Finally! Gamespot Reviews Without The High Prices [Archive]

chet

08-10-2002, 01:42 PM

Score one for free content. You no longer need to go to gamespot to get quality gamespot writing. Instead you can go to Games Click and get quality gamespot writing as if it had been run through an english to french translator and back.

I give you Tsunami 2265.

Gamespot Paragraph 1

Tsunami 2265 begins with a schmaltzy love theme filled with ludicrous but sincerely crooned lines such as, "I see fighters coming for your heart." For an anime-inspired action game about giant robots and their human pilots, it's a promising start. Unfortunately, things go abruptly downhill from there. The designers obviously know their anime--apparently at the expense of ever having played a video game.

Gamersclick Paragraph 1

Tsunami 2265 is an anime-inspired action game about giant robots and their human pilots. A promising concept that sounded and looked like many Japanese cartoons I’ve seen. Unfortunately, things went downhill from there, and not just a little tumble, they broke every… uh... robot on the way down. The designers knew about cartoons and how to make them work, but being able to put them on a computer… Well that is another story.

Gamespot Paragraph 2

Tsunami's one other strong point is a visual technique commonly called cel shading, which uses flat-colored textures to give a game's graphics a convincingly cartoonlike appearance. The visuals feature lots of clean lines and bright colors. It can be strikingly effective in games that use it creatively, but Tsunami's visual design is so relentlessly bland that the effect loses any impact. Roughly two-thirds of the game's 13 long levels take place in virtually identical mazelike canyon corridors. Most of the rest of the environments are a variation of either blocky, characterless industrial landscapes or nondescript caves.

Gamersclick Paragraph 2

Now not everything was terrible in Tsunami, they brought cartoon effects to the computer screen none the less, which gave the game a distinct visual feeling that you don’t see very often. But the graphics are plain and they don’t keep you glued to the screen, with 13 long levels it can and does get boring.

Gamespot Paragraph 3

And that's basically Tsunami 2265--a nicely done giant robot ode to love and some potentially interesting graphics. It's hard to imagine how any other aspect of Tsunami could have seemed like a good idea, even in theory. The designers have apparently ignored many of the traditional principles of designing an interesting action game. But when you play the game, you won't get the sense that they deliberately chose not to use these principles. Instead, it almost seems like the game's designers were never aware of these simple rules in the first place.

Gamersclick Paragraph 3

Now other than Tsunami having some rather interesting graphics, and some innovative ideas. That was it, the game wasn’t able to flow like other games, the reason for this is that the developers didn’t use any of the principles to making a good game. They made a game that would have been a better concept as a Japanese anime robot-killing cartoon than a game for the everyday person to buy. Don’t get me wrong, someone in Japan may like the game, but for the rest of the world I don’t see it.

http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/reviews/0,10867,2875959,00.html
http://www.gamersclick.com/review.cfm?p=v&id=682

Good Stuff.

Chet

Anonymous

08-10-2002, 01:59 PM

somebody has a lot of time on his hands

jeep

08-10-2002, 07:14 PM

somebody has a lot of time on his hands

Since he's not updating his own website, I'd say that somebody was Chet. And the guy who paraphrased the gamespot article. And me. And you.

/jeep/

Anonymous

08-10-2002, 07:30 PM

Funny and sad. Gave me a chill as I flashbacked to teaching freshman composition. With an assignment to analyze an essay, most would hand in flat summaries using same vocabulary as the original, sans the ideas.

But everybody's got to make some money by driving traffic to their banner ads, so go for it Gamerclick! Fuck copyright, you changed it enough!

Mike Cathcart

08-10-2002, 09:10 PM

But everybody's got to make some money by driving traffic to their banner ads, so go for it Gamerclick! Fuck copyright, you changed it enough!

Because, as we all know, the killer content that all of the game sites are fighting for is the ultimate Tsunami 2265 review...

Alan Au

08-11-2002, 01:58 AM

[EDIT] Post removed because it's lame. Sorry for wasting your time.

- Alan

Anonymous

08-11-2002, 04:27 AM

Plus, they are reviews of the exact same game.

Dude, he's using the the exact same words and phrases in the exact same order.

chet

08-11-2002, 08:51 AM

Alan, thanks for the early morning laugh. But just in case you were serious and not pulling my leg.

Hmm, okay, we'll keep an eye on Nicholas' writing. Then again, I don't have access to Gamespot's for-pay stuff, so maybe I had better leave the journalism watchdog stuff to Chet.

It is not in the pay section and I quoted the paragraphs in question, but way to start right in with the flimsy excuses. And just in case this high tech board confuses you where I wrote Gamersclick Paragraph 3 and then phpBB inserted the word quote; that's one of the quotes I am talking about. If you notice, I just quoted you. So the content in question is actually on this board. Now I don't know how Mark has the forums setup, so maybe you can't see the gamespot quotes unless you pay, but I just assumed they were available to be viewed by everyone.

