Dragon Age Countdown...

[Murbella]

Played with the character creator quickly this morning and noticed a few things:

1) No beards or moustaches. Fail. Even NWN2 had this.

2) No way to select your hair type other than choosing the preset first. Annoying.

3) No randomize button?

4) Can't rename my last name?

1) yeah, they almost always end up looking bad, but yes, this is too bad. I only checked out the elf though so maybe other races might be better on that.

2) huh, i was able to change my hair type. is there a more specific type of hair you're looking to change?

3) Presets are good enough for me. randoms tend to look funny.

4) Story related almost certainly, just like in mass effect. They likely want be able to call the player by name in voice acting, something that would be impossible without doing that. The same issue would be brought up with any family the player has in game (The human noble origin at the very least has a brother from the looks of the video).

[sam16]

Played with the character creator quickly this morning and noticed a few things:

1) No beards or moustaches. Fail. Even NWN2 had this.

There are beards. I think the only race that doesn't have beards are elves.


4) Can't rename my last name?

In most origins you have a family and it probably makes it easier for the writers to refer to you in conversations.

[Kunikos]

Oh, that explains it then. I was making an elvish mage.

The backgrounds look pretty crummy but the option is nice to have, I guess.

[unbongwah]

Might as well just let you win the game instantly if you sign up for their email newsletter or something.
Redefining "pay to play."

[pilonv1]

I'm just waiting for the day when you get extra loot and gear for completing three surveys and purchase an additional game.

Didn't the Red Alert 3 Special Edition come with an exclusive item for Warhammer Online?

[Marcin]

Am i the only one that strongly thinks braveheart when looking at the city elf origin?

A bit of that, and a bit of Witcher, what with the ghetto dwarves and persecuted minority elves.

Still, it's ok if they steal from the Greats!

[Kadath]

So you can preorder on Stardock, but its going to be on Steam too right?

[DragonPup]

Speaking of Steam, if I buy the retail version, can I still register it on Steam?

[Kadath]

Actually I guess they decided it won't be on Steam. Sucko =(

[Sarkus]

Actually I guess they decided it won't be on Steam. Sucko =(

Not sure what you are referring to, unless you are in a region where Steam is not allowed to sell it. Steam shows it as coming soon in the US and there is nothing in the threads about buying via Steam on the official boards that suggests that anything has changed. In fact, today was when it first showed up on Steam.

[Bahimiron]

No, it is not. According the Fernando Melo (I think?) from BIoware, you can link? your EA/Bioware account to your Xbox Live account or your PSN account

How does one do this? I don't see anything obvious in my account setup.

[Tony M]

Might as well just let you win the game instantly if you sign up for their email newsletter or something.

I'm concerned by this crossover between the real world and the game world. If our wives find out about this it could be used against us. "Sorry, I can't raid today. I have to mow the lawn so I can earn my Crown of Nurgle."

Tony

[Kadath]

Aw cool, guess the thread I saw was misinformed. Will see about cancelling my Stardock version maybe... Prefer steam if available there.

[Fugitive]

How does one do this? I don't see anything obvious in my account setup.
Do you already have an EA.com account? If so, you should be able to "Add a persona" from the account management page, and some of the types you can add are Xbox gamertags and PSN IDs. The 360 one is a fairly straightforward confirmation link through the email associated with the gamertag, but for the PSN one you have to run an EA game on a PS3 and do something there first, apparently (I haven't had one to test with).

(Edit: The EA.com account is also usable as your Bioware Social account, and probably vice-versa.)

[Royal Fool]

How does one do this? I don't see anything obvious in my account setup.

Just go to http://profile.ea.com and log into your account (uses the same credentials as that Bioware social website, but not the same as the Bioware forums, keep that in mind). You can then click a button called "Add Persona" to link your PSN and XBL stuff.

EDIT: Too late!

[Greatatlantic]

I just noticed the voice actor for Morrigan is the same actress as Aeryn Sun, the femme fatale of Farscape. Though she has a nice distinctive voice, it isn't showing very well in the previews.

[Sarkus]

I just noticed the voice actor for Morrigan is the same actress as Aeryn Sun, the femme fatale of Farscape. Though she has a nice distinctive voice, it isn't showing very well in the previews.

Claudia Black's done a lot more then Farscape, though that is probably her most famous role. She was also a regular in the last few years of Stargate SG1 and was in Pitch Black, so she has a fair amount of geek exposure.

I'm not sure how much voice acting she's done, though, so it will be interesting to see how she does. Sometimes using a very recognizable voice is a detriment to the character, and some of the best voice acting in video games has come from professional voice actors rather then professional stage/screen actors.

[Tom Chick]

Claudia Black's done a lot more then Farscape, though that is probably her most famous role.

Ah, that's where I know her from! She's also the new love interest in Uncharted 2. I knew I recognized that name.

-Tom

[Bahimiron]

Helpful information.

Hooray!

This also explains why bahimiron wasn't available on the Bioware social thingamajig. I'd already used it in Battlefield Heroes. (And apparently I'm also FartyBum in BH? Not sure how that happened.)

So I just link up my XBL account and that's it, I'm set up to get all kinds of awesome, free loot?

Pretty much I aspire to start the game with a magic shit in every slot. I'm only gonna be eatin' +1 sandwiches and thundering rootbeers. It's gonna be like Forgotten Realms up in there.

Edit: Aw, it's not to be. My laptop can't even run the character creator.

[Midnight Son]

I dl'd the character creator. It was interesting how it tried to phone home 3 or 4 different times.

And: It doesn't support left-handed mouse. Is it 1995 again?

[JM]

If Crichton's also in this, I'm buying a copy.

[Midnight Son]

http://i38.tinypic.com/1zch401.jpg

LOL!!

[Abilio Carvalho]

you need to post the sex scenes with that character onto youtube. Instant classic.

[Midnight Son]

Not my character, luckily.

[Shimarenda]

PCGamer for December arrived yesterday, but there was no review. Will it be in the Holiday issue (assuming there is one)? The January issue won't arrive until after the game has been released.

[Dan_Theman]

Aw cool, guess the thread I saw was misinformed. Will see about cancelling my Stardock version maybe... Prefer steam if available there.
Steam gives you one more freebie in-game item. However, if you have your 2009 poll discount from Stardock then you get 20% off there (it would only cost $52). To me, an in-game item that will very likely be modded into the game within a few days of release isn't worth an extra $13.

[Stridergg]

1) No beards or moustaches. Fail. Even NWN2 had this.

You get beards only if you download your Character Creator from IGN. And you get a +1 Constitution beard if you sign up for their newsletter.

:)

[Jag]

Edit: Aw, it's not to be. My laptop can't even run the character creator.

Yeah. I was going to tool around on it with my work PC, but it won't run. I guess I was expecting something basic like a text editor.

[Bahimiron]

I figured it was going to be a java applet or something. The moment I saw that the DL was over 200 megs, I realized my story was going to have a sad ending. No Banana +1 for me.

[Rock8man]

In contrast, I got it to run on my machine. I had every intention of waiting until next year to purchase this. And I still do. But after seeing the nice character creator, I have to admit, my conviction is waning. Well done Bioware. Good move.

[Murbella]

He Who Keeps the Completed Dragon Age PC Gold Dvd To Prop Up His Couch did state in this thread that the character creator was going to be exactly like that.

Now that people know the exact specifics of pretty much everything except specializations, someone will probably create a character planner like that eventually. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

[strategy]

Am I the only one who finds the character creator a tad... unstable? Have had a number of times where it locks up.

Apart from that, I like what I see. I don't usually bother with 0-day purchases, but nostalgia over BG1&2 as well as a recent replay of PS:T has me strongly considering this one. Just sad that the pre-order system is such a mess that I was quickly turned of from that idea. All the bonus DLC with every store having their own special stuff actually makes me feel less like buying this right away, instead of being an incentive.

Given that this is a moddable game (or at least that is what I gather from my browse through the community), what is the point of a lot of DLC trinkets? How many hours after the release of the game will it be before someone has made a free mod with all those trinkets added? The only really interesting addition seems to be the additional mission content in the deluxe edition, and only because one might save a little money.

[mkozlows]

Am I the only one who finds the character creator a tad... unstable? Have had a number of times where it locks up.

Welcome to PC gaming! I didn't have any stability problems, but it did install a "November 2007 DirectX update," which seemed like it might not be necessary on Windows 7, but hey. Also it crashed the spider solitaire game that I was running, probably relatedly.


Given that this is a moddable game (or at least that is what I gather from my browse through the community), what is the point of a lot of DLC trinkets?

Most people will play it on the 360, for reasons not unrelated to the rest of this post.

[Derek French]

...it did install a "November 2007 DirectX update," which seemed like it might not be necessary on Windows 7, but hey.

Actually, it is necessary to run it. DirectX setup is able to determine if you have the required files or not and install any missing ones across all supported MS operating systems. If you already have that update or a later one, it pretty much does its checking, then exits.

[Ben Sones]

Claudia Black's done a lot more then Farscape, though that is probably her most famous role. She was also a regular in the last few years of Stargate SG1 and was in Pitch Black, so she has a fair amount of geek exposure.

I hung out with Claudia Black at a party once. True story. So she has even more geek exposure than you think! Maybe even a lethal dose.

[RepoMan]

What, you killed her with pure overgeekery?????

You killed Claudia! YOU BASTARD!!!!!

[Joe M.]

Am I the only one who finds the character creator a tad... unstable? Have had a number of times where it locks up.

I had it running behind WoW for probably four or five hours with nary a hiccup.

[Murbella]

I had no problems with it either. Well, other than it wasn't the full game and didn't allow me to plan a full character...

[BleedTheFreak]

I had it running behind WoW for probably four or five hours with nary a hiccup.

You might be. What are your system specs?

[Joe M.]

Windows 7 RC, 64 bit. Radeon 4870. Dual core. 4gb RAM. It's run of the mill really for a gaming machine.

[Kadath]

Not sure what you are referring to, unless you are in a region where Steam is not allowed to sell it. Steam shows it as coming soon in the US and there is nothing in the threads about buying via Steam on the official boards that suggests that anything has changed. In fact, today was when it first showed up on Steam.

OK, the Deluxe edition is now on preorder on Steam for $10 cheaper than Impulse with at least as good if not better set of perks for preordering. Wonder how hard it is to cancel my Impulse order....

http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/39309975/m/911003371041/p/12

Actually, I'm looking around on Impulse and not sure you CAN cancel a preorder, anyone able to clue me in on that?

[malkav11]

I think an ECA-coded preorder of the regular edition from Amazon still winds up being the best deal: $42 up front, with a $10 certificate to apply towards another game purchase, for an effective net price of $32. Even after purchasing the Warden's Keep DLC (the only significant Deluxe content, imho), you're still ahead a good $10-15.

Of course, no ECA codes right now, but I'm expecting that to be fixed long before Dragon Age comes out.

[MrAnderson]

Go Steam.

With the built in launch day DLC +
The ability (I hope) to play on launch day +
Digital distribution (less home office clutter, and no need for disk in drive) +
a reasonable price (at least to me) =

Canceling my regular edition amazon order and Pre-ordering Digital Deluxe from Steam

[jobiasRKD]

OK, the Deluxe edition is now on preorder on Steam for $10 cheaper than Impulse with at least as good if not better set of perks for preordering. Wonder how hard it is to cancel my Impulse order....

http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/39309975/m/911003371041/p/12

Actually, I'm looking around on Impulse and not sure you CAN cancel a preorder, anyone able to clue me in on that?

