Grass-fed beef.

[Rimbo]

I found The Daily Coyote via Cute Overload, and it seems that its author and I share an obsession: Grass-fed beef (http://dailycoyotefaq.blogspot.com/2008/08/cows-cruelty.html).

Now to her, it's about cruelty, but to me, it's about taste. Grass-fed beef tastes better than any other kind to me. What's more, it's the only food a cow is actually designed to process correctly; corn causes all kinds of digestive problems for cows. Since grading of beef is done solely by the amount of fat in the meat; as a result, people are mistakenly believing that corn-fed beef is somehow a good thing.

Once of the nice things about growing up in Amarillo, Texas, was being able to get free-range grass-fed porterhouse steaks for $4 at the supermarket down the street. Now that I've left, I've been able to tolerate lesser quality beef (especially the filth they try to pass for meat here in Southern California -- have you SEEN how those cows live? How can you expect that NOT to get into the flavor of the meat?).

The point of all of this, for QT3ers who do eat meat, is this: Demand better. Ask for grass-fed beef at the butcher. And if they can't get it, find another butcher. Or look for a health food store that carries Coleman Natural (http://www.colemannatural.com/). And if you still can't find one, Melvin Edes (http://edesmeats.com/) ships. In fact, a 3lb tenderloin that ran me $90 from Whole Foods costed only $75 shipped from Edes.

that is all

[Ed Solomon]

I found The Daily Coyote via Cute Overload, and it seems that its author and I share an obsession: Grass-fed beef (http://dailycoyotefaq.blogspot.com/2008/08/cows-cruelty.html).

Now to her, it's about cruelty, but to me, it's about taste. Grass-fed beef tastes better than any other kind to me. What's more, it's the only food a cow is actually designed to process correctly; corn causes all kinds of digestive problems for cows. Since grading of beef is done solely by the amount of fat in the meat; as a result, people are mistakenly believing that corn-fed beef is somehow a good thing.

Once of the nice things about growing up in Amarillo, Texas, was being able to get free-range grass-fed porterhouse steaks for $4 at the supermarket down the street. Now that I've left, I've been able to tolerate lesser quality beef (especially the filth they try to pass for meat here in Southern California -- have you SEEN how those cows live? How can you expect that NOT to get into the flavor of the meat?).

The point of all of this, for QT3ers who do eat meat, is this: Demand better. Ask for grass-fed beef at the butcher. And if they can't get it, find another butcher. Or look for a health food store that carries Coleman Natural (http://www.colemannatural.com/). And if you still can't find one, Melvin Edes (http://edesmeats.com/) ships. In fact, a 3lb tenderloin that ran me $90 from Whole Foods costed only $75 shipped from Edes.

that is all
Am I missing something? According to your link, Melvin Edes beef is fed grain.

[WarrenM]

More important than grass fed is grass finished. Many farms will start them on grass and then switch to grain. They can still claim the cow was grass fed, however.

I do agree on your main point though - the taste difference is very noticeable. We get grass finished steaks from the farmers market now and they are the best I've ever had.

[Rimbo]

Am I missing something? According to your link, Melvin Edes beef is fed grain.

Melvin Edes' shop is full-service. You can specify otherwise if you so choose. You can also bring in your own cow, deer, pheasant or whatever and have them do the work for you.

He started out at the local Safeway, and always had a good eye for cows, which is how he was able to start up business for himself.

Edit: But I will ask him myself just to be sure. I just sorta assumed he did grass-fed.

[Ed Solomon]

More important than grass fed is grass finished. Many farms will start them on grass and then switch to grain. They can still claim the cow was grass fed, however.

I do agree on your main point though - the taste difference is very noticeable. We get grass finished steaks from the farmers market now and they are the best I've ever had.

I thought grass-fed meant only fed grass. Every feedlot cow has eaten grass for most of its life. They just fatten them up on grain for a few months before slaughter.

[WarrenM]

I thought grass-fed meant only fed grass.
My understanding is that it's ambiguous whereas "grass finished" isn't. I might be wrong though.

[Reldan]

In fact, a 3lb tenderloin that ran me $90 from Whole Foods costed only $75 shipped from Edes.

that is all

I think that says more about how much Whole Foods price gouges than it does about Edes being a deal.

You're going to be hard pressed to convert anybody when a 3 lb. choice tenderloin can be had for under $30 elsewhere.

That said, I probably spend $100 a month buying my beef and sausages from a local specialty butcher shop. It's all local, grass-fed beef, and I can get ground for under $6/lb and things like skirt steak for $11/lb.

[RSofaer]

WASHINGTON, Oct. 15, 2007 -- The U.S. Department of Agriculture today issued a voluntary standard for grass (forage) fed marketing claims. The standard will be published as a Notice in the Federal Register and is titled the U.S. Standard for Livestock and Meat Marketing Claim, Grass (Forage) Fed Claim for Ruminant Livestock and the Meat Products Derived from Such Livestock.



The grass fed standard states that grass and/or forage shall be the feed source consumed for the lifetime of the ruminant animal, with the exception of milk consumed prior to weaning. The diet shall be derived solely from forage and animals cannot be fed grain or grain by-products and must have continuous access to pasture during the growing season.


http://tinyurl.com/6focqj (http://tinyurl.com/6focqj)

I'm not quite sure what a 'voluntary standard' is.

I think antibiotic use in livestock should be banned or restricted. That would pretty much eliminate this problem. Also, less MRSA!

[Rimbo]

You're going to be hard pressed to convert anybody when a 3 lb. choice tenderloin can be had for under $30 elsewhere.

Dude. Where is this mythical "elsewhere" where good 3 lb. tenderloins can be had for under $30?

Or are you confusing "tenderloin" with "sirloin?"

[Reldan]

Dude. Where is this mythical "elsewhere" where good 3 lb. tenderloins can be had for under $30?

Or are you confusing "tenderloin" with "sirloin?"

Um... Costco (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=10208043&whse=BD_767&Ne=4000000&eCat=BD_767|7448|7611&N=4003991&Mo=97&No=4&Nr=P_CatalogName:BD_767&cat=7611&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-US&Sp=C&topnav=bdoff)?



Choice Tenderloin $9.28 a pound. Takes maybe 5-10 minutes to remove the silver skin and cut up the PSMO into whatever portion you desire, with the bonus that you've got the center cut here to enjoy.

[Rimbo]

Costco meat? Well, I guess if you're not too particular about what you feed your dogs, that's fine, then.

[WarrenM]

Alton Brown had a show on tenderloin where he showed how you can buy it in bulk. I don't think it was organic but it DID look like a good bargain for the money.

I'd rather have the grass finished though.

