what would you do if war came to america?

[Cubit]

The recent Russian invasion/conflict in Georgia has got me thinking, what would I do if the u.s. was invaded or war somehow came to this country? I don't think its a stretch to say that something crazy like that could happen within our lifetimes. With large powerful countries, peace seems to be the exception rather than the norm.

I guess I'd probably drop everything and get with my family and close friends. Maybe form some type of militia? Who knows depending on the size of the conflict.

What about you?

[JPR]

Move to West-Helena, Arkansas where it's safe (they have laser sights!).

[Ed Solomon]

The recent Russian invasion/conflict in Georgia has got me thinking, what would I do if the u.s. was invaded or war somehow came to this country? I don't think its a stretch to say that something crazy like that could happen within our lifetimes.

I guess I'd probably drop everything and get with my family and close friends. Maybe form some type of militia? Who knows depending on the size of the conflict.

What about you?

Then you should probably seek counseling. We are surrounded by two oceans and two friendly neighbors. Who the hell do you think is going to invade us and how?

[Gordon Cameron]

Flee somewhere.

[Cubit]

Move to West-Helena, Arkansas where it's safe (they have laser sights!).

haha, yeah. rural indiana doesn't provide as much terrain cover, but its wide open and allows you to move quickly

[Andrew Mayer]

I guess I'd probably drop everything and get with my family and close friends. Maybe form some type of militia? Who knows depending on the size of the conflict.

So, your question is "what if?", and your answer is "who knows?"

Awesome.

[Ed Solomon]

So, your question is "what if?", and your answer is "who knows?"

Awesome.

Fucking A. It's a stupid question, Cubit, and if you answer isn't to run around yelling "Wolverines!" this board has nothing further to say to you.

[Cubit]

So, your question is "what if?", and your answer is "who knows?"

Awesome.

well, i don't have a bunker stocked with supplies beneath my desk chair right now, so "who knows" is a good answer :)

[Aeon221]

I would cover my doors and windows in feces in order to prevent looting.

[Gordon Cameron]

Fucking A. It's a stupid question, Cubit, and if you answer isn't to run around yelling "Wolverines!" this board has nothing further to say to you.

I love a random pile-on in the morning. Smells like... Quarter to Three.

[Lum]

There is this branch of our military you may have heard of called the US Navy.

The US Navy has what are called carrier strike groups (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrier_battle_group#The_U.S._Navy_carrier_strike_ group). Each CSG could defeat almost any navy in the world (it may have some problems defeating the Royal Navy or the French Navy by itself).

The US Navy has 10 of them.

An invasion of America in the next 50 years is.... unlikely.

[Ed Solomon]

I love a random pile-on in the morning. Smells like... Quarter to Three.

Random, my friend? Random? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_I4WgBfETc)

And until you apologize to Patrick Swayze, the board had nothing to say to you either.

[wahoo]

Band together with my little brother and some friends from high school to form a guerrilla group to avenge the death of our parents. I'd also make sure to shoot someone in the back before talking to them.

[Enidigm]

Band together with my little brother and some friends from high school to form a guerrilla group to avenge the death of our parents. I'd also make sure to shoot someone in the back before talking to them.

Remember we could recover in only 100 years of current GDP with the proper planning. A ratio of 10 females to each male sounds about right. Be sure to save the cheerleaders!

[Bahimiron]

I've trained for situations like this. I beat Freedom Fighters and I finished the Turning Point: Fall of Liberty demo.

[idrisz]

I've trained for situations like this. I beat Freedom Fighters and I finished the Turning Point: Fall of Liberty demo.

So you endure the unendurable??

[triggercut]

The recent Russian invasion/conflict in Georgia has got me thinking, what would I do if the u.s. was invaded or war somehow came to this country? I don't think its a stretch to say that something crazy like that could happen within our lifetimes. With large powerful countries, peace seems to be the exception rather than the norm.

I guess I'd probably drop everything and get with my family and close friends. Maybe form some type of militia? Who knows depending on the size of the conflict.

What about you?

This is one of the stupidest questions I've ever seen in a forum that occasionally has some really stupid questions posed on it.

Take your meds.

[Bahimiron]

So you endure the unendurable??

I'm no hero.

Some people actually played the full game.

[Drastic]

I think a successful invasion of the US would eventually fail because, for all their vast cold intellect, the Martians would fail to take into account the smallest creatures that God in His wisdom has placed upon this Earth.

Then, after the great die-off, we'd have a lot of tripods with heat rays to play with, and that'd be pretty cool.

[Cubit]

This is one of the stupidest questions I've ever seen in a forum that occasionally has some really stupid questions posed on it.

Take your meds.

How is this a stupid question? (oh yeah, america will be around forever! how could i forget?) Unless world peace comes tomorrow, the US is not always gonna be a prosperous little bubble. Who would have thought 9/11 would ever happen?

[MattKeil]

Anyone who read the intelligence reports?

[Matt Perkins]

Anyone who read the intelligence reports?
Not anyone in the government, obviously.

[MattKeil]

I'm sure plenty of people in the government who had access to the reports thought so. Just not the people in any position to do something about it.

I'd still like to hear the scenario in which the U.S. is invaded.

