Why God loves the Jews

[Cleve Blakemore]

'Because We Are Jews'
A Rabbi Speaks From The Heart Of The Torah
By Rabbi Mordechi Weberman
6-28-3

There are those who ask us why we march with the Palestinians. Why do we raise the Palestinian flag? Why do we support the Palestinian cause?

"You are Jews!" they tell us. "What are you doing?"

And our response, which I'd like to share with you this afternoon, is very simple.

IT IS PRECISELY BECAUSE WE ARE JEWS THAT WE MARCH WITH THE PALESTINIANS AND RAISE THEIR FLAG!

IT IS PRECISELY BECAUSE WE ARE JEWS THAT WE DEMAND THAT THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLES BE RETURNED TO THEIR HOMES AND PROPERTIES!

Yes, in our Torah we are commanded to be fair. We are called upon to pursue justice. And, what could be more unjust then the century old attempt of the Zionist movement to invade an other people's land, to drive them out and steal their property?

The early Zionists proclaimed that they were a people without a land going to a land without a people.

Innocent sounding words.

But utterly and totally untrue.

Palestine was a land with a people. A people that were developing a national consciousness.

We have no doubt that would Jewish refugees, have come to Palestine not with the intention of dominating, not with the intention of making a Jewish state, not with the intention of dispossessing, not with the intention of depriving the Palestinians of their basic rights, that they would have been welcomed by the Palestinians, with the same hospitality that Islamic peoples have shown Jews throughout history. And we would have lived together as Jews and Muslims lived before in Palestine in peace and harmony.

To our Islamic and Palestinian friends around the world, please hear our message --

There are Jews around the world who support your cause. And when we support your cause we do not mean some partition scheme proposed in 1947 by a UN that had no right to offer it.

When we say support your cause we do not mean the cut off and cut up pieces of the West Bank offered by Barak at Camp David together with justice for less than 10 % of the refugees.

We do not mean anything other than returning the entire land, including to Jerusalem to Palestinian sovereignty!

At that point justice demands that the Palestinian people should decide if and how many Jews should remain in the Land.

This is the only path to true reconciliation.

But we demand yet more. WE demand that in returning the land back to its rightful owners we have not yet done enough. There should be an apology to the Palestinian people which is clear and precise. Zionism did you wrong. Zionism stole your homes. Zionism stole your land.

By so proclaiming we proclaim before the world that we are the people of the Torah, that our faith demands that we be honest and fair and good and kind.

We have attended hundreds of pro Palestinian rallies over the years and everywhere we go the leaders and audience greet us with the warmth of Middle Eastern hospitality. What a lie it is to say that Palestinians in particular or Muslims in general hate Jews. You hate injustice. Not Jews.

Fear not my friends. Evil cannot long triumph. The Zionist nightmare is at its end. It is exhausted. Its latest brutalities are the death rattle of the terminally ill.

We will yet both live to see the day when Jew and Palestinian will embrace in peace under the Palestinian flag in Jerusalem.

And ultimately when mankind's Redeemer will come the sufferings of the present will long be forgotten in the blessings of the future.

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[Bailey]

Calling someone a "jewbiter" is funny.

[m0nty]

Don't worry if Zion is destroyed... the Architect will build it again.

[bmulligan]

A lesson in self-hatred, mirroring the philosophy of liberal whites in the US.

[Cleve Blakemore]

Don't worry if Zion is destroyed... the Architect will build it again.

Exactly. But a lot of the Chosenites stopped believing that a long time ago and got traded to the other team during the training season. G-d has never, never broken his covenants with anyone. Never. Others have certainly broken with him, however.

I forsee a Palestine where there is peaceful cohabitation as it was before 1945 and the establishment of the secular humanist empire called Israel. Jews have lived there for a thousand years without anything remotely like a pogrom or a problem before that Nazi state was formed. You go looking for trouble, you get trouble. Funny how with all those "brains," a lot of Chosenites can't figure out this part.

[Tom Chick]

Exactly.

Someone hasn't seen The Matrix Reloaded. Would that I could be so lucky.

-Tom

[bmulligan]

Exactly.

Someone hasn't seen The Matrix Reloaded. Would that I could be so lucky.

