Dragon Age Countdown... [Archive] - Page 2

Mordrak

07-12-2008, 01:03 PM

JE was an innovative concept combining beat em ups with a RPG (which also failed)...

Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, Tobal No. 1 spring to mind.

and ME combined a FPS with a RPG and was fairly successful.

Uhh, Deus Ex? Granted, I consider the conversation in ME evolutionary, but not quite revolutionary.

Sure. BG/BG2 innovated talkative NPCs, romances, and reinvigorated the CRPG genre for years to come

I do agree here. For me at least, it's the first real time party based RPG I played. It felt like a squad based RTS the first time I played it. Someone will probably be able to point to an early example, but I can't think of one. The Ultimas (Pre 8) weren't strictly real time as far as I can remember, things only moved when you did.

TurinTur

07-12-2008, 01:08 PM

If that's the same one they mentioned on the official boards, it's just a variation of the same thing shown last night and available now. It just a has a few minor variations.

Cool then. /sarcasm

/Damn Bioware

:|

Equis

07-12-2008, 01:15 PM

KOTOR wasn't particularly innovative, but it sure did rock.

I thought marrying the D20 system to Star Wars and bringing the gameplay into a third person exploratory perspective was a stroke of brilliance in an era where RPGs were largely thought to be best rendered in isometric 3D.

Actually, I think apart from BGII, KOTOR was the most innovative of titles they had.

Sarkus

07-12-2008, 01:28 PM

I thought marrying the D20 system to Star Wars and bringing the gameplay into a third person exploratory perspective was a stroke of brilliance in an era where RPGs were largely thought to be best rendered in isometric 3D.

Actually, I think apart from BGII, KOTOR was the most innovative of titles they had.

I agree. JE and ME are basically just evolutions of the technical changes they introduced in KOTOR. Down to the "two companions at a time while the rest hang out somewhere else" mechanic and the "companions only open up to you if you take them with you a lot" mechanic.

One thing that intrigues me about Dragon Age is the feature that allows you to pull back to a more traditional isometric view for battles if you want. I'm also really praying they change up the "two companions" thing.

Equis

07-12-2008, 01:33 PM

Down to the "two companions at a time while the rest hang out somewhere else" mechanic.

That's actually a JRPG convention that's been around for years. Still, at least KOTOR and the subsequent games had a plausible story reason for it. JRPGS rarely had plausible story reasons for anything.

Jasper Phillips

07-12-2008, 01:56 PM

I didn't even make it to the end of the trailer. It could have been a trailer from just about any company in the world making a fantasy-themed game of some sort. It lacked any trace of originality, and anything to distinguish Bioware's IP apart from the logo at the end (presumably!).
I just don't get it. I saw the Diablo 3 trailer too; it was nice because it was longer and had actual gameplay, but it was every inch as generic -- and everyone soiled their pants over it. Or to go back a bit further, Oblivion's ultra generic pastiche.

So, yah, as Angie said, it was indeed a generic trailer. I got pretty much nothing out of it, but then again I can't remember the last non-gameplay trailer I got anything out of.

peacedog

07-12-2008, 02:51 PM

The Ultimas (Pre 8) weren't strictly real time as far as I can remember, things only moved when you did.

Ultima 7 had real time combat. It was pretty awful.

Also, Moebius and Windwalker did RPG beatem up before everyone. Moebius also gave out killer Haiku's when you leveled, a concept we sorely need to return to gaming.

Robert Sharp

07-12-2008, 02:58 PM

The Diablo3 trailer had gameplay, Jasper. You could tell some things about the game. I can't tell anything about Dragon Age from this.

BleedTheFreak

07-12-2008, 03:02 PM

One thing that intrigues me about Dragon Age is the feature that allows you to pull back to a more traditional isometric view for battles if you want. I'm also really praying they change up the "two companions" thing.

Wha!? That sounds freaking awesome! I get my BG/BG2 AND my KOTOR all at once!? Is this confirmed?

Bill Dungsroman

07-12-2008, 03:06 PM

Well, Draiken could be comparing this trailer to Mass Effects trailer, which is fair in my opinion.

No offense meant to you personally Joe, but who fucking cares about anything that fucking dumb lump of useless carbon Draikin thinks, says, or does? I hope he dies choking on a deep-fried pepperoni stick. I'm going to buy Fallout 3 on day one, name my character Draikin, and figure out how to mod in pink panties and a ballerina dress and send him on The Fruitiest Post-Apocalyptic Adventure of All Time, take a million screenshots and spam every thread he posts in with them. Oooooo, you guys are going to be able to smell my Fallout Fanboi Farts for miles.

Hans Lauring

07-12-2008, 03:28 PM

Could you guys please stop derailing this thread with talk about some Dragongame?

I want to hear Angie telling me about bad books.

ydejin

07-12-2008, 03:29 PM

The Diablo3 trailer had gameplay, Jasper. You could tell some things about the game. I can't tell anything about Dragon Age from this.
That's a bit of an understatement Robert. Blizzard released a frickin' 20 minute long demo video showing actual action in game along with commentary! Wasn't the demo video basically released at the same time as whatever trailer Jasper is referring to? I don't see how anyone could watch the D3 demo video and claim it looked generic.

tork

07-12-2008, 03:46 PM

Yep and it doesn't count for the same reason as NOLF. My game, my rules. Bitches.

Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain, and its sequel, Blood Omen 2: Legacy of Kain.

Joe M.

07-12-2008, 04:40 PM

No offense meant to you personally Joe

I see there's some history here I'm missing as a casual forum-lurker.

Honestly the trailer told me nothing about the game except there's guys in armor and some badass monster-looking dudes.

Having just looked up some screenshots, it looks like DA:O will have gameplay similar to ME. I'm sold if they can pull off the same sort of interactive movie atmosphere with decisions that impact the storyline (which is kind of requisite for any RPG).

Jasper Phillips

07-12-2008, 07:42 PM

That's a bit of an understatement Robert. Blizzard released a frickin' 20 minute long demo video showing actual action in game along with commentary! Wasn't the demo video basically released at the same time as whatever trailer Jasper is referring to? I don't see how anyone could watch the D3 demo video and claim it looked generic.
Oh? What did you learn about the Diablo setting beyond vaguely European guys beating up monsters, with some magic mixed in?

Clearly, the Diablo 3 clip was more interesting, but the game world shown was every bit as generic as Diablo has always been -- which is what many of you guys seem to be blasting Dragon Age for. Why not bash Diablo for being generic too? I mean, it's not like you've played either of these games.

Damien Neil

07-12-2008, 07:58 PM

As you said: "As generic as Diablo has always been."

Diablo's appeal has nothing to do with its setting. It's a roguelike built around loot and character builds; the setting is almost irrelevant.

Dragon Age, in contrast, is a Bioware RPG, which means that we can expect it to be plot-heavy and talky. In that context, setting matters.

ydejin

07-12-2008, 08:00 PM

Oh? What did you learn about the Diablo setting beyond vaguely European guys beating up monsters, with some magic mixed in?

Clearly, the Diablo 3 clip was more interesting, but the game world shown was every bit as generic as Diablo has always been -- which is what many of you guys seem to be blasting Dragon Age for. Why not bash Diablo for being generic too? I mean, it's not like you've played either of these games.
You think the Witch Doctor is a vaguely European guy, what are you nuts?

I don't find the Diablo World generic. I've always associated Diablo with being a bit weird and a little non-traditional. As a traditionalist, I don't view those as pluses (I prefer Titan Quest's world myself and would love for someone to do King Arthur/Camelot without any modern irony added in). There's a lot that makes Diablo non-generic, non-LotR, non-Camelot, non-Standard High Fantasy. Consider for example those weird creatures shown that get fat and explode into strange eels. That's the sort of Diablo stuff I'm not particularly fond of, but it's certainly not generic. They've got some other weird stuff in the gameplay. The Wall of Zombies is an example of the kind of twisted stuff I've come to expect from Diablo. No real gameplay difference between a Wall of Zombies and a Wall of Thorns, but using Zombies is just more Diablo-esque.

Compare the Diablo 3 gameplay to the Dragon Age trailer. The Dragon Age trailer looks like someone just tried to replicate the LotR movies. Diablo 3's world is just the sort of twisted world I've come to expect from Diablo (for better or worse).

Bill Dungsroman

07-13-2008, 02:27 AM

Equisilus

07-13-2008, 03:39 AM

I hope that DA:O reverses a trend that I've come to expect from Bio games in terms of replay value. KotOR: 2 plays. JEPC: one play. MEPC: 1.5 plays. The BG games and NWN I replayed in the double digits. The problem with the newer games is that I don't find there to be enough character development paths nor enough emphasis on changing equipment for the character/party. This makes the building of the character (what I would mark as the most important part of any type of RPG) a very light element in Bio's recent games. It doesn't make the game a bad one (KotOR and MEPC were great games on their own), but I get tired of them quick.

I'm really waiting for something in the way of info that will show DA is different than their recent example. If it hearkens back to the BG/NWN style of character development (i.e. D&D) then I'll be happy. It's one of the reasons I can be far more excited about D3 and similar games; I know there will be loads of replay.

Charles

07-13-2008, 09:28 AM

FOR FERALDAN!

*giggle*

Angie Gallant

07-13-2008, 09:29 AM

If they keep releasing useless trailers like this, I might as well rehijack this thread to being about horrible novels again. (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/36127.html)

Again, we learn nothing other than they know how to make fire.

nabeel

07-13-2008, 09:29 AM

"Second" trailer is up. (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/36128.html)

Charles

07-13-2008, 09:40 AM

Dogs! Dogs with bones painted on them! SCARY!

PS, The tower explodes before the projectile hits it... towerofferaldanwasaninsidejob.com

Bill Dungsroman

07-13-2008, 09:42 AM

FOR FERALDAN!

*giggle*

Would it have killed the guy to put a little more feeling into it?

Angie Gallant

07-13-2008, 09:45 AM

The Feraldan Administration needed the tower to fall to justify their illegal war against the blight, and they didn't care how many of their own citizens died to do it. There were vials of greek fire on the supports and they blew before the flaming rock hit the tower!

Andrew Mayer

07-13-2008, 10:02 AM

Wow. This is turning into a marketing disaster. Clearly the fruits of the EA purchase are already ripening.

JetLagger

07-13-2008, 10:05 AM

I'm really waiting for something in the way of info that will show DA is different than their recent example.

Like the inclusion of multiplayer co-op. ME screams for co-op sidekicks over Live, but that didn't materialize. I just have this growing suspicion that the co-op MP campaign aspirations discussed long ago have hit the cutting room floor. Hopefully my concern is misplaced.

-Tim

Charles

07-13-2008, 10:27 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4fOybHb5bc

Shadari

07-13-2008, 10:34 AM

Have they revealed any of the "epic news" for world-builders and modders?

nabeel

07-13-2008, 11:05 AM

Nothing from the mailing list, at least.

Roy Ziegler

07-13-2008, 11:22 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4fOybHb5bc

hilarious

Jason McMaster

07-13-2008, 11:33 AM

yikes, now THIS was a bad PR move

Sarkus

07-13-2008, 11:35 AM

Is it just me, or did the "tower" look like an Oblivion gate?

And that clip Charles linked to is hilarious.

TurinTur

07-13-2008, 11:55 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4fOybHb5bc

Inquiring minds want to know the truth!

XD

Charles

07-13-2008, 11:59 AM

Is it just me, or did the "tower" look like an Oblivion gate?

And that clip Charles linked to is hilarious.

Created, actually.

Sarkus

07-13-2008, 12:05 PM

Created, actually.

Ha ha. Even better. You should put a link to that on the official forum.

