April NPDs: I've seen the future and it is Wii

[forgeforsaken]

Hardware
Wii 714.2K
Nintendo DS 414.8K
PSP 192.7K
Xbox 360 188.0K
PlayStation 3 187.1K
PlayStation 2 124.4K

Top 10 VG Titles - April'08
Units*
1. 360 GTA IV 1.85mm
2. Wii Mario Kart w/ wheel 1.12mm
3. PS3 GTA IV 1.00mm
4. Wii Play 360K
5. Wii Super Smash Bros. Brawl 326K
6. PS3 Gran Turismo 5: Prologue 224K
7. DS Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Darkness 202K
8. DS Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Time 202K
9. Wii Guitar Hero III 152K
10. 360 Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 141K

[forgeforsaken]

So, the Wii numbers would be impressive on their own, but comparing them to the PS3 and 360 numbers for the same month is just staggering. Then you add on top of that the GTA4 numbers and the Wii is still selling that much more than everything else and the mind boggles.

GTA4/Mario Kart numbers impressive as well when you consider they came out end of month.

[Shadarr]

Hey, at least the PS3 is outselling the PS2 now. That's something.

[Cossix]

Christ, CoD4 is still selling like gangbusters. I wouldn't be surprised to see it take over GTAIV on the Live charts either next week or the week after.

ALSO: Two PS3 titles in the top 10? What is this world coming to.

[beloved one]

Personally, from a hard-core gamer perspective, I thought it would be a banner month for xbox360/ps3 with the release of the Best Game Ever. I bought Mario Kart, but felt little interest towards it.

I should have known though -- we got my grandmother Mario Kart for her birthday. It's what she wanted. She played it once, at a relative's house after it came out. She liked playing it and wanted it over for when the kids were around.

Because of the silly wheel, I could actually see getting it for all the people I know of the older but newly gaming wii set. Obviously, GTA4 has the opposite reaction with this new main stream of video game consumers.

In my area, some stores have wii fit sold out of pre-orders, and I'm considering purchasing it and a wii for some older family members.

[mouselock]

Is the 360 still supply constrained for this period, or has the PS3 taken a huge leap in competitiveness?

[forgeforsaken]

Is the 360 still supply constrained for this period, or has the PS3 taken a huge leap in competitiveness?

They both stunk up the joint and dropped from last month despite having one of their biggest titles of the year released. Here was last month.
March Xbox 360: 262K
March PS3: 257K

[Rorschach]

Huge leap meaning it sells comparable to the X360 which has a year of time and X millions of sold units head start? Yeah it looks like. Price cut and games to play makes sense it should join the ranks of the console that isn't a mainstream breakthrough.

[Sarkus]

Is the 360 still supply constrained for this period, or has the PS3 taken a huge leap in competitiveness?

I don't think the 360 is supply constrained anymore and the PS3 has been competitive since January. However, there is still debate over how much of Sony's jump is a result of gamers and how much is the victory of blu-ray and the PS3's position as the best blu-ray player on the market in terms of video playback features and price.

What I think both MS and Sony should be concerned about is that GTAIV does not seem to have driven any hardware sales. Last month both systems did about 260k in US sales, but it was a 5 week month instead of 4 weeks for April. Sales are about the same on a weekly basis.

[Jason Becker]

They both stunk up the joint and dropped from last month despite having one of their biggest titles of the year released.

Yea wasn't a big topic among gamer pundits about which system would get a bigger bump from all the people who have been on the fence and saw GTA IV as the game to finally get them to guy? Well the answer so far seem to be neither, and they both dropped from last month.

[mouselock]

Huge leap meaning it sells comparable to the X360 which has a year of time and X millions of sold units head start?

Compared to last year's 2:1 favoring of 360, I'd call parity a pretty huge leap in competitiveness. Not that the 360 is threatened or anything, mind. Just that parity is a lot better than I recall it having sold. Considering I desperately want to buy a PS3 as a Blu-Ray player and can't find enough reasons (Ratchet and Clank and Drake being it so far) to justify doing so, I'm impressed that it's picking up momentum right now at all. The gamescape for the PS3 seems like an utter wasteland compared to the 360 which has more or less the same stuff, plus.

[JD]

Definitely would have expected the PS360 numbers to be somewhat higher thanks to GTA IV.

-Julian

[Traumahound]

The Wii singlehandedly outsold every non-Nintendo piece of hardware combined. In the same month GTA4 came out. That's hilariously crazy.

[runesword forger]

Maybe the recession is helping the least expensive console?

Ah, I give up trying to figure it out. I thought the Wii would compete, but jebus.

Am finally finishing up Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn, with Mario Kart and Boom Blox next up. I imagine it doesn't suit the hardcore, but I'm really happy with the Wii.

[forgeforsaken]

And people think MGS4 is going to move hardware?

[jim crawford]

Is two days of data enough to draw conclusions on whether GTA 4 is moving hardware?

[Jason Becker]

Is two days of data enough to draw conclusions on whether GTA 4 is moving hardware?

Not conclusively but you would think that even a small bump would have occurred. I mean its not like the whole planet didn't know GTA IV was coming out so if there were people waiting to get either system I'd think some of them would have made the move.

[Andrew Mayer]

I can't believe they're still holding those prices for these boxes.
It's beyond ridiculous.

[forgeforsaken]

I think it's 5 days too for GTA as I'm pretty sure this cycle covers the first few days of May as well.

[BDGE]

Where are all these Wii's being sold anyway? I have at least a few friends that have been looking for at least a year now.

[Jon_Danger]

The moon is in the seventh house, and the blood moon is rising.

The 4 riders are on the horizon,

Iwata, Miyamoto, Reggie, Yamauchi

Wii will not be spared.

[Charlatan]

I FINALLY picked up a Wii by wandering into a Target one morning before I went into the office - around 8 AM. Saw a couple in the cabinet and decided it would make a great graduation present for my son - and if he doesn't want it, I'll keep it. Even with all the Wiis being sold I hadn't seen one in stores siince maybe last October. BDGE I think the shelf life of these guys is still measured in hours. Incredible.

[BDGE]

The moon is in the seventh house, and the blood moon is rising.

The 4 riders are on the horizon,

Iwata, Miyamoto, Reggie, Yamauchi

Wii will not be spared.

Sad thing, I desperately need another Wiimote finally, and thus will be supporting Wii Play dominance on next months NPD charts. Oh and while I'm at the store, I might as well buy that Wii Fit thing...I mean it's right there behind the register!

[Angie Gallant]

Where are all these Wii's being sold anyway? I have at least a few friends that have been looking for at least a year now.

Apparently you still have to wait in line before the store opens.

[Jon_Danger]

some great GIF's in the NeoGAF thread.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff91/donny2112_gaf/apr2008.gif

[BDGE]

I FINALLY picked up a Wii by wandering into a Target one morning before I went into the office - around 8 AM. Saw a couple in the cabinet and decided it would make a great graduation present for my son - and if he doesn't want it, I'll keep it. Even with all the Wiis being sold I hadn't seen one in stores siince maybe last October. BDGE I think the shelf life of these guys is still measured in hours. Incredible.

Yea my brother lucked out at Costco in San Diego last month and snagged a bundle with Mario Galaxy and Mario Kart. Great deal really, but he mentioned how few were left. The guy also has never bought a videogame in his life, or cared about them since as long as I have known him. He can't stop playing Mario Kart and it shocks me. Nintendo really has captivated the non-gamer curiosity.

I have never seen a Wii in stock anywhere since I lucked out on launch day waiting in line at Best Buy.

[BacteriaEP]

some great GIF's in the NeoGAF thread.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff91/donny2112_gaf/apr2008.gif

I almost feel bad for Sony and Microsoft...

[Rorschach]

Quoting Chris Kohler (http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/05/npd-spin-first.html) for the mutha' fucking truth:

Lesson to be learned for both Microsoft and Sony: If GTA IV didn't bump sales of your hardware significantly, no software can. Price drops will.

[RickH]

I have never seen a Wii in stock anywhere since I lucked out on launch day waiting in line at Best Buy.

I finally spotted two in the wild at a Target. I imagine they weren't there for long.

[jfletch]

Does anyone think the high prices of the PS3 and 360 are without a doubt holding them back significantly? Especially with the economy being what it is? I really think it is long overdue for these guys to start their price drops. There's no reason why they shouldn't have moved 500K in a month when GTA4 came out.

[Sarkus]

Does anyone think the high prices of the PS3 and 360 are without a doubt holding them back significantly? Especially with the economy being what it is? I really think it is long overdue for these guys to start their price drops. There's no reason why they shouldn't have moved 500K in a month when GTA4 came out.

