Review: Force Unleashed

[Tom Chick]

Picture Vader in the conference room in "Star Wars," raising his hand to choke the guy and then delivering the line, "I find your lack of faith disturbing." Now imagine if he raised his hand and instead accidentally crushed the speakerphone in the center of the conference table. Awkward. Would he pretend he meant to do that? Or would he fumble around and try again, destroying more appliances and furniture in the process before eventually choking the faithless guy? Because that's what would happen in Force Unleashed.

Thumbs down. (http://www.crispygamer.com/gamereviews/2008-09-17/star-wars-the-force-unleashed-xbox-360.aspx)...

[BDGE]

I'm only halfway through the junkyard level and I can agree with everything in that review already. Bugs, bosses, and even that wonderfully poignant apprentice introduction.

Actually that one cutscene is "forcing" me to put up with this dissapointing game. It's 2008's Stranglehold, a game concept so solid, it could have slept walk itself to classic status, but development boobery made the wrong left turns.

[MattKeil]

I agree with every single thing in Tom's review.

Honestly if they'd made a CG movie out of this instead of Clone Wars, they might have had an actual hit on their hands.

[BDGE]

I agree with every single thing in Tom's review.

Honestly if they'd made a CG movie out of this instead of Clone Wars, they might have had an actual hit on their hands.

It probably would have been the best Star Wars related film property since 1983...

Oh and can I add how irritating the menu loading is? I never even want to upgrade myself because of them. As if it needed more reasons to disengage me from the game.

[stusser]

Yowzers. Fuck star wars indeed.

[foogla]

man what "you can't grab me shields"? blocking a lightsaber with a cutlass?

[MattKeil]

Some of the stormtroopers have protective shields that prevent you from grabbing them or using other Force powers on them until you whack them with the lightsaber a couple times. The really annoying ones have shields and flamethrowers and blow up when you kill them.

[Talisker]

Picture Vader in the conference room in "Star Wars," raising his hand to choke the guy and then delivering the line, "I find your lack of faith disturbing." Now imagine if he raised his hand and instead accidentally crushed the speakerphone in the center of the conference table. Awkward. Would he pretend he meant to do that? Or would he fumble around and try again, destroying more appliances and furniture in the process before eventually choking the faithless guy? Because that's what would happen in Force Unleashed.
Haha, I don't even need to read the review after that paragraph :)

[runesword forger]

Hmm. Do the Wii controls provide any redemption for this one?

[BDGE]

Who secretly replaced the Apprentice's lightsaber with a glowing wooden stick in this game?

[Rob_Merritt]

Who secretly replaced the Apprentice's lightsaber with a glowing wooden stick in this game?

We are here at a Superstar Destroyer, where we've secretly replaced the midichlorians in the blood of this young Jedi with Folgers crystals. Let's see if anyone can tell the difference!

[Jason McMaster]

I liked the game, but it certainly has some odd decisions. The level design is what bothered me the most. It's very confusing at parts and the save points are irritating.

[zengonzo]

I'm finding my enjoyment declining with each successive level - I suppose due to the hamstringing of the powers.

I'm actually using my Nerfsaber most of the time, which sucks.

[datter]

I was hoping for better reviews, any chance the Wii version will be any more fun I wonder?

[zengonzo]

I rented both, but I'm not sure I'm even going to put the Wii version in out of curiosity. I'm going to push through the main game - simply for interest in the story - and see if there's anything to get out of it with more stuff unlocked.

[Eric T Cheng]

I rented the PS3 version of the game. I'm enjoying being a bad ass Dark Jedi but my major gripe was mentioned by Tom: the crappy targeting system for the Force powers.

[Drastic]

Tom, thanks for linking to the youtubes of all the cutscenes in the recent Fidgit. The demo left me rather unimpressed what with the inexplicable targetting system choice (hey, how did Vader force-choke that guy behind him in the first cutscene? He's using some kind of cheat code to target outside of his character facing!), and I probably wouldn't have watched them otherwise. That's good stuff, and reminds me of a time when Star Wars was pre-Fucked.

[Balasarius]

The Save option does nothing. Also, halfway through the second world and it's locked up on me twice.

Otherwise, however, I'm loving it. Of course, I love these types of games.

[zengonzo]

Yeah, that's pretty funny. But I guess if you pick up anything since the last checkpoint that would be helpful.

[Horrible Oscar]

I did enjoy the game quite a bit right up until that Star Destroyer thing mentioned in Tom's review. All canon bitching aside, it's still a horrible travesty of a boss battle.

[Linoleum]

You don't want to know how much Lucasarts ultimately spent on Force Unleashed. Seriously.

[Telefrog]

You don't want to know how much Lucasarts ultimately spent on Force Unleashed. Seriously.

How much they spent on the game or the whole merchandising tie-in hullabaloo?

That was my big warning for this. I remember the last big game/book/soundtrack/toy tie-in effort from these jokers. Prince Xizor can bite me.

[Wholly Schmidt]

How much they spent on the game or the whole merchandising tie-in hullabaloo?

That was my big warning for this. I remember the last big game/book/soundtrack/toy tie-in effort from these jokers. Prince Xizor can bite me.
I still can't believe I read that stupid book.

[Gordon Cameron]

a bar set lower than an Ugnaught's groin.

Nice!

[Jasper Phillips]

You don't want to know how much Lucasarts ultimately spent on Force Unleashed. Seriously.
Hell yes I do. Spill it man, and let The Schadenfreude flow!

I was 90% certain this game would suck from the moment I saw The Apprentice holding his sword backwards like some too-cool wanna-be kung fu masta. It was quickly clear these guys' interpretation of "cool" wasn't anything like mine: "But no! You just don't understand -- yanking down Star Destroyers is so cool! Sure, we could have made an (actually cool) game in line with the setting, but this just isn't that sort of game, so get over it! This all about The Force UNLEASHED, man -- free from any fetters!"

Yah, free from the fetters of internal consistency, good taste, and opponent targeting. :-/


Why am I so bitter about this? I have no idea. Probably I'm just pining for something as good as Tie Figther or Jedi Knight, or maybe it's because Force UNLEASHED! was so pretentious. Hopefully I'll feel better once KotOR 2 is actually finished.

[zengonzo]

Hopefully I'll feel better once KotOR 2 is actually finished.

I am about to make your day!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_of_the_Old_Republic_II

[Jasper Phillips]

Well, except that's never been actually finished.

I'm still waiting for the "Sith Lords Restoration Project" (http://www.team-gizka.org/) to finally wrap up development.

[Coca Cola Zero]

KOTOR 2 shipped years ago, but it was clearly never finished.

I assume Jasper was talking about the fan restoration project or something and not typoing KOTOR 3.

[John Keefer]

One of our writers has stepped forward and asked to write a dissenting opinion to Tom's review. We should have it up in the couple days.

[Rob_Merritt]

You don't want to know how much Lucasarts ultimately spent on Force Unleashed. Seriously.

Oh! Let me guess: $35 million. Am I close?

[Adam Sensoy]

Well, except that's never been actually finished.

I'm still waiting for the "Sith Lords Restoration Project" (http://www.team-gizka.org/) to finally wrap up development.

I know its fan made, it's on their time, they don't have to do it, and the whole nine-but I wish I knew what was taking so long. It has been so close for so long, and I have been eager to replay this game with the missing content.

[MattKeil]

You don't want to know how much Lucasarts ultimately spent on Force Unleashed. Seriously.

It's going to sell a million across all platforms easy. Does it really matter?

[Jasper Phillips]

I bet it matters. If, for example, the budget was as high as the $35 million Rob suggested they would need to sell more than a million copies to break even.

I'd be surprised if the budget was so high, but after Linoleum's statement, I'm intensely curious.

[Jasper Phillips]

I know its fan made, it's on their time, they don't have to do it, and the whole nine-but I wish I knew what was taking so long. It has been so close for so long, and I have been eager to replay this game with the missing content.
I have no idea, but they've sure been stuck at 1.0b10 for a long time -- there's been no progress reported for nearly a year. I'd be inclined to think it's just dead, except that I know I've been working on my own project for that long without updating my site.