My guess is that Nicholas read other reviews and was influenced accordingly. Plus, they are reviews of the exact same game.
While this would excuse using the same game title. Each of the first three paragraphs have the exact same theme and use some of the exact same phrases and words.

And your reviewers are influenced not by their own experience of playing the game, but by other reviewers? Might I suggest your French little buddy actually play the game next time so he could let the game be the major influence in his writing?

However, if it seems like too much of his stuff resembles published content, private message me or something and I'll have our full-timer EIC-type look into it.

I have no idea what EIC means. If it means the guy who doesn't have access to the web and can only be contacted by some secret method when one of your writers plagiarizes another site, I guess he is the man. While I understand a giant corporate site like yours has a policy on plagiarism and has rules you must follow when it is brought to your attention, I thought posting here would have been sufficient. Should I email you in triplicate?

Chet

Tom Ohle

08-11-2002, 01:08 PM

This issue is being dealt with accordingly. We do not condone plagiarism at GamersClick. Sorry to Erik for this incident. It will not happen again.

Mark Asher

08-11-2002, 01:13 PM

I had a couple of reviews I wrote for Gamepower stolen. The guy didn't even bother to paraphrase. He just cut and pasted them and his put his name on them.

Tom Ohle

08-11-2002, 01:19 PM

That's brutal. I mean, how hard is it to just play the damn game and write your own thoughts down? Somebody needs to write an application that scans various sites' reviews and ensures that it isn't plagiarized... dunno how it'd work, but it would be nice to have.

Tom Ohle

08-11-2002, 01:20 PM

By the way, the review has been pulled, but the way our programming currently works, it actually just pulls the links off of our site, but the review stays up. We're re-writing that code to make sure the link can no longer be reached at all.

Alan Au

08-11-2002, 02:12 PM

Chet, sorry if I wasn't surly enough for your tastes. My problem is that I'm way too forgiving. Fine, I don't like conflict. Call it a personality flaw if you like. Probably something I should work on. In any case, none of your damn business. :D

It is not in the pay section and I quoted the paragraphs in question, but way to start right in with the flimsy excuses.
Maybe I wasn't clear. I was referring to the ability to check for a pattern of plagarism moving forward. Plagarism is extremely serious accusation, so it's important to be certain before you start levelling it at people. Witness the whole playola debate and the trouble that's caused. Granted, the example you provided is certainly damning. Even so, I'm not the right person to deal with it. Tom is, and he has.

Oh, and EIC stands for Editor-In-Chief, not that he's actually EIC, but only that he has way more free time to follow up on this sort of stuff. I'm also passing the buck because I'm not getting paid, nor do I have permission to pull other people's articles. Yeah yeah, I know, excuses, but not like I can do anything about it anyway. I should probably just shut up now...

- Alan

jeep

08-11-2002, 02:59 PM

MY EYES!

In the name of Kibo, WTF is that font on your website? I went into the NWN review (http://www.gamersclick.com/review.cfm?p=v&id=460) and I thought Mozilla had broken on me. Check it in ie6...nope, still there. What is that monospaced font crap? Are you in the Army or something?

Wait, found it: font style="letter-spacing : 1px"

You picked a decent font with decent built-in spacing, then mutated it into something wrong. Printing old Wordperfect files through a postscript driver generates more readable text than that.

Hey Murph: The article itself isn't terrible, in fact, I cut/pasted it to my own website and put Chet's name on it. One question: how much time did you actually spend with the NWN toolkit?

Plagarism is extremely serious accusation, so it's important to be certain before you start levelling it at people.

Of course it's serious, it's not like he bought the article and was making his 'one legal backup.'

Witness the whole playola debate and the trouble that's caused. Granted, the example you provided is certainly damning. Even so, I'm not the right person to deal with it. Tom is, and he has.

Is the guy fired? More importantly: would you say replacing stolen text with a stolen trademark (http://www.gamersclick.com/review.cfm?p=v&id=682) more ironic, more edgy, or neither?

/jeep/

wumpus

08-11-2002, 06:03 PM

The font spacing is weird. But I gotta say, I was impressed with the GamersClick site design (graphics, layout, and so forth). Which is very rare for me. Most sites look totally generic techo (lame) or forgo any pretensios to design altogether.

Anonymous

08-11-2002, 06:30 PM

"a stolen trademark more ironic, more edgy, or neither?"

You mean "Jeep?"

Reference to AMC-Jeep or Popeye's animal sidekick?

Anonymous

08-11-2002, 08:22 PM

So the original article is now replaced with a different review of the same game by another author? In other words, two people from this website were actually playing this "game" at the same time, or the person who did the second review played the game in its entirety and wrote up a new review in a matter of hours? Well, I hear the game is short, so I guess that's possible, but it's all very... odd.

chet

08-11-2002, 10:01 PM

This thread makes my case for no editing of forums. Think about what you are going to say, say what you mean. Live with it. (nothing personal to you Alan, I just hate forums that allow edits)

I think this new review is my second favorite review of a game where the reviewer avoids actually talking about playing the game. I am always suspect of any site that doesn't post screenshots.