[Midnight Son]

Elitist prick? Who?


:)

[Rimbo]

Elitist prick? Who?


:)

I may be bad, but I feel good.

But seriously! This is the whole point! People are fed cows that eat by-products, live their entire lives pumped up on drugs and breathe and fester in their own shit because they're perfectly happy to eat drug-infused shit-stained slop-fed beef that they bought from Costco for $10/lb. But it's okay; the US Government says it's "Choice," and this is the highly-respected (and feared by cattle ranchers nationwide) USDA we're talking about, here!

http://www.buzzfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/captain_america_flag.jpg

Fuck yeah!

[Midnight Son]

Po folks like me, we still go to Costco. Mostly fo the chitlins and cornbread......

Oh! And the polish sausage and soda for a buck-fitty. No, I don't wanna know what's in the sausage.....

[Reed]

Alton Brown had a show on tenderloin where he showed how you can buy it in bulk. I don't think it was organic but it DID look like a good bargain for the money.
I remember that - yeah, it definitely looked like he was at Costco or Sams.

[JPR]

It was Costco. I just watched it on Youtube.

edit: which is here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7-_ka3DAuY) if anybody wants to know how to trim a PSMO.

edit again: and Rimbo, you're being ridiculous.

[Reldan]

Y'know, if a James Beard award-winning chef is willing to eat "drug-infused shit-stained slop-fed beef that they bought from Costco for $10/lb" then it's good enough for me.

I'd like to see you tell him that his steak pouivre and Chateaubriand are fit for dog food.

I do buy quite a bit of grass-fed beef, but I am not going to spend $25-$30/lb for it. Also the quality of grass-fed fluctuates widely depending on your region and the pastures the cows graze on, whereas corn-fed beef is pretty much consistent - same breed, same feed. Corn-fed beef typically has a higher fat content making it better for some applications (such as roasting).

[WarrenM]

Cows don't naturally eat corn. Heh. Grass finished is so much better I will honestly never go back as long as cost is not a concern and at this point in my life, it isn't.

[Midnight Son]

Ganja smokin' beef. Da best, mon!

[spiffy]

I do buy quite a bit of grass-fed beef, but I am not going to spend $25-$30/lb for it..

Maybe it's the high concentration of hippies in the bay area creating demand, but I buy grass-fed beef for maybe a 20% price difference at most. I dunno about the taste, generally my meat is slathered in sauce of some kind, but it does make me happier knowing the cattle I'm eating was nourished on what nature intended.

[Rimbo]

I dropped Mel a line and he responded:

"Call this man. I kill a lot of grass beef for him. Allan Birkenfeld, 806-570-6328. He will sell you a lb. of hamburger or a half of beef. Thanks! Mel."

Edit: http://www.paidom.com/ <-- this must be the guy

[Rimbo]

Y'know, if a James Beard award-winning chef is willing to eat "drug-infused shit-stained slop-fed beef that they bought from Costco for $10/lb" then it's good enough for me.

French cuisine came out of the aftermath of the French Revolution, when all the ingredients were crap so they had to figure out how to make it taste good anyway.

And it ain't good enough for me. You ought to be able to warm it and serve it without anything added, and it tastes good just like that. If it doesn't, you're ripping yourself off.

[BennyProfane]

Dang, after reading that Paidom web page, he's got me sold! Unfortunately, I live in Michigan :(

[strummer]

Dang, after reading that Paidom web page, he's got me sold! Unfortunately, I live in Michigan :(

They ship. (http://www.paidom.com/shipping.htm)

I am very tempted to try them out as well.

[Reldan]

French cuisine came out of the aftermath of the French Revolution, when all the ingredients were crap so they had to figure out how to make it taste good anyway.

Yeah, what do the French know about food anyways?


And it ain't good enough for me. You ought to be able to warm it and serve it without anything added, and it tastes good just like that. If it doesn't, you're ripping yourself off.

Without anything added? Do you not at the least season your food?

[Rimbo]

They ship. (http://www.paidom.com/shipping.htm)

I am very tempted to try them out as well.

Fuck yes


how did i miss that page

i blame temporary insanity

[Rimbo]

Without anything added? Do you not at the least season your food?

Seasoning good meat is like adding cola to fine scotch. It's fucking stupid, it is.

Edit: When I visited my g/w/w's crib in Qingdao, the way they serve all the seafood is like this: They steam it, you eat it. It is divine. Good steak is the same way. Seasoning just ... it's a waste of good ingredients.

Ever stood in a big field in the Texas/OK panhandle or SE Colorado and just... y'know, smelled it? That herbal smell? Now imagine a cow that spent its entire life EATING the source of that herbal smell. Those fields are properly ventilated, bro. No trees or hills to prevent the wind from clearing that stink outta there. As a result you DO get that herbal flavor in the meat, and you do NOT get that shit stank. Cows in the Inland Empire sit, sleep, and breathe their own shit-stank for their entire lives. And you can smell cow shit when you smell the beef thereupon produced. You're EATING that shit.

Fuck that.

Look, I played trombone and cello in high school. I know my bass clef. And everyone who ever did bass clef knows: All Cows Eat Grass. Grass is for cows, cows eat grass. Anything else is ... well, shit, that's what!

[Reldan]

You've lost me now.

You pay $75 for a hunk of tenderloin and then don't even properly salt it.

Whatever floats your boat.

[hong]

Seasoning good meat is like adding cola to fine scotch. It's fucking stupid, it is.

Edit: When I visited my g/w/w's crib in Qingdao, the way they serve all the seafood is like this: They steam it, you eat it. It is divine. Good steak is the same way. Seasoning just ... it's a waste of good ingredients.

Ever stood in a big field in the Texas/OK panhandle or SE Colorado and just... y'know, smelled it? That herbal smell? Now imagine a cow that spent its entire life EATING the source of that herbal smell. Those fields are properly ventilated, bro. No trees or hills to prevent the wind from clearing that stink outta there. As a result you DO get that herbal flavor in the meat, and you do NOT get that shit stank. Cows in the Inland Empire sit, sleep, and breathe their own shit-stank for their entire lives. And you can smell cow shit when you smell the beef thereupon produced. You're EATING that shit.

Fuck that.

Look, I played trombone and cello in high school. I know my bass clef. And everyone who ever did bass clef knows: All Cows Eat Grass. Grass is for cows, cows eat grass. Anything else is ... well, shit, that's what!

"So you're saying that if a grain-fed cow had personality, you'd eat it?"

"It'd have to be one motherfuckin' charmin' cow. It'd have to be the Cary Grant of cows."

[Rimbo]

You've lost me now.

You pay $75 for a hunk of tenderloin and then don't even properly salt it.