[Fugitive]

How is this a stupid question? (oh yeah, america will be around forever! how could i forget?) Unless world peace comes tomorrow, the US is not always gonna be a prosperous little bubble. Who would have thought 9/11 would ever happen?
Well no, no power lasts forever, but it's not too difficult to project into the near-future either. Anybody who wants to invade is either going to have to do so navally, where Lum has already pointed out the vast disparity in forces, or march over the Bering Strait and through Alaska, which would be a rather poor bottleneck to fight through.

[Wallapuctus]

The US Navy has what are called carrier strike groups (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrier_battle_group#The_U.S._Navy_carrier_strike_ group). Each CSG could defeat almost any navy in the world (it may have some problems defeating the Royal Navy or the French Navy by itself).

Carrier has arrived.

[Ed Solomon]

How is this a stupid question?

Dude, when the last time England was invaded?

[Reldan]

How is this a stupid question? (oh yeah, america will be around forever! how could i forget?) Unless world peace comes tomorrow, the US is not always gonna be a prosperous little bubble. Who would have thought 9/11 would ever happen?

You specifically stated military invasion, not loss of prosperity, one-off terrorist attacks, or nuclear holocaust.

If you can't comprehend how stupid the concept of military invasion is...

I mean, holy fuck, do you expect the Chinese to use ancient Chinese secret to raise the Bering Strait and come at us through Canada? Invasion from outer space that somehow involves ground fighting (news flash - it'd probably be a lot more like in Independence Day).

[Cubit]

Well no, no power lasts forever, but it's not too difficult to project into the near-future either. Anybody who wants to invade is either going to have to do so navally, where Lum has already pointed out the vast disparity in forces, or march over the Bering Strait and through Alaska, which would be a rather poor bottleneck to fight through.

Very good points man. Hitler probably had the best idea of going through Mexico.

I didn't mean just invasion in the first post. Any type of war/conflict or disaster I had in mind.

[RepoMan]

Oh Lordy Lordy Lord, this is gonna be entertaining. There are quite a few people who were expecting 9/11. I can hook you up with one of them in Australia, in fact. He's got a bitching fallout shelter.

Regardless, I think what you need here is to get some real scenarios going. I mean, what the fuck is the deal here? China decides to invade the US because, um, I dunno, they got sick of us making a stink about Taiwan or some shit? China is the only country that has any kind of shot at it, and they are really busy trying to make enough money to keep their own people from fucking revolting, and the US is their major economic meal ticket, so attacking us would be really geopolitically fucking stupid don't you think?

I mean, Jesus Christ, Cubit, learn a little bit about how the world has changed since a hundred years ago, and then if you really want this thread to go somewhere, get specific about who would attack us and why. Otherwise you're blowing mighty fragrant smoke -- or some gaseous substance -- straight out your proverbial ass.

Edit: Oh, you're NOT talking about invasion? The title of your thread kind of gives the lie to that one. Anyway, if you want to get that flexible about it, then 9/11 WAS war coming to america. And what did we go and do? We went off and beat the shit out of some tinpot dictator in a totally unrelated country because our president needed to prove to his dad that his balls were bigger than his dad's balls (since said dad failed to beat sufficient shit out of said dictator a decade previously). So, there's your answer.

What did I do during all of this? I was seriously fucking skeptical until it became obvious that Bush had 1) lied out his ass and 2) totally fucked up the war planning, and then I wrote the little cockmonger off for good. That's what I did when war came to America.

[Reldan]

Regardless, I think what you need here is to get some real scenarios going. I mean, what the fuck is the deal here? China decides to invade the US because, um, I dunno, they got sick of us making a stink about Taiwan or some shit?

Even assuming all of that comes about... how would they do it in such a way that we would need to band together in militias to defend the home country?

[Enidigm]

Mexico and Canada might ally with each other to destroy the American menace.

New England, the coastal portion of Washington and Oregon, Alaska and California might choose to join Canada.

Texas secedes, captures New Mexico, builds a giant wall between it and Louisiana, and bombs Oklahoma into a parking lot, as would be proper to any right thinking human being.

Florida freaks out, more than usual, and implodes.

Wyoming joins Montana and Idaho and destroys all goverment structures and raises the banner of libertarianism, and returns to the ways of their forefathers; hunting and trapping.

Washington DC citizens revolt and the capital is destroyed through riots and intervening military action, destroying the Federal Capital.

Muslims in Detroit rebel and establish a new sub-arctic nation known as the Sultinate of Fard (Ford). Mexicans-American citizens in the southern portions of the Southwest defect their counties to Mexico.

If all these things happen, America might be invaded.

[Reldan]

What would you do, if you were asked to give up your dreams for freedom?
Answer the call, make the ultimate sacrifice?
Cause the only reason that you're here, is cause folks died for you in the past.
So maybe now it's your turn, to die kickin' some ass!

Freedom isn't free, it takes folks like you and me,
And if we don't all pitch in, we'll never pay that bill!
Freedom isn't free, no there's a hefty fucking fee!
And if you don't pitch in your buck o' five who will?

[Bahimiron]

There are quite a few people who were expecting 9/11. I can hook you up with one of them in Australia, in fact.