I have always wanted to write a parsing engine that just takes 3 reviews of any game and mixes them into an original review. I think what got me over the original review is not that it was lifted, but it was lifted so poorly. Mix it up.

One last thing about gamersclick - what is with the sexism and Murph's wife getting stuck reviewing girl games? Mall Tycoon? Well girls looooovvvvvee shopping...

Chet

Aszurom

08-11-2002, 10:06 PM

Dude, if you could write some sort of AI that could just look at three screenshots and write a review based on that... well, you'd save 90% of all game website owners a lot of time. :-)

There's a market for it.

Met_K

08-11-2002, 10:23 PM

What is with having a contest to win a game that's not due out for 4 or so months?

Christ, that's almost what a fansite would do.

Sparky

08-11-2002, 11:25 PM

Mark Asher

08-11-2002, 11:55 PM

One last thing about gamersclick - what is with the sexism and Murph's wife getting stuck reviewing girl games?

Most games reviewed by women are puzzle games, games with animals in them, or the $19.99 Franklin-Mint-Collectors-Plate-Tycoon crap that none of the guys wanted to review. Sad but true.

And the reason for this is...gaming's a male-dominated hobby. Yes, many women like computer games, but they represent a tiny minority as far as I can tell.

Men and women do seem to have some innate differences, and one of them is testosterone levels, and computer games seem to appeal to higher testosterone-leveled people.

mtkafka

08-12-2002, 01:30 AM

I'm kind of suspcious of the OFP Resistance Review on that site...

from Gamespot

"Requiring the original Operation Flashpoint to play, Resistance incorporates all the patches so far released for the original game and also includes a number of other significant upgrades. "

from Gamersclick

"Gameplay wise, Resistance requires the original CD to be playable and incorporates all of the currently available Flashpoint patches into one huge file."

from GS

"While Resistance deserves credit for taking such a cinematic approach and often succeeding, some problems mar the storytelling. Sometimes the cutscene direction can look pretty clumsy or resort to hoary clichés like focusing on a sped-up clock to indicate the passage of time. The cutscenes also suffer from long load times, and the scenes themselves can be overly lengthy to the point of tedium. "

from Gamersclick

"While Bohemia did a great job at dramatizing the storyline and putting it all together the whole ordeal becomes quite tedious after being forced to wait for what seems like an eternity (for all of you who care this was on a 2.5GHz machine) for the cinematic scenes to load. The scenes themselves are way too long and most of them could have been shortened substantially without any drastic effect on the quality of the storyline itself."

from Gamespot

"On the other hand, you'll sometimes spend time filling crates or trucks with all the guns and ammo you can scavenge, only to find to your dismay that none of them are accessible in the next mission, after all."

from Gamersclick

"It means you must scavenge for your weapons and load up trucks, crates, whatever you can find with that. Supposedly the weapons carry over from mission to mission but often I found myself frustrated at the fact I couldn’t access the weapon cache I had worked so hard to gain in the previous mission. "

I dont know, it sounds like a copy cat review (which I never knew existed in game reviews til this thread!!!!) without any original comments ... and the funny thing is I think the Gamespot review gets it wrong with OFP Resistance anyway.

etc

Murph

08-12-2002, 02:00 AM

One last thing about gamersclick - what is with the sexism and Murph's wife getting stuck reviewing girl games? Mall Tycoon? Well girls looooovvvvvee shopping...

She thought it looked like a game she'd enjoy. She was horribly wrong, but we had no way of knowing...

But she did that one because she wanted it, not because nobody else would take it. Just FYI.

Glad you hate the site, Chet. And equally glad that you've visited it so much. We appreciate it. :)

In response to Jeep's question, I will openly admit that I didn't get to spend as much time with the toolkit as I would have liked. I'll sit here and make up excuses about deadlines and yadda yadda if you'd like, but it wouldn't do any good. I'd spent a decent amount of time with it, and made some little mini-modules and stuff, but I probably wouldn't call it comprehensive. Am I proud of that? No. Would I have preferred to wait to post the review until I'd had more time? Yes. It just didn't work out that way.

mtkafka

08-12-2002, 02:04 AM

I just wanted to say that I don't think you copied reviews Murph or that anybody else on Gamersclick did! Its that guy who did OFP Resistance and that Tsunami review... though I read his reviews for Dungeon Siege and Freedom Force and they seem to be like he played the games. I liked Au's review of AoW2 and yours for NWN. Bah, I have way too much time on my hands......

etc

Murph

08-12-2002, 02:10 AM

Thanks. I never felt the finger pointed at me this time. Wumpus must have been busy today. But thanks just the same.

