board (I didn't think he did...)

Are you confusing him with Geryk, who used to be the third point in the QT3 triumvirate?

And at least in this thread, he's never claimed to have actual posting evidence. When he said:

How ridiculous do you feel knowing that I'm correct in my accusations, when you publicly post these denials?
I think he was simply speaking from a personal feeling of surety that you had done it.

Ironically, though, if he never actually did have posting info, but you're accusing him of disclosing posting info, then you're backing up his accusations. Which would make my upstream defense of you moot. And confuse me, since as I said, I've never known you to be shy about expressing opinions under your own name. :-)

Of course, this whole thing is just silly anyway. Let's all go over and beat up on Gamersclick for not cross-referencing every article on their free site with every other web review in existence.

[Mark Asher]

Both boards. Frankly, even with admin access, I don't know what to do to trace posts. I know Desslock said he could on the old boards even without admin access, but I didn't know how he did it. There may have been information about the originating IP address that he could see somehow.

[Anonymous]

Er, Steve, I think there's a disconnect here. Are you talking about QT3 here? Because Desslock doesn't admin this board (I didn't think he did...)
I was just trying to figure out who would have access to access logs.


Ironically, though, if he never actually did have posting info, but you're accusing him of disclosing posting info, then you're backing up his accusations.
Nah, I was just curious if you could tie a message to an IP address, which if that's the so-called proof, would be easily dismissed. And for the love of GodGames, I'd hope the "proof" goes beyond a hunch.

[Matthew Gallant]

Nobody loves G.O.D. Games.

[Anonymous]

I'll repost it to highlight your aversion: did you ever criticize another publication while posting under a name other than Steve, Steven, or Steve Bauman or Steven Bauman?
And what of your aversion to actual posting any actual proof of your accusation? Here, I'll highlight it you: What did I allegedly say, when did I say it, and what proof do you have I said it? I'm not a big high-powered lawyer, in real-life or in my fantasy online life, but merely saying, "I know it's true, nyah nyah" doesn't hold much water, does it?

I am curious about one thing, though: Which part of "It wasn't me!" was unclear when I denied previous accusations? I've pretty consistently said, "Um, no" when people accused me of making a bunch of posts.

For fun, answer this: Have you ever posted messages under any name other than Desslock, or your real name? It's a simple question. A "Yes" or "No" answer is all that's required.

I've had multiple people tell me otherwise in the last few days, and some of them are as credible as "my favorite freelancer." (By the way, it was nice of you to introduce that to bolster your charge in liu of any actual, I dunno, evidence... credibility through association, brilliant. I figured I'd use it here too.) Some of the messages were trolls, some attacks on other people here. You and I both know the answer is "Yes," but I'd like to hear it from you, particularly in light of your comments about, how did it go?, something about being man enough to stand by all of your posts. Admitting you post anonymous messages yourself would probably make you something of a hypocrite, and call your credibility on this whole matter into question.

By the way, if you don't answer this question, it's an admission of guilt. I think that's the way it works around here. In fact, you're already guilty because you haven't denied it yet. I'll be sure to point out your message board crime multiple times in the rest of this message and all subsequent ones, just like you do. Because if you say something enough times, it becomes true.


If you think it's totally cool to post under a different name and criticize other publications -- cool -- now's your chance to defend it (even though at least one of the publications you criticized fired a full-time editor for doing exactly what you've done in the past), because that publication viewed such conduct to be intolerably unprofessional.
I could really care less, since message boards don't matter, particularly those that fetaure anonymous posts from you, Desslock, under different names. They're fun, they can occasionally be insightful, but they represent, well, pretty much nothing in the end. Unless of course you're Desslock, repeatedly posting anonymous trolls under wacky names.

You yourself say you dismiss all anonymous posts, like those posted anonymously or under wacky names by you, Desslock. So if I, or someone else (such as you, Desslock, when you post anonymously or under wacky names), posts an anonymous message bashing anyone or anything (like you, Desslock, do from time to time), isn't it dismissable? I know this is tough to grasp, especially when you, Desslock, post the same kinds of anonymous messages. So why are you getting so worked up, particularly since you post anonymous messages under wacky names?