Australia kind of ends up as an ultimate retreat for these people. I've got a cousin who is part of a kibbutz in the middle of fuck-all-nowhere in western Australia which was founded in the early 80s based on the fear that neo-Nazism was on the rise and it was only so long before the second Holocaust started.

[Wallapuctus]

What about a second American Civil War (http://www.johntitor.com/Pages/CivilWar.html)? I mean that's totally plausible right?

Or maybe a Zombie holocaust (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_Z)? I don't know what I'd do it that happened... probably flee to northern Canada with my Xbox and a lawnmower (to kill zombies with obviously).

[triggercut]

How is this a stupid question? (oh yeah, america will be around forever! how could i forget?) Unless world peace comes tomorrow, the US is not always gonna be a prosperous little bubble. Who would have thought 9/11 would ever happen?

You said "invaded" or "war came to America". That isn't a terrorist attack. Who would have thought 9/11 would ever happen? Dude, this may be a shock, but if folks didn't exactly see the means of the attack clearly, they sure saw the opportunity targets and other methods bright and clear. Tom Clancy wrote books and had movies made about stuff like 9/11. Go see a bad '70's film like "Black Sunday" or "Two Minute Warning".

But you're talking about invasion. Which is fucking stupid. As someone else pointed out, how many times, specifically, has Great Britain been invaded in the last, say 400-500 years?

And now you're hypothetically coming up with a question where the US is invaded in our lifetimes? And you're wondering why that's a stupid question?

Really?

[Cubit]

ok, i'll resist nitpicking post word choice here. can't a guy ruminate without his head being bitten off? thanks to the folks who actually seriously explained why invasion wouldn't be a practical military strategy against the u.s.

[Andrew Mayer]

How is this a stupid question

Because you're not proposing a genuine hypothetical situation.

It's a Homer Simpson question.

Or what? You'll release the dogs? Or the bees? Or the dogs with bees in their mouth and when they bark they shoot bees at you?

[Cubit]

Or what? You'll release the dogs? Or the bees? Or the dogs with bees in their mouth and when they bark they shoot bees at you?

If only my question was this good. :)

[RepoMan]

can't a guy ruminate without his head being bitten off?
Not here, friend. Not here. Ya gotta ruminate BEFORE posting 'round these parts. Otherwise all the wolves hereabouts go "Holy shit, a big fat tasty cow jes' a-ruminatin' away!" and chomp the shit outta ya.

[Ezdaar]

The Navy won't protect us from the Liberals working with terrorists to assassinate the president and then take over New York with their super advanced walkers! What are you going to do then?!

[ElGuapo]

Anyway, if you want to get that flexible about it, then 9/11 WAS war coming to america. And what did we go and do? We went off and beat the shit out of some tinpot dictator in a totally unrelated country because our president needed to prove to his dad that his balls were bigger than his dad's balls (since said dad failed to beat sufficient shit out of said dictator a decade previously).

Yes, we did that. But before we did that, we invaded a country to their northeast called Afghanistan. Remember that? That was the correct response, as the group that claimed responsibility for the attack was in that country (mostly) and being protected by its defacto government. So we threw out the government and replaced it, while combing the hillsides with bombs and ground troops. A battle we are still fighting, incidentally.

Iraq, remember, was just a big misstep from an otherwise rational response.

[Reldan]

The Navy won't protect us from the Liberals working with terrorists to assassinate the president and then take over New York with their super advanced walkers! What are you going to do then?!

And yet... still technically not an invasion. Your hypothetical? Fail.

[Matthew Gallant]

Well, no invader is going to get my wallet, that's for sure.

[Ephraim]

Well, no invader is going to get my wallet, that's for sure.

What about Space Invaders? They'll get your money, one quarter at a time.

[Lunch of Kong]

You need to consider all the possible scenarios.