I cancelled my pre-order by emailing sales(at)stardock.com with my order number. It should have been included with the email that came when you first made your pre-order.

[Desslock]

PCGamer for December arrived yesterday, but there was no review. Will it be in the Holiday issue (assuming there is one)? The January issue won't arrive until after the game has been released.

Next issue - just finished the review last Friday. Print times have come down a lot, but not that much, heh. But be the cover story for the holiday issue in 3 weeks.

[Murbella]

The steam version is confirmed to work with mods i assume?

It does seem like it may be one of the better options. Gogamer has it for $40, but probably like $5 shipping. Then the dlc costs $7 bringing the cost up to $52 vs the $54 for steam deluxe version.

[Sarkus]

I had no problems with it either. Well, other than it wasn't the full game and didn't allow me to plan a full character...

I've heard a few people complain about not being able to plan a character, but I'm not sure what they want. This is the character creation process you follow when you start the game. DA:O isn't like one of the NWN games where you can create different level characters for different uses, it's a typical CRPG where you start at level one and that's what the released character creator allows you to do.

Plus, it's not like you can't look at the non-highlighted skills, spells, and so on to get an idea of what options you'll have as your character develops. So from that standpoint there is plenty of character planning you can do.

Edit: Here (http://daforums.bioware.com/viewtopic.html?topic=693580&forum=135) and here (http://daforums.bioware.com/viewtopic.html?topic=696450&forum=135) are threads on the official boards where there is plenty of character planning going on for those who don't think the character creator gives them enough to work with. Someone who reads QT3 but doesn't have an account here recognized me and asked that I post it. :-)

[Murbella]

This is what i want, ported to Dragon Ages damn it! (http://nwn2db.com/builder.php)

Yeah, i wasn't really expecting them to do that since the previous ones have been made by fans.

It would have been cool though.

[Sarkus]

The steam version is confirmed to work with mods i assume?

It does seem like it may be one of the better options. Gogamer has it for $40, but probably like $5 shipping. Then the dlc costs $7 bringing the cost up to $52 vs the $54 for steam deluxe version.

I'm probably going to hold out and see if there are any retail store price deals at release. Maybe someone will offer the PC version for $40 or something, which would make the price including the first DLC lower then what else is out there.

I'm also waiting to see if they are going to allow a Steam pre-load for the game. If not, I'm guessing it's going to be pretty chaotic on the 3rd given the size of the game! :-)

[Tim James]

The steam version is confirmed to work with mods i assume?Steam always works with mods. There are only rare cases where some games use modified executables, but Steam is big enough now that people can cry and even get most of that implemented.

It's the launch day chaos that is the crapshoot.

[Shimarenda]

Next issue - just finished the review last Friday. Print times have come down a lot, but not that much, heh. But be the cover story for the holiday issue in 3 weeks.
Thank you, Desslock. That's good news.

[sventest]

Pre-ordered deluxe on Steam tonight. :)

[Joe M.]

I'm also waiting to see if they are going to allow a Steam pre-load for the game. If not, I'm guessing it's going to be pretty chaotic on the 3rd given the size of the game! :-)

Yeah, this will decide whether or not I cancel my Amazon pre-order. If we can't pre-load I may as well get a real box shipped because I'll be downloading for 1-2 days anyway... and that's only if everything goes smoothly.

[Murbella]

I'm not so sure about the new first level that comes from steam only dlc...
http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/3458/79d1236819897steamserve.jpg

[strategy]

OK, the Deluxe edition is now on preorder on Steam for $10 cheaper than Impulse with at least as good if not better set of perks for preordering. Wonder how hard it is to cancel my Impulse order....

Of course, Steam still has their $1 = 1 Euro conversion rate on new games, just to be sure to rip off those of us in Europe. Wish one could mobilize the European customers to boycott this kind of behavior, but fat chance of that happening.

[Sarkus]

Of course, Steam still has their $1 = 1 Euro conversion rate on new games, just to be sure to rip off those of us in Europe. Wish one could mobilize the European customers to boycott this kind of behavior, but fat chance of that happening.

What about GamersGate? They don't have the same price as Steam for the deluxe editions ($64.99 is what I'm seeing) but don't they adjust for currency? If not, then it's not really a Steam issue, is it?

[Alan Dunkin]

Yeah I kinda think that Steam might very well die in a 2-3 week span at the end of October and beginning of November.

Then we'll have Zombie Steam.

--- Alan

[habibi]

We have to pay to get items for a single player now?

[Chris Nahr]

Of course, Steam still has their $1 = 1 Euro conversion rate on new games, just to be sure to rip off those of us in Europe. Wish one could mobilize the European customers to boycott this kind of behavior, but fat chance of that happening.

I don't think you need to mobilize anyone. People are generally pretty good at not buying overpriced goods delivered through obscure channels. :)

Steam has apparently decided that they just aren't interested in selling to Europeans. Fine with me, I'll get my British disk copy as usual, super-cheap thanks to the rapidly self-destructing pound...

[Chris Nahr]

What about GamersGate? They don't have the same price as Steam for the deluxe editions ($64.99 is what I'm seeing) but don't they adjust for currency? If not, then it's not really a Steam issue, is it?

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here, but the same US version of Dragon Age (standard edition) on Impulse is €34.76 vs €49.99 on Steam. They also sell the deluxe edition for €45.23. Impulse uses roughly correct €/$ conversion rates and does not charge VAT. Steam does add VAT but as you can easily calculate for yourself, those 19% still don't come halfway to the extravagant extortionist prices Steam charges.

Oh, and I can get a physical copy of the standard edition for less than €30 from Britain (including 19% VAT). Even a physical copy from Amazon Germany, not known for its cheap game prices, is slightly cheaper than Steam (standard edition €46, includes VAT & shipping).

Steam charges the full European recommended retail price -- which is itself a fabulous rip-off, which is why smart European gamers who speak English never pay that price for any game. For a system that targets knowledgeable hardcore gamers such a pricing strategy strikes me as insane. But hey, I guess they just don't want to sell to Europeans!

[TurinTur]

As an european, i only use Steam for the offers.

[Sean Tudor]

Steam Deluxe version ordered! This game is going to melt the Steam content servers when it is released. :)

Might I also add this is an amazing deal for Australian gamers. At current exchange rates the Steam Deluxe version will only cost us ~AUD$60 compared to $100 for the boxed version.

[Dan_Theman]

I cancelled my pre-order by emailing sales(at)stardock.com with my order number. It should have been included with the email that came when you first made your pre-order.
You guys do still have your survey coupon from Impulse, right? (the 20% off coupon that expires in November)

[Larinson]

The annoying thing is that Steam purchasers will get it 3 days earlier than hard-copy purchasers in Europe. I wonder whether any of the retailers will ship early because of that?

[Scotten]

Steam Deluxe version ordered! This game is going to melt the Steam content servers when it is released. :)


I'm pretty much a Steam newb (I only use it for L4D), but can't you download the source files ahead of time and then start playing as soon as it unlocks?

[Fugitive]

I'm pretty much a Steam newb (I only use it for L4D), but can't you download the source files ahead of time and then start playing as soon as it unlocks?
They've only done that a small handful of times, and usually just for Valve's own games.

[strategy]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here, but the same US version of Dragon Age (standard edition) on Impulse is €34.76 vs €49.99 on Steam. They also sell the deluxe edition for €45.23.

On D2D, the download version of the standard edition is approximately 31 Euro - pretty much the same price as the US version. Rip off does not even begin to describe it. But I guess Chris is right in simply concluding that Steam isn't interested in selling to us. A pity, as I rather like services like Steam and Impulse (unfortunately Impulse doesn't have this in Europe).

[Sarkus]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here, but the same US version of Dragon Age (standard edition) on Impulse is €34.76 vs €49.99 on Steam. They also sell the deluxe edition for €45.23. Impulse uses roughly correct €/$ conversion rates and does not charge VAT. Steam does add VAT but as you can easily calculate for yourself, those 19% still don't come halfway to the extravagant extortionist prices Steam charges.

Steam charges the full European recommended retail price -- which is itself a fabulous rip-off, which is why smart European gamers who speak English never pay that price for any game. For a system that targets knowledgeable hardcore gamers such a pricing strategy strikes me as insane. But hey, I guess they just don't want to sell to Europeans!

My point was simply that if you (i.e. Europeans) have other options I don't get why anyone (in this case strategy) would bother to talk about boycotting Steam. Of course it makes sense to go elsewhere and I'm sure Steam knows that. For whatever reason they've decided not to bother with accurate exchange rates.

Do you boycott department stores that charge more for the same thing you can get cheaper elsewhere? I don't think so. Retailers charge what they decide to charge for things for a variety of reasons.

[strategy]

My point was simply that if you (i.e. Europeans) have other options I don't get why anyone (in this case strategy) would bother to talk about boycotting Steam.

Because I'm sure Steam will sell its fair share of Dragon Age on the European market, thereby validating its pricing policies. they wouldn't be doing it if they weren't getting away with it. If one doesn't spend the time to actually find out what the US prices are and don't use other services (a lot of people don't want to use more than one or two), one probably wouldn't even notice the huge price differences.

[Kalle]

If you're buying games online then it's a short step from Steam to mail order which is always going to end up being a better deal, and which already has a lot more mindspace than Impulse/D2D and the like.

[Sarkus]

Because I'm sure Steam will sell its fair share of Dragon Age on the European market, thereby validating its pricing policies. they wouldn't be doing it if they weren't getting away with it. If one doesn't spend the time to actually find out what the US prices are and don't use other services (a lot of people don't want to use more than one or two), one probably wouldn't even notice the huge price differences.

If you are blindly always buying things from one source and not bothering to check the competition you deserve what you get.

[TurinTur]

http://www.play.com/Games/PC/4-/6060875/Dragon-Age-Origins/Product.html

35.5€, free shipping.

Wait, here is cheaper
http://www.blahdvd.com/Games/Dragon-Age-Origins-PC/DRAGONAGEPC/product.htm
28€, 29 or 29.5€ with shipping.

[Stridergg]

If you are blindly always buying things from one source and not bothering to check the competition you deserve what you get.

I am not sure how Steam displays their price to the EU users - in dollars or euros. I know that for Canadians the price is displayed in USD and then properly converted to CAD at the time of transaction. If Steam shows EU price in USD but then silently converts it to EUR on 1:1 basis, I can see the reason to be pissed off.

[Royal Fool]

$!%@?&#

Why didn't I take advantage of that deal yesterday... Steam must have made a mistake because the price has been jacked up to $64.99 now. Urgh!

Pretty bummed... especially since the deluxe version isn't available anywhere in Europe. Anyone know the cheapest place to order it that'll ship internationally (and won't charge an arm and a leg for that)?

[strategy]

If you are blindly always buying things from one source and not bothering to check the competition you deserve what you get.

Yeah... which is why I wish people would wise up.

@RF: Direct2Drive seems to have the deluxe edition download for UK and EU.

[Murbella]

That is so strange. $65 is pretty crazy when you can buy the game for as low as $40, get the dlc for $7 and then all you get beyond that is like 4 items for the remaining amount. At 54, you only had to pay a few dollars above what buying them separately would cost with shipping. At $65 i can't see any reason to buy that version.

