IL-2 for the Xbox 360

[awdougherty]

http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/39163/IL-2-Sturmovik-Birds-of-Prey-Trailer-Announcement

Is this just an action arcade game or are they really trying to get the heart of IL-2 on the XBox? Could be interesting if it's the latter.

[Robert Sharp]

Woah! That's completely unexpected. I actually hope it's more arcadey than the PC version, for certain. It's too much control/buttons for the console. But this could be a day one purchase for me, which is rare.

[awdougherty]

What I'm hoping for is an IL-2 "for the rest of us." I own the 1946 edition of the game but haven't gotten too far with it. I like flight sims, but am definitely way more casual than most flight sims require. I was able to get further with the re-release of Falcon 4 (Allied Force) because the cockpits were clickable, allowing me to skip the 300 keyboard short cuts.

Anyway, here's hoping this turns out well and includes online co-op to boot.

[spiffy]

Unbelievable. We wait three years and counting for the successor to IL2, Storm of War, and get maybe a handful of in-progress photos of their computer moniters. Finally the first glimpse of what is obviously the new engine winds up being a teaser for xbox! I'm .. actually quite a bit angry right now.

(Yes, I own an xbox, but I can't imagine playing a game like this without trackIR and a joystick.)

[Rock8man]

I really hope they support the Ace Edge Flight Stick and throttle (which came with Ace Combat 6's limited edition). I love playing Ace Combat 6 and Project Sylpheed with that, and I wish more games supported the flight stick. This game would be so perfect for it.

[Jarmo]

I wonder what this game is like on the Nintendo DS.

The trailer has the second most beautiful airplane in the world in action, Supermarine Spitfire Mk IIb. The most beautiful is of course Supermarine Spitfire Mk IIa.

[Ezdaar]

I don't see why they couldn't put out a hardcore sim on a console. Package a HOTAS with it, add some TrackIR support and you're all set.

[Charles]

No reason why you can't do flight sims on consoles. I think it's a great place for it. After all, you don't have to have the input devices for it, there's plenty of ways of abstracting the process. Off the top of my head, you could have a button for free look / interaction in the cockpit, and you actually have to hit the correct buttons/levers.

And on top of that I'm sure they can support flightsticks if they want to.

[Marcin]

I would be very interested in this as well. I don't play games that require a controller very often on the PC, so it's always a dance of cables, desk space, drivers and what have you to get a sim up and running. An alternative where a controller is default seems obviously better.

[spiffy]

Unless TrackIR or an equivalent is made available for console (and they've said they're looking into it), there really is no way simulate the immersion of actually using your head to look around. Freelook, padlocking etc are all attempts at making your screen more than a just a 35 degree viewing angle porthole, but they all feel clumsy and poor by comparison.

I absolutely agree you can port a sim to xbox if smartly done. Multiplayer matching alone makes it worthwhile to attempt. But for me, having the proper control input is half the experience. Until real planes (and cars!) are flown/driven with gamepads, I won't feel comfortable or happy playing a sim with one. I respect people want something more easily accessible and am happy 1C is broadening their fanbase, however, so I hope it works out.

[IndridCold]

Wow - looks phenomenal. Models and scenery look outstanding.

I hope they keep that muted brownish filter in the game.... I really like that 'Band of Brothers' look that it has.

[Charles]

Unless TrackIR or an equivalent is made available for console (and they've said they're looking into it), there really is no way simulate the immersion of actually using your head to look around. Freelook, padlocking etc are all attempts at making your screen more than a just a 35 degree viewing angle porthole, but they all feel clumsy and poor by comparison.

I dunno. Second analog stick would work pretty good for this, IMO, but then again, I'm not a big flight sim guy.

How does TrackIR work? If I turn my head, the tv doesn't move. You just turn your head and keep your eyes locked on the screen?

