The Dark Knight

[Houngan]

I was browsing rottentomatoes.com, and the ten early reviews for the film are so gushing they make a Pixar film look like a Michael Bay film. Apparently this is the best Batman ever, the best comic book movie ever, the best movie of the year, an instant classic, and something that Martin Scorsese wishes he had directed. It's Nolan's masterpiece, and a gritty crime movie set in Gotham, superheroes are secondary. It cures the clap and gives you fresh breath.

Since I can't bring myself to go to the movies any more, I eagerly await your reviews. Which I won't read until it's out on video and I've seen it.

H.

[Funkman]

Alright, so can this be the official Dark Knight thread? Come on guys, lets pull together and do this.

I for one will be there opening night as I've been looking foward to this movie for over a year. So yeah, I am tremendously excited, and I don't care who knows it.

[Morkilus]

You can't bring yourself to go to the movies anymore? Many theaters nowadays have a "21 and older" showing, if it's the kids/teens that bother you. I like to go to here (http://www.brewvies.com/) for that reason. Also, the wide aisles with the bar. Not for the beer and chicken wings, nope.

[Balasarius]

I'm not super-experienced with RT, but it seems most pre-release reviews they post are glowing.

Looking forward to this one, though.

[Andrew Mayer]

I've already purchased my tickets for the Saturday IMax showing at the SF Metreon.

The 3:30am showing on Thursday is also available.

[Houngan]

You can't bring yourself to go to the movies anymore? Many theaters nowadays have a "21 and older" showing, if it's the kids/teens that bother you. I like to go to here (http://www.brewvies.com/) for that reason. Also, the wide aisles with the bar. Not for the beer and chicken wings, nope.

It's everyone. I'm just hyper-sensitive to human voices, unfortunately.

H.

[Houngan]

Alright, so can this be the official Dark Knight thread? Come on guys, lets pull together and do this.



I searched, and the others were mostly Ledger threads. I dub thee "thread."

H.

[Bahimiron]

My girlfriend is out of the country for the next month, so I donno where I'm gonna see this. I'd feel weird driving a half hour out to Natick just to see it at IMAX by myself.

[nabeel]

New thread?

http://www.danielsjourney.com/blog/files/2007/12/fry-see-what-you-did-there-scaled.jpg

It'll never work!

[Gladguy]

It's everyone. I'm just hyper-sensitive to human voices, unfortunately.

H.
Guess that makes you a "super-hearer."

[Houngan]

Guess that makes you a "super-hearer."

No, just fucking annoyed all the time.

H.

[Kareem]

I'm glad there's a new thread. Discussing the movie in a thread that touts the wrong actor as Two Face would have been a terrible misfortune.

[Wallapuctus]

The initial buzz I'm reading is that Heath Ledger will be a serious Oscar contender for his portrayal of the Joker. I can't wait to see it.

I'm torn about the Imax. I saw Spider-Man 3 at the Natick, MA Imax and the action sequences were giving me headaches. The characters were so big and moving so fast I had to try to follow the action by physically moving my head. As a result, I couldn't figure out what the hell was going on for half the movie.

I saw Beowulf there and it was a completely different story, it was wonderful (to watch). That movie was made with the Imax in mind, though.

[Coca Cola Zero]

My annoyance with the movie theatre experience has also grown over time, but not going to see a movie like The Dark Knight is just ridiculous. Wait until it has been out 3 weeks and then go see it on a Tuesday night. It'll be just you and like 3 senior citizens, and they aren't going to make a peep, I swear.

[Brendan]

...The initial buzz I'm reading is that Heath Ledger will be a serious Oscar contender for his portrayal of the Joker...

I can't wait to hear that acceptance speech.

"..."

[Kunikos]

I'd imagine that if Heath at least gets nominated there will be some kind of montage during the Oscars to commemorate his life.

Also, whats the deal with the animated thing, Gotham Knight (http://www.warnervideo.com/batmangothamknight/)? It's like the Animatrix or whatever?

[Alan Dunkin]

There's going to be a montage anyway.

--- Alan

[Funkman]

Also, whats the deal with the animated thing, Gotham Knight (http://www.warnervideo.com/batmangothamknight/)? It's like the Animatrix or whatever?

Hey hey hey.. get that stuff outta here. We have a thread for that! I think from now on I'm going to be the Batman thread cop, just to keep things straight.

Also, have you guys seen the 15 or so TV spots floating around on the net? Because.. they make me happy to be alive.

[Houngan]

My annoyance with the movie theatre experience has also grown over time, but not going to see a movie like The Dark Knight is just ridiculous. Wait until it has been out 3 weeks and then go see it on a Tuesday night. It'll be just you and like 3 senior citizens, and they aren't going to make a peep, I swear.

The hell of it is that I love the movies, I just can't stand that people can't be quiet for two hours in a row. Foam earplugs help, since the movies are played at seismic volume levels anyway.

H.

[Andrew Mayer]

The guy behind me at Wanted had the most amazing wet, hacking cough.

[Bahimiron]

Also, whats the deal with the animated thing, Gotham Knight (http://www.warnervideo.com/batmangothamknight/)? It's like the Animatrix or whatever?

Yes. (http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=45590)5

[Wholly Schmidt]

The initial buzz I'm reading is that Heath Ledger will be a serious Oscar contender for his portrayal of the Joker. I can't wait to see it.

I'm torn about the Imax. I saw Spider-Man 3 at the Natick, MA Imax and the action sequences were giving me headaches. The characters were so big and moving so fast I had to try to follow the action by physically moving my head. As a result, I couldn't figure out what the hell was going on for half the movie.

I saw Beowulf there and it was a completely different story, it was wonderful (to watch). That movie was made with the Imax in mind, though.
Wasn't this specifically filmed with some IMAX technology, or something? The last movie I saw in IMAX was actually Batman Begins, so I'm definitely making a pilgrimage to a theater for this one as well, but it won't be where I see it opening night.

[Wholly Schmidt]

There's going to be a montage anyway.

--- Alan

We already got one at the last Oscars, didn't we?

[Kaigen]

Wasn't this specifically filmed with some IMAX technology, or something? The last movie I saw in IMAX was actually Batman Begins, so I'm definitely making a pilgrimage to a theater for this one as well, but it won't be where I see it opening night.

Certain key sequences were actually shot with an IMAX camera. Apparently during these sequences the aspect ratio will change on IMAX screens, and the picture will be notably more vivid.

[Enduro_Man]

Certain key sequences were actually shot with an IMAX camera. Apparently during these sequences the aspect ratio will change on IMAX screens, and the picture will be notably more vivid.
You'll know them when you see them, since Christian Bale points at the camera and shouts, "Put on your BatGoggles now!"

[nabeel]

Also, have you guys seen the 15 or so TV spots floating around on the net? Because.. they make me happy to be alive.
Other than the teaser and the initial trailer I've avoided every bit of footage since, which has taken quite a bit of restraint for me.

[jeansberg]

Didn't see this posted anywhere. Link (http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2008/07/batmobile-toyota-f1-race-car-wallpapers.html)

Apparently they took the batmobile and batpod to a Formula 1 track for a demonstration.

http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/3475/batmobile12wy8.th.jpg (http://img77.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batmobile12wy8.jpg)

[Wallapuctus]

Wasn't this specifically filmed with some IMAX technology, or something? The last movie I saw in IMAX was actually Batman Begins, so I'm definitely making a pilgrimage to a theater for this one as well, but it won't be where I see it opening night.

I hadn't heard that before, but now that I have I'm considering the IMAX again.

The other advantage the IMAX has is that it's so expensive and has such limited seating that the audience is usually quite tolerable.

[Geo]

I'm taking a few days off. I told my boss one reason was so I could catch a midnight show of TDK on June 17 (technically 18th) without worrying about work the next day. She said that sounded, "horrible." Such is the generation gap, even if I am 43. :)

Back in 2005 I caught a midnight show of Batman Begins, after seeing Mr. and Mrs. Smith simply to waste some time before it. Leaving a theater at 3 a.m. was strange, but I had a great time. And it feels like I oughta try doing it again for this. :)

I don't have an IMAX near to me, but according to the official site, a few theaters in my region in Virginia are adding IMAX screens (well, one at each multiplex) this month and later.

[Alan Dunkin]

So only parts of the film were done in IMAX, usually the big action sequences.

There's an article about it all at http://www.wired.com/entertainment/hollywood/magazine/16-07/ff_darknight.

--- Alan

[madkevin]

I'm taking a few days off. I told my boss one reason was so I could catch a midnight show of TDK on June 17 (technically 18th) without worrying about work the next day. She said that sounded, "horrible." Such is the generation gap, even if I am 43. :)

You should have seen the look on my boss' face when I told her I was taking time off to play GTA IV.

[Niclas]

An earlier draft for The Dark Knight has been leaked. Pretty interesting read.

Link. (http://my.spill.com/profiles/blog/show?id=947994%3ABlogPost%3A355506)

[Anaxagoras]

You should have seen the look on my boss' face when I told her I was taking time off to play GTA IV.


Seems reasonable to me. Those hookers aren't going to kill themselves, you know.

[Kareem]

Some theaters have 6 AM screenings (holy shit) to keep up with demand:

http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2008/07/are_you_read_to_see_the_dark_k.html

[Rob_Merritt]

I would consider a 6am showing.

[VegasRobb]

It'll be running 24 hours a day here in Vegas during opening weekend. Guessing that I'll see it around 4-5am Saturday morning.

[Kareem]

From Time's review:


Beyond dark. It's as black -- and teeming and toxic -- as the mind of the Joker. "Batman Begins," the 2005 film that launched Nolan's series, was a mere five-finger exercise. This is the full symphony.

[Alan Dunkin]

This will little snippet from a Scifi.com (http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=0&id=57492) article was interesting (concerning IMAX):


Nolan opted to use the unwieldy, noisy IMAX cameras to shoot six major action sequences, in part to intensify the cinema-going experience in a way that home theaters can't match.