I understand Sony's reluctance but I don't understand what MS is doing. It's like they are only thinking in terms of Sony. That might be smart, to a point, but it's getting ridiculous.

We're two and a half years into the 360's lifespan and it still isn't $299.99. I would never had guessed that in 2005.

[Jason Becker]

I understand Sony's reluctance but I don't understand what MS is doing. It's like they are only thinking in terms of Sony. That might be smart, to a point, but it's getting ridiculous.

We're two and a half years into the 360's lifespan and it still isn't $299.99. I would never had guessed that in 2005.

I'm guess the $1 billion charge they took for the HW problems has something to do with it.

[DeathMonkey]

Does anyone think the high prices of the PS3 and 360 are without a doubt holding them back significantly?

I think both will see sales improvements with price drops, but the war is already over.

It's insane that the 360 and PS3 will have to cost the same (or less!) than the Wii to move a significant number of units, but regardless of the price I don't see either of them outselling the Wii this hardware cycle. I also can't see Nintendo budging on their price for another two years, at least in the States.

[jfletch]

I don't quite think its that insane. For most people, videogame consoles are a luxury item. $400 is lot more than $250, even if you are getting more for that extra money. Its a fact that sales of systems in the past haven't really taken off until they hit the $199 mark. Now, if the 360 were $199 I highly doubt Nintendo would keep the price at $249 for very long.

[DeathMonkey]

Now, if the 360 were $199 I highly doubt Nintendo would keep the price at $249 for very long.

I don't believe the 360/PS3 market overlaps much with the Wii market. I think you could drop the 360/PS3 price to $100 and the Wii would continue to be sold out in the US for the foreseeable future at $250, particularly with Wii Fit coming out soon.

Either way, I think we'll have the answers to these price drop questions fairly soon.

[Gunmetal]

I finally spotted two in the wild at a Target. I imagine they weren't there for long.

I saw four of 'em at the local HMV of all places. I immediately bought all of them, took them home, dumped them in the barbecue pit and cleansed them with fire. Do your part for the HD generation, people!

[Bahimiron]

I saw four of 'em at the local HMV of all places. I immediately bought all of them, took them home, dumped them in the barbecue pit and cleansed them with fire. Do your part for the HD generation, people!

By supporting Nintendo with a thousand dollars worth of encouragement?

[Sarkus]

Bill Harris did his usual interesting analysis of the numbers. One thing he pointed out is that Sony doesn't seem to expect a big uptick in sales in the next year for the PS3. In fact, they are forecasting a very small increase in sales over the year just ended.

[Jason Becker]

Bill Harris did his usual interesting analysis of the numbers. One thing he pointed out is that Sony doesn't seem to expect a big uptick in sales in the next year for the PS3. In fact, they are forecasting a very small increase in sales over the year just ended.

They seem really big on usiing that whole "10 year plan" for the PS3 as the reason for the current number not being very important. Although the more I see the monthly numbers it sounds like just a convenient excuse for them. So they can keep saying "Hey who cares about the numbers right now, wait till 2011 and you'll see the turn around happen..."

[E-phonk]

I understand Sony's reluctance but I don't understand what MS is doing. It's like they are only thinking in terms of Sony. That might be smart, to a point, but it's getting ridiculous.


In Europe the 360 arcade(199) is 50€ cheaper then the Wii (250€) and it still doesn't help sales.

[Draikin]

When you dont drop the price, April is usually the slowest month of the year.

PS2 2002: 204,863
PS2 2003: 264,273
PS2 2004: 188,669

In Europe the 360 arcade(199) is 50€ cheaper then the Wii (250€) and it still doesn't help sales.
It helped sales even if they're still behind the PS3. In the US where it's already ahead of the PS3 the result would be different.

[Ridah]

The Wii and the PS3/360 are targeting two different markets, if the Wii didn't exist the sales numbers would probably be almost exactly the same. I don't understand this "Wii is winning" stuff, it's like saying the Honda Civic is beating the Audi A6....

[Alex Hopkinson]

Just for comparison, the UK prices are (all taken from Amazon):

£284.99 - PS3 40GB
£249.99 - 360 Elite
£189.99 - 360 Normal/Premium/Whatever
£179.98 - Wii
£149.99 - 360 Arcade

[arctangent]

Huge numbers of Wiis are being purchased by seniors and senior's care providers as essentially fun exercise machines for people with physical issues.

I'm told that the bowling and tennis games are especially popular with the old peeps.

[shang]

The Wii and the PS3/360 are targeting two different markets, if the Wii didn't exist the sales numbers would probably be almost exactly the same. I don't understand this "Wii is winning" stuff, it's like saying the Honda Civic is beating the Audi A6....

It's hard to say how true this really is. For me personally, the 360, Wii and PS3 all compete for my limited entertainment budget. I might have bought the PS3, for example, if I hadn't already spent my money on the 360 and Wii.

For consoles, I usually end up eventually buying every hardware in a generation, but for software purchases, the Wii and 360 compete every month. If I end up buying several Wii games, I won't spend as much money on 360 games and vice versa.

[Cal]

I dont normally touch these statistics threads with a bargepoll, people are saying that they expected GTA to sell more software and more hardware, but if i recall it was only released on the 29th april wasn't it? 1.9m and 1m sales in a few days seems pretty good to me. Hell i would kill for sales like that!

Surely the people who will buy a console solely for gta4 have waited years anyway and likely wouldnt rush out to do it between apr 29 and april 31? I would have thought may would show up any hardware spikes for the two HD consoles, rather than just a few days in april.

The Wii really is Opium for the masses. I still know many parents being unable to buy one for their kids as no stock to be found anywhere. It goes to show what a big influence the under 13's have on their parents in buying up these things! Then again, from my opinion the Wii doesn't really appeal to the hardcore gamer and older gamer, so don't expect it to reach the what? 35-45m the PS2 must have sold over the years? MS and Sony must be praying that the Wii keeps on making its party type games, and the Mario franchise, and doesnt start making some FPS/Racing Genres to try and get some of the traditional MS/Sony crowd onboard.

[Ryan Markel]

Then again, from my opinion the Wii doesn't really appeal to the hardcore gamer and older gamer...

Then please explain to me why some nights I have to almost force myself away from Mario Kart and Boom Blox to get around to finishing GTA4.

Even the "hardcore" can feel the pull of the Wii.

[Cal]

Then please explain to me why some nights I have to almost force myself away from Mario Kart and Boom Blox to get around to finishing GTA4.

Even the "hardcore" can feel the pull of the Wii.

Sorry, im not saying the more traditional hardcore gamer doesnt play one, hell my family has one, but for me it only comes out at a few parties and when my son has friends around. It's just my experience that people who own the 360 and the Wii, tend to buy games for the 360 and spend much more time with the 360. My son says the Wii is much better, but then only nags me for new games on the 360!! He is happy to just play Wii Sports over and over.

[shang]

In my case, I think the fact that I also have a gaming PC makes me buy a lot less 360 games. I'd rather play FPS and strategy games on the PC, so that kinda limits my options. The last 360 games I bought were Assassin's Creed and Mass Effect, and I never would've bought the 360 versions if I hadn't gotten really good pre-order deals for them.

Dead Rising and Senko no Ronde are about the only really unique gaming experience that I can think of that are exclusive to the 360 and those plus Earth Defense Force were basically the reason I bought the console back then. Nowadays it's mostly gathering dust as I game on the PC + Wii.

[Dave Long]

Then again, from my opinion the Wii doesn't really appeal to the hardcore gamer and older gamer, so don't expect it to reach the what? 35-45m the PS2 must have sold over the years? MS and Sony must be praying that the Wii keeps on making its party type games, and the Mario franchise, and doesnt start making some FPS/Racing Genres to try and get some of the traditional MS/Sony crowd onboard.
This is outrageously ridiculous speculation. You think there are 35-45 million "hardcore" gamers?

[RickH]

By supporting Nintendo with a thousand dollars worth of encouragement?

Think of all the tie-in software sales he deprived them of.

[RickH]

Then please explain to me why some nights I have to almost force myself away from Mario Kart and Boom Blox to get around to finishing GTA4.

Even the "hardcore" can feel the pull of the Wii.

Ha! The same thing's happening in my house. If you're not enamored of friends lists, Maro Kart Wii's online multiplayer is impressively smooth and and pleasantly chat-free.

Boom Blox is pretty good, but I'm not convinced it's $50 good.

[Helboi]

I'm impressed that it's picking up momentum right now at all. The gamescape for the PS3 seems like an utter wasteland compared to the 360 which has more or less the same stuff, plus.