Whatever floats your boat.

if you're eating the right beef, salt is unnecessary

[Dave Markell]

So is grass-fed beef politics, or religion? Or both? Beware sacred political cows.

[Jason McCullough]

I need to get around to posting my review of Real Food (http://www.amazon.com/Real-Food-What-Eat-Why/dp/1596913428/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1218697206&sr=8-1). The statistics she cites on E. Coli bacteria counts in corn-fed vs. grass-fed cows are amazing.

[Papageno]

My dad grew up on a farm/ranch, and my grandma had a few head of cattle on that land till pretty much her dying day. The cattle all ate grass (alfalfa in the dead of winter--stored in the barn during the summer--we city kids helped with that). That beef tasted good. Grass-fed throughout the life of the animal is the way to go, ideally, but even "grass-finished" takes care of like 99% of all the BS E. Coli problems and such that we're always hearing about.

[Rimbo]

So is grass-fed beef politics, or religion? Or both? Beware sacred political cows.

both

how it's made is politics

what you eat is religion

[WarrenM]

if you're eating the right beef, salt is unnecessary
OK, now you're over the line. Mark it zero.

Salt and pepper are necessary in most foods. They amplify flavor rather than hide or mutate it. I would never serve anyone, myself included, meat that wasn't properly seasoned with salt.

[Brad Grenz]

Maybe it's the high concentration of hippies in the bay area creating demand, but I buy grass-fed beef for maybe a 20% price difference at most. I dunno about the taste, generally my meat is slathered in sauce of some kind, but it does make me happier knowing the cattle I'm eating was nourished on what nature intended.

Nature doesn't intend anything.

Except the thoughtful use of kosher salt on a nice piece of beef.

[WarrenM]

Nature doesn't intend anything.
Evolution certainly does, however. Cows, like most animals, have a preferred diet that their bodies are best able to handle. In their case, it's grass and not grain.

[hong]

Evolution certainly does, however. Cows, like most animals, have a preferred diet that their bodies are best able to handle. In their case, it's grass and not grain.
Clearly you've never eaten veal!

[Bill]

Salt and pepper ruins the flavor of beef.

The french don't know shit about cooking.


You've lost all credibility when it comes to talking about food.

[Talisker]

Rimbo only eats organic saltwater beef, caught wild in the Pacific.

[Ben Sones]

Yeah, seriously. That salt enhances the flavor of food is not even debated in the cooking world. I'd like to see you find one professional chef--from any school of cooking, French or otherwise--who would agree with you that salt "ruins the flavor of beef."

[Kraaze]

While I have to agree that Rimbo just stuck his (unsalted and therefore tasty) foot in his mouth he is only repeating a very common misconception. I know a lot of manly men who spout similar nonsense. They have expensive grills and therefore consider themselves masters of all things beef related. To such a man, any condiment at all is an insult to the purity of steak.

I *especially* love it when I hear that type of a guy going off in a steakhouse. There's something wonderfully hypocritical about hearing someone eating a heavily salted steak while simultaneously going on about how beef needs no seasoning at all. Bonus points if they are criticizing someone else for reaching for the steak sauce.

EDIT: grammar are hard.

[Reldan]

Steak pouirve is essentially making a pan gravy with your tenderloin so you don't lose the sublime flavors that have browned to the bottom of your pan. It has nothing to do with covering up the flavor of the beef - it's making sure you're getting all the flavors of the beef.

At the least tell me you don't cook the meat past medium-rare.

[Rimbo]

OK, now you're over the line. Mark it zero.

shut the fuck up, donny, you're out of your element here

[WarrenM]

Rimbo, this is not 'nam, this is the internet, there are rules.

Awesome scene.
(http://www.metacafe.com/watch/71884/you_are_entering_a_world_of_pain/)

You don't put salt on that meat, you're entering a world of pain.

[Rimbo]

Spiceless? Bah. Say what you will about the tenets of French cuisine, at least it's an ethos.

[Rimbo]

Yeah... so when I made that post in EE warning everyone that I might post something stupid because I was stressed and/or inebriated? "Steak doesn't need salt" is the winner. I don't know what had me sayin' that.

[BennyProfane]

They ship. (http://www.paidom.com/shipping.htm)

I am very tempted to try them out as well.

I didn't miss that, but if I tried paying $75 just to have $200 in beef shipped to me here, my wife would file for divorce. And while some might consider that "seasoning" for the beef, I'm not quite to that point yet...

[Jon Rowe]

Rimbo, did you start a flame war over beef?

You got a beef with his beef?

Is this a ... food fight?

[Ed Solomon]

Yeah... so when I made that post in EE warning everyone that I might post something stupid because I was stressed and/or inebriated? "Steak doesn't need salt" is the winner. I don't know what had me sayin' that.

Dude, is you kid still not sleeping? Take him to the doctor already. Maybe he's got an ear ache.

On topic, my grandfather refused to salt beef until after it was cooked. He claimed that salting before cooking dried out the meat.

[WarrenM]

He claimed that salting before cooking dried out the meat.
I guess that would be true if you let it sit for hours since the salt will draw out moisture but salting it afterwards is pretty much a waste of time.

[Bill]

My understanding was that salting it well before hand helps to breakdown the meat, making it more tender. I've never heard the bit about it drying out the meat; I'm skeptical, but don't know.

But why do you think that salting it after cooking is a waste of time? I typically do multiple spice passes on anything, to build up the flavor, including after it's cooked (if necessary).

I was at a restaurant in LA this week that boasted that its beef was corn-fed, something that I don't think I've seen before.

[JPR]

...boasted that its beef was corn-fed, something that I don't think I've seen before.

That's weird -- I've seen that many, many times.

[Reldan]

Alton Brown's opinion of salting meat is that it's best to do it before cooking - it'll allow for a better sear. There's certainly nothing wrong with adding more salt after cooking if you feel it wasn't seasoned enough before, but in a perfect world you'd get it right the first pass. That takes a lot of practical experience.

He actually did an experiment on one of the episodes using cooked weight versus uncooked weight of two steaks, one of which was salted much more in advance than the other. They both lost pretty much the exact same weight after cooking - if the salting was indeed "drying" the meat it would imply extra liquid from the meat was removed, which wasn't the case.

[Rimbo]

My understanding was that salting it well before hand helps to breakdown the meat, making it more tender.

My understanding was that vinegar-based marinades did that work. And in my experience, the meat's better when salted after thawing and before cooking.

I was at a restaurant in LA this week that boasted that its beef was corn-fed, something that I don't think I've seen before.

I've seen it plenty; to me, this is not an advertisement so much as a warning.