:-)

Bill Dungsroman

07-13-2008, 12:40 PM

I LUV U CHARLES

Killzig

07-13-2008, 12:47 PM

Their forums will be down on Monday. Aren't we finally supposed to see some gameplay tomorrow?

http://forums.bioware.com/viewtopic.html?topic=639988&forum=84

noun

07-13-2008, 12:52 PM

Wow, those trailers look awful. It looks like what you'd get if you combine the plot of Oblivion with the genericide of Dark Messiah Might and Magic. Even the Neverwinter Nights 2 intro movie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUbGjS_00XY) was more interesting and informative than this. Hell, even the ORIGINAL NWN intro movie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDJyOTLAK4Y) was better than this.

Charles, that's awesome. I didn't even notice the haphazard animation that had the tower explode BEFORE the fireball hit it. That's some high quality work there, Bioware.

Charles

07-13-2008, 12:55 PM

Were there even minotaurs in NWN1?

Angie Gallant

07-13-2008, 01:04 PM

Nope.

Warren

07-13-2008, 01:09 PM

It doesn't help that the weather in the clip is rainy and dark. It makes everything look gray. Maybe the underlying engine can make things look amazing and they are just going for atmosphere but instead they got washed-out and crappy-looking.

Ranulf

07-13-2008, 01:21 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4fOybHb5bc

Damn truthers.

noun

07-13-2008, 01:56 PM

Nope.

I guess they added them long after release (http://nwn.bioware.com/downloads/max_models.html).

Jasper Phillips

07-13-2008, 02:49 PM

Also: movie clip. I won't defend Bioware's decision to make a quasi-big deal about showing a movie clip form the game (maybe), but I have been playing Mass Effect and with the strides they have clearly made with that game, I'm going to need more than some brief clip to turn me off of their next venture.
I've been playing Mass Effect too, and that's largely what I'm thinking of it. It's much better crafted than it seemed at first glance/movie-clip, and while it is space opera, I would no longer call it generic.

At the end of the day, these little clips show essentially nothing. That does make them rather pointless, but certainly doesn't deter me considering how well I've liked (several) of their games in the past -- rather the same thing that makes people excited about Diablo 3.

Jasper Phillips

07-13-2008, 03:02 PM

You think the Witch Doctor is a vaguely European guy, what are you nuts?
While not european, I did consider the Witch Doctor a very generic archetype. Generic Fantasy is often a pastiche of cobbled together and misfitting pieces from different settings.

I don't find the Diablo World generic. I've always associated Diablo with being a bit weird and a little non-traditional. As a traditionalist, I don't view those as pluses (I prefer Titan Quest's world myself and would love for someone to do King Arthur/Camelot without any modern irony added in).
I, uh.... Are you arguing with me? It sounds like you're making my point. I totally agree that something based on Greek Mythology or Arthurian Myth would be less generic, and more interesting, than Diablo's setting.

There's a lot that makes Diablo non-generic, non-LotR, non-Camelot, non-Standard High Fantasy. Consider for example those weird creatures shown that get fat and explode into strange eels. That's the sort of Diablo stuff I'm not particularly fond of, but it's certainly not generic. They've got some other weird stuff in the gameplay. The Wall of Zombies is an example of the kind of twisted stuff I've come to expect from Diablo. No real gameplay difference between a Wall of Zombies and a Wall of Thorns, but using Zombies is just more Diablo-esque.
I dunno. Zombies are the height of generic monster-dom to me. I used to think Zombies were like Nazi's for Pulp Adventure -- how could you go wrong? Now however, I'm throughly sick of zombies.

Compare the Diablo 3 gameplay to the Dragon Age trailer. The Dragon Age trailer looks like someone just tried to replicate the LotR movies. Diablo 3's world is just the sort of twisted world I've come to expect from Diablo (for better or worse).
Actually, it doesn't particularly remind me of LotR. Where are you getting that from? Where are the dwarves, elves, and hobbits? Those weren't orcs. I'll agree "The Blight!(tm)" is tepid, but it doesn't remind me of LotR.

The only part that reminded me of the LotR is that they had a big battle -- not much to rest a comparison on!

Tankero

07-13-2008, 03:04 PM

I'm throughly sick of zombies.

Moore would like to have a word with you.

Jasper Phillips

07-13-2008, 03:07 PM

Wow. This is turning into a marketing disaster. Clearly the fruits of the EA purchase are already ripening.
It's amazing to me how little it takes for the feeding frenzy to start, and how absolutely none of it is over anything substantial about the game -- it's purely over stumbled PR.

How was Diablo different? Blizzard has flawless PR.

Jasper Phillips

07-13-2008, 03:09 PM

Moore would like to have a word with you.
I don't know who Moore is, nor particular care if he still likes zombies. I'm sick of them.

I'm having a hard time remembering the last time I played an RPG without zombies; they're like Sewers, only more overused. Even Mass Effect has zombies. :-/

It boggles my mind that anyone can think Diablo is less generic because it has zombies, in walls! Or zombies, that explode!.

Equisilus

07-13-2008, 03:16 PM

Zombies are popular because they're like people, only dead, so you can kill them all you want and use and abuse them without it being Bad(tm).

TQ's one of those few games where every single one of your enemies is a non-human (or dead human). Why are zombies always human-like anyway? Shouldn't there be zombies for other creatures, too? You know, zombie monkeys and the like.

Mordrak

07-13-2008, 03:16 PM

I'm having a hard time remembering the last time I played an RPG without zombies; they're like Sewers, only more overused. Even Mass Effect has zombies. :-/

Yeah, ME's zombies are terrible if only for they way they are made. Giant spikes? Really? That's the most efficient way machines could make organics cybernetic zombies?

Tankero

07-13-2008, 03:18 PM

Well, the symbolic dynamic of zombies is appealing to any setting, which is why they are so prevalent.

However, that is just a sad attempt of humor on my part, Moore's zombies are the stuff of legend after all.

On the other hand, the fact that the zombies explode in a ball of eels (not fire) was the mark of distinction that the poster you replied to was pointing to. So, it wasn't, pointedly, zombies what he was referring to. Rather, it was the fashion in which they die; judge his position based on that premise. For the record, I tend to agree with you. Diablo IS extremely generic.

Kool Moe Dee

07-13-2008, 03:18 PM

It's amazing to me how little it takes for the feeding frenzy to start, and how absolutely none of it is over anything substantial about the game -- it's purely over stumbled PR.

How was Diablo different? Blizzard has flawless PR.

Unfortunately, we have been given precious little in the way of information about the actual game, so it's only natural to focus energy (and criticism) on what they have shown -- namely, bland, generic cutscenes with embarrassing technical problems in them.

Sarkus

07-13-2008, 05:13 PM

By the way, Charles' video was linked over on the official boards. By a mod, no less.
:-)

ydejin

07-13-2008, 05:18 PM

Actually, it doesn't particularly remind me of LotR. Where are you getting that from? Where are the dwarves, elves, and hobbits? Those weren't orcs. I'll agree "The Blight!(tm)" is tepid, but it doesn't remind me of LotR.

I got bad news for you Jasper. Dragon Age has Dwarves and Elves. I'm not sure about Hobbits.

How does it remind me of LotR? The almost the whole damn thing could have been cut straight out of Two Towers. Dudes sitting around waiting for attack in the dark with the rain coming down. Evil force approaches, looking rather Orc/Uruk-hai-like. There's a blond guy that has a vague Orlando-Bloomish look to him (although I presume he's not an elf). Check out the sword move by the evil guy at 0:40 seconds in. His sword looks like an Elvish sword from the LotR movies and even the way he swings it is exactly the way the Elves in LotR swing their swords.

The only parts that don't look cut from LotR look like they're cut from Oblivion. The shape of the towers, for example look very much like the Capital City in Oblivion. Look at the opening shot which starts with the tower with a fire at the top of it, and compare the shape to the shape of the Cyrodiil capital towers.

Andrew Mayer

07-13-2008, 05:26 PM

Unfortunately, we have been given precious little in the way of information about the actual game, so it's only natural to focus energy (and criticism) on what they have shown -- namely, bland, generic cutscenes with embarrassing technical problems in them.

Absolutely what I meant. Diablo's video was beautiful, but we've seen the [Proper Noun] is threating the [Proper Noun] with the [Proper Noun] and only the [Proper Noun] can save them! thing a thousand times before. By releasing the gameplay vid they put their money where they mouth is.

I can't remember what was released when for Mass Effect, but it seemed as if the excitement for the game was constantly increasing.

Honestly, without the Bioware logo, I'd be thinking this was something coming out of Eastern Europe with slightly above average voice acting.

ydejin

07-13-2008, 05:33 PM

I can't remember what was released when for Mass Effect, but it seemed as if the excitement for the game was constantly increasing.
The thing that always stood out for me about the original Mass Effect trailer was the way Shepard's eyes narrowed as he turns to face a threat. That to me seemed a level of realism that I wasn't used to seeing in video game animation, and it turns out it really was indicative of ME's advancements in that area. The other thing is just there are a lot more fantasy RPGs out there, so I was excited by a non-Star Wars SciFi RPG.

I think there was a relatively long time after the first ME trailer until we got additional information. But that trailer came out 2 years before release. I think Dragon Age is actually supposed to be less than a year out.

I'm certainly still looking forward to Dragon Age, but the trailer does seem pretty boring and is certainly not generating any excitement from me.

mono

07-13-2008, 05:46 PM

I'm still pretty excited about this game. Cutscene trailers are typically pretty bland. I'll withhold judgment until we see the gameplay vids.

Warren

07-13-2008, 06:06 PM

Miramon

07-13-2008, 06:12 PM

Yeah, ME's zombies are terrible if only for they way they are made. Giant spikes? Really? That's the most efficient way machines could make organics cybernetic zombies?
I wish ME was good enough that I could reasonably complain about the zombies and spikes, but that is sev 4 pri 4 as far as I'm concerned....

Angie Gallant

07-13-2008, 09:15 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4fOybHb5bc

You have already been accused of viral marketing in the comments.

Roy Ziegler

07-13-2008, 09:44 PM

By the way, Charles' video was linked over on the official boards. By a mod, no less.
:-)

Yep. Sure is making its rounds, and it deserves it.

07-14-2008, 03:20 AM

IGN has a bunch of screenshots (http://uk.media.pc.ign.com/media/682/682217/imgs_1.html).

-Julian

syllogism

07-14-2008, 03:25 AM

They should have shown this screenshot instead of the teaser http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/888/888796/dragon-age-origins-20080714005226759.jpg

TurinTur

07-14-2008, 03:31 AM

Here here

http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/888/888796/dragon-age-origins-20080714005226759.jpg

moromete

07-14-2008, 03:34 AM

Yup, screenshots are looking very Baldurish like, which is good in my book. Cinematic trailer looks... neutral.

TurinTur

07-14-2008, 03:53 AM

Speaking about Baldur's gate, i have a dirty gamer secret about it. I have never player Baldur's Gate 2, because i didn't like BG 1. I don't like the D&D system and also don't like the D&D setting. That's why i am following Dragon Age with a bit of doubt, in one hand it will be their own setting and system, not D&D, that's a good point. In the other hand, i don't feel identified with with the phrase shouted by everyone:. "the spiritual sucessor of Baldur's Gate, great!!!". That doesn't say anything to me.

moromete

07-14-2008, 04:06 AM

Hey, I did not like BG1, mainly because I played it after BG2... but BG2 is a great game, D&D aside. Get your hands on it some day and try it out...

ydejin

07-14-2008, 05:43 AM

Yup, screenshots are looking very Baldurish like, which is good in my book. Cinematic trailer looks... neutral.

I agree. I'm a lot happier with the screenshots than I was with the trailer. Definitely looks good.

