Love's Labour's Lost

[bmulligan]

From an early age we are introduced to the concept of love through our cultural interactions. We experience movies, books, television and song that all show the concept of love as an ideal state of perfection and bliss. It's presented and discussed as if it is a living spirit that possesses ones being and creates nirvana. How often have we heard, used, or believe in the idea of a 'soul-mate' for us, that there's one true love waiting for us somewhere in this world?

Even the myths created in ancient civilizations gave a persona to the idea of love, and that it chooses you to be graced, that you have no control over it, only it over you.

Compare this concept of love to that of god and you can easily see that the two are almost interchangable. They are worshipped, they create our destiny, they choose us to be special, not by our graces, but by our hearts. This is why I have a problem with the concept of love as it is used in our society.

Love is not magic, it's not spiritual, and it's not subject to the whims of the gods. Love is a choice. It originates from our own self-conciousness. It is an extention of our being. It starts with knowing our own mind, and using it as the standard of value in comparison to all other things.

Many would believe they are powerless to choose what and whom to love. These people also believe love makes people do crazy things. They do not understand what love really means, and use it as an excuse to absolve themselves of responsibility for their chioces and actions.

[Kalle]

I see, everyone but you has misunderstood the true nature of love. :roll:

[Major Malphunktion]

obviously you do not have children.

I made no choice to love my kid. It just is.
You have no concept of unconditional love until you have your first child. Not you wife, mother daddy goldfish gives the same overwhelming feeling that you child does.

Is it magical - yes.
Is it an overriding force-yep, I'll even say it is the most powerful force in the universe. I cannot think of any other emotion or object that would cause me sacrifice my life without a second thought. To me it is the only thing that overrides my basic survival of the fittest programming.

[Robert Sharp]

Actually, the ancients had different kinds of love, as we do today (though they broke it down differently). There was cupiditas, which is like desire, and there was pietas, which is love of god (or the divine). There were others as well, of course. At any rate, these were VERY different feelings. The love you have for God is not sexual (though it CAN be, as witnessed by ecstasy statues in the Middle Ages). Cupiditas can be felt for money or other people or whatever...it was of the physical in general.

And yes, the ancients thought love had control over you, but that didn't always make it bad. Interestingly the word 'passion' comes from the Latin PPP passus sum, which means to suffer. Passion is a kind of suffering, and passionate love HURTS. But that isn't always a negative thing, as people who have felt it realize.

In modern times, love is still seen as less of a choice and more of an event...something that happens to you. You don't choose whom to fall in love with, anymore than you really choose when to be angry or happy or whatever. People fall in love with dangerous things and people don't fall in love with things that would be good for them. Of course, you can suppress feelings and can even overcome them, but if everyone could just choose to be happy all the time, most people would. As an example of the lack of control that we ultimately have over our emotions, bmulligan, you are probably getting angry even as you read this. I did that to you...you didn't choose it.

[cyborg]

Don't make me love, you wouldn't like me when I love.

[bmulligan]

obviously you do not have children.


Actually, I have a wife and a son. I love them dearly. They have as much value to me as my own life.


As an example of the lack of control that we ultimately have over our emotions, bmulligan, you are probably getting angry even as you read this. I did that to you...you didn't choose it.

I think you may have a superiority complex regarding your power.
I never meant that love cannot be catagorized or was without feeling, or emotion, simply that it is not magical or supernatural in nature. Emotions can override our reason in many instances but that does not make anger, hate, or passion a miraculous occurance, or that some 'other worldly' power is controlling it and us.

All I'm trying to convey is that the paridigm of love in our society is comparable to the christian trying to achieve perfection. That he is doomed to failure from the start because he is inherently imperfect. And that when one believes in such a magical love, and it isn't as perfect as concieved, they tend to drift in the wind looking for love's lottery instead of working to achieve it.

People like Kalle probably think that love requires one to be anointed by Eros. Obviously he's unable think to hard about the subject as the rest of you most graciously have.

[Jason McCullough]

What the hell?

[The Narrator]

Rarely had McCullough spoken for the majority, but his “what the hell” was more than just a single man’s opinion. It was as if he had psychically given form to the bewildered thoughts of all who entered the thread unaware, and who stumbled out, one by one, dazed and baffled, wondering if perhaps The Sieve was more than just a psychotic philosophical construct, but rather an infectious disease.

[JeffL]

All I'm trying to convey is that the paridigm of love in our society is comparable to the christian trying to achieve perfection. That he is doomed to failure from the start because he is inherently imperfect.


Just one small correction. Christians aren't in search of perfection - you stated the basis of Christianity perfectly when you said that we are all inherently imperfect.

FWIW

[bee cubed]

i think that if you were an alien watching american romantic comedies, you might get the idea that we think about love like bmulligan is saying we do.

i don't think there are that many people that think love works like in romantic comedies, though.

[Brad Grenz]

Not for me, so far. Meg Ryan has spurned ALL my advances to date.