Why don't you admit why you're doing all of this. You're so concerned about your own reputation that it's open season on any person that dares criticize the publications you write for (CGW and Gamespot). If their reputations take any sort of hit, it's a bad mark on your own. In other words, all of this is merely an issue of your ego, not any desire to uncover some grand truth. Because in this case, the truth is pretty irrelevant. But your reputation, at least to you, isn't. Whee! I'm bitter boy!

[Anonymous]

Nobody loves G.O.D. Games.
I figure it's safer to take Mike Wilson's name in vain than the big G's.

[Anonymous]

HELLO IAM STEVE BAUMANN AND YOU ALL SUCK!!!!11!!21!@

[Anonymous]

that last post was by me. OR WAS IT!

[Jason McCullough]

Those of you calling for the removal of the Everything Else board, I point you at this inanity. Whoops, I just noticed this is *on* that board. Ok, maybe you have a point.

[Desslock]

>Why don't you admit why you're doing all of this

... because you're an ass, who consistently posted anonymous messages to insult people and publications when you didn't have the courage to accept responsibility for making those statements. Instead of just accepting responsibility and apologizing, or justifying your actions, you've taken a scatterbrained and logically inconsistent approach of stating:

- "How did you find out!!" blaming and threatening the board administrators for giving me information (which, as Denny indicated, just highlighted the fact that you knew that information evidenced your conduct).
- "you do it too, I think, so it's o.k. if I did!!" which isn't true, at all. I have never posted an anonymous post insulting anyone. And you?
- "well, how come you don't tell on other people who also do it!!" well, frankly, because your tendency was more noticable than anyone else. I may never have noticed if you hadn't posted some particularly nasty personal attacks while using the aliases "Roger Ebert's Enormous Ass" and "Gene Siskel's Bald Shiny Head". But, by all means, continue insulting others who use "goofy pseudonyms"

I don't need to convince you, because you already know that everything I've said in this thread is correct. But, again, instead of accepting responsibility for your actions, you keep threatening your own "friends" just because they're also aware of actions you voluntarily took.

At the end of the day, notwithstanding your hyperactive ventilating, all I've done is reveal your actions (and others here can agree with your conduct or not, and form their own conclusions about whether or not your actions were appropriate). Think about that for a second before you reply again, and consider whether my actions are actually an appropriate catalyst for your next batch of confusing vitriol.

>Whee! I'm bitter boy!

And you have some pretty serious emotional problems, which your own posts demonstrate with disturbing lucidity.

[Dirt]

Those of you calling for the removal of the Everything Else board, I point you at this inanity. Whoops, I just noticed this is *on* that board. Ok, maybe you have a point.

I vote for this thread to be locked.

[Dirt]

And I _still_ can't use the quote function...

[wumpus]

At the end of the day, notwithstanding your hyperactive ventilating, all I've done is reveal your actions (and others here can agree with your conduct or not, and form their own conclusions about whether or not your actions were appropriate). Think about that for a second before you reply again, and consider whether my actions are actually an appropriate catalyst for your next batch of confusing vitriol.
Form conclusions based on what evidence? Lawyer, heal thyself. Your peculiar brand of wink-wink nudge-nudge vigilantism is hardly better than what you're accusing Steve of.

Either put up the evidence, in which case we all actually CAN reach our own conclusions, or with all due respect, STFU.

[Mark Asher]

Those of you calling for the removal of the Everything Else board, I point you at this inanity. Whoops, I just noticed this is *on* that board. Ok, maybe you have a point.

I vote for this thread to be locked.

I'm sort of against locking threads.

[Anonymous]

"I'm sort of against locking threads."

[Tom Chick]

Dateline: Prague.

Firstly, contrary to what Stefan wrote earlier, I don't know jack squat about anybody posting or not posting anonymously.

Secondly, Mark and I would like this board to be open to anonymous posts without fear of someone (e.g. certain Canadian lawyers) outing them. That goes for criticism of other pubs, gloating about people getting laid off, and homoerotic Shoot Club parodies.

