Are you on the government's panic list?

[Jason McCullough]

Uh oh (http://www.metafilter.com/71820/Main-Core).

According to a senior government official who served with high-level security clearances in five administrations, "There exists a database of Americans, who, often for the slightest and most trivial reason, are considered unfriendly, and who, in a time of panic, might be incarcerated. The database can identify and locate perceived 'enemies of the state' almost instantaneously." He and other sources tell Radar that the database is sometimes referred to by the code name Main Core. One knowledgeable source claims that 8 million Americans are now listed in Main Core as potentially suspect. In the event of a national emergency, these people could be subject to everything from heightened surveillance and tracking to direct questioning and possibly even detention.

Christopher Ketcham writes for Harper's, GQ, and Mother Jones, among other publications. He splits his time between Utah and Brooklyn, NY.

This doesn't look like the usual crackpottery. The list is apparently targeted at the same people it's always been, like back in COINTELPRO:

Main Core also allegedly draws on four smaller databases that, in turn, cull from federal, state, and local "intelligence" reports; print and broadcast media; financial records; "commercial databases"; and unidentified "private sector entities." Additional information comes from a database known as the Terrorist Identities Datamart Environment, which generates watch lists from the Office of the Director of National Intelligence for use by airlines, law enforcement, and border posts. According to the Washington Post, the Terrorist Identities list has quadrupled in size between 2003 and 2007 to include about 435,000 names. The FBI's Terrorist Screening Center border crossing list, which listed 755,000 persons as of fall 2007, grows by 200,000 names a year. A former NSA officer tells Radar that the Treasury Department's Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, using an electronic-funds transfer surveillance program, also contributes data to Main Core, as does a Pentagon program that was created in 2002 to monitor antiwar protesters and environmental activists such as Greenpeace.

HERE'S LOOKING AT YOU From your late-night e-mails and travel plans to phone records and financial transactions, the government finds you fascinating—and may consider you a potential enemy of the state.

If previous FEMA and FBI lists are any indication, the Main Core database includes dissidents and activists of various stripes, political and tax protesters, lawyers and professors, publishers and journalists, gun owners, illegal aliens, foreign nationals, and a great many other harmless, average people.

[JPR]

Does anybody have any doubt that there's a list like that?

I would probably be surprised if I'm not on it, frankly.

[Fooey]

It what way does this not look like the usual crackpottery? It seems like a pitch perfect example of the genre.

[Jason McCullough]

Usually stories like those only show up in sources you haven't heard of, they aren't written by mainstream authors, they don't quote anyone in the government, and every assertion is unverifiable.

[noun]

Where would they put 8 million people?

[Fooey]

What government official did he quote? I see the insane ramblings of an unnamed "senior government official" and a couple other supposed anonymous sources who most likely only exist in the author's fevered mind.

[JeffL]

Usually stories like those only show up in sources you haven't heard of, they aren't written by mainstream authors, they don't quote anyone in the government, and every assertion is unverifiable.

Well, this is the same guy that wrote an article accusing Nixon of the attempted assassination of George Wallace. The article made the JFK assassination conspiracy theories look positively unimaginative.

[Fooey]

According to his web page, which appears to have been written by a schizophrenic, one of his big areas of inquiry is proving that the Israelis were behind 9/11.

http://www.christopherketcham.com/

[Sockpuppet]

I just hope Albert Woo keeps a helpful reference chart.

[antlers]

According to his web page, which appears to have been written by a schizophrenic, one of his big areas of inquiry is proving that the Israelis were behind 9/11.

http://www.christopherketcham.com/

The web page contains a copy of one of his articles, which seemed lucid rather than schizophrenic, and an index of his previous work.

Rather than trying to show that the Israelis were behind 9/11, his work seems to suggest that the limited information on the hijackers and their plans that the CIA had before 9/11 came from the Israelis, and that one of the obstacles to the CIA sharing this information with the FBI was the CIA's desire not to disrupt their relationship with the Israelis. Neither assertion is sinister or surprising, although the publications in which they appear do tend to have an anti-Israel editorial stance.

[antlers]

Where would they put 8 million people?

There is a list of people they might detain/question/surveil in an emergency, and there is a list with as many as 8 million people. They aren't the same list, although the article elides this for sensationalism.

