Biden says he's not the guy

[JeffL]

As Biden drove away from reporters this afternoon he told them "I'm not the pick" or something to that effect.

I would have bet on Biden - he adds the type of senior adviser weight that Obama could use, especially with things getting hot with Russia. He could be the Michael Caine Alfred to Obama's Batman.

I'm hearing scary talk today about Sibelius, the governor of Kansas - she'd be a horrible pick. No experience adder, poor public speaker, piss off the women who supported Hillary that he picked a different woman, and more. Sibelius and Obama could be easily framed by the opposing campaign as two lightweights in a very dangerous and complex world.

[Dirt]

Sibelius has a very good economic record as Governor of Kansas. The economy is what's on everybody's mind. She's been my pick for VP since Hillary got out of running for the Democrat's nominee and it seemed to me that Obama would like her because she is a Democrat with conversative ideas. She's pro-life and pro-guns. It fits in with his message and counter-balances his perceived ideals.

[JeffL]

Sibelius has a very good economic record as Governor of Kansas. The economy is what's on everybody's mind. She's been my pick for VP since Hillary got out of running for the Democrat's nominee and it seemed to me that Obama would like her because she is a Democrat with conversative ideas. She's pro-life and pro-guns. It fits in with his message and counter-balances his perceived ideals.

Well, living in her area, most people here think she's been kind of a caretaker - nobody can point to anything she's actually done. I'm including her supporters in Kansas. Been listening on the radio here - the main praise is "well, she a nice enough person, and she hasn't really screwed anything up, because she really has pushed anything."

[Gabe Lewis]

Him saying he's not the guy doesn't mean all that much. From what I've read nobody knows whether or not they are the guy yet.

He could very well be the guy and just not know that he's the guy.

What a guy.

[Talisker]

Him saying he's not the guy doesn't mean all that much. From what I've read nobody knows whether or not they are the guy yet.

He could very well be the guy and just not know that he's the guy.

What a guy.
My Dad's middle name is Guy (for that matter, his dad married a Guy, back in the twenties).

[ravenight]

Well of course he isn't the gay. That'd be a lot of pressure being the gay.

[theblackw0lf]

Sibelius fits in with Obama's postpartisan philosophy more than any other potential VP pick (somewhat surprisingly, Bayh fits in there as well). Considering that Obama views his presidency as a way of helping to reduce the divisiveness that has plagued Washington, he would see Sibelius as a valuable ally.

Biden might be a bit to acerbic to fit in with that philosophy. Sure it works well in the campaign, but I think how the pick will affect his governance is far more important than how it helps his campaign.

[Gabe Lewis]

Well of course he isn't the gay. That'd be a lot of pressure being the gay.

That was the joke that almost made sense everybody. Give him a round of applause.

[bago]

Well, I'm not your guy, buddy!

[malphigian]

I like Biden, but he's got 3 major flaws: He's from Delaware, he's got a massive senate record which means he can be covered in inane "flip-flop" accusations, and, most importantly, he constantly puts his foot in his mouth. That said, he is interesting to watch and definitely is the most informed of the potential picks.

I think you might be underselling Sebelius. I agree with you she brings nothing to the foreign policy front, but I don't know that that is going to be the key issue. Here's what she has going for her as far as I can tell:
-Popular gov from a red state and daughter of a popular Ohio gov
-Has a track record of effectively working with republicans
-By all accounts done good job with the Kansas budget
-She done real work for alternative energy (tripled wind power in KS) , which might actually influence independent voters this year. Of course, they might also hate her stopping coal plants, so who knows.
-She's a catholic
-She's pro-choice but also pro-gun (I don't know what Dirt is talking about)
I don't know, she's not perfect, and her speaking style is downright dull, but are the alternatives better?

Personally, I'm not crazy about any of the people in the Obama VP shortlist, and I'm really torn about which one is best of them.