I'd be happy with the never ending "beta" copy they have now, which is almost certainly better than Obsidian's version. Hmmm, maybe they're taking more beta applicants?

[Alan Au]

"Back of tricks"? You guys have editors, right?

- Alan

[MattKeil]

I'd be surprised if the budget was so high, but after Linoleum's statement, I'm intensely curious.

Considering how long it's been in development and all the tech they had to implement, plus the fact that it's LA's first next-gen game, that could very well be the budget if you factor in the cost of getting up to speed with development on the new systems. Granted that cost can be spread out among all the games they make subsequently, but they still had to spend it intially to get TFU out the door.

Still, I think it will sell very well and most likely be a financial success for them. Star Wars games sell, and one that looks that good and makes a good first impression should sell even better than they usually do.

[DustyTheHamster]

Spot on review. So far still on my first play through of it and barring the gimmicky boss battles my greatest enemy is that auto lock functionality, or lack there of. Also it is possible to glitch a boss out of the level, or maybe they just got locked in a corner the camera felt I had no business seeing, and continue to juggle you around the rest of the area.

[MattKeil]

Dusty's post just reminded me of the first time I fought the penultimate boss. He Force pushed me into a corner where the game just couldn't seem to get the apprentice's "get the hell up" animation to trigger correctly, and he just sort of flopped there while the boss walked up and ground-stabbed him for about a minute until he died.

[Kadath]

This seems too convenient to be coincidental:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kadath/2868157749/

Sam

[Coca Cola Zero]

This seems too convenient to be coincidental:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kadath/2868157749/

Sam


It is almost weird enough to make one think that maybe most Internet ads are context aware using some kind of fancy keyword algorithms or something... almost!

[Balasarius]

Got to the boss on the junk planet.

Holy fuck that's annoying. Normally I can target just fine when the camera is behind me. But during the boss fight, when the camera switches to an "all encompassing" mode, forget it. I couldn't hit shit, not even the titan.

My opinion of this game has now plummeted.

[zengonzo]

Auto-lock, and spam jumping and lightning.

It seems like once they get down to a certain level of health they become impervious to damage.

Of course, at this point I'm trying to get through both boss battles and regular battles - so I'm not sure what I'm playing for anymore.

[Pogo]

I only played the demo, but it sounds like the full game is generally indicative of some of the problems there. Mainly that the targeting is terrible for what you want to do. After playing it I kind of felt that it failed at being at least as good at Psi-Ops at the telekinesis while also failing at being as good as DMC/GoW/NG in the 3PA aspect.

[zengonzo]

OK, I just got to the star destroyer and I can't figure out who let this through.

It's excruciating. I can't even tell if I'm ever doing the right thing.

[Wheelkick]

I was 90% certain this game would suck from the moment I saw The Apprentice holding his sword backwards like some too-cool wanna-be kung fu masta.
Holding your blade in a reverse grip stance is usually to conceal what weapon you're using (or the length of the blade).
Not sure why this upsets so many. It is a valid technique which has both strengths and weaknesses.
Plus it makes you look cool (+1 cha)

[Chris Nahr]

Where is that a valid technique? In the Star Wars universe where all Jedi and most Sith have lightsabers of exactly the same size? I don't think so...

[Tom Chick]

OK, I just got to the star destroyer and I can't figure out who let this through.

Ha ha, well put.

As for Starkiller's lightsaber style, I actually thought it was pretty cool. I've long since given up on the practicality of how you're supposed to handle a lightsaber that can cut through solid metal. But keeping it tucked behind your back to you can wave your hand around doing various jedi stuff looked great to me. For the most part, I really liked how they animated him, and now I'm keen to figure out how to unlock the dude in Soulcalibur.

As for Starkiller's name, however, that's an entirely different matter. I mean, I know it was supposed to be the name of the main character in Star Wars, but wasn't there a reason it was replaced? Like, oh, say, because it's really stupid?

-Tom

[Brendan]

This thing is still going to sell a gabazillion copies and Lucas Arts will (rightly?) hail it as a step in the right direction.

[zengonzo]

But keeping it tucked behind your back to you can wave your hand around doing various jedi stuff looked great to me. For the most part, I really liked how they animated him, and now I'm keen to figure out how to unlock the dude in Soulcalibur.

I don't have a problem with the behind the back, and I agree that he's animated pretty well. But now and then I feel overly conscious of a misstep, as I might at seeing someone juggle swords on a tightrope.

As for the star destroyer thing, I keep dying around the second fighter pass, wherein my apparent options are to stand out like an ass and take lightning potshots as they make their runs, or to stand behind a column and wait forever for one of those engines to slooooowly make its way to me.

Seeing as I'm not sure what the success state is for the destroyer, I find myself trying to hold on for too long (and do I just hold down steady, or am I supposed to flick down repeatedly, or match the on-screen indicators?!?) and end up with just a sliver of health. So I take out all of the primary fighters, and there are two left doing languorous passes by me, while I wait for equally languorous volatile engines to float by (for whatever reason), with no ability to recharge my health. I might spend a long time doing this, and missing repeatedly with the engine missile as there are only two targets left and sometimes the thing likes to arc just over them, only to die from a fucking lucky blast that just went around the column.

I have to believe that I'm playing this segment wrong, or that it just hasn't clicked, because it's absolutely HORRIBLE the way it was going.

[Menzo]

Or you could zap the TIE Fighters with lightning...

[zengonzo]

That's the part where I stand out like an ass and make potshots.

It works if I have full health and I manage to take a few out, but invariably they score a few hits on me and I'm down to almost no health. I can't recharge my health, apart from actually destroying the fighters, which means I either risk dying and starting over, or I hang around in cover and wait for one of those innocent but unstable engines to meander by, on their way to the market, or something.

Dying, just about anywhere, feels really punishing between the 'LOADING...' and the unskippable cutscenes.

Anyhow, with enough patience I can take out the TIE Fighters, but what I don't know is whether I'm actually tugging the destroyer properly. Am I supposed to follow the on-screen cues? Am I supposed to yank down like crazy, or in measured paces? Do I just hold them down? It seems to move quite a bit at first, but then slows down to where I feel like nothing is happening. And why multiple fighter passes?

[Menzo]

Try multple pulls.

I can't answer the question about multple fighter passes. The designers wanted to create something that felt epic, but obviously missed.

[zengonzo]

I dig - and really do I want it to work. I'm not trying to bag on the game, but I am frustrated because I really like so much of it, style-wise .. I'm not playing until late in the evening because I want to be unhappy with it. But I'm also not exactly pleased at the point I do decide to quit playing.

At the very least, I hope we see the engine getting further use. There's plenty that could be explored with it.

Thanks, Menzo.

[MattKeil]

Where is that a valid technique? In the Star Wars universe where all Jedi and most Sith have lightsabers of exactly the same size? I don't think so...

The designers have always said they chose that grip because it allows the player to see their saber clearly at all times, which seems to be as good a reason as any.


Anyhow, with enough patience I can take out the TIE Fighters, but what I don't know is whether I'm actually tugging the destroyer properly.

I hear you, dude. This fight took me nearly 15 minutes the first time I ran into it, and I couldn't believe I wasn't missing something obvious, but as far as I can tell, this is how you do it:

When the first wave of TIEs comes in, zap them with lightning. The best way to do this is to wait for one to begin its peel off to one side, jump in the air and hit lightning as soon as you see the little targeting box (randomly) appear on the fighter. It will usually work. Do this repeatedly and you will almost certainly not be hit and have plenty of life.

When you have to rotate the ship, follow the prompts as best you can, but know two key things: To get the "down" command prompt the ship has to be positioned pointing almost exactly at you, and you also have to let go of the analog sticks (or at least recenter them) briefly to let the command prompt shift to "pull down." If there's a way to make it switch without doing this, I have not found it. I just hold them down. Tapping as the command prompt seems to indicate you should doesn't seem to help.

Rinse and repeat. As the Star Destroyer gets closer to the ground, the command prompts for rotating it seem to get less and less accurate. Near the end I find the green analog glow means almost nothing and you tend to have to rotate the ship upward into the red to get the down prompt.

