Fallout 3 Character Builds [Archive] - Quarter To Three Forums

tromik

11-02-2008, 10:59 AM

I went for strength and endurance, with small guns, first aid, and repair perks. I think. I started Fallout 1 recently and I think I used those for that character, so I can't remember if I did the same for both, or what.

I've heard that it's a good idea to start investing in energy weapons early. Also, I find it easier to kill most of non-human enemies with melee weapons than with my 10mm non-Chinese pistols (Chinese guns are all better than non-Chinese guns, it seems).

If you start doing what I do and run right up into an enemy's face and use VATS to turn their face inside out, melee weapons and shotguns seem to make things pretty easy.

Repair is great, though. For one, it makes inventory management much easier since you're basically just combining items. So if you're a packrat (like me) with repair, you can turn a bunch of junk into something awesome and save on weight.

Sharpe

11-02-2008, 11:01 AM

Some quick tips to make the start easy:

As a default, pick Small Guns as a tag skill and raise it early. Keep it at something like 25+(10 x your level) or thereabouts and you will find plentiful weapons with which to shoot the eyeballs out of stuff.

Repair will help keep you going and has some use in quests also.

Agility and Endurance will help you in the early game more than any other stat, and Str is very useful to carry more stuff.

Int and Speech are only helpful over the longer haul and not all that great right up front. Int gives you points every time you level which adds up in the long haul. Speech needs to be at least 50 or 60 before you have good chances at winning the speech challenges.

Luck is IMO a stat you either ignore or pump hugely if you want to make a "luck focused" character (recommended for a later play-through only). Charisma is really not that important in my view, unless you want to go really deep into Speech perks.

Here's a basic starter setup for an all purpose shooter/talker character:

Per: 6
End:6
Agi: 7
Int: 6

Tag Skills: Small Guns, Repair, Speech. Early Perks: Gun Nut. Early on put points primarily into Small Guns and secondarily into Speech and tertiarily into Repair. You will be eligible for the good shooting perks down the road and should be able to shoot your way out of most situations, with the option to talk. Repair will make you largely self-sustaining.

You can swap out the speech for a heavier weapon skill if you like, or for a different support skill. If you want more carrying capacity, drop Int to 5 and raise Str to 6.

Equisilus

11-02-2008, 11:02 AM

According to the manual, Luck raises all of your skills a bit and improves your critical hit chance. It doesn't say anything about raising your "chance of good or bad things happening". I haven't seen the insides of the code, but is the suggestion out there that Luck does more than what the manual says?

But yes, do Repair and definitely combat skills/perks. It's difficult to play without them.

Skorin

11-02-2008, 11:15 AM

I'm on my second play-through now, and my new evil girl build is:

STR: 7
PER: 4
END: 9
CHA: 1
INT: 9
AGI: 9
LUCK: 1

Plus a few bobbleheads and spoilery boosts. I focused on Small Arms, Repair, and Lockpicking, with quite a few points going into Melee Weapons for the hell of it. Oh, and I got Science to 50 to be able to access most of the computers in the game.

The perks I took, in order, were:

-Black Widow (Kind of regretting this now, since there are barely any new dialogue options. Still, 10% more damage against males is nice.)
-Intense Training: Perception
-Educated
-Intense Training: Perception
-Intense Training: Perception
-Gun Nut
-Commando
-Strong Back
-Finesse

And that's where I'm at right now. On Normal difficulty, nothing's remotely challenging, which was kind of the point. I just want to explore and be a general asshole to everyone.

Sam Jones

11-02-2008, 11:16 AM

If you're an "explorer", you'll definitely want your Lockpick and Science to at least 50, to get you into places and to get extra information or open security doors or safes, etc. Nothing worse than spending an hour exploring an derelict Vault and finding the Overseer's office has a higher grade lock than you can open.....

TriggerHappy

11-02-2008, 11:17 AM

Skill points are a huge deal. I topped out my INT to start, left everything else at 5. At level 4 I took the perk that gives you 3 more skill points per level. At level 5 I took the perk that gives you 2 points for reading a skill book instead of 1. At level 6 my Small Guns and Repair are both maxed out, and I'm already increasing my speech and explosives skills. Combat is a breeze. Right now I'm focusing on increasing my Agility to give me more action points, then I'll focus on Charisma for better dialogue options.

Hawkeye Fierce

11-02-2008, 11:18 AM

TheRock

11-02-2008, 11:23 AM

Let's have 'em if you got 'em please. I'm terrible at this sort of thing and replaying the beginning of an RPG 500 times is surprisingly getting old! I'd offer mine but ha ha, mine sucks and thus this thread.

http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=48287

Chris Woods

11-02-2008, 11:26 AM

I've found the following build (mine, but corrected for hindsight) to be really good. Currently level 16 and can handle most situations with ease. The build is designed to be able to experience as much as the game as possible in one playthough (I'm not big on replaying) so can go most anywhere and handle basically any situation.

Stats:
5 Strength
6 Perception
4 Endurance
6 Charisma
8 Intelligence
6 Agility
5 Luck

Tag Skills:
Small Guns, Repair, and Explosives

Skill Progression:
I like Small Guns, Repair, Explosives, Science, Lockpicking, Speech, and Medicine. This build will have you swimming in skill points so getting these to high levels shouldn't be a problem. Remember that Science and Lockpicking appear to only really matter in multipled of 25, so 25 science is basically the same as 49 science. I'd say every third level just dump all of your points into making the next "break" with these skills.

Save *all* of the skill books you find until after you make level 5. Comprehension will net you 40-50 skill points *easily* and the word is it could potentially get you 324 if you find all the skill books in the game. From a skill point standpoint, Comp is hands down the best perk in the game.

Perks:
2- Intense Training (Intelligence)
3- Intense Training (Intelligence)
4- Educated
5- Comprehension
6- Demo Expert
7- Demo Expert
8- Demo Expert
9- Gun Nut
10- Gun Nut
11- Gun Nut
12- Sniper
13- Fast Metabolism
14- Cyborg
15- Daddy's Boy
16- Tag! (any skill you want that could use another 15 points)
17- Daddy's Boy
18- Daddy's Boy
19- Robotics Expert
20- Explorer

COMBAT:
Use grenades in VATS mode! Holy hell, frag grenades are common and at level 10 I was finishing off large groups of enemies in one VATS. You have just enough agility to throw 3 grenades, and they do upwards of 200 damage once you have triple Demo Expert and 100 Explosives.

Also, mines! You get experience for picking up armed mines (and you're going to find A LOT of them) and against melee enemies (like deathclaws) backpeddling and dropping out some mines is increadible.

Other then that, I carry a Combat Shotgun, Chineese Assault Rifle, and Hunters Rifle. These three guns can deal with basically everything I've ever encountered.

Chris Woods

Mordrak

11-02-2008, 11:38 AM

I wouldn't take any of the bonus skill point perks. If you're making a high int/comprehension/educated character, it's not worth it.

Ben Sones

11-02-2008, 11:54 AM

I started out putting two points apiece into Charisma and Agility, and one point into Perception. Tag skills: Small Arms, Sneak, Speech. The concept was a sort of silver-tongued thief character; not real strong in a stand-up fight, but great at getting the drop on tough enemies (or just avoiding them).

I put a lot of points into my Tag skills, and also into Lockpick and Repair. So far (level 11) I've taken 5 ranks of Intense Training, 3 ranks of Thief, one rank of Scoundrel, Gunslinger, Strong Back, and Child at Heart. My current SPECIAL looks like this:

S: 6
P: 7
E: 5
C: 9
I: 6
A: 7
L: 5

Child at Heart is a great Perk, BTW. I've gone from being a loner thief to a sort of Fagin-like character, sending young urchins out to steal stuff for me. It's great.

Anaxagoras

11-02-2008, 12:04 PM

I decided to make a mean-spirited, smooth talking racist boxer.

George Wallace

S: 7
P: 1
E: 6
C: 7
I: 7
A: 7
L: 5

Tagged skills: Unarmed, Repair, and Speech

I've just started with him, but I'm guessing that my principled stand to never talk to a mutant or other "lesser race" is going to cause serious difficulties. I may even have to break my rule eventually. Curse the Wastes!!!!!

olaf

11-02-2008, 12:44 PM

INT is the most valuable stat by far. Skill points>all and there are also a lot of INT conversation options. Also, running around with low INT does not get you Fallout1/2 conversation hilarity so...INT=9 to start with IMO.

The rest are harder to rank because they are so dependent on what kind of game you want to play.

STR is a must if you are unarmed or melee, its really not useful beyond that, as one point just gets you 10lbs of inventory.

PER I leave alone. I like the red dots on the compass.

END I also leave alone. I seem to do fine with 5.

CHA seems like a waste. I had a character with high speech and CHA and speech was by far more useful.

AGI is handy for VATS points.

LUCK, I like. Crits are never bad!

Regarding which skills to tag...in the other two games wasnt there a bonus to tag skills beyond the initial skill point boost? Like didnt grow faster as you put points into them on level up? Here they dont so its not that big of a deal. Repair is worth tagging for everyone IMO. I would also say every character needs at least one combat skill. Speech is a nice third one, but you really need it capped to be able to count on it and that is hard to do early.

jeffd

11-02-2008, 12:51 PM

Thoughts on skills:

Repair is crucial. Repair will let you turn average weapons into good weapons. The difference really is staggering - even the lowly hunting rifle becomes pretty sick when you get its condition up.

My build emphasizes small arms and sneaks for zany stealth criticals. I also skillup speech. I also got a smattering of other skills (demolitions, medicine) up to 30, which seems to be a sort of threshold for being able to do useful things.

Skill one of lockpicking or science up to the point where you can either open average locks, or hack average computers (I think the threshold here is 50).