And Turner must have more time on his hands than anyone else alive. Yes, he actually plays those games, and he cranks out more reviews than anyone else around there has time for.

But, he's also getting paid to do it, so...there ya have it.

mtkafka

08-12-2002, 02:36 AM

Maybe he's using Gamespot reviews as guidelines. If he did, I suggest he use Computer Games reviews instead! Though then he'd be late i guess.

etc

Sparky

08-12-2002, 03:44 AM

And the reason for this is...gaming's a male-dominated hobby.

Like they used to say in the 80's: "no duh". Also like they used to say in the 80's: "cool beans", "grody to the max", "where's the beef?" and "ohmigodilovesimonlebon!".

Mike Cathcart

08-12-2002, 06:39 AM

Erik

08-12-2002, 07:06 AM

Here's an even bigger scandal:

According to this review (http://www.gamezone.com/gzreviews/r20286.htm) on plastered-with-Tsunami-banner-ads Gamezone, Tsunami 2265 is

an enjoyable treat that shouldn't be missed

8/10!

I think this is one robot that's going to turn into... Oscar!

Matthew Gallant

08-12-2002, 07:11 AM

Another day, another game review site I've never heard of.

Tom Ohle

08-12-2002, 09:08 AM

Nicholas Thibault has been let go from GamersClick, so this issue will not come up again. We try to keep as tight a grip on all of our staff as possible, and make sure they know to play the game and put down their own thoughts. However, since we don't have any in-house writers, it's pretty difficult to ensure they've played the game to the extent required for a review. We read it, and if it seems like he played it, we post it. There's a certain level of trust you need to have that your writers are not plagiarizing. In this case, the author took advantage of that trust, and we have dealt with him (and the review in question) accordingly.

If you notice anything else odd on the site, please let myself or Turner know. Simple as that.

Matthew Gallant

08-12-2002, 09:22 AM

Nicholas Thibault has been let go from GamersClick

He was a paid employee? Can I have his job?

Anonymous

08-12-2002, 09:40 AM

Nicholas Thibault has been let go from GamersClick, so this issue will not come up again. We try to keep as tight a grip on all of our staff as possible

The more you tighten your grip, the more lazy game reviewers will slip through your fingers.

- not Star Wars

"a stolen trademark more ironic, more edgy, or neither?"

You mean "Jeep?"

Reference to AMC-Jeep or Popeye's animal sidekick?

Vague reference to my own name, actually, and don't capitalize it. You want me to get sued?

/jeep/

Alan Au

08-12-2002, 11:07 AM

I liked Au's review of AoW2
Obligatory disclaimer: not to be confused with anthing written by that Wagner James guy. :P

- Alan

Sean Tudor

08-12-2002, 02:02 PM

Another day, another game review site I've never heard of.

Ditto.

Anonymous

08-12-2002, 02:21 PM

asspennies

08-12-2002, 02:24 PM

So, Chet, how did you notice these reviews were so similar? Did you actually read them consecutively while surfing for the latest Tsunami 2265 coverage, or do you have a photographic memory for game reviews?

You know, Chet's a pretty popular guy, with his own website and all. You think that maybe, just maybe, another user noticed the similarities and informed him?

Consider the possibilities.

Tyjenks

08-12-2002, 02:27 PM

So, Chet, how did you notice these reviews were so similar? Did you actually read them consecutively while surfing for the latest Tsunami 2265 coverage, or do you have a photographic memory for game reviews?

My guess is Chet was doing research so he could open a new site dedicated specifically to Tsunami and it's huge mod community. :wink:

Turner Hopkinson

08-16-2002, 08:20 PM

Couple of things

1 - The review up there now isn't the one with the plagiarism in it, it was replaced by one penned by myself.

For those of you wondering how I wrote the review in a matter of hours here's the explanation between that: I did indeed play the game, quite a bit actually, and already had a review written up.

2 - Nick indeed has been laid off

3 - Like Tom said, any more issues with our content be sure to let me or him know ASAP.

4 - I do my best before posting the content to ensure it isn't plagiarized, but the sheer number of reviews for a single game makes that a monumental task.

Anonymous

08-17-2002, 01:35 PM

For those of you wondering how I wrote the review in a matter of hours here's the explanation between that: I did indeed play the game, quite a bit actually, and already had a review written up.
So despite assigning it out to another writer, you'd written another review for fun? And of Tsunami 2265, of all things? I mean, WarCraft III, okay, but yeesh...

4 - I do my best before posting the content to ensure it isn't plagiarized, but the sheer number of reviews for a single game makes that a monumental task.
Er, you do realize this is impossible, and also pointless to even make such a statement. You can only assume your articles aren't plagiarized, you can't actually check for it. Working with reputable, quality writers helps a bit.

Just out of curiosity, were you paying for the article or was it a freebie? If it's the latter, I'd think that with no financial incentive to do the work, people are more likely to copy someone else's. But that's just me. I'm lazy.