Not to mention i'd imagine you could simply cheat yourself most of the items.

[Cormac]

Has Steam made any recent official statements regarding their European pricing policies?

[wolfbane]

Pretty bummed... especially since the deluxe version isn't available anywhere in Europe. Anyone know the cheapest place to order it that'll ship internationally (and won't charge an arm and a leg for that)?

At least here in Sweden there are several different ways to buy the deluxe edition including download from 4 different companies(each offering different items).

[Murbella]

Digital distribution may be the future, but it still annoys me that games are more expensive via digital distribution than actually buying a physical copy.

[wolfbane]

Well, for once is the downloaded Deluxe version cheaper then the physical version but the normal versions costs the same(again here in Sweden).

[Murbella]

deluxe is more expensive than the physical collector's edition with its goodies.

[thurauh1]

I think the Steam version of any game in Europe are priced the same in Euros as in US Dollars, since Steam also collects sales tax and other production costs. This means a 40 US Dollar will be like 50-55 Dollars, at leasy in Denmark, because of our 25% sales tax, and maybe some customs tax, too, if we import it from the US? (even if it is an immateriel good, customs tax still has to be paid, I suppose?)

[Royal Fool]

After some more deliberation, I've decided to just take the plunge on the Steam deluxe edition. I am getting a lot of content for my money (paying for shiny trinkets is reprehensible, I know) and in fact I'm getting a far better deal than most others in Europe, since I'm charged in USD. Importing the collector's edition from the US would just be way too expensive.

Still, this is the second most I've ever spent on a PC game, the most being when I imported the US collector's edition version of WoW.

[Mordrak]

deluxe is more expensive than the physical collector's edition with its goodies.

Ya, I think I'm going to pass and see how quickly the PC version price drops. I'm really interested in it, but I'm kind of broke anyway and shouldn't be supporting all this nonsense as well.

[Murbella]

Even if only talking about in the usa, the deluxe version at $64.99 just doesn't add up when compared to buying the base game and dlc separately. Unless you value the extra 3 or so items as being worth $2-3 each.

[Kadath]

$!%@?&#

Why didn't I take advantage of that deal yesterday... Steam must have made a mistake because the price has been jacked up to $64.99 now. Urgh!

Pretty bummed... especially since the deluxe version isn't available anywhere in Europe. Anyone know the cheapest place to order it that'll ship internationally (and won't charge an arm and a leg for that)?

I cancelled my Stardock Preorder via email, I hope Steam is going to honor the pre order at the discounted price I got in on....

[Chris Nahr]

I think the Steam version of any game in Europe are priced the same in Euros as in US Dollars, since Steam also collects sales tax and other production costs. This means a 40 US Dollar will be like 50-55 Dollars, at leasy in Denmark, because of our 25% sales tax, and maybe some customs tax, too, if we import it from the US? (even if it is an immateriel good, customs tax still has to be paid, I suppose?)

I have already explained above, at great length, why this is not true. At least in the case of Euro currency countries.

[Sol Invictus]

I grabbed the Digital Deluxe edition from Steam when it was at 55. The price has gone up to 65 because it was apparently a mistake on their end, but some Steam rep said on the forums that anyone who purchased it for 55 gets to keep it at that price.

[aphoristic gamer]

PC Gamer UK review: 94%

"A truly astonishing game. Vast, vivid and microscopically detailed. Dragon Age is the RPG of the decade"

"'But coming out the other end of an epic 80 hours first playthrough, I leave with memories that feel like more than simple events in a game.'"

"The main negative they mention is the difficulty levels. The reviewer says he had to play through some parts on easy and even then there were some incredibly tough battles."

PC Gamer FR review: 95%

""Old-school gameplay with a fast rythm and a foregrounding of the story, this title mixes together the best of what Bioware has done in the last few years. The intensity of a Baldur's Gate and the depth of a good book series, what more could you ask for?""

[Equisilus]

Must. Not. Get. Expectations. Up. Too. High.

I'm actually having fun with the character creator. I thought I might have avoided it altogether, since character design and development is a big part of the game for me. I think it's going to be good on getting a big selection of self-made characters for me to choose from so that I can maximize the replay value of the game since the combinations are limited. Getting my first six characters to have each of the origins while trying all the races, sexes, and base classes isn't as easy as you might think.

[Ryan A]

I just pre-ordered the xbox 360 version of the game. It was a difficult choice because the PC version is cheaper and I love CRPG, but my experience with multi-platform games has been less than satisfactory when I've played them on the PC: it seems they're primarily tuned for the console. That, and I'm a sucker for getting Achievement points.

[Sol Invictus]

If you get the console version of the game you won't be able to zoom out Baldur's Gate style.

[Desslock]

If you get the console version of the game you won't be able to zoom out Baldur's Gate style.

There are also PC achievements.

[Ryan A]

There are also PC achievements.

For some reason I don't find Steam achievements or PC achievements as compelling as XBL achievements. I don't even know why I enjoy getting achievements in XBL - they mean nothing and I'm at least 4 million behind all my friends, but they're an effective carrot for me.

[Mordrak]

For some reason I don't find Steam achievements or PC achievements as compelling as XBL achievements. I don't even know why I enjoy getting achievements in XBL - they mean nothing and I'm at least 4 million behind all my friends, but they're an effective carrot for me.

The PC achievements for Mass Effect were reasonably compelling for me, but that's because they had effects on replays, etc. I don't know if Dragon Age achievements are similar though.

[Squee]

The PC achievements for Mass Effect were reasonably compelling for me, but that's because they had effects on replays, etc. I don't know if Dragon Age achievements are similar though.
I'd hope not.

[Ryan A]

If you get the console version of the game you won't be able to zoom out Baldur's Gate style.

I'm not sure why I would want to zoom out to isometric view in a game with this type of combat gameplay.

[Murbella]

I'd hope not.
Why not? I felt real bonuses to achievements made them worthwhile and encouraged the player to try hard to get them.

[Sol Invictus]

I'm not sure why I would want to zoom out to isometric view in a game with this type of combat gameplay.

Why not? It worked for Baldur's Gate. Not that I'm going to contest your decision, but you're going to be constricted to KOTOR/FFXII style 3rd person on the console. I like having the option to zoom out for the axonometric tactical view.

As Desslock said, you'll also get achievements on the PC version and a character profile that you can upload to Bioware's social site.

[Greatatlantic]

For some reason I don't find Steam achievements or PC achievements as compelling as XBL achievements. I don't even know why I enjoy getting achievements in XBL - they mean nothing and I'm at least 4 million behind all my friends, but they're an effective carrot for me.

I'm tempted to recommend a 12 step program for you.

[Ryan A]

Why not? It worked for Baldur's Gate. Not that I'm going to contest your decision, but you're going to be constricted to KOTOR/FFXII style 3rd person on the console. I like having the option to zoom out for the axonometric tactical view.

It worked for Baldur's Gate, which has a completely different combat system. I am anticipating the combat in this game will be much closer to Mass Effect than Baldur's Gate. I enjoyed Mass Effect on the XBox.

[Luke M]

I just pre-ordered the xbox 360 version of the game. It was a difficult choice because the PC version is cheaper and I love CRPG, but my experience with multi-platform games has been less than satisfactory when I've played them on the PC: it seems they're primarily tuned for the console. That, and I'm a sucker for getting Achievement points.

Ryan, the PC is Dragon Age's lead platform. It's being ported down to 360 and PS3. The PC version includes achievements that, I think, post to your profile on Bioware's website and extensive mod support. I think it even comes with NWN-style modding tools. I usually play RPGs on 360, and I love Live! achievements, but this is pretty clearly a PC game.

Also, this game has been billed by eveyrone who's tried it as the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate. It sounds like you're going to want that isometric view option.

[Ryan A]

You guys suck. I wavered between PC and XBox 360 all month and finally made my choice! Now you have me considering whether I should cancel the Amazon preorder and switch to a Steam preorder.

I do like gaming from my lazyboy set 4 feet from my HDTV though...

[Squee]

Not really a fan of getting improvements for other characters in RPG-RPGs. Didn't bother me as much in Mass Effect since it was an easy action RPG, but if Dragon Age is going to be a difficult party combat RPG I wouldn't want bonuses from other characters carrying into new games. It would make the first play through of the game harder than subsequent ones, which doesn't particularly make sense.

And achievements shouldn't have to have extra incentive tied to them. Their best use is giving you an excuse to play a game you already want to play by giving you optional additional goals for after you beat a game/to increase your current play time, like carrying lawn gnomes and getting skills for kills, agent. Can't say as I've ever played a game longer than I wanted to just for achievements, though I know there are certainly people who do that.

[Kadath]

I grabbed the Digital Deluxe edition from Steam when it was at 55. The price has gone up to 65 because it was apparently a mistake on their end, but some Steam rep said on the forums that anyone who purchased it for 55 gets to keep it at that price.

Cool, if you happen to have a link to that it would be appreciated. I got one over on "The Man" woohoo!

[Royal Fool]

Isn't your card charged the moment you pre-order on Steam anyway?

[Ryan A]

I just cancelled my Amazon preorder for the Xbox version. Back to wishywashyland for me.

[Murbella]

Not really a fan of getting improvements for other characters in RPG-RPGs. Didn't bother me as much in Mass Effect since it was an easy action RPG, but if Dragon Age is going to be a difficult party combat RPG I wouldn't want bonuses from other characters carrying into new games. It would make the first play through of the game harder than subsequent ones, which doesn't particularly make sense.

And achievements shouldn't have to have extra incentive tied to them. Their best use is giving you an excuse to play a game you already want to play by giving you optional additional goals for after you beat a game/to increase your current play time, like carrying lawn gnomes and getting skills for kills, agent. Can't say as I've ever played a game longer than I wanted to just for achievements, though I know there are certainly people who do that.
Nothing was stopping you from playing through any difficulty without any achievements (well other than the ones to unlock the difficulty obviously) in mass effect because the achievement bonuses weren't huge bonuses to your power. They were just small but noticeable increases. You also could get a number of them before a single play through was done.

[awdougherty]

Ryan A, for me the deciding factor was that only the PC version has the ability to pull back to the isometric view like the old Black Isle games. The editor is just an added bonus for me.

[RepoMan]

Yeah, if you can't play Baldur's Gate's spiritual successor(TM) from isometric view, WHAT IS THE GODDAMNED POINT OF LIVING?????

(I'm not even kidding here, I preordered it for PC!)

[Tyrion]

I just cancelled my Amazon preorder for the Xbox version. Back to wishywashyland for me.
If you're an achievement whore, go for the PC version. There are like 150 of them as opposed to 50 on the Xbox version.

[mkozlows]

Ryan A, for me the deciding factor was that only the PC version has the ability to pull back to the isometric view like the old Black Isle games.

Except NWN2 had that view, too, and I hated hated hated it, and wanted to just put it into KOTOR mode. The Baldur's Gate UI works great for Baldur's Gate, but if Dragonage is designed for the sort of perspective that every Bioware game has used since 2002, then trying to pretend it's BG won't make you happy.

[Tony M]

I just uploaded my character for the free magic item. I can still remember the old days when I would pry my loot from the cold dead hands of my mortal enemies. Now I just fill out a requisition form. "Please send me my +1 sword. Yours sincerly, Conan".

Balon Greyjoy would not be impressed.