[Jason McCullough]

I don't see anything about the Israelis being behind 9/11, just that they were doing surveillance on the hijackers previous to the event (like we were, remember, we fucked it up), which I've heard elsewhere in the context of the Isreali art student (http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2002/05/07/students/index.html) thing....which I now see is by the same guy. I don't see what's controversial about that one (http://cryptome.org/dea-il-spy.htm), however; it's one of those stories floating around that's never gotten nailed down (http://www.antiwar.com/israeli-files.php) (note couple of ABC and Fox News) mentions.

As to the article, everything mentioned that doesn't have a "maybe" qualifier did in fact happen; the references to continuity of government stuff (which have existed since Eisenhower, and have possibly unconstitutional provisions scattered everywhere; see here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuity_of_Operations_Plan)) are something I haven't heard before, and that being mixed up with Bush's did-in-fact-happen massive warrantless electronic wiretapping would explain a lot about the high drama.

The heavy lifting is the background government quotes, and the ability to trust that comes down to the writer and editorial checking. It's still interesting without those, of course. Obviously the government isn't planning to detain 8 million people on practicality grounds, but I'm more than a little disturbed to see a plausible suspicion that Hoover's enemies list has come back.

No idea on the Wallace assassination thing.

[Bahimiron]

Where would they put 8 million people?

Gary, Indiana.

[wildpokerman]

Where would they put 8 million people?

In the panic room of course!

http://www.frontiernet.net/~dlcowart/kristen_pic2.jpg

[NoWayJose]

I'm always curious how to get on the "must keep" list of essential people to move to secure locations in the event of a nuclear war, meteor, or gamma ray altered giant reptiles. Will my knowledge of how to make video games and forum posts be considered invaluable, or will I have to rely on my good looks as usual?

[wildpokerman]

I'm always curious how to get on the "must keep" list of essential people to move to secure locations in the event of a nuclear war, meteor, or gamma ray altered giant reptiles. Will my knowledge of how to make video games and forum posts be considered invaluable, or will I have to rely on my good looks as usual?

No but your FPS skills will be invaluable to control the army of cyborgs who will confront our irradiated brotheren.

Also RTS skills will be needed to control all the tiny robots that will face the lizards.

[JeffL]

I don't see anything about the Israelis being behind 9/11, just that they were doing surveillance on the hijackers previous to the event (like we were, remember, we fucked it up), which I've heard elsewhere in the context of the Isreali art student (http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2002/05/07/students/index.html) thing....which I now see is by the same guy. I don't see what's controversial about that one (http://cryptome.org/dea-il-spy.htm), however; it's one of those stories floating around that's never gotten nailed down (http://www.antiwar.com/israeli-files.php) (note couple of ABC and Fox News) mentions.

As to the article, everything mentioned that doesn't have a "maybe" qualifier did in fact happen; the references to continuity of government stuff (which have existed since Eisenhower, and have possibly unconstitutional provisions scattered everywhere; see here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuity_of_Operations_Plan)) are something I haven't heard before, and that being mixed up with Bush's did-in-fact-happen massive warrantless electronic wiretapping would explain a lot about the high drama.

The heavy lifting is the background government quotes, and the ability to trust that comes down to the writer and editorial checking. It's still interesting without those, of course. Obviously the government isn't planning to detain 8 million people on practicality grounds, but I'm more than a little disturbed to see a plausible suspicion that Hoover's enemies list has come back.

No idea on the Wallace assassination thing.

http://www.freezerbox.com/archive/article.php?id=390

I've read a few articles by this guy in the past - he's really into conspiracy type stuff.

[Crispus]

Only 8 million? I would've guessed more people would be on the list than that.

[Sarkus]

Well, if this exists I think Jason just got himself put on The List.

:-)

[Midnight Son]

Gun owners? How many million is that?

[Jason McCullough]

Well, if this exists I think Jason just got himself put on The List.

:-)

Shit. :(

[Sarkus]

Shit. :(

Don't worry, I was kidding. I'm sure you were already on it before this. :-)

[Bill Dungsroman]

Does anybody have any doubt that there's a list like that?

I would probably be surprised if I'm not on it, frankly.

I...what? I don't even know where to start with this post.

[Moore]

Where would they put 8 million people?

a grave?