But Nolan also discovered that the high-definition format was good for smaller shots as well. "What we found as we started getting more and more interested in [it is using] these cameras ... for smaller, quieter moments that weren't necessarily action-based," Nolan said. "And that became interesting photographically as well. So we just worked [the IMAX format] more and more into the movie, and because we knew that for the 35mm release we'd be extracting [a] 35mm [image] from the IMAX [print], we used the cameras as much as we felt like, and then in the [editing] were free to decide, 'Do we use the full IMAX frame for this, or do we keep it in the 35mm [aspect ratio]?'"

...

IMAX came in handy in several scenes, some of which didn't make the final cut, Nolan said. "Like the ... cop funeral, where there are so many ... hundreds and hundreds of police--we shot all those grand shots ... actually ... in IMAX, but they don't appear in IMAX in the finished film, because, ... rhythmically, it didn't feel right," he said. "It was an edit-room decision at the end of the day."

...

Nolan added that the IMAX version of the film may make it onto the eventual Blu-ray high-definition disc version of the movie.

--- Alan

[nabeel]

So there is extra footage!

[Funkman]

As if I needed another reason to watch this movie, apparently there is a full trailer for WATCHMEN being shown before TDK. I mean, can this get any better? I submit that it cannot.

[theborbes]

This is going sound callous, but I think think movie is getting a lot of hype because of Heath ledger's death, and that pisses me off. Would people (outside the geek and otaku community) be as excited for this movie if he hadn't died? hard to say but I think not.

[Funkman]

This is going sound callous, but I think think movie is getting a lot of hype because of Heath ledger's death, and that pisses me off. Would people (outside the geek and otaku community) be as excited for this movie if he hadn't died? hard to say but I think not.

Yeah, its a pretty small movie. Warner Brothers probably hopes people will go see it based on word of mouth and definitely not because of the GIGANTIC POSTERS THAT ARE ALL OVER EVER CITY IN NORTH AMERICA.

[Niclas]

This is going sound callous, but I think think movie is getting a lot of hype because of Heath ledger's death, and that pisses me off. Would people (outside the geek and otaku community) be as excited for this movie if he hadn't died? hard to say but I think not.
I'm pretty sure they would.

The surreal plethora of promos and press gigs they've pulled is sheer insanity.

[Wholly Schmidt]

Who will be joining me in announcing "Bat Manuel!" in all of Nestor Carbonell's scenes?

[extarbags]

Holy zen I did not know he was in it. I'll be announcing it in my head, definitely.

[Funkman]

Who will be joining me in announcing "Bat Manuel!" in all of Nestor Carbonell's scenes?

Wholly, I will join you! Hell, I'm already saying it everytime he appears on Lost.

[Jon Rowe]

hrm... I don't to be a jerk or anything... but how much are reviews going to be effected by Heath Ledger's death.
I mean Entertainment Weekly is comparing Ledgers performance to Marlon Brando..

He was in "A Knight's Tale"

I also really like that on the rottentomatoes page (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_dark_knight/?critic=creamcrop), out of the all of the top critic reviews, only one is negative, and it has 394 ridiculous comments.

Jesus, I take that Ledger comment back... He is compared to Marlon Brando even in the negative new yorker review. Jeeze, he must have pulled out all of the stops for this one.

[Niclas]

Having read about Heath Ledger and his insane efforts of method acting, I've found a great amount of respect for his acting - or at least the labour he undertakes prior to and during it.

[extarbags]

hrm... I don't to be a jerk or anything... but how much are reviews going to be effected by Heath Ledger's death.
I mean Entertainment Weekly is comparing Ledgers performance to Marlon Brando..

He was in "A Knight's Tale"

Yeah, and Marlon Brando was in The Island of Dr. Moreau. Great actors make terrible movies sometimes.

[dermot]

Heath Ledger was great in "A Knight's Tale". Which was actually a lot more enjoyable than it had any right to be.

[theborbes]

Niclas, what about his method acting particularly impressed you? I heard that he spent a couple days or something in a rubber room to get the idea of being in an asylum. Is that any more admirable than Dustin Hoffman staying up all night drinking, so that he could appear on set as a convincing drunk?

It's just that kind of attitude that inspires my callousness above; before his death people thought Ledger was a good actor but they care a LOT more now that he's dead.

[extarbags]

It's just that kind of attitude that inspires my callousness above; before his death people thought Ledger was a good actor but they care a LOT more now that he's dead.

Not really. Maybe stop getting your news while checking out at the supermarket?

[Bwah]

A Knight's Tale was awesome fuck you haters.

[Kareem]

It's just that kind of attitude that inspires my callousness above; before his death people thought Ledger was a good actor but they care a LOT more now that he's dead.

They don't care a lot more now that he's dead, they care a lot more because those who reviewed the film are hailing his acting in The Dark Knight as the performance of a lifetime.

[Machfive]

hrm... I don't to be a jerk or anything... but how much are reviews going to be effected by Heath Ledger's death.
I mean Entertainment Weekly is comparing Ledgers performance to Marlon Brando..

He was in "A Knight's Tale"

He was being lauded around the time he did Brokeback, too. I think it was after that people started to realize the guy was a serious actor, and it made his being cast in Dark Knight all that more of an interesting and awesome choice.

[Jon Rowe]

I guess I will have to see the movie to know fully.

[Kaigen]

I'm taking a few days off. I told my boss one reason was so I could catch a midnight show of TDK on June 17 (technically 18th) without worrying about work the next day. She said that sounded, "horrible." Such is the generation gap, even if I am 43. :)


I work at a library, which means I work with a lot of middle-aged women. But I'm kind of the "movie guy" around work, so a lot of my co-workers turn to me to ask about what's out and what's good. I got a few of them to watch Batman Begins despite their aversion to comic book films and got very positive reactions from all of them, including my former boss who had a very strong aversion to action movies in general. I've generally found that Batman Begins is the comic book film for people who don't normally like comic book films (and those who do too), but it can be a hard sell to get them to actually sit down and watch it.

[Dirt]

The ads are making me a bit uneasy. It seems they're pimping Heath Ledger pretty hard.

[Alan Dunkin]

Small snippet about the IMAX experience on AICN:


The IMAX experience was amazing. The film played in it’s correct aspect ratio (2.35:1) except whenever the specifically shot IMAX sequences played, which opened the world up, giving me a 70 foot tall window into another universe. Wally Pfister’s cinematography was always sharp and in IMAX really did make me feel like I was there, which is the highest compliment I could pay to him.

It actually seems like the movie is more about Two-Face in the mostly non-spoiler reviews I drew this quote above from, so... I'm not worried. All indications are this is gonna be awesome so at this point I don't really care.

--- Alan

[Niclas]

The ads are making me a bit uneasy. It seems they're pimping Heath Ledger pretty hard.
The way I see it is that they are trying to desensitize the audience to the fact that the character seen is played by an actor dead - to boot recently, and just after the film was shot, thus making it his last film. It would possibly be much more awkward seeing Ledger in the movie with completely PR "silence" after his death.


It actually seems like the movie is more about Two-Face in the mostly non-spoiler reviews I drew this quote above from, so... I'm not worried. All indications are this is gonna be awesome so at this point I don't really care.

--- Alan
Well they've already said that a lot of the movie will be based on The Long Halloween and Dark Victory - or was that the third installment?

[John Reynolds]

They don't care a lot more now that he's dead, they care a lot more because those who reviewed the film are hailing his acting in The Dark Knight as the performance of a lifetime.

What he did in Brokeback was already a historic performance (IMO), so if he knocks his take on the Joker out of the cinematic ballpark that really suggests that a truly gifted actor died way, way too young.

[Gendal]

out of the all of the top critic reviews, only one is negative, and it has 394 ridiculous comments.


the combat is photographed close up, in semidarkness, and cut at the speed of a fifteen-second commercial. Instead of enjoying the formalized beauty of a fighting discipline, we see a lot of flailing movement and bodies hitting the floor like grain sacks
I hate that crap. Stop cheating and hire a good fight choreographer, you are not fooling anybody. So that's a big negative in my book, though I still can't wait to see it in IMAX.

[Kaigen]

The way I see it is that they are trying to desensitize the audience to the fact that the character seen is played by an actor dead - to boot recently, and just after the film was shot, thus making it his last film.


Actually, The Imaginarium of Dr. Parnassus will be his last film.

[Andrew Mayer]

I hate that crap. Stop cheating and hire a good fight choreographer, you are not fooling anybody. So that's a big negative in my book, though I still can't wait to see it in IMAX.

My theory is that it keeps the ratings board off their backs.


Actually, The Imaginarium of Dr. Parnassus will be his last film.

Maybe.

[Kaigen]

What do you mean "maybe?" I thought it was pretty much a done deal now that they were taking his performance, and then using other actors when his character passes into the other dimensions?

[Andrew Mayer]

What do you mean "maybe?" I thought it was pretty much a done deal now that they were taking his performance, and then using other actors when his character passes into the other dimensions?

They've been talking about it, but as far as I've heard nothing is confirmed.

[Kaigen]

They've been talking about it, but as far as I've heard nothing is confirmed.

Wrong! Bam! (http://www.darkhorizons.com/news08/080311b.php)

[Niclas]

Actually, The Imaginarium of Dr. Parnassus will be his last film.
I see. But if I could forget, I'm sure a lot of the target audience can - and have - as well.

Although that was not what your point was headed at.

[Andrew Mayer]

Wrong! Bam! (http://www.darkhorizons.com/news08/080311b.php)

You could have said something earlier...

[Kaigen]

I wasn't just trying to position myself for a smug comment. Based on your post I thought I might have been mistaken. I remembered reading that it was confirmed but I wasn't sure that was right, so I dug around for that article to confirm.

But you don't expect me to pass up an opportunity for smugness when it presents itself, do you? That would just be silly.

[Adam Sensoy]

I think Ledger is a fantastic actor and have thought so since I saw the remarkably stupid yet fun 10 Things I Hate About You. I also loved A Knight's Tale, even own it on DVD. I think the man's work stands on its own, crazy PR campaign for TDK or not.