Thirdly, Prague is pretty cool. I'm in love with every third woman I see and I have serious crushes on the other two.

Off for a beer now,

-Tom

[mtkafka]

Hey! What the hell are you doing in Prague?!? That's cool! Go and visit Bohemia Interactive and see if they're making OFP2... the BF42 killer!

BTW, its flooded there isn't it? I hope your ok dude!

etc

[graller]

Tom - Don't tell everyone how cheap the beer is there or how good it is either......

Man I loved being in Prague.

[Joe O'Malley]

I'm sort of against locking threads.

Fess up, you just forgot the password.

:wink:

[Bernie_Dy]

Dammit, enough fighting. Everyone go here for a laugh.

http://www.umu.man.ac.uk/smint/

[Jason Becker]

without fear of someone (e.g. certain Canadian lawyers) outing them.


CGW was right. Those damn Canadians.

[Ken Hicks]

I can't figure out how to use the quote function either! :?

[Anonymous]

Have a Budwar on me,Tom.

[Anonymous]

Thirdly, Prague is pretty cool. I'm in love with every third woman I see and I have serious crushes on the other two.

My God, it's worse than we thought. Are you wearing a black turtleneck? You're not riding a little scooter, are you? What language do they speak there (besides the language of love, that is)? Pragmatic? I don't know, but it's dangerously full of "z"s and "j"s! I'm worried about you, Tom. Don't get in any of their cars -- they're death traps! Don't eat the cabbage! Don't make plans to bring back some woman and make puns like "the Czech's in the mail"! Honestly, I'm not going to be able to sleep until you're within a mile of of Pico & Sepulveda.

[Jim Hoffman]

Back to the original subject, my condolences Alan.
Where are you planning to go from here?
Do you have any interviews yet?

How are things going since the layoff?

[Alan Dunkin]

Decided to take it relatively easy the next few weeks, do some much-needed reading, and pass out my highly vaunted resume to some magazines, publishers, etc. in the hope of acquiring something that resembles a steady income or at least enough to live on, and collect some unemployment along the way.

If I don't really nix something down by say near the end of September it's time to really start looking hard at Domino's jobs or something like that.

Anyone, trying to work over some editors (Steve :) and see what happens. Some of it -- since having to diversify seems to be the way to go right now -- seems to be just what the hell you want to pitch, and best way to do it. My previous experiences in the industry have been nearly "all or nothing" jobs, meaning I did almost all of my work for one group or company and not much elsewhere. Now it's gotta be all over the place I think, or at least areas I have some knowledge of -- games, history/military history, science & technology, fiction, stuff like that. Hopefully.

--- Alan

[Alan Dunkin]

Oh yeah, and I rediscovered the public library. The Richardson Public Library is actually not too bad and they pick up some recent goodies, and since its free is a lot cheaper than buying them, which is probably one of my biggest expenses, moreso than games. And there's no limit (there's a time limit of 3 weeks but not book limit) so I'm taking full advantage.

--- Alan

[Anonymous]

... because you're an ass
Ooh, personal attacks. You seem to have some anger management issues.


Instead of just accepting responsibility and apologizing, or justifying your actions, you've taken a scatterbrained and logically inconsistent approach of stating:
Can't accept responsibility for things I didn't say, or at least I think I didn't say since you haven't actually said what you think I said.

And just so everyone is clear, Desslock went on this crusade because he thinks I made fun of him once. Which I probably did. Which points out that whole "enormous ego" issue, but anyway...


I have never posted an anonymous post insulting anyone.
Note the qualification. In other words, you don't deny making anonymous posts, which sort of casts an interesting light on your whole position here of "always standing behind your posts" or some other such nonsense. Since you've contradicted your earlier position on always posting under your name, how can anyone take your grandstanding here seriously? It's okay to post anonymously so long as people don't make fun of you or publications you're associated with?


And you have some pretty serious emotional problems, which your own posts demonstrate with disturbing lucidity.
A lawyer and a psychiatrist, wow, what a package. I'd say one of us has some emotional problems, but my shrink says it's might be you.