-Tom

Someone hasn't noticed the parallels between the matrix paradigm and the bible

[Tom Chick]

Someone hasn't noticed the parallels between the matrix paradigm and the bible.

You're right, someone hasn't. Perhaps you would care to enlighten someone?

-Someone who doesn't recall whether Carrie Anne Moss encased in leather and leaping from a skyscraper was in I Kings or II Kings

[bmulligan]

the architect explaining to Neo the process of rebuilding Zion with his choice of 16 females and 7 males is analogous to the covenant between God and Noah. Another parallel is the sacrifice of Issac by Abraham. Neo is asked to choose between saiving his love (Moss in her fine leather clad ass) or the human race. Abraham carried out god's order to prove his faith, but god didn't allow Issac to die. Neo however, chose self over sacrifice.

Jeeesh, don't make me think so much about that stupid movie anymore!

[Tom Chick]

Hmm. Yeah, well, that's a nice try, Mr. Bmulligan, but you're going to have to flesh that one out a bit. Confucius say, "Vague strained similarities to Noah and Abraham do not a parallel make". :)

-Tom

[bmulligan]

Ok, but you're really ruining the fun in fantasy when you overanalyze these things.

God has this master plan, see. Like the architect (plans, get it?) God created the world (architect, matrix) and every once in a while when things get out of hand, God needs to clean house. Just like the ice ages, only a small portion of the population is allowed to survive and rebuild the world again from a pure, pool of genes, not those ones tainted with sin. God, lets 'the one' take samples to repopulate the new world(Zion).

It's easier for God to keep a good sample to rebuild instead of start from scratch, so he can guilt Noah (the one) into doing the job with all that I love you covenant shit. Kind of like the Architect saying you know Trinity(fine ass) will die so the only logical choice is the right door becuase you are part of this grand process.

I don't think I like that Confucius guy or his stupid fortunes I get after my Szechuan beef. I'll bet he never even saw the first movie.

[Cleve Blakemore]

It's easier for God to keep a good sample to rebuild instead of start from scratch, so he can guilt Noah (the one) into doing the job with all that I love you covenant shit.

Speaking as a lapsed atheist, it is my duty to inform you that this kind of trendy fashionable blasphemy sounds a lot different before the Judgement seat of God. It's cool, it's dark, it's quiet and the chamber is infinite in all directions. You'll be hurriedly thinking to yourself, hey wait a second, the other hairless primates and I discussed it over cappuccino and we all agreed this place doesn't exist. Then, all of a sudden, you'll start to feel a terror greater than anything you've ever known in your life and you'll be blabbering out a desperate, wanton confession and a heartfelt apology for all your mindless, irreverent contemptuous curses against God during your life. You'll realize you're actually a pathetic small pink monkey who cannot look to any social support network at this moment for reassurance.

God won't need to say anything to you. You'll convict yourself, too late, too insincerely, when it no longer counts. The best kept secret about the trapdoor to hell is that God doesn't touch the hand lever - you'll pull it yourself when the time comes. Betcha didn't talk about that in Religious Studies 101, eh? You'll get a lot of time to talk it over with your marxist teacher in the eternal outer darkness where there is wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Don't curse God or ridicule his promises, try to keep his commandments. Cursing God doesn't hurt him in the least, any more than a bacterium squirting mucus on the surface of your keyboard damages you. The only person hurt by that kind of blasphemous sassback is you.

[bmulligan]

it is my duty to inform you that this kind of trendy fashionable blasphemy sounds a lot different before the Judgement seat of God. It's cool, it's dark, it's quiet and the chamber is infinite in all directions.

cool, its just like the architects chamber in the 'source' - another parallel.

Honestly Cleve, I never imagined you as a bible thumper. You are ruining my whole picture of you. It's baffling to me that a mind such as yours that basks in the light of self reverence could fathom submittance to a higher power.

Were there to be a god, I wouldn't attempt nor desire to apoligize for my own mind or existence. I am an instance of the creator himself, in all his glory and foibles, accepting me as a unique entity and image of divinity, the spawn of his own seed. Shunning me would result in the destruction of his own being. (isn't that what you call unconditional love?)