[Machfive]

Well, my little group has gotten our tickets to the 8:30PM Saturday IMAX showing.

WOOT.

[Desslock]

Imax tickets booked for 7:30 Thursday! This is the only movie I've been looking forward to all summer, and Nolan hasn't disappointed yet. So nice to have an actual A-level director in charge of one of these series.

Ledger was awesome in Brokeback Mountain - he's the worst loss for his generation since River Phoenix.

[Hanacker]

What do you mean "maybe?"

Ledger is going to have a Tupac-like catalog of unknown stuff being released posthumously. And lots of remixes of his movies.

[nabeel]

So is this going to be the spoiler thread? I won't be able to see the movie til something like the 24th, so I'll steer clear til then if so.

[Kurri]

While I wouldn't call it the epic masterpiece some report it to be, I found it to be a damn good movie. Ledger was brilliant and it's worth the price of admission just to watch him do his thing.

[jeansberg]

Australian, are you? :)

[Mordrak]

Wrong! Bam! (http://www.darkhorizons.com/news08/080311b.php)

That's an interesting work around.

[Kurri]

Australian, are you? :)

Indeed hehe, got up early and caught the first session at 10am. I'd read that they were going to have extra security arrangements at most cinemas and that Warner Bros had sent them all infrared scopes to check for people taping the movie. Sure enough, the manager came in before the start with a scope in his hand and explained to everyone that they would be doing random checks and confiscating mobile phones even if someone pulled one it during the movie.

[SergioBAM]

...explained to everyone that they would be doing random checks and confiscating mobile phones even if someone pulled one it during the movie.

Yeah, I got that too.

I thought the movie was quite good. While I would recommend it to friends, I probably will not see it again until the DVD version comes out. Why? Because you can take in the whole movie in one sitting.

The story was fairly basic (come on, it's batman) but it had enough twists to keep you interested. Kudos to the storyboard guys, editor and director and everyone else involved. The pacing is spot on (did not feel like a ~150 min movie), sets felt great and the hospital scene was really well done (Michael Bay, that's how you blow shit up).

Ledger made the Joker every bit his own. In fact, the performances from all actors was solid.

The only thing I don't like about the new reboot of batman is the voice of batman. Patrick Bateman puts on a really husky voice which doesn't sit well with me.

Over-all, two solid thumbs up.

[jeansberg]

Damn that Bateman!

[Bahimiron]

While rewatching Batman Begins this past weekend I noticed that.

Bale needs to work on making his Bat-voice more menacing and less Harvey Fierstein.

[Enduro_Man]

*99% Spoiler-free!

Excellent, excellent movie. My expectations were super high, but they were exceeded nonetheless. I think I need a day or so to digest it, and decide whether or not it just toppled Batman Begins as my all-time favorite superhero movie. TDK is darker, more realistic, and its pacing is so relentless that it can wear you out. BB, by contrast, gave its audience many more opportunities to catch its breath. There are great performances from the entire cast, even in the briefest and most incidental roles. Every Batman/Alfred scene is golden, and Heath Ledger's Joker is indeed all that it's cracked up to be. (And Hans Zimmer's Joker theme is inspired.)

I would disagree with calling the story basic, since that implies a lack of depth. But if the basics boil down to good and evil, then TDK -via The Joker- makes a harsh examination of both concepts, what separates them, and what blurs that line. I'll leave the deeper analyses to more philosophically-minded QT3ers. If any of you are thinking, "Ho-hum, yet another Batman story that takes Bruce to the edge and makes him question his core beliefs," all I can say is that the ground may be well-trodden by past writers, but execution is everything.

I'll be seeing it again in IMAX over the weekend, and I can't wait. See you in the inevitable spoiler thread.

Final note about the fights: While you won't confuse TDK with The Bourne Ultimatum, the hand-to-hand combat is much less frenetic and more comprehensible than it was in BB. Not sure what the New Yorker reviewer was thinking.

[Siren]

I've been awake sinnce 3:30am, but I'm still going to a midnight showing! I will have been up for nearly 24 hours by the time that I make it home. And I'll be loving every second of it!

[Dirt]

A story can be basic as long as the characters make up for it. Many, many hard-boiled fiction have relatively basic storylines, however, the character and his/her supporting cast make up for it if they're well written and believable.

[Wholly Schmidt]

That was an awesome magic trick.

[nabeel]

The Riddler might be the next Batman movie villain? (http://www.movieweb.com/news/18/29618.php)


When asked if he thought they should recast Ledger for the third film, or just not include the character, Gary thought it was a good idea, "I don't see why not. I mean, they did it with Katie Holmes' character. I understand that this is a different circumstance, but I think another actor could do the job. I think Heath would want another actor to do the job."

Oldman then took a moment to think about it some more, "Maybe we don't need the Joker. Because we'll have The Riddler." Yes, Oldman alluded to the fact that The Riddler may in fact be the next on-screen Batman villain.To be honest the Riddler was definitely one of my choices when considering what villains Nolan should tackle next. From what I hear about The Dark Knight, Batman does a bit of detective work which is good to hear, and a character like the Riddler would be a great way to bring out that side of Batman. I think Nolan could make a dark, twisted version of the Riddler who pits Batman against time to solve riddles in order to save lives.

[KMartin]

The Riddler might be the next Batman movie villain? (http://www.movieweb.com/news/18/29618.php)

To be honest the Riddler was definitely one of my choices when considering what villains Nolan should tackle next. From what I hear about The Dark Knight, Batman does a bit of detective work which is good to hear, and a character like the Riddler would be a great way to bring out that side of Batman. I think Nolan could make a dark, twisted version of the Riddler who pits Batman against time to solve riddles in order to save lives.

Would Jim Carey fit the profile?

[Hanacker]

Has the Riddler ever not been cheesy?

[Equis]

I'm curious to see how Nolan would do the Penguin and especially Catwoman. I'll admit the Riddler not being the top of Batman's rogue gallery I would like to see next.

[Alex Dolce]

Just got back, so spoilers and all that....



I think the Riddler is the natural choice for the third movie's big bad. Only, it has to be a totally different take on the character. I'm imagining something much more in line with a methodical, narcissistic serial killer along the lines of Jack the Ripper or The Zodiac. Someone who's so convinced of their own brilliance and superiority that he sends insanely complex, but solvable riddles, to the police before each murder. And the murders have to be either exceptionally brutal or mass-killings....or both. The way it would fit well with the setup at the end of The Dark Knight is pretty simple. Everyone thinks Batman is the killer, so the whole city is hunting him and hating him, and he has to find the Riddler and stop him. He does, he clears his name, and rides off into the Bat-Sunset. It would work...well, except for that sunset bit, I guess.

If they wanted to put an extra twist on the character, they could always make this Riddler a woman. Female serial killers are rare, and the right actress could quite likely knock the performance out of the park.

[Mordrak]

If they wanted to put an extra twist on the character, they could always make this Riddler a woman. Female serial killers are rare, and the right actress could quite likely knock the performance out of the park.

And look great in tights.

[Jon Rowe]

Would Jim Carey fit the profile?

He is the only one to play the riddler in my book.

[Wholly Schmidt]

He is the only one to play the riddler in my book.Would anyone have pointed to Heath Ledger as a suggestion for the Joker before it was first rumored and then announced? I think it's safe to say there are other reasonable candidates.

[DragonPup]

That was an awesome movie. It is Oscar worthy, and not for effects, I mean the 'real' oscars. Actors, Best Pic,etc.

[madkevin]

He is the only one to play the riddler in my book.

Your book sucks.

[Alex Dolce]

I don't think the Riddler will wear any sort of I'm A Bad Guy costume, and it wouldn't work to depict him as the Riddler from any prior incarnation. I'm seeing a brilliant, narcissistic serial killer and mass murder who is suave, manipulative, and charming...until he starts killing you, of course. Then he's twisted, brutal, and sadistic.

[Equis]

This is a masterpiece. Not in the sense of it being a comicbook masterpiece, but an entire movie masterpiece in its own right.

A few bits were choppy as I understand that Nolan had to cut down his original running time to fit something more palatable for mainstream audience. Thankfully, those parts come early and are completely forgiven by the time the movie starts kicking you in the balls.

I'd really like to discuss, but not spoil it for anyone inadvertently clicking this thread, so here's the general spoiler discussion thread (http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?p=1409983#post1409983)

[MRUS]

Saw it today. I thought it was great.

[z0diac]

Gotta love Rex Reed. The former(?) kleptomaniac and long-time film critic, seems to have a problem with this film's continuity with the previous Batman movies (http://www.observer.com/2008/arts-culture/bat-future). Yes, that's right, the BURTON ones.



Writer-director Nolan’s Batman Begins, with its surreal and mystical mumbo jumbo about playboy Bruce Wayne’s beginnings, remains the worst Batman movie I’ve ever seen, although the comic-book addicts disagree. The Dark Knight takes up where it left off, but if it’s a follow-up that introduces a comprehensive sociopath called the Joker, then how do you explain the fact that the Joker made his debut years ago as Jack Nicholson? It’s just one of the things that makes no sense, but hey-ho, since when did Batman and logic morph?

Is Jackie Harvey from The Onion ghost-writing for Reed now?

[Jason Cross]

Has the Riddler ever not been cheesy?

I don't think that's relevant, really. It's been a disaster in the past, but that doesn't mean that the archetype for the villain doesn't fit into this Batman universe.

The main focus of a good Riddler for the Nolan series would be someone for whom Batman's ability to "solve the crime" it tested. Make the Riddler someone who hides in plain sight. The kind of phychotic killer who seems to commit a string of simple crimes (robberies, arson, whatever) but that actually tie together into a bigger plan. He's disgusted with the intellectual and cultural bankruptcy of Gotham, and the world, and wants to create what in his mind is a brilliant masterpiece that will be remembered forever. And he's willing to break whatever eggs he has to along the way.