And to all those people sending funny Desslock stories via e-mail, keep 'em coming. This stuff is hilarious.

Back to Battlefield 1942. Now that's some fun.

[Anonymous]

Alan,

This probably isn't your bag, but I used to work for a firm in Richardson, TX that might conceivably need your expertise:

Macromedia.

Their Fireworks and FreeHand products are developed in Richardson (the rest are developed in San Francisco). They employ a gaggle of programmers and QA folks for those products.

Also, Corel may have an office there, as they aquired Micrografix, which was located in Richardson.

Just a couple wild leads for ya.

[Alan Dunkin]

I just recently noticed they are apparently moving their Richardson offices to wherever they were to a relatively new 10+ story building that [I'm guessing] still houses Inet Technologies. At least, that's what I'm assuming, as I saw a Macromedia sign outside (and Inet is on top). Never seen that before.. I did check Macromedia already and didn't see any local jobs but I can keep looking.

Micrografx is also very, very close -- thanks for the tips.

By the way, as far as gaming companies go, Parsoft and Graphsim used to be within a few miles of here.. Parsoft I think either went single (that is, one employee) or Tango Uniform (tits up) and Graphsim moved to north Dallas or thereabouts where they still do PC to Mac conversions and occasionally release an F/A-18 sim :)

--- Alan

[Anonymous]

here's a sad, but somewhat amusing tale

the lead programmer on FreeHand was this genius nerd whom everyone in the office would run to for help with programming problems

one day, the head of the company sells the firm (which was called altsys at the time) to macromedia, and jump starts a new venture: a game company. he takes with him the prime programmer and one or two other of the cream of the crop programmers, to start this company and become stinking rich.

what platform did they choose to program for? none other than 3DO. oops... company goes bankrupt in short order. genius programmer has to go back to freehand team, with hat in hand, looking for his job back. only now they've learned to live without running to him all of the time. suddenly he is no longer quite so indispensible.

moral of the story: 3DO was an unforgiving bitch goddess

[Desslock]

>And just so everyone is clear, Desslock went on this crusade because he thinks I made fun of him once. Which I probably did

Oh no! You've repeated the offense - to Bethlehem, men!

Don't be ridiculous. I pointed out your conduct because it's unprofessional and incredibly inappropriate for you to anonymously post insults of other publications and writers. Some teeny part of your walnut knows the same thing. I agree with the decision made by one such publication to fire an editor for doing the exact same thing (those posts were also anonymous, Bub). Did it bug me? Sure, bugged me enough to point out that you were the one who made the comments, in case anyone was under the illusion that you acted professionally.

But you've given everyone ample material in this thread to ridicule you. Everything I've said in this thread is true, so one of us is lying. I'm cool with people arriving at their own conclusions about who's lying based upon what's already been said. Since you're bringing your mailbag into this, I'll directly quote one of the e-mails I received this week: "I think that it's pretty glaringly obvious to a normal observer of that conversation that Bauman is (a) a nutcase, and (b) caught."

>but my shrink

Well, it's cool that you're addressing at least one of those glaringly obvious traits.

Stefan

[graller]

You both realize no one else cares? Can you please take it offline...I am embarrassed to admit I subscribe to BOTH the magazines you work for if this is the way you conduct yourselves.

[chet]

You both realize no one else cares?

Do you realize you aren't forced to read this? But thanks for speaking for everyone on this forum.

As for the old school napster, I too have recently fell in love with the library again. I can order cds,dvds and books online and pick them up from a drive thru window. Who needs blockbuster,napster or shoplifting books from borders? Back to rebuilding my higher quality mp3 collection.

Chet

[graller]

Chet - you are one of the people that stop and stare at traffic accidents too right? :D

[chet]

Okay, now I understand, this is really, really over your head so let me break it down.

When you see a thread has new posts, check the name of the thread. Write it down. Read the thread. If you do not like the contents of that thread, make an X next to the thread name.

When you return to QT3 and see some threads with new posts, check your handy guide to see if that is a thread you have on your new do not read list.

Because, remember, YOU DON'T HAVE TO READ EVERY THREAD!!!!!