Gendal

11-02-2008, 04:31 PM

I made a stealthy sniper with loads of action points and intelligence. Strength & Endurance suffered but with a good repair skill str 6 is fine and end 4 is enough as long as you use cover and stealth. I get a 15% crit chance just for using vats, plus the 10% from maxed luck (easy to do in game with items, perks, and bobblehead), plus 5% from finesse gives me at least a 30% chance to crit on every vat shot. It's like having bloody mess with out the perk.

schurem

11-02-2008, 04:44 PM

I'm wandering the wasteland as some sort of samurai intellectual. I started out with small arms and lots of repair and science, and stats that favor intelligence and charm to the detriment of pure physical strenght. As i wander the wasteland, i've learned to use melee weapons well, as well as the art of medicine. i'm dabbling in explosives and big guns, which i only use in emergencies. God i wish i found a helmet with stats that top the motorcycle helmet but doesnt look so damn silly. i love my dog, and my dog loves me.

Bill Dungsroman

11-02-2008, 06:04 PM

http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=48287

Whoops, sorry about that. It wasn't on the first page!

Harkonis

11-02-2008, 06:25 PM

gordonrumble

11-02-2008, 07:09 PM

Enidigm

11-02-2008, 07:42 PM

Str 3
Per 7
End 2
Cha 7
Int 8
AGI 7
LCK 6

Desslock

11-02-2008, 10:03 PM

Luck is more important than people realize - there IS a random encounter system, although it's so seamlessly integrated that you may not realize an encounter was random.

Intelligence, Agility, Luck are the most important, in that order.
Perception is good, but not necessary.
Strength, charisma and endurance are much less important (other than strength for melee characters)

Tom McNamara

11-02-2008, 10:14 PM

I discovered on my first play-through that the Energy Weapons skill isn't a clear winner like it was in previous Fallouts, because these weapons simply don't provide the leap in damage that they did before. You should be just fine with Small Guns. This frees up a boat load of points to spend on Lockpicking, Repair, and Speech. Not only does Speech make some encounters easier, it can also allow you to sidestep some tedious sub-quests.

I also didn't find Medicine to be a must-have. There's so much food and water available that pumping points into it felt like a bit of a waste. Yeah, drugs last longer and you get more HP from stimpacks, but combat-related skills more than balance out what you'd miss; kill things faster, and you don't have to heal yourself as much.

Ranged combat is a lot more effective than melee (although not as much fun); and since STR +1 only gives you ten more pounds of carrying capacity, it only takes ten pounds away every time you knock it down. Plus, you'll get your own storage space so early on that you'll rarely want for room, unless you're really into grenades and mines.

AGI and INT seem to be the most influential stats. INT gives you bunches of skill points and the occasional conversation options. AGI gives you more actions in VATS. The benefit of Charisma -- mostly just a conversation modifier -- is often made redundant with INT's conversation modifier. On my first play-through, I never encountered something I couldn't do because my Charisma wasn't high enough. If you're more of a lover than a fighter, though, I guess it wouldn't hurt.

Before you make any decisions, though, be sure to look at the Perks you want. Make note of what stats they require. I missed out on a few, and had to go out of my way to stat up for another, because I missed that detail.

Ben Sones

11-03-2008, 08:27 AM

I discovered on my first play-through that the Energy Weapons skill isn't a clear winner like it was in previous Fallouts, because these weapons simply don't provide the leap in damage that they did before.

I don't think that's true; like the previous Fallout games, the later energy weapons do (but they tend to be rare). The plasma rifle that I just got, for instance, does more damage than any of my Small Arms weapons (of which I have many, all repair-upgraded). My understanding is that the best Small Arms weapons tend to max out around 50, fully repaired (with the exception of the Terrible Shotgun). The top energy weapons do a lot more than that, but they aren't things that you'll find early on, or easily.

I don't think The skill was really a clear winner in the earlier Fallouts, either--it was just a great skill to have late in the game. But the tradeoff is that it was a nearly useless skill early on, because energy weapons just weren't very common in the early to mid game in Fallout 1 and 2. In Fallout 3, they have added some low-level energy weapons that are more common and do similar damage to other low-level weapons, so it's not a skill that will leave you totally hanging at the beginning of the game. But the early energy weapons aren't as good, damage-wise, as some of the early Small Arms weapons, so it's still a trade-off.

Skipper

11-03-2008, 08:40 AM

I'm in complete agreement with several others here that it's Intelligence (skill points), Agility (AP's), and Luck (+crit), in that order. Strength, perception and stamina can be raised with perks, but for god sakes start with high INT. That equates to skill points which equates to use of anything and everything in this game.

Tags are debatable, but I think you would get good agreement on small arms, repair, and probably lockpicking.

Character builds though, there are so many that would work. I definitely want to replay this game as an evil character. I mean come on ... you lose karma for stealing anything, even when they don't see you?

Ben Sones

11-03-2008, 08:54 AM

Well, "good karma" isn't typically a product of doing bad things but not getting caught, so it makes sense. ;)

My character steals a lot of stuff, but I still have a very positive karma level, since I make generally moral choices otherwise. You have to do more than petty theft to maintain a negative karma level in this game.

Mike Cathcart

11-03-2008, 09:04 AM

I've got 6 in everything and 9 in luck. Went the full unarmed route and currently crit damn near every shot, do about triple damage from stealth and can kill 4 people in one trip into VATS with no weapon equipped. It is quite a power rush playing this guy.

Wait, for real? That sounds great. A lot of people say that this game is worth two plays, one good one bad, but that never works for me. I get five minutes into bad and give up. But one with guns and one as ninja stealth punching guy? Yeah, that just might work. I hope you also took the perk that makes everything you kill explode.

peterb

11-03-2008, 09:23 AM

Energy weapons were seeming kinda wimpy to me until I pumped my luck up to 7 and my EW skills up to about the mid-70's. Now it seems like about every third shot I make something disintegrate into a pile of ash.

Yes, this is a good thing.

TylerG

11-03-2008, 10:50 AM

Mink Staccato

11-03-2008, 12:39 PM

I put 8 in Perception, Agility, and Intelligence. Tagged Sneak, Small Guns, and Lockpick. I've focused on those three skills plus repair as I've leveled up. I'd intended to be a sniper/thief type, but since theft kills karma and I wanted to go the good route this time, I'm really just a sniper.

I was curious about that too, because I'm playing a thief who also is "good". (Oxymoron, I know... The way I look at it, I'm like Robin Hood, but without the money... I steal from the everyone, but I give them Democracy/Hope/Less Bad Guys in return.)

Anyway, the karma lost from stealing hasn't dropped my karma raiting and I steal EVERYTHING. So, not sure if that really matters too much.

-Mink-

P.S. Next time I play, I'm planning on trying it as a bad guy who only uses melee weapons.

ElGuapo

11-03-2008, 12:47 PM

So is melee cool in the long run? By cool, I mean, effective. I had a fight last night where I ran out of ammo (for everything) and had to switch to a baseball bat. It was actually quite satisfying using this in VATS mode, but I got chewed up by gunfire a lot the instant I left VATS. What's a good build to make a better melee fighter?

I noticed you can do charged "power moves" ala Oblivion, as well.

Skipper

11-03-2008, 01:38 PM

I used the console to play with some stats here is what i found out. Charisma is a big factor in [speech] rolls. A 28% chance with 1 cha turned into 100% with 10. In vats perception only affects energy weapons accuracy. Likewise agility only affects small arms. Both don't seem to do that much at least at lower levels.

Don't forget that agility also adds AP's while in VATS. So besides the boost to small arms, it does get quite useful.

*mildly spoilerish info below*

If you want more of this it's at:
http://www.wikicheats.com/index.php/Fallout_3_-_PC_PS3_XB360/Character_Building

Agility Action Points Skill Modifiers (%)
1 67 Small Guns +2, Sneak +2
2 69 Small Guns +4, Sneak +4
3 71 Small Guns +6, Sneak +6
4 73 Small Guns +8, Sneak +8
5 75 Small Guns +10, Sneak +10
6 77 Small Guns +12, Sneak +12
7 79 Small Guns +14, Sneak +14
8 81 Small Guns +16, Sneak +16
9 83 Small Guns +18, Sneak +18
10 85 Small Guns +20, Sneak +20

*no matter what I do to align the columns here it's all screwed up on the post.

Jinsai

11-03-2008, 01:56 PM

Energy weapons are actually pretty sweet so far.
I would AVOID picking the "Swift Learner" perk - given how quickly you'll hit the level cap, it seems like a waste of a perk or two that could be spent on other things.

Tom McNamara

11-03-2008, 02:00 PM

Maybe my energy weapons didn't have a lot of oomph because I had only 6 in Perception. All I know is that with 8 AGI, I held my own quite well with an assault rifle, hunting rifle, and/or combat shotgun. The SMG is also pretty good, but you won't see those nearly as often as ARs or hunting rifles. Also, I really dig the VATS-slowed sounds of the AR and hunting rifle. Beefy.

Ben Sones

11-03-2008, 02:14 PM

Tom, did you have a decent Energy Weapons skill, or had you left it at its default level? Your weapon skills play a role in how much damage specific weapons do.

Tom McNamara

11-03-2008, 02:18 PM

Tom, did you have a decent Energy Weapons skill, or had you left it at its default level? Your weapon skills play a role in how much damage specific weapons do.

It was cranked up fairly high -- around 75 by the time I hit level 20. And I was pretty OCD about Repair, so I know that wasn't a factor. So my guess is that I needed a couple more points in Perception. Either way, I didn't feel cheated, because my AGI-based weapons were fun and tactically satisfying.

Trey

11-03-2008, 02:24 PM

Save *all* of the skill books you find until after you make level 5. Comprehension will net you 40-50 skill points *easily* and the word is it could potentially get you 324 if you find all the skill books in the game. From a skill point standpoint, Comp is hands down the best perk in the game.

Everyone should pay attention to this. I probably read like 30 books on my first play through and I only saw like 20% of the world.

Perks:
2- Intense Training (Intelligence)
3- Intense Training (Intelligence)

Why not start with higher initial INT and then use these Intense Training perks to boost whatever stat you stole the INT points from? Minor thing but you lost out on 3 skill points (2 when going from level 1 to level 2, 1 when going from level 2 to level 3). Also, if you know where the Intelligence bobblehead is, you could replace one of these perks with that early on. I was able to get it at level 2 by just making a beeline for it as soon as I stepped out of the Vault.