[Gabe Lewis]

Also Biden can be an attack dog in a way Obama can't. At first I thought this was a bit of a misfire of a choice.
But the more I think about it the more sense it makes. At least he won't put the country to sleep like Bayh or Kaine will. I'm still in favor of Clark and thought thats what Kerry should have gone with.

[Coca Cola Zero]

Well, I'm not your guy, buddy!

Well I'm not your buddy, friend!

[JeffL]

If Obama plays this right he'll get two full weeks of non-stop coverage. ;)

[Gabe Lewis]

CBS (http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/08/19/politics/horserace/entry4364243.shtml?CMP=OTC-RSSFeed&source=RSS&attr=Horserace_4364243) says we'll know by Friday afternoon. Good for them i guess.

[ExecutionerFive]

I have a sinking feeling in my heart we're getting a last-second swerve here.

It's Hillary.

Fuck.

[Gordon Cameron]

What I like about Biden is he seems actually to be talking rather than being stuck behind a politician shroud. Very few other politicians give me that impression. Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2, and Obama don't. Cuomo did. It doesn't necessarily translate to good leadership, but it does tend to make me like the person more.

[Tankero]

I have a sinking feeling in my heart we're getting a last-second swerve here.

It's Hillary.

Fuck.

We're all on the edge of our seats, waiting with baited breath to see just how the democrats are going to fuck this one up.

We know they will, but like Klaus revenge, all we know is that it will be awful.
http://blog.peta2.com/klausthefish.PNG

[JeffL]

I have had this sinking feeling that Obama is wanting to pull off a surprise and pick Hillary. I don't believe it, but I'm afraid of it. I could just see him picking her, then a big love in where she's nominated and gets all those votes, and the two of them celebrate all of the convention votes the two of them have garnered.

The only thing that gives me hope that it won't happen - I've heard that Obama absolutely, positively, in no way wants Bill Clinton roaming the halls of his White House.

[Dirt]

Some polls show McCain as creeping up on Obama. Partly because of McCain's attack on Obama. Obama doesn't hit back very hard. Hillary can bite.

[Sarkus]

Obama and McCain should nominate each other as their vice presidents. Thus, Obama would be Obama/McCain and McCain would be McCain/Obama.

Since that was how the founding fathers wrote things originally, no one could complain.

(Though they still would.)

:-)

[CSL]

Obama and McCain should nominate each other as their vice presidents. Thus, Obama would be Obama/McCain and McCain would be McCain/Obama.

Since that was how the founding fathers wrote things originally, no one could complain.

(Though they still would.)

:-)

John Adams might have something to say about how bad that idea went over.

[dashingly]

John Adams might have something to say about how bad that idea went over.Obama/Adams - that is fucking left-field!

"Well, I have summoned, literally, a man with more than two hundred years of experience."

[bago]

I knew Obama was raking in the dead presidents, but DAAAMN!

[dashingly]

I knew Obama was raking in the dead presidents, but DAAAMN!"We need to bring ethereal post-partisanship to the Earth!"

[wildpokerman]

Well, living in her area, most people here think she's been kind of a caretaker - nobody can point to anything she's actually done. I'm including her supporters in Kansas. Been listening on the radio here - the main praise is "well, she a nice enough person, and she hasn't really screwed anything up, because she really has pushed anything."

Hey in politics lately not screwing anything up is a win.

Flat is the new up.

http://www.slate.com/id/2195470/

[Bahimiron]

I have a sinking feeling in my heart we're getting a last-second swerve here.

Swerve?

What an odd choice of words...

Oh god.

It's gonna be Triple-H, isn't it?

[Jason McCullough]

I keep reading the title to this thread as "Biden says he's not the gay".

I have no damn idea who Obama's VP choice is, he's been fucking with our heads on this for months. It just better not be Nunn or I will personally resurrect LBJ from the dead (http://fafblog.blogspot.com/2008/08/veepstakes-2008-race-to-morbidity.html) to run a spoiler third-party candidate. No really (http://fafblog.blogspot.com/2008/07/veepstakes-2008-turgid-for-change.html).

[bago]

PUMA.

[Marged]

Nunn hasn't been vetted, as I recall.