USSR First Strike, US First Strike, NATO/Warsaw Pact, Far East Strategy, US/USSR Escalation, Middle East War, USSR China Attack, India Pakistan War, Mediterranean War, Hong Kong Variant, Seato Decapitating, Cuban Provocation, Atlantic Heavy, Cuban Paramilitary, Nicaraguan Preemptive, Pacific Tutorial, Burmese Theaterwide, Turkish Decoy, NATO Alliance, Argentina Escalation, Iceland Maximum, Arabian Theaterwide, US Subversion, Australian Manoeuvre, Cuban Diversion, NATO Limited, Sudan Surprise, NATO Territorial, Zaire Alliance, Iceland Incident, English Escalation, Zaire Heavy, English Paramilitary, Middle East Heavy, Mexican Takeover, Chad Alert +, Saudi Manoeuvre, African Territorial, Ethiopian Escalation, Canadian Incident, Turkish Heavy, NATO Incursion, US Defense, Cambodian Heavy, Pact Medium, Arctic Minimal, Mexican Domestic, Taiwan Theaterwide, Pacific Manoeuvre, Portugal Revolution, Albanian Decoy, Palestinian Local, Moroccan Minimal, Algerian Diversity, Czech Option, French Alliance, Arabian Clandestine, Gabon Rebellion, Northern Maximum, Siberian Surprise, Turkish Paramilitary, Seato Takeover, Hawaiian Manoeuvre, NATO Containment, Swiss Incident, Cuban Minimal, Chad Alert +, Iceland Escalation, Vietnamese Retaliation, Syrian Provocation, Libyan Local, Gabon Takeover, Romanian War, Middle East Offensive, Denmark Massive, Chile Confrontation, S. African Subversion, USSR Alert, Nicaraguan Thrust, Greenland Domestic, Iceland Heavy, Kenya Option, Pacific Defense, Uganda Maximum, Thai Subversion, Romanian Strike, Pakistan Sovereignty, Afghan Misdirection, Thai Variation, Northern Territorial, Polish Paramilitary, S. African Offensive, Panama Misdirection, Scandinavian Domestic, Jordan Preemptive, English Thrust, Burmese Manoeuvre, Spain Counter, Arabian Offensive, Chad Interdiction, Taiwan Misdirection, Bangladesh Theaterwide, Ethiopian Local, Italian Takeover, Vietnamese Incident, English Preemptive, Denmark Alternative, Thai Confrontation, Taiwan Surprise, Brazilian Strike, Venezuela Sudden, Malaysian Alert, Israel Discretionary, Libyan Action, Palestinian Tactical, NATO Alternative, Cypress Maneuver, Egypt Misdirection, Bangladesh Thrust, Kenya Defense, Bangladesh Containment, Vietnamese Strike, Albanian Containment, Gabon Surprise, Iraq Sovereignty, Vietnamese Sudden, Lebanon Interdiction, Taiwan Domestic, Algerian Sovereignty, Arabian Strike, Atlantic Sudden, Mongolian Thrust, Polish Decoy, Alaskan Discretionary, Canadian Thrust, Arabian Light, S. African Domestic, Tunisian Incident, Malaysian Manoeuvre, Jamaica Decoy, Malaysian Minimal, Russian Sovereignty, Chad Option, Bangladesh War, Burmese Containment, Asian Theaterwide, Bulgarian Clandestine, Greenland Incursion, Egypt Surgical, Czech Heavy, Taiwan Confrontation, Greenland Maximum, Uganda Maximum, Caspian Defense.

[Ed Solomon]

A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

[Pogo]

I don't know why everyone's jumping on his throat. Maybe because this is in P&R and not Everything Else that a more serious hypothetical is required.

I always wondered how another country could possibly invade the U.S., and where they would start that could give them any sort of strategic advantage. Any strike on infrastructure would have to be massive and complex with the redundant systems that are in place.

On a more humorous side, I imagine that any foreign invaders would have some serious fucking trouble with civilian militias in urban warfare. Even drug kingpins and street soldiers could form in the ghettos of major cities and prove a deadly force with automatic weapons fire and even in some cases a decent experience of urban warfare. It's hard to say if that would happen, or if people would just flee in terror to try to save themselves, but it's an interesting hypothetical to play out in your mind.

Personally I would shack up in a house with a ton of bullets and my rifle and start aiming for the head. I probably wouldn't last long before being killed by an explosive or sniper counter-fire, but hell it might be a fun way to go out. Although that'd probably work better during the inevitable zombie invasion.

[ElGuapo]

A few pretty decent sized EMPs above the east and west coasts would make things a whole lot easier.

[unbongwah]

http://images.boardgamegeek.com/images/pic290658_md.jpg

[ElGuapo]

What I'd really do is probably go over to unbongwah's house and drink his beer and play Fortress America.

[Pogo]

A few pretty decent sized EMPs above the east and west coasts would make things a whole lot easier.

Isn't that one of those arguments where professionals are on two sides of a fence about the effectiveness of EMPs in an attack over large distances?

[wahoo]

What I'd really do is probably go over to unbongwah's house and drink his beer and play Fortress America.


This is what I love about this board. I was gonna go with the, "Make sure I put my first lasers in Detroit/Minneapolis" joke, but not sure anyone else would get it.

[Pogo]

This is what I love about this board. I was gonna go with the, "Make sure I put my first lasers in Detroit/Minneapolis" joke, but not sure anyone else would get it.

You could also make sure your submarines are set to drop submersible sensing devices.

And make sure you fire your farthest ballistic missiles first so they all hit at the same time.

[RepoMan]

Yes, we did that. But before we did that, we invaded a country to their northeast called Afghanistan. Remember that? That was the correct response....
Iraq, remember, was just a big misstep from an otherwise rational response.
Agreed. "Misstep" kind of understates the dimensions of it all, though. Last I heard, we'd spent an unholy fuckload more money on Iraq than on Afghanistan. In fact, "footnote" is pretty much the dimensions of Afghanistan these days, which only exacerbates the blame Bush will carry into history.

(The fact that Iraq may arguably wind up being a partial success doesn't excuse the massive incompetence and deceit that Bush displayed in creating the whole situation there.)

[Sidd_Budd]

I didn't mean just invasion in the first post. Any type of war/conflict or disaster I had in mind.
Were you living in this country on Sept 11, 2001? Because if you were, you already have an example of what you would do if hostile forces were able to execute some type of action in the United States.