MSUSteve

07-14-2008, 06:12 AM

The trailer was pretty blah, but the screenshots do look great. I'll be excited about anything done by Bioware, but I have to admit when I saw the trailer on GTTV I was like, "Really? That's it, huh?" It certainly doesn't put the game's best foot forward.

Charles

07-14-2008, 06:25 AM

nabeel

07-14-2008, 06:36 AM

A little bit of new info. (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=180452)

According to the press release it will be here early next year and only on PC.
Lots is being made of its dark fantasy setting, which promises to be mature and littered with "credible" characters and voice acting. The result hopes to be the kind of emotional affair BioWare is famed for.
Specifically we're told to expect a party-based system that scales from small encounters up to "hordes" of baddies and "massive creatures".
You will be able to combine spells together to create new effects, and there will be spells, skills and talents to customise your characters with. Also, lots of magical loot.

Wallapuctus

07-14-2008, 06:41 AM

God damn it... this is the game that will make me waste my money on a new PC. Dragon Age: $49.99 (plus $1000 in hardware upgrades).

Fuck you PC gaming, die already.

biclops

07-14-2008, 06:41 AM

This is almost exactly what I want. Hopefully it will allow more party members than 4, but anything more than 3 is nice.

TurinTur

07-14-2008, 06:42 AM

Screens here (real time but not gameplay like the other one)

http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=53832

Some of them are really nice:
http://www.worthplaying.com/press/288/DragonAgeOrigins_015.jpg

Charles

07-14-2008, 08:03 AM

Those screenshots are ancient.

unbongwah

07-14-2008, 08:50 AM

I can't stand that type of RTS slant. If it plays anything like the BG games I'll be skipping it.
After years of putting up with PC gamers whine, "MOAR LIK BALDURZ GATE PLZ!!1!" I find your comment amusing. So what were you hoping for instead?

RepoMan

07-14-2008, 10:00 AM

At least the hype is improving (http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&threadid=89365) a bit:

• Epic Party-Based Combat – Dragon Age: Origins will introduce an innovative, scalable combat system, as players face large-scale battles and use their party’s special abilities to destroy hoardes of enemies and massive creatures.
• Powerful Magic – Raining down awesome destruction on enemies is even more compelling as players apply “spell combos,” a way of combining together different spells to create emergent unique effects.
• Deep Customization – Players will develop their characters and gain powerful special abilities (spells, talents and skills) and discover ever-increasing weapons of destruction.
• Your Story, Your Way – With its emotionally compelling story, players choose with whom they wish to forge alliances or crush under their mighty fist, redefining the world with the choices they make and how they wield their power.
Emphasis added. Why yes, I would quite like to crush evildoers under my mighty fist. Or maybe good guys. Anyway, mighty-fist-crushing YEAH! More hype like this plzkthxbai.

TurinTur

07-14-2008, 10:07 AM

After years of putting up with PC gamers whine, "MOAR LIK BALDURZ GATE PLZ!!1!" I find your comment amusing. So what were you hoping for instead?

Don't assume he is a pc gamer. ;)

Roy Ziegler

07-14-2008, 10:22 AM

Don't assume he is a pc gamer. ;)

Or that all pc gamers want the same thing.

Sarkus

07-14-2008, 11:11 AM

I'm also much happier now that they are showing screenshots. That said, the Oblivion comparisons are inevitable in the close-up shots that are predominating, but I suppose that's no surprise given Oblivion's success. No doubt they are trying to get that crowd's attention while the longer view option appeals to the traditional fan of that perspective.

All that aside, I'm not hugely impressed by the graphical quality, but hopefully we'll see some gameplay videos where it all comes together.

Edit: I find it funny that just as Bioware releases screenshots that are probably going to make many people happy, they fire off another misstep with the genius plan to take down their forums (or at least not allow posting) for a big chunk of today for forum maintenance. Way to stifle the hype machine they building! Couldn't they have done this last week?

Robert Sharp

07-14-2008, 01:06 PM

Oh my. The hype is really building now. That trailer was lame, but these screens and gameplay notes? Good stuff!! Keep it coming!

Kunikos

07-14-2008, 01:43 PM

Here here

http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/888/888796/dragon-age-origins-20080714005226759.jpg

Reminds me a lot of NWN2's interface (but spruced up a bit). The health bar and name tag over the enemy's head reminds me of WoW (and god I wish I had that feature in Planescape: Torment, I can never figure out how much health anything has left).

I'm not pleased by the cinematic but then again I didn't really care for the opening cinematic of NWN2 either, so no big deal. It's going to be all about what the basic gameplay components play like and what the RPG systems in the game are like. Oh, and how good the game-world is considering it's a new IP (so far it looks like a generic rip of Tolkein).

Equisilus

07-14-2008, 02:47 PM

Edit: I find it funny that just as Bioware releases screenshots that are probably going to make many people happy, they fire off another misstep with the genius plan to take down their forums (or at least not allow posting) for a big chunk of today for forum maintenance. Way to stifle the hype machine they building! Couldn't they have done this last week?

The timing is off, for sure, but the reason for the maintenance is the release of the new info. It's all about a relaunch. It's just too bad it wasn't as quick and easy as throwing a switch, since the influx of people are only going to see a forum they can't post on for a bit. Fortunately, they can at least read everything.

As to the screenshot shown above...I'm liking it. It's the first thing that Bio's shown for DA that I really like this past week.

Sarkus

07-14-2008, 02:57 PM

The timing is off, for sure, but the reason for the maintenance is the release of the new info. It's all about a relaunch. It's just too bad it wasn't as quick and easy as throwing a switch, since the influx of people are only going to see a forum they can't post on for a bit. Fortunately, they can at least read everything.

As to the screenshot shown above...I'm liking it. It's the first thing that Bio's shown for DA that I really like this past week.

Well, except all the Bioware forums are down, not just the Dragon Age ones. It was a planned downtime that somebody decided this was a good day for. It just strikes me that doing it on the first day of E3 coverage when you know new stuff will be released that will get people excited is a bad idea. Like I said, they could have done it a week or two ago when there was less going on.

Moore

07-14-2008, 02:58 PM

what the fuck, am I crazy or is the fire in that screenie more or less a 2d sprite ala duke nukem 3d fire?

Sarkus

07-14-2008, 03:03 PM

Sadly, those screenshots do for me exactly what the trailers did not -- turn me off of it completely.

I can't stand that type of RTS slant. If it plays anything like the BG games I'll be skipping it.

We'll have to see but I'm guessing that's an optional way to play. In other words, if you want to stay close like KOTOR/JE/ME you probably can and if you want to zoom out for more of a "tactical" feel you can do that to.

Also, your comments make it pretty clear why you never liked NWN2. :-)

Funkula

07-14-2008, 03:25 PM

what the fuck, am I crazy or is the fire in that screenie more or less a 2d sprite ala duke nukem 3d fire?

Isn't it kind of unusual for fire (other than explosions) to be handled in 3d? I mean, I'm honestly not sure. I'm pretty sure I've seen flames handled as sprites (or I guess textures on a transparent surface perpendicular to the player) in quite a few modern 3d games. The problem there appears to be that they're letting you see it at an angle where you can tell that it has no depth.

Equisilus

07-14-2008, 04:13 PM

Well, except all the Bioware forums are down, not just the Dragon Age ones.

That's not true. I've been posting there just fine in other forums.

Sarkus

07-14-2008, 04:37 PM

That's not true. I've been posting there just fine in other forums.

Yeah, I just noticed that. Which is weird because the "forums will be down" thread was put up in all of them.

Meanwhile, the Dragon Age forum downtime is now past when they predicted it would be, but at least an hour and a half.

Gendal

07-14-2008, 04:49 PM

Equisilus

07-14-2008, 05:10 PM

So now it's coming to consoles accoring to Shacknews (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/53624).

Of course that's zero details and no source other than 'developer' so it may be an entirely new game just drawing on the setting or they could already be gimping the current DA with a console interface.

It wouldn't surprise me a bit if DA went to consoles (I more or less expected it), but I'd hate it if they were making concessions in the PC version to accommodate an easier PC>console transition. I've been thinking one of the reasons I didn't feel the desire to replay KotOR, JEPC, & MEPC as often as other RPGs has to do with the console-skewed gameplay. I definitely do not want DA to go that way.

Robert Sharp

07-14-2008, 05:30 PM

I really enjoy console games. But I agree completely. I want a good, PC-centric RPG. I don't want concessions for the console AT ALL. I want tactics and party control and the need for a keyboard and all that.

Sarkus

07-14-2008, 07:12 PM

I don't think this has been mentioned, but from the official DA press release as reported by Blues News:

• Epic Party-Based Combat – Dragon Age: Origins will introduce an innovative, scalable combat system, as players face large-scale battles and use their party’s special abilities to destroy hoardes of enemies and massive creatures.
• Powerful Magic – Raining down awesome destruction on enemies is even more compelling as players apply “spell combos,” a way of combining together different spells to create emergent unique effects.
• Deep Customization – Players will develop their characters and gain powerful special abilities (spells, talents and skills) and discover ever-increasing weapons of destruction.
• Your Story, Your Way – With its emotionally compelling story, players choose with whom they wish to forge alliances or crush under their mighty fist, redefining the world with the choices they make and how they wield their power.
• Origin Stories – Players will select and play a unique prelude that provides the lens through which the player sees the world and how the world sees the player. The player’s choice of Origin will determine who they are and where they begin the adventure, as they play through a customized story opening that profoundly impacts the course of every adventure.

The "origin story" thing is pretty interesting. Customizing the beginning of the game with a different starting location suggests a fair amount of effort for areas only a percentage of players see (at least the first time through), though I suppose there are ways to get around that. I wonder how many "different" origins and starting locations the game will have?

Mike O'Malley

07-14-2008, 07:19 PM

Bah, Mass Effect had it first.

Sarkus

07-14-2008, 07:29 PM

Bah, Mass Effect had it first.

In what way? At least in the 360 version you started in the same place either way and the only difference was that the conversation about why they were choosing you was different and a few minor quests allowed you some different options. That's a very mild "differentiation" compared to what the press release seems to suggest above. What they are talking about there seems more like MMO's like WoW and LOTRO where there are different starting areas.

Kunikos

07-14-2008, 08:04 PM

Bah, Mass Effect had it first.

... but Dragon Age will perfect it. ;)

nordhus

07-14-2008, 08:11 PM

The "origin story" thing is pretty interesting. Customizing the beginning of the game with a different starting location suggests a fair amount of effort for areas only a percentage of players see (at least the first time through), though I suppose there are ways to get around that. I wonder how many "different" origins and starting locations the game will have?

According to this (http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?pager.offset=2&cId=3155733) old preview, it's two origins per race.

Sarkus

07-14-2008, 09:42 PM

As an aside, the official forum for Dragon Age is still down.

Pretty big hype day for the game, people are talking, and no way to post over there. And the big new official page hasn't been updated since last Wednesday and still promotes the trailer they showed last Friday. No links to either version of the trailer, the official press release about the game that was released today, or all the screenshots that were out today. If I was running that company, I'd be pretty annoyed.

Edit: They finally got the forums back online and updated the main page with some new info.

www.dragonage.bioware.com

Aeon221

07-15-2008, 01:08 AM

In the top right corner of that screen shot, the location is listed as "Tower of Ishal". Ten to one it's the infamous conspiracy tower, and our "heroes" are there to weaken the supports with their mystical 2d fire.

Squee

07-15-2008, 01:44 AM

Bah, Mass Effect had it first.
COUGHBLOODLINESWITHFANPATCHARCANUMNEVERWINTERNIGHT S2COUGH
Think that's all of 'em that had it before Mass Effect, anyway. I'd say Arcanum's was probably the best though. And Temple of Elemental Evil had different openings for the different alignments.