The bible's god is a being who creates entities for the purpose of their own self-immolation. This is the personal god, the caring and loving yet vengeful god who punnishes those who would not believe in him. A god who creates beings to live with guilt, and plead for his mercy. Where mercy is unearned forgiveness.

Guilt for ones own existence, the supreme law of those who would control others. Born from sin of the knowledge of good and evil. Such sins are what makes us seperate from the animals from which we came. My god does not punish for such knowledge, but rewards us with civility. I do not place faith in such idols as the gods of Moses, Abraham, Jesus, Mohammad, or the common good.


Don't curse God or ridicule his promises, try to keep his commandments. Cursing God doesn't hurt him in the least, any more than a bacterium squirting mucus on the surface of your keyboard damages you. The only person hurt by that kind of blasphemous sassback is you.

I do not curse god, I curse the image of him tainted by words. Words written by men, in a book worshipped by men. I curse the men who would tell me my life is wrong and evil and can only be absolved only by admitting such. I live by the commandments that say my life has value, and all other things in this world are measured by that value. My fist covenant is to my self, first and foremost. Were I to be the prime mover, creator, or architect of the universe, I would hold this to be the first law of order: "this above all, to thine own self be true"

When my judgement day comes, I will bask in the light of truth, for truth is the fruit of judgement.

[Cleve Blakemore]

My fist covenant is to my self, first and foremost. Were I to be the prime mover, creator, or architect of the universe, I would hold this to be the first law of order: "this above all, to thine own self be true"

When my judgement day comes, I will bask in the light of truth, for truth is the fruit of judgement.

It's your "fist" covenant, alright. Do you know the wanker who was the original author of these ideas? Lucifer, the morning star, brightest of all the angels. So persuasive that more than a third of the angels joined him.

When your judgement day comes, all these platitudes and sentiments that made so much idle sense when you were alive will be stripped away to reveal your spiritual nakedness before God.

The reason that I fear God is that I'm a real, authentic genius ... not a specialist or an academic babbler.

You should have yourself a long hard think about the average mean temperature of the universe, the abundance of carbon and hydrogen, the placement of Jupiter as a shield to absorb incoming space debris from striking the Earth, the fortunate coincidence of having a moon at just the right orbit and size ripped out of the pacific to keep the weather here temperate.

Like a tiny paramecium dangling over a fire, your existence is only at the grace of God and his mercy. If God is just, he would destroy you now. Incredibly, he is both just and merciful, which is the reason your planet has not been creamed into something resembling congealed oatmeal by a passing comet.

Although you are not bright enough to understand the how and why, you essentially live in a large custom designed terrarium that has been specially tailored to keep your species alive in an otherwise hostile and impersonal universe. Ask yourself why that is, why you even exist. Random molecular sharing in the ancient oceans? I think not.

[hermyhermit]

Although you are not bright enough to understand the how and why, you essentially live in a large custom designed terrarium that has been specially tailored to keep your species alive in an otherwise hostile and impersonal universe. Ask yourself why that is, why you even exist. Random molecular sharing in the ancient oceans? I think not.


Not to sound like one of these New Age wackos, but perhaps it wasn't God that brought about these things?

I'm with you on the "helping hand" theory, it is almost an outright case of denial to not see the amount of coincidences that you mentioned above. The complexity of the human body itself if you really understand it on a molecular level is another thing that even after billions of years would probably not have arisen out of any spontaneous mix of anything. The mechanisms are just too complex. The universe has a tendency toward entropy and the amount of order and interdependence in the body simply cannot be a random chance thing.

That being said though... would it be so hard to beleive that some race far far superior to ours would have made "the terrarium" for their enjoyment? Or whatever their reason may have been it wouldn't be beyond a very high science to engineer this place and pull a few rocks into the orbit of a fairly small sun.

What makes you so sure God is involved? And considering the sheer amount of death, suffering, and destruction that takes place here, it obviously isn't the God of Christianity. Maybe the Old Testament version, if anything, but even that is a stretch.

Why not a super advanced race of aliens, that may or may not still be around and may or may not be watching and may or may not give a flying fuck about the whole ant farm anymore?

There is an equal amount of proof for your God as there is for my super aliens.