Tony

[Equisilus]

I'm not sure why I would want to zoom out to isometric view in a game with this type of combat gameplay.

Good god, man, that's one of the big reasons why I'm excited about DA:O. The zoomed out view is perfect for party-based combat where I pause a lot. I expect I'll be bouncing around among all sorts of zoom levels, though, depending on what I'm doing.

[Ryan A]

Good god, man, that's one of the big reasons why I'm excited about DA:O. The zoomed out view is perfect for party-based combat where I pause a lot. I expect I'll be bouncing around among all sorts of zoom levels, though, depending on what I'm doing.

Maybe I have the wrong idea about the combat. Won't it be more like Jade Empires/Mass Effect (or on the PC maybe The Witcher) where the action of the combat is half the fun? From the videos I've seen it looks pretty actioney rather than the pause, click enemy, click attack type gameplay of NWN2, etc.

[awdougherty]

Except NWN2 had that view, too, and I hated hated hated it, and wanted to just put it into KOTOR mode. The Baldur's Gate UI works great for Baldur's Gate, but if Dragonage is designed for the sort of perspective that every Bioware game has used since 2002, then trying to pretend it's BG won't make you happy.

I have a feeling I'll do a lot of what I've been doing in The Witcher. Using some sort of 3rd person behind the character for the majority of movement but going up top when there's a large battle. I definitely want the isometric option at least.

[Eightball]

Maybe I have the wrong idea about the combat. Won't it be more like Jade Empires/Mass Effect (or on the PC maybe The Witcher) where the action of the combat is half the fun? From the videos I've seen it looks pretty actioney rather than the pause, click enemy, click attack type gameplay of NWN2, etc.

It's not actiony...it's classic BG style pause & issue orders...

[Murbella]

Maybe I have the wrong idea about the combat. Won't it be more like Jade Empires/Mass Effect (or on the PC maybe The Witcher) where the action of the combat is half the fun? From the videos I've seen it looks pretty actioney rather than the pause, click enemy, click attack type gameplay of NWN2, etc.
Yeah have you watched the video linked a while back?

I won't get in to how being a 100% mouse user and not using the keyboard makes me cringe, but throughout the entire video, the host was pausing before every fight and then during the fight to do stuff. Since he was a clicker, he also had to pause to find the button to drink a potion as well.

Dragon ages sounds exactly like the nwn2 situation from everything i've seen about it.

[Joe M.]

From the low level action that we saw in the giant bomb video I think it may be fair to say you'll get destroyed if you aren't pausing on harder difficulties, and if not using the isometric view... at least using pause to think through your combat a little. I don't think this is an either/or proposition at all, but rather a question of "why wouldn't you use both?" in appropriate situations.

Being absolutely tied to the action view probably won't be a tragedy but I wouldn't go that route if I had a choice (and we do!)

[mono]

I grabbed the Digital Deluxe edition from Steam when it was at 55. The price has gone up to 65 because it was apparently a mistake on their end, but some Steam rep said on the forums that anyone who purchased it for 55 gets to keep it at that price.

That's a ridiculous price. I felt like a sucker paying $55 for the Digital Deluxe edition. The standard edition is $47 on Amazon, and add the $7 Warden's Keep DLC, and it's still only $54. I don't see what else you're getting from the digital deluxe edition to warrant yet another $10 bucks.

[Murbella]

That's a ridiculous price. I felt like a sucker paying $55 for the Digital Deluxe edition. The standard edition is $47 on Amazon, and add the $7 Warden's Keep DLC, and it's still only $54. I don't see what else you're getting from the digital deluxe edition to warrant yet another $10 bucks.

-Digital Soundtrack: hrmm used to be free generally...
-Wallpapers: are you serious?
-3 items (Grimoire of the Frozen Wastes, Final Reason, Bergen's Honor)

So assuming the $54 with dlc price which is a little higher than the lowest price, you pay $10 for those.

Lets say...

$4 soundtrack (questionable)
$0 wallpapers
$2 Grimoire of the Frozen Wastes
$2 Final Reason
$2 Bergen's Honor
The knowledge that you just spent money buying items in a single player rpg, priceless.

I would have bought it for $54 though since it was only a little more than buying the base game & dlc separately. Sadly i didn't even realize other places were selling it for so much so didn't instantly preorder.

[Warning]

After struggling to get Mass Effect to work on Windows 7 64-bit I preordered the 360 version of Dragon Age. I want to be sure I can play this again in 2-5 years without messing with it.

[Vesper]

After struggling to get Mass Effect to work on Windows 7 64-bit I preordered the 360 version of Dragon Age. I want to be sure I can play this again in 2-5 years without messing with it.
Out of curiosity.. what was the issue with ME on W7-64? I've been planning all along to install the 64 bit flavor next week, since everyone around here assured me there were no compatibility problems.

[Telefrog]

Meh. I went ahead and preordered the Steam regular version. I see no need to pay $10 extra for the piddly LE stuff. I can get the DLC myself if I feel like it.

[Syzygy]

After struggling to get Mass Effect to work on Windows 7 64-bit I preordered the 360 version of Dragon Age. I want to be sure I can play this again in 2-5 years without messing with it.
Hope your 360 is still ticking. ;)

[Murbella]

Hope your 360 is still ticking. ;)
Yeah I'd have to agree. i'd say the chances of dragon age running on windows 9 or whatever is out in 2-5 years (ignoring the fact that many people will still probably be using vista which it works perfectly fine in) are likely higher than it still working on your current xbox360.

[Syzygy]

I generally like to buy on the lead SKU when possible. I'll be picking up DA:O on PC and Mass Effect 2 on 360.

[Sarkus]

An actual thread on the official boards:

Q:"Why does Morrigan's Breasts look small on some of her images and larger in some other images of her?"

R:"She is a shapeshifter after all."

R: "I thought it was pretty damn funny she was whining about freezing to death (in the Sacred Ashes trailer), and well, still had major cleavege. Classic cliche' fantasy!"

R: "Dunno i think she was lying. I mean 3:12, her nipples aren't exactly... I wont say anymore."

R: "I want to hear Claudia Black start singing, "My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard..." while Morrigan jiggles her breasts in her hands. Because, you know, if we're going to talk about CG boobs, we might was well go all out."

[Shimarenda]

Maybe the marketing campaign wasn't as off-target as I thought.

[Bahimiron]

An actual thread on the official boards:

It's obvious you never read some of the old Mass Effect threads. Or heard Shawn Elliot's dramatic reading (http://download.gamevideos.com/Podcasts/CGW/GFWRadio_HeroesCollection/GFWRadio_HOTW_08-28.mp3).

[Destarius]

Yeah I'd have to agree. i'd say the chances of dragon age running on windows 9 or whatever is out in 2-5 years (ignoring the fact that many people will still probably be using vista which it works perfectly fine in) are likely higher than it still working on your current xbox360.

Bonus side effect: you get to max out the graphics on a newer system if the game can take advantage of it, so it will look TONS better than on 360.

[Sol Invictus]

It's obvious you never read some of the old Mass Effect threads. Or heard Shawn Elliot's dramatic reading (http://download.gamevideos.com/Podcasts/CGW/GFWRadio_HeroesCollection/GFWRadio_HOTW_08-28.mp3).

Brilliant.

[Lizard_King]

Out of curiosity.. what was the issue with ME on W7-64? I've been planning all along to install the 64 bit flavor next week, since everyone around here assured me there were no compatibility problems.

I've had no problem playing ME with Windows 7/64, apart from the general complaint of how Steam handled DLC. It does have the longest initial load time of any of my games, but it's nowhere near any 360 load time. I expect to get it on both platforms, again.

[Warning]

Out of curiosity.. what was the issue with ME on W7-64? I've been planning all along to install the 64 bit flavor next week, since everyone around here assured me there were no compatibility problems.
I don't know if it's specific to the 64-bit version but that's the only one I'm running. I have the Steam version of Mass Effect and I can only run it from a shortcut as an administrator. My kids who don't have administrator accounts can't play it on their account at all. Sometimes the game doesn't launch at all. I sold my 360 version when I got my new computer and I reallly wish I hadn't.

[Stridergg]

After struggling to get Mass Effect to work on Windows 7 64-bit I preordered the 360 version of Dragon Age. I want to be sure I can play this again in 2-5 years without messing with it.

In 5 years you will be able to pick up the 360 version of DA:O - Gold Edition for like $7.99. And a new 360 for $50. :)

[BleedTheFreak]

In 5 years you will be able to pick up the 360 version of DA:O - Gold Edition for like $7.99. And a new 360 for $50. :)

While the rest of us finish up Dragon Age 3... ;)

[Case]

I don't know if it's specific to the 64-bit version but that's the only one I'm running. I have the Steam version of Mass Effect and I can only run it from a shortcut as an administrator. My kids who don't have administrator accounts can't play it on their account at all. Sometimes the game doesn't launch at all. I sold my 360 version when I got my new computer and I reallly wish I hadn't.

I initially had issues running ME on Win7 x64. After installing the DLC, it all works normally -- no funky shortcuts needed.

I did have to manually edit a config file to get full resolution (I've got a 30-inch, 2560x1600 display), but most "normal" resolutions seem to be supported.

[Sean Tudor]

Why didn't I take advantage of that deal yesterday... Steam must have made a mistake because the price has been jacked up to $64.99 now. Urgh!


Wow .. lucky I ordered it as soon as it appeared. They only charged me US$54.99.

[nordhus]

Eurogamer (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/dragon-age-origins-hands-on_6) has publised a long and positive Hands On with Dragon Age.

[Dave Weinstein]

Does anyone know if the Impulse version of DA will have copy protection?

[Fugitive]

Does anyone know if the Impulse version of DA will have copy protection?
The Impulse page talks about an "enclosed serial code", so I'd guess that there'll be SecuROM online activation, just like most of EA's other games. Or maybe GOO, if that's just boilerplate text, but I'd expect it to be protected in some way.

[Tankero]

While the rest of us finish up Dragon Age 3... ;)
... On a PC!

[mkozlows]

So when will we see the reviews of the 360 version? I really really really don't want to play it on PC for a lot of reasons, but I don't want to play a sucky stripped-down version, either.

[Sarkus]

The Impulse page talks about an "enclosed serial code", so I'd guess that there'll be SecuROM online activation, just like most of EA's other games. Or maybe GOO, if that's just boilerplate text, but I'd expect it to be protected in some way.

There's no securom on the disks for DA:O, which they announced some time ago. However, they have said that there may be stuff added on the digital copies dependent on the service, like Steam.

As for Impulse, I'm sure they just are talking about the serial number you need to register your copy with Bioware. Since you have to do that to get the free "Shale" quest and NPC (everyone who buys the game new gets that), there would need to be some way for them to track specific ownership.

[Benhur]

Eurogamer (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/dragon-age-origins-hands-on_6) has publised a long and positive Hands On with Dragon Age.

There are SPOILERS in the article, as I just found out, so be careful. Thanks for the article, though; some pretty good stuff in there.

[Desslock]

There are SPOILERS in the article, as I just found out, so be careful. Thanks for the article, though; some pretty good stuff in there.

Yeah, that article has some serious spoilers that I'm glad I didn't know prior to playing the game. Good article, AI-scripting goes back a lot further than Final Fantasy 12 though - the original Baldur's Gate has AI scriptiing.

[StephenC]

I don't think this has been linked to already?