Moore

07-15-2008, 05:13 AM

Isn't it kind of unusual for fire (other than explosions) to be handled in 3d? I mean, I'm honestly not sure. I'm pretty sure I've seen flames handled as sprites (or I guess textures on a transparent surface perpendicular to the player) in quite a few modern 3d games. The problem there appears to be that they're letting you see it at an angle where you can tell that it has no depth.

Yeah, usually there is some shit going on to make it look ok from above instead of letting you see behind the curtain. Really sticks out sicen the rest is all fancy.

jeansberg

07-15-2008, 05:52 AM

COUGHBLOODLINESWITHFANPATCHARCANUMNEVERWINTERNIGHT S2COUGH
Think that's all of 'em that had it before Mass Effect, anyway. I'd say Arcanum's was probably the best though. And Temple of Elemental Evil had different openings for the different alignments.
The only one of those games that actually starts differently for different characters is TOEE. The other ones only provide you with "backgrounds" that does such interesting stuff as add and subtract a couple of skill/stat points here and there.

Gordon Cameron

07-15-2008, 06:25 AM

Ultima IV had you start in different areas depending on which class you chose, FWIW... (Hot tip: Don't pick shepherd!)

Robert Sharp

07-15-2008, 06:28 AM

I'm in the midst of playing Arcanum, and I started a few different characters for fun. There are no different origins and starting points. There are backgrounds, as part of character creation, but they have no affect on the story at all, AFAIK.

Charles

07-15-2008, 08:03 AM

Seiken Densetsu 3 had you start in a different part of the story, and see completely unique things, depending on which characters you picked.

Gabe Lewis

07-15-2008, 12:14 PM

Sarkus

07-15-2008, 12:20 PM

Does anybody understand this strategy of releasing 800 variations of the same trailer? Each one slightly better than the last?

I certainly find it perplexing.

all of them together for your convenience:

http://boards.1up.com/zd/board/message?board.id=games&thread.id=773122

Yeah, it's weird. The one up on the official site is the best of them. My guess is that they kept the best one for their site. They already said they gave the other two to Gametrailers and let them decide which one to use.

Kunikos

07-15-2008, 12:37 PM

Did anyone else notice the logo has changed so that the "origins" bit no longer looks like spooge? (ie it looks gold now instead of white)

Gabe Lewis

07-15-2008, 01:50 PM

To bad these still look like black rubber dildos:

http://dragonage.bioware.com/_commonext/images/dragonage/gallery/gallery_zoomer_4.jpg

Kunikos

07-15-2008, 02:03 PM

I'm not sure I want to go near you or hear anything further when you relate 6 foot tall candelabras with something you stick in an orifice.

Gabe Lewis

07-15-2008, 03:24 PM

I was referring to the sword models?

Tankero

07-15-2008, 03:27 PM

Hey, you can use whatever weapon you like. There is no need to judge anyone else on their choice of arsenal.

Obviously, that particular character is of a certain class that favors... peculiar strategies.

Roy Ziegler

07-15-2008, 03:41 PM

I was referring to the sword models?

Yeah, still doesn't look like a dildo. Maybe you buy some medieval time themed dildos I've never seen?

Gabe Lewis

07-15-2008, 04:08 PM

The blade is an black cylindrically object with little to no detail. I don't see how calling it a dildo is a big stretch but I guess some folks just feel the need to jump on a bad joke with the even worse "Well I guess we know whats on your mind" joke.

Bravo.

Equisilus

07-15-2008, 04:12 PM

I'm really pleased to hear about the camera angle and control. Being able to zoom the camera up and out (or zoomed in for those that like that) is a huge plus for me. Just that change from their last few PC games (KotOR, JEPC, MEPC) will make it far more enjoyable. Also, from this thread (http://dragonage.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=640673&forum=135&sp=30):

Posted 07/15/08 18:26 (GMT) by Jose Ilitzky

First of all, the camera supports limited panning on the farthest zoom level (it can pan away from the party about a screen ahead). So you guys are right, the camera doesn't need to always be centered on a character when using the tactical view. In fact, the goal of the camera at this zoom level is to be as static as possible so that as a player you can give instructions to your party members easily without the camera moving around. This means that while switching party members (if they are on screen) the camera will remain on the spot. This is especially useful when giving instructions to party members while the game is paused. While in this mode, the camera uses a lazy behavior to follow the party around, so that means that when the party is going away from the screen the camera will catch up with them. However, it's possible to go a bit ahead in the terrain and ask your characters to move there (ala Baldur's Gate) and the camera will remain on the spot waiting for the characters to arrive at their destination.

Sounds like they are putting a lot of effort into getting the camera right while offering options for everyone. I like!

Sarkus

07-15-2008, 04:13 PM

The blade is an undetailed black cylindrically object. I don't see how calling it a dildo is a big stretch but I guess some folks just feel the need to jump on a bad joke with the even worse "Well I guess we know whats on your mind" joke.

Bravo.

While agree with your characterization of the sword, the more important question you should be asking yourself is why that caught your attention in the screen shot.

:-)

Gabe Lewis

07-15-2008, 04:18 PM

Its a really nice shot, but those swords look just god-awful. Perhaps they look more like balloon swords? Happy now joke stranglers?

Sarkus

07-15-2008, 04:21 PM

Its a really nice shot, but those swords look just god-awful. Perhaps they look more like balloon swords? Happy now joke stranglers?

Well, even though it's being characterized as "dark, gritty fantasy" (which I guess means elves with dirt smudged on their faces or something), perhaps they wanted to add an element of humor. Maybe throughout the whole game people make jokes about your inappropriately shaped sword? The humor potential there is endless!

:-)

Roy Ziegler

07-15-2008, 04:28 PM

This dildo guy's really getting defensive, isn't he?

Equisilus

07-15-2008, 05:17 PM

Maybe I should have said something more entertaining about the camera angles? Perhaps throw the word dildo in there somewhere?

Imagine all the camera angles! Oh, nevermind.

Kunikos

07-15-2008, 05:19 PM

Dragon Age, now with the amazing behind-the-thigh camera angle feature.

Robert Sharp

07-15-2008, 05:19 PM

I agree completely on the camera angles. You don't have to dildo it up for me.

Gabe Lewis

07-15-2008, 05:23 PM

Dildo Guy demands more dildo talk.

But seriously

I'm glad their including options, but i'm not sure i'm going to have a use for those extra options. I never felt like I needed to be closer to the action when playing Baldurs Gate or Fallout. And i never felt like i needed a more tactical view when playing KOTOR. I really hope they up the party size however, 4 is a bit small for me.

ps. dildos

Aeon221

07-15-2008, 05:31 PM

Four seems like plenty to me. Any more and you end up with an RTS.

Sarkus

07-15-2008, 05:35 PM

Four seems like plenty to me. Any more and you end up with an RTS.

Call me old fashioned but I like the six person party. I'm hoping that like NWN2, the four person limit can be broken by a quick console cheat or easy hak. The fact that the game is going to support a world builder suggests there will be ways around party size limits.

Gendal

07-15-2008, 10:16 PM

I like 6 too if only with the flexibility to include most of the character archetypes. Of course that's a D&D mindset, not really sure how classes/characters/levels/whatever are going to be handled in DA.

Sarkus

07-15-2008, 10:26 PM

Warren

07-15-2008, 10:56 PM

The sword gives me a whole new fear to being "back-stabbed".

Ouch.

Wallapuctus

07-16-2008, 06:22 AM

Even without the D&D mindset, the four person limit means you don't really get to experience the NPC's. I don't really want to have to play a game 4 times to find out the story behind all the NPC's because the designers decided to make how they react dependent on time spent with the group. That's been Bioware's pattern since BG, so I expect that to be the case with DA:O.

They do it on purpose to add replay value. Also, many of the NPC interactions in Baldur's Gate depended on the make up of your party, so having 7 NPCs would make for far more complex interactions than just 4.

The Mass Effect/KotR model of keeping all the NPCs in a "lobby" is nice too but I appreciated the illusion of the NPCs having their own lives in Baldur's Gate. For instance, I left Yoshimo once and when I went to find him again he was gone. I found out later he was killed by the thieves' guild because I never bothered to help him out with them.

Aeon221

07-16-2008, 08:23 AM

I just dislike managing gear sets and skill loadouts for six+ characters on the screen at the same time, especially when bioware is none too good at automating party member functions. With a six+ party, the fights will have to either be very simple or require a great deal of micro. And thats just obnoxious in an rpg, at least in my mind. Three, four tops, means you can still have entertaining fights without having to pretend you're playing as six some people.

Call me old fashioned but I like the six person party. I'm hoping that like NWN2, the four person limit can be broken by a quick console cheat or easy hak. The fact that the game is going to support a world builder suggests there will be ways around party size limits.

I'm down with that, it seemed like a great compromise.

edit: If Mass Effect is any guide, they seem to be moving away from the whole "party members you play with tell you more" and towards "after passing certain milestones, party members open up more". And that's great.

Sarkus

07-16-2008, 10:53 AM

They do it on purpose to add replay value.

Sure, but that's my point. I don't want to be forced to replay in order to understand the full story. KOTOR 2 was horrible in that regard: you needed to play with different alignments and different party members and choose a different gender for your PC if you wanted all the details of the backstory they created. A lot of us don't have time to replay more than once anymore. I'm not saying that you should be able to get everything on one play through, but two should be enough to get almost everything.

Also, many of the NPC interactions in Baldur's Gate depended on the make up of your party, so having 7 NPCs would make for far more complex interactions than just 4.

Well, they managed a PC+5 NPC's for Baldur's Gate 1 & 2, right? Why limit it to 3 NPC's since? And while it's not a Bioware game, I hacked NWN2 & MOTB to allow 5 NPC's and it didn't break anything. It simply made the encounters easier.

I just dislike managing gear sets and skill loadouts for six+ characters on the screen at the same time, especially when bioware is none too good at automating party member functions. With a six+ party, the fights will have to either be very simple or require a great deal of micro. And thats just obnoxious in an rpg, at least in my mind. Three, four tops, means you can still have entertaining fights without having to pretend you're playing as six some people.

I guess it depends on how you want to play. While the IE games required micromanaging, I found NWN2 (the only recent large party game, when hacked, I can think of) could be played by letting the AI take control of the NPC's most of the time. The AI mods helped with that, as did being willing to play with the difficulty level, but it was very possible. I honestly think the move towards smaller groups is as much about making encounters easier to balance as they are about AI limitations.

Gabe Lewis

07-16-2008, 01:46 PM

New 1up preview:

http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3168782

Very little substantial information but a decent read from someone whose actually seen the game in action.

Equisilus

07-16-2008, 02:51 PM

Sure, but that's my point. I don't want to be forced to replay in order to understand the full story. KOTOR 2 was horrible in that regard: you needed to play with different alignments and different party members and choose a different gender for your PC if you wanted all the details of the backstory they created. A lot of us don't have time to replay more than once anymore. I'm not saying that you should be able to get everything on one play through, but two should be enough to get almost everything.

I have the opposite stance. I want added replay value and hated that, in the KotORs, you are sometimes forced to use the characters that you normally wouldn't have had in your small party, or at least were able to interact with them most of the game, even when they were outside your party. The same is true for Mass Effect and Jade Empire. It really stole some of the interest in replaying those games, and that's one of the reasons that I stopped playing after only a couple of replays. On the other hand, games like BG2 had massive replay value because I could take along a set party and totally ignore every other NPC in the game. Next game, I get a different mix, and with the third, another set, etc. Since most of the dialogue was in-party interaction, if you didn't take the NPC along, and have them for most of the game, you wouldn't have anything other than a shallow encounter. At least that way I'm experiencing something new while going through a story that otherwise didn't change all that much.