[Cleve Blakemore]

When I was growing up in Lincoln, Nebraska, there was this tough kid down the street named Tom Manke, the resident fonz. In his later years he faded away to become a non-entity, but during his sixth grade years he was the neighborhood "cool" phenomenon. Always laid back and ultra laisse faire. Had a self-promoting comeback for everything. A bully who always made you feel lacking in some way and spent a lot of effort doing it.

One afternoon he saw my younger brother and I replacing the tornado doors near the basement and came over to hang around and say cool things. He asked us why we bothered. We told him because if a tornado came, we wanted a safe place to take refuge. His reply was the sort of thing all "cool" people say in our society nowadays, kind of ubiquitous.

"Hey, man, if you gotta go, you gotta go. When I go I won't even notice cuz I'll be too busy lookin' good. Have a nice day, suckers."

Well, one day the tornado came, as they do in Nebraska. The appearance of the twister on the horizon to this day fills me with fear just in remembering it. It was so colossal, so close and so awe inspiring it dwarfed us kids like the insects we were crawling around on the surface of the Earth. Our parents were at work, we were at home alone. We ran outside and down into the fallout/storm shelter and locked the doors behind us. It was warm, secure and safe down there with food and water, blankets and flashlights. My brothers and I laid down on the bunks and read comic books.

Tom Manke lived in a condo about two blocks away, with no cellar to speak of. He actually came running over to our shelter and began banging on the outside to let us in, accompanied by two other local druggies/vandals he called friends. All of them were scared out of their mind, Manke had tears welling up in his eyes and looked about 8 months old. He was threatening us inside and telling us he would kick our asses if we didn't open up.

I had two young brothers inside and Tom Manke had beaten us up or picked on me at least a dozen times during the previous year. He went out of his way to be a frightening kid who would make your life hell. I told him there was no way I would let him down in the cellar with us during the storm and advised him he'd better find someplace else. He changed gears and started begging and openly crying I was going to be in big big trouble if I didn't open up. I ignored him and kept the doors locked. His druggie dopesmoking friends started screaming when the tornado grew louder and they all ran away.

The tornado passed by enormously close to my neighborhood making a sound like a cosmic banshee like two thousand locomotives going by overhead. Nobody was killed and it never touched down anywhere in my region. Some shingles were lost and a few shed doors took flight, that was about it.

When Tom's parents came home, they found him in the garage with his two friends wrapped around a water pipe in fetal positions crying like little girls, bawling their eyes out. Later I heard from Tom's sister that he had completely voided his bowels into his pants, about thirty pounds of steaming fecal matter and the pants had tobe thrown away.

Tom was a broken boy after that. He never did recover his Fonz-like demeanour and always seemed to be a bit dazed. For a while I got the distinct impression he had developed a few gray hairs. The last time I saw Tom was when I was 14 and moving away, Tom was asleep in an alley beside the condo after drinking himself numb.

Most of the human race is too dumb to be afraid until it is too late to benefit from fear.

[Cleve Blakemore]

[quote=Cleve Blakemore]
There is an equal amount of proof for your God as there is for my super aliens.

Your "Star Trek" super-aliens! :roll:

Right. These aliens existed before the laws of physics solidified in the prematter universe following the big bang and they designed the universe to unfold like a ZIP file with all the planets in the right orbits, Jupiter to take up her position, the moon to be torn from the Pacific when the time was ripe.

Yes, your "super-aliens" are just as likely as a kind and benevolent all powerful being. Doesn't this indicate you probably have watched a lot of "Star Trek" and are stuck on this paradigm of grown men in colored pajamas?

Why do you posit "super aliens" with Ockham's Razor at your disposal? Oh, then you'd have to curtail your autoerotic activities, grow up, build a family and leave your thumb sucking Oprah's Big Adventure Reality Simulation.

Yes, it's the "super aliens." Yes. I can see them now with their saucers zipping around, those oversized heads bulging with veins, little silver suits on ... yeah, that's likely.

If you'll look harder, much harder, right into the heart of consciousness itself, you'll see more incredible coincidences than merely compelling physical evidence for a prime creator. It's been said that intellectuals are people who like to think about the thoughts of others, but geniuses are people who can watch the workings of their own mind in action. If you look into your own mind, you will see marvelous things there that shouldn't be present despite any speciation requirements of cold weather survival in the Ice Age.