Troy S Goodfellow

08-17-2002, 02:37 PM

All Gamersclick articles are written for the love of the hobby and because it's fun. Plus the occasional free stuff.

I disagree that pay would make writers more honest, though. Plagiarism is a sign of poor character beyond laziness. Steven Ambrose and Doris Kearns Goodwin were amply rewarded for their work, though both clearly plagiarized. Neither can be described as especially lazy.

As a former academic, all the cases of plagiarism I found were more evidence of lack of respect for proper procedures than people trying to cut corners. Really lazy people don't write at all.

Toddy

08-17-2002, 08:59 PM

Then how would you characterize Goodwin and Ambrose? Lazy is the least of the words that I would use to describe such intellectual criminals. And I can't believe that "all" of the cases of plagiarism that you discovered came from "lack of respect for proper procedures." There are millions of undergrads out there who rip off ideas so they can spend more time drunk, or pay for essays written by others to enhance their grades and potential of gaining good employment and/or entrance to grad school. You make it seem like it's all about improper footnoting. Where did you live this former life as an academic? Pollyanna U.?

Anonymous

08-18-2002, 09:32 AM

I disagree that pay would make writers more honest, though. Plagiarism is a sign of poor character beyond laziness.
Sure, but if Brett Todd really wants to make $1000 next month from my publication, he'd better not fuck it up by plagiarizing something.

You hear that Todd? I'm watching your ass, though not in the literal sense.

Steven Ambrose and Doris Kearns Goodwin were amply rewarded for their work, though both clearly plagiarized. Neither can be described as especially lazy.
Nope, and at the highest level it's probably sloppiness, or maybe it's laziness, if you believe Goodwin that she didn't check her researchers (I think that was her excuse). But at the low levels, such as academia (at least when we're talking undergrads), I can't imagine it's anything but laziness. Everyone is at least somewhat familiar with procedure, but it's a helluva lot faster to copy and paste that text from that website than to search out the original source, verify its accuracy, rewrite it, footnote it, blah blah blah.

deanco

08-18-2002, 12:23 PM

"2 - Nick indeed has been laid off"

Umm, sorry, but if he wasn't getting paid, is 'laid off' the right term? Or are you affiliated with PlanetGameCube now?

DeanCo--

Murph

08-18-2002, 12:30 PM

Troy S Goodfellow

08-18-2002, 01:08 PM

But at the low levels, such as academia (at least when we're talking undergrads), I can't imagine it's anything but laziness. Everyone is at least somewhat familiar with procedure, but it's a helluva lot faster to copy and paste that text from that website than to search out the original source, verify its accuracy, rewrite it, footnote it, blah blah blah.

The examples cited above weren't simple cut and pastes though. There was some tortured rewriting involved to attempt to paraphrase thoughts that were clearly being borrowed. Sure, if it's word for word stuff then that's clearly lazy. Beyond lazy if there's such a thing.

Among freshmen and sophmore students I've instructed and caught plagiarizing (you never notice the ones you don't catch) the word for word stuff is very rare and confined to a few sentences. And they never lift the whole thing. Almost every case involves half the paper being the fractured English of somebody who waited until the last minute to do something they put off too late and the other half being cribbed from any number of websites, text books or (all to rarely) library books. Often they mix poorly paraphrased passages from contradictory sources - a never-ending source of amusement for us university nerds. Sure there is some laziness here, but it's a character flaw deeper than mere indolence, I think.

And, despite the penalties, students caught in one class will often be caught in another later in their course work. (First case expulsions are extremely rare).

Now the lack of library work...that's laziness.

Anonymous

08-18-2002, 01:34 PM

What do you prefer? Can you be "employed" without being paid? Turner delegates the work, guides the content, and hands out assignments. We write, turn it in to him, and do our best to make deadlines. Sounds like a real job to me. In which case, "laid off" is completely approrpriate.
"He's no longer contributing to our website" is probably more appropriate.

We wouldn't "lay off" a freelancer. They just wouldn't receive any more assignments since they can't have work unless we hand it out to 'em.

deanco

08-18-2002, 04:00 PM

"Can you be "employed" without being paid? Turner delegates the work, guides the content, and hands out assignments. We write, turn it in to him, and do our best to make deadlines. Sounds like a real job to me."

Sure does, however it's missing one critical element. The check at the end of the month. I used to hear the same shit when I was a pro musician. "The gig doesn't pay anything, but there will be a lot of record producers in the audience". Yeah right.

But whatever, I hear they're 'hiring' over at PlanetGameCube, maybe he can get a 'job' there.

DeanCo--

Anonymous

08-18-2002, 04:26 PM

Hmm... I wonder if a site that doesn't pay its writers could have itself declared a charitable non-profit? It's serving the public good -- it's a "consumer advocacy" site, right? Helping gamers manage money, etc?

Then writers who contribute for no pay could write off the time they spend "volunteering" on their taxes, no?