I would love to see a post-mortem or something on that fight, because I can't figure out how anyone would find it acceptable, let alone fun to play. I know it was an iconic image from the teaser, but if there was no way to work it into a good gameplay sequence, why bother?

I would have liked to have seen a sequence (or maybe full stage) in which a Star Destroyer has been disabled by the apprentice and is going down, falling from the upper atmosphere to the ground, and you bust out of the bridge windows and fight your way up the surface of the ship to the prow, battling turbolaser turrets, EVO Troopers, TIEs, and Purge Troopers as it plummets, culminating in a crazy QTE sequence in which you pull mind-blowingly awesome Force-assisted acrobatics to survive the crash and resulting destruction.

[zengonzo]

I think it might've worked well as a siege-style level, wherein a battle is raging, with allies to you and enemies streaming over the wall, and you have to take occasion to fight them off between tugs, and the final result is the destroyer smashing into their legion, ending the siege.

You know, I've been doing this jump-electricity spam move for most of the game. For some reason on this one battle I've been completely grounded. I guess because of the sense of security of my cover. I'll try jumping, because the rare lucky hits from the ground just don't get me anywhere.

Thanks, Matt.

[Linoleum]

I bet it matters. If, for example, the budget was as high as the $35 million Rob suggested they would need to sell more than a million copies to break even.

I'd be surprised if the budget was so high, but after Linoleum's statement, I'm intensely curious.

Oh, it was much, much higher than $35 million. Although budget would be the wrong word, cash hemorrhage would be more apt. Even across 7 SKUs, I don't think they'll ever recoup. Yet I still can't bring myself to feel sorry for George.

[zengonzo]

I think it would be appropriate to write some of that off as research and discovery.

[Staff Sergeant]

Oh, it was much, much higher than $35 million. Although budget would be the wrong word, cash hemorrhage would be more apt. Even across 7 SKUs, I don't think they'll ever recoup. Yet I still can't bring myself to feel sorry for George.

Do you work at LucasArts or something?

[Jasper Phillips]

Holding your blade in a reverse grip stance is usually to conceal what weapon you're using (or the length of the blade).
Not sure why this upsets so many. It is a valid technique which has both strengths and weaknesses.
Plus it makes you look cool (+1 cha)
[Note from the ed: this is meant in a playfully mocking tone, rather than angry flames!]

Eh? What sword fighting style are you thinking of when you call it "legitimate technique"? Even if "concealing the length of your blade" is a huge priority, consider the surprising fact that you can hold your blade away from your opponent when you grip it the right way.

This "stance" is doubly lame for light sabers, which should be all about reach and control, and were much cooler when they were based on Kenjutsu -- something that was fitting, rather than purely being jury-rigged in for the "+1 Cha" bonus amongst the Sideways-Gat crowd.


Does this really matter? Well, of course not! [Nerd Rage Off! ;-)] I do think it's indicative of the designers' priorities though, and likely indirectly part of why obvious things like targeting got left out of the game. Speaking seriously here, I've found this to be one of the best filters for figuring whether a game will be any good.

As an example, I've a question for Tom here, would you have been ok with backward sword grips in LotR online? If not, why? To me these are very similar settings, despite the Starships and Droids.

[Jasper Phillips]

Oh, it was much, much higher than $35 million. Although budget would be the wrong word, cash hemorrhage would be more apt. Even across 7 SKUs, I don't think they'll ever recoup. Yet I still can't bring myself to feel sorry for George.
Wow. I hadn't realized it'd had that much trouble in development, that's crazy. I can see the money suits looking at their bottom line, and then reading about how much Blizzard has spent on WoW to date, and just crying.

Lucasarts was had plenty of recent successful titles, but that's got to take a huge bite out of their capital.

[DustyTheHamster]

Ok, so I just got past the star destroyer pulling down phase and now I have two big questions. First off how can I force grip a star destroyer out of the sky but cant grab one tie fighter to throw at another? Secondly how can I even target the star destroyer past every piece of rubble and junk on the planets surface?

As for a nifty tactic I used to get past this part with little to no damage but with alot of patience stand behind the one pillar that seems to be placed to provide cover. From there you can face slightly to the left and target the infineitly respawning engine, instead of trying to send the engine to the tie fighters let them come to it. The TIE's make a figure 8 attack pattern simply lift the engine into their path and hey fly right into it, destroying themselves and giving you health.

[Menzo]

Wow. I hadn't realized it'd had that much trouble in development, that's crazy. I can see the money suits looking at their bottom line, and then reading about how much Blizzard has spent on WoW to date, and just crying.

Lucasarts was had plenty of recent successful titles, but that's got to take a huge bite out of their capital.

Once again, I would advise against believing what you read on the internet. There are very few people even inside LucasArts who know what the budget for TFU ended up being. Those outside of that circle hear things, talk about things, add their own spin, and then tell it to their friends who do the same.

And everyone who's talking about the budget like Linoleum is doing so with an agenda, so I would suggest taking that information with a grain of salt.

Long story short: every number you hear will be a complete guess based on bits and pieces of information added to rumor and speculation.

[Bahimiron]

There should be a special award for the person who decided that the jedi boss battles should feature a fixed camera. Cos what Jedi on Jedi combat has always meant to me is 'looks like a shitty Street Fighter clone, 'cept you keep getting stuck on the geometry'.

[sw001]

I'll get dinged for this, but I enjoyed Unleashed. Certainly there were tons of issues, but when the game worked, I really enjoyed it. Some of the battles at the end were great (certain fancy guards), and I loved one of the opponents the robot buddy becomes midway through the game. I also thought the story was good for a game, and good for a Star Wars title, better then most of the crap that's been coming out of Lucas lately.

It was fun just enjoying a game, instead of trying to critique all its faults ;-).

(I will agree that the Star Destroyer battle was probably one of the worst game playing moments I've had though.... That really sucked.)

[sw001]

First off how can I force grip a star destroyer out of the sky but cant grab one tie fighter to throw at another?
You can grab the Tie Fighters with the right timing, though as another poster mentioned, lightning and jumping was the best weapon. Still a ridiculously annoying battle. A shame, as the 'boss' battle right before that was great.

[Wholly Schmidt]

Once again, I would advise against believing what you read on the internet. There are very few people even inside LucasArts who know what the budget for TFU ended up being. Those outside of that circle hear things, talk about things, add their own spin, and then tell it to their friends who do the same.

And everyone who's talking about the budget like Linoleum is doing so with an agenda, so I would suggest taking that information with a grain of salt.

Long story short: every number you hear will be a complete guess based on bits and pieces of information added to rumor and speculation.
As someone on the internet, I have a hard time believing you.

[Menzo]

As someone on the internet, I have a hard time believing you.

That's the spirit!

[bago]

Your lack of faith, ....

[Neopythia]

If the targeting is cooperative, you can pull the tie fighters out of the sky, or even better throw them into one another. When I finally beat it I took refuge behind the pillar and used a combination of tie fighter grabbing and engine throwing. I could dispatch the waves rather quickly.

What I want to know is why does the star destroyer have to be in perfect alignment? Is there something about the physics of the force that I just don't understand?

[Bahimiron]

I'm surprised that not a single review has covered the biggest, most important of no-nos that this game just up and does.

Un-fucking-skippable cutscenes.

[rei]

i think EB lost their bet on their gaming guarantee with this one.

[Rob_Merritt]

Un-fucking-skippable cutscenes.

Because they are the only reason to play this game?

[dogbert]

I'm surprised that not a single review has covered the biggest, most important of no-nos that this game just up and does.

Un-fucking-skippable cutscenes.

The game is loading in the background. As soon as it has finished loading the next level, you can skip the cutscene.

[Bahimiron]

The game is loading in the background. As soon as it has finished loading the next level, you can skip the cutscene.

This is true for the most part. So only half of the cutscene is unskippable.

However, it ain't at all true for the mid-mission cut scenes you occasionally get, and if one part happens to be giving you issues and you get to see that one scene over and over again... well, there's where the 'unforgivable' descriptor comes in.

[Cossix]

There should be a big memo that gets sent out to everyone making games.

Checkpoints after cutscenes or make them skippable. Please. :(

[rei]

why didn't they make this the cg movie and not the lame clone wars shit?

