Burn, baby, burn!

[TomChick]

This looks to me like a complete flame-out (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/06/AR2008100602935.html). Ugly, ugly stuff.

Barack Obama, she told 8,000 fans at a rally [in Florida] Monday afternoon, "launched his political career in the living room of a domestic terrorist!" This followed her earlier accusation that the Democrat pals around with terrorists. "This is not a man who sees America the way you and I see America," she told the Clearwater crowd. "I'm afraid this is someone who sees America as imperfect enough to work with a former domestic terrorist who had targeted his own country." The crowd replied with boos.

Palin then went on to blame Katie Couric's questions for her "less-than-successful interview with kinda mainstream media." At that, Palin supporters turned on reporters in the press area, waving thunder sticks and shouting abuse. Others hurled obscenities at a camera crew. One Palin supporter shouted a racial epithet at an African American sound man for a network and told him, "Sit down, boy."

...Palin, speaking to a sea of "Palin Power" and "Sarahcuda" T-shirts, tried to link Obama to the 1960s Weather Underground. "One of his earliest supporters is a man named Bill Ayers," she said. ("Boooo!" said the crowd.) "And, according to the New York Times, he was a domestic terrorist and part of a group that, quote, 'launched a campaign of bombings that would target the Pentagon and our U.S. Capitol,' " she continued. ("Boooo!" the crowd repeated.)

"Kill him!" proposed one man in the audience.

[Anti-Bunny]

It's un-astonishing how little the undecideds care about this [the Bill Ayers thing]. It didn't work months ago, why would it now?

[Talisker]

Now they won't even let the press talk to Palin supporters at her rallies (http://blogs.tampabay.com/breakingnews/2008/10/under-the-watch.html).

[triggercut]

Problem being: this stupid little freak is going to whip some racist into a frenzy of hate enough to seriously want to do President Obama some harm.

Please let this end with a landslide repudiation of she and her crazy old man running mate.

[Juan Rayo]

Wow, just, wow.

From the linked article:


UPDATE: Here (http://www.latimes.com/media/acrobat/2008-10/42750415.pdf) (.pdf) is a newspaper column from Bobby May, the McCain campaign chair in Buchanan County, Virginia and correspondence secretary for the Buchanan County Republican Party, warning that "the platform of Barack Hussein Obama" includes: Illegal Immigration: "Learn to Speak Spanish"; Terrorist Threat to America: "Learn to Speak Arabic";
Reparations to Black Community: Opposes before Election Day and supports after Election Day;
Freedom of Religion: Mandatory Black Liberation Theology courses taught in all churches;
Homosexual Marriage: Coddle sexual perverts. Give tax breaks for NAMBLA membership;
Drug Crisis: Raise taxes for free drugs for Obama's inner-city political base;
The White House: Hire rapper Ludacris to "paint it black."

[TomChick]

What the...? Where did that run? Surely that's not from the LA Times? It looks like something from some tiny Appalachian white trash small-town newspaper.

Hey, do y'all remember this guy (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24276517/)?

-Tom

[Rimbo]

Just forwarded that link to my brother, who said about Palin that he shares her values.

Bro, these are the values you're sharing.

[Brendan]

Substitute Palin with Malema and you could be at a South African political rally.

[ydejin]

This looks to me like a complete flame-out (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/06/AR2008100602935.html). Ugly, ugly stuff.
It looks like McCain/Palin may have unleashed more than they anticipated. Watch McCain's reaction in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjf0NlfO73M&) when one of his supporters calls Obama a terrorist. Maybe I'm reading too much in to this, but watching McCain's face I see surprise and a bit of shock and distaste in McCain's expression. You can almost see McCain thinking "terrorist where the heck did that response come from," but then McCain ignores it and continues on with his speech.

[godhugh]

Are they trying to get Obama killed?