[WarrenM]

Yeah, corn fed would be what most cows are and not really what you want.

[WarrenM]

But why do you think that salting it after cooking is a waste of time? I typically do multiple spice passes on anything, to build up the flavor, including after it's cooked (if necessary).
Salting it afterwards eliminates developing a nice crust on the meat which salt is good at doing.

I guess it isn't a waste of time to do it afterwards, but it doesn't contribute nearly as much as it does if added before hitting the heat.

[Ben Sones]

I've seen it plenty; to me, this is not an advertisement so much as a warning.

This is because a lot of people prefer beef that has been fattened on grain. Grass-fed cattle tends to be a lot leaner, with much less of the fat marbling that many feel improves both the flavor and texture of the meat. Some of the most highly regarded beef in the world is fed grain (Kobe beef, for instance), so the idea you've cracked some sort of vast conspiracy to feed people crappy meat is pretty silly. If you prefer grass-fed, that's all well and good. But the world is not divided into "people that agree with you" and "idiots." Some people just prefer a well-marbled steak.

Evolution certainly does, however. Cows, like most animals, have a preferred diet that their bodies are best able to handle. In their case, it's grass and not grain.

But evolution has nothing to do with flavor. Nature did not select cattle attributes based on making them taste better; if anything, selection would likely favor animals that taste like crap, because predators would be more likely to avoid them. Of course, there's little that's natural about modern cattle, which have been domesticated for thousands of years.

I'm not trying to diss grass fed beef, mind you. Personally, I think it's plenty tasty, and has a number of non-taste-related benefits (higher concentrations of vitamins and Omega 3s, lower in saturated fats, less likely to carry e-coli). But grain and corn-fed beef is not dog food.

[Rimbo]

No, but beef raised in the Inland Empire feedlots, that never even taste grass, that are kept wallowing in their own feces and breathe feces-infused air for their entire lives -- which is what the bulk of Southern California gets -- is dog food. And unless Costco's doing something special, that's where they're getting their $10/lb tenderloins.

[Reldan]

No, but beef raised in the Inland Empire feedlots, that never even taste grass, that are kept wallowing in their own feces and breathe feces-infused air for their entire lives -- which is what the bulk of Southern California gets -- is dog food. And unless Costco's doing something special, that's where they're getting their $10/lb tenderloins.

Either that, or it's pretty much the same decent USDA Choice beef you can buy at many steakhouses, supermarkets, and butcher shops, except you can buy the minimally processed entire subprimal and are saving money because you're going to do the butchering yourself.

Also, why do you hate Costco? It's not like we're talking about Wal-Mart here.

[WarrenM]

This is because a lot of people prefer beef that has been fattened on grain. Grass-fed cattle tends to be a lot leaner, with much less of the fat marbling that many feel improves both the flavor and texture of the meat. Some of the most highly regarded beef in the world is fed grain (Kobe beef, for instance), so the idea you've cracked some sort of vast conspiracy to feed people crappy meat is pretty silly.
AFAIK, cattle are fed corn because it's cheaper than grazing them properly on grass. It's not a choice born of taste or peoples preferences.

[Rimbo]

Either that, or it's pretty much the same decent USDA Choice beef you can buy at many steakhouses, supermarkets, and butcher shops, except you can buy the minimally processed entire subprimal and are saving money because you're going to do the butchering yourself.

Also, why do you hate Costco? It's not like we're talking about Wal-Mart here.

Ehrm... I don't think you quite get it.

I live in Southern California.

Most of the beef in SoCal comes from the Inland Empire, whether it's purchased from Costco, Albertson's or the local restaurant-supply store.

The cows there live and breathe in their own shit for their entire lives.

You're in Wisconsin. Guess what? You're near states with actual pastures, as opposed to desert that was converted into feedlots. The stuff you get at your local stores probably had a relatively clean life and might even have tasted grass at some point; if not, you can probably find said beef without much difficulty at all.

I'm not hating on Costco in specific, just that my local Costco doesn't get their beef from any place different than any other local store, except for places like Whole Foods which -- at a major premium -- will fly it in from e.g. Nebraska so that rich hippies can get their "organic" meat. Everywhere else in LA and San Diego, it's Shit Infused Beef!

It's a local thing, not a Costco thing, and if you don't live in SoCal it's probably not an issue. It's just that in my case, I had at worst grain-finished beef most of my childhood, because I grew up right smack dab in the middle of hereford-rich pastureland.

[Reldan]

AFAIK, cattle are fed corn because it's cheaper than grazing them properly on grass. It's not a choice born of taste or peoples preferences.

While this is true, corn and grain-fed cattle do have more marbling than grass-fed cattle. For many beef preparations, notably for steaks, this increased marbling leads to more tenderness as the fat renders within the meat during cooking.

One other advantage to buying an entire PSMO - it comes vacuum-sealed straight from the butcher and can last weeks refrigerated, needing never to be frozen. Freezing is something I greatly prefer to never do with steaks.

[Rimbo]

AFAIK, cattle are fed corn because it's cheaper than grazing them properly on grass. It's not a choice born of taste or peoples preferences.

Also, cows get more fat in less time when fed corn; since USDA ratings are geared toward fat percentage and "marbling," corn gets you a higher rating faster than grass does. (Which is just another way of saying what you said.)

[Hanzii]

My understanding was that vinegar-based marinades did that work. And in my experience, the meat's better when salted after thawing and before cooking.


All this talk about proper meat... why the fuck are you freezing it?
Freezing certainly doesn't improve meat.

I agree with Ben, though. And I think one reason grass feed beef taste better to many is due to those other factors - I like to buy organic meat. Whether the feed is organic grass or organic grain/corn isn't as important.

Buying organic (at least here) tells me the cow been living it's life in a field and not tied up in a stable. That's it's been excercised. That it hasn't eaten a lot of pesticides. And that it hasn't been pumped full of antibiotics to combat all the diseases that being tied up in a stable brings.

[Reldan]

You're in Wisconsin. Guess what? You're near states with actual pastures, as opposed to desert that was converted into feedlots. The stuff you get at your local stores probably had a relatively clean life and might even have tasted grass at some point; if not, you can probably find said beef without much difficulty at all.

I grew up in AN Inland Empire - eastern Washington actually. I do know what you mean though, and yes, the beef here in Wisconsin is vastly superior. I've only been out here for a few years actually. Our cheese kicks ass too.

I knew it was going to be awesome the first time I stepped into one of our supermarkets and realized they sold 8 different types of ground beef - ground round, ground chuck, ground sirloin, and ground "beef", along with "certified angus" versions of each of these.

Look on the bright side though - at least you have access to seafood.