I like the smaller party, too, as it makes the combat dynamics a bit more varied between games. The larger the party, the more likely you are to have a group of characters that cover all the play styles (the archetypical fighter, mage, cleric, rogue group). A group of four may fit that, of course, but we don't know how the NPCs will be designed at this point. It's possible that the NPCs don't conform to the traditional group, forcing us to play differently depending on the choices we make.

As you can see, I'm all about replay. I understand why it might be a problem for those with limited time. I consider myself a member of that group, though. I suspect others' "limited game time" may be because they move on to other games more rapidly than I do. When I say "limited" I really mean "limited". I rarely buy more than one game every couple of months, on average.

nabeel

07-16-2008, 03:24 PM

RepoMan

07-16-2008, 03:37 PM

Equisilius, how much time do you spend gaming per week? Me, I am lucky to get six hours per week. Unfortunately for my completion rate, that doesn't stop me from buying games on impulse.

Sarkus

07-16-2008, 04:03 PM

Gamespot just showed a few minutes of actual gameplay on their live E3 video feed (http://e3.gamespot.com/live.html). Most of the stuff that gets shown gets put up for re-streaming or download, so watch that page for an update.

The official site gives access to some stuff they prepared for the media for E3, including some new screenshots. They also posted two gameplay videos, but had to shut that down when fans overloaded their bandwidth.
:-)

Equisilus

07-16-2008, 04:17 PM

RepoMan, my gaming time can vary from the low of about 5 hours up to 15, depending on where in the release cycle I am. When a game is first released, especially story heavy ones, I like to play as often as I can because I visit so many gaming forums that avoiding spoilers can be difficult (and annoying). Usually, most of my gaming time is saved for the weekend, with only less than an hour during any weekday. In the past 7 days, for instance, I've played about 7 hours of TQ and a little bit of FFXII on the PS3.

Unlike you, though, I do complete every game I play (with only two or three exceptions in my lifetime) and don't buy games on impulse. I definitely get my money's worth out of them.

Tyjenks

07-16-2008, 04:22 PM

You don't have to dildo it up for me.
That cracked me up. I think I will use this line at work tomorrow.

Angie Gallant

07-16-2008, 04:25 PM

http://www.guitarfxdepot.com/wp-content/uploads/skwigelf1.jpg
I approves of this thread.

Sarkus

07-16-2008, 04:47 PM

Here's a direct link to the gameplay video that GameSpot showed earlier. This has one of the Bioware guys talking over it, but there is supposed to be a straight version with sound coming in about an hour or so on the main game site.

http://www.gamespot.com/video/920668/6194364/dragon-age-origins-e3-2008-stage-show-demo

Venture

07-16-2008, 04:51 PM

Wow, they should have released the gameplay footage first. That was pretty cool. I like the tactical stuff - cast a spell to light up some grease on the floor, which can be countered by a blizzard spell. The tossing stuff around, and the giant picking the characters up and beating on them, was different than what we've seen from NWN/NWN2.

Sarkus

07-16-2008, 04:57 PM

BleedTheFreak

07-16-2008, 06:14 PM

This is pure speculation, but Zeschuk's comments about the internet and this game being single player, plus the apparent fact that the original lead designer on DA is now working on the MMO, has me wondering if maybe the MMO is part of the DA franchise.

From what I've seen/read of the gameworld, I'd be just fine with that.

This gameplay footage was very cool. I'm a sucker for a good UI and it looks like this one is pretty fun to use, and the gameplay looked spot-on for what I have been craving for a while now. Should be a long (but fun) wait until early 09.

Venture

07-16-2008, 06:21 PM

Here's the link to where the higher def version of the video is hosted at Bioware's site, with no commentary:

http://press.bioware.com/Dragon_Age_E3_Assets/DragonAge_Video/

The first video is the gameplay one, the second one is the trailer.

There's a post somewhere over in the Dragon Age forums where someone from Bioware says a lot of nothing about whether the MMO will be based on Dragon Age - he says basically "it could be Dragon Age, it could be KoToR, it could be Jade Empire, or it could be something completely different."

Sarkus

07-16-2008, 06:39 PM

There's a post somewhere over in the Dragon Age forums where someone from Bioware says a lot of nothing about whether the MMO will be based on Dragon Age - he says basically "it could be Dragon Age, it could be KoToR, it could be Jade Empire, or it could be something completely different."

That's similar to what the PR guy said when he locked down the thread I started on the subject in the DA forum.

:-)

Malderi

07-16-2008, 10:53 PM

Mordrak

07-16-2008, 11:22 PM

Here's the link to where the higher def version of the video is hosted at Bioware's site, with no commentary:

http://press.bioware.com/Dragon_Age_E3_Assets/DragonAge_Video/

The first video is the gameplay one, the second one is the trailer.

Nice. Basically looks like a 3D BG. The faces are a mixed bag, some featuring NWN2 syndrome, but I can deal.

Brad Grenz

07-17-2008, 02:41 AM

Saw the demo on G4 and I'm really excited about the game now. The gameplay video they finally posted looks sweet as well. I remember being skeptical of the over the shoulder camera in the earlier screens, but after playing the Witcher I'm convinced it's the best view for exploration. Hopefully the system used for switching between perspectives will be elegant.

ydejin

07-17-2008, 02:56 AM

Nice. Basically looks like a 3D BG. The faces are a mixed bag, some featuring NWN2 syndrome, but I can deal.
They do have some Mass Effect facial animations. Check out the gameplay video from about 1:18-1:22. It's right before the encounter with the Ogre. You can't really see what they're all looking at (I assume it's the bodies on the floor which show up at the end of the interval), but you can see all their facial expressions. Very nicely done, their expressions are very readable as "Oh crap, we are in big trouble."

Chris Nahr

07-17-2008, 03:09 AM

New 1up preview:

http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3168782

Very little substantial information but a decent read from someone whose actually seen the game in action.

Isometric battle view, party-based system, tons of dialog choices instead of full voice-acting = win. Nice to see an old-style RPG that doesn't want to be a movie.

intruder

07-17-2008, 04:16 PM

Charles

07-17-2008, 04:34 PM

Wow. That gameplay video makes it look like NWN2. Weak.

JetLagger

07-17-2008, 05:37 PM

Isometric battle view, party-based system, tons of dialog choices instead of full voice-acting = win. Nice to see an old-style RPG that doesn't want to be a movie.

Yea all this sounds great, honestly it does, except they are missing an important part of community, MP socialization. Bio wants to establish a community similar to NWN around this game, yet again fail to implement the concept of the shared gaming experience.

Oh and thank you Jennifer Tsao for asking the MP question on the 1up show. I loved her reaction to the multiplayer answer, the look on the Doctor's face was priceless.

-Tim

Kunikos

07-17-2008, 05:50 PM

Wow. That gameplay video makes it look like NWN2. Weak.

Parts look like NWN2's tactical camera, but most of the video reminds me a lot more of D&D Online (the behind-the-shoulder stuff).

Yea all this sounds great, honestly it does, except they are missing an important part of community, MP socialization. Bio wants to establish a community similar to NWN around this game, yet again fail to implement the concept of the shared gaming experience.

Remind me again how the MP in Oblivion and Mass Effect allowed them to be successful? Oh wait...

Equisilus

07-17-2008, 05:51 PM

Bio's definitely not going for a NWN-style with DA:O. Good thing, too. NWN tried to do too many things and ended up not doing any of them the best they could be. Obviously, they want to build a burgeoning community around the DA universe, but it doesn't have to be all MP.

I'm not displeased about the lack of focus on an MP experience. With the flood of MMOs out there, and the blanket of games with MP capabilities, there's plenty of MP to go around.

Mike O'Malley

07-17-2008, 05:51 PM

Oh and thank you Jennifer Tsao for asking the MP question on the 1up show. I loved her reaction to the multiplayer answer, the look on the Doctor's face was priceless.

This sounds interesting, can you provide a bit more detail?

JetLagger

07-17-2008, 06:23 PM

This sounds interesting, can you provide a bit more detail?

1up show link (slow load)
http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/20149

Good interview actually. The interview covers multiple DA:O topics and I always enjoy Dr. Greg interviews.

She asks about MP support, the answer is, "there is none it's a single player game" giving him the evil eye she asks again "like...like...no MP, like no LAN?" and the answer is "no DA:O is a SP game" and she laughingly replies "I'm leaving, this interview is done" and gives the throat cut sign, producing a semi-surprised look from the doc. "really?, noooooo..." Pretty funny.

After, she does mention the she really enjoyed BG II MP LAN, as being one of her favorite gaming experiences, and I totally agree with her on that point. Good times.

-Tim

nordhus

07-17-2008, 06:25 PM

http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/20151

Roughly eight and a half minutes into the video.

Sarkus

07-17-2008, 07:31 PM

Wow. That gameplay video makes it look like NWN2. Weak.

What were you expecting? They are trying to satisfy the close third crowd that wants to play KOTOR/JE/ME style as well as the BG/BG2 crowd that wants to play isometric style. It's a 3d engine, so being able to rotate the camera in either mode is expected.

Honestly, what camera angle were you hoping for?

Desslock

07-17-2008, 09:38 PM

Looks like a 3D Baldur's Gate, which is a-o.k. with me.

I liked the part where the Demon picks up the party members and smacks them around - Diablo 3 had a similar scene, although it seemed like a finishing move - I guess "monster picks you up and messes with you" is the new lens flare!

Charles

07-17-2008, 09:42 PM

What were you expecting? They are trying to satisfy the close third crowd that wants to play KOTOR/JE/ME style as well as the BG/BG2 crowd that wants to play isometric style. It's a 3d engine, so being able to rotate the camera in either mode is expected.

Honestly, what camera angle were you hoping for?

I was hoping it would be something like their original idea. But hey, a lot can change in 6 or 7 years.

Anyway, I have no interest in Baldur's Gate style games. Their original ideas though? Would've been nice.

Sarkus

07-17-2008, 11:08 PM

I was hoping it would be something like their original idea. But hey, a lot can change in 6 or 7 years.

Anyway, I have no interest in Baldur's Gate style games. Their original ideas though? Would've been nice.

What ideas specifically? I recall the game all along being a bone thrown to the BG/BG2 crowd. Some of the other originally planned stuff may have been different, like what they now calling the "world builder" and the online multiplayer, but I guess I was always under the impression we would see some sort of 3rd person iso camera options.

Damien Neil

07-17-2008, 11:14 PM

Speaking of Baldur's Gate...

I've lost track: Does Bioware still have the D&D license? I'm really, really looking forward to the first 4E CRPG...but only if it's turn based.

Sarkus

07-17-2008, 11:20 PM

Speaking of Baldur's Gate...

I've lost track: Does Bioware still have the D&D license? I'm really, really looking forward to the first 4E CRPG...but only if it's turn based.

No. The only time they directly had it was when Atari (the current controller of the D&D license) took over as publisher of NWN. BG1/2 were published through Interplay, who had rights for a time.

One of the reasons Bioware is creating their own IP (Dragon Age) is because of the limits WoTC and Atari keep putting on license holders, particularly in terms of rules interpretations and in terms of mature themes. Bioware got sick of that, as have a number of other developers.

Gendal

07-18-2008, 12:17 AM

Wow. That gameplay video makes it look like NWN2. Weak.
I fucking hate myself for this, but I agree with Charles. That it looks like NWN2, not that it's necessarily weak. I don't get the comparisons to Baldur's Gate at all. Mostly I am afraid they will revisit the same sins they committed in NWN, and then repeated by Obsidian in NWN2.