Wasteland? I suppose so, if you're not counting MGS4, Little Big Planet, Haze, Gran Turismo 5, etc. (I know there are more I can't think of at this early hour).

[Jason McMaster]

I almost feel bad for Sony and Microsoft...

Why? When those people who purchased the Wii realize that it's only really entertaining for a week or so, maybe they'll purchase another system. Also, it's not like they're competing for the same market either. We've reached a point in the lifetime of these systems where they probably aren't going to be blasting through new systems all the time.

If this has been within the first few months of launch, I'd be impressed, but this is quite some time afterwards.

Sorry if I'm not amazed by NPD reports from April, AKA the beginning of the worst season for video games in general, especially since Nintendo has released one of its 4 games (the Nintendo standard of releasing 3-4 good games per console is right on track) that will be enjoyable on the Wii.

[Helboi]

Does anyone think the high prices of the PS3 and 360 are without a doubt holding them back significantly? Especially with the economy being what it is? I really think it is long overdue for these guys to start their price drops. There's no reason why they shouldn't have moved 500K in a month when GTA4 came out.

I think the price certainly has something to do with it. But I don't think price drops are in the cards; I mean Sony is still losing $200+ on each PS3 they sell. But Sony doesn't have much to be worried about, what with sales of the PSP and the PS2.

[Rob_Merritt]

Can't we just accept that the Wii is going to win this generation far and square and move on? Sure, it doesn't have the games nor the experiences that most of us here want to play but it isn't like the games and systems we want to play aren't available.

[Jazar]

Can't we just accept that the Wii is going to win this generation far and square and move on? Sure, it doesn't have the games nor the experiences that most of us here want to play but it isn't like the games and systems we want to play aren't available.

I wonder how this will affect the next generation of consoles. It seems that in the console wars, he who has the least powerful system wins.

[Cal]

This is outrageously ridiculous speculation. You think there are 35-45 million "hardcore" gamers?


Of course not. Thats what the PS2 sold, and i beleive the Wii wont hit that target by targeting casuals and kids, and parents of kids alone. And if you quoted the rest of my post i went on to say that if they target more typically 360/PS3 genres they will be unstopable. The Wii is so easy to program for i can see it pumping out a lot of party type games non stop for years to come, Whereas the PS3 game me severe headaches, and the 360 was inbetween the two. I Hope the Wii switches tactics further down the line.

[LesJarvis]

Sony has actually sold about 125 million PS2s worldwide, just FYI.

[Rob_Merritt]

I wonder how this will affect the next generation of consoles. It seems that in the console wars, he who has the least powerful system wins.

Quite often but its also who has the most affordable system.

[Omniscia]

I think I'll pick up a PS3 in July.

That way, my tax refund will have arrived by then, and if I pick it up at Costco on the two-day sales tax holiday, it saves me a few bucks and gives me the peace of mind of their return policy.

[quatoria]

Ha! The same thing's happening in my house. If you're not enamored of friends lists, Maro Kart Wii's online multiplayer is impressively smooth and and pleasantly chat-free.


Not enamored of friends lists? Why wouldn't you want to play games with your friends? And talk to them? Do you not have any friends, Rick?

[WarrenM]

Do you not have any friends, Rick?
and pleasantly chat-free.
The prosecution rests.

[Gunmetal]

Think of all the tie-in software sales he deprived them of.

Well... about that.... somehow I got talked into pre-ordering 4 copies of Wii Fit.

[Bill Dungsroman]

Dead Rising and Senko no Ronde are about the only really unique gaming experience that I can think of that are exclusive to the 360 and those plus Earth Defense Force were basically the reason I bought the console back then. Nowadays it's mostly gathering dust as I game on the PC + Wii.

I'm not saying you're in the minority shang, but I'm not entirely certain you're in the majority either.

[Case]

I'm not saying you're in the minority shang, but I'm not entirely certain you're in the majority either.

I think this is a prescient comment.

The gaming market is much more fragmented than even in the days of the PS / Sega / Nintendo wars. Now we have handhelds -- including iPhone / iPod. My younger daughter plays Peggle on her iPod Classic.

Plus we have three very viable consoles. While the Wii is going gangbusters, none of them are really weak, in the sense that none will simply fall by the wayside. This attests to the overall strength of the gaming market -- it's much bigger than in the previous console era.

Then we have the PCs, including the casual games market, which seems to be growing faster than most other segments, and not particularly tracked well. Plus MMOs, which are as big as the entire games industry a decade ago.

So enjoy what you're playing. These days, no one needs to feel inadequate about what platform they're on. If some cool game runs on a platform you don't have... well, there's probably something equally cool on the platform you do own.

[steve]

Then we have the PCs, including the casual games market, which seems to be growing faster than most other segments, and not particularly tracked well. Plus MMOs, which are as big as the entire games industry a decade ago.
In the long-term, console manufacturers should be concerned about kids growing up with amazing free-to-play games. From Kongregate to all the MMOs, you can get amazing game experiences without having to pay a penny.

[Jon_Danger]

Fuck console warz. Seriously

Who cares who wins? Nobody can even win this "race" when is the finish? 5 years from now do we count numbers? Do they get a trophy? There really are no real rewards for winning when there is such a divide between the abilities of the machines. The wii should be put in its own bracket, since the technology in the machine is not comparable. Companies that want to make HD games for the 360/PC/PS3 will do just that, people that want to make Wii games will do just that. Both sides have a large enough install base to justify making a game. If anything GTA4 proves that you can make a non-wii game that sells gangbusters. If these charts prove anything it is that the 360 and PS3 are not selling well because they cost too much. Hardware sales are not jumping because everyone who buy a 360/PS3 for 400 bucks already have.

Drop The Price.

Go!

[nijimeijer]

In the long-term, console manufacturers should be concerned about kids growing up with amazing free-to-play games. From Kongregate to all the MMOs, you can get amazing game experiences without having to pay a penny.

I don't think manufacturers have to worry as much. At some point, they may switch over to something like a cable TV/On Demand/Tivo model. However, "major" games will still sell the boxes outside of those revenue streams. I think it's software devs that have to worry; they will either have to adapt to making games that support that model, or make sure that they're making "the next big thing." Since those studios/pubs that regularly churn out "the next big thing" are usually okay financially (and can absorb a loss or two on that model), it's the middling to small devs that are probably going to be shocked the most if the market moves in that direction.

Of course, I'm probably 100% wrong, because I'm not a fortune teller.

[Helboi]

I love the console war...as long as it means that every one of them will continue the battle for a loooong time and none of them drops out (like Sega did after the Dreamcast). I say, the more the merrier.

[E-phonk]

I dont normally touch these statistics threads with a bargepoll, people are saying that they expected GTA to sell more software and more hardware, but if i recall it was only released on the 29th april wasn't it? 1.9m and 1m sales in a few days seems pretty good to me. Hell i would kill for sales like that!

It counts for 5 days of GTA sales. The problem isn't really the sale ratio of GTA, I think the game is doing more then allright, it's the lack of hardware boost. Almost everybody (gamers, analysts, hardware manufacturers, the gaming press) expected GTA to boost both platforms - in anticipation and on releaseday, argumenting which platform would benefit the most from "THE next-gen game that everybody has to play" - it's the only multiplatform game since launch (next to madden etc) that should have that kind of impact... and it didn't. In contrary, hardware is seriously low for both.

[Dave Long]

Analysts change their tune.

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=10529&Itemid=2

[Draikin]

In contrary, hardware is seriously low for both.
They're both quite close to PS2 numbers, it's impressive considering their price. I dont get why "analysts" never look at NPD from past years. May numbers will be up (like they always do) and those idiots will claim it's because of GTA4.

PS2 March 2002: 362,408
PS2 April 2002: 204,863 (-43%)

PS2 March 2003: 410,704
PS2 April 2003: 264,273 (-35%)

PS2 March 2004: 294,437
PS2 April 2004: 188,669 (-36%)

PS2 March 2005: 495,000
PS2 April 2005: 332,000 (-33%)

PS3 March 2007: 130,000
PS3 April 2007: 82,000 (-37%)

PS3 March 2008: 257,000
PS3 April 2008: 187,000 (-27%)

X360 March 2007: 199,000
X360 April 2007: 174,000 (-13%)

X360 March 2008: 262,000
X360 April 2008: 188,000 (-28%)

In fact, GTA4 had a positive effect on hardware sales but not as good as the release of the 360 Elite last year. In term of harware boost: price drop > new SKU > blockbuster game

[RickH]

Not enamored of friends lists? Why wouldn't you want to play games with your friends? And talk to them? Do you not have any friends, Rick?