On my 2nd playthrough I used these:
STR 5
PER 2
END 5
CHA 1
INT 9
AGI 9
LUC 9

Since I start with such crappy speech and good combat skills, I'm just out exploring the wastes killing raiders and exploring until I get my speech up so that when I do start doing quests for people I can smooth talk them into giving me better rewards. I think I'm around level 6 now and have started Moira's quests since she doesn't seem to have any speech options for better rewards. I may have to put some points into boosting CHA since I didn't think that it was being used as a multiplier during speech checks, but as TylerG has discovered, it is:

I used the console to play with some stats here is what i found out. Charisma is a big factor in [speech] rolls. A 28% chance with 1 cha turned into 100% with 10. In vats perception only affects energy weapons accuracy. Likewise agility only affects small arms. Both don't seem to do that much at least at lower levels.

Trey

11-03-2008, 02:26 PM

Also, remember that there are bobbleheads and books for every skill so if you max out a skill early you may be regretting those points later.

Desslock

11-03-2008, 03:00 PM

Also, remember that there are bobbleheads and books for every skill so if you max out a skill early you may be regretting those points later.

But unless you've played the game already, or are cheating with a strategy guide, most people are only going to find a couple of bobbleheads in their first playthrough.

One perk that's actually more useful than I thought (I didn't take it) would be the double-skill from books, since there are so many. That perk will easily get even casual explorers an extra 20-30 skill points.

Mordrak

11-03-2008, 04:07 PM

Mink Staccato

11-03-2008, 04:19 PM

The one perk I really liked was the Mysterious Stranger. You couldn't count on it, but it was happened enough to be worthwhile. It should be that much more useful on higher difficulty settings if he still finishes off the target.

I would almost say this is a 'must have'. That man has saved my ass more than once or twice. And when he comes in, at exactly those perfect 'oh-crap-I'm-done-for' times, it's immediately turns into one of those 'Fuck YEAH!' moments.

http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=28605&highlight=fuck+yeah

-Mink-

RepoMan

11-03-2008, 08:14 PM

Ghad, you fuckers are going to make me reload my pre-Vault-exit save and tag Repair instead of Speech.

Morberis

11-03-2008, 08:22 PM

Jasper

11-03-2008, 08:26 PM

After playing for a bit, I've come to think Intelligence is by far the best attribute. The other stats are nice, but don't have as much impact, and are mostly only important as prerequisites for specific perks. Plus, with Int it hardly matters which skills you tagged.

The perks are also pretty uneven, with the Educated and "Book Learner" perks being very good, and the various +5 & +5 skill perks pretty much worthless. Unless perhaps they have some sort of unexpected side effect?

Desslock

11-03-2008, 08:59 PM

How viable is it to go the all explosives route? I don't want to but I think I'm going to have to pick up small guns because I doubt I'll find/make enough explosives to sustain it on a hard difficulty.

I don't think there's anywhere close to enough - it might be fun to try on a subsequent playthrough, but not on your first try.

Desslock

11-03-2008, 09:02 PM

The one perk I really liked was the Mysterious Stranger. You couldn't count on it, but it happened enough to be worthwhile. It should be that much more useful on higher difficulty settings if he still finishes off the target.

Ooo, I have to try him then - I actually picked Mysterious Stranger my very first playthrough of the original Fallout, only to later realize how terrible a choice that was (you also really couldn't afford to waste a perk in those games, while in F3 you have some latitude). I only didn't take him in F3 because of that memory.

...so instead I wasted perks improving my charisma so that I could take 2 levels of animal lover, since I thought I needed that to get Dogmeat, lol

Jasper

11-03-2008, 09:21 PM

If you make a pick that you end up thinking sucks, why not just go into the console and switch it out? I've yet to try it, but that seems much better than starting over.

Mordrak

11-03-2008, 09:22 PM

Ooo, I have to try him then - I actually picked Mysterious Stranger my very first playthrough of the original Fallout, only to later realize how terrible a choice that was (you also really couldn't afford to waste a perk in those games, while in F3 you have some latitude). I only didn't take him in F3 because of that memory.

He basically shows up during the VATS cinema after you take your final shot. I think you can game it to increase your chances by only doing one shot per instance of VATS, until you run out of action points. That way, you get more chances dependent on your action points instead of just one.

...so instead I wasted perks improving my charisma so that I could take 2 levels of animal lover, since I thought I needed that to get Dogmeat, lol

I was unsure of that myself, but I figured if I find him and can't, I'll get him the next time I play.

Dave Markell

11-03-2008, 10:20 PM

But unless you've played the game already, or are cheating with a strategy guide, most people are only going to find a couple of bobbleheads in their first playthrough.

I'm on my first playthrough, no strat guide, and I've found 6 so far. However, I'm also an OCD completist who has to explore every unknown map location my radar reveals to me :-).

idrisz

11-03-2008, 10:22 PM

yeah mysterious strange is pretty damn awesome in F3, he shows up and kills the target for you.

It's basically like chance to proc instant death on target.

Desslock

11-04-2008, 07:27 AM

I'm on my first playthrough, no strat guide, and I've found 6 so far. However, I'm also an OCD completist who has to explore every unknown map location my radar reveals to me :-).

That's very good - I'm extremely thorough as well, although I had to turn away at some point to finish the main quest for the review, and I think I only found 5 my first playthrough.

ElGuapo

11-04-2008, 07:53 AM

So . . . it's freaking hard to decide what to specialize in, as everything is fun. Small arms is fun, but so is melee. Then I tried out an energy weapon for fun and damn, disintegrating raiders is hot shit.

Explosives seem underpowered to me, then again my explosives skill sucks. Frag mines only do 65 or so damage whereas one bullet from an assault rifle does 26.

By the way, when you use targeting in VATS, does it eat up ammo? The assault rifles seems to do a three round burst, which eats up my ammo.

Skipper

11-04-2008, 08:07 AM

Wait till you use a pulse grenade ElG. Those are definitely worth carrying for bot fights.

And no, I think the consensus is that VATS will save ammo over time, especially so if you close the distance before using it.

Sam Jones

11-04-2008, 08:13 AM

Wait till you use a pulse grenade ElG. Those are definitely worth carrying for bot fights.

I found a mad, military-configured Mr Handy while exploring, and he immediately attacked me. My assault rifle barely touched him, while he had a flamer AND a plasma gun. I was about to die, when I remembered the pulse grenades, lobbed one at him and enjoyed the fireworks as he went down in one. The graphical effect for the pulse grenades is very pretty too.

hong

11-04-2008, 08:16 AM

hong

11-04-2008, 08:21 AM

Ben Sones

11-04-2008, 08:26 AM

I found a mad, military-configured Mr Handy while exploring, and he immediately attacked me.

That's Mr. Gutsy!

Lunch of Kong

11-04-2008, 09:16 AM

soondifferent

11-04-2008, 09:19 AM

I've got mixed feelings about what seems to be the severely nerfed range of rifles (hunting rifle and sniper rifle). It seems you need to be within about 50 m to have a good chance of hitting in VATS, which is just implausibly short.

OTOH I'm already having enough problems being shot at by bad guys I can't see. It would be annoying as hell to be sniped from half a klick away.

The way I see it is that VATs is more of a split-second-reaction-bullet-time thing, so it's not really for sniping. I can see how it sucks if you're relying on VATs to approximate a turn based system.

I wish the little red markers show up sooner though. Even with perception cranked up to 9, by the time I see the red marks I'm already surrounded by raiders.

Jasper

11-04-2008, 06:13 PM

I've got mixed feelings about what seems to be the severely nerfed range of rifles (hunting rifle and sniper rifle). It seems you need to be within about 50 m to have a good chance of hitting in VATS, which is just implausibly short.

OTOH I'm already having enough problems being shot at by bad guys I can't see. It would be annoying as hell to be sniped from half a klick away.
I snipe guys at 100m or even further all the time. The range is way less than real rifles, but still pretty good, the only caveat is you can't use VATS.

One important thing is to make sure your "Agent" draw distance is maxed -- otherwise you simply can't see long range targets.

hong

11-04-2008, 06:23 PM

Jasper

11-04-2008, 06:35 PM

I thought it'd be hard to pick out targets at a distance too, but it's actually pretty easy when they're moving.

Lizard_King

11-04-2008, 07:03 PM

All things considered, I've decided I'm not too fussed about nerfed ranges. It happens in every game after all, not just Fallout. Being able to take down someone from a mile away would kill most maps....

Playing on the 360 here, so no option to fiddle with draw distances AFAIK. Even if there was, the brown-ness of this game makes picking out stuff at a distance nearly impossible anyway.

Maybe it has to do with the colors on your tv, or the brightness setting. I routinely shoot out of the "red" range with my hunting rifle, laser rifle, and any of the scoped weapons if I'm having trouble deciding who's first (with the sniper rifle I have to aim about shoulder height, the recoil tends to give me headshots anyway). As Jasper says, movement is key. Fix on a landmark that their patrol path goes through, and count. And, naturally, the left trigger and crouch combine to make your free fire a lot more accurate.

Also, even when my stealth sucked it was my back up to perception. That big red "CAUTION" on the top of my screen was a great "turn around he's right behind you" indicator. Now, many levels later and with silent running, the nighttime is a party.

FlamingSheep

11-13-2008, 02:01 AM

Do you guys know if I need a natural 6 Perception to get the Better Crits perk, or if I can pop a mentats before levelling up?

CommunistWalrus

11-13-2008, 06:26 AM

Do you guys know if I need a natural 6 Perception to get the Better Crits perk, or if I can pop a mentats before levelling up?

Perk requirements go by your actual stats, not your stats + temporary bonuses you have from items, clothes or drugs.

Jinsai

11-13-2008, 02:51 PM

My first play-through was as an Energy Weapon-slinging smartypants. The most disappointing thing is there isn't really any variation in energy weapons - you'll get a pistol and a rifle fairly early on. And that's pretty much it. The good news is they have larger clip sizes than the small arms. But the damage is just not great until you max out some stats.