Close your eyes and rub them. You'll see Mandelbrots. The structure of your consciousness extends deep in the heart of reality itself. In a way far more profound than the priests and hucksters could ever imagine, the bible is the inspired word of God. It's not amended or invalid. It's the truth. Let God be true and every man a liar.

I'm 40 years old and I can fathom more profound understanding in the most obscure paragraphs of the Bible than the feeble trash authored by the greatest thinkers in the history of mankind, including Nietszche and Schopenhauer.

Close the bible and rub it - you'll see the Mandelbrots, my boy. There's something there that exceeds the ink and parchment it is written on. Something there curves down into the gravity well of black holes, it's deeper than anything any hairless monkey ever wrote.

You have to look past the personality of the particular man that God was writing through and trim the static to hear the bandwidth, which is very broad indeed. There are Mandebrots there.

[wumpus]

I'm glad Cleve has toned the overt racism down in response to my complaints. This is progress. Maybe one day he'll be gutsy enough to type 'ass' or 'bullshit' without asterisks. Soldier on, brave hero!

[bmulligan]

It's your "fist" covenant, alright. Do you know the wanker who was the original author of these ideas? Lucifer, the morning star, brightest of all the angels. So persuasive that more than a third of the angels joined him.


Lucifer, the bearer of light. The messenger which procedes the sun that gives light to the world. The light is truth. The universe is a very large place, perhaps too large even for a genius to conceive.

But through the bitter expanse of the cold darkness, I am Lucifer, the harbinger of the soul and all that created you. Fear not, for I am here to show you purpose, not of obediance to idolotry, but an understanding of your own existence. I am here to break the bindings other men have put upon you. It will be revealed that your life is your own and should not be sacrificed for the sake of others'. The divine light shines from within, for luminous beings are we. Embrace the warmth of your own glory!

[Cleve Blakemore]

It's your "fist" covenant, alright. Do you know the wanker who was the original author of these ideas? Lucifer, the morning star, brightest of all the angels. So persuasive that more than a third of the angels joined him.


Lucifer, the bearer of light. The messenger which procedes the sun that gives light to the world. The light is truth. The universe is a very large place, perhaps too large even for a genius to conceive.

But through the bitter expanse of the cold darkness, I am Lucifer, the harbinger of the soul and all that created you. Fear not, for I am here to show you purpose, not of obediance to idolotry, but an understanding of your own existence. I am here to break the bindings other men have put upon you. It will be revealed that your life is your own and should not be sacrificed for the sake of others'. The divine light shines from within, for luminous beings are we. Embrace the warmth of your own glory!

Uh-yeah. "I'm" the whacko.

[Mark Asher]

We may just be the lottery winners. How many trillions of stars are there? Out of that many, there are bound to be some capable of supporting life. We may just be lucky.

[Cleve Blakemore]

We may just be the lottery winners. How many trillions of stars are there? Out of that many, there are bound to be some capable of supporting life. We may just be lucky.

Nice try with the old anthromorphic argument.

Mark, do you think we won the lotto every day for the past four billion years? What are the odds on that?

As for the old busted Sagan monkey-grinding organ of "billions and billions of stars," it is unlikely there are enough stars in the universe to produce the random opportunity for life to evolve and if it evolved to achieve our level of advancement.

Let's look at it from your secular viewpoint. I can probably argue your position better than you can anyway. If our planet falls to the multicult and slips back into a new Stone Age, who is to say this ball of mud will not orbit into the darkness for a million years with no creatures to ever marvel at the stars or aspire to reach them outside of whacky-weed fueled hallucinations? Wouldn't that be a critical sin to exceed all others? Given this enormous responsibility, that we may be the only life in the universe and evolved by chance as you want so emphatically to believe, do you really think a marxist spiral into a plate-lipped mud hut paradise is an acceptable surrender of our great fortune? Wouldn't we be convicted of the worse sin humanly imaginable to give up our speciation and dissolve into a sea of tanman mediocrity, butt plugs and prehistoric oblivion? Whence the sharp acute self-perception that distinguishes us from the lower animals? I daresay your guilt would be a million times that of Cain to have betrayed the cosmos in such a fashion.