The latest version of the character planning spreadsheet was released on Friday and its still being updated on a regular basis.

The Excel sheets are available from http://cid-698700364f1169a9.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Public/Dragon%20Age%20Origins and the official site blog here http://social.bioware.com/129/blog/163/.

[idrisz]

Yeah, that article has some serious spoilers that I'm glad I didn't know prior to playing the game. Good article, AI-scripting goes back a lot further than Final Fantasy 12 though - the original Baldur's Gate has AI scriptiing.

I remember from playing Baldur's Gate, the AI scripting was behind the scene, the only thing player can control was whether to turn it on or off, the options player get was like "Use item" on/off, "cast magic" on/off, you can't have character to perform an act in reaction to something.

FF12 allow the user to customing actions that reacts to like self health drop to less than 50% use a potion(you can select which item to use), you can organize their priority, so when their health drop to 50, they will cast protect on themself and then drink a potion.

[Morberis]

I remember from playing Baldur's Gate, the AI scripting was behind the scene, the only thing player can control was whether to turn it on or off, the options player get was like "Use item" on/off, "cast magic" on/off, you can't have character to perform an act in reaction to something.

FF12 allow the user to customing actions that reacts to like self health drop to less than 50% use a potion(you can select which item to use), you can organize their priority, so when their health drop to 50, they will cast protect on themself and then drink a potion.


Technically couldn't you import custom scripts? But definitely nothing an average gamer would be able to do.

[idrisz]

I think they should just taken the spell Contingency and make it available for all skills...

[ImaTarget]

I don't think this has been linked to already?

The latest version of the character planning spreadsheet was released on Friday and its still being updated on a regular basis.

The Excel sheets are available from http://cid-698700364f1169a9.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Public/Dragon%20Age%20Origins and the official site blog here http://social.bioware.com/129/blog/163/.


Thank you for sharing, this will keep me busy.

[Desslock]

I remember from playing Baldur's Gate, the AI scripting was behind the scene.

You could create customized scripts - originally BG was supposed to be played in real-time, without pausing/issuing orders, so that was going to be a key component to the game. In the end, that was unworkable given the complexities of D&D, but those tools are still included with the game, even if they weren't intuitive for the average player.

Dragon's Age essentially finally completes that design objective and allows you to rely upon the scripts to more frequently just let the game play in real-time for longer durations than was practicable in the original BG games.

I strongly disagree with the conclusion in the article that you can use those scripts to play the game in real-time on higher difficulty levels, however. Maybe for trivial battles or maybe the article just meant that you didn't have to interrupt the combat to issue orders as frequently, but you'll get slaughtered in DA on even normal difficulty, let alone higher levels, if you don't take direct control in essentially any non-trivial battle.

Which is not to say it's not a really cool tool, however. I would rather use my skill points on abilities instead of additional tactics slots, however.

[Ryan A]

OK. I just preordered the xbox 360 version at my local Gamestop, since I had some dogs to trade in, among them Sacred 2 (thanks a lot Tom, this one was almost as bad as the time I bought Animal Crossing because of the Qt3 buzz). My gaming desktop is nowhere near cutting edge so I won't get to enjoy much of the graphical differences and I really really like gaming from my lazyboy.

Also, I just took a personal leave day for November 4. Color me excited.

[Vesper]

OK. I just preordered the xbox 360 version at my local Gamesto
Wait.. didn't we just talk you OUT of the 360 version when you canceled your Amazon order?

[Ryan A]

Wait.. didn't we just talk you OUT of the 360 version when you canceled your Amazon order?

haha, sort of. Then playing Drakensang on my desktop PC talked me back into the 360 version. I have a decent gaming rig for older turn-based games and mmo's, but it just doesn't have the horsepower to let me enjoy anything that's supposed to be visually impressive.

[BleedTheFreak]

Also, I just took a personal leave day for November 4. Color me excited.

Rookie mistake.

You take the 5th as your personal day, so you can enjoy the game after you pick it up after work on the 4th and then enjoy the game the ENTIRE day on the 5th!*

*This assumes the game ships on the 3rd and is available on the 4th, like most games, but I suppose this title is big enough (and was finished long enough ago) that it's very possible you're gold here.

[SirTomster]

Heh. My son has taken tomorrow off from his evil boss (me) to get Borderlands tonight at the midnight release party.

I debated taking the 4th or 5th off for this but the Wife already freaked about 1 gamer taking a day off to play a video game.

But need my time for important stuff like days I want to sleep in. Not like 15 years ago when I called in sick from work for a week to play Total Annihilation. Ah to be young and stupid again.

[Ryan A]

Rookie mistake.

You take the 5th as your personal day, so you can enjoy the game after you pick it up after work on the 4th and then enjoy the game the ENTIRE day on the 5th!*

*This assumes the game ships on the 3rd and is available on the 4th, like most games, but I suppose this title is big enough (and was finished long enough ago) that it's very possible you're gold here.

While I would actually really love to catass all day long with a new game, that's not in the cards for me: even if the game's not available until the store opens on the 4th, that leaves me plenty of gaming time in addition to the other niceties of a midweek personal day: leisurely breakfast with my wife, morning motorcycle ride (weather permitting), and a day WITH NO EMAIL!

[Woolen Horde]

I won't go into specifics and details and spoilers, but I have played through Dragon Age, and it's easily BioWare's best RPG. It's also BioWare's biggest RPG. I mean, this thing is HUGE. It's got a huge story, a huge cast of characters, and it's really quite complex in terms of the relationship mechanics. Admittedly, there's a dungeon or two that are really grindy and feel like they're lengthy for legnthy's sake (seriously, they could have been chopped in half and they'd still be a bit too big), but otherwise the rest of the game just dazzles.

I'm hoping BioWare has tweaked the difficulty since I played, because at default this was a really brutal game at certain points. In fact, though it's supposed to scale with you since you can go through the story in different ways, it got so tough that about halfway through I adjusted the difficulty down to easy. Even then, many of the boss battles were incredibly micro-heavy. I had to constantly pause the action to order guys to drink healing potions or for the mages to bail someone out, else they're dead. Mouse and keyboard are your friend, though I didn't really try it out with the gamepad.

Still. GET THE PC VERSION. There are a gazillion loading screens that you'll encounter, and on the PC the wait isn't too bad, but I shudder at the thought of all those loads on a 360 or PS3.

About my only real complaint is that "adult" aspects are somewhat sophomoric. There are really awesome slow-mo kill moves, but after every battle the blood splatter is so ridiculously over-the-top that you want to laugh. And for sex scenes are uncomfortable. They're just.... awkward.

Also, when the game arrives, here's a big technical hint: Gift giving is done by dragging the gift onto the character's avatar in the inventory screen. I thought it was broken or something, and I never figured it out till near the end. Gifts have a HUGE role in helping to keep someone happy, even when every decision you're making is pissing them off to no end. This was a problem since I was accumulating all these gifts and I couldn't give them away and they were eating valuable inventory space.

Speaking of which, inventory is better than Mass Effect, but it will still drive you batty as it's slot-limited. Each item takes up a slot, and once you hit the maximum you're going to have to dumping gear. The thing is, you can really accumulate loot in a hurry, and in some of the longer dungeons you're going crazy trying to figure out what to keep and what to ditch because you can't get back to the store. Another technical hint: some merchants sell upgrades that boost your item limit. I didn't know about these till the end, too, and I sort of howled when I found out.

[Vesper]

Amazon is now listing all Dragon Age editions as having Release-Date Delivery. However, my existing order of the PC CE still has its overnight shipping with an estimated 11/5 arrival date. Since you can't actually order it anymore, I'm not sure if they're doing release date delivery for this one as well.

[Sarkus]

Amazon is now listing all Dragon Age editions as having Release-Date Delivery. However, my existing order of the PC CE still has its overnight shipping with an estimated 11/5 arrival date. Since you can't actually order it anymore, I'm not sure if they're doing release date delivery for this one as well.

You can email their customer service and ask, right? Plus my understanding is that release date delivery is only available in some cities right now. I guess they've been test marketing it here in Seattle for awhile with mixed results but recently expanded the cities it is offered in.

[seventimessix]

Amazon is now listing all Dragon Age editions as having Release-Date Delivery. However, my existing order of the PC CE still has its overnight shipping with an estimated 11/5 arrival date. Since you can't actually order it anymore, I'm not sure if they're doing release date delivery for this one as well.

Thanks for the heads up. Getting this game the day it comes out for $41 is pretty unbeatable.

[mkozlows]

In your order, you can go to Change Shipping Speed, and "Release Date Delivery" is an option there.

Thanks for the heads up, or I would have missed that myself.

[Vesper]

In your order, you can go to Change Shipping Speed, and "Release Date Delivery" is an option there.

Thanks for the heads up, or I would have missed that myself.
On the PC-CE version? Mine only shows the normal options of Standard/2 day/1 day.

Update: Amazon customer service didn't help. In fact, they said I could only select Release Date shipping during checkout, which is obviously not true based on what mkozlows is seeing. Hooray for outsourced support!

[mkozlows]

Then I think probably it doesn't count, because the Release Date option showed up for my (resolutely 360, goddammit) Standard Edition.

Also, you don't get the $10 certificate with the Collector's Edition? Man, that sucks.

[Vesper]

Then I think probably it doesn't count, because the Release Date option showed up for my (resolutely 360, goddammit) Standard Edition.

Also, you don't get the $10 certificate with the Collector's Edition? Man, that sucks.
This new development is making me seriously consider cancelling and getting the standard edition. $10 certificate and guaranteed delivery on release date vs. a bunch of trinkets I'll never use and 3 exclusive items.

[Vesper]

Is it sad that I just pre-ordered the non-CE without canceling the CE yet? Since Amazon doesn't charge until they ship, I figure I have 2 weeks to see if they'll add a release date shipping option.

And yes, those 2 days difference in delivery are VERY IMPORTANT.

[Timsfker]

Sigh starting to really look forward to playing this. I have developed an insatiable appetite for any new morsel of information about the game. I think i'll get to pre-making and planning 6 characters (for every origin story), and then when the game comes out take each through their origin and then decide on a main character!

To get biowared up before the game maybe I should get around to playing that copy of mass effect lying around the house. Anyone know if it can be easily finished in two weeks?

[Sarkus]

With little else to do, it's no surprise that fans are creating celebrity likeness characters with the generator and comparing them over on the new social site Bioware created. Most are marginal at best, but a few are actually pretty solid. This is probably my favorite:

http://i35.tinypic.com/2j1ri55.jpg

Not a bad Christopher Walken, IMHO. Somebody pointed out that Walken is a perfect subject because of the somewhat goofy elements of the facial creator. :-)

[Midnight Son]

Needs more cowbell.


Dude, you knew someone was going to say it!

[Stridergg]

I won't go into specifics and details and spoilers, but I have played through Dragon Age, and it's easily BioWare's best RPG. It's also BioWare's biggest RPG. I mean, this thing is HUGE.

Thanks for th eimpressions and the tips, Woolen Horde! And thanks for not posting any spoilers. I like reading previews but previews for DA:O are so spoilerific most of the time that I stopped reading them.

[jellyfish]

Review...
Even though your overall impression is positive, I hear you saying the game is;
too long,
too hard,
too much micro-management,
fiddly annoying inventory management,
level-scaling enemies like in Oblivion that no one liked,
lots of loading screens,
embarrassing writing.