[RepoMan]

Probably. It was more or less inevitable that the biggest hit men psychos the far right wing has to offer are going to be whipped into a frenzy for the entirety of Barack's presidency. I hope they are paying the motherfucking secret service triple time, because there are some militia fuckers out there right now who are going to make them earn it.

[wildpokerman]

Hey, do y'all remember this guy (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24276517/)

I'm not sure I recognize that guy, didn't he have a black baby or something?

[salwon]

Hire rapper Ludacris to "paint it black."

http://brianalexander.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/rolling-stones.jpg

Indeed.

[Telefrog]

...newspaper column from Bobby May, the McCain campaign chair in Buchanan County, Virginia and correspondence secretary for the Buchanan County Republican Party...



That's really the most shocking part about that article. This isn't written by some crazy isolated coot in a shack somewhere while still wearing his KKK robes, this is an official representative of the Party in that county. It really does illustrate that racism is not dead despite our best efforts to educate and foster dialogue.

[Staff Sergeant]

This sort of shit scares me. Hopfully this becomes very public and the majority of voters (who are hopefully not racist) will be disgusted by the sort of slander that McCain/Palin speeches evoke.

If I was an American and I was in favor of McCain/Palin before, seeing the sort of crap that they let slide and actually encourage at their rallies would make me seriously question myself.

[snowcrash22]

If I was an American and I was in favor of McCain/Palin before, seeing the sort of crap that they let slide and actually encourage at their rallies would make me seriously question myself.

Yeah but, where are they going to see it and will they believe it if they do?

[Cubit]

Fuck Palin. Fuck her and anyone else who is using fear partially generated by 9/11 to demonize another person for political gain. Way to bring out the best in your supporters, Republicans.

[Andrew Mayer]

Yeah but, where are they going to see it and will they believe it if they do?

Looking at Palin's actual polling numbers, it's clear what she's holding here are rallies, not campaign events. She's gathering together the faithful, and telling them what they want to hear.

[DavidKaye]

Wow, just, wow.

From the linked article:


UPDATE: Here (http://www.latimes.com/media/acrobat/2008-10/42750415.pdf) (.pdf) is a newspaper column from Bobby May, the McCain campaign chair in Buchanan County, Virginia and correspondence secretary for the Buchanan County Republican Party, warning that "the platform of Barack Hussein Obama" includes: Illegal Immigration: "Learn to Speak Spanish"; Terrorist Threat to America: "Learn to Speak Arabic";
Reparations to Black Community: Opposes before Election Day and supports after Election Day;
Freedom of Religion: Mandatory Black Liberation Theology courses taught in all churches;
Homosexual Marriage: Coddle sexual perverts. Give tax breaks for NAMBLA membership;
Drug Crisis: Raise taxes for free drugs for Obama's inner-city political base;
The White House: Hire rapper Ludacris to "paint it black."


The dude's email address is printed on there. Not that I would ever suggest doing anything like this, but man - wouldn't it be a shame if a concerned citizen signed this bigoted fuck up to, I don't know, every gay porn mailing list out there? That sure would be a pity.

[Telefrog]

The dude's email address is printed on there. Not that I would ever suggest doing anything like this, but man - wouldn't it be a shame if a concerned citizen signed this bigoted fuck up to, I don't know, every gay porn mailing list out there? That sure would be a pity.

I'm sure 4chan and the Somethingawful Goons have already beat you to that.

[Midnight Son]

I don't think this kind of shit is going to sway anyone with a brain. Therefore, it's just pandering to the lunatic idiot fringe.

[noun]

Fuck Palin. Fuck her and anyone else who is using fear partially generated by 9/11 to demonize another person for political gain. Way to bring out the best in your supporters, Republicans.

But see, the Republican party has been this way for decades. It's the party for greedy CEOs, religious nut jobs and racists. If anything, they're just being more honest about it this election cycle.

[MarchHare]

I don't think this kind of shit is going to sway anyone with a brain. Therefore, it's just pandering to the lunatic idiot fringe.

You mean the people who elected George W. Bush? Twice.