[spiffy]

Yeah, exactly. Your head movements are translated into the game, but magnified, so that if I turn my head 5 degrees, in the game it'll turn 30 (or whatever sensitivity you want). Your eyes stay focused on the screen (which is confusing at first, but quickly becomes second nature.) Once you're used to the system, its quite honestly the most immersive thing introduced to gaming, ever. You can look anywhere at any time as fast as your head can turn, and because turning your head is a natural thing to do, it's one less layer of complication to worry about. Imagine, driving in GTA, if instead of thumsticking your view everywhere (and have it snap back to origin when you reelase), you can simply angle your head naturally and take in views without thinking about it, or tracking a car swerving out of your FOV , naturally following him with your head, steering the car into your line of vision.

It's one of those things that has made me buy games that support it, just because it feels so right.

[JMR]

So Oleg is tapping into the console market for a new source of revenue while still retaining development for PC combat flight sims? I've often cried myself to sleep at night wondering why EA couldn't retain Jane's while still raking in the gold with their other franchises. Sure the ROI is nowhere near as lucrative but there's still a market out there godammit! We're still important! =(

Charles, check out these YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=track+ir&search_type=) videos to get an idea of how it works. Once you get accustomed to using it you'll wonder how you ever got along with it. It's truly an indispensable accessory for flight sims, combat sims, racing sims, and to a lesser extent FPS like Armed Assault when playing as infantry.

[Rock8man]

Yeah, I was wondering the same thing as Charles, about how TrackIR works.

EDIT: Cross-post, you already explained it. I see! Sounds pretty cool.


Until real planes (and cars!) are flown/driven with gamepads, I won't feel comfortable or happy playing a sim with one.

I'm really happy with Blazing Angel 2's "Sim" controls so far as well. They use the same control scheme as radio controlled airplanes (left thumbstick for going up and down, rolling the plane, right thumbstick for left and right rudder and up and down on the throttle). I know radio-controlled planes aren't what you meant when you said that, but it's actually a pretty nice way to control a plane that actually flies with no pilot in it, and its a good way to fly flight sims in console games too.

Now, I'll grant you that it's still more fun sometimes to use a HOTAS setup. On the PC I resisted for years in buying a HOTAS setup, because I kept thinking "I already have a joystick and keyboard, why would I want to restrict what my left hand does by putting it on a throttle? But now that I'm using a HOTAS setup on my 360 for Ace Combat 6 and Project Sylpheed, I can see that it's just a blast to play that way. It really helps the immersion and fun-factor.

[Ezdaar]

I dunno. Second analog stick would work pretty good for this, IMO, but then again, I'm not a big flight sim guy.

How does TrackIR work? If I turn my head, the tv doesn't move. You just turn your head and keep your eyes locked on the screen?


There's not really a substitute for TrackIR or a head tracking system once you've used it. Having said that though, there is absolutely no reason it could not work on a console.

I would think that flightsim developers would be very eager to get on consoles. They get a fixed hardware platform, a huge audience and the ability to standardize online play. Most hardcore flightsimmers wouldn't think twice about throwing down the money for a console and HOTAS for the console if a good sim came out on it and the non hardcore people would be happy with just a regular controller.

edit: Remember that video with the guy who strapped a Wiimote to his head and moved around? TrackIR has been doing that for years.

[scharmers]

Ace Combat + IL-2:1946 would make me a very happy camper indeed. So happy this would be a 360 purchase title for me.

As for TrackIR - I'd take one of those over a HOTAS, hands down. That's how good it is. Too bad I can't seem to make myself play sims any more. :(

[Podunk]

Music by Jeremy Soule. No wonder it sounded so badass.

[salwon]

I like the idea of any attempt to make a flight sim that's actually accessible to people like me (morons). The last one I played thoroughly was Tie Fighter, and lord knows I've tried since then. Air battles on the 360 sounds pretty good to me.

[Bahimiron]

The last one I played thoroughly was Tie Fighter, and lord knows I've tried since then. Air battles on the 360 sounds pretty good to me.