Did I miss anything?

[Ben Sones]

Did I miss anything?

Just this:


it's easily BioWare's best RPG

[BigWeather]

level-scaling enemies like in Oblivion that no one liked,

Could someone elaborate? Is it really Oblivion-like level-scaling or more cleverly done? I understand the difficulties in a wide-open RPG that allows for multiple approaches to tackling the story but level-scaling shouldn't be part of any solution to that problem.

[TurinTur]

Even though your overall impression is positive, I hear you saying the game is;

level-scaling enemies like in Oblivion that no one liked,


The description says it's like Fallout 3, not Oblivion. There is a subtle difference.

[mkozlows]

The description says it's like Fallout 3, not Oblivion. There is a subtle difference.

What's the difference?

(Didn't Mass Effect do level scaling, too? That was pretty unobtrusive, I thought.)

[Murbella]

I trust bioware a hell of a lot more than bethesda when it comes to scaling because they don't have a track record of failing horrendously at it.

Many games have some degree of scaling. The question that matters is whether it is super noticeable (oh wow those bandits i fought yesterday who were wearing loincloths are now in full deadric armor) or behind the scenes (hmm there seems to be more black wolves out in the wilds than hungry wolves today).

[Desslock]

Also, when the game arrives, here's a big technical hint: Gift giving is done by dragging the gift onto the character's avatar in the inventory screen. I thought it was broken or something, and I never figured it out till near the end.

Did you use the rotary dial in inventory? I think that's the easiest way to give gifts.

Inventory limits are a real pain in this game, particularly since the default game comes with no way to store items.

Excellent review, Woolen!

[McCrank]

Man, so torn on this :/

I'm such a trophy/couch/big screen TV hoe , that I really want to get this for the PS3...

Then the old-school hardcore PC gamer in me, really knows that a proper RPG must be played with kb + mouse :(

What to do, what to do...

[Alistair]

Am I remembering Oblivion correctly as having its bandits acquire glowing green weapons -that did seem to draw attention to the issue. I don't know why they didn't have an in-game explanation about the local toughs being replaced by the mercenaries from the south, or just grabbing better weapons in the confusion.

Re Dragon Age though, sounds pretty awesome :) Not really a Bioware fan, but happy to give them the benefit of the doubt. The difficulty level might be a turn-off, but if you can drop the difficulty in game, that's fine by me.

[Stridergg]

Even though your overall impression is positive, I hear you saying the game is;
too long,
too hard,
too much micro-management,


All this can be either good or bad depending on your personal preferences and how you like your RPG's. Me personally, I like long hard battles that require you to use everything that all of your characters have at their disposal. Others would call it too long, too hard and too much micro-management.


fiddly annoying inventory management,

Every game that has loot eventually forces you to choose what to keep and what to drop. Plus, the guy said that he missed the options to increase his inventory, an option that would ease inventory management.

At least there is no playing Tetris with loot like in Diablo and Titan Quest (one item=one inventory slot)


level-scaling enemies like in Oblivion that no one liked

No idea about this one, would like to know more about how it works exactly.


lots of loading screens

I am ok with loading screens as long as they don't take 30+ seconds AND appear every minute or so (like it was in The Witcher when it was originally released, thank God it's been fixed).


embarrassing writing

The guy didn't say anything about writing. He said sex scenes are awkward. Which they always are, in every game. I wonder why game developers insist on having them in their games, they all are awkward and stupid. Luckily, they are also easily avoidable.

As for writing, I heard the writing is quite good actually. Time will tell.

[TurinTur]

What's the difference?

(Didn't Mass Effect do level scaling, too? That was pretty unobtrusive, I thought.)

Oblivion scaling was total and absolute. Everything was weak if you were weak, everything was powerful and godlike if you were powerful and godlike.

Fallout 3 system (and in theory Dragon Age, by the description i read) have a more measured scaling. Dragon Age:
1. It scales not only by your level, but also counting how should be that enemy. If the enemy/zone should be hard, and you are level 10, the enemy will be level 13-14. If the zone is designed to be easy, it will be around level 6-7. If it is designed to have an average difficulty, it should be around level 9-11. So it scales, but you still have normal combat, some harder combats, and some easy zones.
2. The game remembers what level is a already known zone, so it won't scale in the future if you visit it again.
3. Some unique enemies are supposed to be static, they don't scale, for better or worse. I heard about dragons...

I can't remember where the hell i read all this. Penny arcade forums? gaf? the last eurogamer preview?

[Desslock]

Even though your overall impression is positive, I hear you saying the game is;
..
embarrassing writing.

Did I miss anything?

He never said the writing was embarrassing, because it's actually marvelous. I think you misinterpreted his comment about the definitely goofy puppet-sex.

Some people will find it too hard, I suspect, but as he noted, the difficulty can be adjusted at any time. Tough tactical battles is definitely positive feature for many RPG fans, particularly anyone who liked the BG games.

He also confirmed how wrong that Eurogamer article was, however, for suggesting that you could play the game in real-time "on higher difficulty levels" because of the scripting engine - that's just flat out crazy wrong. You do have to put a lot of planning and strategy, and dynamically adjust your tactics, in any of the major encounters.

[Tim James]

I saw in that quick look that you grabbed some ally NPCs to join your party temporarily. Will they scale with you as well? This was a glaring flaw in the Oblivion main quest, but don't remember if it was fixed in Fallout 3.

[extarbags]

All this can be either good or bad depending on your personal preferences and how you like your RPG's. Me personally, I like long hard battles that require you to use everything that all of your characters have at their disposal. Others would call it too long, too hard and too much micro-management.

No, it can't be good. Being too much of anything is never, ever a good thing, by definition.

Jellyfish is right; dude leads off with "best game evar," and then proceeds to list a bunch of specifics about the game, every one of which is negative.

[Stridergg]

No, it can't be good. Being too much of anything is never, ever a good thing, by definition.

Jellyfish is right; dude leads off with "best game evar," and then proceeds to list a bunch of specifics about the game, every one of which is negative.

The point is that "too much" is very relative. What's "too much" for you could be "just fine" for me.

I heard some guy complaining that the game has too much reading, obviously saying that it's "never, ever a good thing" is stupid. Like they say in Arma 2 threads, go play your COD4. :) Joking. :)

[TurinTur]

No, it can't be good. Being too much of anything is never, ever a good thing, by definition.

Jellyfish is right; dude leads off with "best game evar," and then proceeds to list a bunch of specifics about the game, every one of which is negative.

That's something i also do it. When i speak about a game, i write much much more of the bad points than the good points, even if the game is good. Perhaps it's because i am a negative person (¿??), or perhaps it's because i find easy to explain why a game is good with only a few sentences, but i like to clearly and logically (and with lots of words) explain why decision A, B and C from the game are bad.

[Stridergg]

And one more exercise in how everything is relative


Jellyfish is right; dude leads off with "best game evar," and then proceeds to list a bunch of specifics about the game, every one of which is negative.

Jellyfish is wrong; dude leads with "best game evar" and then proceeds with "here are a few minor annoyances that I didn't enjoy". :)

[Chris Nahr]

Inventory limits are a real pain in this game, particularly since the default game comes with no way to store items.

Wait, so the item chest you get in the $7 DLC is really the only one that you'll get anywhere? I though that was an additional chest just for the new area so you wouldn't have to track back to your main camp.

[extarbags]

I heard some guy complaining that the game has too much reading, obviously saying that it's "never, ever a good thing" is stupid.

No, listen: too much reading is never, ever a good thing. Now, you might disagree with that guy's assessment that the game has too much reading in the first place; for you, it might be just enough reading, or not enough reading. But what you can't reasonably say is that you agree that there's too much reading, but that that's a good thing in your eyes, because you like it when there's too much reading.

Any time there's too much of something, it's a bad thing. That's what the phrase "too much" means.

[jellyfish]

...dude leads with "best game evar" and then proceeds with "here are a few minor annoyances that I didn't enjoy".
They just sound like more than minor annoyances to me.

[mkozlows]

No, listen: too much reading is never, ever a good thing. Now, you might disagree with that guy's assessment that the game has too much reading in the first place; for you, it might be just enough reading, or not enough reading. But what you can't reasonably say is that you agree that there's too much reading, but that that's a good thing in your eyes, because you like it when there's too much reading.

Right, everyone gets that -- but the point is that the phrase "too much reading" is nonsensical. There has never been an RPG made that had too much reading, though there've been a ton that had too little.

[Murbella]

No, it can't be good. Being too much of anything is never, ever a good thing, by definition.

Jellyfish is right; dude leads off with "best game evar," and then proceeds to list a bunch of specifics about the game, every one of which is negative.
It is a good thing that short summary list was a gross generalization of the entire game when the post in question just talked about specific things. It is almost like Jellyfish specifically misquoted someone in order to make their review of the game sound negative.

too long,


Admittedly, there's a dungeon or two that are really grindy and feel like they're lengthy for legnthy's sake (seriously, they could have been chopped in half and they'd still be a bit too big), but otherwise the rest of the game just dazzles.Is there really not a game out there with a section you think is too long? How about halo with the notorious library levels? In any event, saying one specific section is possibly too long is not the same as saying the whole game is.

too hard,


I'm hoping BioWare has tweaked the difficulty since I played, because at default this was a really brutal game at certain points
Is this really a bad thing? Demon's souls, the acclaimed best game on the ps3 often is the target of the same thoughts on difficulty. A hard game is not a bad thing unless it is hard to such a degree that it frustrates people, like a contra game. Not to mention the solution here was to turn the game to easy.

too much micro-management,


Even then, many of the boss battles were incredibly micro-heavy. I had to constantly pause the action to order guys to drink healing potions or for the mages to bail someone out, else they're dead.
This is what games that focus on pause and give orders are about. I also see it as a statement to fans of BG that were questioning a previous review saying you didn't have to pause at all.

fiddly annoying inventory management,

Speaking of which, inventory is better than Mass Effect, but it will still drive you batty as it's slot-limited. Each item takes up a slot, and once you hit the maximum you're going to have to dumping gear. The thing is, you can really accumulate loot in a hurry, and in some of the longer dungeons you're going crazy trying to figure out what to keep and what to ditch because you can't get back to the store.Most games have inventory limited by some factor. This does not make it "fiddly annoying."

level-scaling enemies like in Oblivion that no one liked,

In fact, though it's supposed to scale with you since you can go through the story in different ways, it got so tough that about halfway through I adjusted the difficulty down to easy.Not much is said on this other than it is supposed to scale. By the sounds of it though things were still hard so the scaling couldn't have been oblivion style.

lots of loading screens,

There are a gazillion loading screens that you'll encounter, and on the PC the wait isn't too bad, but I shudder at the thought of all those loads on a 360 or PS3.The game has been stated to be very long, with many different areas. In games like this you hit a loading screen when changing areas. Loading was stated as "isn't too bad." I'd imagine the load screens generally aren't super frequent as well if the areas are anything like bg or nwn.

embarrassing writing.

And for sex scenes are uncomfortable. They're just.... awkward.Nice job saying it has embarrassing writing from this. Obviously it is much less embarrassing to go see a prostitute in gta and then kill her to get your money back after you paid her.

[TurinTur]

No, it can't be good. Being too much of anything is never, ever a good thing, by definition.

Jellyfish is right; dude leads off with "best game evar," and then proceeds to list a bunch of specifics about the game, every one of which is negative.