I'm confident I'd be useless when it comes to surviving as a member of a wilderness militia, even if their warcry is both the name of my favorite Marvel superhero and the mascot of my undergrad alma mater.

So I expect I'll do what I did on Sept 11, 2001 -- contact my friends & family to make sure they are safe, pay attention to ongoing news & current events, & try to keep focused on my long-term goals & principles, rather than impulsively overreacting to freaky short-term chaos.

[Dave Markell]

This is what I love about this board. I was gonna go with the, "Make sure I put my first lasers in Detroit/Minneapolis" joke, but not sure anyone else would get it.

Partisan cards! Counterattack for more partisan cards!

[Jon Rowe]

I've trained for situations like this. I beat Freedom Fighters and I finished the Turning Point: Fall of Liberty demo.

I love that game. I need to do my annual playthrough sometime soon.

[Jason McCullough]

The only people who can confidentally predict what they'd do in an extreme scenario like this are on the fringes of society, I'm afraid.

I mean, holy fuck, do you expect the Chinese to use ancient Chinese secret to raise the Bering Strait and come at us through Canada?

Dear Hollywood, please make this.

I think Lunch of Kong won the thread, though. I wish I could find a good jpg of the funnier scenario names for my desktop background.

[MarinusWA]

The better question is, why would anyone even want to launch a military invasion targeting the US. It's too big too hold, there aren't any critical natural resources, the infrastructure is old and you can't even use the people as proper work slaves because most of them are fat.

Frankly, bringing down the nation can be achieved much more easily through economic warfare. Oh wait, that is happening already.

[Talisker]

What would you do if the U.S. was invaded by zombies or war zombies somehow came to this country?

Edit: dammit, Wallapuctus beat me to it.
Or maybe a Zombie holocaust (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_Z)? I don't know what I'd do it that happened... probably flee to northern Canada with my Xbox and a lawnmower (to kill zombies with obviously).
Hey Whitta -- I'll pitch in twenty bucks and a case of PBR if you write a Zombie Red Dawn script. That oughta be good for at least nine pages, no?

[Tim James]

What would I do? I'd go ahead and nuke Seattle.

Really disappointed I couldn't just let that city die in World in Conflict.

[Slothrop]

You said "invaded" or "war came to America". That isn't a terrorist attack. Who would have thought 9/11 would ever happen? Dude, this may be a shock, but if folks didn't exactly see the means of the attack clearly, they sure saw the opportunity targets and other methods bright and clear. Tom Clancy wrote books and had movies made about stuff like 9/11. Go see a bad '70's film like "Black Sunday" or "Two Minute Warning".

Shut your mouth, Black Sunday kicked ass.

[Midnight Son]

I would kick some enemy ass, of course.

[Talisker]

Duh, I missed the obvious title for a Red Dawn + Zombie movie:

http://i34.tinypic.com/2lbkwo6.jpg

[Alan Au]

What would I do? I'd go ahead and nuke Seattle.Egad, I hope not! That's where I keep all my stuff!

- Alan


P.S. - Wolverines!

[Hanzii]

Which was the book that had the Korean shipyards convert a fleet of the worlds biggest container ships (which are Danish and not Korean, btw mr. writer) into Supercarriers to fight the US?
That could totally work.

Or somebody could fly a 747 into Capitol Hill (written before 9/11 so even bad fiction writers had an idea - see also Black Sunday as mentioned) and make Harrison Ford the president.

[Larinson]

Even France hasn't been invaded in the last 50 years, so I think you guys in the US are reasonably safe for the foreseeable future.

[Linoleum]

Oh yeah, what about battle droids, that don't obey the Three Laws, but Sharia? Huh? Huh?

[Lunch of Kong]

I wish I could find a good jpg of the funnier scenario names for my desktop background.

I was giddy for a whole week after our marketing department revealed the theme of our software installers and web site for 2007:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a395/rogerawong/bckgrdhomeipMonitor.png

[Rollory]

Even France hasn't been invaded in the last 50 years, so I think you guys in the US are reasonably safe for the foreseeable future.

You've not been to the zones urbaines sensibles.

Also, you clearly haven't had your car blown up because you committed the unforgiveable crime of parking it on the street. This happens an average of 200 times a night, every night. If their feelings are hurt because someone didn't bow and scrape enough it can spike to 600 a night. Nor have you ever had a sister or female friend gang-raped for a few days. This happens so often the newspapers don't even bother reporting it anymore.

As for the US -

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26186087/from/ET/

Which is of course meaningless if you take the nurture side of nature vs nurture - or, in other words, if you form your worldview on the basis of religion as opposed to evidence. We'll see violence levels high enough to qualify as a war, and it won't take 50 years. Maybe 30.

[Aeon221]

But you're talking about invasion. Which is fucking stupid. As someone else pointed out, how many times, specifically, has Great Britain been invaded in the last, say 400-500 years?


Well, there's the obvious ones -- the Glorious Revolution in 1688 and Henry VII's invasion in 1485. Earlier in the 1400s, Warwick and Edward both invaded England multiple times. Margaret of Anjou also managed one during that period, using Warwick as her cats paw.