I haven't seen Dark Knight yet (tonight at 9pm!) but from what I understand, the thing that makes Joker great here is not just that he has a behavior, it's that he has a psyche that explains it. You'd have to do the same for the Riddler. That psyche could be a lot of things, but I think a narcissist, elitist intellectual who sees normal moral values as beneath him, and unnecessary to create true greatness, is a good start.

I actually think Jim Carey could do a good job with it, preciously because you can see in some of his better movies that he's capable of delivering the polar opposite of his previous ridiculous Riddler.

[Desslock]

I actually think Jim Carey could do a good job with it, preciously because you can see in some of his better movies that he's capable of delivering the polar opposite of his previous ridiculous Riddler.

I agree, and think it would be inspired casting to let Jim Carey play the role again but in a manner almost completely divorced from his original interpretation.

[Ranulf]

Its taken me a couple of years to warm up to Nolan's Batman. Never saw BatmanBegins in theaters but I'm glad I went to see Dark Knight. Just a damn awesome movie. Oh and going at 930 in the morning is nice. 25 people in the theater.

[Andrew Mayer]

Gotta love Rex Reed. The former(?) kleptomaniac and long-time film critic, seems to have a problem with this film's continuity with the previous Batman movies (http://www.observer.com/2008/arts-culture/bat-future). Yes, that's right, the BURTON ones.


I still remember the opening of his television review for Sid & Nancy:


This movie is about two things that I hate; drugs and punks.

[Wholly Schmidt]

I'm digging the soundtrack. I don't really remember much about the soundtrack for Batman Begins, so feeling the need to rush out and buy this first thing this morning was unexpected.

[XPav]

Saw it, awesome.

Makes me want to move out of Gotham, and I don't even live there.

Also, if bridges were shut down and things were going to blow up, I'd swim the river. Yup. THE RIVER. UGH.

[Tim James]

Three comments:

1. I love that actor with the shotgun in the first scene, William Fichtner. He was great in Heat, Prison Break, Black Hawk Down.

2. The single-tone sound effect they used to build up the suspense was superb. Hats off to that one.

3. Heath's girly arms kinda took away the effect of the Joker in the later scenes. Still a shame about the guy though.

[Wholly Schmidt]

3. Heath's girly arms kinda took away the effect of the Joker in the later scenes. Still a shame about the guy though.

Girly arms? What are you talking about?

[Tom Chick]

I don't recall the Joker being portrayed as a buff bruiser, though. He fights dirty, using clubs and dogs and knives. And he gets his ass kicked plenty. I do agree, however, that his manliness factor took a hit when he put on the nurse's uniform.

-Tom

[Tim James]

Girly arms? What are you talking about?In the later scenes when he has his sleeves rolled up, I just thought his hands and arms looked too smooth and womanly. They could've put a little dirt or blood on them or something. Or maybe he just seemed like a regular guy, an average young man when the rest of the movie he was crazy and rough and dirty and scary. Just ruined the effect for me a bit, but if it didn't bother you then don't let me change that!

[Tom Chick]

Oh, and that tone was amazingly effective. Early on, the music was almost more like noise, alternating between a sort of helicopter blade throb, or that tone of a bow drawn over an untuned violin for the Joker's theme.

At one point during the movie, I had to, uh, see a man about a horse, which I really hate during movies (I missed whatever led up to Batman doing bullet ballistics detective work). As I was dashing back from the little boys' room into the theater, I could hear that someone was running some sort of machinery you could hear in the lobby. It sounded like an industrial floor waxer running in one of the other theaters, and I sort of mentally clicked that I'd been able to hear it during the movie, inside the theater. I mean, it was a 3am showing, so maybe they had overnight cleaning to do, but this was still a paid screening! Sheesh. I made a mental note to complain to one of the staff after the movie.

But then I got back into the theater and realized it was the Joker theme that I'd been sort of subconsciously hearing without quite appreciating it. Awesome.

-Tom

[Tom Chick]

In the later scenes when he has his sleeves rolled up, I just thought his hands and arms looked too smooth and womanly.

Ah, actually, good point. I remember that, too. We do see him cleaning his hands after visiting Two-Face for the first time, so maybe he's just neat and fastidious when it comes to personal hygiene.

-Tom

[awdougherty]

Haven't seen it yet, but what about Tim Robbins for the riddler?

[Tim James]

At one point during the movie, I had to, uh, see a man about a horse, which I really hate during movies (I missed whatever led up to Batman doing bullet ballistics detective work).What a coincidence, I did at the same point. What was going on there anyway?

Would've liked to see more of the single-shot miniguns, heh.

[Dirt]

The Joker has been able to hold his own against the Batman in the comics, having greater strength than the average person due to his insanity and with no fear of getting hurt. Of course, it depends on who's writing him.

[Wholly Schmidt]

Oh, and that tone was amazingly effective. Early on, the music was almost more like noise, alternating between a sort of helicopter blade throb, or that tone of a bow drawn over an untuned violin for the Joker's theme.

At one point during the movie, I had to, uh, see a man about a horse, which I really hate during movies (I missed whatever led up to Batman doing bullet ballistics detective work). As I was dashing back from the little boys' room into the theater, I could hear that someone was running some sort of machinery you could hear in the lobby. It sounded like an industrial floor waxer running in one of the other theaters, and I sort of mentally clicked that I'd been able to hear it during the movie, inside the theater. I mean, it was a 3am showing, so maybe they had overnight cleaning to do, but this was still a paid screening! Sheesh. I made a mental note to complain to one of the staff after the movie.

But then I got back into the theater and realized it was the Joker theme that I'd been sort of subconsciously hearing without quite appreciating it. Awesome.

-Tom
Is it ridiculous to say the music reminded me a bit of There Will Be Blood? Did anyone else think that?

[Tom Chick]

Ooh, I wish I'd thought of that. Well done, Wholly.

-Tom

[bloo]

Just got back. The music, especially the bass, in the last 5 minutes made the dialog impossible to understand. "Hero.." something "...need..." something.

Was is just the crap theater I was in?

[Tom Chick]

Heh, that was the case in my theatre, too, bloo. I couldn't tell what Gordon was telling his kid. In fact, I had no idea what the last line was until the title card came up. "Oh, dark knight. I see."

By the way, the movie had earned it, but that little bit of dialogue for Gary Oldman was kind of clunky. If I hadn't been so into the movie, I could have imagined Gordon's kid looking up at him and wondering, 'What the heck is he going on about...?' I presume that was directly from one of the comic books?

-Tom

[Justin Fletcher]

Superb. See you in the spoiler thread.

[Enduro_Man]

Oh, and that tone was amazingly effective. Early on, the music was almost more like noise, alternating between a sort of helicopter blade throb, or that tone of a bow drawn over an untuned violin for the Joker's theme.
I loved the theme for two reasons. First, it's an inverse of Zimmer's two-note Batman theme. Whereas Batman's single note turns into a reassuring, orchestratic rumble, The Joker's scratchy string is joined by others to make a cacophony. Second, I like how the tone emerges naturally from background noise, like a bit of tinnitus.

[tiohn]

Maggie Gyllenhaal: I would so hit that.

[Kaigen]

I have nothing to say in the spoiler thread that someone hasn't already so I'll just offer this: FUCK YEAH!

[Hanacker]

Gotta love Rex Reed. The former(?) kleptomaniac and long-time film critic, seems to have a problem with this film's continuity with the previous Batman movies (http://www.observer.com/2008/arts-culture/bat-future). Yes, that's right, the BURTON ones.

Is Jackie Harvey from The Onion ghost-writing for Reed now?

The girl I saw the movie with refused to believe that it wasn't a prequel and couldn't understand how the continuity into the 80s and 90s Batman movies would work out with some of the events in the movie. Despite me trying to explain it to her repeatedly...

And after seeing the movie, I can't see your guys' vision of the Riddler being different enough from how they did the Joker. But maybe it could work.

[bloo]

By the way, the movie had earned it, but that little bit of dialogue for Gary Oldman was kind of clunky. If I hadn't been so into the movie, I could have imagined Gordon's kid looking up at him and wondering, 'What the heck is he going on about...?' I presume that was directly from one of the comic books?

I don't think so. In the comics, Barbara Gordon is Commissioner Jim Gordon's daughter, still has the red hair though, and she becomes Batgirl (technically the 2nd Batgirl), and later Oracle after the Joker shoots her in the spine and makes her a paraplegic.

I thought they might be setting up Gordon's son to become Robin one day. But given the arc the first two Nolan Bat movies have taken, I don't see any Robin happening. Bale's signed for three, right? I'm guessing they'll cap it off with no Robin and probably no other DC universe tie-ins.

[Justin Fletcher]

Whether Gordon is Barbara's father, adoptive father, or uncle seems to change with the weather. As of Miller's Year One, Gordon's wife, Barbara, has a son shortly after their move from Chicago to Gotham.

This is the setup in TDK, only they've added an unnamed daughter into the mix as well. This could be a reference to the continuity where Barbara Gordon (the younger) is Gordon's niece, whom he adopts after her parents are killed, and whom he retains custody of once he and his wife divorce (she keeps the son).

[Tim James]

It struck me that Bale didn't really have any acting moments in this movie. Not that it's a big deal -- he basically sat back and let the kickass supporting cast do a great job. They didn't play up the whole angle about how it was his fault a bunch of people died. Batman Begins was much more about his character; here, it was about everyone else.

[BennyProfane]

Just back. All I'm going to add is that, even with high expectations, this movie isn't really what I expected. It was harsher, bleaker, and just damned dark. Almost painful to watch at times. Wow!

[Kael]

Am I the only one who thinks that Batman could have been completly cut out of this movie and it would have remained intact. It may have been a tighter movie if Commisioner Gordon was the main character against the insanity of the Joker and the fall of Dent.

The costumed superhero was more of a set piece in the story then the heart of the story. Maybe it was because Ledger stole the spotlight (Im not a fan of Bale at all) but although I loved the movie it felt like a psycological drama set in the world of Batman.