[Rimbo]

All this talk about proper meat... why the fuck are you freezing it?
Freezing certainly doesn't improve meat.

I don't when I can get away with it. But since I have to have it shipped from somewhere if it's going to be any good, it's gonna get frozen at some point.

[Rimbo]

I grew up in AN Inland Empire - eastern Washington actually. I do know what you mean though, and yes, the beef here in Wisconsin is vastly superior. I've only been out here for a few years actually. Our cheese kicks ass too.

Aye. The Cheese is amazing. Beer cheese soup in Milwaukee... mmm.

Look on the bright side though - at least you have access to seafood.

True that. Even Japanese head to Sushi Ota in San Diego for the Hamachi. And I once had local spiny lobster sashimi at Ota that melted like butter... amazing.

But I'm a beef kid, a landlubber at heart. I miss what I grew up with.

[Ben Sones]

AFAIK, cattle are fed corn because it's cheaper than grazing them properly on grass. It's not a choice born of taste or peoples preferences.

That's true now. But the reason the cattle industry originally transitioned to corn-feeding was absolutely because that's what the market preferred. Corn-fed was the only type of beef that restaurants wanted to buy, so that's the direction the cattle industry went. It used to be more expensive to produce, too, but rising costs of land used for pasturing and the cost savings introduced by industrial feedlots reversed that.

Lately, we've been getting our steaks from these guys (http://www.sevenbridgesfarm.com), a local farm. They do feed their cattle grain in addition to grass and natural forage, but the cows never spend any time in a feedlot, and they are organic and free-range. They make for some damn good steaks... Karen refers to it as "eating our neighbors."

[WarrenM]

That's true now. But the reason the cattle industry originally transitioned to corn-feeding was absolutely because that's what the market preferred.
Not saying you're wrong, but what I've read tells me that this happened because of the government subsidizing corn growers which lead to a corn surplus which lead to the food industry needing a way to use up the corn so they would continue receiving the government checks. Feeding it to the cattle was a natural step. Now the beef is cheaper to produce, the price of beef comes down for the consumer, and the cycle repeats getting ever stronger. I don't know if that's correct but it's what I've read.

[Mookee]

Not saying you're wrong, but what I've read tells me that this happened because of the government subsidizing corn growers which lead to a corn surplus which lead to the food industry needing a way to use up the corn so they would continue receiving the government checks. Feeding it to the cattle was a natural step. Now the beef is cheaper to produce, the price of beef comes down for the consumer, and the cycle repeats getting ever stronger. I don't know if that's correct but it's what I've read.

Yep, meet Earl Butz: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Butz

[Marcus Walser]

I realize I'm a page late to this party but salt does not break down muscle fibers in the time it takes to cook a steak. If you excessively brine meat it will fall apart, but if you dry salt it, it'll become tough and possibly brittle. Salt doesn't contribute to crust development, either - it can really only inhibit it.

Salting a steak ahead of time is a bad idea unless you have about forty minutes; if you salt the steak, say, between five and twenty minutes before cooking, you'll end up with a puddle of water on the surface of the steak. This will absolutely inhibit the production of a flavorful crust; your meat will steam, not sear. Additionally, the salt will not have been absorbed into the meat, so if you have half a brain and wipe off the puddle of water on your meat, you'll wipe away all of your salt and pepper as well.

The salt pulls the water out of the meat, but once the water is on the surface of the meat, it dissolves the salt and a concentration gradient becomes apparent, which allows the now-salt-laden liquid to osmose back into the meat. This process takes around forty minutes - twenty minutes for the salt to pull the requisite amount of water out of the meat, and twenty minutes for the water to dissolve the salt and be re-absorbed into the muscle fibers.

So basically, salt your meat immediately before cooking unless you have a bit to wait. Since it's good to pull steaks out of the fridge an hour or so in advance of cooking, go ahead and salt them immediately after taking them out - that way you get a juicier steak, and no surface water to inhibit browning.

Dude, is you kid still not sleeping? Take him to the doctor already. Maybe he's got an ear ache.

On topic, my grandfather refused to salt beef until after it was cooked. He claimed that salting before cooking dried out the meat.

Your grandfather was half right, basically.


I guess it isn't a waste of time to do it afterwards, but it doesn't contribute nearly as much as it does if added before hitting the heat.

This is essentially correct. Meat should almost always be seasoned prior to cooking - otherwise you just taste salt. If you like the taste of salt, that's obviously fine, but it's not Good Eats. (:-P) Certain dishes, especially vegetables and starches, can be successfully seasoned to taste after cooking, but they should also be seasoned DURING cooking - the final "to taste" seasoning should be a small adjustment.

[wildpokerman]

So why is this in P&R?

Vegan for life!

http://www.peta.org/

OK now it qualifies.

[Midnight Son]

Grass fed beef in a red leather booth. Overpriced luxury car. Skinny chick with fake tits.

I saw the commercial for this!

[WarrenM]

Salting a steak ahead of time is a bad idea unless you have about forty minutes; if you salt the steak, say, between five and twenty minutes before cooking, you'll end up with a puddle of water on the surface of the steak. This will absolutely inhibit the production of a flavorful crust; your meat will steam, not sear. Additionally, the salt will not have been absorbed into the meat, so if you have half a brain and wipe off the puddle of water on your meat, you'll wipe away all of your salt and pepper as well.
What's the basis for this? Everything I've ever read (or anyone I've ever talked to) on cooking steaks says to salt/pepper before cooking but they've never specified doing it 40 minutes ahead of time.

[Bill]

Salting a steak ahead of time is a bad idea unless you have about forty minutes; if you salt the steak, say, between five and twenty minutes before cooking, you'll end up with a puddle of water on the surface of the steak. This will absolutely inhibit the production of a flavorful crust; your meat will steam, not sear. Additionally, the salt will not have been absorbed into the meat, so if you have half a brain and wipe off the puddle of water on your meat, you'll wipe away all of your salt and pepper as well.


Interesting. Would this also be true if the steak is cooked on an open grill? I would think that the water would just evaporate/drip off in that situation.

[skedastic]

if you're eating the right beef, salt is unnecessary

No. No. No.

[wisefool]

I hate to do it, but I agree with Rimbo on one thing - not salting steaks.

Sometimes I get dragged to these Brazillian-style churrasquerias and they flaunt 27 different cuts, all with the same shitty heavy sauce. WTF.