I do, but they are resolutely non-gamers. Go figure.

[guidoguido]

I understand why people feel the need to subdivide the industry, to say that the Wii "isn't competing" with the other two consoles, but it doesn't have much truth to it, honestly. The Wii has achieved a certain level of differentiation, but having worked in a games retailer, I have people all the time asking about the differences between the consoles so that they can make a decision between them.

Similarly, they compete for entertainment dollars from those people who have both (which is a small number), to say nothing of development resources from third-party companies.

People saying that "they're not really in competition" are ultimately being silly. Unless by that you mean "they've done such a good job we just can't really compete" then I would probably agree.

[merryprankster]

I'm not sure the Wii is in competition with the other consoles. I think that the type of gamer that wants a wii is not the same as the type that wants a PS360. I actually owned all three for a bit, but ended up giving the Wii to my nephew since i never used it. But a lot of my uncles (especially ones with tween kids) have them and they play Wii sports for family night. I'm 31 and my uncles are all at least mid 50's so they did not grow up on games and Wii and gaming is totally new to them, but they really enjoy it. I go over for game night from time to time and it's a ball, but for me at 2 am i want a 360 controller clutched in my hand as i fight for my life online in CoD4. I've actually tried to get some of the older generation over to the house for beers and Halo, but after a few minutes of co-op (on easy) they just have no interest, the basic premise is just to forign. It truly is 2 very, very different experiences, and while the Wii is definately bringing gaming to a much, much broader audience, i don't think it is a stepping stone for these people to become avid gamers. I really think that the Wii is more about quality family time for a huge percentage of those playing them than it is about "gaming".

Also i wonder what attach rates for the Wii are? Most of the "family" gamers I know have very small game libraries (2-3 titiles at most), and are pretty conent to just play Wii Sports. A stark contrast to the 30 something or so titles that i have bought and played this generation. Again I think that the Wii experience is fundamentally a different one from the "hardcore gamer" experience.

don't get me wrong i'm not trying to divide the gameerscape up into highly defined, inflexable catagories, but these are just some of my observations. It might be interesting to note that many of my "girlfriends" also really like the Wii, and trust me these girls are more the shoe and handbag crowd (gross generalization, but you get my meaning). Just one last example of the stark contrast of appeal that the Wii has as compared to the PS360.

[Sarkus]

The Wii is in competition with the 360 and PS3, but only in the relatively narrow market the 360 and PS3 are really aimed at. The difference here is that a lot of the Wii's sales are going to people who would likely never have purchased a video game system to begin with and have no interest in the other two systems.

It's like MS and Sony are selling water and marketing it on it's hydration benefits. Along came Nintendo with juice. They are competing with MS and Sony's water because their juice also hydrates, but they also have another market of people who also want something that tastes differently than water.

[Sarkus]

Also i wonder what attach rates for the Wii are? Most of the "family" gamers I know have very small game libraries (2-3 titiles at most), and are pretty conent to just play Wii Sports. A stark contrast to the 30 something or so titles that i have bought and played this generation. Again I think that the Wii experience is fundamentally a different one from the "hardcore gamer" experience.


The most recent numbers I've seen showed the 360 had an attach rate just under five while the Wii was just under four. When you factor in the automatic +1 the Wii gets for Wii sports in that calculation and the benefit they get from the Wii Play/controller bundle pack, you could argue that Nintendo's attach rate is weaker than it looks. On the other hand, you could argue that by giving everyone Wii Sports and Wii Play in such deals, Nintendo has actually "shot itself in the foot" by supplying premier titles without getting the full financial benefit. So, you can go each way and there are also those who argue about the accuracy of published attach rate numbers to begin with.

[merryprankster]

nice anolgy...way to make me look verbose:)

The Wii is in competition with the 360 and PS3, but only in the relatively narrow market the 360 and PS3 are really aimed at. The difference here is that a lot of the Wii's sales are going to people who would likely never have purchased a video game system to begin with and have no interest in the other two systems.

It's like MS and Sony are selling water and marketing it on it's hydration benefits. Along came Nintendo with juice. They are competing with MS and Sony's water because their juice also hydrates, but they also have another market of people who also want something that tastes differently than water.

[Cossix]

Man I don't know anyone that thinks that Wii Play is a "premier title". I do know like three other people that only own a Wii and Wii Sports though.

[Sarkus]

Man I don't know anyone that thinks that Wii Play is a "premier title". I do know like three other people that only own a Wii and Wii Sports though.

Well, I was mainly referring to Wii Sports. However, I do think Wii Play's general similarity (i.e. mini game format) would have made it a likely high seller even if it hadn't been packaged with a controller. Not as high selling as it is, though.

[Rimbo]

People saying that "they're not really in competition" are ultimately being silly. Unless by that you mean "they've done such a good job we just can't really compete" then I would probably agree.

I'd agree with that. I'd also agree that the Wii is targeting a different kind of gamer. The two are not necessarily contradictory. In other words, by targeting a different kind of gamer, the Wii is doing such a good job that the other two can't really compete.

Not everyone wants to play what passes for AAA titles these days. In fact, most people are turned off by the difficulty and the violence. And this is as it should be.

[RickH]

An area where all 3 consoles definitely compete is retail shelf space. One of the Targets haunt for clearance deals just took away a retail "unit" of shelves from the PS3 and clearanced a bunch of games. Now, 360, DS, & Wii have 2 blocks, PS3, PSP, and PS2 have 1. Conclusion: PS3's losing ground.

[Dave Long]

An area where all 3 consoles definitely compete is retail shelf space. One of the Targets haunt for clearance deals just took away a retail "unit" of shelves from the PS3 and clearanced a bunch of games. Now, 360, DS, & Wii have 2 blocks, PS3, PSP, and PS2 have 1. Conclusion: PS3's losing ground.
Yup, and this has happened at Gamestop stores too. They've recently upped the amount of space for Wii and DS games at all four stores near me.

[Gaming-Module]

One factor affecting Microsoft I'm guessing is the hardware failure issue, which has been talked about far and wide. Personally, I was on a 360 roll playing games and buying DLC until mine crapped out on me. It tooks many months to resolve things and get a system back. By that time I was enjoying the Wii and just never really got back into the 360 like I was. I notice a similar decline in enthusiasm towards the 360 on various forums too.

There really is no excuse for this, because the 360 lineup is better than any console in history, save the SNES. I honestly think people are just avoiding it due to the reputation of the hardware.

[Robert Sharp]

The PS2 had a pretty awesome set of games, especially if you include the PSX games you could play on it. But for the length of time it's been out, yeah, the 360 is amazing.

[Shadari]

I honestly think people are just avoiding it due to the reputation of the hardware.
I've avoided it thus far because a good chunk of its game library is available on the PC.

[Qmanol]

I'll agree that the 360 software lineup is excellent. I have avoided it and am now going to get a Wii largely because of the hardware problems. (also because I have a young daughter and no HDTV.)

What I would like to see is some more 'hardcore', non-first-party games for the Wii - sure, you can't do cutting edge graphics, but you can certainly do pretty well within the confines of the SDTV resolution. RE4-level is what I'm after, but it doesn't count, as it's just a GC port.

I think a bigger reason for my mild aversion to the two HD consoles is just that I don't have time to play these sorts of epic-length games anymore. But games I can play with my wife or daughter in short bursts are a far more attractive prospect.

[Robert Sharp]

There are lots of quick play games on the 360, especially if you include Arcade. Even the bigger budget games like Gears of War can be relatively short (that game seemed short, though not as short as the single-player Halo3.)

[Qmanol]

I must say, XBLA is the one thing that really makes me regret my lack of 360. But at the same time, why should I buy a $AU600 console to play indie games? And FPSes are not really my preference.

[Factory]

What I would like to see is some more 'hardcore', non-first-party games for the Wii - sure, you can't do cutting edge graphics, but you can certainly do pretty well within the confines of the SDTV resolution. RE4-level is what I'm after, but it doesn't count, as it's just a GC port.

I don't think you'll ever see the amount of 'hardcore' games on the wii as you see on other consoles. The hardcore set wants graphics and the wii just cannot provide that as well as ps3/360/pc can.
You might see the likes of Nippon Ichi games getting ported, since they are in genres where cutting edge graphics are not seen as being required. But for games like RE4, they would sell like crap on the Wii since the versions for other consoles would look so much better.

[DeathMonkey]

I must say, XBLA is the one thing that really makes me regret my lack of 360. But at the same time, why should I buy a $AU600 console to play indie games? And FPSes are not really my preference.