[John Reynolds]

Just got back from an IMAX. Loved it, probably the best comic book movie of all time and definitely my favorite movie so far this year. A few minor issues with the movie, such as Bale overdoing the costumed voice, and would've liked more closure with the Joker (a quick shot of him imprisoned at Arkham or something), and would've liked a better action sequence at the end, but aside from that I loved it.

[Jazar]

At first few scenes of the Joker I wasn't sure I was going to love Ledger/Nolan's vision of the Joker, but once I heard the maniacal laughter I was sold.

[TriggerHappy]

Am I the only one who thinks that Batman could have been completly cut out of this movie and it would have remained intact.

The Joker doesn't work without Batman around. I don't think it would have worked at all, myself.

Just got back myself and it was so much more than I expected, best comic hero movie ever, by far.

[Kelly Wand]

There were tons of little kids in the audience I saw this with, big families with five- and seven-year-olds -- reliably lifelong noisemakers -- and every one of them was silent throughout from the first frame to the last, except for occasional cries of horror and tension and awe. And I was one with them.

Brilliant.

[Rywill]

Excellent, excellent movie. It's a better superhero movie than X-Men or The Incredibles, which makes it the best superhero movie I've seen. What a great script, and what a great job by Heath Ledger and Gary Oldman. I could take or leave Bale's performance, and the same with Eckhart's. Gyllenhall isn't given much to do, which is a shame. Caine and Freeman are both very good in their parts. But the thing that really makes this film is the terrific script: great story with really good, grown-up themes, and an awesome ending. The dialog is also a lot of fun, especially the Joker's. The plot is comic-booky in the sense that many of the Joker's schemes couldn't possibly have been pulled off in "real life," but they serve the theme of the story so well that I didn't care. Big thumbs-up.

[armand v]

I really liked the music. When I saw Hans Zimmer was the composer I was disappointed that the original Batman theme by John Williams was gone but it was worth it! They coulda thrown it in there a bit, that mighta been cool

[philosophist]

There were tons of little kids in the audience I saw this with, big families with five- and seven-year-olds -- reliably lifelong noisemakers -- and every one of them was silent throughout from the first frame to the last, except for occasional cries of horror and tension and awe. And I was one with them.

Brilliant.

I just don't get parents these days. It's difficult raising children under 10 in any kind of responsible way. I don't think most parents give a shit about a movie's or videogame's rating. And how does this movie only get a PG-13 rating? Is that legit?

It seems like most of the kids my 7-yr knows are playing call of duty 4 or assassin's creed or some other non-GTAIV, M-rated video game.

Maybe it's just me? Maybe I'm the parent who needs to change?

[MSUSteve]

Am I the only one who thinks that Batman could have been completly cut out of this movie and it would have remained intact. It may have been a tighter movie if Commisioner Gordon was the main character against the insanity of the Joker and the fall of Dent.

The costumed superhero was more of a set piece in the story then the heart of the story. Maybe it was because Ledger stole the spotlight (Im not a fan of Bale at all) but although I loved the movie it felt like a psycological drama set in the world of Batman.
I think you've essentially articulated what I've been trying to say to friends when is say this movie isn't a "superhero movie" at all. It's a movie with a story to be told; it just happened to involve Batman. It doesn't have the pacing or feel of a superhero movie in any way at all. While I think Batman was integral, I think Nolan brought the city and its citizens to the forefront, setting Batman apart as one of the agents trying to bring about a greater change. The film is remarkable. Commissioner Gordon, Harvey Dent, and others weren't simply supporting character to Batman. They all had their parts to play and were extremely important to the plot. No one in the movie was an afterthought.

[Kael]

In thinking about the movie Im also really impressed that with all the morale situations in the movie, it doesn't spend very long talking about them. We aren't treated with either a clarifying description of the dilema, or a set conclusion to draw from it.

Instead the movie presents a clash of ideology's, which would be the core of other movies, as single scenes. Lets them work out as the characters struggle through them and races on to the next dilema while we are left trying to figure out what the last one meant.

Because of this the movie feels a little chaotic and out of control (like a good rollercoaster) and the audience is able to emphasize with the characters as they want. I'll avoid spoilers, but all the major and minor characters make decisions that we can agree or disagree with. But the movie itself doesn't take a side. At some point you may even find yourself emphasizing with the Joker.

[Wholly Schmidt]

I really liked the music. When I saw Hans Zimmer was the composer I was disappointed that the original Batman theme by John Williams was gone but it was worth it! They coulda thrown it in there a bit, that mighta been cool

Danny Elfman did the Batman theme you're thinking of.

[Rob_Merritt]

Just got back and to my surprised, I really liked it. I didn't care for Batman Begins and I went in expecting something similar. Begins had excellent villians but weak story, terrible action scenes, and Batman was non existant. Batman is suppose to be a ghost in the world, not to the movie people are watching.
The Dark Knight addressed every issue and pretty much every issue of every superhero movies ever.

[Mookee]

Does it make the list Rob? Was it better than Batman Forever? Was it better than Daredevil?! :)

[Rob_Merritt]

Does it make the list Rob? Was it better than Batman Forever? Was it better than Daredevil?! :)

Yes to both.

[Dirt]

A not overly complex plot. But it does have a relatively complex morality. Although, given Hollywood plots, this was pretty thick.

[rhinohelix]

Note: this was my initial reaction, which I reserve the right to change my opinion with time and to revise and extend my remarks.

I will be the lone voice in the wilderness: I don't think it was the best superhero movie of all time. In fact, given one viewing, I like it less than Begins and believe suffers from sequel-itis to a certain degree. It's got more! action, more! plot, and more! less-than-heroic but still heroic endings. It has all of the strengths and weakness of the first movie, with each amped up to the next level. There were a couple of moments which I felt were uncalled ironic fourth-wall winks. The third act was completely predictable with far too many speechifying soliloquies. The movie was probably half an hour too long, although I didn't get that feeling until the last couple of subplots played out.

I thought it tried to pack too much story into one movie. Thematically it was unnecessarily murky and weak at times. While I understand what they were going for and why they included it in this movie, I thought it was just too much for one movie and could have easily split portions off to make the third. It's like the counter-example of the final "Matrix" duo.

I was a big fan of Maggie G's going in but thought she was the weakest part of the movie (given it's strong nature, though, that is less of a criticism than it sounds). She is a better actress than Katie Holmes but I don't think that she was used in such a way that made use of her talents, while her drawbacks really took me out of moments. I think don't think she has aged particularly well (neither have I) and there were several scenes where she and Eckhart acted well together but I just didn't get it. That might be a product of my previous fandom of hers, however; perhaps the discordant nature of my opinion about the movie as a whole tempers my written review as well.

I don't mean to be too harsh. I liked tons about this film. There were several scenes early on that almost made me say "Crackdown!" in the cinema out loud. I was solidly in the "great, A movie" camp until the final third of the movie, where I thought that it lost almost a letter grade due to the choices they made. I don't feel the need to heap praise on it, though, since everyone else is doing it. This is no "Godfather". It may well be an "Empire Strikes Back"; much like that movie it takes you places you don't expect to go and overall serves the nature of the story. I would still give it an 8.5 on a real 1-10 scale. Maybe with multiple viewings some of the choices will grow on me, and maybe it will become a 9.

So goes my pebble against the raging tide.

[Tom Chick]

I think don't think [Maggie Gyllenhaal] has aged particularly well

I noticed this, too. I'm not sure if it was a make-up issue, or aging, like you say. But whatever the case, I thought the movie was stronger for it. Instead of looking like a celebrity, Gyllenhaal came across as a Real Person. There was clearly the sense that Harvey Dent and Bruce Wayne loved her not because she was s00per hawt, but because of a powerful personal connection. I wish more movies would cast actresses based on their charisma and talent, both of which Gyllenhaal showed in spades despite looking a little haggard at times, instead of conventional plastic good looks.

-Tom

[armand v]

Danny Elfman did the Batman theme you're thinking of.Ooooohhhhhhh! Thanks. I dunno why I got confused. John Williams did the Superman theme I think and maybe that's how.

[Wholly Schmidt]

Statistically, John Williams was a good bet.

[rhinohelix]

I noticed this, too. I'm not sure if it was a make-up issue, or aging, like you say. But whatever the case, I thought the movie was stronger for it. Instead of looking like a celebrity, Gyllenhaal came across as a Real Person. There was clearly the sense that Harvey Dent and Bruce Wayne loved her not because she was s00per hawt, but because of a powerful personal connection. I wish more movies would cast actresses based on their charisma and talent, both of which Gyllenhaal showed in spades despite looking a little haggard at times, instead of conventional plastic good looks.

-Tom
I wholeheartedly applaud and agree with that sentiment in general. I just didn't find it to be the case here. Perhaps my personal reaction has more to do with the way I remember her, which has been quite some time ago, versus the way she appears in the movie. It just didn't work for me personally, which I know puts me in the overwhelming minority.

[Mookee]

What soliloquies?

[rhinohelix]

What soliloquies?

"Soliloquies" is hyperbole but there were a fair number of dialogues in the final act that I would describe as characters having Something To Say that seemed very overt to me.

[MyNameIsWill]

Fantastic movie

[Bill Dungsroman]

Note: this was my initial reaction, which I reserve the right to change my opinion with time and to revise and extend my remarks.

I will be the lone voice in the wilderness: I don't think it was the best superhero movie of all time. In fact, given one viewing, I like it less than Begins and believe suffers from sequel-itis to a certain degree. It's got more! action, more! plot, and more! less-than-heroic but still heroic endings. It has all of the strengths and weakness of the first movie, with each amped up to the next level. There were a couple of moments which I felt were uncalled ironic fourth-wall winks. The third act was completely predictable with far too many speechifying soliloquies. The movie was probably half an hour too long, although I didn't get that feeling until the last couple of subplots played out.

I thought it tried to pack too much story into one movie. Thematically it was unnecessarily murky and weak at times. While I understand what they were going for and why they included it in this movie, I thought it was just too much for one movie and could have easily split portions off to make the third. It's like the counter-example of the final "Matrix" duo.