First off is chaotic combat. I mean that in a negative way, it's very hard to tell if somebody is doing what you wanted, if it already happened, or if some stupid pathing error or similar glitch is making them just stand around picking their nose. The way they tried to, or not, implement the D&D initiative system just exacerbated the problem. Other Bioware games all suffer from this, ToEE did not.

The camera. Dear god the cameras. Throwing a bunch of crappy camera modes at the user is not a solution.

An unusable and ugly party inventory system, especially after the more streamlined Infinity Engine, which themselves could use some work. Whispers of a console version add fuel to the fire here.

And some more I am probably forgetting. I will take what I can get, but right now I don't get much of a BG vibe, just a slightly upgraded NWN game, and I wanted so much more after all this time.

roguefrog

07-18-2008, 12:20 AM

Need More Info

Vesper

08-14-2008, 03:04 PM

So I sat in on a Dragon Age demo at GenCon today. I'll post more details later when I have more time, but in summary: Hooray! Baldur's Gate 3 is finally here! Very impressive.

Gordon Cameron

08-14-2008, 03:28 PM

The faces are a mixed bag, some featuring NWN2 syndrome,

Interestingly, I rather liked the faces in NWN2. They seemed much more proportioned and real than the ones in Oblivion. (Admittedly that's not setting the bar very high...)

Equisilus

08-14-2008, 03:57 PM

So I sat in on a Dragon Age demo at GenCon today. I'll post more details later when I have more time, but in summary: Hooray! Baldur's Gate 3 is finally here! Very impressive.

Please do post. Nice to hear that you felt it very BG-like, as that's a big plus in my books.

Kunikos

08-14-2008, 05:06 PM

Speaking of Baldur's Gate...

I've lost track: Does Bioware still have the D&D license? I'm really, really looking forward to the first 4E CRPG...but only if it's turn based.

Don't hold your breath.

Damien Neil

08-14-2008, 05:21 PM

Yeah, I know.

But I really, really, really, really don't see how you can do justice to 4E with real-time combat. The whole game is built around each character action being a significant decision point.

Case

08-14-2008, 07:36 PM

No multiplayer means its definitely not Baldur's Gate 3.

Please do post. Nice to hear that you felt it very BG-like, as that's a big plus in my books.

Sarkus

08-14-2008, 07:53 PM

No multiplayer means its definitely not Baldur's Gate 3.

There's plenty of fantasy multiplayer options out there so I don't think Dragons Age needed to fill that itch. Between MMO's and action games, it's no surprise that even when multiplayer is supported by a single player oriented RPG that only a small percentage of buyers actually take advantage of that feature.

Vesper

08-14-2008, 09:29 PM

Ok here's some initial random thoughts based on the demo I saw today. (Disclaimer: I'm running on 3 hours of sleep + being at a con all day so expect grammar/spelling/logic errors!)

The demo was a guided demo, but run by the Bioware staff about 20 minutes long. Much of the first half of the demo was watching conversation/cutscenes. The second half of the demo was several combats. Character progression was not shown at all and inventory management was shown briefly. All of the demo existed inside one city, so I have no idea as to overall scale of the game. One of the primary writers on the game made it sound that the game would be 'massive' and on scale like the Baldur's Gate games.

Graphics/Environment: Gorgeous. They were running the game in 1920x1200 (I believe) and it ran fairly well (slight pauses at time), but I'm sure it was on some monster machine. The city was highly detailed and had the illusion of being persistent. For example, a priest was giving a sermon to a bunch of army troops as the character walked by. You could stop and listen to the whole thing, or ignore it entirely. Character models had a lot of detail and good facial expressions (reminded me of characters in Mass Effect, but far more detailed).

Conversations/Cinematics: The game did an excellent job of carrying on conversations while other things were going on. It wasn't always just characters lined up talking to each other. Often, the characters would be walking along while other things happened. They kept walking regardless of how fast conversation selections were picked (allowing for pauses in conversation if you let them keep going). Obviously they are following a script at this point, but this along with changing camera angles made the game seem a lot more cinematic than Bioware's previous offerings. As mentioned above, characters are lifelike in movements and facial expressions. Conversation trees were very typical Bioware, except with seemingly more choices than "Good/Neutral/Bad." Like KOTOR and NWN, there were choices involving actions rather than speech (for example: "[Kill him and take his key]") The Bioware guys claim that this game leaves their previous mold of having 'good and evil points', now going for shades of grey. They stressed many times in the demo that choices you make will shape the entire game experience.

Combat: Imagine Baldur's Gate, except in a 3d engine that works well and isn't clunky like the NWN games. Like BG, you can pause and give every individual order or let the AI decide things as you go along. The various abilities were reminiscent of NWN or even D&D 4th edition in the number of different attacks that are available (even for non-spell classes). Animations in combat were very detailed based on the attack. A shield bash looks just like you think it would, for example. Spells were the most jaw dropping portion both in visuals and how they worked. What was most impressive to me is how spells to interact. Cast grease on an area, and enemies slip. Cast fireball and the grease ignites. Cast a blizzard-type area spell and the fire goes out. It looked like all of the spells they were using in the demo had the capability of hurting your own party members if not setup/aimed correctly.

Overall UI/etc: 4 party members max, no coop multiplayer announced at this time (not ruling it out, according to these guys). The inventory UI I saw was clean and used a typical paper-doll system. Skills were on an assignable skill-bar along the bottom of the screen.

I left the demo very impressed and anxious for this game to come out. Sure, this is largely colored by the lack of good single player RPGs in recent years, but this game looks to be outstanding. If you guys have any specific questions on things I may have seen in the demo, fire away. I may sit in on the demo again to try to get more detail.

Chris Nahr

08-15-2008, 05:11 AM

Thanks for the impressions. That sounds like an improved version of the big isometric RPGs of yore... which is exactly what I'm hoping for! No indication of a release date, I suppose?

Vesper

08-15-2008, 05:24 AM

They were noncommittal of course, but they hinted at a Q109 release (March timeframe was mentioned).

hong

08-15-2008, 06:10 AM

I thought I was finally off the PC gaming treadmill, and then they suck me back in. Sigh.

Equisilus

08-15-2008, 02:56 PM

Doesn't seem that they are showing off anything new at the conventions quite yet, but that's not necessarily bad. Thanks for the impressions, Vesper. It's more or less what I've expected from what I've heard/read/seen already.

And I think not including multiplayer is actually a step forward for a BG-like game. I think it's awesome that they are more focused and aren't trying to do too much like they did with NWN.

I've been wondering, did they show how states are being indicated on the characters that you could see (poisoned, stunned, hasted, etc)?

Derek French

08-15-2008, 03:38 PM

Series of GenCon booth setup photos, for those of you who are interested (no game shots or anything).

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29079113@N03/2715426126/

Kunikos

08-15-2008, 04:40 PM

We need screenshots of character level-up screens and inventory, stat.

Angie Gallant

08-15-2008, 05:31 PM

Series of GenCon booth setup photos, for those of you who are interested (no game shots or anything).

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29079113@N03/2715426126/

Making up for WotC no longer bringing out the castle, eh? Wish I could be there.

unbongwah

08-16-2008, 10:37 AM

A month late, but I didn't see anyone else post it, so what the hell: this one's for Angie (http://forums.bioware.com/viewpost.html?topic=639622&post=5897859&forum=84).

Angie Gallant

08-16-2008, 10:41 AM

All I have to say to that is

http://truemeaningoflife.com/images/loltwilight.jpg

Jason McMaster

08-16-2008, 03:34 PM

I interviewed David Gaider, lead writer for Dragon Age. Looks interesting.

Equisilus

08-16-2008, 03:38 PM

I interviewed David Gaider, lead writer for Dragon Age. Looks interesting.

Dave looks interesting? The interview looks interesting? The game looks interesting? Whatwhat? More info needed.

Jason McMaster

08-17-2008, 10:49 AM

Ok, I'll hit some quick points:

Written by the guy who wrote HK-47, a large portion of Baldur's Gate 2 and a lot of the games inbetween.

Combat looks cool, pretty gorey. It's an M-Rated game for sure.

There will be classes and fantasy races.

All the magic can work off of each other. For instance, in the demo, the mage lights a grease spell to create a huge burning area. Then the spell is put out by a blizzard spell.

The spell effects look really cool.

The lip sync work is pretty good and the character animation is relatively nice and pretty expressive.

No co-op or online

Very big game, but not as big as Baldur's Gate 2.

Anything else you guys want to know? Ask questions, I might be able to answer them.

Jason McMaster

08-17-2008, 10:51 AM

Oh, I have a 53 minute interview with him that I'll be transcribing sometime soon. I might listen to it and see if theres anything that would be considered bad form. If not, I'll post the mp3

Lizard_King

08-17-2008, 11:09 AM

Anything else you guys want to know? Ask questions, I might be able to answer them.

Depth of customization within classes (skill trees? points into skills directly? powers unlocked at similar rates across a class or altered by variables player controls within the class choice?)? Visual representations of customization? Impact of customization decisions within the game's combat and other core mechanisms (eg is it just a matter of taste as in Mass Effect)? Is the non-main mission content more customized than Mass Effect's interchangeable room + planet situation? Could you put the scale of the game in some kind of quantitative terms, I don't remember BG2 all that well...

Thanks.

Jason McMaster

08-17-2008, 11:44 AM

Ok, let me see.

He couldn't go into detail about the classes, but I asked him if there would be skill trees and customization, and he said yes, quite a bit. They're also doing a "origin" story kind of thing where your choices impact your character.

Visually there wasn't enough to actually see to be able to tell. I mean, you can put on different armor, etc... and it would change your look.

The customization isn't a matter of taste, it seems to effect the game and how it is played. From speaking at length with David, he said that the idea (and why it's single player) was to make the player feel like a part of the world. What they're trying for is that if you play the game as a dwarf, it feels custom built FOR a dwarf so much that you might think it was designed with that race in mind, but if you play it with another race it feels custom-built for them as well.

The side quests weren't really discussed in any sort of detail as they were still building the quests in.

As for scale, BG2 was ungodly huge. I asked if he had an idea of play time, and he really didn't but said it would be larger than the last few games they made by a good bit.

Few other things: They're shooting for Q1 09 but we all know how that goes. So far it's only PC but they're talking about it. It's being developed specifically FOR the pc though, if that makes everyone feel better. They're considering a tool kit eventually for player made adventures. The back-story, or what I heard of it, for the game is pretty neat.

One thing we spoke at length about is how he wants to make the games dialog and characters seem as natural as possible. Since you're from that world, your character shouldn't have to ask questions to NPCs about everything. Instead, they're trying to make the learning more natural.

I'll keep trying to think of other stuff.

Lizard_King

08-17-2008, 12:06 PM

Ok, let me see.

He couldn't go into detail about the classes, but I asked him if there would be skill trees and customization, and he said yes, quite a bit. They're also doing a "origin" story kind of thing where your choices impact your character.

That sounds like good stuff, particularly when I connect it to your later statements about the effects of those decisions on the game world.

Visually there wasn't enough to actually see to be able to tell. I mean, you can put on different armor, etc... and it would change your look.
Is there a character designer or are you just putting together potato heads? I actually prefer the latter if it's well done, but I know the trend nowadays is a thousand little variables incrementally differentiating between ugly characters.

Is that design static, or can it be modified during the story by things explicitly in the player's control (eg barber shop) or by events in the story and character stats(Fable-like)?
The armor and weapon being displayed is essential, of course, depending on the designs. Hopefully, there's a lot more to build on here than in Mass Effect's generic multicolor armor swapping.

The side quests weren't really discussed in any sort of detail as they were still building the quests in.
I look forward to hearing about that. It's always ultimately where I spend most of my time in these games.