You know how the recipes say 'season to taste'? (not that I ever would do something as phillistine as follow a recipe) If you get used to eating a low/no-sodium diet, you don't need to add salt. Your tongue gets used to picking up flavour from anything. I even eat sashimi sans sauce.

my steak: crunchy on the outside and bloody on the inside (ymmv):

Start preheating the pan. Use corn oil, cause olive is a wimpy oil that will scorch at 320 farenheit. (http://bbq.about.com/od/grillinghelp/a/aa061607a.htm)
Take steak and wash surface a bit to get rid of the feces Rimbo hates.
Get garlic. Mash it up. Get a tiny amount of whatever sauce you like, like five drops. (soy, lee and perkins wostershire, vinegar). Careful if you use sesame cause that will scorch too.

Oh yeah, put oil on pan now. Wait a bit and get it real hot. Put steak in. Move the steak a bit (don't flip) so it doesn't stick. Wait a bit depending on how thick it is. When your mouth starts drooling and the fat looks nice and tasty, you flip the steak, wait like 30 seconds to get a nice sear on the second side. then take the thing out and eat it.

[Ben Sones]

Not even Rimbo agrees with Rimbo about that. I won't argue that you can't get used to eating foods with little or no salt, because people do. But the reason why you have to get used to it is because properly seasoned food tastes better.

In addition, in the specific case of meats, salt greatly assists in browning by drawing water-soluble proteins to the surface of the meat. These proteins are the key component in the Maillard reaction. Can you get a sear on a piece of meat without seasoning? Sure. Will it be as good as the crust that you'd get on a properly seasoned piece of meat? No.

Edit: Also, one doesn't dip sashimi into wasabi-joyu merely for flavor. Wasabi is an antimicrobial, antibacterial, and antiparasitic agent (studies have shown it to be particularly effective at killing the Anisakis parasite, which is found in raw fish).

[Bad Neighbor]

I am going to be cooking 8 New York strip steaks using this (http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/sirloin-steak-recipe/index.html) method. Anyone got a problem with it?

[Reldan]

I hate to do it, but I agree with Rimbo on one thing - not salting steaks.

Sometimes I get dragged to these Brazillian-style churrasquerias and they flaunt 27 different cuts, all with the same shitty heavy sauce. WTF.

You know how the recipes say 'season to taste'? (not that I ever would do something as phillistine as follow a recipe) If you get used to eating a low/no-sodium diet, you don't need to add salt. Your tongue gets used to picking up flavour from anything. I even eat sashimi sans sauce.

my steak: crunchy on the outside and bloody on the inside (ymmv):

Start preheating the pan. Use corn oil, cause olive is a wimpy oil that will scorch at 320 farenheit. (http://bbq.about.com/od/grillinghelp/a/aa061607a.htm)
Take steak and wash surface a bit to get rid of the feces Rimbo hates.
Get garlic. Mash it up. Get a tiny amount of whatever sauce you like, like five drops. (soy, lee and perkins wostershire, vinegar). Careful if you use sesame cause that will scorch too.

Oh yeah, put oil on pan now. Wait a bit and get it real hot. Put steak in. Move the steak a bit (don't flip) so it doesn't stick. Wait a bit depending on how thick it is. When your mouth starts drooling and the fat looks nice and tasty, you flip the steak, wait like 30 seconds to get a nice sear on the second side. then take the thing out and eat it.

There is a lot about this that I find questionable. Ben already went into detail about WHY you salt steak before cooking, so I'm not going to go there again.

However.

There's nothing wrong with using olive oil to cook a steak. Don't use extra-virgin olive oil. A blend of olive oil and butter is actually pretty ideal. Corn oil is pretty low on my list of oils I'd use for searing a steak.

Also, after you put the steak in the hot pan, DON'T MOVE IT AROUND. If you move it, you've irreversibly doomed your steak to a substandard crust. If you're using the proper pan for doing this (a properly seasoned cast-iron pan) you aren't going to worry about the steak getting stuck.

[skedastic]

More tips:

- Don't use soy sauce or any other liquid to season a steak before cooking. The liquid will prevent a proper crust from forming. Not only should you not add liquid, you should carefully pat the steak dry before seasoning it.

- Don't add minced garlic before cooking, it'll just carbonize and taste awful.

- If you can get a nice crust in 30 seconds the pan is way, way too hot. Unless you're cooking a very thin steak (why bother), it'll still be blue in the middle. It should take two or three minutes to get a nice crust.

- Let stand for an hour before preparing to bring to room temperature.

- Cut slices in fatty edges so the steak doesn't curl up in the pan as it cooks.

- Season generously with salt, pepper, and olive oil before cooking.

- Brush with olive oil or butter and season with more pepper after cooking. Juicing a lemon over top of the cooked meat is also good.

- After cooking, let the streak stand for at least ten minutes. If you cut it right away, all the juices will run out.

Now I'm off to the butcher.

[Marcus Walser]

Interesting. Would this also be true if the steak is cooked on an open grill? I would think that the water would just evaporate/drip off in that situation.

You don't want it to evaporate, because that's heat energy that could be browning your steak, and instead, it's not. It's best to have the surface of any meat that's being seared or grilled dry when you start cooking it.

What's the basis for this? Everything I've ever read (or anyone I've ever talked to) on cooking steaks says to salt/pepper before cooking but they've never specified doing it 40 minutes ahead of time.

Extensive testing at my place of employment. ;-)



Q. Should I add salt and pepper to meat before or after cooking?

We have repeatedly warned against seasoning steaks until right before they’re going to hit the pan. Past tests have proved that salt left sitting on the surface of meat will merely draw out moisture through a process known as osmosis. This is detrimental for developing any kind of brown, flavorful crust while searing the steak, no matter how hot the pan; the meat essentially steams in its own juice. But recent testing has caused us to reverse this opinion, at least partially: salting meat for long periods of time improves flavor without adversely affecting the crust formation, as the salt actually penetrates beyond the surface of the meat.

While we found the deepest flavor occurred after salting for about 4 hours, we wanted to see just how long it took for the salt to initially become absorbed into the meat. After 20 minutes the salt had dissolved in the layer of liquid that it had drawn to the surface of the meat. This salty liquid then broke down and loosened some of the dense fibers in the meat, allowing the meat to reabsorb both its own liquid, and the salt—a process that took another 20 minutes. This same 40-minute time frame extended to different cuts of beef (from loose, fibrous cuts such as flank, to the compact, lean tenderloin), as well as lamb chops and (unbrined) pork chops.

So when pan-searing, don’t be afraid to season steaks and chops ahead of time—just be sure you have at least 40 minutes to wait for the moisture and salt to be added back into the equation.

[Bad Neighbor]

I would like to announce that the steaks were fantastic.

[WarrenM]

Marcus

Huh, cool! I'll definitely give that a shot the next time we do steaks. Thanks for the info!