During the 18th and early 19th century the French also occupied various channel islands, but whether or not that counts is somewhat unimportant.

That's it for the recent naval invasions.

Then there are the innumerable Scots invasions. Ignoring the annual border raids, there were several major Scottish incursions. Some of them went poorly, like Flodden Field in 1513, and some went better, like that under Margaret of Anjou in 1460, where she crushed the Yorks at Wakefield. The Stuarts (after their deposition in 1688) also loved using Scotland as a landing ground for invasions, although that stopped after Bonnie Prince Charlie was beaten in 1745.

So, lots of invasions, not too many recent ones. It's actually pretty impressive how often those invasions were successful, and how much depended on the initial reaction of the monarch -- Edward of York's history (beat two invasions off, lost to one, succeeded in an invasion of his own) best illustrates that.

I'm assuming that you aren't including the Empire in your question, just the isles. If the Empire is included, the Brits have been invaded a shitton more than all of that.

[salwon]

Canadian Thrust

I think I saw that porno...

[Larinson]

It doesn't count as invasion if you give them a passport ¬_¬. As for women being gang-raped for days, I imagine that WOULD make news rather frequently, and I imagine it would also make the international news if it was such a frequent occurrence.

You're right that I haven't had my car blown up, though. A fact of which I'm jolly glad, actually. Though you would have thought that the chap getting his car blown up 200 times a night simply for parking it on the street would get the message after a week or so!

Well, there's the obvious ones -- the Glorious Revolution in 1688 and Henry VII's invasion in 1485. Earlier in the 1400s, Warwick and Edward both invaded England multiple times. Margaret of Anjou also managed one during that period, using Warwick as her cats paw.

During the 18th and early 19th century the French also occupied various channel islands, but whether or not that counts is somewhat unimportant.

That's it for the recent naval invasions.

Then there are the innumerable Scots invasions. Ignoring the annual border raids, there were several major Scottish incursions. Some of them went poorly, like Flodden Field in 1513, and some went better, like that under Margaret of Anjou in 1460, where she crushed the Yorks at Wakefield. The Stuarts (after their deposition in 1688) also loved using Scotland as a landing ground for invasions, although that stopped after Bonnie Prince Charlie was beaten in 1745.

So, lots of invasions, not too many recent ones. It's actually pretty impressive how often those invasions were successful, and how much depended on the initial reaction of the monarch -- Edward of York's history (beat two invasions off, lost to one, succeeded in an invasion of his own) best illustrates that.

I'm assuming that you aren't including the Empire in your question, just the isles. If the Empire is included, the Brits have been invaded a shitton more than all of that.

Well, Great Britain didn't exist until 1707, so technically a few of those don't count ;). Seriously though, Henry VII's invasion was just a continuation of the Wars of the Roses. The Glorious Revolution is something of a touch, but then again they were invited over, and they had a dynastic claim so I don't think it constitutes the invasion that is envisaged by the term 'invasion'.

[Post-It]

I'd just kick it and not worry about a damn thing. One of the few perks of living in AL is that 90% of the population is heavily armed. I stopped by an attorney friend's office yesterday in a nice part of town and he had a double-barreled over&under in his umbrella holder can by his door. I commented on it and he was all "Shit, that's just in case I'm by the door and not behind my desk!" and proceeded to pull out a S&W M&P 45 ACP from under his desk. And that's from an educated person living in what passes for a city in AL. Get out into the country and it just gets scarey.

[Hanzii]

You've not been to the zones urbaines sensibles.

Also, you clearly haven't had your car blown up because you committed the unforgiveable crime of parking it on the street. This happens an average of 200 times a night, every night. If their feelings are hurt because someone didn't bow and scrape enough it can spike to 600 a night. Nor have you ever had a sister or female friend gang-raped for a few days. This happens so often the newspapers don't even bother reporting it anymore.

As for the US -

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26186087/from/ET/

Which is of course meaningless if you take the nurture side of nature vs nurture - or, in other words, if you form your worldview on the basis of religion as opposed to evidence. We'll see violence levels high enough to qualify as a war, and it won't take 50 years. Maybe 30.

Shit. France is worse than Darfur and Iraq combined - lets scramble the UN Peacekeepers.

Too bad it's just another crazy Rollory hit and run posts and that he'll never return to the thread to defend his madness.

[Hawkeye Fierce]

At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it? Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step the Ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest; with a Buonaparte for a commander, could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years. At what point, then, is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide.

One of my favorite Lincoln quotes, and it seems germane to this discussion.

[Pogo]

I'd just kick it and not worry about a damn thing. One of the few perks of living in AL is that 90% of the population is heavily armed. I stopped by an attorney friend's office yesterday in a nice part of town and he had a double-barreled over&under in his umbrella holder can by his door. I commented on it and he was all "Shit, that's just in case I'm by the door and not behind my desk!" and proceeded to pull out a S&W M&P 45 ACP from under his desk. And that's from an educated person living in what passes for a city in AL. Get out into the country and it just gets scarey.

Heh, it's like that around here too.

[Rollory]

Shit. France is worse than Darfur and Iraq combined - lets scramble the UN Peacekeepers.