I think the trick in this game is to build your character first, and THEN pick the weapons to use based on the build, not the other way around. One thing I will give Fallout 3 is taking Small Guns is no longer mandatory (though from what I can tell, the gun that deals the most damage is a unique small gun).

Swift Learner and Here and Now are both silly. I'm currently playing "Very Hard", have hit level 6, and have visited *5* map locations.

Repair seems like the most important skill, but Barter is a good substitute - if you can't fix your own gear, a massive Barter skill would mean that vendors could do it for you. Unlike you, they don't need another item of the same type. Unfortunately, their skill is capped (at varying levels).

Unless you're a melee character, strength is relatively unimportant, save for some perk requirements. None of the guns have STR requirements (unlike Fallout 1+2, where STR 4 meant shooting darts!). Each point of STR seems to add about 10 lbs of carry weight. But given fast travel, it's not that big a deal. Strong Back is the way to go for loot-totage.

I found "Robotics Expert" to be quite valuable. Your mileage may vary.

Ben Sones

11-13-2008, 03:46 PM

My first play-through was as an Energy Weapon-slinging smartypants. The most disappointing thing is there isn't really any variation in energy weapons - you'll get a pistol and a rifle fairly early on. And that's pretty much it.

Er... Plasma Rifle? Plasma Pistol? Mesmetron? Gatling Laser? There are fewer types of Energy Weapons than Small Arms weapons, but there's definitely more than just the Laser Pistol and Laser Rifle.

hong

11-13-2008, 05:36 PM

I finally found a bunch of plasma rifles in Raven Rock. And goddamn, does that thing rock.

Equis

11-13-2008, 08:02 PM

Gatling Laser?

Gatling laser is under big guns.

Small Guns influences 14 weapons, not including their unique variants.
Energy weapons influences 5 weapons, not including their unique variants.
Big Guns influences 6 weapons, not including their unique variants.

Small guns definitely has the most in terms of usability, but Bethesda did a nice job balancing the different types of weapons with their usefulness. I like that the laser rifle does slightly less damage than small arms rifles but fires so much faster.

Also, the laser pistol unique works like a shotgun, so I guess there's that.

Ben Sones

11-13-2008, 09:23 PM

The laser rifle and pistol also have larger clip sizes than their small arms counterparts, which is definitely nice.

Brian Rucker

11-14-2008, 08:20 AM

Okay, my first playthrough was with a pure small-arms/explosives/sneak/repair commando type and I made pretty much a bee-line through the plot, with a little exploring on the side - but since she couldn't hack terminals or unlock anything I kinda left most of it alone.

This time I'm going full bore Wasteland explorer and borrowed some tips from this thread. His initial build is STR: 4, AGI: 5, PER: 5, END: 5, INT: 8, LUCK: 8. Tagged Skills are Lockpicking, Science and Speech. I'm playing at Hard. So far it is a bit more challenging, as you'd expect, than playing at Easy with a pure combat character but I'm getting by. Still, even at low levels, Supermutant Brutes are just a huge waste of ammo and possible death for me, even just one, and robots seem all but untouchable with conventional small arms at lower ranked skills while dishing out serious pain.

Suddenly avoiding certain things is a logical strategy and I'm pining for pulse grenades that were a waste of space before. Ammo and health management is an issue. Having skill in a variety of different weapons makes more sense given different weapons have a demonstrably different effect on various creatures. One size does not fit all anymore when my damage is so reduced and theirs amplified.

Still, it's not totally frustrating but it does require me to pay more attention which is a huge plus. Picked up Dogmeat for the first time. Frankly, his item seeking skills ain't all that impressive but they're kind of fun. "Go fetch boy." Follow him to see if he finds a good cache of treasure. He also, by far, has the best and least annoying dialogue of any NPC companion I've run with yet. If Charon said, "I don't like the looks of this place" one more time in my own foyer I was about to blow his head off. And he was my favorite.

Dogmeat is a little crunchy though. He can't wear armor or use guns, obviously, yet he does jump right into trouble. I think he'd be better for a pure combat character, in a Hard or Very Hard game, as a sidekick in relatively safe places to search out missed goodies and compensate for a lack of perks or skills that help you find/manage provisions. "Stay here boy" would be his usual instruction until a ruin was cleared.

I figure after my, mostly neutral, explorer susses out most of the map I'll do a final and third runthrough as an evil bastard.

Yeah, yeah, I complain about the ending ruining my taste for Fallout 3 but I can't stop playing. Those songs from GNR stick in my head all day long. We really need new tunes in some DLC!

Brendan

11-14-2008, 08:59 AM

I'm playing on PC and I find myself playing Fallout 3 more as an FPS than an RPG. I am playing an energy weapons guy and the only way I could clear out Jefferson Memorial was with a minigun in real time. I have a str of 5 and a heavy weapons skill of 28 or something. It's just not right.

I also use real time aimed shots to the face of Super Mutants with my laser rifle at range because that is more effective than VATS and my energy weapons skill is 70 something...

RepoMan

11-14-2008, 10:08 AM

I dunno, I'm level seven right now (playing a normal difficulty game, so that's probably why), but I just ran into my first super mutants last night and they were nowhere near as bad as I'd feared. Headshot headshot headshot, and now they're blind and firing all over the damn map without hitting me. Yeah, you have to run up pretty close to them to get 80%+ headshot chance in VATS, but once you do, it's game over for them even with a measly hunting rifle.

Of course all this would be different on uber difficulty like you l33tsters are playing, probably.

But anyway, I now know my character's new nickname: The Headshot Fool. Plus, getting right up close and personal with a combat shotty can often pulp even super mutant heads in just a couple of blasts. It's all about the criticals, especially with energy weapons.

Current build at level 7 is something like ST 3, PE 8 (9 with cool hat), EN 5, CH 6, IN 9, AG 6, LK 7. Perks so far: Daddy's Boy x1, Intense Training x4 (PE, IN, LK, LK), Comprehension (thanks to this thread!), Educated. I'm in the 40-50 skill point range for Small Arms, Energy Weapons, Repair, Speech, Science, and Medicine.

I'm pretty sure my upcoming perks are going to be Commando, Impartial Mediation (I like playing neutral), Finesse, Mysterious Stranger, Sniper, Silent Running, Cyborg, Action Boy, Better Criticals, Demo Expert x2, Intense Training (LK -> 8), and Grim Reaper's Sprint. By the end of the game I want to be a blizzard of hot laser death. Luck 8 + Commando + Finesse + Sniper + Better Criticals + Action Boy + Grim Reaper's Sprint + Energy Weapons 100 = FUCK YEAH.

So... addicted.....

Edit: And fuck Strong Back. I have like no ability to carry anything of size, so I have to be choosy in my looting. Cigarettes are my best friend. And Pre-War Money. Anything with a caps-to-pounds ratio of 10 or higher. By avoiding Strong Back and those extra two points of ST, I'm picking up all these other perks that let me KILL SHIT QUICKER, which is all I really care about -- I'm a compulsive XP whore, and I'm going to SCOUR THE MAP CLEAN.

RepoMan

11-14-2008, 12:13 PM

Meanwhile, I'm now wondering what Dungsroman's character looks like. Or if he has a Scary OCD Spreadsheet for FO3. What's your build, Bill?

Staff Sergeant

11-14-2008, 12:26 PM

Guess I'll post my build:

STR 4
PER 10
END 4
CHA 1
INT 9
AGI 10
LCK 5

Lvl 7

Perks: Intense Training x 2 (PER, AGI), Demo Expert, Comprehension, Ant Sight (+1 PER), Educated, Fortune Finder

Relevant Skills:
Small Weapons: 100
Repair: 54
Explosives: 68
Sneak: 40
Lockpicking, Science, Medicine: 25

Supermutants are currently a joke, I can either snipe the Hvy Weapons out of their hands, shoot them in the head, throw grenades then follow up with a finishing shot, or retreat to cover and cover my retreat with mines.

RepoMan

11-14-2008, 12:40 PM

rhinohelix

11-14-2008, 12:49 PM

EFG, it looks like you didn't leave any room for bobbleheads to boost your stats. That's why I'm not quite maxing my key statistics; I hear about these "bobblehead" things. (Hell, there's a perception-boosting hat, fer pete's sake.) So seems to me that the best thing is to bring your peak stats to 9 or even 8, and then get items to boost from there. (Buff items can't boost a stat over 10, correct?)

Correct. Also, Intensive Training will help make up those stat differences for levels where the available perks aren't that great. With a high Intel, I also never had any trouble getting any skill to where I wanted it to be, so the skill point Perks weren't a good fit for me. That and bobbleheads made up the difference. There are a large number of skill point bobbleheads as well, worth 10 points a pop.

Jinsai

11-14-2008, 01:23 PM

I didn't find the Plasma Rifle or Pistol until Raven Rock, which for me was during the last 5% of the game. I found the Laser Pistol at the Super-Duper Mart, in the first hour.

For me, the Laser Rifle was 90% of the game. I'm just sayin'.

The Plasma Rifle doesn't do that much more damage and has such a small clip size (and seems to wear out faster) that one could reasonably argue it's not much better than the Laser Rifle.

Big Guns gives you a range of choices. Small Guns does too. For most people, Energy Weapons gives you a pistol and a rifle, which are basically the same thing (you can trade more weak shots - pistol - against fewer strong shots with range - rifle).

I'll be armchair designer for a moment. Would have been nicer if there were modes for the guns - continuous beam, spread, burst, etc. That would have made lugging the same gun around for most of the game a bit more enjoyable.

Then again, I never got tired of turning people to ash or goo.

I also wouldn't characterize the Mesmetron as a weapon per se (even if it uses the EW stat). And I only found it on one person, in one location. Is it unique?

RepoMan

11-14-2008, 01:40 PM

I'm gonna keep Small Arms somewhere in the 60 range, so I can use all the small guns and ammo I find against the majority of low- to mid-range enemies, and save my PEW PEW YOU'RE AN IONIZED GAS CLOUD HA HA for the times when I absolutely, positively have to vaporize someone RIGHT NOW.