You could even get pros to contribute at no charge, since it would help them reduce their tax liability for the work they actually got paid for. :-)

(I'd never advocate doing this -- I hate it when companies rip off the government (I've heard there have been years that MS paid almost no corporate taxes, which is unbelievable). But it seems almost workable...)

Alan Au

08-18-2002, 10:19 PM

No, I'm not getting paid for GamersClick stuff, but it's a nice way to build a small portfolio, and in the meantime I can apply for press status at conventions. I suppose a paid position would be nice, but I haven't made it a high priority.

- Alan

JeffL

08-19-2002, 05:35 AM

All Gamersclick articles are written for the love of the hobby and because it's fun.

Anyone who turns in a review that's stolen from someone else isn't doing it for love of the hobby. More likely because they want to tell their buddies and the clerk at Electronics Boutique that they're a "writer" in the computer games world. Without the hassle of having to do the work.

Writing in this industry is fun, but it's also hard work if it's done well. Conversely, it's easy to do a crappy job. Don't thoroughly play the game, read Usenet and paraphrase, read other reviews and paraphrase, etc. That's why you've gotta admire some of the best writers in this industry, like Chick - there's no doubt that he didn't just reword Usenet or other reviews when he reviewed Deus Ex and Falcon 4, for example.

MrsMurph

08-19-2002, 11:45 AM

For the record, I have not not gotten a game that I wanted to review yet. I'm into the girlie stuff - nothing hardcore. Just being a supportive wife, really, I guess. Or attempting...

Turner Hopkinson

08-19-2002, 12:22 PM

Fine Steve

He's no longer contributing to our website. :)

Anonymous

08-20-2002, 08:11 PM

Okay now its time for my defence, I never did receive the Tsunami 2265 game at any time before or after the review was published. I did not write the Tsunami 2265 review that was posted at GamersClick. I do not know where that review came from. The review I wrote was this following, based solely off of information from the official site, the demo, and video:

Tsunami 2265 is set in a 3rd person perspective and is a game that for some reason people do not like, personally I like the anime touch that they gave the game. It basically put you right into a cartoon being able to control all aspects of what is going on and being immersed in a cartoon brought me back to my childhood.

While your playing Tsunami 2265 you have the ability to play as two main characters, the names of these characters are Naoko Hikari and Neon Shima some fairly interesting names for a very interesting game. And it seems as though the developers like keeping things in two’s because there was 2 game modes as well; the modes are a mech shooter and an adventure like portrayal with both Naoko and Neon.

The game includes 13 different levels, with 20 different enemy mechs for you to destroy. Now the AI in Tsunami 2265 is something not to be desired upon. But to make up for that the developers threw in more mechs for you to destroy, which is just an added bonus if you like large fire fights and explosions.

Tsunami 2265 has some of the best sound and music combination I’ve heard in a long time. I found that it was really able to draw me the player right into the story and made you in a way a little addicted and wanting to continue on playing right from the first sitting of playing the game. With the great sound FX and music I could almost say to buy this game just for that fact.

Now I know this is a short review of a great game, but I really did not in anyway want to ruin the story plot that all the other new reviews did do. But I can assure you that with Tsunami’s great mysteries and intense battles you are sure to encounter, and being brought back to your childhood memories of Saturday morning cartoons. You’ll sure be glad you’ve bought and played Tsunami 2265.

As you can see that review is completely different to that of what was posted at GamersClick. The reason it took me so long to come out is because Bulldog has been threatening me with a lawsuit, and I’ve been deciding whether or not it would be worth it to save my name and what little reputation I have or rather had. I was just going to let this go, because it was probably Turners way of getting rid of me. But Turner has been harassing me since I quit, and so I had to do something.

Nicholas Thibault

08-20-2002, 08:13 PM

Above was my response.

chet

08-20-2002, 08:30 PM

Are you trying to get us to hate you more?

I never did receive the Tsunami 2265 game at any time before or after the review was published. I did not write the Tsunami 2265 review that was posted at GamersClick. I do not know where that review came from. The review I wrote was this following, based solely off of information from the official site, the demo, and video

Now I know this is a short review of a great game, but I really did not in anyway want to ruin the story plot that all the other new reviews did do. But I can assure you that with Tsunami’s great mysteries and intense battles you are sure to encounter, and being brought back to your childhood memories of Saturday morning cartoons.

Yeah, don't ruin the game by actually playing it. It is so much better never bought and sitting in the store while you dream of playing it.

You are a troll fake posting, right?

Chet

Mike Cathcart

08-20-2002, 08:35 PM

Yeah, don't ruin the game by actually playing it. It is so much better never bought and sitting in the store while you dream of playing it.

Yeah, it's not as if anyone here ever wrote a review of BloodRayne using only the back of the box and a PR handout...

Anonymous

08-20-2002, 09:28 PM

Good lord... Nicholas, your unedited review makes me want to spend the money to subscribe to Gamespot Complete. I've never seen a better illustration why it's good to have "commercial" sites with, oh, editorial standards.