[Balasarius]

Finished it after about 9 hours of playtime. I liked it a lot.

My biggest issue was with getting knocked down and sliding across half the fucking level.

The boss battles were ok. Took me 3-4 tries to beat the Star Destroyer, though that was mostly due to bugs. I kept getting knocked back to a different area of the platform, closer to the viewer, and it's impossible to move back up to the front, closer to the Star Destroyer. While in the "rear" area of the platform, you lose cover and it's trivial for a TIE to knock you off. Lame.

The fights with the last two bosses were epic, and make up for it, though.

[RickH]

Done. I wouldn't have thumbs-downed it, but that's what happens when you have binary review choices.

Loved: the art & story. Much, much better than Shadows of the Empire, or whatever that one featuring Dash Rendar was called.

Hated: the combo system. Just like the Hulk game, dozens of combos and only a few useful ones. And, they inconsistently triggered. Also, the difficulty level was way too inconsistent.

Could have lived without: the three restarts required by lockups and bugs. The cheap looking in-game menus. The ridiculous challenge levels. The way the game expected you to do a certain thing in boss fights, but wouldn't give you any hints as to what it was.

EDIT: My memory failed me, there are three Fidgit review options. I would have gone with "try it," since any Star Wars fan will be simultaneously enthralled and annoyed by the game, and deserves the chance to find out for themselves.

[Staff Sergeant]

I took Tom's advice and just watched all the cutscenes on youtube. As it turns out, LucasArts would have made some money off of me if this had been a CG movie rather than a crappy game. I know it's been said before, but I have to say it, if only for the sake of agreeing: the writing blew all the games and episodes 1-3 out of the water.

[Drastic]

Mostly laziness on Tom's part. He usually not only links to a full torrent of games, but hosts them. I assume he's still working on cracking it.

[BobJustBob]

How is this any different than pirating the game?

More fun.

[stusser]

How is this any different than pirating the game?
It's more like watching someone else play the game. Assuming you were serious and not just trying to start shit up. But you are, aren't you? You probably PM'd cliffski and everything. Evil bastard.

[Pogue Mahone]

Aw man, I can't believe I had totally forgotten that I could just pirate this game rather than pay for it. Thanks Adam!

[Bahimiron]

I'm honestly getting to a point where I wonder if this game wasn't designed as a form of psychological torture, and any fun aspects of it are there purely by accident.

Edit: Y'know what? I'm done. This game beats me. Being punished for exploring in a game with hidden collectibles is really the last straw. Fuck you, Lucasarts.

[jeff3f]

heh. That may be the last free review copy ole Georgie floats over to Tom and Fidgit.

[Balasarius]

I'm honestly getting to a point where I wonder if this game wasn't designed as a form of psychological torture, and any fun aspects of it are there purely by accident.

Edit: Y'know what? I'm done. This game beats me. Being punished for exploring in a game with hidden collectibles is really the last straw. Fuck you, Lucasarts.

Hrm? There was only one force cube that I saw that screamed, "You're gonna die a lot to reach me." I left it alone.

[rei]

heh. That may be the last free review copy ole Georgie floats over to Tom and Fidgit.

there aren't any devs left. Lucasarts fired everyone.

[Wholly Schmidt]

heh. That may be the last free review copy ole Georgie floats over to Tom and Fidgit.

Actually, that was supposed to go to IGN, but you know how the targeting system is.

[dogbert]

there aren't any devs left. Lucasarts fired everyone.

No, they didn't. How many times does that need to be repeated before that damn meme dies? Even on here it's been hammered home that LucasArts did not "can the TFU team" or "fire everyone after it ships" etc.

[MattKeil]

Actually, that was supposed to go to IGN, but you know how the targeting system is.

Nice.

[BobJustBob]

No, they didn't. How many times does that need to be repeated before that damn meme dies? Even on here it's been hammered home that LucasArts did not "can the TFU team" or "fire everyone after it ships" etc.

I thought they fired everyone before it shipped.

[Menzo]

I thought they fired everyone before it shipped.

Yeah, that's what a random guy on Kotaku said.

It's not true.

I suppose it's much more fun to run a headline like "LucasArts fires everyone" than it is to, ya know, actually do some research and, I dunno, call us and ask if it's true.

(ninja edit: Kotaku is one of the sites that actually contacted us, and we confirmed our commitment to internal development with them. There are hundreds of other sites that failed to do so, and instead only ran the first, false, story, neglecting to ever update it. Some continue to run the same false stories today, masquerading as "news" even though we've talked directly to them about it. I'm looking at you, 1up.com - http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3169859)

But time will prove all that out. I expect all of you to ask the sites you know that ran that BS headline to run a retraction when it becomes painfully clear very soon that it was false.

[MattKeil]

Full details on the mass-firings at LucasArts will be revealed during G4's five hour Xbox 360 relaunch infomercial. (http://kotaku.com/5046921/rumor-xbox-360-to-relaunch-on-sept-25-with-tv-ad-blitz-free-games)

To be fair, they at least contacted G4 and Microsoft about that one.

[zengonzo]

Oh, you mean as the Xbox Pure (http://kotaku.com/5052203/what-is-the-xbox-pure-[update])?

[Bahimiron]

Hrm? There was only one force cube that I saw that screamed, "You're gonna die a lot to reach me." I left it alone.

It was an area where it looked like there might be something there. 'Cept all that was there was inexplicably slippery floor leading to a terrible death. Nothing about the floor suggested it should be slippery. It was not angled down. It was not covered in goo. It wasn't a rocky outcrop. It was just floor leading around the side of a building. Like where one might expect a holocron to be hidden. But instead of a holocron, there was a big present and on the present was a note saying 'For Bahimiron, From Lucasarts' and when I opened it it was filled to the brim with Fuck You.

[Equis]

So like Tom suggested, I watched the story in cutscenes rather than play the actual game. We do have it, my brother bought it for the PS3, but the gameplay didn't really grab me pass the second stage.

That would have been a shame because I really liked the story, and a lot of the art direction. They weren't kidding when they said they had a great story for "The Force Unleashed". This really should have been the animated movie rather than the lame clone wars shit.

[notatiger]

I got the black lightsaber crystal and beat the game today, and overall I still think it was a great game with numerous flaws. I can't believe I didn't learn how to throw with the L trigger before starting a second playthrough though. Man that would've made some things much easier.

I love just grabbing guys and messing with them. One guy grabbed another by the boot, dragging him into what would quickly be his death. And the 3 stormtroopers who all joined hands before flying off into the sky were great too. Or just spinning them around and around while they ask you to let them go, and then you grant them their wish and get a Long Way Down bonus is something I can do for far too long. There is good in the game and bad, and you will find what you are looking for.

[Malderi]

Am I the only one that didn't really like the story? I mean, it was acceptable, better than most action games, but I never wanted to keep going for the story. A lot of RPGs (well, Bioware ones) will hook me, and I keep playing as much to see the end as to kill stuff. TFU is something I play for killing things, which is mostly fun except when it's not. I'm happy I bought it, because it was insane amounts of fun at times (see: Vader throwing endless Wookiees off a bridge), but it really could've used another month or two of playtesting and polish. The difficulty was extraordinarily uneven and a lot of boss fights were pure cheese. They cheesed you and the only way to win was cheese back. But there was more than enough badassery to make up for it.

That said, how do I get the black lightsaber?

[MattKeil]

That said, how do I get the black lightsaber?

If the game detects you like the story using DMM technology, it rewards you with the black saber crystal.

Sorry, dude. :(

[Staff Sergeant]

How is this any different than pirating the game?

Nice trollbait, but I have a necklace of troll resistance +6, so I managed to win the roll and avoid the urge to give this the serious response it obviously doesn't deserve.

[RickH]

Am I the only one that didn't really like the story?

It's a shame that you didn't, it's pretty artful in tying together the themes from the I-III trilogy and the IV-VI trilogy.