Is there a way to increase the difficulty level mid-game? Because I'm starting to think that I'm not getting nearly enough combat fun. I have so much ammo and so many guns I hardly know what to do with them all. I know, I know, world's tiniest violin.

Staff Sergeant

11-14-2008, 02:01 PM

EFG, it looks like you didn't leave any room for bobbleheads to boost your stats. That's why I'm not quite maxing my key statistics; I hear about these "bobblehead" things. (Hell, there's a perception-boosting hat, fer pete's sake.) So seems to me that the best thing is to bring your peak stats to 9 or even 8, and then get items to boost from there. (Buff items can't boost a stat over 10, correct?)

I haven't found a single bobblehead yet, so it's not a big deal. Normally you'd be right but I just borrowed it from a friend to screw around with until I can buy it for myself for computer, so I'll be starting afresh in a week anyways.

However, I did have every attribute start at 9 or 8 in the beginning because I heard of them, but then figured I might as well pump my attributes up anyways because I just want to be really good at killing things for a little bit while I explored (Ant Sight came out of nowhere and bumped my PER up to 10, wasn't planned). I also planned using Power Armor if I ever get trained for it (got a fully repaired suit sitting in my house...) so my AGI will remain at 9 even with it equipped (10 - 2 + 1).

Brendan

11-14-2008, 11:26 PM

Repoman, the difficulty can be changed at any point in the game. It's in the gameplay settings.

hong

11-14-2008, 11:45 PM

Jakub

11-15-2008, 12:18 AM

You can get a plasma rifle really early if you want.

SPOILER MAFUKKAS
Do the android quest. In fact, if you do the android quest, you can get the special plasma rifle from the android, and then the aim upgrade from the guy hunting the android, and then still kill the guy hunting the android for a net karma bonus.

Staff Sergeant

11-15-2008, 12:30 AM

Finally got my Power Armor training.

Mild spoilers:

I chose the Enclave (being mostly a fallout virgin I was starting to buy into what everyone was saying about how the Enclave doesn't really exist and the radio station was just some ancient recording on a loop, then HOLY SHIT ROBOTS ARE ATTACKING ME!) Power Armor, it reduces my AGI least and looks more like a scary robot, plus RAD resistance.

barstein

11-15-2008, 12:47 AM

I would love to see an expansion that allows more elaborate character builds, using robotics (or robot masters) and mutants as alternative bases.

Staff Sergeant

11-15-2008, 11:30 AM

I would love to see an expansion that allows more elaborate character builds, using robotics (or robot masters) and mutants as alternative bases.

Being a ghoul would make the game 1 million times easier, I already have 1 CHA I don't give a shit if people like me.

hong

11-15-2008, 09:57 PM

You can get a plasma rifle really early if you want.

Yeah, but unless you find a lot more of them, or are willing to shell out time and caps to get the NPCs to repair it for you, it'll be at 10% effectiveness pretty soon.

Have I mentioned the lameness of the repair mechanic lately?

Staff Sergeant

11-16-2008, 01:26 AM

Have I mentioned the lameness of the repair mechanic lately?

WHY CAN'T I LEAN!!!????!!?!?!

Oh, sorry, wrong thread.

Chris Nahr

11-16-2008, 02:22 AM

The repair mechanic is excellent, it's just how you'd imagine a Mad Max style scavenger would live in a post-nuclear wasteland. I'm usually annoyed by breaking guns but not in Fallout 3.

hong

11-16-2008, 02:26 AM

Last time I checked, Mad Max didn't haul around half a dozen guns on his back just so he could keep his shotgun in good working order.

Chris Nahr

11-16-2008, 02:45 AM

But you'd imagine that's what he had to do, dummy! Also, he had a car so he didn't need to carry them on his back.

Igor Muravyev

11-16-2008, 03:05 AM

Bah, who needs cars when there's plenty of omnibirds to go around?

hong

11-16-2008, 03:09 AM

But you'd imagine that's what he had to do, dummy!

Exactly. I would much rather imagine that's what I have to do in FO3 as well. :)

DrCrypt

11-16-2008, 03:28 AM

Last time I checked, Mad Max didn't haul around half a dozen guns on his back just so he could keep his shotgun in good working order.

Sure he did. In Thunderdome, when he walked through the front doors, they confiscated no less than a dozen separate weapons from Max. Granted, only one of those was a gun... because ammo was impossible to find. Doesn't he only have a handful of shells?

hong

11-16-2008, 03:44 AM

Sure he did. In Thunderdome, when he walked through the front doors, they confiscated no less than a dozen separate weapons from Max. Granted, only one of those was a gun... because ammo was impossible to find. Doesn't he only have a handful of shells?
I also carry (half) a dozen separate weapons. I have, or had at various points, a 10mm SMG, a combat shotgun, an assault rifle, a Chinese assault rifle, a .44 scoped magnum, a hunting rifle, and a sniper rifle.

I ALSO had multiple copies of some of these, because of the stupid repair mechanic.

These are distinct.

DrCrypt

11-16-2008, 03:56 AM

hong

11-16-2008, 04:13 AM

Well, you're playing wrong:

No, I am doing exactly what it is the game allows me to do. Is Bethesda going to knock on my door and tell me to stop doing it?

keeping spares for repairs is what housing is for.

And I have spares at home too. Besides, what kind of hardened adventurer in the wastes retires to his comfortable little house on the prairie at the end of every long working day?

Otherwise, you either repair with stuff you find on the field,

Not everyone carries the weapon that I'm using. You might want to remember the weapon that started this subthread.

or you carry multiple weapons in case one breaks, or preferably both.

No, I carry multiple weapons in case I run into different situations. Hunting rifle for sniping at a distance, shotgun for close-in work, plasma rifle for one-shot kills, that sort of thing.

The idea that you would wander around with six hunting rifles at all time just in case yours breaks is ridiculous.

Indeed it is.

bloo

11-16-2008, 04:34 AM

Well, you're playing wrong: keeping spares for repairs is what housing is for. Otherwise, you either repair with stuff you find on the field, or you carry multiple weapons in case one breaks, or preferably both. The idea that you would wander around with six hunting rifles at all time just in case yours breaks is ridiculous.

Some of the mechanics like this are annoying me. For instance, the 101 Utility Jumpsuit. It's ridiculous that I have to put that on to get the lockpick and repair benefits, especially for repair because it's only during paused PIP boy time: pip up -> change clothes -> repair item -> change clothes -> pip down. Yet items like the Food Sanitizer work by just having it in your inventory, which if fine, the cost to have it is the weight.

DrCrypt

11-16-2008, 05:09 AM

hong, the way you dissected my reply and meticulously blockquoted, then responded to each and every point individually just shows your problem: you're anal retentive. In truth, there's not a lot of reason in Fallout 3 to worry about your weapons not being 100 percent effective at all time: the game takes that into account. But instead of just accepting that weapons degrade and break -- and quite forgivingly, mind you -- you spend all your time fighting the mechanic, then declare it broken.

As for plasma rifles, they are an end-game weapon. You can get one earlier, but it is silly to think you should be able to cakewalk through the rest of the game with it at 100 percent efficiency without sacrifice: it is a reward for explorative players, not a game-breaking magic enemy vaporization wand.

hong

11-16-2008, 05:39 AM

hong, the way you dissected my reply and meticulously blockquoted, then responded to each and every point individually just shows your problem: you're anal retentive.

You misspelled anal-retentive.

And RPGs are designed for anal-retentive, obsessive-compulsive people. There's no other reason for the 1 million crates and all that hyperbole about "creating worlds". They are the distilled essence of geekery.

In truth, there's not a lot of reason in Fallout 3 to worry about your weapons not being 100 percent effective at all time: the game takes that into account. But instead of just accepting that weapons degrade and break -- and quite forgivingly, mind you -- you spend all your time fighting the mechanic, then declare it broken.

See, unlike the other anal-retentive people around here, I play RPGs for three things:
- Violence
- Angst
- Chewing scenery

Having weapons, the prime means of perpetrating violence, degrade and break goes directly against the first of these objectives.

Now it is certainly true that by an act of will I can ignore those aspects of the design that are annoying. I got the perks that improve loot drops, for instance, so I wouldn't have to worry about money, all the stuff I pick up being spares to repair gear. But the fact still remains that the design itself is still something to be worked around.

Heck, I'd even be willing to go halfway and say that repairing gear is fine, if weapons didn't break so fast and/or having spares wasn't such a necessity. Eg, you might be able to salvage the required parts from any crap you have, or at least a wide range of weapons, rather than that specific weapon type only. Or instead of only one Repair use per spare, you might be able to get multiple uses out of it, with higher Repair skill increasing the number of uses before it's depleted. Or something else along those lines.

As for plasma rifles, they are an end-game weapon. You can get one earlier, but it is silly to think you should be able to cakewalk through the rest of the game with it at 100 percent efficiency without sacrifice: it is a reward for explorative players, not a game-breaking magic enemy vaporization wand.

You know, I wasn't even complaining that much about the plasma rifle not being available until later on. I spent almost the entire game using Chinese assault rifles and the Xuanlong rifle, which worked well enough. It was simply an observation that getting the plasma rifle early on isn't everything it's cracked up to be.

Brendan

11-16-2008, 06:51 AM

Hong, I for one agree with you. The repair skill needs some tuning.

Maybe tone down weapon degradation and have the ability to break weapons down into their appropriate spare parts which you can carry around. Energy weapon spare parts fix energy weapons, Small guns, small guns, etc.

While they are at it they need to fix the automap. I got stuck in vault 106 and just couldn't find my way out I ended up running around for an hour before I gave up and reloaded a save game before I entered it.

Lizard_King

11-16-2008, 07:23 AM

The repair mechanic is excellent, it's just how you'd imagine a Mad Max style scavenger would live in a post-nuclear wasteland. I'm usually annoyed by breaking guns but not in Fallout 3.

Yeah, I agree. I think if anything it's overpowered, because not tagging/focusing on repair would make a subsequent character feel weak but only in comparison. That is, it's not that it breaks the game without it, but I couldn't neglect it knowing what I do now.