I was a big fan of Maggie G's going in but thought she was the weakest part of the movie (given it's strong nature, though, that is less of a criticism than it sounds). She is a better actress than Katie Holmes but I don't think that she was used in such a way that made use of her talents, while her drawbacks really took me out of moments. I think don't think she has aged particularly well (neither have I) and there were several scenes where she and Eckhart acted well together but I just didn't get it. That might be a product of my previous fandom of hers, however; perhaps the discordant nature of my opinion about the movie as a whole tempers my written review as well.

I don't mean to be too harsh. I liked tons about this film. There were several scenes early on that almost made me say "Crackdown!" in the cinema out loud. I was solidly in the "great, A movie" camp until the final third of the movie, where I thought that it lost almost a letter grade due to the choices they made. I don't feel the need to heap praise on it, though, since everyone else is doing it. This is no "Godfather". It may well be an "Empire Strikes Back"; much like that movie it takes you places you don't expect to go and overall serves the nature of the story. I would still give it an 8.5 on a real 1-10 scale. Maybe with multiple viewings some of the choices will grow on me, and maybe it will become a 9.

So goes my pebble against the raging tide.

My rebuttal:


The motherfuckin' Joker, son.

[rhinohelix]

My rebuttal:


The motherfuckin' Joker, son.

Touche. While I think that Hannibal Lector does outdo him pound for pound, certainly it is a performance for the ages, a creation that makes acting a craft. The mystery, the lack of backstory that explains in some psychobabble way why he does all these horrible thing is what makes him truly scary. A fantastic achievement in cinema. No doubt or disagreement there.

[rei]

speaking of plastic, sterile, the disney-channel-reject kid of gordon pissed me off, with his bad acting/line delivery and his bleach blonde looks.

[armand v]

Statistically, John Williams was a good bet.LOL! In life I often play the numbers too

[Bill Dungsroman]

Touche. I will I think that Hannibal Lector does outdo him pound for pound, certainly it is a performance for the ages, a creation that makes acting a craft. The mystery, the lack of backstory that explains in some psychobabble way why he does all these horrible thing is what makes him truly scary. A fantastic achievement in cinema. No doubt or disagreement there.

And honestly, most of your nits were well-picked. It's the whole of the thing that matters to me, however.

[Jakub]

I'm kinda with rhinohelix, even more so in fact.

It's a great movie overall, so I overlook its foibles, but it has many more flaws than I'd have expected. But as BillD so aptly points out... motherfuckin' Joker. Ledger absolutely ran away with the movie. The Joker had a strong part in the script, that's obvious, but the character is a marvelous creation. I'm not a celebrity fan at all, but Ledger's passing means the loss of a really great actor.

[Talisker]

My favorite line in the movie, in the hospital with Harvey:

"Hi."

[Wholly Schmidt]

My favorite line in the movie, in the hospital with Harvey:

"Hi."

Also good is the inaudible "six?"

[John Reynolds]

My favorite line in the movie, in the hospital with Harvey:

"Hi."

Same here. I was wondering after seeing it how many takes they did with that scene before Ledger got that one word out just the way he and/or Nolan wanted.

[Mike Cathcart]

woot. The Dark Knight breaks the opening day record with 66 million batbucks and the opening weekend record with 155 million batbucks.

http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0468569/news#ni0264349

[Wholly Schmidt]

Does opening weekend just count Friday and Saturday?

[King Lupid]

Good movie, a little long. Ledger made a pretty good Joker, but Mark Hamill still is the best screen (tv screen) Joker, IMNSHO

[Talisker]

It did 18.5 million or so in 12:01am Friday showings alone (http://www.the-numbers.com/interactive/newsStory.php?newsID=3561).

[Talisker]

Does opening weekend just count Friday and Saturday?
That total is for Friday through Sunday.

[WarrenM]

Ledger made a pretty good Joker, but Mark Hamill still is the best screen (tv screen) Joker, IMNSHO
FAIL.

[Wholly Schmidt]

That total is for Friday through Sunday.

Then why do we have stories like this (http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/Movies/07/20/dark.knight.ap/index.html) giving the weekend total at 3pm EST on Sunday? Are they just estimating the rest of the Sunday revenue? Do they just go back and revise the figure later but wanted to go ahead and break the story since it had already beaten Spider-Man 3 at that point? None of the wording seemed to indicate "155.3 million so far", the 155.3 million number is being presented as the final opening weekend revenue everywhere I see it mentioned.

[armand v]

Good movie, a little long. Ledger made a pretty good Joker, but Mark Hamill still is the best screen (tv screen) Joker, IMNSHOI was just thinking about his laugh, it was so crazy! When I learned it was Skywalker doing the voice, I laughed everytime I heard the laugh.

[Talisker]

Are they just estimating the rest of the Sunday revenue?
Yep, it's an estimate:

...it delivered the goods this morning with Warner Bros. estimating an opening weekend total of $155.34 million. Since the movie actually scored better on Friday than originally projected, it seems likely that WB is being cautious in their projection, and a good day on Sunday could see the movie come close to $160 million when all is said and done. (full story (http://www.the-numbers.com/interactive/newsStory.php?newsID=3566))

[Wholly Schmidt]

Gracias.

[Rob_Merritt]

Its estimated. The Weekend estimates hit around 11am pst.

[Neopythia]

I went to the 7:00pm showing on Friday and during the moive, and even more so after ending people yelled out "Heath!" Most people also stuck around and gave him a special round of applause when his name appeared on screen. I was curious if this was only a New York thing or if people experienced this elsewhere?

I thought the movie was a tremendous piece of storytelling. I think it also shows filmmakers how to make a superhero movie. While comics may have absurd plots at times, there is a serious heart and tone to most of them. Movies based on them should strive for the same voice.

[Stroker Ace]

There were a few spurts of clapping at my theater but nothing too annoying. I was at a 4:30 pm show on Sunday though, so "those" people were probably already done.

Edit: Ledger blows Nicholson's Joker out of the water. That's a big accomplishment, right?

[Machfive]

Shit, my group didn't stick around through the end of the credits. Was there anything afterward?

[Talisker]

Shit, my group didn't stick around through the end of the credits. Was there anything afterward?
You missed it? Dude.

[WarrenM]

I never stick around for the credits at the theatre. What was it?

[Mike Cathcart]

A blank screen followed by movie trivia and photographs of popcorn and snacks.

[WarrenM]

Apparently it's a note about Ledger. Was that all?

[Wholly Schmidt]

There's nothing after the credits. During the credits there's an "in memory of" message that I forget the exact wording of. It's something like "For our friends..." and it lists Ledger and the other guy that died in production (a stunt worker or something, I can't remember the story). It's a minute or so into the credits, so you might have missed it if you walked out as soon as they started, but it's not hidden away at the end or anything.

[J. Matthew Zoss]

A note about the Riddler, since I've seen a lot of talk about him in this thread. The current comic version of the Riddler is very much a mirror of Batman, but where the Joker is chaos to Batman's order, the Riddler is amorality to Batman's morality.

The current take on the Riddler is that he's every bit as good of a detective as Batman, but solves crime for money rather than altruism. I could see this working in the Nolan Bat-verse. Batman, the law-breaking vigilante, squares off against the Riddler, a sort of bonded bounty hunter accomplishing the same goals for very different reasons. Of course, given how dense TDK was (Awesome, btw), I think this would only be a sub-plot, not the narrative backbone.

And Jim Carey? Pssh. No way. Timothy Olyphant.

[Alex Dolce]

I think The Riddler would need to be someone who could be very suave and charismatic to lure people in, then switch gears to menacing and sadistic and dark, dark, dark. Clive Owen just popped into my head when typing this, but I haven't really given a lot of thought as to who I'd cast.

[Andrew Mayer]

He needs to be more cerebral. Jude Law would be a good choice for the Riddler, I think.

[Stroker Ace]

Kevin Spacey?

[Mike Cathcart]

Enough with the Kevin Spacey already.

[Andrew Mayer]

Enough with the Kevin Spacey already.

Daniel Day Lewis

[Mike O'Malley]

Christian Bale.

[Hanacker]

Christian Bale.

Yeah, something like his American Psycho character might work if you weren't going for too wacky.

[J. Matthew Zoss]

Christian Bale.Winnar.

[Rob_Merritt]

I don't know about you but I kind of don't want them to do another. After this movie, there is no way they can top it.

[Rob_Merritt]

Final total came out. A bit higher at $158.3 million.

[Stroker Ace]

Are these numbers meaningful as anything other than an inflation index? How about tickets sold as a percentage of population? Gross revenues as a percentage of GDP?

[Alex Dolce]

Here's the plot of the third movie:

Batman is hunted and on the run from the cops, the public starts to hate him, etc..
Someone starts sending complex riddles to the cops, boasting of his brilliance and challenging them to solve the riddles in time...he's a serial killer and mass murderer...
At first, everyone suspects Batman is behind the killings, and even Gordon starts to wonder....
Then, a break in the case, they determine that the killer runs in high society, probably has a lot of money, is charming and respected, etc...so, eventually, Gordon sets his sights on Bruce Wayne and starts investigating him...
So you have poor Bruce/Bats being hunted from every direction, his assets get frozen, he's publicly distrusted and/or hated in either identity, etc...
So he has to do actual detective work this time, while hiding and avoiding either capture and arrest from the cops or lynch mobbing from the public, etc...

Also, they go full on with the darkness and don't try for a PG-13. Joy and rapture will follow.

[Dirt]

They already did that movie. It's called The Fugitive.

[Alex Dolce]

Mentioning The Fugitive only brings up memories of Tommy Lee Jones' last foray into the Bat franchise, and makes everyone cry. For shame, Dirt!

[Mike Cathcart]

Daniel Day Lewis
Hell yeah, I was actually thinking about that this morning.

[Wholly Schmidt]

You know what? Let's take it in another 2007 Oscar-winner direction and just have Batman vs. Anton Chigurh.