If two adults want to go at each other on end in a thread, better it be kept to one thread and just ignore that thread, then it spreading across the entire message board.

How does this thread hurt you? Is it stealing your bandwidth? Is it taking time away from some valuable project you are working on? Do you lose sleep because two people who write about games are not living up to some high journalistic integrity you have imagined in your brain? Whatever the reason, stop reading it.

But you obviously can't.

Yes! Two people debating in public = car wreck! Wow! Point for you and your amazing debating skills. If you were debating with desslock it would be over, he would have to hang it up! Because you obviously have shown that when you have no actual point, it is time to just be stupid. BRAVO!!!!

Chet

[graller]

Obviosly my attempt at being funny went right over your head Chet. Thats what little smiley icons usually indicate..I do applaud your l33t insulting skills however.

[chet]

When some people go to a page, their eyes automatically block out the banners.

Mine block out smilies.

Chet

[wumpus]

Hilarious.

[Dave Long]

So if Bauman posted anonymously and you have the proof, why not just tell us which posts it is/was and we can all read them and decide for ourselves whether we care or not? Why the hush, hush secrecy about what it is he really did post? If you're so sure of it, outing the exact posts can't hurt anymore than what you're doing now already does...

I mean...you can say this...


Everything I've said in this thread is true, so one of us is lying.

...but that doesn't make anything you've said true now does it? We (those reading this thread) probably don't know either of you well enough to just take you at face value. You're a lawyer...where's the burden of proof here? I think it's with you...but maybe I'm not up on all this legal system stuff?

...and to quote Uncle on Jackie Chan Adventures... "One mooore thing!" This is like Chet and SiNNER all over again. Someone makes an accusation but doesn't present anything to prove it. Why? What's the bone you're picking? Why do it here? More importantly, why ruin your reputation by making this kind of accusation but presenting nothing to back it up? I don't get it.

--Dave

[Murph]

Regardless of who's telling the truth, thus far Desslock's reputation has been hurt more than Steve's in my eyes. Until "proof" is given, this looks a lot like slander.

I admire and respect both of these guys, so it really sucks to see this happening.

[wumpus]

Nobody's so-called "reputation" has been harmed in this forum. Give me a break.

Everybody has their little (and in Desslock's case, not so little) axes they like to grind.

[Murph]

Fine, I'll rephrase: My respect for Desslock has dropped a notch.

Yeah, I know -- he cares deeply, I'm sure. And it's not like I can't stand the guy now or anything, it's just...It seems so petty, and, since he's presented no proof, slanderous.

[Sparky]

OKAY! OKAY! I have to get these skeletons out of my closet...I have posted on QT3 as "Salman Rushdie" and "Edgar Allan Poe".

Whew. I feel better now.

[Met_K]

OKAY! OKAY! I have to get these skeletons out of my closet...I have posted on QT3 as "Salman Rushdie" and "Edgar Allan Poe".

Whew. I feel better now.

I've posted anonymously on QT3 as George Lucas. That's -it-.

Yeah, bitches, remember that screed? Now get me a fucking coke.

[Sean Tudor]

This is almost as good as a Derek Smart PHD thread.

Desslock : You're lying and you don't have a PHD

Steve : I have a PHD but I don't have to prove anything - where's your proof ?

Desslock : You dirty liar - you know you don't have a PHD

Steve : Where's your proof ?

Desslock : Everyone here KNOWS you don't have a PHD

Steve : Where's your proof ?

Desslock : Confess Steve - you don't have a PHD - come on say it

Steve : Where's your proof ?

Desslock : Steve - open the pod bay door

Steve : I will not !

Desslock : Open the pod bay door now Steve

Steve : Nyah nyah !

Desslock : Poo bum !

Steve : Idiot

Desslock : Lawyer lawyer pants on fire !

Steve : Where's your proof ?

[chet]

Sean Tudor - damn you. Damn you to hell. Talk about creating a memory of nightmare exchanges. We still get people emailing us the inside dope on a certain someone's phd.

ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!