Few other things: They're shooting for Q1 09 but we all know how that goes. So far it's only PC but they're talking about it. It's being developed specifically FOR the pc though, if that makes everyone feel better. They're considering a tool kit eventually for player made adventures. The back-story, or what I heard of it, for the game is pretty neat.
I'm glad you're enthused about it. What little I've seen has been less than inspiring. Don't judge a game by its crappy exploding tower trailer, I guess.

One thing we spoke at length about is how he wants to make the games dialog and characters seem as natural as possible. Since you're from that world, your character shouldn't have to ask questions to NPCs about everything. Instead, they're trying to make the learning more natural.

Interesting. I always hate skimming through that stuff. Hopefully they won't go for the Morrowind "read some books" approach in this sort of thing.

I'll keep trying to think of other stuff.
Thanks again. I know the biggest Mass Effect fan in our house (my wife) is really struggling with the fantasy setting as presented so far, and I hope this game ends up being something she can get into as well.

Aeon221

08-17-2008, 12:19 PM

Is there a character designer or are you just putting together potato heads? I actually prefer the latter if it's well done, but I know the trend nowadays is a thousand little variables incrementally differentiating between ugly characters.

I can't stand the slider approach. Billions and billions of sliders, and all I do is hit the random face button and take the first face that pops because I can't be bothered to sit there buggering about with a bunch of eyebrow configurations.

I wish more games copied Guild Wars' character generation style, where you pick a hairstyle and hair color, a face and skin color, and your height. That's about all the customization I need.

Lizard_King

08-17-2008, 12:24 PM

I can't stand the slider approach. Billions and billions of sliders, and all I do is hit the random face button and take the first face that pops because I can't be bothered to sit there buggering about with a bunch of eyebrow configurations.

I wish more games copied Guild Wars' character generation style, where you pick a hairstyle and hair color, a face and skin color, and your height. That's about all the customization I need.

The genre peaked early with Dark Queen of Krynn, which clearly showed the advantage of offering forty or so predrawn sprites (that rocked down to the last &*$^& kender) to choose from vs the comparable Pools of Darkness "assemble your own generic character" approach. The technology has advanced, but the logic of having character designers do the heavy lifting for you hasn't changed.

Anaxagoras

08-17-2008, 12:27 PM

I wish more games copied Guild Wars' character generation style, where you pick a hairstyle and hair color, a face and skin color, and your height. That's about all the customization I need.

Yeah. I'm the same way, except I care even less about customization. Just let me create a character with a ridiculous hairdo and a stupid skin color & I'm a happy camper.

(I'll take the bright green dwarf with the pig tails please. Hold the beard.)

Robert Sharp

08-17-2008, 12:32 PM

The customization isn't a matter of taste, it seems to effect the game and how it is played. From speaking at length with David, he said that the idea (and why it's single player) was to make the player feel like a part of the world. What they're trying for is that if you play the game as a dwarf, it feels custom built FOR a dwarf so much that you might think it was designed with that race in mind, but if you play it with another race it feels custom-built for them as well.

This is one of the best things I've ever heard in my life. That will do so much for replayability. I might have to create 5 different characters and play them all at the same time to see all the different paths.

Munin

08-17-2008, 12:41 PM

I actually find it sounds exceptionally meaningless at this point, sort of like a hollow PR bullet point ("An UNIQUE and DIFFERENT experience EACH time!") since I can't quite imagine what "custom built" is supposed to mean, but then again, I have faith in Bioware.

Jason McMaster

08-17-2008, 12:43 PM

This is one of the best things I've ever heard in my life. That will do so much for replayability. I might have to create 5 different characters and play them all at the same time to see all the different paths.

It's funny you mention building the different characters, because one thing David spoke about was how he was one of those guys who played the beginning of Baldur's Gate 2 like 40 times trying different builds. He said he was pleased when a modder came out with a way to skip the BG2 intro levels so that he'd never have to see them again.

Oh, one thing I remember from the demo is that when some of the characters came inside from combat they still had blood and the such on them. I think that was as much of a gradual environment change that I saw. I don't think we'll see scars like fable, but it's something. The weather effects looked pretty nice.

One thing I think that Bioware did themselves a disservice with is showing the Dragon Age trailer without people knowing the story background. It's much cooler once you have an idea of what's happening. As far as the first few areas of a game go, it seems to throw you into some serious action after the setup.

One thing I have to say, though, is that I love games. Sometimes I get excited about a game because of an interview or a demo because the people I'm dealing with are very proud of their products and excited as well. However, I'll stick by this one and say that I think it'll be one of the better BioWare products. They've been in development for five years or so and seem to have developed a pretty cool looking system.

It really does look like Baldur's Gate with an attractive 3D engine.

roguefrog

08-17-2008, 12:51 PM

So far it's only PC but they're talking about it. It's being developed specifically FOR the pc though, if that makes everyone feel better.

That is really what counts. I can't imagine other developers that have tasted the significantly larger number of sales that comes with console success doing this.

Robert Sharp

08-17-2008, 12:52 PM

You're killing me here, Jason. I'm going to have to stop reading this thread now. I've now heard everything I need to know to convince me to buy this game on day one. So now I just have to avoid all spoilers, including gameplay, classes, races, skills, etc. I'm going into this one clean. But I'll have to wait like 9 months before I can play it!

Aeon221

08-17-2008, 01:08 PM

The genre peaked early with Dark Queen of Krynn, which clearly showed the advantage of offering forty or so predrawn sprites (that rocked down to the last &*$^& kender) to choose from vs the comparable Pools of Darkness "assemble your own generic character" approach. The technology has advanced, but the logic of having character designers do the heavy lifting for you hasn't changed.

I agree, I really like the predrawns. Honestly though, I'd be just as happy with only one option if the artists got to use that face to build the character up -- stress lines, scars, circles under the eyes. Stuff to make the character feel like a growing changing critter.

hong

08-17-2008, 06:08 PM

Did they get Jennifer Hale in?

hong

08-17-2008, 06:31 PM

Did they get Jennifer Hale in?
THIS IS IMPORTANT DAMMIT

Vic Davis

08-17-2008, 06:45 PM

Nope, sadly she's off on a Hex Girls World Tour.

hong

08-17-2008, 07:29 PM

*cry*

Chris Nahr

08-18-2008, 07:28 AM

Jason McMaster

08-18-2008, 07:31 AM

It's being developed primarily for PC though, the console part will be later after the main game is done, I'd imagine.

Shadari

08-18-2008, 07:53 AM

Yeah, it should be the console guys that commence with the outrage over PC-style interface, small text, etc. and gameplay that doesn't hold their little hands. ;)

Jason McMaster

08-18-2008, 07:55 AM

You know, to be honest, I'm not sure how they'll put this game on a console. It's so naturally designed for mouse/keyboard that it might be difficult to control with a gamepad

Shadari

08-18-2008, 07:56 AM

That's what I'm still saying about FPS and RTS. But I guess I'm just a stubborn dinosaur or something. :(

Jason McMaster

08-18-2008, 07:57 AM

yeah, I can handle FPS on a console but it took a lot of getting used to, I can't even imagine RTS (other than maybe Monsters, but it's so amazingly hybrid that you can't REALLY call it RTS).

This one, from what I've seen, controls like BG2

Matt Perkins

08-18-2008, 08:33 AM

No Jennifer Hale? This game is going to blow!

Kunikos

08-18-2008, 09:15 AM

Toolset is confirmed for DA (http://dragonage.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=646078&forum=135):

I just got the email (sent to people who subscribed to World Builders' newsletter) -- W00t! Long story short, the toolset for DA is confirmed. Looks like a blend of NWN1 and NWN2 GUI-wise, with the one (expected) hitch that you can't create areas in the toolset itself. Wicked sweet!

Edit: The original comment about area design was just because the ability to create areas was conspicuously absent from the list of features in the newsletter announcement.

unbongwah

08-18-2008, 11:00 AM

Any word on if and when the DA sourcebooks which they had at Gen-Con (http://dragonage.bioware.com/_commonext/images/dragonage/communityblog/booth_02_1024x768.jpg) will go on sale to the general public? I skimmed their forums, Amazon, and eBay - came up empty.

Jason McMaster

08-18-2008, 11:15 AM

I didn't think to ask about any add-ons or special edition stuff.

I also meant to ask for free stuff. I DO like free stuff.

noun

08-18-2008, 11:29 AM

Bioware says (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=217002) DragonAge coming to PC early in 2009, and there definitely will be console versions, probably later in the year. Commence outrage about consolified user interface, etc.

Well, which is more likely to happen? 1) Bioware will create two different interfaces, one to take advantage of mouse and keyboard setup and one to take advantage of a 10 button controller, or 2) Bioware will create a simplified interface that works about the same on both PCs and consoles?

I'm not outraged, but I'm amused that the only way they could get this published was to develop for consoles as well.

Edit: I suppose a "Dark Alliance" game is possible, similar to what they did with Baldur's Gate.

Wallapuctus

08-18-2008, 11:59 AM

That announcement potentially saved me thousands of dollars. Hooray!

Shadari

08-18-2008, 12:06 PM

It's a damn shame people still think a good gaming PC costs thousands of dollars. I guess that's just another reason why consoles are a perfect match for ignorant people.

Jason McMaster

08-18-2008, 12:07 PM

a GOOD gaming PC does cost over a grand at least. you can get a serviceable one for less than a thousand though.

Shadari

08-18-2008, 12:08 PM

If you're buying the whole thing, then maybe.

Jason McMaster

08-18-2008, 12:09 PM

Well, yeah. But really your costs start to come down to video cards and RAM at that point.

Me, I just put one together every 2 or 3 years. I did one earlier this year, from scratch (except monitor and vid card) for around 1600. Now, I always go a little overboard, so that's part of it. I like to do that to avoid motherboard issues.

Shadari

08-18-2008, 12:12 PM

I think buying a new system every ~5 years with a major upgrade in between will suffice for 95% of the gaming one can do on a PC. That's pretty much what I do.

Jason McMaster

08-18-2008, 12:14 PM

Yeah, I should say that I also recycle mine to servers and other tasks around my house and in my colo cabinet, so I guess I'm kind of the extreme. I also review games which is particularly unforgiving when it comes to hardware.

Shadari

08-18-2008, 12:15 PM

Yeah, I buy new computers more often than every 5 years too. I used to give the older ones to my wife and upgrade them for her. They'd still be more than serviceable.

Kunikos

08-18-2008, 12:18 PM

Well, yeah. But really your costs start to come down to video cards and RAM at that point.

Not really. Most of the best price-to-performance or sweet-spot components are roughly the same price, roughly between $150-200. PSU, motherboard, CPU, RAM, video card, hard drive, case, and monitor (although to be fair in comparison you must omit the monitor since nobody includes the price of a TV when talking about the cost of a console). The optical drive is the cheapest component (unless you want Blu-ray, then it's back up to the same range).

Jason McMaster

08-18-2008, 12:23 PM

I must ask. The case?

unbongwah

08-18-2008, 12:23 PM

It's a damn shame people still think a good gaming PC costs thousands of dollars. I guess that's just another reason why consoles are a perfect match for ignorant people.
Besides, smart people know that consoles are just a shameless scam (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2003/08/25/).

Wallapuctus

08-18-2008, 12:32 PM

Well Shadri, as an ignorant console gamer, let me clarify my ignorance.

My PC is 3 years old. I bought it new for $500, so you can imagine the gaming potential it has. Still, it does every single task I ask of it quite well EXCEPT gaming. That's why I have an Xbox.

Shadari

08-18-2008, 12:38 PM

Well Shadri, as an ignorant console gamer, let me clarify my ignorance.
Shadri was a sprite from Utlima Online, IIRC. :)

Also, someone around here used to always call me Shadarj, who I think is a member of Earth, Wind and Fire.