[Midnight Son]

You mean the people who elected George W. Bush? Twice.

Not "honestly" they didn't. We had elections that would make sub equatorial African dictators proud. I'm hoping for a different outcome this time since most of the tricks were exposed.

[Ranulf]

This sort of shit scares me. Hopfully this becomes very public and the majority of voters (who are hopefully not racist) will be disgusted by the sort of slander that McCain/Palin speeches evoke.

If I was an American and I was in favor of McCain/Palin before, seeing the sort of crap that they let slide and actually encourage at their rallies would make me seriously question myself.

Most won't for various reasons. I see this as a possible backlash against daring to criticize Obama's questionable connections. While if this is true, hopefully its an isolated incident and I doubt its condoned by the McCain campaign. If not, its a sad thing and a great discredit to McCain/Palin. As someone who leans conservative (former republican now registered independent) I've gotten used to being called a racist if I don't agree with various PC'isms, liberal political beliefs etc.. Just as I've been called a RINO/pinko by social conservatives who've continued to support republicans as they spend like drunken sailors and blame gays for the destruction of marriage (hint its not gays, its the laws/courts attitudes).

While Ayers past is certainly scary and very questionable my main concern about him is what he's been doing in public education since his uh, youthful indiscretions. "Radicalizing" education just turns kids into blind thinking cause heads, not productive members of society.

Somewhat OT, like many who seem to absolutely hate Palin for various reasons, I absolutely hate Joe Biden. To me he is the epitome of career politician with an authoritarian streak, as corrupt and fucked up in the head as Tom DeLay is/was. He's used fears of domestic violence against women to give state/fed governments and politicians/bureaucrats power/political gain at the expense of the innocent.

[arctangent]

Not "honestly" they didn't. We had elections that would make sub equatorial African dictators proud. I'm hoping for a different outcome this time since most of the tricks were exposed.

Me too, but we're probably delusional.

[mystery]

Not "honestly" they didn't. We had elections that would make sub equatorial African dictators proud. I'm hoping for a different outcome this time since most of the tricks were exposed.

They were exposed, but no one listened to the exposure, for the most part. There are districts out there running with Diebold machines, and other districts with paperless touch-screen voting machines running full versions of windows that ...connect to the internet. I kid you not.

[quatoria]

The dude's email address is printed on there. Not that I would ever suggest doing anything like this, but man - wouldn't it be a shame if a concerned citizen signed this bigoted fuck up to, I don't know, every gay porn mailing list out there? That sure would be a pity.

It would be a shame, yes, since that could easily be spun into negative publicity for Obama supporters. "Obama supporters barrage family man's mailbox with gay pervert porn, want to do same to your children" etc etc.

[BlueJackalope]

While Ayers past is certainly scary and very questionable my main concern about him is what he's been doing in public education since his uh, youthful indiscretions. "Radicalizing" education just turns kids into blind thinking cause heads, not productive members of society.

Just curious...what? What exactly has Ayers been up to? I know a bit about the Weather Underground, but nothing about Ayers post blowing shit up days. Your main concern about him is that he's "radicalizing" education, not that he help blow up government buildings? Link to the radical agenda please.

Somewhat OT, like many who seem to absolutely hate Palin for various reasons, I absolutely hate Joe Biden. To me he is the epitome of career politician with an authoritarian streak, as corrupt and fucked up in the head as Tom DeLay is/was. He's used fears of domestic violence against women to give state/fed governments and politicians/bureaucrats power/political gain at the expense of the innocent.

I think Biden is a self-important maudlin windbag, but please to be explaining what- actual and for reals, with examples - damage the violence against women act has caused.

BTW calling the violence against women act a political powergrab in the post 9/11 Bush era is um...I dunno, seems like missplaced paranoia?

[AaronSofaer]

There are districts out there running with Diebold machines, and other districts with paperless touch-screen voting machines running full versions of windows that ...connect to the internet. I kid you not.