Yeah, I like my 360, particularly XBLA, but it's tough for me to love when most of the AAA games are shooters. I play my share, but when I feel like playing something else the 360 lineup thins out pretty quick.

[DeathMonkey]

What I would like to see is some more 'hardcore', non-first-party games for the Wii - sure, you can't do cutting edge graphics, but you can certainly do pretty well within the confines of the SDTV resolution. RE4-level is what I'm after, but it doesn't count, as it's just a GC port.

If you can get into soccer games at all, Pro Evolution Soccer 2008 on the Wii is fantastic. It's a sports RTS game and the input style makes it an experience that can't be reproduced on the PS3 or 360.

[Qmanol]

I don't think you'll ever see the amount of 'hardcore' games on the wii as you see on other consoles. The hardcore set wants graphics and the wii just cannot provide that as well as ps3/360/pc can.
You might see the likes of Nippon Ichi games getting ported, since they are in genres where cutting edge graphics are not seen as being required. But for games like RE4, they would sell like crap on the Wii since the versions for other consoles would look so much better.

Oh, I don't expect a library to compete with the 360, it'd just be nice to see a few more than the tiny handful that exist already. As for the graphics lust, I seem to have lost that somewhere along the way.

[tromik]

Top 10 VG Titles - April'08
Units*
1. 360 GTA IV 1.85mm
2. Wii Mario Kart w/ wheel 1.12mm
3. PS3 GTA IV 1.00mm
4. Wii Play 360K
5. Wii Super Smash Bros. Brawl 326K
6. PS3 Gran Turismo 5: Prologue 224K
7. DS Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Darkness 202K
8. DS Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Time 202K
9. Wii Guitar Hero III 152K
10. 360 Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 141K
Sorry, I don't usually follow the NDP numbers. What's the "*" for?

[forgeforsaken]

Sorry, I don't usually follow the NDP numbers. What's the "*" for?

*includes bundles, collector's editions, GOTY editions

[RickH]

But for games like RE4, they would sell like crap on the Wii since the versions for other consoles would look so much better.

Did you mean RE5? I thought Capcom was pretty pleased with the way RE4 sold on the Wii.

[Ridah]

My point is, say the Wii didn't exist, do you really think the 700k a month sales the Wii racks up would be divided between the 360 and PS3? Both systems might see a 50-60k per month boost in sales but I can't see it being much higher than that. I firmly believe that the Wii is not stealing any breath away from MS and Sony in terms of hardware sales.

[guidoguido]

The one somewhat ironic about the situation with the Wii is that Nintendo's reputation for being "kiddy" or, to put it another way, "family friendly" was once considered an albatross around its' neck. But, combined with many other factors, the fact that it is the de facto console to get for kids now has helped its' sales tremendously.

Microsoft, with its' ever intensifying appeal to the "core" of the market made their consoles a difficult proposition for people who want games to play with their kids. I remember trying to sell 360's in mid-2006, and parents just looking dumbstruck at how little content there was for their younger children to play. Once the Wii came out, it became the default choice. And today, outside of licensed games, the situation hasn't improved much, and with the release of such games as GTA IV, Halo 3, etc. the lineup appears even more kid-unfriendly than ever, which will continue to be problem for them.

You add the appeal to non-traditional gamers ,women gamers and the Nintendo loyalists into the mix with the family games sector that the Wii seems to dominate right now and you have a pretty unbeatable mix.

[Spasticon]

My point is, say the Wii didn't exist, do you really think the 700k a month sales the Wii racks up would be divided between the 360 and PS3? Both systems might see a 50-60k per month boost in sales but I can't see it being much higher than that. I firmly believe that the Wii is not stealing any breath away from MS and Sony in terms of hardware sales.

Good point. I also believe Wiis are going to people who wouldn't ordinarily buy a console in the first place.

[mkozlows]

Microsoft, with its' ever intensifying appeal to the "core" of the market made their consoles a difficult proposition for people who want games to play with their kids. I remember trying to sell 360's in mid-2006, and parents just looking dumbstruck at how little content there was for their younger children to play.

It's not really "intensifying," though. I mean, one of the whole points of the 360 was that it was supposed to be softer, friendlier, and less grr-arghy. And they've certainly done their best to push the family-friendly games that they have -- Viva Pinata, Scene-It, and the like. It's just that the market isn't really cooperating with their clear desire to make the 360 a console that the whole family enjoys.

[DeathMonkey]

It's not really "intensifying," though. I mean, one of the whole points of the 360 was that it was supposed to be softer, friendlier, and less grr-arghy. And they've certainly done their best to push the family-friendly games that they have -- Viva Pinata, Scene-It, and the like. It's just that the market isn't really cooperating with their clear desire to make the 360 a console that the whole family enjoys.

I don't think it's that simple; the DNA of the 360 is to be the ultimate realization of the western gamer. Achievements, gamer scores, and ladder feed the people that are already within the culture and want to compete, but is a turn off to those who just want to play a game and don't want to be judged. You can't undo that tendency with the release of some colorful E rated games; it requires a completely different philosophical approach on how games fit into people's lives.

[JD]

And they've certainly done their best to push the family-friendly games that they have -- Viva Pinata, Scene-It, and the like. It's just that the market isn't really cooperating with their clear desire to make the 360 a console that the whole family enjoys.
There's a difference between "clear desire" and "available line-up". The problem is that there is not a lot of "and the like". Viva Pinata and Scene-it are pretty much their token family games, and that simply is not enough. And XBLA isn't going to save their day either because games that are not sitting in the store shelf don't help you convince potential customers.

-Julian

[Rob_Merritt]

I was at a local Toys R Us today and they had lots of Wiis in stock. it was almost closing time and they clerk said they still had a dozen. They said that at this point, they get a shipment in on sunday and seem be be able to keep them in stock most of the week. So if you are looking for one, check TRU.

[MyNameIsWill]

I understand Sony's reluctance but I don't understand what MS is doing. It's like they are only thinking in terms of Sony. That might be smart, to a point, but it's getting ridiculous.

We're two and a half years into the 360's lifespan and it still isn't $299.99. I would never had guessed that in 2005.

This is why: (http://seekingalpha.com/article/74092-microsoft-s-xbox-division-shows-signs-of-maturing)


This is the third consecutive quarter that the division has posted a profit. Before this fiscal year, the division had only reported a profit during the quarter that Halo 2 shipped.

[mkozlows]

There's a difference between "clear desire" and "available line-up". The problem is that there is not a lot of "and the like". Viva Pinata and Scene-it are pretty much their token family games, and that simply is not enough.

Right, but it's more than they had in the Xbox 1 days, when they had basically no major family-oriented titles. I'm saying,they were clearly de-intensifying their hardcore focus back when the Wii was the Revolution.

[jfletch]

I was at a local Toys R Us today and they had lots of Wiis in stock. it was almost closing time and they clerk said they still had a dozen. They said that at this point, they get a shipment in on sunday and seem be be able to keep them in stock most of the week. So if you are looking for one, check TRU.

Likewise, me and a friend were in a local BB this afternoon and they had stacks of Wii and there was no line around them or anything.

[Sarkus]

This is why: (http://seekingalpha.com/article/74092-microsoft-s-xbox-division-shows-signs-of-maturing)

I'm aware of that, it just doesn't seem MS like to choose profitability over the opportunity to at least make Sony look bad. Despite everything, Sony still has a shot this generation and it appears to me that MS is mistaken if they think they can rest on their lead in North America and only respond if Sony does more than just match their sales.

This doesn't seem like the aggressive MS we're used to. :-)

[Talorc]

I'm aware of that, it just doesn't seem MS like to choose profitability over the opportunity to at least make Sony look bad. Despite everything, Sony still has a shot this generation and it appears to me that MS is mistaken if they think they can rest on their lead in North America and only respond if Sony does more than just match their sales.

This doesn't seem like the aggressive MS we're used to. :-)

Their sales were up to $1.58 billion for the quarter, but profit was only $39 million according to the article - a measly 2.5% of sales.

Someone sneezes wrong and that profit disappears. Any price cut would wipe out the profitability of the division in an instant.

[steve]

Sony still has a shot this generation and it appears to me that MS is mistaken if they think they can rest on their lead in North America and only respond if Sony does more than just match their sales.
Does anyone believe that if Sony surpasses the 360 that Sony wins, and somehow the 360 becomes irrelevant? Hardware is important to Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo, but for every publisher all that matters is the platform that moves games. And right now, that's the 360. If the PS3 sells more consoles, yay... assuming people buying PS3s are buying them as game systems, and choose PS3 versions over 360 versions.