[MSUSteve]

I've played enough of the game to comment on it. Overall it's a pretty frustrating experience. The game is hampered on a fundamental level by the abysmal targeting system. I can't even count the number of times I've targeted absolutely nothing with a devastating Force lightning blast when there are one or two enemies withing extremely close proximity. The camera is also pretty brutal at times, particularly during boss fights for some reason. I also wholeheartedly agree with Giancarlo Varanini's assessment of the controls: every button press feels just a little bit detached from the action on the screen. Worse yet, I often press buttons only to see nothing happen on screen. This becomes doubly frustrating when getting pounded on by a group of random enemies.

Overall, the game just isn't very good. The graphics are pretty phenomenal and I look forward to the cutscenes, but I sort of dread actually playing the game. When I have some free time at home and I think of my options, when I consider The Force Unleashed, it usually doesn't seem like the best option because I know the experience is going to frustrate and annoy me.

[zengonzo]

I thought the plot itself was a little clumsy, but I enjoyed the characterizations.

And the basic concept involved, the notion that Vader was plotting all along, and indirectly responsible for his own downfall (and redemption) was far more compelling than anything presented in the prequels. That's something that could've gone over really poorly.

And I'm always impressed at how creative folk are able to modernize the Star Wars atmosphere, but still maintain an incredible link to the look and feel of the originals. It's something that I don't often see accomplished in other series.

[zengonzo]

This becomes doubly frustrating when getting pounded on by a group of random enemies.

I can actually deal with most of the other stuff, but this just absolutely kills me.

When I've already taken a hit and am getting hit with a huge barrage, I've nothing to do but simply watch myself slowly die as I get knocked from one helpless animation into another. That is incredibly frustrating.

I could probably even get over that, were I able to drop right back in where I was - but usually I have to go through that Loading screen and back to before the last unskippable cutscene, which just isn't fun. Of all the death punishments ..

[Bahimiron]

the notion that Vader was plotting all along, and indirectly responsible for his own downfall (and redemption) was far more compelling than anything presented in the prequels. That's something that could've gone over really poorly.

The whole thing just kind of stands as a continued bolstering to my belief that the six movies are the among the least interesting stories told in the Star Wars universe.


When I've already taken a hit and am getting hit with a huge barrage, I've nothing to do but simply watch myself slowly die as I get knocked from one helpless animation into another.

God, yes. Three purge troopers and three snipers in one area isn't a challenge. It's sadism. What I hate most about the purge troopers is that you could be behind shielding and do some trickery to hit 'em with lightning, then duck back behind the shielding, 'cept somehow their goddam cannon shot can go right through shielding.

[Equis]

And the basic concept involved, the notion that Vader was plotting all along, and indirectly responsible for his own downfall (and redemption) was far more compelling than anything presented in the prequels. That's something that could've gone over really poorly.

And I'm always impressed at how creative folk are able to modernize the Star Wars atmosphere, but still maintain an incredible link to the look and feel of the originals. It's something that I don't often see accomplished in other series.

So far as it stands, the best Star Wars stories remains in the games of the extended universe, where George Lucas remains as a cursory advisor rather than an active creative role.

Jedi Knight
KOTOR
SW: TFU
TIE Fighter.

The Star Wars universe is a great universe to explore a variety of stories and themes, bouyed by the central figure of Darth Vader and his redemption. In itself a pretty powerful motif. It's just a shame that the progenitor of such a world doesn't really recognize the strength of that and is pretty terrible in its execution.

[zengonzo]

And after glancing through the original scripts, I'm still confused as to how they evolved into 4, 5 and 6.

I realize Zahn was a bit maverick with his interpretations among some fans, but they were really good stories.

[MSUSteve]

Those original Timothy Zahn novels were awesome, at least in my memory. I was a kid when I read them.

[zengonzo]

Yeah, they were the first ones that I'd read, and gave me a voracious appetite for Star Wars novels.

By the time I'd gotten to Kevin J. Anderson I was sick to my stomach, and now don't even look twice at one.

I'd also tried reading one of Zahn's original works much later, but didn't find myself much drawn in by them.

They should've paid that guy a billion dollars to write Star Wars for the rest of his life.

[Staff Sergeant]

So far as it stands, the best Star Wars stories remains in the games of the extended universe, where George Lucas remains as a cursory advisor rather than an active creative role.

Jedi Knight
KOTOR
SW: TFU
TIE Fighter.

The Star Wars universe is a great universe to explore a variety of stories and themes, bouyed by the central figure of Darth Vader and his redemption. In itself a pretty powerful motif. It's just a shame that the progenitor of such a world doesn't really recognize the strength of that and is pretty terrible in its execution.

Let's not forget the epic that was galactic battlegrounds. Never was a AOE clone so provocative and compelling.

[Bahimiron]

Those original Timothy Zahn novels were awesome, at least in my memory. I was a kid when I read them.

I'm not gonna lie to you, Steve.

Don't go back and reread 'em.

Stick with your happy memories.

[Matt Bowyer]

I'm not gonna lie to you, Steve.

Don't go back and reread 'em.

Stick with your happy memories.

Huh. I just re-read them a few months back and enjoyed them a great deal. Then again, I'm a complete tool for Zahn and have a lot of his original stuff, so I'm hardly unbiased.

[MSUSteve]

I'm not gonna lie to you, Steve.

Don't go back and reread 'em.

Stick with your happy memories.
That was sort of my sense, which is part of the reason I never did go back. Ha ha!

[zengonzo]

Even at the time there were things I didn't like about them, but they were heads above anything I'd read subsequently, particularly when that portal to hell opened up in Anderson's head and spewed forth a legion of horrors.

(I hate that guy!)

[MSUSteve]

Did you ever read The Truce at Bakura by Kathy Tyers? I remember really loving that one.

[zengonzo]

Yeah, that one was decent. I didn't really dig the opponents in it, but I've got a soft spot for enemy alliance stories.

The Lando Calrissian stories were fun for pulp, too, though I don't think they captured the tone as well. Much better than the Han Solo stories, which seemed bordering on goofy right up to the point they had Han exclaiming 'oh, dear!', at which point I started reading on autopilot.

I think the things that tend to kill the stories the most for me are when the writers try to make something so unique and interesting to the universe that it completely disrupts the atmosphere, like a Force-Resistant hotdog, or folks that exist completely external to the Force (and thus the established systems of the universe).

I really dig when a writer creatively puts things together that are already established in the basic concepts, or a new twist on an old design. Which I brings us back to what I liked about Force Unleashed's storyline - it felt like a snug fit in the existing world, with a slight twist on the perspective.

[Equis]

I really dig when a writer creatively puts things together that are already established in the basic concepts, or a new twist on an old design. Which I brings us back to what I liked about Force Unleashed's storyline - it felt like a snug fit in the existing world, with a slight twist on the perspective.

Except for the part where Starkiller seems so much more powerful than any Jedi depicted in the 6 movies. I mean, he's pulling star destroyers from orbit, and wiping armies off the map with grab and throw. What did Vader ever do? Choke someone?

[Adam Sensoy]

Even at the time there were things I didn't like about them, but they were heads above anything I'd read subsequently, particularly when that portal to hell opened up in Anderson's head and spewed forth a legion of horrors.

(I hate that guy!)

Every one of Kevin J. Anderson's Star Wars books are absolute trash. I prefer to leave them out of my own version of canon completely, lest they cause the SW universe to implode and cease to exist entirely due to their crapitude.

[zengonzo]

Except for the part where Starkiller seems so much more powerful than any Jedi depicted in the 6 movies. I mean, he's pulling star destroyers from orbit, and wiping armies off the map with grab and throw. What did Vader ever do? Choke someone?

I suppose I make a distinction between what happens in the gameplay and what happens in the cutscenes.

[Adam Sensoy]

Did you ever read The Truce at Bakura by Kathy Tyers? I remember really loving that one.

This one I really didn't like, for the Leia nonsense and the enemy (opponents? whatever) being so godawful boring. If I can get a glimpse of some of my bookshelf later ill post up a person top 10 (not taking into account the last half of the NJO-haven't had time to read them all yet, the Swarm War-no time to read yet, and the Coruscant nights stuff).

[MSUSteve]

With regard to Starkiller being more powerful than any Jedi ever depicted in the flicks, I just sort of turn a blind eye to it and assume that Luke and Obi-Wan could've done the same, but it just wasn't showed. It's like sticking my fingers in my ears and shouting, "LA LA LA! I DON'T HEAR YOU!" but it works for me.