Too bad it's just another crazy Rollory hit and run posts and that he'll never return to the thread to defend his madness.

See, this kind of scintillating counterargument backed up by plentiful evidence is why I don't normally bother.

[Kareem]

As opposed to your own reams of links proving your point?

[Wallapuctus]

Are you referring to this?
http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/2002/1202/crime/bellil.htm

[Aeon221]

Well, Great Britain didn't exist until 1707, so technically a few of those don't count ;). Seriously though, Henry VII's invasion was just a continuation of the Wars of the Roses. The Glorious Revolution is something of a touch, but then again they were invited over, and they had a dynastic claim so I don't think it constitutes the invasion that is envisaged by the term 'invasion'.

I'm aware of the Act of Union. I'm also, as a veteran of a thousand forum wars, aware of the art of context!

how many times, specifically, has Great Britain been invaded in the last, say 400-500 years?

In that situation, quibbling over GB is irrelevant -- the poster is clearly attempting to ask about invasions in the British Isles.

As to your contentions with some of the invasions I listed, all of them included at least one major battle.

And I think you've also miscategorized Henry VII's invasion as part of the WotR, although I'm definitely on the farther edges of scholarly opinion here. Henry VII's invasion is only just barely part of the War of the Roses. It's separated from the last major combat action by something like twenty years, and is more accurately categorized as an act against an unpopular monarch rather than an attempt to promote Lancaster. Be sure to consider both the wide bipartisan support Henry enjoyed and his swift action to end the conflict by marrying Elizabeth of York when thinking about whether or not this invasion belongs in the WotR.

[Hanzii]

See, this kind of scintillating counterargument backed up by plentiful evidence is why I don't normally bother.

It's common curtesy for everyone else to back up their wild claims. Not just making them and then wait for the counterarguments full of proof.

[Rollory]

It's common curtesy for everyone else to back up their wild claims. Not just making them and then wait for the counterarguments full of proof.

What, you want evidence the sun rises in the east too? It's not a wild claim. 30 seconds with google gives me the French Socialist Party saying they think the official report of ~370 cars burned on a particular night recently is an undercount:
http://www.20minutes.fr/article/203896/Politique-Le-PS-denonce-le-probleme-de-comptage-de-l-Interieur-pour-la-Saint-Sylvestre.php

Note: the _socialists_ are saying that 370 is an _undercount_ My claim is an average of 200 per night. That's on the order of half a billion dollars a year in destroyed private property. You think that doesn't qualify for war-scale damage? No, you're too busy being a smartass.

It's not like numbers on this are hard to dig up. It happens. Anybody who wants to know whether it happens can find out. You obviously don't want to know, and when facts are mentioned you make smartass comments. You think you deserve courtesy? You don't.

I'll leave the subject of gang rapes as an exercise for the reader. Here's a name to get you started: Samira Bellil. She was all over the news a few years back - not that it had any real impact on the situation - and there weren't any liberals telling her she must be mistaken, either.

The rest of what I said - about the US - follows from readily available evidence, too.

[Anti-Bunny]

My claim is an average of 200 per night.

That's still high, it's closer to 125.

[Hugin]

I strongly suspect that any successful invasion plan for the US would begin with actions (nukes, biological sabotage) that would cause my death in the first few days or hours, living as I do in a densely settled east coast city.

But if I survived, I'd head for Australia, fortify the hell out of Siam, then bide my time till I could sweep up through Kamchatka, cross over to Alaska, and retake the motherland.

[Hanzii]

What, you want evidence the sun rises in the east too? It's not a wild claim. 30 seconds with google gives me the French Socialist Party saying they think the official report of ~370 cars burned on a particular night recently is an undercount:
http://www.20minutes.fr/article/203896/Politique-Le-PS-denonce-le-probleme-de-comptage-de-l-Interieur-pour-la-Saint-Sylvestre.php

Note: the _socialists_ are saying that 370 is an _undercount_ My claim is an average of 200 per night. That's on the order of half a billion dollars a year in destroyed private property. You think that doesn't qualify for war-scale damage? No, you're too busy being a smartass.

It's not like numbers on this are hard to dig up. It happens. Anybody who wants to know whether it happens can find out. You obviously don't want to know, and when facts are mentioned you make smartass comments. You think you deserve courtesy? You don't.

I'll leave the subject of gang rapes as an exercise for the reader. Here's a name to get you started: Samira Bellil. She was all over the news a few years back - not that it had any real impact on the situation - and there weren't any liberals telling her she must be mistaken, either.

The rest of what I said - about the US - follows from readily available evidence, too.


You're off your fucking rocker (as always) forcing me to learn french and do your research for you.
Since I know you'll just leave the thread once actual proof surfaces as you always do and wait for another thread to post your inflamatory nonsense, I'll just tell you how wrong you are and leave the actual Googling to those crazy enough to think you have a point worth looking at.

That article is about is about a disparity in how the French department of the interior counts the yearly burnings on New Years Eve - it's one night a year, not every night.
It's still bad that 200-370 cars burn a year on that one night, but nowhere near your numbers. Even adding the numbers from the 2005 and 2007 riots and calculationg a per night average won't bring us anywhere near your "warscale damage".