PS: Of course, all of the above are better than shadarr, who is nothing but a... er, nevermind. ^^v

Sarkus

08-18-2008, 12:38 PM

I'm not outraged, but I'm amused that the only way they could get this published was to develop for consoles as well.

I'm not sure this is the case. I can imagine that DA:Origins was PC only until a few months ago, to be honest. Once EA took control, I'm sure the console discussion became more significant.

So, I'm hopefull that this game will be just fine as a PC game. If it does well enough, we won't have to worry about it being "consolized."

Rock8man

08-18-2008, 12:49 PM

Yeah, I buy new computers more often than every 5 years too. I used to give the older ones to my wife and upgrade them for her. They'd still be more than serviceable.

I try to do the same, but they never last that long. I always have some component always go bad. Sometimes it's the video card, sometimes it's the memory, sometimes it's the power supply. Sometimes the solution is just to replace the part that went bad, if I can get to the proper diagnosis (which isn't always possible). Other times, let's say the video card that went bad was a PCI video card. And in the intervening years, the new video cards I want to replace it with are now AGP video cards, so I need to buy a new motherboard, which means I need to buy a new CPU and memory, because the old ones won't work with the new motherboard. And so on and so forth. This happens to me a lot.

I always go in with the same plan as you: get a good PC for around $1000-$1200, make it last five years. But always something goes wrong. The PC never lasts the whole 5 years.

For example my current PC I bought almost 2 years ago now. And it worked fine until 3 months ago, and now whenever I run any modern high-end game, the games start exhibiting weird polygons that seem to jut out of models in the game, extending to infinity. And these polygons actually seem to be in the game and they cast shadows. This happens in Supreme Commander and some other games. And I know that once I see things like that happening, that my computer is about to have a hard-crash soon. My potential diagnosis: My 7900GT is going bad, and when it overheats, which it only does for graphically intensive games, it starts doing things like this.

So theoretically in this particular case, I should be fine with just a graphics card update. But who knows? Maybe I diagnosed the problem wrong, and getting a new graphics card won't solve the problem at all.

My point is that your statement is fine in theory. I always wish my system upgrades would work like that as well, but in reality it just never works out that way for me. I just end up spending a lot more on PCs because parts always fail, and other parts need to be upgraded as well, and I do end up spending thousands, even though I build my own PCs, for the most part.

EDIT: My best guess is that you do a much better job building PCs with more cooling, more fan ventilation, etc. Most of my problems probably result from heating problems. I do try to put in at least 2 fans in the case (in addition to the CPU fan and graphics card fans), but maybe that's not enough. Maybe I should stop trying to build my own PCs and next time get one from Dell or Gateway or something. Perhaps spending closer to $2000 will actually save me money in the long run.

Slainte Mhath

08-18-2008, 01:12 PM

I got to preview DA at GenCon as well and chatted up the Bioware guys a bit about it. Funny side note, they DID have free stuff, a few t-shirts the first day and a bunch of posters and 20-sided dice. However a second lot of mostly t-shirts and other assorted goodies got held up in customs and never made it to the show as far as I had heard by Sunday. They raffled off a small sheild signed by a bunch of the dev team on Sunday. The booth was truly impressive, from the lattice-work roof to the blood splattered walls, wooden benches and medieval decor (giant flatscreen notwithstanding). =)

As to the game, in a word, awesome. Imagine Oblivion's graphics cranked to 11. Realistic looking faces that actually lip-sync the dialog. Environments with intricate details, and not just on what's in front of you, but the ground, ceilings, skies, buildings, background characters, everything in sight. This game is going to require a beast of a machine to run in full graphic splendor.

Aside from the pretty, it also features the dialog trees Bioware is famous for. If you thought the KotOR games were wordy, you'll need your reading glasses and dictionary for Dragon Age. Fully half the 20 minute demo was dialog. Cutscenes mix with the dialog trees to create very fluid semi-scripted (based on your choices) moments. As part of the demo we were shown one particular battle scene that was happening "off camera" as far as our character was concerned, but the outcome of which was dependant on our actions. It was nothing short of epic looking.

Combat was fairly fluid and practical, but also pauseable and micromanageable so if you loved NWN2's pause, order and watch results system you'll really dig DA's combat. As mentioned by several folks already, the spells are cool in the way they interact and have an aspect of strategy with them. It was specifically mentioned that many spells can interact in interesting ways, and that you can learn some of those "combos" by watching other spell casters in combat.

What struck me as most impressive though was how everything was centered around you. With all the dialog, plot and cutscenes it seems much more focused than say Oblivion where you could run around for hours and not know what you were supposed to be doing. It's not a highly detailed world for the sake of having a highly detailed world, it's that way because it wants to tell you a story, have you be a part of that story, and allow you to influence the outcome of that story. To me that kind of immersion is the hallmark of a great RPG.

My only real gripe after the demo and discussions is the beefy machine requirements (if you're not on top of the line hardware right now, forget about high detail mode) and the lack of any sort of multiplayer. The latter won't be an issue though if the single player experience throughout is half as good as what I saw in the demo.

stusser

08-18-2008, 01:13 PM

Well they just announced it would be released for current-gen consoles after the PC, so if you can wait you won't have to worry about the system requirements.

PC D0MEDNESS AT CRITICAL LEVELS!

Derek French

08-18-2008, 03:10 PM

Kunikos

08-18-2008, 03:23 PM

They're making a PnP RPG out of it? o.O

Sarkus

08-18-2008, 04:40 PM

Well they just announced it would be released for current-gen consoles after the PC, so if you can wait you won't have to worry about the system requirements.

PC D0MEDNESS AT CRITICAL LEVELS!

Not saying it's not true, but they (i.e. Bioware and EA) haven't announced anything. What you are reporting came from a magazine preview. Of course, magazines never get anything wrong, right?

To be honest, I doubt the impact on this first game is going to be very great. I'm willing to bet this was a late decision imposed on them by EA and not something that was planned from the start. It may impact later games in the series, however.

unbongwah

08-18-2008, 04:59 PM

Sourcebooks? What sourcebooks?
I was told that the big-ass books on display at Gen-Con were some sort of sourcebook (or artbook or whatever); if that was not the case, I was sorely misinformed...

Sarkus

08-20-2008, 01:02 PM

There's finally been some comment on the Eurogamer story over on the official DA:O boards. Basically, the devs there say they don't know anything about a console version. The PR guy finally weighed in as well:

Ok, ONCE AGAIN, this is not really news. Greg Z mentioned back at E3 that BioWare is investigating console versions after the PC game is done. This is the same as what Dan was recently quoted as saying by Eurogamer. The DA:O team is focusing all of their efforts on making the best PC game that they can. Once that is done, then consideration for some console version or whatever can be made.

Do not expect any details from any Devs about a console version because there aren't any to be had and won't be any to be had for many months yet. We have said before that DA:O is targetting spring 2009 for release and a console version will be after that at some point, if it does indeed occur.

You're welcome to keep discussing this topic, but don't turn this into "The PC version (or console version) will be superior because..." or this will get closed. And don't expect any details from any Devs as we don't have any to give you.

So, they appear to be saying that things haven't changed from the earlier release that they were going to consider doing something for the consoles. The idea that this game is being developed with console port in mind seems to be an incorrect interpretation by Eurogamer.

stusser

08-20-2008, 01:08 PM

I dunno, it was the first time I ever heard of a console DA release. Keep in mind that they never breathed a word of a PC port for jade empire, KOTOR, or mass effect during development or even for months after release. They even actively denied it for jade empire, as I recall. Possibly due to contractual obligations, who knows, but there it is.

Sarkus

08-20-2008, 01:14 PM

I dunno, it was the first time I ever heard of a console DA release. Keep in mind that they never breathed a word of a PC port for jade empire, KOTOR, or mass effect during development or even for months after release. Possibly due to contractual obligations, who knows, but there it is.

Back when E3 started they talked about making console games in the same setting. Bioware views the DA setting as a "franchise" where they can do a lot of different things. So, the idea of an action game or something like that would make sense.

Also, who pays for a PC exclusive? Maybe if MS was the publisher, but this is an EA published title. Even if MS had paid for exclusivity, we'd know by now due to legal requirements MS has to follow as a public company.

As I said earlier in this thread, I think that Bioware intended this as a PC exclusive franchise up until they were acquired by EA. Now EA is asking them to broaden the market they are going after. It's very likely too late to matter for this first game, but future titles may very well be impacted.

Jason McMaster

08-20-2008, 01:19 PM

As I said earlier in this thread, I think that Bioware intended this as a PC exclusive franchise up until they were acquired by EA. Now EA is asking them to broaden the market they are going after. It's very likely too late to matter for this first game, but future titles may very well be impacted.

I absolutely agree. Talking with David, it seemed like he was under the impression that it was PC only, or at least PC targeted.

unbongwah

08-20-2008, 01:19 PM

Keep in mind that they never breathed a word of a PC port for jade empire, KOTOR, or mass effect during development or even for months after release.
JE and ME were published by Microsoft: not surprising MS would want them to keep mum about the PC versions in order to maintain console exclusivity for as long as possible. KOTOR was published by LucasArts, which had announced the PC version by early 2002 (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/starwarsknightsoftor/news.html?sid=2851710&mode=news).

stusser

08-20-2008, 01:25 PM

Good catch. And the EA thing seems plausible.

Chris Nahr

08-26-2008, 01:06 AM

hong

08-29-2008, 09:08 AM

Nope, sadly she's off on a Hex Girls World Tour.
Crap, you weren't kidding. I only just now found out that they're not doing VO's for the main character, unlike in Mass Effect.

Oi Bio, what's this bullsheet about not wanting to put a voice in people's heads? I want you to put a voice in my head. I'm begging you to put a voice in my head. A very specific voice in fact.

Kevin Grey

08-29-2008, 09:19 AM

Grim noblemen grimly discussing their grim fate in this grim Leipzig trailer (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/25/dragon-age-oh-the-acting/), followed by battle scenes shamelessly copied from Lord of the Rings.

Man, I was hoping that they would do it like Mass Effect with full voice acting for the protagonist. Also, I think ME gets it right and given you a non-optional name. It's just too awkward having all kinds of "And we'll send our new Grey Warden there" all of the time. Being able to customize the protagonist's name works much better when the vast majority of the game is just text.

Derek French

08-29-2008, 10:17 AM

I understand where this sort of argument comes from, but at the same time I would caution you to be wary of what you ask for.

For Mass Effect, having a single voice for the female or male Sheppard character is not such a big deal -- we are talking about a specific human military character, one who is not really the player's own. No matter what choices you make, to some extant you are always making them on behalf of Sheppard.

If the goal is to have more customization for the character, does it follow that we should then be also trying to limit their options in favor of a more cinematic experience? Dialogue-wise, the player character is the single largest character in the game -- having even one option alone per gender/race combination would be an extraordinary amount of space (disregarding the cost of such recording alone).

Making a game more cinematic, after all, is not always necessarily the goal. You may have liked a game that was more cinematic, such as Mass Effect, but be careful of placing that same expectation on all other games. A more cinematic experience is going to come along with a lot of other trade-offs that you may not be aware you would be getting as part of the package, things that you may not want.

Or maybe I'm wrong and everyone will miss the Mass Effect style of dialogue and we'll be doing it exactly that way in DA2. I suppose it remains to be seen.
and

In BGII (I know I know, this isn't BG etc) you had the option of selecting a sound set. In that game you didn't get voice for the conversations but you still got a sounds et for your character for his/her various grunts and battle cries etc, can we expect something similar in Dragon Age?
Yes, you will have a selection of soundsets to pick from.
(note: what the hell? I am getting the "message too short" error trying to post this. That scroll bar to the right is pretty small, so I doubt this is too short.)