[Dean]

I thought the current thinking was that Mike Engel (Anthony Michael Hall) was going to become the Riddler in the next movie. Am I mistaken?

I don't remember a Mike Engel from the comics, and my google-fu has forsaken me.

[Tom Chick]

Hell yeah, I was actually thinking about that this morning.

Demonstrating once again that any part would be even more awesome played by Daniel Day Lewis.

-Tom

[Stroker Ace]

That's a good point, AMH had way too much face time as a nameless character in this movie. He's got to be prepping for something.

[Funkman]

I thought the current thinking was that Mike Engel (Anthony Michael Hall) was going to become the Riddler in the next movie. Am I mistaken?

I don't remember a Mike Engel from the comics, and my google-fu has forsaken me.

That was just a bizarre rumor followed by some equally bizarre wishful thinking. Basically, it was rumored that Anthony Michael Hall was going to be in the movie, and then people got all worked up and started speculating about it. Somehow, from that, the rumors turned into him being the Riddler and appearing in the Dark Knight or something. Hall himself sort of laughed at the whole thing because it was never said one way or the other what role he would have in TDK, and its pretty clear that his character Engel isn't going to become the Riddler.

[J. Matthew Zoss]

Demonstrating once again that any part would be even more awesome played by Daniel Day Lewis.

-Tom
Catwoman?

[extarbags]

Catwoman?

Oh god yes.

[Mike O'Malley]

Daniel Day Lewis as the Penguin could be interesting.

[Justin Fletcher]

FAIL.
Hey now. Hamill is great as the Joker and was the definitive portrayal before TDK. Or is, if you prefer a more classic version of the character to Ledger's psycho killer anarchist.

Me? I love them both.

[Enduro_Man]

I saw TDK yesterday for the second time last night (second and a bit, if I count a horrible experience with the local IMAX theater over the weekend). It's definitely worth a second viewing for savoring the performances. I loved hearing Heath Ledger's laugh as he walked into the crime bosses' meeting, and the "LOOK AT ME!" he bellowed at the Batman wannabe. And Maggie Gyllenhaal did an excellent job [DELETED]. I previously mentioned that I would have preferred to see Katie Holmes reprising the role, but I have to wonder how she might have fumble that key scene.

One thing that struck me as the credits rolled was how satisfying the ending was, considering all the downers of the plot and the incompleteness of the story. Maybe it's Gary Oldman's voice summarizing Nolan's concept of Batman, or that wonderful shot of the Batpod emerging from a tunnel and into the light. Whatever it was, I definitely walked out of the theater feeling full.

Some thoughts:
-I agree with the criticism of Christian Bale's Batman voice, which wasn't that great in Batman Begins to begin with. (Recall the corny way he delivered, "It's not who we are underneath...") In the aftermath of the final confrontation with Two-Face, Bale sounded like he was threatening to kick Steve Austin's ass.
-Re: Batman's look. What I really liked in TDK was how dark Batman's eyes appeared, especially when he interrogated the Joker. In every other Batman movie you could always make out the whites of his eyes. In TDK, and in that scene particularly, they were like a couple of black marbles. The "sonar-vision" bright eyes were also a nice touch.

[Equis]

One thing that struck me as the credits rolled was how satisfying the ending was, considering all the downers of the plot and the incompleteness of the story. Maybe it's Gary Oldman's voice summarizing Nolan's concept of Batman, or that wonderful shot of the Batpod emerging from a tunnel and into the light. Whatever it was, I definitely walked out of the theater feeling full.


I'm still wondering how they managed to pull that off.

[nabeel]

Still numba one. (http://www.imdb.com/chart/top) At this stage I thought it'd start drifting down already.

Also, the weekend total is apparently $158.4 mil (http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/industries/industrials/dark-knight-shatters-imax-opening-box-office-records/-1525239655).

[dashingly]

If they wanted to put an extra twist on the character, they could always make this Riddler a woman. Female serial killers are rare, and the right actress could quite likely knock the performance out of the park.Lauren Graham. If not, Emily Watson as Lady Vic.


And after seeing the movie, I can't see your guys' vision of the Riddler being different enough from how they did the Joker. But maybe it could work.Yeah.


And how does this movie only get a PG-13 rating? Is that legit?It's the MPAA, there is no logic, only money.


That's a good point, AMH had way too much face time as a nameless character in this movie. He's got to be prepping for something.Cluemaster? Firefly?

Let's not forget Zsasz was in BB, entirely possible. I remember seeing Wesker as well, but Google tells me no. Warren White was in TDK, no?

Hmm...other rogue's gallery wishes. Rachel Weisz as Nocturna, Jon Hamm as Hush, Daniel-Day Lewis as The Mad Hatter, Jim Carrey as Black Mask, Javier Bardem as Crime Doctor, Adam Sandler as the Penguin, Marlon Wayans as Maxie Zeus, James McEvoy as Cornelius Stirk, Dylan Walsh as Crazy Quilt, Michael Beck as Deacon Blackfire, Sarah Silverman as Magpie or Mime, George Clooney as Reaper, and Daniel Craig as Red Hood.

[TurinTuramba]

Huge Rachel Dawes spoiler after which I immediately stopped reading.

Thanks, I thought this thread was safe for us poor germans who have to wait a month for the movie, but I guess I have to stay out of here now too.

[Enduro_Man]

Deepest apologies, Turin. I was reading several Dark Knight threads simultaneously and got confused about which one I was posting in.

[malkav11]

The Joker doesn't work without Batman around. I don't think it would have worked at all, myself.

Just got back myself and it was so much more than I expected, best comic hero movie ever, by far.

Depends on how you mean. The Joker doesn't work without Batman *existing*. Batman doesn't need to be around much in the actual story, though, as evidenced by the Joker story midway through Gotham Central's run, which was awesome, hardly involved Batman (as per most Gotham Central stories - the series is, after all, about how the cops have to do things in a world where crazy costumed freaks can just barrel right past them and they have to rely a lot more than they'd like on a similarly freaky vigilante.), and in my mind stands out as one of the best Joker stories so far.

But I wouldn't have lowered Batman's time in The Dark Knight, myself.

[Alex Dolce]

Lauren Graham. If not, Emma Watson as Lady Vic.
Lauren Graham would be just as much of a surprise casting choice (well, more actually) than Ledger. If she could pull off the dark, twisted, sociopathic, narcissist while she's butchering people, I'd say she would be an awesome choice. Mary-Louise Parker could probably pull it off, since she does the on-the-verge-of-a-psychotic-breakdown character really well. There's crazy behind those eyes, I tell you.

[Alex Dolce]

And how does this movie only get a PG-13 rating? Is that legit?
Well, I don't think there's a single swear word or a single drop of blood in the whole movie. Heck, even Harvey Dent's bandages are pearly white when stuck to his not-skin. Removing the swearing and the blood gives you a lot of credit to play with in your violence/sexual/mature themes/etc...budget.

[ElGuapo]

If I recall correctly, according to their own rules the MPAA can only rate things that appear on screen, not implied or cut off camera or through camera edits/quick cuts away.

[mike]

Hmm...other rogue's gallery wishes. Rachel Weisz as Nocturna, Jon Hamm as Hush, Daniel-Day Lewis as The Mad Hatter, Jim Carrey as Black Mask, Javier Bardem as Crime Doctor, Adam Sandler as the Penguin, Marlon Wayans as Maxie Zeus, James McEvoy as Cornelius Stirk, Dylan Walsh as Crazy Quilt, Michael Beck as Deacon Blackfire, Sarah Silverman as Magpie or Mime, George Clooney as Reaper, and Daniel Craig as Red Hood.

!!!

(Please don't ever, ever cast any type of "comedian" in your Batfilms, Nolan. Please.)

[extarbags]

!!!

(Please don't ever, ever include the Penguin in your Batfilms, Nolan. Please.)

Fixed.

[mike]

Fixed.

Eh, I could deal with him as a peripheral character, maybe an arms dealer, just another member of the mob, but not much more. I don't want to see him flying away on an umbrella or be any way like he was in the Burton flick.

[Qessinge]

I don't know about you but I kind of don't want them to do another. After this movie, there is no way they can top it.

With the kind of $ they are grossing that is the one certainty in all of this - a sequel!

[mike]

With the kind of $ they are grossing that is the one certainty in all of this - a sequel!

Rest assured, the money this brought in, they will do a sequel, with or without Nolan. But I sort of agree...if this was the last Batman movie ever made, I'd be ok with that. As much as I want more, TDK will be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to top.

[Reldan]

I think John Malkovich would be a great Riddler. I imagine a solid Riddler would be akin to Mr. Ripley.

[Wholly Schmidt]

Eh, I could deal with him as a peripheral character, maybe an arms dealer, just another member of the mob, but not much more. I don't want to see him flying away on an umbrella or be any way like he was in the Burton flick.

Yeah, my friend and I decided the Penguin would be simple enough to adapt, but difficult to make compelling.

[Rasputin]

With no light at the end of the tunnel (no Rachel waiting for him when he's done) and everyone in Gotham save Jim Gordon hating him, I imagine that Bruce will become darker and more brooding.

This is a perfect place to bring in Catwoman, or else (don't hit me) Dick Grayson.

[Justin Fletcher]

Yeah, my friend and I decided the Penguin would be simple enough to adapt, but difficult to make compelling.
They'd need to make him what he's become in the comics: DC's version of the Kingpin.

[Chuck]

Brad Dourif as the Ridler. In fact, while watching Ledger's performance Sunday, I saw a little bit of Dourif in his mannerisms. Maybe he's too cliched as a villian after LOTR, but that guy always delivers.

And yeah, I felt it pushed PG-13 a bit.

Spoiler, maybe.













That pencil trick comes to mind. Even though it was shown off-screen, the brutality of it was shocking.

[Mordrak]

I think Harley Quinn would be a natural extension after the Joker's death. Harley, obsessed with Joker, seeks revenge on Batman. They'd have to kill the Joker in some way in the third film that didn't need Ledger present or using old soundbites.