I liked Truce at Bakura because it was a very personal and emotional story with regard to Dev, the brainwashed Force sensitive. That was my big takeaway from that book.

[rei]

the existence of the yuuzhan vong piss me off to no end.

[MSUSteve]

I stopped reading the books quite a long time ago. I know I read a ton of the New Republic era stuff, up through The Corellian Trilogy by Roger MacBride Allen. I never read any of the New Jedi Order stuff or Young Jedi books.

[Staff Sergeant]

I liked the series where Luke set up a temple and trained new Jedi, and the Emporer was either still alive as a clone or his elite guards were pretending he was still alive (never could tell which was the truth).

[MattKeil]

So far as it stands, the best Star Wars stories remains in the games of the extended universe, where George Lucas remains as a cursory advisor rather than an active creative role.

Jedi Knight
KOTOR
SW: TFU
TIE Fighter.


Oh, c'mon. KotOR and TFU maybe in terms of the potential they would have were someone to make a movie out of them, but no piece of storytelling in any Star Wars continuity matches the original trilogy. Half the reason the games you list "feel like Star Wars" is because they're some of the few pieces of EU material that remembered Star Wars is fantasy, not sci-fi. I realize the prequels soured a lot of adults on Star Wars films in general, but let's not go bonkers here.

With the exception of Michael Stackpole's Rogue Squadron books, I prefer to ignore every single post-RotJ EU story ever written.

[RickH]

With regard to Starkiller being more powerful than any Jedi ever depicted in the flicks, I just sort of turn a blind eye to it and assume that Luke and Obi-Wan could've done the same, but it just wasn't showed.

Because there were so few Jedi left, there was more Force to go around.

Where's my no-prize?

[Neopythia]

My biggest complaint about the Star Wars canon these days is that it has been completely taken over by Jedi. When I was growing up the most popular character was Han Solo, but his kind doesn't have a place in the new galaxy.

As the stories progress, power creep sets in and you have über powerful characters like Starkiller or what Jacen Solo becomes. Jedi have turned into diety type figures and the stories suffer for it. As the Jedi get more powerful increasingly more absurd foes and devices appear.

As for TFU, I see the gameplay as seperate from the cutscenes. Although I don't quite understand how Starkiller survives the vacuum of space.

[MSUSteve]

Because there were so few Jedi left, there was more Force to go around.

Where's my no-prize?
HA HA! That is awesome. I'm adopting that as my explanation.

[zengonzo]

Although I don't quite understand how Starkiller survives the vacuum of space.

Midichlorians.

[MSUSteve]

Midichlorians.
But Master zen, I've been wondering. What are midichlorians?

[Balasarius]

As for TFU, I see the gameplay as seperate from the cutscenes. Although I don't quite understand how Starkiller survives the vacuum of space.

Probably for the same reason there's sound in space.

Space Opera.

[zengonzo]

What are midichlorians?

What Jedi use to keep their pools clean.

[MattKeil]

My biggest complaint about the Star Wars canon these days is that it has been completely taken over by Jedi. When I was growing up the most popular character was Han Solo, but his kind doesn't have a place in the new galaxy.

This is very true. I still believe the prequels needed a Han Solo equivalent. Anakin needed a street smart smuggler/underworld friend who could be the audience touchstone that Solo was. Han helped ground the OT in a way, occasionally looking around and saying, "What the hell is even going on here?"


As the stories progress, power creep sets in and you have über powerful characters like Starkiller or what Jacen Solo becomes. Jedi have turned into diety type figures and the stories suffer for it. As the Jedi get more powerful increasingly more absurd foes and devices appear.

I'm still waiting for an official explanation of how the Jedi could have become a semi-mythological concept within 20 years. Force users and Force sensitives and Jedi feats seem commonplace enough that Han's skepticism in Episode IV is rather odd now. Hell, didn't Chewbacca ever tell him about the time he fought battle droid armies alongside Yoda and the other Jedi? Seems like a pretty good tale to tell over a beer.

[zengonzo]

Truth is, Han never understood a word Chewie said. He was just too embarrassed to admit it, and Chewbacca was too polite to make an issue of it.

[Staff Sergeant]

Maybe due to the oppressive nature of the Empire, the thought of a single man that could take down legions of stormtroopers or challenge Darth Vader and the Emporer just seemed impossible.

The point about Chewbacca having been present for both trilogies is something I can't rationally explain so I choose not to listen.

LA LA LA I CANT HEAR YOU THE CONTINUITY OF STAR WARS IS PERFECT

[Jakub]

A name like Starkiller? Seriously?

I'm so glad I stopped after Zahn's fifth book and didn't pick up any others.

[Eric T Cheng]

"Starkiller" was just the codename for The Apprentice (aka Galen Marek). The name's just a tip of the hat to Luke Skywalker's original surname in the early drafts of Star Wars.

[Eric T Cheng]

I watched the in-game cinematics on YouTube last night and I really enjoyed the quality. The facial animations didn't seem lifeless like in many games. I also appreciate the fact that the player has somewhat control over the epic boss battles in the way of QTE, unlike Metal Gear Solid 4.

The lack of save anywhere pissed me off. I had rented the game but I got as far as the junk planet where I had to destroy an gun turret of a crashed corvette. I fighting all the alien scavengers and droids very annoying. When I had finally killed all the aliens and droids and destroyed the gun turret, I had like 10% health, only to die when I made my way back and got scolded to death by dripping molten metal...

[Mike O'Malley]

What did you do to piss off the metal?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Staff Sergeant]

No one can destroy the metal. The metal will strike you down with a vicious blow.

[zengonzo]

Funny, I had a serious problem with that level, too. I think I'd gotten to the point where I was tired of dinking around with enemies, and was just trying to get through the level.

And for whatever reason I'd formed the opinion that these robot guys were just going to continuously emerge from the ground as I'd beat them - had no conception that there was a set limit.

So it'd seemed to me like I had to do take care of that whatever in order to defeat them - which was pretty difficult as they wail on you pretty hard while you're trying to lift up that whatever and get to the other whatever.

Then, yeah, not being able to regenerate health leads to some crappy situations - where you either choose to throw yourself to your death and get sent back to the last checkpoint, or slink around like a cowardly fiend in the hopes of finding an easy kill.

[Pogue Mahone]

All right, so I did actually end up buying the game, but haven't played it yet. From reading everyone's experiences though it sounds like I may want to start on the easiest difficulty level? I don't have the fastest reflexes in the west and dying-and-replaying-dozens-of-times style is not my favorite way to get through a game. I'll take the hit against my hardcore gamer cred, such as it is.

[zengonzo]

I'd actually considered that for quite a bit at first. And I ended up picking the middleweight because I wanted to make the experience more interesting.

At first, it was. I'd say I have reasonable action game reflexes, but that doesn't always save you. Sometimes when you get piled-on you are just done for.

You can actually switch difficulty levels mid-game, so don't worry about your choice too much. I knocked mine down to easy, and found that the fights were easier, but still ended up facing inevitable deaths.

[Bahimiron]

The easiest mode is actually too easy. It gets boring quickly, cos you dispatch the baddies so fast there's no need to bust out your more awesome moves. On the other hand, the harder modes are more challenging and offer more fun, but then will occasionally have levels or situations where you find yourself wanting to smash your controller against the wall and run out into the street to eat a baby. Fortunately, you can change the difficulty on the fly. It just robs you of level completion achievements.

[Neopythia]

Normal difficulty isn't that hard. There are a few tough moments that can take a few attempts, but overall it should be managable. I hardly have great reflexes and Im terrible with combos and normal was fine for me. Your mightiest foe will be the targeting system.

[J. Matthew Zoss]

I'm going through it right now for the second time on the hardest difficulty, more out of lack of anything else to play than anything. It's pretty tough, but still easier than Ninja Gaiden on normal.

[MattKeil]

Looks like the game sold 1.5 million copies (http://kotaku.com/5053914/star-wars-the-force-unleashed-selling-by-the-bantha+load) across all platforms in a week, making it the fastest-selling Star Wars game of all time.

Further evidence that Star Wars is review-proof or that nobody listens to reviews anyway? You make the call.