[wildpokerman]

More tips:

- Don't use soy sauce or any other liquid to season a steak before cooking. The liquid will prevent a proper crust from forming. Not only should you not add liquid, you should carefully pat the steak dry before seasoning it.

- Season generously with salt, pepper, and olive oil before cooking.



So do the oils aid in cooking and by liquid you mean watery liquid like soy sauce or teriakki sauce? I'm a bit confused because oils are liquid. Can you use seasoned oils if you want the same flavors as a water based sauce?

[skedastic]

Sorry, when I said "liquids" I had "water-based liquids" in mind. Oils are fine.

On that note, my favorite way to prepare steaks is to marinate them with loads of olive oil, roasted peppers, roasted jalepenos, and roasted garlic for 48 hours. Which, unfortunately, requires that you plan your meal two days in advance.

[Rimbo]

My favorite dry rub is:
- Rosemary
- Crushed garlic
- Crushed black pepper
- Salt
- ground dry mustard
- olive oil
blended into a paste.

You can then make a good dipping sauce using mayo, horseradish and chopped green onions/chives.

But I also prefer to pan-sear my steaks rather than cook them any other way. That way you can deglaze the pan with cooking wine/sherry and make a sauce out of it with extra soup (or water or beer or what-have-ya) and shallots or a similar oniony vegetable. Yum :)

But also cooking this way, you turn the heat up and let it cook for less time. That way you get that blackened outside (assuming you put dry rub on it) and juicy, red inside. :)

[Andrew Mayer]

As I've recently started eating beef again after a 20 year hiatus,

I'm wondering how long you let the sear? I've been running it at three to four minutes per side on an iron skillet, but I have to admit that it's coming out a little too rare for my taste.

My chef friend says that most restaurant steaks are finished in the oven... Any thoughts?

I'd also like to point out that this has become the most civil discussion in the history of P&R: The Little Endians and the Big Endians seem to all agree!

[Reldan]

As I've recently started eating beef again after a 20 year hiatus,

I'm wondering how long you let the sear? I've been running it at three to four minutes per side on an iron skillet, but I have to admit that it's coming out a little too rare for my taste.

My chef friend says that most restaurant steaks are finished in the oven... Any thoughts?

I'd also like to point out that this has become the most civil discussion in the history of P&R: The Little Endians and the Big Endians seem to all agree!

3-4 minutes per side is right on the money for a good combination of a sear and getting the steak cooked, but depending on the thickness this isn't ideal if you aren't interested in a Rare or Medium-Rare doneness. You can't really sear for much longer than this without burning, and that's just not good.

Here's an idea from Alton Brown regarding cooking 1.5" thick cuts:

Place 10 to 12-inch cast iron skillet in oven and heat oven to 500 degrees. Bring steak(s) to room temperature.

When oven reaches temperature, remove pan and place on range over high heat. Coat steak lightly with oil and season both sides with a generous pinch of salt. Grind on black pepper to taste.

Immediately place steak in the middle of hot, dry pan. Cook 30 seconds without moving. Turn with tongs and cook another 30 seconds, then put the pan straight into the oven for 2 minutes. Flip steak and cook for another 2 minutes. (This time is for medium rare steaks. If you prefer medium, add a minute to both of the oven turns.)
Remove steak from pan, cover loosely with foil, and rest for 2 minutes. Serve whole or slice thin and fan onto plate.

I haven't used this method on steaks, but I have made fajitas out of marinated flank steak like this before and the results were quite good.

[Talisker]

The Alton Brown approach Reldan quoted above makes the best damn ribeyes I've ever prepared. They're absolutely outstanding.

[Hanzii]

After watching that episode of Good Eats I began using Altons method and I've never had better steaks. That and paying attention to the meat you use.

[Rimbo]

One thing I do is heat the plates in the oven. Then I cover the steak when pan-searing. Do that for 3 minutes per side, and then let the steak sit on the warmed plate, covered, while you deglaze and make sauce. The steak will continue cooking -- especially if it's a leaner cut.

[WarrenM]

Re: The Alton Brown method.

Coat steak lightly with oil and season both sides with a generous pinch of salt.
As a heads up, despite what he says in the aired episode he is NOT talking about olive oil. Not at all. I had an apartment full of smoke when I first tried it.

[Hanzii]

In the aired episode he took great care of telling why not to use olive oil using actual science and stuff.

[WarrenM]

In the aired episode he took great care of telling why not to use olive oil using actual science and stuff.
It may have been edited or something because I was watching the episode via TiVo while doing the steak and he clearly advocated olive oil. Unless I'm remembering wrong somehow. I've talked to other people who had the same experience I did.

[Post-It]

When I sear I use peanut oil. It doesn't smoke too much.

[Reldan]

The preparation I quoted above says to use canola oil, although any highly processed oil should work fine. I'm also partial to using peanut oil for something like this.

He does advocate using olive oil in some preparations. The recipe for broiled sirloins Cat Master linked calls for olive oil. Searing with olive oil indoors though is an easy way to reach your smoke inhalation quota for the month in just a few minutes.

[Ergo]

If you're searing the steaks for a nice crust, do NOT use olive oil, unless you like a lot of smoke in your kitchen (as EpicBoy explained). Canola or peanut oil are best.

[skedastic]

Not sure about that. Extra virgin olive oil may or may not be a problem. More heavily refined olive oils are definitely not a problem.

If I'm going to pour oil in a pan and heat it before adding a target food, it's probably not going to be pure extra virgin olive oil. If I'm just going to rub a little oil into the surface before tossing into a dry pan, I don't think extra virgin olive oil is a problem, although I doubt it adds much to the taste (it's mostly convenience). Theory: even heavily saturated fats will melt at about 160 but extra virgin olive oil doesn't start to smoke until at least 320 and possibly much higher than that. By the time the oil you've rubbed into the meat hits the smoking point, there's probably more melted fat from the meat than there is oil, so essentially you're using the combination, not just oil.

I've just been looking up smoke points of various oils and there's surprisingly little consistency in the reports. I tend to think that, at least for some brands of EVOO (sigh. Rachael Ray wins) the smoke point is actually pretty high. This "cooking for engineers" site (http://www.cookingforengineers.com/article/50/Smoke-Points-of-Various-Fats) lists EVOO's smoke point at 320 but then lists "high quality (low acid) EVOO" at 405. Which seems weird to me because I thought that EVOO was in part defined in terms of having low acidity. ( Edit: and then it's there again, without explanation, at 468. ?? )

Maybe the next time I sear something I'll try a highly scientific experiment and use several types of oil, making sure to remember to take the battery out of the smoke detector first.