I wish someone would point out to MS and Lucas that Tie Fighter as a XBLA game would be freaking huge.

The XBLA Wing Commander and Battlestar Galactica games have been unholy abortions. Cures for fun. A real space dogfighter would be huge, though.

[salwon]

Holy crap, I never even thought of that. Too Bad, though. (http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?p=1368562)

[Lum]

I find it somewhat ironic that nowhere in that trailer could be seen an IL-2.

[McBain]

I like the idea of any attempt to make a flight sim that's actually accessible to people like me (morons). The last one I played thoroughly was Tie Fighter, and lord knows I've tried since then. Air battles on the 360 sounds pretty good to me.

I hate to say this, but I agree.

I just can't get in to realistic flight sims. About the most realistic thing I can handle is Aces of the Pacific.

[spiffy]

I find it somewhat ironic that nowhere in that trailer could be seen an IL-2.

I think they're hoping for brand name recognition.. the name has been out there a looong time.

[DennyA]

Wow. The IL-2 rivet counters have to be apoplectic about this.

[JMR]

Amazingly things are pretty calm over at SimHQ and 1C's forums. The biggest concern seems to stem from the lack of BOB updates and whether or not the project is still a go.

Anyway, here's a good one to snack on.


Hmmmm. I find the color pretty appalling. The landscape looks more like Northern California in the summer---everything baked brown, washed out---does not look like the rich greens of an English summer at all. Airplanes look like they have been in North Africa. Hurricane MkI with the long Rotol spinner of the MkII?! Spitfire IB with 20mm, hmmm---only one squadron had these. Fuselage stripes are ca. autumn 1940. Is this scenario supposed to be winter? I see the Ubi forum is down. The 1C forum is going apeshit with speculation. Even Oleg's No1 fanboy, Chivas, is whining, whimpering, and puling for information after trashing others who complained of no info for months. In sum, I am not impressed by 1C's company policy. Russians---secretive snooks!

This does not look at all like BOB the SOW---it does look like a console game. The landscape does not look like the fabulous stuff we have seen in the genuine BOB videos, and the airplanes do not look like the extremely authentic airplanes in the genuine BOB videos.

[moss_icon]

What I'm hoping for is an IL-2 "for the rest of us." I own the 1946 edition of the game but haven't gotten too far with it. I like flight sims, but am definitely way more casual than most flight sims require.

Same boat. I have no problem with Microsoft Flight Sim but the majority of combat stuff just crushes me mercilessly. I can barely even get off the ground in 1946. Except one time I flew a mission in bi-planes for the Finns against some Russian bombers, and I think we won. I might even have shot one down.

[JMR]

Have you guys tried playing IL2 with relaxed realism settings?

[Jag]

I hate to say this, but I agree.

I just can't get in to realistic flight sims. About the most realistic thing I can handle is Aces of the Pacific.

European Air War was a great successor to AOP. Nothing in flight sims has grabbed me the way those 2 games did. Sort of like Tie Fighter and space sims.

[DennyA]

Cursed Firefox ate my wonderful tretise on how to create a combat sim that would bring back the disenchanted and still appeal to the hardcore. Rather than retype it, I'll just offer to actually build the sim for anyone who can get me a few mil in venture capital.

[spiffy]

Have you guys tried playing IL2 with relaxed realism settings?

Aye. Anyone wanting an easy time of it can pretty much turn everything difficult off, hold the trigger down, and have planes exploding all around you. I think IL2 gets a bad rep because of just how difficult you can make, not how much you have to. Even after playing it for eight years, I leave certain things like complex engine management, gyro effects and wind turbulence off.

[moss_icon]

Aye. Anyone wanting an easy time of it can pretty much turn everything difficult off, hold the trigger down, and have planes exploding all around you. I think IL2 gets a bad rep because of just how difficult you can make, not how much you have to. Even after playing it for eight years, I leave certain things like complex engine management, gyro effects and wind turbulence off.