[Menzo]

Or maybe proof of this - http://theslackerz.com/index.php?Page=94

[Staff Sergeant]

Oh man, that was great. We're looking at you, Tom! :angryface:

[MattKeil]

Pff. Let's see him do that "float soldier then hit him in midair with TIE Fighter" move in the actual game. If I worked my imagination that hard I could convince myself the game had good controls, too.

[Menzo]

That's strange - GamesRadar.com didn't seem to have any trouble.

Not that the game isn't without issues, but perhaps some things are getting a bit overblown?

http://www.gamesradar.com/video/v-200809111501373074

[MattKeil]

I put about 16 hours into TFU, and I'm pretty sure I could not do what was depicted in that comic without a whole lot of luck and do-overs. Then again, I interpret the comic as him using the Force to fling the fighter at the guy. What's shown in the Games Radar video is simple (and honestly not very interesting...holding a guy in the Death Star laser tube and letting him go so he has just enough time to realize what's about to happen to him is probably the coolest thing I did with Grip).

The Force Grip power is useful because there's so much shit lying around that whatever you grab is almost guaranteed to be as useful as a projectile as anything else. Trying to pick up specific objects is a losing proposition most of the time.

Hell, it took me almost three minutes to convince the game to let me grab hold of one of those metal sheets you have to bend down to shield yourself from the pouring molten steel on Raxus Prime, and that was very clearly the only thing the player would want to do in that situation. But it got fixated on the next sheet up and I had to twist the camera into gymnastic contortions to finally get it to acknowledge the object I was standing directly in front of.

I don't disagree with the comic that it's possible to have fun playing the game. I do disagree that the people who didn't have fun playing it are wrong.

[RickH]

That's strange - GamesRadar.com didn't seem to have any trouble.

Not that the game isn't without issues, but perhaps some things are getting a bit overblown?

I've been thinking that myself. I was able to use the force throws the way I wanted to more than 75% of the time, and a lot of the failures were my own carelessness with the stick position when I released the hold. Heck, there was so much assist that I was able to blind-throw around corners and still nail enemies.

My major gripe was the game's unwillingness to let me target things right next to me a lot of the time, either for zaps or grips. Once I got a grip on things, the throws seemed more than fair.

[zengonzo]

That was horrible even for a webcomic.

[Adam Sensoy]

Jesus christ that's a terrible comic.

[Bahimiron]

http://www.gamesradar.com/video/v-200809111501373074

Wow.

Nice, unbelievably grainy video.

Games Radar continues to prove that it excels at being the worst gaming website on the internet.

I look forward to them following their expected path with a video compilation of the top five racks from Star Wars games.

[playingwithknives]

I finished this last night. I'm glad I ignored all the negative reviews and opinions and bought it anyway as I loved it.

[MSUSteve]

Not that the game isn't without issues, but perhaps some things are getting a bit overblown?
By some perhaps, but I haven't read anything here that seems overblown. I know that personally, every time I consider playing the game I have to balance my expectation of fun with the expectation of massive frustration I'm sure to incur at least a few times during my play session. A perfect example is having to watch an unskippable cutscene over and over and over again after dying during a difficult portion. I simply cannot understand how something like that makes it into a game in 2008.

[Brendan]

A name like Starkiller? Seriously?

I'm so glad I stopped after Zahn's fifth book and didn't pick up any others.

Wasn't there a powerful character called Starkiller in KOTOR? Could he be a descendent? Have I officially geeked out?

Also, would this on a PC with normal keyboard/mouse style controls be a winner?

[Bahimiron]

Bendak Starkiller. He was the galaxy's best duelist. That is, 'til he met Jedi Revan.

[MattKeil]

Bendak Starkiller. He was the galaxy's best duelist. That is, 'til he met Jedi Revan.

I think this intro requires you to sing a song about it.

[Staff Sergeant]

Bendak Starkiller. He was the galaxy's best duelist. That is, 'til he met Jedi Revan.

I'm not sure if this was a joke or not, and I don't really care enough to try and find out.

[MattKeil]

What, you never played KotOR? It's no joke.

[Bahimiron]

I think this intro requires you to sing a song about it.

Listen children to my story, it was written a long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...

No. No, no, no.

[Zylon]

A name like Starkiller? Seriously?
Wait until the sequel comes out-- S.T.A.R.K.I.L.L.E.R.: Shadow of Coruscant.

[Staff Sergeant]

What, you never played KotOR? It's no joke.

I played it when it came out, sorry I don't a great memory for clearly non-main characters or don't replay it every year.

[MattKeil]

I could never forget a fight as cheap as the one against Bendak Starkiller.

[Staff Sergeant]

Wait until the sequel comes out-- S.T.A.R.K.I.L.L.E.R.: Shadow of Coruscant.

Bravo.


I could never forget a fight as cheap as the one against Bendak Starkiller.

Why was it cheap?

[MattKeil]

Why was it cheap?

He was a lot more powerful than any of the other participants in the arena, and always felt way out of proportion to the rest of that sidequest. The damage he did was almost arbitrary. I think he became inaccessible if you waited too long and left the planet at the wrong point, but I haven't played the game in years. Also, he was a dick.

He did have some sweet gold armor, though.

[Sol Invictus]

Bendak was a bitch to fight. It really surprised me the first time I went up against him (I played through KOTOR multiple times) because he was just that much stronger than all the other contestants before him.

[Bahimiron]

I used Bendak's blaster 'til I finally got a lightsaber, though. Then gave it to Carth.

[MattKeil]

I generally put everything into melee anyway, so I used swords almost exclusively until getting the saber. Bendak's blaster does make Carth about 10 times more useful.

[Bahimiron]

I didn't really plan out my character first time through very well.

Second time through I pretty much designed my feats around maximum usefulness for when I finally got my lightsaber.

[theborbes]

This game is close to being the biggest disappointment of the year for me, second only to Too Human. Right now I'm convinced that everyone who completes this game is a star wars fanboy because blind love is the only thing that could propel you through this game.

[Staff Sergeant]

And Mr. Buzzkill brought the conversation back to the worse game.

[MattKeil]

Well, KotOR wasn't free of bugs, either. One time I had a conversation on the Ebon Hawk with Carth and his entire face and skull were missing. It was just hair, two floating eyeballs, and horrifying chattering teeth with a tongue hanging in midair. It was traumatizing.

[Anders Hallin]

No wonder his wife sought death.

[zengonzo]

I just now finished it .. And all things considered, I'm glad I did.

I must've been doing something wrong, because it took me close to ten **** to pull that **** ********* down. It was pretty *********.

By contrast, the ****** and ********* fights were much easier.

And **********, at the **** *** - fucking ****** ***** *********, was pretty damned ***.

[Bahimiron]

...so this is the Force Unleashed spoilers thread now?

[Staff Sergeant]

Yeah, where's the complaint PM's and adminstrative intervention? Shit went down when I spoiled Bioshock like a month ago, and this came out like last week.

[zengonzo]

Hasn't everyone already watched them on YouTube?

Actually, you can see the scene in the demo clip that runs from the main menu, as it just came on.

Apologies, in any case.

[theborbes]

I hope I was the mr. buzzkill you mentioned.

Did anyone else need to take a minute when the random teleporting robots arrived in level 3? They're basically smudges of colour; where are the details? Robots in the Star Wars universe always have such personality... these things are like a bunch of shapes in a humanoid form. Also, since when did teleportation become common in Star Wars?

Instead of crafting some interesting enemies for me to cut down I get this... Bantha fodder.

[Staff Sergeant]

I hope I was the mr. buzzkill you mentioned.

You were indeed.

[MattKeil]

I hope I was the mr. buzzkill you mentioned.

Did anyone else need to take a minute when the random teleporting robots arrived in level 3? They're basically smudges of colour; where are the details? Robots in the Star Wars universe always have such personality... these things are like a bunch of shapes in a humanoid form. Also, since when did teleportation become common in Star Wars?

Instead of crafting some interesting enemies for me to cut down I get this... Bantha fodder.