Now, I hate to criticize work that's done for the love of it. But just because it's free doesn't mean it shouldn't be good. I realize Gamersclick doesn't pay its writers, so they can't demand the quality that CGW, Gamespot, CGM, etc. enjoy. But geeze, kid, take some pride in your work.

Okay now its time for my defence, I never did receive the Tsunami 2265 game at any time before or after the review was published
Then you shouldn't have written about the game.

Tsunami 2265 is set in a 3rd person perspective and is a game that for some reason people do not like, personally I like the anime touch that they gave the game. It basically put you right into a cartoon being able to control all aspects of what is going on and being immersed in a cartoon brought me back to my childhood.
Okay... Read this out loud, as if you were talking to someone. Imagine commas where you would pause in speech. Can't you see how awkward this entire opener is? "...that for some reason people do not like..." That makes no sense at all. The second sentence, besides its other problems, sounds like an excited eight-year old talking at full speed with no pause for breath. Commas, my boy, commas.

While your playing Tsunami 2265 you have the ability to play as two main characters, the names of these characters are Naoko Hikari and Neon Shima some fairly interesting names for a very interesting game.
Again, forget the technical literary criticism. Just say the sentence out loud and imagine you were using it in conversation. Totally awkward, right?

But I can assure you that with Tsunami’s great mysteries and intense battles you are sure to encounter, and being brought back to your childhood memories of Saturday morning cartoons.

The thought after the comma doesn't match thought before the comma. This sentence makes no sense.

So it's no wonder the Gamersclick people changed what you wrote. It's called editing.

Look, you don't even have to take a Journalism 101 class (although at times I think that should be a requirement for web posting). Just READ the professional sites and the game magazines and see what kind of structure, information, and writing style is common in the industry. The best way to learn how to write is to read the works of others who do it well.

But the main thing to take home from all this: If you haven't even played the fucking game, don't try tell people whether or not they should spend their hard-earned $50 on it. Play it, play it all the way through, and write about in a manner that wouldn't send an english teacher into cardiac arrest.

Murph

08-20-2002, 09:33 PM

But Turner has been harassing me since I quit, and so I had to do something.

I don't know what Turner has or hasn't been doing, but I would like to point one thing out: Nicholas didn't "quit." Gamersclick got an e-mail from him announcing that he quit about a week or a week and a half after we'd told him that we wouldn't be giving him anymore work. So, I guess he quit in his mind, but he'd already been "let go" (how's that, Steve?) in the eyes of...um...well, the "management."

Nicholas Thibault

08-20-2002, 10:11 PM

Anonymous

08-20-2002, 10:47 PM

I didn't post here for an English lesson; I was posting here to prove that I indeed did not plagiarise. And I do know my writing skills are not that great, but doing this kind of work was giving me the experience I needed to become a better writer.

Yeah, but until you get to that point, you shouldn't publish your work in front of hundreds of others. And if you choose to, then you shouldn't be offended by criticism.

If you read what you sent in, it should be obvious that you should have worked on the review more. Your article reads as if you sent it in without even reading it yourself. All the experience in the world isn't going to help unless you put some care into what you're writing in the first place.

Nicholas Thibault

08-20-2002, 11:21 PM

Hey I take criticism, and I think about it a lot. But the main issue here is plagiarism. If you want to make a thread to talk to me about my writing then go right a head, or even e-mail me. I'll gladly respond to it. But how are you going to get experience if you never write anything?

And if Bulldog didn't like my writing, then he never had to even deal with me. What he did was give me all the crap assignments no one else wanted. Which was fine with me cause I could get the experience I was looking for.

Turner Hopkinson

08-20-2002, 11:29 PM

Edit: Cut all the crap out since I'm rapidly growing weary of dealing with this.

The absolute bottom line here is Nick without doubt plagiarized.
He was punished, we (enjoy this steve) made it clear he would no longer contribute to our site.

Nuff' said.

Dave Long

08-21-2002, 05:57 AM

The absolute bottom line here is Nick without doubt plagiarized.

Call me crazy, but it looks like that's still in doubt. He claims one thing, you claim another. How can you expect us to just assume you're right considering probably 1% of us have ever met either of you and weren't involved in all the goings on?

This wouldn't be the first time someone running a web site has pressured someone who "works" for it in some way.

--Dave

Murph

08-21-2002, 06:11 AM

Well, this isn't hardcore proof of anything, but Turner's always been really reasonable in dealing with me in terms of deadlines and stuff, and has certainly never put my name on anything I didn't write.

He admitted to "copy-editing" Nicholas's article, but I openly admit that what Nicholas claimed to have turned in and what was originally posted are different beyond "copy-editing."