Not just Windows, but SP-0 versions of Windows with hard-coded Admin logins and no ability to be updated through Windows Update or any other such.

It's almost frightening, but also sad and hilarious all at the same time.

[Slainte Mhath]

To think that a few weeks ago I was worried that Biden's mouth was going to cause trouble.

Who is coaching Palin in these appearances? FAIL.

[JPR]

Just curious...what? What exactly has Ayers been up to? I know a bit about the Weather Underground, but nothing about Ayers post blowing shit up days. Your main concern about him is that he's "radicalizing" education, not that he help blow up government buildings? Link to the radical agenda please.

...at a November 2006 education forum in Caracas, Venezuela, with President Hugo Chávez at his side, Ayers proclaimed his support for "the profound educational reforms under way here in Venezuela under the leadership of President Chávez. We share the belief that education is the motor-force of revolution. . . . I look forward to seeing how you continue to overcome the failings of capitalist education as you seek to create something truly new and deeply humane." Ayers concluded his speech by declaring that "Venezuela is poised to offer the world a new model of education - a humanizing and revolutionary model whose twin missions are enlightenment and liberation," and then, as in days of old, raised his fist and chanted: "Viva Presidente Chávez! Viva la Revolucion Bolivariana! Hasta la Victoria Siempre!"

...Ayers’s school reform agenda focuses almost exclusively on the idea of teaching for “social justice” in the classroom. This has nothing to do with the social-justice ideals of the Sermon on the Mount or Martin Luther King’s “I Have a Dream” speech. Rather, Ayers and his education school comrades are explicit about the need to indoctrinate public school children with the belief that America is a racist, militarist country and that the capitalist system is inherently unfair and oppressive. As a leader of this growing “reform” movement, Ayers was recently elected vice president for curriculum of the American Education Research Association, the nation’s largest organization of ed school professors and researchers.

Does this count?

edit: before anybody asks, this is from The City Journal, which is funded by the free market Manhattan Institute for Policy Research. I'm sure you feel that because of the use of the word "comrade" that the quote is taken out of context and the rest is a misrepresentation.

[BlueJackalope]

Does this count?

Sure, a little, endorsing Hugo Chavez is a dumbass thing to do, but not as dumbass as blowing things up I'd argue.

edit: before anybody asks, this is from The City Journal, which is funded by the free market Manhattan Institute for Policy Research. I'm sure you feel that because of the use of the word "comrade" that the quote is taken out of context and the rest is a misrepresentation.

Actually that is exactly what I was thinking. Just admitting where it comes from doesn't excuse its bias. The whole second paragraph is dead to me.

If you want a left-wing counter example, I pretty much dismiss anything Michael Moore says ever since I heard him refer to Bush and Cheney as "Bin-Bush" and "Bin-Cheney" for instance.

Your using a biased source, but I'll assume the stuff in quotes is essentially correct. Still not worse (as the poster that I was replying to stated) than blowing up stuff.

[JPR]

Just admitting where it comes from doesn't excuse its bias. The whole second paragraph is dead to me.

Considering the source and the content of that quote, you can probably take a stab at the good/bad spectrum of your feelings about him and his agenda. I know basically nothing about the guy (or his agenda), but this article happened to be linked by Reason today, so I grabbed it, since the topic came up.

[Kunikos]

Not just Windows, but SP-0 versions of Windows with hard-coded Admin logins and no ability to be updated through Windows Update or any other such.

It's almost frightening, but also sad and hilarious all at the same time.

Can voters sue Diebold for this kind of awful security?

[BlueJackalope]

Considering the source and the content of that quote, you can probably take a stab at the good/bad spectrum of your feelings about him and his agenda. I know basically nothing about the guy (or his agenda), but this article happened to be linked by Reason today, so I grabbed it, since the topic came up.