I love Sebelius - people in Kansas who think she's just been a caretaker haven't been paying attention. I'd be really excited about her. And I like Tim Kaine. As for DE being the Biden drawback - I think it's pretty clear that Obama is focusing less on a helpful state and more on a pick that will reinforce his messaging.

[Rightbug]

Everything I'm hearing says it Bayh.

[Marged]

She [Sebelius] and moderate Republicans in the overwhelmingly Republican Legislature have worked together under pressure from the courts to resolve a school financing crisis. She has also earned points as fiscally responsible: Facing a budget shortfall at the onset of her first term, she imposed broad efficiency measures that, by her office’s measure, saved $1 billion. Among other steps, she called for what was apparently the first accounting of the number of cars in the state fleet, then sold hundreds of them.



She's so awesome. But this kinda thing makes me want to throttle Hillary supporters:

And while choosing a woman might appeal to some Democrats disaffected by Mr. Obama’s primary battle with Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, it might just as easily offend those Clinton supporters who see Ms. Sebelius as a less qualified substitute.

I just can't get over the degree to which Hillary supporters were conned. Sebelius has experience in State government that goes back to the 80's. Being a spouse != having the job.

Sebelius is also another great example of a good governor who's going to be forced out by idiotic term limit laws.

[arctangent]

Breaking news: Obama's VP pick will be Tenzin Gyatso! That's right, the Obama campaign will soon announce the Obama/Lama ticket.

In other news, the Democratic Convention will be catered by Interstate Bakeries Corporation, who will serve Hostess Ding-Dongs while the Edsels (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W54ehlomu48) entertain the delegates.

[JeffL]

You know what's funny - every campaign, around the time that the presidential candidates are picking their VPs, there's huge amounts of analysis on what each candidate would bring, etc.

And then they never make one whit of a difference. Either to the winning of states or to the actual presidency. One can argue that Cheney is, by far, the exception. But LBJ had no say in JFK's presidency, then there's Agnew, Ford, Mondale, Gore, etc.

[Dirt]

Bayh co-sponsored the resolution to attack Iraq. I seriously doubt he'd be the pick.

[jeffd]

The older Jeff is correct - up until recently the VP has been a largely ceremonial position. Gore was the first reversal to the trend (he was given real policy input in the Clinton administration), and of course then there's Cheney.

One thing folks gloss over (and that Marc Ambinder likes to point out) is the question of whether or not Barack Obama likes and trusts his VP nominee. Kerry's apparently said to Obama that choosing Edwards was a mistake; he was hoping campaigning together would build that trust and it didn't happen and that was detrimental to their campaign.

Obama both likes and trusts Sebelius. Furthermore, I'm convinced that a lot of the speculation has been fueled by the campaign itself. A few weeks ago it was Bayh, last week it was Biden, etc. Sebelius has never had that level of speculation directed at her, and she was vetted. At this point, if I had to put money on it, I'd put it on Sebelius.

[Dirt]

Plus, she's a woman. Which will help bring women voters that supported Hillary to vote Obama.

[StGabe]

Obama both likes and trusts Sebelius. Furthermore, I'm convinced that a lot of the speculation has been fueled by the campaign itself. A few weeks ago it was Bayh, last week it was Biden, etc. Sebelius has never had that level of speculation directed at her, and she was vetted. At this point, if I had to put money on it, I'd put it on Sebelius.

As strange as I find it to have to agree with Dirt, I hope you're right. I'm a bit concerned with her speaking ability but of all the VP hopefuls people have floated I think she's by far the most promising. She, like Obama, seems like a really intelligent, competent person who tries to understand her opposition, and even work with them, in order to create change.

[Anders Hallin]

She's so awesome. But this kinda thing makes me want to throttle Hillary supporters:



I just can't get over the degree to which Hillary supporters were conned.
"Hillary supporters" were almost as many as "Obama supporters" during the primaries. I rather think you are generalising a tad too much based on a very small sample.