Technically, he said "best Bioware game evar", not "best game evar", so of course the game can have flaws and still be the best Bioware game (because i am not a fan of past Bioware games :P).

[Angie Gallant]

And it's not like "sex scenes are awkward" isn't something that we all realized the moment they said there would be sex scenes. Or saw the trailers.

[Joe M.]

I must have missed something in Woolen's post. He goes from "their best RPG ever" to listing a couple minor issues to warning us about some mistakes he made himself. I thought it was a good informative post, not some negative screed.

[Ben Sones]

Yeah. The real question is whether or not the sex scenes are frequent or mandatory. If they are like the sex scenes in Mass Effect (i.e. rare and optional), then I don't really care how awkward they are.

[extarbags]

Right, everyone gets that

Stridergg did not appear to get that.


but the point is that the phrase "too much reading" is nonsensical. There has never been an RPG made that had too much reading, though there've been a ton that had too little.

Well, that's your opinion, and I have to say that it strikes me as a bizarre one. I know I've played dozens or scores of RPGs that have bored me to tears with interminable walls of text. In any case, I hardly think it's nonsensical to even suggest that that might be a valid criticism.

[mkozlows]

Well, that's your opinion, and I have to say that it strikes me as a bizarre one. I know I've played dozens or scores of RPGs that have bored me to tears with interminable walls of text. In any case, I hardly think it's nonsensical to even suggest that that might be a valid criticism.

Right, and that's the sort of thing reviewers often say about games that have a reasonable amount of text, because they're insane. But they're always, always wrong, and it has never, ever been a valid criticism.

[Tim James]

I wonder if my Amazon super saver shipping means someone will have modded some improvements into the inventory system by the time I get it. I don't mind that metagame, but it's a "once more into the breach" type of thing that might be nicer if I didn't have to bother with it.

Will we be seeing week one mods or is it one of those games where no one can do anything without some time in the SDK? (Haven't followed the mod scene in 10 years so I don't know the process anymore.)

[Gordon Cameron]

Right, and that's the sort of thing reviewers often say about games that have a reasonable amount of text, because they're insane. But they're always, always wrong, and it has never, ever been a valid criticism.

You seem fond of just sort of declaring things and then sitting back satisfied that your comment can never, ever, possibly, for all time, be disputed with any validity.

Of course it's possible for an RPG to have too much reading. It's possible for a novel to have too much reading (that is what editors are for).

An RPG is a videogame, and videogames are to be played. Text serves its purpose in servicing the story, but it must be in good proportion just as much as anything else.

And anyone who disagrees with me is always absolutely completely wrong from now until the heat-death of the universe, because I doubleplus say so and spit to seal it.

[sam16]

For the level scaling, there was a post on the forums from the lead designer:


Origins uses a system which I call "Persistent Scaling."

Essentially, the game has the capability to scale around your level and adjust encounters, but it does not do so in a way that means the challenge level never changes. Some areas are harder, even at the lower end, and others are a bit on the easier side.

Better, the game remembers when you visit places, so if you are having trouble with a particular encounter, you CAN leave, tackle a few side quests and come back tougher and know that the game won't have suddenly jumped the difficulty up on you to match. Hence "persistent."

It's a very refined system. Some creatures are handled specifically, even. *cough*dragon*cough*

All the brainchild of the DA systems guys, who are, I believe, Space Wizards in disguise, given the level of awesome they deploy on a daily basis.
http://www.dragonagecentral.com/single/1255926780

So, basically Fallout 3's system.

[extarbags]

Right, and that's the sort of thing reviewers often say about games that have a reasonable amount of text, because they're insane. But they're always, always wrong, and it has never, ever been a valid criticism.

Sorry, what are you talking about? You've played every RPG ever made? There's no amount of text that could be too much? If a game made you read a two thousand word summary of every random combat encounter, would it be nonsensical to criticize that game for having too much reading?

[Tim James]

So, basically Fallout 3's system.I guess that is the post Naeblis remembers, but still nothing about allies. Did Fallout 3 have any static challenge enemies? I didn't explore much so I may have missed them.

[Warning]

Man, so torn on this :/

I'm such a trophy/couch/big screen TV hoe , that I really want to get this for the PS3...

Then the old-school hardcore PC gamer in me, really knows that a proper RPG must be played with kb + mouse :(

What to do, what to do...
Get the PC version and play it with a gamepad.

Problem solved.

[jellyfish]

And anyone who disagrees with me is always absolutely completely wrong from now until the heat-death of the universe.
There is actually some scientific debate about whether the ultimate fate of the Universe is to end in a heat-death as you call it, or a big-freeze. There are also some other possible outcomes as well...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_fate_of_the_universe#Big_Freeze_or_Heat_d eath

[jellyfish]

For the level scaling, there was a post on the forums from the lead designer:
http://www.dragonagecentral.com/single/1255926780

Origins uses a system which I call "Persistent Scaling."
...Better, the game remembers when you visit places, so if you are having trouble with a particular encounter, you CAN leave, tackle a few side quests and come back tougher and know that the game won't have suddenly jumped the difficulty up on you to match. Hence "persistent."

Sounds like a good way to game this system is to visit as many areas as you can while you are still level 1.

[Staff Sergeant]

Sounds like a good way to game this system is to visit as many areas as you can while you are still level 1.

Smells like vanilla Oblivion to me.

[Woolen Horde]

Did you use the rotary dial in inventory? I think that's the easiest way to give gifts.

Inventory limits are a real pain in this game, particularly since the default game comes with no way to store items.

Excellent review, Woolen!

The rotary dial never worked for me; the gift box was always greyed out. Finally, on a whim I decided to drag gifts onto character portraits.

[skyride]

Get the PC version and play it with a gamepad.

Problem solved.

How does that solve the bigscreen/couch problem? And before you go there, most people don't have the option to hook up their PC in the living room or wherever they have the big screen.

[Stridergg]

Now, you might disagree with that guy's assessment that the game has too much reading in the first place; for you, it might be just enough reading, or not enough reading.

There see, you re-phrased what I was saying all along ("The point is that "too much" is very relative. What's "too much" for you could be "just fine" for me."). Now we can say that we agree on something and close this argument. :)

[Tim James]

How does that solve the bigscreen/couch problem? And before you go there, most people don't have the option to hook up their PC in the living room or wherever they have the big screen.I thought my HTPC would finally get me into the living room but I'm still a hermit in the den. :(

[TurinTur]

How does that solve the bigscreen/couch problem? And before you go there, most people don't have the option to hook up their PC in the living room or wherever they have the big screen.

Big screen : a 22" or 24" monitor is as big as a 45" tv screen for the eye (or more), as you are closer to the screen in a computer than in the couch. Hell, my 20" Dell "fills" my eyesight when i play, more than my 42" LG tv.

Couch : Do you have a metallic chair for your computer or what? I do have a very comforting deluxe armchair. It may be still not as good as laying in the couch, but it's pretty good.

[Dan_Theman]

Smells like vanilla Oblivion to me.
Eh, seems a bit better. I thought Oblivion boosted the threat range everywhere to match your current level, as opposed to remembering where you started at when you first visited. This makes a bit more sense when considering the coming "blight" - the longer you take to visit someplace, the tougher the fight will be. On the other hand, if you strike early on then you can catch the enemy in a weakened state before they can get their full defenses up (that's how I'd rationalize it in my mind, anyway). The benefit would ostensibly be maintaining challenges suitable for every level and style of play, and people can back out and grind a bit if their first foray into an area is too tough - it seems like it would serve both the "care bear" and the hardcore player.

[Stridergg]

Sounds like a good way to game this system is to visit as many areas as you can while you are still level 1.

I think they prevent this by limiting where you can go at level 1. Gateway monsters, quests, etc. Hence, the "cough cough, dragon" part.

[Eightball]

Sounds like a good way to game this system is to visit as many areas as you can while you are still level 1.

I was wondering the same thing, but I have no doubts they put in exp by level...so if you lock everything into a low-level adventure, meaning low level monsters, you're missing a valuable source of experience to raise your character. And since some monsters are level locked (dragon), you're fucked.

[Tim James]

You don't have to spend that much effort to game the system, just buy the DLC that gives you the wand of winning!

[Woolen Horde]

To clarify; my issue with the sex is that it's extremely sophomoric. It's almost like soft porn, but it's like PG-13 soft porn. Awkward.

You want the stuff I love?

The Origin stories are great. You don't put them in and just have a single Origin story and this is still BioWare's biggest and best RPG. The Origin stories and the flexibility they provide is just a metric ton of crazy awesome goodness on top of the incredible moist and tasty cake.

I don't to get into spoilers, but there are some brilliant quests and level design. I especially loved the mage tower. You'll find out why. And a lot of the side quests you can fail, and that's all right. In fact, getting the quests complete will often seriously piss off a party NPC because they view it as a totally unnecessary detour.... and they're right! You can feel like a dick either way by letting some plot character down or hacking off half of your team. That's something I've never seen before.

The characters and the interplay between them is unparalleled. We all know how much the elevators sucked in Mass Effect, but the great thing about them was the hilarious banter as the NPCs poked and prodded each other. Well, this entire game is essentially an elevator (bad analogy), because the banter is everywhere. And as you uncover more and more about an NPC, the other NPCs almost can't wait to verbally pounce on them about the latest revelation. Then consider how many NPCs there are, and how many different party configurations you can bring along, and my mind is officially blown. Even the mutant war dog (who is also totally awesome) is a hoot, and he can't speak any words! You'll just want to replay the game over and over again with different party combination to hear what they'll say. And because the conversations progress as you go over the course of the 50+ hour game, there's not a lot of repeating going on. I mean, seriously, mind blown.

I could go on, but I hope you get my point.

As to the PC/console thing. The only time I saw the 360 version was at E3, but based on my general experience with PC/console multiplatform games, PC looks way more better, period. The console textures are totally washed out due to loading/memory considerations. If you have a halfway decent PC, go that route.

[TurinTur]

Hey Woolen, are you a writer for a magazine or site? I just want to know which is your review, when it comes.

[BleedTheFreak]

To clarify; my issue with the sex is that it's extremely sophomoric. This almost like soft porn, but it's like PG-13 soft porn. Awkward.

You want the stuff I love?

The Origin stories are great. You don't put them in and just have a single Origin story and this is still BioWare's biggest and best RPG. The Origin stories and the flexibility they provide is just a metric ton of crazy awesome goodness on top of the incredible moist and tasty cake.

I don't to get into spoilers, but there are some brilliant quests and level design. I especially loved the mage tower. You'll find out why. And a lot of the side quests you can fail, and that's all right. In fact, getting the quests complete will often seriously piss off an NPC because they view it as a totally unnecessary detour.... and they're right! You can feel like a dick either way by letting some plot character down or hacking off half of your team. That's something I've never seen before.

The characters and the interplay between them is unparalleled. We all know how much the elevators sucked in Mass Effect, but the great thing about them was the hilarious banter as the NPCs poked and prodded each other. Well, this entire game is essentially an elevator (bad analogy), because the banter never stops. And as you uncover more and more about an NPC, the other NPCs almost can't wait to verbally pounce on them about the latest revelation. Then consider how many NPCs there are, and how many different party configurations you can bring along, and my mind is officially blown. Even the mutant war dog (who is also totally awesome) is a hoot, and he can't speak any words! You'll just want to replay the game over and over again with different party combination to hear what they'll say. And because the conversations progress as you go over the course of the 50+ hour game, there's not a lot of repeating going on. I mean, seriously, mind blown.