I was annoyed at first, but once I discovered fast travel and the fact that any container can be used as your personal dumpster, it's really no big deal to have a nice pile of combat shotguns or whatever else comes along the way. I especially liked how as a good character a certain mercenary group elected to provide me with on site delivery of combat armor spare parts at regular intervals. Sure, I had to kill them every time, but thanks!

also

While they are at it they need to fix the automap. I got stuck in vault 106 and just couldn't find my way out I ended up running around for an hour before I gave up and reloaded a save game before I entered it.
I agree that there are map functions that could use some work, and it's a place where the greenscreen hurts them a bit. I think being able to sort through "floors", at least inside buildings, or marking stairwells that aren't entry points to new areas would have helped. And the waypoint/quest marker thing needs to be a lot more adaptable.

But how could you possibly get lost in vault 106? I could see getting from A to B in DC or Arlington being a little frustrating but come on! I recommend looking at the local map whenever you first enter an area and using it again when you change floors or are about to move one. Eventually, you'll get used to the way levels are organized and you won't rely on it so much.

hong

11-16-2008, 07:32 AM

Yeah, I agree. I think if anything it's overpowered, because not tagging/focusing on repair would make a subsequent character feel weak but only in comparison. That is, it's not that it breaks the game without it, but I couldn't neglect it knowing what I do now.

Er, you do know I'm talking about repair, not Repair, right?

I was annoyed at first, but once I discovered fast travel and the fact that any container can be used as your personal dumpster, it's really no big deal to have a nice pile of combat shotguns or whatever else comes along the way. I especially liked how as a good character a certain mercenary group elected to provide me with on site delivery of combat armor spare parts at regular intervals. Sure, I had to kill them every time, but thanks!

Someone else used the big word "mimesis" elsewhere so I think it's fair game to reuse it now. For me, having big stashes of spare parts everywhere, that you periodically teleport to and back again, breaks mimesis more than having unbreakable weapons. The latter can easily be handwaved via the same process that handles not needing to eat, sleep, excrete, etc. Bringing repairing into the game makes the necessary workarounds much more explicit.

Marcus

11-16-2008, 07:36 AM

What is the best mod that would increase the level cap from 20 - 30? I can't seem to find one.

Joel

11-16-2008, 07:37 AM

You misspelled anal-retentive.There is only a hyphen if it's used as an adjective. And if you're wanted to isolate it as a phrase, "anal retentive" should be in quotes.

If you're going to be uptight about things, you should at least be correct.

hong

11-16-2008, 07:38 AM

But how could you possibly get lost in vault 106?

Very easily? I mean, the local map doesn't even show you when you're up against a solid wall sometimes. It gets overlapping corridors on different levels hopelessly confused.

hong

11-16-2008, 07:41 AM

There is only a hyphen if it's used as an adjective.

"You're anal-retentive" --> adjective
"You're an anal-retentive" --> noun

And if you wanted to isolate it as a phrase, "anal retentive" should be in quotes.

FIFM

Sam Jones

11-16-2008, 07:51 AM

What is the best mod that would increase the level cap from 20 - 30? I can't seem to find one.

None of them. They all currently break the game to some degree. Because there are no Good/Neutral/Bad karma titles coded in past 20, when you ding 21, if you're good, your Karma title resets to that for level 1, and if you're evil, the game CTDs. We'll need the construction kit before this can be fixed, apparently.

I'm using a mod that slows levelling in the meantime.

Ben Sones

11-16-2008, 08:04 AM

But instead of just accepting that weapons degrade and break -- and quite forgivingly, mind you -- you spend all your time fighting the mechanic, then declare it broken.

John, he thinks that just about every mechanic in the game is broken, and he will continue to post the same lengthy complaints over and over and over again as long as you continue to respond (or, presumably, until you cave and concede that he is objectively right and that no matter how much you might enjoy Fallout 3, the game actually sucks). He did this in the Tenpenny Tower thread, and I thought the appropriate response was to just shut up and let him have the last word, but apparently that just made him move on to new threads.

At the risk of feeding the troll, I'll say that I have never felt the need to carry multiple spares for repair purposes, and I've done just fine. I sometimes keep one spare in my house (but sometimes not), and less frequently I carry a spare with me, but usually I just carry the carry the weapon that I use, and repair it whenever I find another one. This has served me perfectly fine so far (level 18), and I can't imagine why you would load yourself down with six (?!?) spares for any weapon unless you have a clinical case of obsessive-compulsive disorder. Which, giving hong's utter inability to accept that sometimes not everyone agrees about something and that's okay, is a distinct possibility.

Chuck

11-16-2008, 08:09 AM

"You're anal-retentive" --> adjective
"You're an anal-retentive" --> noun

FIFM

Jeez, I thought it was Zylon's role to be the grammer prick around here......

hong

11-16-2008, 08:13 AM

You fail at rusting.

John, he thinks that just about every mechanic in the game is broken,

Nonsense. I have, for example, said elsewhere that VATS is brilliant (http://forum.rpg.net/showpost.php?p=9611719&postcount=187).

and he will continue to post the same lengthy complaints over and over and over again as long as you continue to respond (or, presumably, until you cave and concede that he is objectively right and that no matter how much you might enjoy Fallout 3, the game actually sucks). He did this in the Tenpenny Tower thread, and I thought the appropriate response was to just shut up and let him have the last word, but apparently that just made him move on to new threads.

There is always somebody willing to defend something, no matter how inane. There is even a name for this phenomenon.

At the risk of feeding the troll, I'll say that I have never felt the need to carry multiple spares for repair purposes, and I've done just fine. I sometimes keep one spare in my house (but sometimes not), and less frequently I carry a spare with me, but usually I just carry the carry the weapon that I use, and repair it whenever I find another one.

See, you wouldn't even miss it if the game didn't require repairing.

This has served me perfectly fine so far (level 18), and I can't imagine why you would load yourself down with six (?!?) spares for any weapon unless you have a clinical case of obsessive-compulsive disorder.

It is very easy.

1 combat shotgun + 2 spares
1 assault rifle + 2 spares
1 hunting rifle + 2 spares
= 6 spares

That's not counting the sniper rifle which I ended up never using after a while, because bad guys who carry it are apparently as rare as hen's teeth.

Which, giving hong's utter inability to accept that sometimes not everyone agrees about something and that's okay, is a distinct possibility.

Did I ever say you can't disagree?

Ben Sones

11-16-2008, 08:23 AM

You fail at rusting.

You know what? Fuck you. I like the game--why should I have to stop following the threads? And honestly, I don't care if people want to post critical comments in the Fallout threads, but you don't just post, you flood the thread with posts until nobody is able to talk about anything but you. nearly half the posts on this page are yours. You apparently hate the game, and yet you post in multiple threads about it and the cumulative wordcount from your rants is probably in the 20-30,000 word range at this point. So who is really the one with the problem, here?

Did I ever say you can't disagree?

If we all agree to disagree about this, will you let it go?

hong

11-16-2008, 08:24 AM

You know what? Fuck you. I like the game--why should I have to stop following the threads? And honestly, I don't care if people want to post critical comments in the Fallout threads, but you don't just post, you flood the thread with posts until nobody is able to talk about anything but you. nearly half the posts on this page are yours. You apparently hate the game, and yet you post in multiple threads about it and the cumulative wordcount from your rants is probably in the 20-30,000 word range at this point. So who is really the one with the problem, here?

Let it go, man. Let it go.

If we all agree to disagree about this, will you let it go?

I don't know. Are you going to let it go?

Ben Sones

11-16-2008, 08:26 AM

I'd like to!

hong

11-16-2008, 08:28 AM

Join me, and we can rule this board... as FATHER and SON!

Equis

11-16-2008, 08:29 AM

While they are at it they need to fix the automap. I got stuck in vault 106 and just couldn't find my way out I ended up running around for an hour before I gave up and reloaded a save game before I entered it.

It's funny, cos as much as I agree that the automap and local map needs fixing; I think the point of vault 106 was that someone like you would run around it and get lost. It was designed as a labyrinthine madhouse. Of course, how that translate to satisfying gameplay gets lost a little, but this is a case in which the level designers fully succeeded in their intent.

Oghier

11-16-2008, 08:40 AM

Many people get hung up on individual design decisions in a game, such as the need for repair. The best way to handle them is to ignore them. Just play. Stop worrying that every weapon could be 10% more effective -- just play. The game is balanced around degraded gear.

If that is not possible, buy the PC version. There are mods or console commands to eliminate the need for repair. If you're really compulsive about particular design elements, you can simply change many of them. I didn't enjoy Oblivion until certain key mods were available, but then it sucked up many, many happy hours.

bloo

11-16-2008, 08:59 AM

The idea that you would wander around with six hunting rifles at all
time just in case yours breaks is ridiculous.

Here's the pic I was looking for earlier:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/drew5337/Obamacolypse.jpg

hong

11-16-2008, 09:14 AM

Bah. I play 3rd person view, and that picture looks nothing like me. Although it is accurate how you don't see the 5,000 rounds of ammo he's carrying IN HIS PANTS.

Which actually brings up another point: what DO you do with all the stuff in the world? Most of what you find isn't worth much, and there isn't that much to buy anyway. So what do you pick up, if not ammo, stimpacks and spare guns? 4 bike gas tanks maybe, to make multiple shishkebabs?

Equisilus

11-16-2008, 09:14 AM

hong

11-16-2008, 09:17 AM

I don't horde items for repairing, nor do I carry around a load of them (I might have one or two spares of anything at a given time).

So, like me, you would have six spares? :)

Bill Dungsroman

11-16-2008, 09:35 AM

There is always somebody willing to defend something, no matter how inane. There is even a name for this phenomenon.

Yes, it's called "the internet."

"You're anal-retentive" --> adjective
"You're an anal-retentive" --> noun

WRONG. As Joel said, the noun form has no hyphen. Look it up. (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/anal-retentive)

And then shut up. If you feel the need to carry around several spare rifles in case yours breaks that's your problem (or benefit!), not the game's. Why? Because plenty of people don't do that and they get along in the game just fine. That's the fundamental difference between a gameplay mechanic that is variable as opposed to a gameplay mechanic that is broken. It's pretty amazing how often gamers fail to discern the difference, primarily because every game they play must conform to their exact, inflexible expectations.

hong

11-16-2008, 09:39 AM

Yes, it's called "the internet."