They're both so darn believable. :-)

MrsMurph

08-21-2002, 06:35 AM

I just want to point out also that Turner doesn't give anyone the crap assignments. He simply takes whatever reviews/previews/interviews that no one else wants. I'm not going to pretend I know exactly what happened here, but that I do know for certain.

Chris Violette

08-21-2002, 07:15 AM

Tsunami 2265 is set in a 3rd person perspective and is a game that for some reason people do not like, personally I like the anime touch that they gave the game. It basically put you right into a cartoon being able to control all aspects of what is going on and being immersed in a cartoon brought me back to my childhood.

While your playing Tsunami 2265 you have the ability to play as two main characters, the names of these characters are Naoko Hikari and Neon Shima some fairly interesting names for a very interesting game. And it seems as though the developers like keeping things in two’s because there was 2 game modes as well; the modes are a mech shooter and an adventure like portrayal with both Naoko and Neon.

The game includes 13 different levels, with 20 different enemy mechs for you to destroy. Now the AI in Tsunami 2265 is something not to be desired upon. But to make up for that the developers threw in more mechs for you to destroy, which is just an added bonus if you like large fire fights and explosions.

Tsunami 2265 has some of the best sound and music combination I’ve heard in a long time. I found that it was really able to draw me the player right into the story and made you in a way a little addicted and wanting to continue on playing right from the first sitting of playing the game. With the great sound FX and music I could almost say to buy this game just for that fact.

Now I know this is a short review of a great game, but I really did not in anyway want to ruin the story plot that all the other new reviews did do. But I can assure you that with Tsunami’s great mysteries and intense battles you are sure to encounter, and being brought back to your childhood memories of Saturday morning cartoons. You’ll sure be glad you’ve bought and played Tsunami 2265.

Hi, I found this exert kind of funny. I've been waiting to see if Nick was going to reply to this thread with any more "evidence" to his defense. Anyway, I'd like to point out I'm the poor soul who had to "copyedit" the original ripped off review (if it's any consolation it turns out the only parts that made sense were the parts that were stolen).

In any event, my point is that the quote above IS NOT the review he passed in (although Nick definitely wrote it, thanks to his trademark "style" being there). I don't know what he's trying to prove by posting a second review (and if he can pull them from his ass so quickly, why he didn't do the first one properly).

As far as being “forced” to do all the crap jobs, well no one can force you to do anything. Personally I don’t blame Turner for limiting the amount of review/previews you were allowed to do. You couldn’t do interviews properly in most cases. I don’t want to be totally negative, some were okay, but a lot had questions that didn’t even apply to the proper game. I think one of the funnier examples like that came back from Derek Smart. I’m glad he didn’t answer the "bad" questions like a lot of interviewees.

You’ve got to prove you can do something before you’re given the responsibility to do it often. Heck looks like the Tsunami review showed how responsible you are.

jeep

08-21-2002, 07:16 AM

Above was my response.

Here's mine: you're an idiot for trolling in here. Plagiarism is a pretty serious accusation, and you make light of it with this shit? Until you can write your way out of freshman comp you'd best keep your reviews where folks can't see them.

Sick 'em, grammar nazis.

/jeep/

Erik

08-21-2002, 07:50 AM

To confuse things more, I have an email from Thibault where he goes line by line through the plagiarized review explaining after every couple of sentences why it isn't actually plagiarism. At no point in the email does he disclaim ownership of the review.

Chris Johnson

08-21-2002, 08:26 AM

Writing in this industry is fun, but it's also hard work if it's done well. Conversely, it's easy to do a crappy job. Don't thoroughly play the game, read Usenet and paraphrase, read other reviews and paraphrase, etc. That's why you've gotta admire some of the best writers in this industry, like Chick - there's no doubt that he didn't just reword Usenet or other reviews when he reviewed Deus Ex and Falcon 4, for example.

So, the non-crappy review can't agree with usenet opinion? Must be markedly different from other reviews? Interesting. I guess I don't really care what other people think about games, so if my opinions match others, then the "others" have good taste :) . Plus, if I'm paraphrasing my own usenet posts, does that make the review crappy? If a review doesn't tell me information about a game along with an opinion, then it is a crappy review as far as my reading of it is concerned. All of this other stuff has to do with ethical conduct - there have been some pretty crappy original reviews by people that have thoroughly played games. I may have written one or two of these myself :D .

JeffL

08-21-2002, 10:50 AM

So, the non-crappy review can't agree with usenet opinion? Must be markedly different from other reviews? Interesting. I guess I don't really care what other people think about games, so if my opinions match others, then the "others" have good taste :) . Plus, if I'm paraphrasing my own usenet posts, does that make the review crappy.

Um - where did you make that leap? I said that a lot of folks don't play the game through and develop their own opinion, they simply parrot what they read on Usenet or other reviews. Do you disagree that's a problem? Hell, the reviewer in question in this thread just saud that he never played the game.

And yes, I've read your Usenet posts, so if you're using them in the review it does make it crappy. :wink:

Jeff