[MyNameIsWill]

I'm aware of that, it just doesn't seem MS like to choose profitability over the opportunity to at least make Sony look bad. Despite everything, Sony still has a shot this generation and it appears to me that MS is mistaken if they think they can rest on their lead in North America and only respond if Sony does more than just match their sales.

This doesn't seem like the aggressive MS we're used to. :-)

I dunno. Seems like a good strategy. They spent some 7 years or so losing billions. They've stolen enough of Sony's marketshare, but shareholders made it clear that that the Xbox business had to show some sign of profitability soon. The more aggressive they are, the longer it'll take for them to start recouping losses, and they don't know what Sony has up their sleeves for next time around.

Time will tell if starting the "HD era" in 2005 was a good idea but given where they are now, I think their strategy is good.

[Moore]

Wasteland? I suppose so, if you're not counting MGS4, Little Big Planet, Haze, Gran Turismo 5, etc. (I know there are more I can't think of at this early hour).

How many of those have you been playing currently?

[Moore]

Quite often but its also who has the most affordable system.
Same thing.

[Rob_Merritt]

Same thing.

No because in the case of the 32 bit war: 3DO, PS1, N64, Saturn, the PS1 was the cheapest AND most powerful. One could argue the NES was both of its generation as well.

[LesJarvis]

The N64 was more powerful than the PS1, but it did have a shitty storage medium. It was also cheaper or competitive price-wise, so there goes that theory completely. The GC was also cheaper than the PS2 and XBOX and comparable in terms of power, but came in behind both of them in total sales. It too had a shitty storage medium that hurt its viability, since it couldn't play DVDs.

[Factory]

But for games like RE4, they would sell like crap on the Wii since the versions for other consoles would look so much better.

Did you mean RE5? I thought Capcom was pretty pleased with the way RE4 sold on the Wii.
RE4 on the Wii was a port of a last generation title, it's pretty easy to be happy with the returns on that, since they don't have to cover the initial development, just the cost of porting.
RE4 on the gamecube was very much a graphical showcase, and looked much better than it's PS2 counterpart.

[Factory]

No because in the case of the 32 bit war: 3DO, PS1, N64, Saturn, the PS1 was the cheapest AND most powerful. One could argue the NES was both of its generation as well.
3do: too expensive, games were crap (which prolly just meant bad developer support)
Saturn: targeted at doing 2d really well, didn't do 3d nearly as well
N64 & PS1: I'd argue they are both about the same in terms of power, but the PS1 was more suited to making games, with a better storage medium, and favouring lots of crappy looking polys over fewer good looking polys.

[perrinbar]

Does anyone believe that if Sony surpasses the 360 that Sony wins, and somehow the 360 becomes irrelevant? Hardware is important to Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo, but for every publisher all that matters is the platform that moves games. And right now, that's the 360. If the PS3 sells more consoles, yay... assuming people buying PS3s are buying them as game systems, and choose PS3 versions over 360 versions.

That's certainly true and currently MS is destroying Sony on that end, but that is unlikely to last worldwide for this whole console generation, given the poor sales of the 360 outside of the US and UK. Not to mention blu-ray sales do just as much good for Sony as do games, well not just as much, but every sale of Spider Man on blu-ray goes to Sony's coffers as well. The whole thing is a long term strategy. However, as I said, at the moment MS is cleaning Sony's clock. It will be more interesting to see if either MS or Sony can tap into the Wii market in the long term, in the sense that the Wii market is somewhat reflective of the later years PS2 market, I mean people are still buying those! That might decide who comes out with the most cash to brag about.

[DennyA]

That way, my tax refund will have arrived by then, and if I pick it up at Costco on the two-day sales tax holiday, it saves me a few bucks and gives me the peace of mind of their return policy.
Wait, when is this Costco sales tax holiday? Is that national?

Thinking of doing a TV upgrade, and that could save some serious cash.

[RickH]

N64 & PS1: I'd argue they are both about the same in terms of power, but the PS1 was more suited to making games, with a better storage medium, and favouring lots of crappy looking polys over fewer good looking polys.

Aint that the truth. I find all PS1 games that try to do 3D to look unforgivably bad. Which makes it even more interesting that emulators were able to take the same PS1-polys and make them look much better.

That reminds me, anybody want a Bleem! disc?

[strategy]

Of course not. Thats what the PS2 sold, and i beleive the Wii wont hit that target by targeting casuals and kids, and parents of kids alone.

You're probably right; I suspect it'll outsell the PS2 massively. Do you really think there are more hardcore gamers than casual gamers, kids, and parents of kids? :-D

[Jason McMaster]

You're probably right; I suspect it'll outsell the PS2 massively. Do you really think there are more hardcore gamers than casual gamers, kids, and parents of kids? :-D

No, but hardcore gamers have a much higher attach rate than any other I'd imagine. After the kids are tired of Wii Sports they'll get a couple more Wii games, but Nintendo's track record of releasing very few games per generation doesn't say much for software sales.

[intruder]

No, but hardcore gamers have a much higher attach rate than any other I'd imagine. After the kids are tired of Wii Sports they'll get a couple more Wii games, but Nintendo's track record of releasing very few games per generation doesn't say much for software sales.

Ah give me a break!
Here are the actual Top 40 for the UK (Xbox360 bastion in Europe):
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=141193

Count how many Wii games are in that one besides Wii Sports.

[Jason McMaster]

Ok, then consider the games:

Mario Kart: new Nintendo property
Wii Fit: New Novelty
Wii Play: comes with a controller

That's your top 10 for the beginning of 2008s slow time. If you want to expand to the top 40, there are plenty of Wii games in there. Hell, everyone has to go buy something to try out their new toy.

If you don't believe me, that's fine, but don't discount hardcore gamers for game sales.

[Hanzii]

The Wii won't outsell the PS2.
The PS3 will ultimately outsell or equal the Xbox 360.
This generation will have no clear winner the way the last had, but Nintendo will make a lot of money.

[Jason McMaster]

yeah, that's what I predict.

The PS3 is VERY solid when it comes to hardware, but in typical sony style, it's way too hard to develop for.

The 360 has weaker hardware and is hindered by the world's dislike of Microsoft.

Nintendo is, as always, just making games for the casual

[Xaroc]

The Wii won't outsell the PS2.
The PS3 will ultimately outsell or equal the Xbox 360.
This generation will have no clear winner the way the last had, but Nintendo will make a lot of money.

The PS3 is only slated to increase it sales over the previous year by 8.2%. When are they going to catch up to the 360? 2020?

Here is the source but anyone can do the math: http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2008/05/console-post-of-week-they-said-what.html

[Mark Asher]

What do the worldwide numbers look like? Isn't the PS3 doing better in Europe and Asia?

[Xaroc]

What do the worldwide numbers look like? Isn't the PS3 doing better in Europe and Asia?

Yes the PS3 is definitely doing way better in Japan and closer if not ahead in Europe but that 8.2% number is a worldwide number, not just a US number.

[Jazar]

The PS3 is only slated to increase it sales over the previous year by 8.2%. When are they going to catch up to the 360? 2020?


The 8.2% is an extremely conservative estimate by Sony so that when they they do go over, they can pat themselves on the back and say how great they are to exceed expectations.

[Nellie]

The 360 has weaker hardware and is hindered by the world's dislike of Microsoft.
I'm not sure that dislike of Microsoft really extends much outside the IT industry/Apple Fanboi club does it?

Apparently dodgy hardware and appealing to a fairly narrow market segment seem to me to be the biggest hinderence to the 360. My impression of the 360 remains that if I didn't have a gaming PC (or a girlfriend) and wanted to play multiplayer games over the internet then the 360 is probably the way to go. If I want a console that I can drag out when we get back from the pub and play stuff on it then I'm better off with a Wii, a PS2 or even a PS3.

[Kevin Grey]

The PS3 is only slated to increase it sales over the previous year by 8.2%. When are they going to catch up to the 360? 2020?

Here is the source but anyone can do the math: http://dubiousquality.blogspot.com/2008/05/console-post-of-week-they-said-what.html

I'm wondering if Sony isn't under pressure from other Blu-ray player manufacturers to keep the PS3's price stable for the next year? The PS3 consistently being touted as the best Blu-ray player and also one of the cheapest (if not *the* cheapest) can't be good news for Sharp, Panasonic, Denon, etc and that situation will only get worse if Sony drops the price another $50 or $100 in the next year.

[RickH]

The PS3 consistently being touted as the best Blu-ray player and also one of the cheapest (if not *the* cheapest) can't be good news for Sharp, Panasonic, Denon, etc and that situation will only get worse if Sony drops the price another $50 or $100 in the next year.