I could go on, but I hope you get my point.

As to the PC/console thing. The only time I saw the 360 version was at E3, but based on my general experience with PC/console multiplatform games, PC looks a ton better, hand's down. The console textures are totally washed out due to loading/memory considerations. If you have a halfway decent PC, go that route.


Did I miss your actual review, or is it just posts in this thread?

[Tim James]

The iterations of NPC banter sounds like something that would take a long time with less immediate results to show for it, similar to developing a dynamic campaign in a new combat flight sim. Good to hear BioWare went the extra mile on stuff like that.

[Stridergg]

Well, this entire game is essentially an elevator (bad analogy), because the banter is everywhere.

Now *some* people will say..

- too much blanter
- too much elevator

:)

[Dave Weinstein]

Right. Pre-ordered from Impulse.

Now for that waiting thing.

I'm not good at that part.

[Ben Sones]

Now *some* people will say..

- too much blanter
- too much elevator

:)

Also:

- Lots of unnecessary quests
- War dog can't speak
- Game is like cake, but pie is superior

[rrmorton]

LOL.

Yeah, based on the way Woolen Horde's post was dissected and debated all morning, I'd say the hordes are eager for this game to come out. Maybe even frothing and champing at the bit.

[ravenight]

the 2200-post thread prior to release didn't tip you off?

[Tyrion]

Woolen Horde, what are the big dungeons like? Do they consist of wading through lots of similar enemies, or are they more like the Baldur's Gate 2 dungeons, with a mix of story, traps, puzzles, and unique combats?

[Matt Perkins]

So are there any good places (i.e. - quick delivery) left to order the CE from?

[Dave Weinstein]

I ordered the digital CE from Impulse. One presumes delivery will be reasonably fast.

[Desslock]

The rotary dial never worked for me; the gift box was always greyed out. Finally, on a whim I decided to drag gifts onto character portraits.

If it was greyed out, you probably had your own character up - naturally, you can't gift to yourself. You can use the arrows on the character screen to scroll to the other characters, and then use the rotary dial to gift anything you want in the party inventory -- that's probably the easiest way.

It also gives you a way to "game" the influence system -- since characters like particular gifts a lot more than others -- you can find out generally through getting to know them if you've advanced their dialogues sufficiently. But you can also learn by trial/error - save the game first, then give every gift in your inventory to a character to see if there are any hidden "gems" for that character - reload/do the same thing for the other characters. I hate lame "gaming" the system like that, but on the other hand, I hated not getting access to all the dialogue options more. I'm not really a fan of the influence system in KOTOR/NWN2 and DA, although it's definitely better implemented here than in any previous game.

[Desslock]

Smells like vanilla Oblivion to me.

It doesn't feel like Oblivion, and that's also not possible, since aside from the settlements, areas are locked until you get a related quest.

[Desslock]

Also:

- Lots of unnecessary quests
- War dog can't speak

Heh, the war dog will also start whining almost immediately if stop to have an extended conversation with an NPC. It's a dog of action.

There actually aren't that many ancillary quests, and to be honest the ones that exist actually seem somewhat distasteful, because the threat posed by the main plot has been made so clear. It seems weird to detour to stop some pickpockets or make some potions for someone when a horde is bearing down on you.

That's obviously an issue all RPGs face, but you're so integrated with the main plot in DA that it really seems like you're shirking your responsibilities, unlike for example in Oblivion -- although there's far more latitude in Oblivion to "wander the Earth" and do whatever you want, ignoring the main threat, in that game it also seems like you're just "joe schmoe", and that there's governments, soldiers, etc. who may be more suitable to address that threat. It's not necessarily your business. That's not the case in Dragon Age, since your role is fundamental and all would be lost without you, making little ancillary chores seem like far less realistic options.

But that's really a strength of the game, because its plot also really draws you in, and as Woolen indicated, you're also suitably scolded for detouring, which may be an RPG first.

Re: PC/console - last reiteration - this is definitely a PC game, the PC version has significant advantages, so you should get the PC version unless you have a PC that's more than a few years old or you're just adverse to playing games in front of your computer.

[Desslock]

Woolen Horde, what are the big dungeons like? Do they consist of wading through lots of similar enemies, or are they more like the Baldur's Gate 2 dungeons, with a mix of story, traps, puzzles, and unique combats?

Almost all the battles in the dungeons feel like action set-pieces and pose unique tactical challenges, instead of being generic battles with substantially similar foes. Aside from the writing, it's Dragon Age's best strength.

[Kevin Grey]

There actually aren't that many ancillary quests, and to be honest the ones that exist actually seem somewhat distasteful, because the threat posed by the main plot has been made so clear. It seems weird to detour to stop some pickpockets or make some potions for someone when a horde is bearing down on you.


Does that mean that there are lots of sidequests that are related to the main plot or is the game just light on sidequests overall? Because if it's the former then that's pretty awesome.

[Desslock]

Does that mean that there are lots of sidequests that are related to the main plot or is the game just light on sidequests overall? Because if it's the former then that's pretty awesome.

Yes, many sidequests arise through the main plot - you have a specific objective in that area, and in the course of exploring, you pick up a few ancillary goals -- i.e., you go to visit the Mages to enlist some help, and realize that you need to help them with a few problems of their own first.

But there are also "job board" quests, which are essentially completely ancillary, although they reflect the developing state of the world (i.e. go and see what happened to this merchant caravan, and you see evidence of an enemy army on the march). In the main city (and the few towns) you'll also get some purely ancillary stuff -- i.e. rob this warehouse, help this boy - that's the stuff that often seems misplaced - if you're strictly roleplaying a character I'm not sure you could rationally justify those diversions.

The companions also have their own quests, and they are generally cool, or at least open up some interesting character insights.

[Kevin Grey]

That sounds great. I've long thought that Bioware used up all of their great sidequest material in BG2 but it sounds like they are much improved this time out.

[McCrank]

Desslock, for someone who's played Baldurs Gate series, Fallout, etc, is this worth a purchase, is there something to see here?

-Chris

[Rock8man]

Desslock, for someone who's played Baldurs Gate series, Fallout, etc, is this worth a purchase, is there something to see here?

-Chris

Oh great. As if Desslock hasn't done enough gushing already to make me almost cave in. Why not throw him this softball question?

I've got a better one Desslock: For those looking for excuses not to get the game, can you help a brother out and point out all the flaws? *grin*.

[TurinTur]

Desslock, for someone who's played Baldurs Gate series, Fallout, etc, is this worth a purchase, is there something to see here?

-Chris

Uhh.. he already praised one and another time, comparing it to the "good old rpgs". So i suppose he will say "yes, it is worth the purchase".

[Tim James]

Desslock, for someone who's played Baldurs Gate series, Fallout, etc, is this worth a purchase, is there something to see here?This shit is in 3D. Don't bother.

[seventimessix]

But that's really a strength of the game, because its plot also really draws you in, and as Woolen indicated, you're also suitably scolded for detouring, which may be an RPG first.


Can you please explain this a bit more. Is it just dialog that changes or are you actually penalized for not proceeding directly to your main objective?

[Ninyu]

Could you even bother to read the thread? Seriously?

[Desslock]

Can you please explain this a bit more. Is it just dialog that changes or are you actually penalized for not proceeding directly to your main objective?

It's not that meaningful a penalty, but you'll lose status/influence with companion, which could have consequences if you don't otherwise rectify that swing.

[Desslock]

Desslock, for someone who's played Baldurs Gate series, Fallout, etc, is this worth a purchase, is there something to see here?

It's certainly my favorite BioWare RPG since BG2 and I recommend it. I can understand some people preferring KOTOR as a "game", but DA is certainly a much better RPG, as it has far more roleplaying depth/choices/nuances.

Potential negatives for old school RPG fans -- none, really. I guess the companion-sex, which looks incredibly goofy and the whole mini-game of advancing the romances feels contrived - but I liked the additional dialogue that occurs if you have a romance (or two). The somewhat fetishistic use of blood splattering.

There is a ton of context-specific dialogue in this game - the companions are constantly blathering new stuff. It is far more dialogue-heavy (at least if you want to get as much as you can out of everyone you meet) than the BG games. But I suspect the disparate playthrough times being thrown around are evidence that you can carve a lot of time off by focusing less on that stuff.

BG fans will certainly like the combat.

If you only like open-ended, virtual world-style of RPGs, like Oblivion, Fallout 3, Gothic, Risen, etc., then DA is not that type of game either. But it's very similar in design to BG2 (more than BG1), but also has the feel of recent BioWare games because of the engine/default graphical perspective/companion influence system, etc.

[McCrank]

Firstly, love to all my haters :)

Secondly, thanks for the reply Desslock, think you've solidified my Steam purchase of this.

-Chris

[Mordrak]

Speaking of which, inventory is better than Mass Effect, but it will still drive you batty as it's slot-limited. Each item takes up a slot, and once you hit the maximum you're going to have to dumping gear. The thing is, you can really accumulate loot in a hurry, and in some of the longer dungeons you're going crazy trying to figure out what to keep and what to ditch because you can't get back to the store. Another technical hint: some merchants sell upgrades that boost your item limit. I didn't know about these till the end, too, and I sort of howled when I found out.

More RPGs need to allow you to buy a cart and park it at the front of a dungeon, where you can surface to dump your loot. I actually limited inventories though, call me crazy.

[mkozlows]

Sorry, what are you talking about? You've played every RPG ever made? There's no amount of text that could be too much? If a game made you read a two thousand word summary of every random combat encounter, would it be nonsensical to criticize that game for having too much reading?

Let me try this again: I like text-heavy games a lot, and any review that says "too much text to read" needs to be translated from what a typical reviewer likes to what I like, and the output of that translation is invariably "a satisfying amount of text to read."

I have never seen a case where there actually was too much talking or too much text in an RPG for my tastes. And yes, it is mathematically possible for such a game to exist, some kind of Wikipedia Quest, but I don't imagine it ever will.

So if someone says that Dragon Age has too much talking (as the Eurogamer preview did), I consider that a positive comment even if it's technically phrased as a negative.

[Tim James]

More RPGs need to allow you to buy a cart and park it at the front of a dungeon, where you can surface to dump your loot.At that point we'd need RPGs that let you steal adventurer carts.

[mkozlows]

Okay, so the known downsides of the 360 version are:

1. No isometric view
2. Lower-res textures
3. No modding

I'm pretty okay with those things, if there are no other major problems. Any UI weirdness to the 360 version? Unbearable loading screens? Bugginess?

[unbongwah]

More RPGs need to allow you to buy a cart and park it at the front of a dungeon, where you can surface to dump your loot.
Didn't Dungeon Siege make a big deal out of how you could buy a donkey to haul your crap? I mean, he was in the movie (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/2/25/) and everything! Packmules - now there's an idea that's waiting for the right time to break out!

Me, I prefer RPGs which don't have a lot of trash loot in the first place. Garbage collection is for janitors and compilers, not heroes.

I like text-heavy games a lot, and any review that says "too much text to read" needs to be translated from what a typical reviewer likes to what I like, and the output of that translation is invariably "a satisfying amount of text to read."
Doesn't that depend on how well-written the text is? For every JK Rowling there's a hundred Stephanie Meyers.