Based on the bare bones knowledge I have of Ayers, I don't have very good feelings about the man. But I do see this idea that education is being "radicalized" thrown about, with no proof, all the time in right wing opinion pieces. I am willing to believe anyone mis-guided enough to be in the Weather Underground is mis-guided enough to be -
"explicit about the need to indoctrinate public school children with the belief that America is a racist, militarist country and that the capitalist system is inherently unfair and oppressive."

Show some goddamn proof that that is actually happening in the really real.
Otherwise I suspect that its just more right wing anti-intellectual strawmanification.

From the article - which is also linked at RCP -

they worked together on the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, a five-year philanthropic venture that, starting in 1995, distributed over $160 million in school-improvement grants to the Windy City’s public schools. Ayers wrote the grant proposal that secured seed money for the schools and ran the implementation arm of the project; Obama became chairman of the board that distributed the grants.

Holy shit! That's some scary stuff! They wrote grants and distributed money? They must have attached radical-pinko-commie-whitey-hating strings to the money then right? Right?

[JPR]

Show some goddamn proof that that is actually happening in the really real.

I hope you're talking to the guy that wrote the article, and not to me.

The person you were originally responding to said that they tend to be conservative-leaning. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but it's probable that things like the following quotes worry him:


As Ayers wrote later, he took fire from [critical pedagogue Maxine] Greene’s lectures on how the “oppressive hegemony” of the capitalist social order “reproduces” itself through the traditional practice of public schooling.

Maxine Greene urged teachers not to mince words with children about the evils of the existing social order. They should portray “homelessness as a consequence of the private dealings of landlords, an arms buildup as a consequence of corporate decisions, racial exclusion as a consequence of a private property-holder’s choice.”

"We saw a system at work, we were radicalized, we named that system—imperialism—and forged an idea of how to overthrow it. We were influenced by Marx, but we were formed more closely and precisely by Che, Ho, Malcolm X, Amílcar Cabral, Mandela—the Third World revolutionaries—and we called ourselves small ‘c’ communists to indicate our rejection of what had become of Marx in the Soviet Block [sic]. . . . We were anti-authoritarian, anti-orthodoxy, communist street fighters."

Ayers makes clear that his political views haven’t changed much since those glory days. He cites a letter he recently wrote: “I’ve been told to grow up from the time I was ten until this morning. Bullshit. Anyone who salutes your ‘youthful idealism’ is a patronizing reactionary. Resist! Don’t grow up! I went to Camp Casey [Cindy Sheehan’s vigil at the Bush ranch in Crawford, Texas] in August precisely because I’m an agnostic about how and where the rebellion will break out, but I know I want to be there and I know it will break out.”

“The marriages between capitalism and education and capitalism and science have created a foundation for science education that emphasizes corporate values at the expense of social justice and human dignity. Science pedagogy framed around social justice concerns can become a medium to transform individuals, schools, communities, the environment, and science itself, in ways that promote equity and social justice. Creating a science education that is transformative implies not only how science is a political activity but also the ways in which students might see and use science and science education in ways transformative of the institutional and interpersonal power structures that play a role in their lives.”


People approaching this discussion with one viewpoint hear that stuff and get frightened. People with other viewpoints might hear it, think it sounds great, and think that people who disagree are falling victim to right-wing anti-intellectual strawmanification. The idea of teaching "social justice" is great for everybody, as long as it's your idea of social justice. As I'm sure we can agree, that definition would change significantly from person to person (or at least political affiliation to political affiliation). Ayers self-identifies as a communist, so his idea of social justice is probably quite different from that of a conservative.

Here we go again, but the article that stuff was pulled from (http://www.city-journal.org/html/16_3_ed_school.html) was written by the same dude that wrote the article I linked earlier. This time, I tried to just pull quotes.

[Tim James]

Regarding McCain's campaign in general: I was reading a libertarian blog a few days ago and someone pointed out that if you ask a person why he's voting for McCain, the first words out of his mouth are "Obama will..." I'm sure this has been mentioned on the forum as well.