The old sound clip bit rarely works though. I have no idea who I'd get to play it. I can't think of a young actress with the necessary range. Then again, I would have totally dismissed Ledger as the Joker (but his make up and wide eyed stare do a lot to mask his appearance). I'd suggest Portman, but I haven't seen her in anything really good lately. I'm not really familiar with the young current young actresses. I guess they could always cast an unknown.

No matter who they go with, they really need to get in a female villain of some kind.

[Bill Dungsroman]

Brad Dourif as the Ridler. In fact, while watching Ledger's performance Sunday, I saw a little bit of Dourif in his mannerisms. Maybe he's too cliched as a villian after LOTR, but that guy always delivers.

And yeah, I felt it pushed PG-13 a bit.

Not that Rufus Sewell is an A-list actor or anything, but he has the sort of look I wouldn't mind seeing in the Riddler.


http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/01S77ZA9OW0NQ/340x.jpg















Spoiler, maybe.













That pencil trick comes to mind. Even though it was shown off-screen, the brutality of it was shocking.

Fuck that scene ruled.

[Talisker]

Not that Rufus Sewell is an A-list actor or anything, but he has the sort of look I wouldn't mind seeing in the Riddler.
Good call, wouldn't've thought of him. "Ever hear of a place called Shell Beach?"

[Alex Dolce]

I really wouldn't look for Catwoman. Aside from the foul taste of the Catwoman movie, the character just wouldn't fit well in the presentation that Nolan's take has. Also, Catwoman wasn't a mass murdering serial killer or anything terribly catastrophic, was she? Wasn't she more of a really slick thief? If so, then devoting time to her as a major villain would just sort of not make sense, not while Batman has the entire city hating him. He needs bigger fish to fry to restore the public faith, and catching a thief - regardless of how talented she may be, or how much she steals - just wouldn't accomplish that.

I'm not against having Selena Kyle in the next movie, but she needs to be a minor character that Batman busts, and she definitely doesn't get a super villain costume.

Everything says Riddler to me, without the stupid question mark suit or wacky villain costume. But I've been over that already.

[Equis]

Everything says Riddler to me, without the stupid question mark suit or wacky villain costume. But I've been over that already.

How about both? A female Riddler, just like mentioned above. A cold calculating serial killer who leaves clues for Batman, while blaming the murders on Batman himself.

The you can have Selina Kyle, the flip side of the Riddler. She starts off as a minor character that runs into Batman during one of her heist. Batman mistakes her for the Riddler. Catwoman decides Batman is intriguing and ingratiates herself into his life. That kinda follows the comic somewhat. After all, it's not hard to characterise Selina Kyle as a hypersexual anti-hero who chases Batman. The minor character that forces herself to be the major character.

Both these woman appear in Bruce Wayne high society life. You could string it such that the suspicion that Catwoman and the Riddler are the same person for most of the movie. If there's anything Nolan is good at, it's confusing audience with what they think they know.

So one of the big themes will be how Bruce Wayne and Batman try to integrate his normal life with the hero he needs to be. After Rachel, Batman needs that level of female connection to realize he's just a man, instead of falling to the idea he's just a symbol. Sure, he has Gordon and Alfred, but there's only so much man-love Batman should gets before he forgets that unlike the villains he chase, he has to be human.

Either way, it does seem that the third movie should move into a more intimate look into Batman's life and psychosis. It's hard to imagine how much bigger they could they take the franchise after Dark Knight, especially with the Joker's future ambiguous.

Female villains who cannot appear in a Nolanized version would really be Poison Ivy. How do you ground her character in Nolan's gritty semi-realistic world.

[Rasputin]

Yes, you can't really get into the wacky, out there villains in his rogue's gallery in these movies as they won't fit in the "real" world. No Man-Bat, no Killer Croc, no Mr. Freeze. Ventriloquist would be too goofy, although a Nolanized Mad Hatter might be terrifying.

Likewise you can't do Catwoman and Penguin in the same movie, or risk bringing up bad memories.

If not Riddler, why not Harley Quinn? Or would that be too much?

I personally see Catwoman as a secondary character, one who is attracted to Batman and starts to lure him deeper into the darkness, now that he's feared and loathed by everyone. Why not take that final step, especially if they already believe the worst of him?

Something is going to have to bring him back into the light in the next one, and I have a feeling that it will be young Dick Grayson (note I do not say Robin).

[malkav11]

Mm. I could maybe see Killer Croc, actually. Man-Bat, no. Poison Ivy would need serious retuning, but I could see it. Just need to strip most of the mutant plant stuff and make her poison kiss poison lipstick rather than innately deadly lips.

[Bill Dungsroman]

Yes, you can't really get into the wacky, out there villains in his rogue's gallery in these movies as they won't fit in the "real" world. No Man-Bat, no Killer Croc, no Mr. Freeze. Ventriloquist would be too goofy, although a Nolanized Mad Hatter might be terrifying.

Likewise you can't do Catwoman and Penguin in the same movie, or risk bringing up bad memories.

If not Riddler, why not Harley Quinn? Or would that be too much?

I personally see Catwoman as a secondary character, one who is attracted to Batman and starts to lure him deeper into the darkness, now that he's feared and loathed by everyone. Why not take that final step, especially if they already believe the worst of him?

Something is going to have to bring him back into the light in the next one, and I have a feeling that it will be young Dick Grayson (note I do not say Robin).

I totally agree with the secondary status of Catwoman in the film. I'd barely even call her a villain as such. Temptation, maybe. Wayne finds some wayward solace in her because her skill at survival means she isn't as easy a target as Rachel was.

[zengonzo]

Maybe someone completely new? Add to the mythology?

[Thierry Nguyen]

I wouldn't center a movie around Killer Croc, but I think it'd be pretty neat to have a random throwaway cameo. He just needs to be a circus-style strongman with some fucked up skin and teeth.
I think an Ed Brubaker-written Black Mask would work in the Nolan-verse, but man alive, he'd probably pull an R-rating based on the shit he's done in the Brubaker Catwoman run.

[Wholly Schmidt]

Harley Quinn is a terrible idea without the Joker. She only really works as a sidekick to him, or in side stories written just about her and not really about Batman or anyone else. At best, she's too weak to carry a film, at worst, it comes off looking like a really tacky way to have more Joker-y antics in a world without Ledger or direct recasting of his part.

I wouldn't mind Ra's coming back for the third movie.

[Alex Dolce]

If there just had to be a second villain (in addition to the Riddler), I'd probably go with Poison Ivy, although retuned as some sort of eco-terrorist type. I wouldn't mind having a woman named Selena Kyle become the possible love interest of the next movie, but nowhere will she ever be referenced as Catwoman, nor will she put on any sort of costume.

[bloo]

I wouldn't mind Ra's coming back for the third movie.

I'd rather see Talia! She'd be much better at 'drawing Batman into darkness' than the jewel-thief Catwoman. But both might be fun.

[Jazar]

With regards to the next villan there's a minor spoiler from TDK.




The guy who works at Wane Industries and went on TV was Mr. Reese. The name kinda sounds like another version of Edward Nigma maybe?

[extarbags]

The guy who works at Wane Industries and went on TV was Mr. Reese. The name kinda sounds like another version of Edward Nigma maybe?

How so?

Edit: Oh wait I get it. Still, that seems pretty thin to me, and the character wasn't much.

[J. Matthew Zoss]

With regards to the next villan there's a minor spoiler from TDK.




The guy who works at Wane Industries and went on TV was Mr. Reese. The name kinda sounds like another version of Edward Nigma maybe?Yeah, good call. The actor kinda looks like the Riddler, too. And he did solve the mystery of Batman's identity.

That being said, he doesn't seem like he'd have a lot of weight as a villain. But add Phillip Seymour Hoffman in as an arms dealer called The Penguin...

[Jakub]

This movie was as PG-13 as Backdoor Sluts 9.

[theborbes]

don't you think the Riddler would be a bit much after a movie about the joker? Joker, riddler, next they'll invent some bad guy named the tongue twister.

[Jon Rowe]

Maybe someone completely new? Add to the mythology?

Nolan is so far from the typical mythology, I think adding a new villian would be a great idea. I mean, the way his batman movies are done some of (most of) the crazier villians would not work, so a new evil character would be the smart way to go.

[Mordrak]

This movie was as PG-13 as Backdoor Sluts 9.

Really? And a guy's heart being ripped out a heart in Temple of Doom isn't? It's amazing how conservative we've become over the last 30-40 years.

[Jakub]

Really? And a guy's heart being ripped out a heart in Temple of Doom isn't? It's amazing how conservative we've become over the last 30-40 years.
Temple of Doom was campy. Even as a kid I thought that scene and the face-melting in Ark were silly.

This was just... brutal. The pencil and "why so serious" were great scenes but I imagine a few parents regretted the choice to bring Junior to the movie.

[Mordrak]

Temple of Doom was campy. Even as a kid I thought that scene and the face-melting in Ark were silly.

This was just... brutal. The pencil and "why so serious" were great scenes but I imagine a few parents regretted the choice to bring Junior to the movie.

If the kids are old enough to emotionally distinguish between graphic but campy gore and the tone of the off screen violence in TDK, they are old enough to watch the TDK.

Our rating system has become so sanitized it's sickening.

[Andrew Mayer]

All the Planet of the Apes movies were rated G.

[Mordrak]

All the Planet of the Apes movies were rated G.

And today we digitally replace guns with cellphones in ET. *sigh*

[dashingly]

That being said, he doesn't seem like he'd have a lot of weight as a villain. But add Phillip Seymour Hoffman in as an arms dealer called The Penguin...I hope his Penguin would be heavily derived from Capote.


!!!(Please don't ever, ever cast any type of "comedian" in your Batfilms, Nolan. Please.)This is the dramatic Sandler, the one that has the batshit psychotic routine down.

[Alex Dolce]

And today we digitally replace guns with cellphones in ET. *sigh*
And The Watchmen trailer... (http://www.cinematical.com/2008/07/17/watchmen-trailers-spielberg-homaging-easter-egg/)