You conveniently skirt around the rape numbers by citing a book about gangrapes happening in the 1980s - they still happen, but there's absolutely no proof that they're common, but of course your claim that there's a press conspiracy to cover it up combined with the articles (most based on that same book) saying that the victims are scared to report them is very convenient for you.
But while a real problem, it's nowhere as bad as you claim.

Of course your claim that it's because of Islam can't be proved either. Most of the violence happens in the ghettos mostly inhabited by islamic immigrants, but it's farfetched that the main cause is islam itself and not extreme poverty - also the violence you're so sure will come to the US as well, is limited to France and the victims are mostly from the same ghettos and same demographic as the criminals.
So it's not islamic gangs targetting the whiteys as you imply.

[Rward]

Invading America would Extremly Difficult.

By the time the invading army set foot on American soil I think their home country would be a nuclear waste zone.

How they got there would be a tricky question too.
anything going by sea would be sunk well before it arrived and anything by air, blown down half way.

If anyone decided to try come up from South America they could pop a nuke or 2 over the Suez and turn it into 'no-go' land.

The 'easiest' would be to probably come across the polar ice cap and probably lose a large portion of your invading army in the process.

I think the only way America could be attacked would be from inside. Usually I think they call it the General Election adn there isn't too much bloodshed.



Last I heard, we'd spent an unholy fuckload more money on Iraq than on Afghanistan.

I read a short piece in the Times magazine the other day about Iraq ;
And yet, of the $67 Billion the Iraqi government spent from 2005 to 2007, just 1% went towards infrastructure projects .. U.S. taxpayers have spent $48 BILLION on Iraq reconstructionm so far

$48 Biiiiillliiiiooonn Dollars!!
Thats stupendous!

I hope none of you get charged if you every go there on holiday!

[deccan]

That article is about is about a disparity in how the French department of the interior counts the yearly burnings on New Years Eve - it's one night a year, not every night.
It's still bad that 200-370 cars burn a year on that one night, but nowhere near your numbers. Even adding the numbers from the 2005 and 2007 riots and calculationg a per night average won't bring us anywhere near your "warscale damage".


I can read French and would like to confirm that the article is talking about the statistic of one particular night every year, and not a daily average for the whole year.

[krise madsen]

It's times like these I regret never having watched Red Dawn. But only times like these.

I do like the image this thead conjures up of Cubit and Rollroy sharing a home-made bunker, waiting for "the invasion". I'm sure some of the more liberal mental institutions would let them use a garden shed as "survival cell".

Respectfully

krise madsen

PS: An alien invasion may be the death of all of us. But it would still be fucking awesome. Also, we get to play X-COM for real.

[MattKeil]

Invading America would Extremly Difficult.

By the time the invading army set foot on American soil I think their home country would be a nuclear waste zone.

Or perhaps not. (http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/2008/08/07/20080807incursion0807.html)

An alien invasion may be the death of all of us. But it would still be fucking awesome. Also, we get to play X-COM for real.

The history of colonization on Earth, does not encourage me to think that aliens would be friendly. It would be more like the film Independence Day than E.T.
- Stephen Hawking

[Larinson]

In that situation, quibbling over GB is irrelevant -- the poster is clearly attempting to ask about invasions in the British Isles.

As to your contentions with some of the invasions I listed, all of them included at least one major battle.

And I think you've also miscategorized Henry VII's invasion as part of the WotR, although I'm definitely on the farther edges of scholarly opinion here. Henry VII's invasion is only just barely part of the War of the Roses. It's separated from the last major combat action by something like twenty years, and is more accurately categorized as an act against an unpopular monarch rather than an attempt to promote Lancaster. Be sure to consider both the wide bipartisan support Henry enjoyed and his swift action to end the conflict by marrying Elizabeth of York when thinking about whether or not this invasion belongs in the WotR.

Oh, I entirely agree with your first point, I was just nit-picking!

As for the Henry VII - WotR issue, I'm afraid I'll have to stick to my guns. Henry VII was of the house of Lancaster, and really the WotR is a description of the battles between the two rival houses for control of the crown, so I would say that by definition the invasion was part of that. Granted he did have some Yorkist support, but I would still say that the fact that he was part of the house of Lancaster, and was fighting the King who inherited his crown through the Yorkist claim would make it a legitimate part of the WotR. You can see the importance of the issue of dynasty by the fact that Henry VII married Elizabeth Woodville and thus united the two houses.

[Mr_PeaCH]

Fucking A. It's a stupid question, Cubit, and if you answer isn't to run around yelling "Wolverines!" this board has nothing further to say to you.

As for the entire thread, 4 pages and counting... TL;DR

But as I read the title I bet myself that someone would go "Wolverines!" within 10 posts. Thanks for taking one for the team, Ed!

[wisefool]

The history of colonization on Earth, does not encourage me to think that aliens would be friendly. It would be more like the film Independence Day than E.T.
- Stephen Hawking

I think Sir Hawking is smart enough to realize anyone who can travel across the bloody galaxy can engineer a killer virus, transfer world government to Bush by haxoring our computers, or just orbit up there and lob a couple of rocks.

Horrible action movie, but would make a great porn movie.