[Ben Sones]

I...what? I don't even know where to start with this post.

REPORTED.

[Sarkus]

Let's see . . . according to The List:

- Jason's been on it for a long time. "Radical thinker" it says.

- Bill's on it because of that russian dancer.

- Rimbo's listed as "shouldn't be allowed to breed."

- Dirt's apparently a "PRC agent."

- it just says "Top Secret" next to Lum's name.

So, that's about it. I don't see anyone else.

:-o

[Brad Grenz]

We're probably all on the list thanks to our association with Brian Koontz, known super-villain.

[Rimbo]

You're more likely to have a third nipple than you are to be on this list.

[Funkula]

Also on the list: Francisco Scaramanga.

[Brad Grenz]

You're more likely to have a third nipple than you are to be on this list.

Third nipples are grounds to be on the list.

[Bill Dungsroman]

- Bill's on it because of that russian dancer.

Shit.

[Bahimiron]

I like to think that this list is real, but it's not nearly as good or efficient as the article suggests. Like it's just a big game of Where in the World is Carmen San Diego? They punch in the name of a questionably loyal person who needs to be locked up in Gary, Indiana and the program says, "I saw him driving away in a car that had a triangle shaped flag!"

[Rimbo]

- Rimbo's listed as "shouldn't be allowed to breed."

Too late.

[WarrenM]

Too late.
It can be corrected.

[Rimbo]

You know, EpicBoy, you might wanna think for a second about what you just posted.

[WarrenM]

You know, EpicBoy, you might wanna think for a second about what you just posted.
It was a joke. Sorry if you took offense.

[Rimbo]

It was a joke. Sorry if you took offense.

Not a funny one.

You can make fun of me all you like; I'm a very silly person, and act like a complete bozo frequently enough. But leave my family out of it, OK?

[Lunch of Kong]

My buddy says that maybe he meant he would go back in time and steal Rimbo's testicles.

[Moore]

Yeah that might be a bit of bad taste there.

Roger: Those are family!

[WarrenM]

But leave my family out of it, OK?
Your family was never in it. It was an attempt at humor on the internet not a pre-meditated plan to attack your kid. He's never done anything to me.

EDIT: At the very least, take comfort in the fact that I'm definitely on the list now.

[Rimbo]

Thanks for apologizing, EpicBoy. I understand. I've crossed a line or twenty that I shouldn't have in the past myself, so I can't be too harsh on you. And I do have a tendency to be a complete raging dickhead at times, and most of the shit thrown my way I deserved. I just get a little defensive where the little guy is concerned. Others here who are parents will understand.

Of course now it's all I can do to keep from posting links and showing off my pride and joy...

[Shadarr]

Only 8 million? I would've guessed more people would be on the list than that.
It's a list of only 8 million names, but just like the no-fly list if one Jason McCullough is on the list, all of them are.

[Helboi]

Where would they put 8 million people?

More importantly, why would 8 million people (not to mention the rest of the population) allow it?

[Moore]

I dunno, we allow torture, bullshit wars, and other fun fun shenanigans, why would anyone stop it?

[Rimbo]

More importantly, why would 8 million people (not to mention the rest of the population) allow it?

Things like this can happen and have happened before. There is even a series of books on the subjects called The Breakdown of Democratic Regimes (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=The+Breakdown+of+Democratic+Regimes&x=0&y=0) dedicated to the subject, with an entire volume just on Chile by Arturo Valenzuela, one of the foremost scholars on the subject. Chile was interesting because unlike most of its neighbors, it really was a democracy up until Pinochet, and had been so since its inception.

There's no reason why it can't happen here.

[Veefy]

There was even a brief reference to the concept of a FEMA list in Tom's Favourite Game of All Time.

SIMONS
"Need I remind you that in the case of a national emergency FEMA has a list of
six million Americans who will be transported to detention centers? Your
tabloids call it RX 84".

NSF PRISONER
"Yeah, including the President, Congress, and the Supreme Court."

SIMONS
"In my position, I find it very easy to add names to that list."

Though given FEMA's recent history (Katrina), I think the big bad secret government would probably choose an agency somewhat more competent to handle it....

[Sam Jones]

Edit: damn - beaten to the Deus Ex quote!

[Mike O'Malley]

The government is definitely on MY panic list.