[m0nty]

OK, so the Merovingian is Lucifer? The Oracle is John the Baptist, or maybe Ezekiel? I don't know who the Keymaker would be.

[hermyhermit]

Why do you posit "super aliens" with Ockham's Razor at your disposal?

I posit Super Aliens precisely *because* I have Ockham's Razor at my disposal.

There is equal and compelling evidence for a race of super beings pulling very large planetoids into the proper orbit using their advanced technologies and creating a carbon based lifeform from genetic soup as there is for an invisible being that no one has ever seen who benevolently decided to create you, and all the other carbon units here to muck around in it doing what we please.

I'm playing the devil's advocate here because I'm not convinced of either but they certainly hold the same probability of being true.

[mtkafka]

OK, so the Merovingian is Lucifer? The Oracle is John the Baptist, or maybe Ezekiel? I don't know who the Keymaker would be.

No The Architect is Lucifer pretending to give the fruit of knowledge to mankind in the guise of the Matrix. The oracle is NOT good, and just another demon to trick humanity into not believing in God but in ourselves. If anything Neo is not the Messiah just another human that Lucifer wants to have him thnk he is. This is so we dont see the true messiah when he does come. this is not a movie. Why should we believe in ourselves when a nation like Germany (one of the most advanced in the middle twentieth century) with Hitler and his fascist twisted Satanic Ubermensch Nietzhean dreams of ultimate race easily tricked people like us (VERY EASILY IT ALMOST BORDERS INCOMPREHENSION) into killing 6 million jews and leftovers (same with Stalin, Pol Pot, Ho Chi Minh and maybe even Democracry with its true aim of false equality). The incomprehensibiliy of it all. We're not worshipping God but concepts with no meaning, flags that are just shadows, Satan. And Tolkiien saw this not just in Hitler, but in our society not honouring God anymore. But deep down its not God we have to blame but The Architect (ourselves, as we made The Architect). The man and woman who are convinced by Satan to believe in ourselves. Ourselves we should blame. Mankind is fallen but ultimately forgiven thru Christ, each and every one of us. Don't you read the bible? Repent and ask forgiveness unto our lord Jesus Christ. All our life on this earth is but an instant to God. who are we to judge God? Satan would have you believe we can do it, that there was no messiah, that Jesus was nothing. All the while Jesus wept at what we have become.

There you go!

etc

[mtkafka]

Also, God DOES love the Jews. They are his chosen people. To think that God doesn't love the Jews (and mankind) is Satan at work.

etc

[bmulligan]

- "I see mandelbrots"

- "Where?"

- "Everywhere!"

- "Are you sure you just haven't read too much acid while reading Robert Anton Wilson and waiting countless hours for your IBM PC XT to calculate another iteration of the mandelbrot set?"

- "No, but I won the lotto 4 billion years ago"[/i]

[Jason Lutes]

Hey Cleve,

Help me out here. Okay, you believe in God, but I'm not clear on exactly which God that is. Is He your own individualized (and no doubt correct) take on the puzzle of our existence, or is He related in some way to the Judeo-Christian deity?

When it's all over and all of us paramecia are taking the perp walk past the Judgement Throne, what are His standards for pulling the lever that opens the trapdoor? Does every woman and uneducated or non-white soul get the Short Ride to the Long Barbecue, or are there exceptions? Who wins and who loses and what is your God's criteria for deciding? I'm curious about how your life's philosophy plays out in the afterlife.

Also, if Final Judgement is fast approaching, I don't understand why you have retreated to Australia for the reasons you state. If you truly believe in your God and Eternal Salvation, what's the point in living out your last days on a poisoned planet? Wouldn't it be nicer and more gratifying to meet your Creator as soon as the contrails start to crisscross the sky?

I would really like to know.

[Cleve Blakemore]

Hey Cleve,

Help me out here. Okay, you believe in God, but I'm not clear on exactly which God that is. Is He your own individualized (and no doubt correct) take on the puzzle of our existence, or is He related in some way to the Judeo-Christian deity?

When it's all over and all of us paramecia are taking the perp walk past the Judgement Throne, what are His standards for pulling the lever that opens the trapdoor? Does every woman and uneducated or non-white soul get the Short Ride to the Long Barbecue, or are there exceptions? Who wins and who loses and what is your God's criteria for deciding? I'm curious about how your life's philosophy plays out in the afterlife.