[extarbags]

Ah, for sure. I suppose I meant the 25-30% of her supporters who are in the never say die category and are polling for McCain.

[JeffL]

The older Jeff is correct - up until recently the VP has been a largely ceremonial position. Gore was the first reversal to the trend (he was given real policy input in the Clinton administration), and of course then there's Cheney.

One thing folks gloss over (and that Marc Ambinder likes to point out) is the question of whether or not Barack Obama likes and trusts his VP nominee. Kerry's apparently said to Obama that choosing Edwards was a mistake; he was hoping campaigning together would build that trust and it didn't happen and that was detrimental to their campaign.

Obama both likes and trusts Sebelius. Furthermore, I'm convinced that a lot of the speculation has been fueled by the campaign itself. A few weeks ago it was Bayh, last week it was Biden, etc. Sebelius has never had that level of speculation directed at her, and she was vetted. At this point, if I had to put money on it, I'd put it on Sebelius.

"The older Jeff????" LOL! ;)

As others have mentioned, it is often the role of the VP candidate to play attack dog. Hard to see Sebalius in that role.

I'm still thinking Biden, if for no other reason than I like my Biden/Obama parallel to Alfred (Michael Caine)/Batman (Christian Bale.)

[BlueJackalope]

Ah, for sure. I suppose I meant the 25-30% of her supporters who are in the never say die category and are polling for McCain.

28% don't support Obama of those 18% say they'll vote McCain, 6% say they won't vote for a major party candidate.

[Unicorn McGriddle]

"The older Jeff????"

But not the oldest Jeff. I think we all know which Jeff that is.

[extarbags]

Ah, for sure. I suppose I meant the 25-30% of her supporters who are in the never say die category and are polling for McCain.

Why would I say this?

[Marged]

Aw crap, you have to log out when you're not using the computer!

[Phil_Stein]

But LBJ had no say in JFK's presidency, then there's Agnew, Ford, Mondale, Gore, etc.

Err, but LBJ became president.

Agnew damaged Nixon's presidency.

Ford was never on the ballot as VP.

Gore and Mondale both became their party's nominee for president.

From that same era (LBJ-forward), we also have Humphrey, Dole (both became party nominees for president) and George Bush senior (became president). We also have a few folks who didn't go on to particularly notable roles. But certainly, those who get on a major party ticket as VP nominee have at least a fair chance of a major role on the national scene thereafter.

[JeffL]

Phil, you're correct, the most significant part of being VP is that it gives you much better odds of being the party Presidential nominee when the sitting president is done. However, they tend to have almost nil impact when in office.

[wildpokerman]

Phil, you're correct, the most significant part of being VP is that it gives you much better odds of being the party Presidential nominee when the sitting president is done. However, they tend to have almost nil impact when in office.

Once in a while they get to drop atomic bombs though.

[CSL]

Once in a while they get to drop atomic bombs though.

Jeff was referring to Vice Presidents have near nil impact. Truman can't count because he was President when he dropped the bombs. I mean besides Adams, Jefferson, and Cheney who has?

[wildpokerman]

Jeff was referring to Vice Presidents have near nil impact. Truman can't count because he was President when he dropped the bombs. I mean besides Adams, Jefferson, and Cheney who has?

My point is that the most significant part of being vice president is that you may actually become president so it's worth paying attention to, especially when one of the candidates is in his 70s and has already had cancer.

[jeffd]

For what it's worth, when FDR was elected to his fourth term everyone in the Democratic party knew that he'd die within his first year. Truman was basically chosen as a stealthy presidentical candidate in 1944.

[Qenan]

You have a link for that? Because I'd never heard that claimed before.

[Robert Sharp]

I have, actually. He was in poor health, and it was pretty clear he would not live out his entire term. The American people didn't know how bad it was though, for the most part. So it didn't affect FDR's chances of winning.

[Jason McCullough]

David McCullough (no relation) documents pretty well that everyone in DC knew FDR would die (http://www.amazon.com/Truman-David-McCullough/dp/0671869205) in his Truman biography.