I certainly can't argue. Literally nothing appeals to me about McCain other than he's not Obama. There's something to be said for a do-nothing candidate to counter an overzealous one, but here McCain's crazy ideas are just as risky and doomed to fail.

[Cubit]

Regarding McCain's campaign in general: I was reading a libertarian blog a few days ago and someone pointed out that if you ask a person why he's voting for McCain, the first words out of his mouth are "Obama will..." I'm sure this has been mentioned on the forum as well.

I certainly can't argue. Literally nothing appeals to me about McCain other than he's not Obama. There's something to be said for a do-nothing candidate to counter an overzealous one, but here McCain's crazy ideas are just as risky and doomed to fail.

Agreed. Its kind of the opposite now as it was in 04. Then, it was anybody but Bush. As we saw, thats not exactly a good platform for success.

[BlueJackalope]

I hope you're talking to the guy that wrote the article, and not to me.

The person you were originally responding to said that they tend to be conservative-leaning. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but it's probable that things like the following quotes worry him:

Yeah, I wasn't saying anything about you or Randalf, I was just wondering if there exists any evidence of this so called "radicalization" of education.
That Ayers is an ass with wacky views doesn't mean he has accomplished any of the things the right accuses him of. Has he been able to introduce text-books full of left wing ideology for instance? I don't think any such evidence exists, but I haven't really looked.

[JPR]

That same article says that Ayers' own books are mandatory reading for a growing percentage of education schools.

[BlueJackalope]

That same article says that Ayers' own books are mandatory reading for a growing percentage of education schools.

I'll accept that as a fact (for the sake of argument, "growing percentage" could mean a miniscule uptick, but whatever) but is there anything intrinsically radical or Anti American in them?

I don't like Ted Nugent's politics, but there is nothing wrong with "Cat Scratch Fever", y'know?

[JPR]

"Growing percentage" is my phrase, since I didn't want to go look it up again. I wouldn't be surprised if he said "frequent" or something similarly nebulous, though.

[salwon]

Has anyone ever won running the "I'm not the other guy" platform? I thought Kerry did remarkably well considering he was running as Not-Bush.

[Ranulf]

Just curious...what? What exactly has Ayers been up to? I know a bit about the Weather Underground, but nothing about Ayers post blowing shit up days. Your main concern about him is that he's "radicalizing" education, not that he help blow up government buildings? Link to the radical agenda please.



I think Biden is a self-important maudlin windbag, but please to be explaining what- actual and for reals, with examples - damage the violence against women act has caused.

BTW calling the violence against women act a political powergrab in the post 9/11 Bush era is um...I dunno, seems like missplaced paranoia?

JPR, covered most of my concerns about Ayers and his past. His weather underground history is not honorable but IMHO his views now are what concern me the most with this Annenberg project or whatever its called. He's part of the wacko left in education that I put in the same category as creationists.

As for Biden, his vaunted VAWA is sexist by its very name. Its the type of legislation that has helped lead up to the "post 9/11" era mindset (and Bush signed its reauthorization a few years ago). Joe also wants government funds now to provide free attorneys for women in divorces but no mention of men. Men never get abused aparently... so much for equal protection under the constitution. No sane person is against fighting domestic violence but its been a one way street and used to curtail civil rights of men and women.

Its helped to promote a legal system where restraining orders are handed out like candy, often ex-parte.. as in the defendant isn't even heard to plead their case (well they'll get a hearing weeks later after they've been kicked out of their home and they'll lose their gun rights in the process). That or they're given out simply because the plaintiff "filed papers correctly", see David Letterman's case for that disaster. Vawa has helped promote a system where adult women get child support from their minor male (statuatory) rape vicitims, thus profiting from their crimes and it funds groups that promote paternity fraud (see Alexander Shire case in MI and the Navarro case in CA). Look up the duluth model for domestic violence, google "yell at your spouse, lose your house". Look up Vawa's tacked on law, IMBRA. That one is great simply because it provides more protections to female and male foreigners than it does to US citizens. Match.com and Yahoo apparently got "exceptions" written in...