Also, if Final Judgement is fast approaching, I don't understand why you have retreated to Australia for the reasons you state. If you truly believe in your God and Eternal Salvation, what's the point in living out your last days on a poisoned planet? Wouldn't it be nicer and more gratifying to meet your Creator as soon as the contrails start to crisscross the sky?

I would really like to know.

What does the Bible say? Do you know? Please stop using your trained trigger phrase "Judeo-Christian." There's no need. Does the Bible say we are saved by works or grace?

Who said anything about a final judgement? No man knows the hour, but the Son of Man. This sort of neglecting to pack because you believe the U.S.S. Rapture is going to pick you up pre-trib with a complementary basket of fruit and various personal hygiene products is way, way nutty. In terms of theology, it's the first time anybody in the past 2000 years has ever suggested that the Rapture precedes tribulations. It's become quite popular in the past ten years amongst the puffy Oprah fans, however, as another consumer convenience.

The final judgement may come tomorrow or ten thousand thousand years from now. Who is to say a little old cyclic event like a new Ice Age or global thermonuclear war will prompt God's hand in any way or force him to revise his timeline? Your duty as a Christian is to value your life and the lives of those you love as the temple of God. You don't put a sign CLOSING FOR GOOD in front of the temple and hang around out front in your beach pants and sun hat waiting for the Jesus Rapture Bus to stop and pick you up.

The other Christian practice today is bump me in the hiney and use me as a doormat because I'm white, I worship humiliation and guilt for imaginary sins which don't actually show up in the Bible as violations of the Commandments but seem to constitute a new Luciferian code of morality overlaid on Christianity like a carpet of dung over a field of flowers. No race is required to genocide themselves and anybody who says they are is the servant of the devil.

God has already passed judgement on multiculturalism at the Tower of Babel, but modern "Christians" would rather let God be a liar and man be true. Do you honestly think God would want any race of men to deliberately disenfranchise themselves off their own territory in a masochistic streak of self-loathing? Of course not, he separated them for a reason and it was man, not God, that has sought a new messianic era by breeding an uber-race of tanman plate-lipped bonobos.

Can enrichers achieve salvation? They most certainly could if they have a conscience and repent of their sins. After 40 years, I have yet to see such a sincere conversion in an enricher, ever ... rare enough in a European, nonexistent for featherless bipeds.

Like everything else nowadays, so-called "Christians" are just one more manifestation of the overall fusion grade idiocy that infects every aspect of Western life. They believe God is a good fortune slot machine, you pull the lever and hope for lemons to line up in the window so you can hit the Jesus jackpot. If you wanted to understand my kind of faith, you'd go back to the pre-catholic era in Europe. Let God be true and every man a liar.

[Jason Lutes]

Okay, I get what you're saying about final judgement and I see how my thinking about a "retreat to Australia" was erroneous.



Do you honestly think God would want any race of men to deliberately disenfranchise themselves off their own territory in a masochistic streak of self-loathing? Of course not, he separated them for a reason and it was man, not God, that has sought a new messianic era by breeding an uber-race of tanman plate-lipped bonobos.

Could you elaborate on this part a bit? I'm probably being dense, but I don't grasp exactly what you're saying here. Who was disenfranchised, and who seeks the new messianic era? Maybe something described in less general terms would help me.

Also, since you look to the Bible, I'm curious about whether God has a particular appearance. I understand that He must be all-knowing and all-powerful, and probabaly able to assume any form He wishes, but does He have some sort of basic form, and are we "created in his image?"

I know you won't forgive my ignorance on the subject, but I never went to church as a kid and have only read portions of the Bible.

Thanks for the informative response.

[Jason McMaster]

-Someone who doesn't recall whether Carrie Anne Moss encased in leather and leaping from a skyscraper was in I Kings or II Kings

Best. Quote. Ever.

[Robert Sharp]

-Someone who doesn't recall whether Carrie Anne Moss encased in leather and leaping from a skyscraper was in I Kings or II Kings

Best. Quote. Ever.

Which is the one where God is basically just describing a dream I had?