Yes, and isn't it fun?

WRONG. As Joel said, the noun form has no hyphen. Look it up. (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/anal-retentive)
You probably didn't see the other listings on that page.

And then shut up. If you feel the need to carry around several spare rifles in case yours breaks that's your problem (or benefit!), not the game's. Why? Because plenty of people don't do that and they get along in the game just fine. That's the fundamental difference between a gameplay mechanic that is variable as opposed to a gameplay mechanic that is broken.

Point me to where I said it was broken.

Bill Dungsroman

11-16-2008, 09:47 AM

Yes, and isn't it fun?

I clearly enjoy it.

You probably didn't see the other listings on that page.

Are you retarded? Are you referring to these listings?

Usage: anal retentive, n; anal retention, n; anal-retentiveness, n

Point me to where I said it was broken.

Have I mentioned the lameness of the repair mechanic lately?

There. And here (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lameness) is a dictionary entry for the word "lameness." Check the first two definitions.

hong

11-16-2008, 09:50 AM

I clearly enjoy it.

Indeed.

Are you retarded? Are you referring to these listings?

a·nal-re·ten·tive (ā'nəl-rĭ-těn'tĭv)
adj. Psychology
Indicating personality traits, such as meticulousness, avarice, and obstinacy, originating in habits, attitudes, or values associated with infantile pleasure in retention of feces.

anal-retentive adj.
Indicating personality traits, such as meticulousness, avarice, and obstinacy, originating in habits, attitudes, or values associated with infantile pleasure in retention of feces.

Main Entry: anal–re·ten·tive
Pronunciation: 'An-&l-ri-'ten-tiv
Function: adjective
: characterized by personality traits(as frugality and obstinacy) held to be psychological sequelae of toilet training —compare ANAL 2b

There. And here (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lameness) is dictionary entry for the word "lameness." Check the first two definitions.

Check the last two definitions.

Bill Dungsroman

11-16-2008, 09:53 AM

Indeed.

a·nal-re·ten·tive (ā'nəl-rĭ-těn'tĭv)
adj. Psychology
Indicating personality traits, such as meticulousness, avarice, and obstinacy, originating in habits, attitudes, or values associated with infantile pleasure in retention of feces.

anal-retentive adj.
Indicating personality traits, such as meticulousness, avarice, and obstinacy, originating in habits, attitudes, or values associated with infantile pleasure in retention of feces.

Main Entry: anal–re·ten·tive
Pronunciation: 'An-&l-ri-'ten-tiv
Function: adjective
: characterized by personality traits(as frugality and obstinacy) held to be psychological sequelae of toilet training —compare ANAL 2b

Those are all entries for the adjective form.

Check the last two definitions.

I don't have to. The first two prove my point. Regardless, you're stating the repair mechanic leaves a lot to be desired. Not only are you in the minority on that opinion, your reason (having to lug around a bunch of spares) is an issue people in the opposing camp don't contend with. You're manufacturing your own point of contention.

hong

11-16-2008, 09:54 AM

Those are all entries for the adjective form.

Exactly. Now, ponder on
"You're anal-retentive" --> adjective
"You're an anal-retentive" --> noun
in conjunction with what was originally posted.

I don't have to. The first two prove my point.

And there is, of course, a school of criticism that claims authorial intent is of no consequence to proper analysis of a text. AMIRITE?

Regardless, you're stating the repair mechanic leaves a lot to be desired. Not only are you in the minority on that opinion, your reason (having to lug around a bunch of spares) is an issue people in the opposing camp don't contend with. You're manufacturing your own point of contention.

No, my reason is that to maintain my equipment to a standard that I consider desirable, I have various options, all of which involve more expenditure of brain cells than I consider optimal. Why, those brain cells could have been used for so many other things!

Bill Dungsroman

11-16-2008, 10:02 AM

Exactly. Now, ponder on
"You're anal-retentive" --> adjective
"You're an anal-retentive" --> noun
in conjunction with what was originally posted.

Why? The diagram you wrote there is pretty vague.

And there is, of course, a school of criticism that claims authorial intent is of no consequence to proper analysis of a text. AMIRITE?

Wow, you are a special kind of boring, you are.

No, my reason is that to maintain my equipment to a standard that I consider desirable,

That you consider desirable. Your unnecessarily high standard.

I have various options, all of which involve more expenditure of brain cells than I consider optimal. Why, those brain cells could have been used for so many other things!

I'm sorry you're too stupid to play Fallout 3 :(

DrCrypt

11-16-2008, 10:10 AM

... you're anal retentive...

You misspelled anal-retentive.

As the guy who had the (totally lame) criticism initially aimed at him in the middle of an otherwise impotent and pedantic fisking that simply proved my initial point, I think the thing I find most priceless about the conversation that has resulted is that hong has just spent hundreds of words and several dozen paragraphs conclusively proving that he doesn't know the difference between spelling and punctuation. What a tard.

merryprankster

11-16-2008, 10:19 AM

Only on the internet will you find people willing to champion thier gramatical preferences.

Brendan

11-16-2008, 12:05 PM

Fallout Main quest spoiler up ahead...

I've escorted the scientists out of the tunnels to the citadel but the Brotherhood is hostile and rips me to shreds.

I'm playing a goody two shoes character so it can't be a Karma thing. Any ideas?

Staff Sergeant

11-16-2008, 12:07 PM

It's a bug. If it's on the PC then maybe you can use the console to affect faction disposition but if it's the 360 you are hosed :(

Brendan

11-16-2008, 12:23 PM

Non spoiler.

Yes, I got hopelessly lost in Vault 106. What also threw me was there was an open door superimposed in a solid wall (Completely overlapped except for some bevel geometry.). It was odd.

Unfortunately, while I generally have a decent sense of direction my brain struggles with twisty multi level FPS levels.

RepoMan

11-16-2008, 12:49 PM

RepoMan

11-16-2008, 12:51 PM

Which actually brings up another point: what DO you do with all the stuff in the world? Most of what you find isn't worth much, and there isn't that much to buy anyway. So what do you pick up, if not ammo, stimpacks and spare guns? 4 bike gas tanks maybe, to make multiple shishkebabs?
I pick up stuff to make stuff with, and I pick up anything worth ten or more bottlecaps per pound of weight. Liquor, cigarettes, pre-war money, sensor modules (I think they're like 2 lbs and 30 caps). My strength is three and I'm a weapon hound -- though I'm considering dumping the laser pistol and the magnum... going all rifle, all commando, all the time.

DrCrypt

11-16-2008, 02:19 PM

I never carry spares. If I can repair my lead weapon with +10%, then I use the spare immediately in just that way. Otherwise, I sell it as soon as I can (if it's worth enough to bother lugging around at all). If spares stop turning up and I run low on lead weapon durability, I go to Moira to make with the fixing. Why the fuck would anyone carry two spares for everything all the time? It makes no sense at all.

Basically, the whole barter system is based on the idea that most of the time, you will be trading, not selling.

For example, with Moira, she often doesn't have enough caps to buy what you want to sell her, so you spend 1000 caps in needed repairs... but then trade her 1500 caps worth of chinese assault rifles you've picked up.

My repair skill was absolutely negligible. Through the whole game, I paid for repairs. At the end of the game, I had 5,000 caps I had no idea what to do with. There is no reason to keep "repair spares" on your person at all time: you either upgrade off of stuff you find in the field, or you travel back to town.

Equisilus

11-16-2008, 04:00 PM

So, like me, you would have six spares? :)

Nope. I only have 1 or 2 spares total at any given time, usually because I can't use them yet and have room for 'em. My carrying weight is almost always maxed out or nearly so. I like variety.

Lizard_King

11-16-2008, 04:49 PM

What is it with this game and threads about it? Fuck! Anyway, I have my scum of the wastes character, once again focused on small arms and energy weapons and stealth, but this time stealing everything that isn't nailed down and making the most of the evil quest variations, up to and including doublecrossing the questgiver right after he pays. I didn't even realize that the game had an enslaving mechanic, clumsily gratifying as it is, until this playthrough.

I did try the unarmed thing, and I am imagining that it gets a lot better once you find some brass knuckles or something, but the need for proximity was not in keeping with the sort of gameplay I enjoy usually. Taking comprehension this time and hoarding skill books until then has opened up a lot of room for diversification. It's probably the least glamorous but most overpowered perk for certain kinds of players.

hong

11-16-2008, 05:06 PM

Why? The diagram you wrote there is pretty vague.

I'm sorry you're too stupid to play the internet.

Wow, you are a special kind of boring, you are.

Indeed, I do this better than you.

That you consider desirable.

Your point is...?

Your unnecessarily high standard.

Nothing is ever necessary when it comes to pretending to be elves. Or, in this case, wasteland wanderers. Your point is...?

I'm sorry you're too stupid to play Fallout 3 :(

Insert lolwut graphic here.

hong

11-16-2008, 05:07 PM

As the guy who had the (totally lame) criticism initially aimed at him in the middle of an otherwise impotent and pedantic fisking that simply proved my initial point, I think the thing I find most priceless about the conversation that has resulted is that hong has just spent hundreds of words and several dozen paragraphs conclusively proving that he doesn't know the difference between spelling and punctuation. What a tard.

Terry Austin does this better than you.

RepoMan

11-17-2008, 10:58 AM

Jesus, if only Bill would quit pissing around with The Worst Grammar Troll Evar, maybe he could post his fucking character build like I asked him to two pages ago, and we could have some more fun around here. THERE ARE NO FUCKING DICTIONARIES IN THE WASTELAND, PEOPLE!

Anyway, thanks to this thread I finally got the plasma rifle last night. And I'm only level 9. Man, I'm gonna have some goood times with this motherfucking thing. When your second shot ever turns a Super Mutant into a pile of glowing green goo, you know it's a friggin' winner.