Well, they're not teleporting, they're assembling out of the surrounding junk. And they're kind of formless because Kazdan is controlling them remotely with the Force (which is why they glow with the Force aura). All the junk droids on Raxus Prime are products of Kazdan's madness.

[Staff Sergeant]

Well, they're not teleporting, they're assembling out of the surrounding junk. And they're kind of formless because Kazdan is controlling them remotely with the Force (which is why they glow with the Force aura). All the junk droids on Raxus Prime are products of Kazdan's madness.

As it turns out, this is the SW:TFU spoilers thread!

[MattKeil]

It's level three, dude. It's not like I laid out the final cutscene or anything. Of course, that would have been redundant, thanks to zengonzo. Additionally, that explanation is never put forth in the game, it's simply inferred by the player via observation.

So yeah, go soak your head.

[Staff Sergeant]

It's level three, dude. It's not like I laid out the final cutscene or anything. Of course, that would have been redundant, thanks to zengonzo. Additionally, that explanation is never put forth in the game, it's simply inferred by the player via observation.

So yeah, go soak your head.

Hahaha burn.

EDIT: Nevermind, what is wrong with my eyes?

[zengonzo]

I'd figured we were all over it. Wasn't very long. But, yeah, my bad.

[Brendan]

Ok, not to harp on or anything but "would this on a PC with normal keyboard/mouse style controls be a winner?"

[MattKeil]

No. No, it would not.

[intruder]

Actually it's kind of fun on the PSP for one romp through.
The levels themselves are kinda dull but the boss fights are cool imo.
Story is ok so far (just cleared the temple boss fight).

Raping some Jedi with my Force powers is fun especially since I don't like the Jedis in Episode 1-3 (tree-hugging pussies)!

Not too unhappy that this is not on PC since the game has no lasting power to me.

[MSUSteve]

Speaking of bugs, in the boss fight on Felucia (I hope that's not a spoiler) I was able to send the boss off the edge of the fighting area within about 30 seconds and she was unable to get back up. This triggered her death and the final cutscene without even getting to the multiple stages of the boss fight itself. I was actually kind of relieved.

[Rob_Merritt]

Ok, not to harp on or anything but "would this on a PC with normal keyboard/mouse style controls be a winner?"

If it was on pc, it probably would be a gamepad game still.

[MSUSteve]

With regard to mouse and keyboard control of The Force Unleashed, the only benefit I can see from that would be to include a targeting reticle to indicate exactly what Starkiller is looking at. This would hopefully get rid of the targeting problems in the console version.

[zengonzo]

And I suppose that would require the targeting to be based on where the camera is looking, and not Starkiller - which would probably be a major improvement on its own.

[MSUSteve]

And I suppose that would require the targeting to be based on where the camera is looking, and not Starkiller - which would probably be a major improvement on its own.
Sure. Or remapping the control to be essentially FPS style mouse/keyboard controls, meaning that where the reticle is would be where Starkiller is looking/facing.

[zengonzo]

I'd like to see a greater number of games include options for camera customization.

[MSUSteve]

I'd like to see a greater number of games include options for camera customization.
Indeed. Hell, adding in an option for dual stick FPS style control (along with a small reticle) to the console version could've worked. I think Ratchet & Clank games include that option along with more conventional third person action game controls.

[Bahimiron]

It's unlikely that a PC version would have aiming based on where the camera is looking rather than where Starkiller is looking. If they wanted to do that, they could have done the exact same thing with the console version. Having a mouse might offer more precise camera control, but the right stick still controls the camera no matter what. They chose to base the targeting off of something completely different. Why fix it for a PC version?

[MSUSteve]

It's unlikely that a PC version would have aiming based on where the camera is looking rather than where Starkiller is looking. If they wanted to do that, they could have done the exact same thing with the console version. Having a mouse might offer more precise camera control, but the right stick still controls the camera no matter what. They chose to base the targeting off of something completely different. Why fix it for a PC version?
Because the way they did it has been universally derided. Also, I don't think it's unprecedented that PC versions of console games have gotten the controls changed/tightened up. But I see your point. If they didn't go with the reticle aiming controls before, there is nothing to suggest they would for a PC port.

[Bahimiron]

Also, I don't think it's unprecedented that PC versions of console games have gotten the controls changed/tightened up.

These days, I think that the PC Game Improves Control/Interface Issues From The Console Version games are far fewer in number than the PC Games Leave In The Same Shitty Problems And Maybe Even Introduce Entirely New Problems games. See also: Mass Effect, Viva Pinata, Gears of War.

[Staff Sergeant]

Whoa, what? What problems did PC Mass Effect introduce, other than DRM (which isn't a gameplay problem)? I was under the impression that PC Mass Effect was much superior to X360 Mass Effect.

[MSUSteve]

These days, I think that the PC Game Improves Control/Interface Issues From The Console Version games are far fewer in number than the PC Games Leave In The Same Shitty Problems And Maybe Even Introduce Entirely New Problems games. See also: Mass Effect, Viva Pinata, Gears of War.
Regardless, I think that an FPS style control scheme would work great in The Force Unleashed, like it did in Ratchet & Clank.

[Bahimiron]

...like it did in Ratchet & Clank.

Which was on a console.

I get what you're saying, I just really think that the problem with aiming is inherent to the controls, not to the controller. It was a conscious choice to include this broken setup with the consoles, so I just can't see them fixing it for the PC.


What problems did PC Mass Effect introduce

It didn't introduce any problems that I know of. It didn't fix the much, much, much maligned inventory system, though.

[MSUSteve]

Which was on a console.

I get what you're saying, I just really think that the problem with aiming is inherent to the controls, not to the controller. It was a conscious choice to include this broken setup with the consoles, so I just can't see them fixing it for the PC.
I just thought Ratchet was a good example of a third person actioner with FPS style controls. I didn't mean to imply it had anything to do with porting TFU to the PC.

[Bahimiron]

I know, I got what you were saying.

There're lots of examples of good third person controls on the consoles, really. Gears of War. GTA4. Mercenaries 2.

What they have in common is that your character fires his gun based on where the camera is aimed, not based on which direction he happens to be facing in.

Whoever made this decision at Lucasarts saw all of that and thought to themselves 'no, what we've got here is pure magic!', ignored established controller setups, defied convention and ran with what we eventually got.

[MSUSteve]

Whoever made this decision at Lucasarts saw all of that and thought to themselves 'no, what we've got here is pure magic!', ignored established controller setups, defied convention and ran with what we eventually got.
I think it was a case of sort of blindly following God of War, et. al without consideration of a more precise schemed. What's mystifying about the decision is how clear it is, at least to me, that being able to specifically target things is really important when using the various Force powers and the lack of ability to do so is a massive detriment to the game.

[wigglestick]

Whoever made this decision at Lucasarts saw all of that and thought to themselves 'no, what we've got here is pure magic!', ignored established controller setups, defied convention and ran with what we eventually got.

Somebody else did this rather recently, didn't they? I just call quite recall who...

[MSUSteve]

Somebody else did this rather recently, didn't they? I just call quite recall who...
I actually liked Too Human's control setup, except that the targeting was finicky at times. I still find TFU's targeting more irritating.

[zengonzo]

I hadn't considered it myself (mostly because I didn't play much of it), but God of War is probably the best guess at mechanical inspiration.

Which also clears up why I'd perceived this as carrying over a feeling of the previous generation.

[zengonzo]

I actually liked Too Human's control setup, except that the targeting was finicky at times. I still find TFU's targeting more irritating.

I'd say largely because Too Human's targeting was mostly arbitrary, while TFU's is vital.

[MSUSteve]

I hadn't considered it myself (mostly because I didn't play much of it), but God of War is probably the best guess at mechanical inspiration.

Which also clears up why I'd perceived this as carrying over a feeling of the previous generation.
Most definitely. The problem, as we've said, is that TFU's targeting is vital to its gameplay whereas in God of War, it's not. Moreover, GoW has fixed camera angles and doesn't rely on any sort of ranged attacking, neither of which applies to TFU. So yeah, as usual, I agree with you zen. The devs took the wrong control scheme model for TFU when they looked at GoW for inspiration instead of R&C.

[Bahimiron]

I didn't really mind Too Human's control setup. Too Human's problem was just more in execution and repetition.