I did see a Sony Blu-ray standalone player for $395 @ Target yesterday, so the PS3 isn't technically the lowest-priced player.

[Jason McMaster]

Best value, though, for sure

[strategy]

No, but hardcore gamers have a much higher attach rate than any other I'd imagine. After the kids are tired of Wii Sports they'll get a couple more Wii games, but Nintendo's track record of releasing very few games per generation doesn't say much for software sales.

Given how much they will sell anyway, I'm sure they'll cry all the way to the bank. If your install base is double as large, it doesn't really matter if the attach rate is half as much.

The Wii won't outsell the PS2.

Not that it matters, but I wouldn't be too confident of that either. The Wii sells to people who would otherwise never even consider buying a console. Much like the Sims sold to people who didn't otherwise play computer games...

[Cossix]

The PS2 sold to SOME people that wouldn't buy a console; I knew plenty of people that bought it just for its DVD playback. I have at least four friends that own a PS2 and no games, for example.

The Wii, however, will probably outsell the PS2. I just don't see how it can't, really. Software sales for it could plummet I guess, if there's too much confusion and too much garbage released for it, but I think even that's unlikely.

[Sarkus]

Yes the PS3 is definitely doing way better in Japan and closer if not ahead in Europe but that 8.2% number is a worldwide number, not just a US number.

While the PS3 is killing the 360 in Japan, it's also in turn being killed by the Wii. It's one of the under reported aspects of this console generation, how poorly the PS3 is doing in Japan compared to how the PS1 and PS2 did.

PS3's sold in Japan: 2m
Wii's sold in Japan: almost 6m

[RickH]

While the PS3 is killing the 360 in Japan, it's also in turn being killed by the Wii. It's one of the under reported aspects of this console generation, how poorly the PS3 is doing in Japan compared to how the PS1 and PS2 did.

PS3's sold in Japan: 2m
Wii's sold in Japan: almost 6m

What's the rate of HDTV adoption in Japan?

[Qmanol]

The country that has defined a 4320p HD standard? That was doing HDTV in analog before the advent of digital broadcasting? I'd expect it to be rather high. I have no numbers though.

[gordonrumble]

From projects i've done on the state of consumer electronics in Japan, I can say that Japanese people care a lot about electronics, particularly small ones. Space is at a premium, so small, awesome gadgets are an alternative way to spend dough.

[E-phonk]

The Wii won't outsell the PS2.


If nintendo hits its own salesforecast, they are at 50 million at the end of their second (financial) year on the market. That is way ahead of ps2.

One the software side Nintendo still has big things coming, like animal crossing - and the hardcore gamers that didn't buy it yet might jump in for monster hunter 3/zelda wii etc.

Nintendo has released a lot of first party software to prepare for the 3rd party software drought they were expecting, and most of those teams are currently working on unknown projects. I wouldn't be surprised if nintendo had some cards up their sleeves for e3.

[Bob Violence]

Japanese HD penetration isn't as high as you might assume -- somewhere around one-quarter of all TV households. (This outfit (http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/with-format-war-over-blu-ray,334104.shtml) claims U.S. HD penetration is ten points higher than Japan, but I suspect their methodology inflates the non-Japanese figures.) As Gordon noted, space is not a luxury in most Japanese homes, and your typical consumer doesn't see much benefit to HD at smaller screen sizes.

[RickH]

Nintendo has released a lot of first party software to prepare for the 3rd party software drought they were expecting, and most of those teams are currently working on unknown projects. I wouldn't be surprised if nintendo had some cards up their sleeves for e3.

You're right there. I don't think there's any precedent for Nintendo to release a game for just about every major franchise this early in a console's lifespan. Zelda, Wario Ware, Fire Emblem, Mario Galaxy, Super Paper Mario, Metroid 3, Mario Kart Wii, Super Smash Bros., Mario Party, and even that Mario soccer game. What's left? Animal Crossing? Starfox? Pikmin? F-Zero? Another Luigi game?

Actually, I'd like to see another Rare-style DK platformer, but I'm not holding my breath.

[E-phonk]

Rumor says we'll soon see: Kirby Wii, Wii Music, Animal Crossing Wii (japan only for '08?), Kid Icarus (probably '09) and Pikmin.

But some of the biggest Nintendo teams are currently working on unknown projects:
EAD Software Group No. 1: just did mario kart Wii, so don't expect anything soon
EAD Software Group No. 2: Animal Crossing
EAD Software Group No. 3 = zelda team. Very big, and currently probably working on Zelda Wii - possibly also on something else
EAD Software Group No. 4: not so big, did Big Brain Academy as last project - could do similar software for '08
EAD Software Group No. 5: Wii Fit team
EAD Software Group Tokyo: Mario Galaxy team, next project might be end '09

Then you have the SmashBros team, 2 teams at IntSys, Brownie Brown (haven't released anything since Mother 3), NST (the cancelled project HAMMER, currently working on something unknown), Retro (metroid 3 was released almost a year ago), SPD1 (often work with intsyst/other internal studios) and SPD4 (they normally do the wii channels), Monolith (disaster, but maybe another project?), Alphadream (haven't released anything since Mario&Luigi:Partners in Time), Ambrella (pokemon sidegame team), Camelot (Golden Sun DS/Wii?), Game freak (They are doing the new pokemon DS game), Genius Sonority (last game was Dragon Quest Swords), HAL (kirby Wii?), Noise (Custome Robo).

Besides these fully/partly owned nintendo studios, there are a lot who work for Nintendo or are being published by Nintendo. Enough projects to release 1/month for the next 2 years. My guess is some of the smaller teams are working on Wiiware titles.

[nixon66]

Actually, I'd like to see another Rare-style DK platformer, but I'm not holding my breath.

I think I just threw up in my mouth. Do you remember DK64? Do you remember how awful it was? Think of the DK rap! Think of the children! Please, no Rare-style platformers!

[RickH]

I think I just threw up in my mouth. Do you remember DK64? Do you remember how awful it was? Think of the DK rap! Think of the children! Please, no Rare-style platformers!

Sorry, man, I loved them all.

Except for that rap part.

[DeathMonkey]

Then you have the SmashBros team

AFAIK, the Smash Bros team is gone. Nintendo hired Sakauri and effectively two development teams to make the game, and now they've all gone their separate ways.

[E-phonk]

AFAIK, the Smash Bros team is gone. Nintendo hired Sakauri and effectively two development teams to make the game, and now they've all gone their separate ways.

I think it were newly hired people together with a senior team from HAL and Monolith. While Sakurai might not be working for nintendo anymore (he's officially "consulting" now), I doubt Nintendo would hire 50-60 people, give them an office, infrastructure, let them handle one of the biggest Nintendo franchises, just to roll up the studio afterwards.

Iwata is very close with Sakurai, and I wouldn't be surprised if Sakurai keeps working with this team if Iwata gives him 100% creative freedom. But even without Sakurai I doubt Nintendo would let this trained developersteam go.

[MyNameIsWill]

The Wii won't outsell the PS2.
The PS3 will ultimately outsell or equal the Xbox 360.
This generation will have no clear winner the way the last had, but Nintendo will make a lot of money.
I don't know about #1 (critics said the Wii was a fad and sales would die by now), but it's possible. I think the PS3 will eventually catch up to the 360 because it will lead in Europe and Japan. If the Wii wasn't dominating Japan now, I wouldn't be surprised for the worldwide sales figures to be closer. FYI here they are so far:

Worldwide User Base

1. Nintendo Wii: 24.5 million
2. Xbox 360: 19 million
3. PlayStation 3: 12.85 million

United States User base (and percentage of total sales)

1. Xbox 360: 10.1 million (53.5%)
2. Nintendo Wii: 9.5 million (38.8%)
3. PlayStation 3: 4.3 million (33.5%)

Interesting to note that the difference between PS3 and 360 worldwide sales is more or less equal to the difference in the US, meaning that the PS3 has almost achieved parity in markets excluding the US, despite launching a year later.

[Kevin Grey]

You're right there. I don't think there's any precedent for Nintendo to release a game for just about every major franchise this early in a console's lifespan. Zelda, Wario Ware, Fire Emblem, Mario Galaxy, Super Paper Mario, Metroid 3, Mario Kart Wii, Super Smash Bros., Mario Party, and even that Mario soccer game. What's left? Animal Crossing? Starfox? Pikmin? F-Zero? Another Luigi game?

Actually, I'd like to see another Rare-style DK platformer, but I'm not holding my breath.

They have to have at least one or two major "surprise" games coming before the end of the year. I can't imagine they would have released three AAA titles in consecutive months (SSMB, Mario Kart, Wii Fit) if they didn't have something in reserve for Christmas. Otherwise at least one of those easily could have been delayed without anyone batting an eye. Heck I'm not sure many really believed that MK would hit it's Spring date when it was first announced.