Supper's Ready

11-17-2008, 01:05 PM

Unfortunately, while I generally have a decent sense of direction my brain struggles with twisty multi level FPS levels.
I think (because I have the same problem) that it has to do with us looking through a square (or rectangular) little window into that world. We don't get to use the vastly greater area our eyes normally cover in the real world, and we don't get to use our peripheral vision either. So it's hard to get a sense of the structure of the area we're in as we would instinctively in the real world.

extarbags

11-17-2008, 01:14 PM

I don't horde items for repairing, nor do I carry around a load of them (I might have one or two spares of anything at a given time). I never have trouble keeping my items in working condition and make no special efforts in terms of repair at all, except for having a high skill in it. Every time I find a spare of an item I need repaired, I repair it immediately regardless of how much benefit it gets me. I'm level 17 now.

Yeah, this is the way to do it. No point carrying around redundant stuff at repair kits for your real stuff, but repairing as you're able is a way better deal than paying the chumps back in town to do it for you.

I pick up stuff to make stuff with, and I pick up anything worth ten or more bottlecaps per pound of weight. Liquor, cigarettes, pre-war money, sensor modules (I think they're like 2 lbs and 30 caps). My strength is three and I'm a weapon hound -- though I'm considering dumping the laser pistol and the magnum... going all rifle, all commando, all the time.

You guys aren't weenies enough. I pick up everything, every single thing, and make fast travel runs back to Rivet City to cash it all in for Micro Fusion Cells as soon as I get full. I have maybe 650 stored right now (level 14).

Anyway, yeah, if you have an awesome weapon that you can reliably keep repaired, there's no real reason to keep a backup. I use my (AR-31's) plasma rifle almost exclusively, only using the plasma pistol for junk like molerats and radroaches so my rifle doesn't degrade as fast.

Marged

11-17-2008, 01:19 PM

Here's the pic I was looking for earlier:
[Guy with guns in a wheelbarrow]

Wow, that picture pretty much perfectly sums up how I play, even down to the diet cokes. However, I accept that this is simply my OCD coming out in full force, not a flaw in the game design.

Equisilus

11-23-2008, 05:23 AM

Speaking of character builds (*some spoilers*): I've hit the level cap just after the Citadel. I seem to have a tonne of stuff left to do in the main quest let alone exploring (there's a significant chunk of the map still unexplored), and now I've nothing to look forward to in terms of character building except for finding books and bobbleheads. I don't actively seek out those stat/skill boosters, though, so now I'm left feeling I should just railroad my way through the main quest and finish up the game. I deliberately didn't choose Explorer on my 20th level because I don't want to see all the locations (that would spoil any future play).

Anyone else feel that the game seems to have cut off its head at that point? You can't have a game where you can explore so openly yet lose one of the most important aspects of an RPG (character advancement) when there's still so much to do. It dropped the value of the game by a notch almost immediately. I've no problem with level caps, in general, it's only that it came so soon. I'm glad I never took Here and Now (what a waste that would have been)!

Calistas

11-23-2008, 05:46 AM

I don't mind the hording, It suits my OCD style of gaming whereby I must collect EVERYTHING, just in case!

At level 13, for weapons I carry:
- 10mm sub. Great for short/ med range. Rep'd it's damage up.
- Chinese AR. Great all the time at max repair.
- Combat shotty. Great in close but an AP sucker. My biggest damage weapon (50 or so)
- Scoped magnum. Don't know why I carry this. On the 360 I use VATS more than free mode.
- Missile launcher. Just in case?
- Fat man. Just in case?
- Minigun. Should probably sell.
- Laser rifle. Will put this in my house in case I find more so I can rep up it's damage.

As for my guy - int, smalll guns, lock pick, science and repair. Moving in to energy weapons now. Pretty standard I guess.

Sam Jones

11-23-2008, 05:56 AM

Anyone else feel that the game seems to have cut off its head at that point? You can't have a game where you can explore so openly yet lose one of the most important aspects of an RPG (character advancement) when there's still so much to do. It dropped the value of the game by a notch almost immediately. I've no problem with level caps, in general, it's only that it came so soon. I'm glad I never took Here and Now (what a waste that would have been)!

The cap and speed of progression are annoying. They put a lot of content in the game, and it supports multiple playthroughs, even those where you don't or barely touch the main quest (as I'm doing on my second run). I'm also using a slow levelling mod this time, which is working out well. It raises the experience required each level enough that I've got quite a bit of breathing room to explore without feeling rushed before the cap hits. There's enough bonuses to be had just from items and questing that you can build a pretty powerful character even at lower levels.

Lizard_King

11-23-2008, 06:54 AM

Anyone else feel that the game seems to have cut off its head at that point? You can't have a game where you can explore so openly yet lose one of the most important aspects of an RPG (character advancement) when there's still so much to do. It dropped the value of the game by a notch almost immediately. I've no problem with level caps, in general, it's only that it came so soon. I'm glad I never took Here and Now (what a waste that would have been)!
You're right on that, along with the xp accelerating perk. In general I think another five levels spaced out well would have done the trick for me. It's probably the only reason I am sorry I am playing it on a 360 and can't mod.

Also, I think there's something to what that NMA reviewer was saying about the impact of statistics being watered down so everybody can pretty much do everything in a single build. So far the only perks that have had dramatic gameplay implications are cannibal (hilarious every time) and silent running. The rest have subtle, cumulative effects that while good, do not really differentiate a character's build from another. That's a shame, but not really a game breaker. I guess it's like Mass Effect's "pick a gun, any gun" philosophy.

Chris Nahr

11-24-2008, 01:54 AM

You're right on that, along with the xp accelerating perk. In general I think another five levels spaced out well would have done the trick for me. It's probably the only reason I am sorry I am playing it on a 360 and can't mod.

As it happens, I was stupid enough to take two levels of that extra XP perk... and now I'm seeing the level cap approaching while I'm still in the middle of the game. :(

Really aggravating. If Bethesda felt that this level cap was necessary for balance reasons they could have at least omitted those xp/level perks -- they're effectively worthless and nothing but a trap for the player.

Are there mods to lift the level cap yet, or perhaps a character editor? I'm contemplating restarting the game to fix this and other mistakes.

John Sansker

11-24-2008, 02:18 AM

I know putting any points in luck is pretty much a waste as it only increses any chance of good or bad things happening by like 1% or so. I focused on strength (solely for carrying lots of crap) and endurance. The others let you talk a bit more, yadda yadda yadda. Like there's not enough talking in the game. That's it, my big exclusive Fallout 3 strategy guide! Feel free to make Paypal donations.
Dude.
Without luck, your weapons don't just jam, they shit.
Quote taken from a stupid little game from a long time ago.

Luck does add to the chance of random encounters, true enough.
It also adds +1 to all skills per every 2 ranks or so. (1-2 luck= +1 to skills, 3-4= +2, all the way up to +5 at 10)
Luck also adds 1% to critical per rank, 10 luck= 10% to critical.

Luck is more important than people realize - there IS a random encounter system, although it's so seamlessly integrated that you may not realize an encounter was random.

Intelligence, Agility, Luck are the most important, in that order.
Perception is good, but not necessary.
Strength, charisma and endurance are much less important (other than strength for melee characters)

Re-quoting Desslock for maximum fucking truth here kiddies.

Now, mild spoiler alert.

"Named" versions of weapons, or the "Unique" versions usually feature.
1) Increased damage. (damage on these actually scales up with the governing skill, unlike the regular versions)
2) Increased chance to critical. ( oh holy shit, I have the guide, main reason was to find Dogmeat, secondary was the unique weapons, and the buildables.
Did the quest line to get the Unique scoped .44 magnum aka Blackhawk...
Blackhawk at 80 small arms does something like 57 points of damage per hit, with a 9 luck sniper, finesse, gunslinger, and bloody mess perks 6 shots=6 exploded heads/bodies)

Character build.

S 5
P 6
E 5
C 4 (this actually hurt just a little at the very beginning till I bought it off)
I 8
A 5
L 7

This is my starting build, first few levels pump up Int and luck, then add perks that add to crits.

DrCrypt

11-24-2008, 02:53 AM

As it happens, I was stupid enough to take two levels of that extra XP perk... and now I'm seeing the level cap approaching while I'm still in the middle of the game. :(

Really aggravating. If Bethesda felt that this level cap was necessary for balance reasons they could have at least omitted those xp/level perks -- they're effectively worthless and nothing but a trap for the player.

I took that extra XP perk twice... and while you're right that it's nothing but a trap for the player, making him less powerful than he would otherwise be by level 20, my character was such a completely unstoppable killing machine by the end of Fallout 3 that I can't even imagine how overpowered I would have been if I -hadn't- effectively thrown two perks away.

Jasper

11-24-2008, 03:18 AM

Morberis

11-24-2008, 04:50 AM

I tried a mod (http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=122) suggested by another poster that (among many other things):
- lowered skill points
- lowered hit points
- made the differences between stat increases significant (e.g. +1 str -> +25 lbs)
- stopped XP scaling with difficulty
- reduced XP from many things
- increased limb damage (offsetting an apparent increase due to a bug)
- had a setting that increased the amount of XP it takes to level

Holy Crap but it makes what is already an incredible game much better, alleviating many of the surprisingly stupid RPG design decisions Bethesda made. Reading through the mod notes I wasn't too impressed, but the end effect is greater than the sum of its parts.

You might also want to try another one called Vats MCE (http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=161) which makes your accuracy falloff over distance more than just a function of how far away the enemy is, instead using the relevant weapon skill. It is compatible with the mod your using, I'm using both and its a fantastic experience.

One thing you might want to be aware of is that the console command that provides you experience will no longer work correctly using the Sager mod, at least it won't for me. One negative consequence of reducing the leveling speed is, and I may be misunderstanding the leveling scaling here, that areas will be set at your level when you enter them. And now that you'll be a low level for a much longer period of time more areas will be filled with things like bloatflies. You could try to get around that by cheating, but at least when I tried the console command nothing would work despite other commands working (no clip for getting out of rocks, accidentally dropping my weapon and having it disappear through the geometry of the ground-wtf?)