[Sparky]

OKAY! OKAY! I don't even have a bachelor's degree. Also, I didn't pass high school algebra. And I didn't hand in the Latin Club Secretary book by School Awards Night, but I got a letter anyway...but I just threw it in a drawer because it is very uncool to have a jacket with a letter for Latin on it, and as is clearly obvious, I was all about the cool (as are all eighteen-year-old girls who have spiral perms that make them look like Kip Winger). But please, don't any of you tell Mrs. Scarborough I still have the Latin book.

This thread is so cathartic.

[Anonymous]

Well well well, I knew if I waited long enough Little Miss Scofflaw would out herself. NOW GIVE THE DAMN BOOK BACK!

[Mark Asher]

"This thread is so cathartic."

I had driver's ed first period in high school and I came in with red eyes because I liked to stay up late and the teacher told my parents I was on dope. And one time many years ago I was interviewing for a job and they made me wait so long I got bored and sleepy and the interviewer asked me if I was on dope because my eyes were watery from yawning a lot.

I also almost flunked high school trig. Damn, math classes are boring!

Ok, I got that off my chest!

[graller]

Don't talk to me about books - I still have the original editions of Two Towers and Return of the King I stole from my junior high school library....

[Anonymous]

OKAY! OKAY! I have to get these skeletons out of my closet...I have posted on QT3 as "Salman Rushdie"

Oh shit, that was you? ok, just don't answer the door or start your car for a while. I've got to make some phone calls...

[Alan Dunkin]

Update: Well frustratingly so far it seems like initially contacting people isn't hard, it's getting them to reply to you or tell you anything meaningful -- one big exception has been Steve, who's been pretty nice about it. I guess a letter-writing campaign is probably in order at some point..

Guess I should really set up a website and blog it incessantly...

--- Alan

[runesword forger]

Tact is knowing what to leave unsaid. A lost art, I suppose.

I had a friend who just got canned from a high level job at an airline. He was upset, thinking about how he was going to pay his bills and support his family.

He also got 6 months severance, which is far more than the rank and file got, and his home is one of those ridiculous 5,000 sq ft suburbanite housing community mansions. He doesn't really know what being up against it is about.

But he's still upset, understandably. He doesn't need in-your-face truth right now.

[Bernie_Dy]

Any updates Alan?

I too just received my two week notice...dang, I surived several waves of cuts, but it's too harsh in Houston right now. Actually, it wasn't unexpected, but the timing sucks. Baby coming in December. Doh.

[Mark Asher]

Sorry to hear that Bernie. High tech is really a tough market now. I've been looking for tech writing jobs and the St. Louis market is just dead. I talk to the agencies once every few weeks and they tell me they haven't had a request for a tech writer in the past year.

Just make sure your wife has that baby on time so you get the tax credit. It would be a shame if she had it on Jan. 1. :)

[Bub, Andrew]

Sorry to hear that Bernie. Email me, I might be able to help you find some freelance work.

[Bernie_Dy]

Andrew, Mark, thanks for the kind words. I'm scrambling around to see what I can find.

It is definitely tough right now...but I've been a good boy and built my emergency fund up, so I can surivive without a job and by conserving for several months. I can also sell off all my #$%! useless investments at a loss and get a few pennies and a tax write-off. It won't come to that...I will go work as a floor licker at a Chuck E Cheese's if that's what it takes to keep a trickle coming in :wink:

The key is my current contracting vendor...if they'll be so kind as to keep me on their payroll even though I'm not billing, just for medical benefits purposes until the end of the year, then I get to dodge a big bullet. Even if they don't, I think I can use COBRA to keep the benefits a few more months. Baby will definitely be here before Jan!

[Alan Dunkin]

Any updates Alan?

I too just received my two week notice...dang, I surived several waves of cuts, but it's too harsh in Houston right now. Actually, it wasn't unexpected, but the timing sucks. Baby coming in December. Doh.

Damn Bernie, that sucks.

My update... well I've taken on a little bit of temp. contract work here and there to basically keep me afloat, and I'm back off of unemployment for now. Have a little review for CGM I need to finish up today but not a whole lot going on otherwise... some stuff is not panning out very well.

--- Alan