I view Biden as part of that problem and thus I could never vote for him or any ticket he's on.

[BlueJackalope]

JPR, covered most of my concerns about Ayers and his past. His weather underground history is not honorable but IMHO his views now are what concern me the most with this Annenberg project or whatever its called. He's part of the wacko left in education that I put in the same category as creationists.

This Annenberg project (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annenberg_Foundation)is not exactly a 5th column effort to bend the will of American children to the socialist dreams of Hugo Chavez. I don't like Ayers views either, but nobody has provided a scrap of evidence that he has injected his agenda into the education system. I can show where the creationists have on the other hand. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Kansas)

(I know... two Wikipedia citations, but the facts about both tha Anneberg foundation and Kansas Board of Education are not really in dispute)

As for Biden, his vaunted VAWA is sexist by its very name. Its the type of legislation that has helped lead up to the "post 9/11" era mindset (and Bush signed its reauthorization a few years ago). Joe also wants government funds now to provide free attorneys for women in divorces but no mention of men. Men never get abused aparently... so much for equal protection under the constitution. No sane person is against fighting domestic violence but its been a one way street and used to curtail civil rights of men and women.

Its helped to promote a legal system where restraining orders are handed out like candy, often ex-parte.. as in the defendant isn't even heard to plead their case (well they'll get a hearing weeks later after they've been kicked out of their home and they'll lose their gun rights in the process). That or they're given out simply because the plaintiff "filed papers correctly", see David Letterman's case for that disaster. Vawa has helped promote a system where adult women get child support from their minor male (statuatory) rape vicitims, thus profiting from their crimes and it funds groups that promote paternity fraud (see Alexander Shire case in MI and the Navarro case in CA). Look up the duluth model for domestic violence, google "yell at your spouse, lose your house". Look up Vawa's tacked on law, IMBRA. That one is great simply because it provides more protections to female and male foreigners than it does to US citizens. Match.com and Yahoo apparently got "exceptions" written in...

I view Biden as part of that problem and thus I could never vote for him or any ticket he's on.

I know there are anecdotes and exception to the rule type stories that are told on cable access shows run by Divorced Dads railing against the system and their ex wives every night but... (http://www.abanet.org/domviol/statistics.html)

In 2000, 1,247 women and 440 men were killed by an intimate partner. In recent years, an intimate partner killed approximately 33% of female murder victims and 4% of male murder victims.
Access to firearms yields a more than five-fold increase in risk of intimate partner homicide when considering other factors of abuse, according to a recent study, suggesting that abusers who possess guns tend to inflict the most severe abuse on their partners.
Of females killed with a firearm, almost two-thirds were killed by their intimate partners. The number of females shot and killed by their husband or intimate partner was more than three times higher than the total number murdered by male strangers using all weapons combined in single victim/single offender incidents in 2002.According to the U.S. Department of Justice, between 1998 and 2002:
Of the almost 3.5 million violent crimes committed against family members, 49% of these were crimes against spouses.
84% of spouse abuse victims were females, and 86% of victims of dating partner abuse at were female.
Males were 83% of spouse murderers and 75% of dating partner murderers
50% of offenders in state prison for spousal abuse had killed their victims. Wives were more likely than husbands to be killed by their spouses: wives were about half of all spouses in the population in 2002, but 81% of all persons killed by their spouse.I feel your concerns, honestly, I'm always suspicious of legislation that gets passed by using an emotional club to beat dissenters over the head. But, I don't think Biden's support on this matter disqualifies him.

Just curious, given your concern for constitutional rights, and Biden's stance on domestic violence apparently disqualifying him...who do you support?

[Talisker]

Cindy McCain says Obama is running the dirtiest campaign in American history (http://thepage.time.com/cindy-mccain-quotes-on-obama-running-dirtiest-campaign/).