[SolomonGrundy]

As a Wii owner the last 3 weeks have been gaming Nirvana with MK,Boom Blox and Wii fit.
I hope they have nothing else until Sept. i'm all set for a while.

[mk56]

My Wii purchase story:

The wife and I decided having one would be fun, have friends over to play Wii tennis, and so forth. She calls the local Best Buy on Monday, around 1 in the afternoon, the clerk tells her they have 25 Wiis in stock. So we think cool, we will get one after work.

At about 6 later that day, I go in, ask the entrance clerk, who informs me there is one left, and I had better hurry and claim it. So I walk over to the video game section, I see that there is, in fact, one Wii box there. It has some kind of large security device on it, so I ask the clerk there if I can still buy it. He says yes, but he recommends that I pick up the box right now, that very moment, or someone will grab it. I do, pick up an extra remote, and head to the register. I was actually a bit nervous that someone would see me with the box and get annoyed I had grabbed the last one.

I realize this scenario is nothing new, but the whole thing just kind of struck me.

As for those Wii sales numbers, I'm a PC gamer, and if you had told me a year ago I'd own a console from this gen, and it would be the Wii, I wouldn't have believed it.

[strategy]

As for those Wii sales numbers, I'm a PC gamer, and if you had told me a year ago I'd own a console from this gen, and it would be the Wii, I wouldn't have believed it.

Same for me; as a PC gamer, I had really not seen myself getting a console at all (definitely not in this generation). Two things really convinced me to actually buy one; the opportunity to play game types that the PC simply has no chance of ever seeing (SMG, Wii Fit, etc) and the opportunity to have games that can be enjoyed with the SO, the family and their kids.

Thankfully, Norwegian shops are well stocked with both Wiis and games. We're still waiting for Smash Bros here, though.

I suspect the family friendly/party game aspect of the Wii really helps the Wii sales. I have friends visiting. They (or their kids) have great fun playing around with my Wii on Wii Sports/Fit or similar. Some time later, they buy their own. I rather doubt playing GTAIV/Halo 3 would have evoked the same response.

It will be interesting to see what effect PS3's new cutesy games (LBP) will have.

[Nellie]

Thankfully, Norwegian shops are well stocked with both Wiis and games.
You can get a Wii here (UK) now with no problems, good luck on finding Mario Karts or the Wii Fit though. You can get them from Amazon's price gougers section if you're willing to pay through the nose for them though.. Actually why do Amazon do this? I go to Amazon to buy from Amazon, not be referred to dodgy joe's second hand software emporium.

[metta]

/anecdote

I have a few friends who picked up a Wii because the price isn't much of a gamble on something that sounds neat. But they don't really use the system much.

My wife (who is already a gamer) asked for one for her bifday, and we found a unit easily enough locally. I went out to grab a second set of controllers and tried to find one title I was interested in playing.

I came home with a second set of controllers, and went back to playing CoD IV, which has been in our Xbox almost constantly since Dec 25.

I dunno what the Wii will get used for once the novelty of Wii Sports has worn off.

/end anecdote

One thing I noticed from owning an NDS, is Nintendo aren't shy about pushing crappy shovelware onto their system. Does anyone have any idea how many Wii games people are buying?

[JD]

One thing I noticed from owning an NDS, is Nintendo aren't shy about pushing crappy shovelware onto their system. Does anyone have any idea how many Wii games people are buying?
50 million? (http://kotaku.com/5010214/nintendo-wii-has-highest-software-sales-for-first-18-months)

[metta]

50 million? (http://kotaku.com/5010214/nintendo-wii-has-highest-software-sales-for-first-18-months)

That seems like a lot. I wonder how much of it is 'My Little Pony Vomits Sunshine', or 'Tracheotomy Mama' or crap like that?

[Kareem]

Could you be a bit more original in your Wii put-downs?

[metta]

Could you be a bit more original in your Wii put-downs?

Well, I'm not trying to summon an aura of cool, I'm just talking about the reasons this platform doesn't appeal to me.

I hadn't paid any attention to the Wii threads until this week, when having the system in our house became inevitable, but my Wii complaints (or 'putdowns', if you prefer. God knows we don't to legitimize someone's issues with the system), if these putdowns are common, then maybe there's something to them.

[E-phonk]

That seems like a lot. I wonder how much of it is 'My Little Pony Vomits Sunshine', or 'Tracheotomy Mama' or crap like that?

I think the general criticizing goes that people are buying too much nintendo games, not that they buy too much shovelware.

[RickH]

Well, I'm not trying to summon an aura of cool, I'm just talking about the reasons this platform doesn't appeal to me.

I hadn't paid any attention to the Wii threads until this week, when having the system in our house became inevitable, but my Wii complaints (or 'putdowns', if you prefer. God knows we don't to legitimize someone's issues with the system), if these putdowns are common, then maybe there's something to them.

But you don't seem to be trying to find anything to play on the Wii. Accoridng to your anecdote, you bought it and ignored it in favor of CoD4. Have you even rented any games?

[Nellie]

And there isn't stupendous amounts of shovelware on the PS or PC for that matter?

I'm happy with the Wii, it fulfils exactly the function we bought it for (excluding the still non existent Wii-Fit) which is a casual games machine. I am very surprised that it doesn't appear to be able to do DVD playback though which would result in it being switched on that much more frequently.

I'll admit that there does seem to be a reasonable amount of crappy looking titles out for it, but again so does every other platform, the lauded games that we've bought for it such as PES 2008 show the capability of the Wii off briliantly imo. Even more lighthearted stuff like Raymon's has been entertaining.

[metta]

But you don't seem to be trying to find anything to play on the Wii. Accoridng to your anecdote, you bought it and ignored it in favor of CoD4. Have you even rented any games?

I'm not sure why I need to justify any of this to anyone - my nose doesn't get out of joint if someone says they don't like something that I like - but okay:

The first thing I did was hit Gamespot reviews, to try and get a sense of the library. The only two titles I could find that sparked any interest in me were Baroque and Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn, neither of which could be found in the four stores I visited.

I then took another trip out, to two other stores, to account for stock variance, and I didn't see one title that made me want to rent it, let alone purchase it.

It feels vaguely silly to be working this hard to find something to put into the Wii when I have plenty of titles for the Xbox and PSP that I do want to play.

And why does anyone care? Nintendo is doing fine without my patronage.

[strategy]

According to Wikipedia, the total number of Wii games sold is at 148 million (that includes about 40 million Wii Sports and Wii Play games).

I don't understand the apparent need there seems to be to denigrate the Wii and its games. But then again, I've never understood this "hardcore gamer" stereotyping either, and the denigration of the Wii seems to take its roots in this idea that there is some "special breed" of gamers.

[metta]

I don't understand the apparent need there seems to be to denigrate the Wii and its games. But then again, I've never understood this "hardcore gamer" stereotyping either, and the denigration of the Wii seems to take its roots in this idea that there is some "special breed" of gamers.

Ah, got it. My comments are being viewed through a very particular lens. Well, I'm not denigrating the Wii. I'm explaining why the system doesn't blow my skirt up. Anything further you read into my posts is your own Louis Vuitton.

edit: Let me just add that there were titles for the Wii that I would buy if I didn't already have something similar for another platform. For example: I'm playing MLB '08 on my PSP and see no need to buy a baseball game for the Wii. So, the message for the rigid thinkers is if the Wii were the only platform I owned I'd be able to find something to play on it. Down boy.

[strategy]

If it's explaining you want to do, it would probably have helped if you had done that in the first place. :-D

[Jeremy Johnsen]

While I enjoy my Wii, I can see where Metta is coming from. I don;t treat it at all like my previous consoles. With my Xbox and any previous consoles, I'd sit down all the time and just play, just like my PC. The Wii is something I rarely turn on unless I'm playing with family or friends. My wife is the same way, she never plays until it's with the family (not counting the recent Wii Fit purchase, now she on the Wii once a day). I don't know if it's the Wii, or if I've just changed, but it's really a replacement for the family game night I had as a child, just now we're playing Wii Sports or Mario Galaxy instead of Uno or Risk.

[metta]

So, today I came home with 'Killer 7', 'No More Heroes' and 'Resident Evil 4 the Wii'.

Can't seem to find my Gamerscore >.<

[MyNameIsWill]

Prediction Wii Fit is going to make GTA IV look like The Smurfs II.

[Jeremy Johnsen]

Except Wii Fit sold out at Target and my local Gamestop, GTAIV didn't.