[Hanzii]

It may have been edited or something because I was watching the episode via TiVo while doing the steak and he clearly advocated olive oil. Unless I'm remembering wrong somehow. I've talked to other people who had the same experience I did.


"because we're cooking with such high heat the kind of oil we're using is important"
He then goes into the whole smoking point thing and uses canola oil for his steak (the episode is 'Steak your claim'). He lists smoking points as.

Butter 350
Olive 375
Corn 410
Canola 435
Peanut 450
Safflower 450

He used kosher salt, canola oil (decent amount of salt and a few drops of oil) chucks the steak on a very hot skillet, sears on side for 30 seconds (NO TOUCHING) and the other for 30 seconds and then puts skilet and steak into a 500 degree oven for 2 minutes on each side.
Which gives him a nice medium rare steak.

(I had the entire season one stored)

I'm looking forward to your research Skedastic.

[WarrenM]

I guess I was wrong then. I was looking right at the television at the time so I'm not sure how I misheard but alright.

[Reldan]

He also had an episode discussing fats where he said that the commonly listed smoke points for oils are pretty much huey because it isn't like they are set in stone. How fresh the oil is or how it was processed can make one man's bottle of olive oil drastically different from another man's. It's not like with water where 212 F means boil and 32 F means ice.

The best you can go with are generalizations, such as "peanut and safflower have very high smoke points and are awesome for searing/stir-frying" or "olive oil and butter are flavorful but don't sear/stir-fry with them".

[Andrew Mayer]

I was thinking of trying ghee...

Should give you the best of both worlds.

[Marcus Walser]

It's not like with water where 212 F means boil and 32 F means ice.


Sure, if you're at sea level.

:-P

Much love for Alton Brown, but I find his cooking method to be somewhat lackluster. It works great for thinner cuts, but if you want a truly imposing steak, you want a slightly different method. This method also gets rid of the unsightly grey area between the seared exterior and the medium-rare interior; it works best on steaks between 1 1/2" and 2" thick. If you cook your steaks past medium-rare you are a Communist.

Season your steaks liberally with salt and pepper. Do the 40-minute rest thing I talked about earlier in the thread here. Preheat your oven to 275*. Cook the steaks in the 275* oven until they read roughly 90* on an instant-read thermometer. For inch-and-a-half steaks, this will take around 20 minutes. Remove the steaks to a wire rack to rest.

In your trusty skillet, heat just enough oil to film the bottom until smoking (about a tablespoon for a 12" skillet). Sear the steaks until well-browned, about two minutes. Flip and repeat on the other side. Reduce the heat at this point, as you're also going to want to sear the sides. Do this by stacking the steaks together, holding them sideways with tongs and placing them in the pan. Use the tongs to steady the steaks during cooking. If at any point your fond begins to burn, turn the heat down.

By gently cooking the steak in the oven first, you're doing three things - one, you're concentrating flavor by reducing the moisture content of the beef. While this may seems crazy - won't your steak be less juicy? - it's actually not. What it does do, though, is allow the protease enzymes already extant in the meat to be active throughout cooking. You are, in effect, dry-aging the steak in the oven in twenty minutes. Two, you're thoroughly drying the exterior of the meat, allowing for a better crust. Lastly, you're raising the temperature of the steak considerably, which drastically reduces its sear time. This last one is key; it all but eliminates the grey band of overcooked meat.

[Hanzii]

I disagree. The cut he used was pretty thick and I've tried it plenty of times since.
It's not rocket science and it works (not saying your method doesn't since I haven't tried it).

[BennyProfane]

Thread necromancy, but for a good reason.

Now that I'm back in Michigan full time, and since I didn't want to have to have beef shipped halfway across the country and pay the shipping charges, I initiated a search for a local source.

http://www.tmzfarm.com/

Very local, in fact. Maybe 10 miles from my house, if not closer. And they are opening a farm store here in A2 sometime next year, less than 6 blocks from my house, with not only beef and buffalo, but range-raised chicken and other meats, as well as produce, etc.

[DragonPup]

I was disappointed that there were no stories about Britney on that website, Benny.

[Machfive]

Benny, what part of Michigan you in, A2?

[BennyProfane]

I was disappointed that there were no stories about Britney on that website, Benny.

LOL I made the same mistake the first try. TMZ.com is NOT the same as TMZfarm.com

Yes, I live in Ann Arbor.

[Qenan]

Reading stuff like this always makes me think I should be a vegetarian.

[Brendan]

Just my 2c on cooking steak. a steak must be seasoned with a little Worcester Sauce, salt, pepper and be cooked medium rare.

[Brad Grenz]

I like Worcester, too. Just a little dribble over the steak after cooking.

[Bad Neighbor]

I reserve the Worcestershire for my hamburgers and sauces, and only when I'm being lazy or the fat content of the beef is high.

[Athryn]

http://www.seriouseats.com/images/20081110-emocows.jpg

[Brendan]

I reserve the Worcestershire for my hamburgers and sauces, and only when I'm being lazy or the fat content of the beef is high.

If I may ask, what is the culinary reason for only using Worcester sauce on fatty beef?

[Bad Neighbor]

Whenever I cook burgers that are a high in fat, they tend to be a little dry and flavorless, as if the fat that cooks off is taking more than its share with it. Worcestershire returns some of both. The other reason is that using Worcestershire is kind of cheating, so I feel guilty using it on the more expensive stuff. I guess it would make more sense to say "Kroger ground beef" instead of "fatty beef", since that would satisfy both reasons.

I just woke up, so I might not be following my previous train of thought very well.

[F. Nutz Wilson]

Whenever I cook burgers that are a high in fat, they tend to be a little dry and flavorless, as if the fat that cooks off is taking more than its share with it. Worcestershire returns some of both. The other reason is that using Worcestershire is kind of cheating, so I feel guilty using it on the more expensive stuff. I guess it would make more sense to say "Kroger ground beef" instead of "fatty beef", since that would satisfy both reasons.

I just woke up, so I might not be following my previous train of thought very well.


you must be bending space and time to have your high fat burger turn out exactly the opposite of how it is for everyone else in the universe

[WarrenM]

Yeah, generally fat leads to moisture and flavor ... what's going on your grill?

[Bill]

Yeah, that's bizarre. Coincidentally I was even just telling someone yesterday to add soy or worschesterhsire sauce to burgers made from lean meat because it adds moisture (minced garlic helps too!).

[Bad Neighbor]

I think what my brain was doing was imagining the fat cooking off the beef, and thus the flavor going with it. This is one of the many times where I used the wrong words but can't really trace the train of thought that brought me there. Please do not allow my burger cooking statements to be cause for concern in regard to my cooking skill in general. I really don't know what the hell I meant by it.