I was looking for a tutorial, and all the tutorials I could find said leave the settings as they are out of the box! I will try it without these insane options selected.

[NuclearWinter]

Preview here:
http://previews.teamxbox.com/xbox-360/1998/IL2-Sturmovik-Birds-of-Prey/p1/

Choice quote:


"But the biggest question that most people will have is, how much did they dumb the game down for the Xbox 360? The answer is: not at all. Birds of Prey includes a simulation mode that is no different than the most strict simulation mode of the original PC title. Really. The flight model has not been simplified in the least for the Xbox 360, even though it was a challenge to make it work with the Xbox 360 controller. Don’t worry, flight stick support is definitely included."

Assuming that's true, I am totally there.

[spiffy]

Here's what Oleg had to say about it. Very brief, as usual.


Hi Guys,

I have posted dev update. Sorry for so long time no see. Simply we are so very busy with Alfa BoB and preparing of source code for Korean simulator... There was still no time-room for IL-2 4.09.. sorry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbag View Post
---
Good to hear from you Oleg and good to hear the Alpha is under way. Could you comment a little bit on IL2: Birds of Prey? Could you give us some hints how it will compare with SOW?
---

We are not busy with Birds of Prey project. It is third party project under control of 1C. We just gave them full source code and did neccessary consultations.
It looks good, but not like BoB engine. BoB engine it is not modification of Il-2 engine.
Also I tested periodically BoP and would like to say that the contol of aircraft there and FM isn't like in all arcade sim-games, but control aircraft is more easy than in arcade sims... becasue the guys keeping some original physics from Il-2.

Hope I did right answers for all the buzz around it

-Oleg

[Enidigm]

In some ways Birds of Prey could be an even better game than IL-2 if they update the AI and campaign mission engine, and use the power of a single player-only game to have many more than the 20-30 planes max that would happen in IL-2. And being able to play it in glorious 1080p will be quite an enjoyable change from squinting for dots on the horizon.

IL-2 is really best in the outlying, goofy areas of WW2, where you don't have many preconceptions about how things should be. I still remember clearly that mission i flew as a Brewster Buffalo pilot in Finnish service, killing 4 planes with my guns, and ramming (taran) the final plane without wrecking my plane in the process. Flying all those dreadful varnished delta wood coffins in Soviet service was an extremely interesting thing from many points of view, but in the end the campaign mission structure never kept up with the huge numbers of planes that were constantly being added. I still think the best missions were the ones way back 5 years ago in IL-2 vanilla. The random map generator subsequently added is a pretty poor substitute as it would constantly generate brain-dead suicidal missions "now comrade, you must fly your poorly armed biplane armed with 50lbs of bombs into the heart of the enemy's airbase!"

However in multiplayer, IL-2 shines; nothing matches the pulse pounding adrenaline of a well-run IL-2 war. Flying low-level ground attack missions in the rain, watching your friends fall to flak and fire, avoiding real pilots in the clouds, ect. The real problem with IL-2 wasn't that it was hardcore but that everything outside of the flying model was so half-assed and spartan; most of the squads flying campaigns went to great lengths to simulate realistic conditions and to create missions that encouraged anything other than random deathmatch dogfighting. Another, rather large, problem was the segmentation between missions and dogfighting AI logic - if you created a respawning map, none of the AI would do anything. So no moving ships, no moving tanks, no AI pilots, ect. This meant that quite literally it would take about 2 hours between flying pregenerated missions when involving 20-30 people. Not to mention the cat-herding that goes on with that many people anyway.

[salwon]

From Joystiq (http://www.joystiq.com/2008/06/09/1c-announces-first-next-gen-titles/):


No details on the gameplay or plot of Birds of Prey, but our deductive reasoning tells us it will likely be either about fighter planes, or predatory fowl. Guesses?

Way to google, guys.