Hypothetical! From Colombia to this thread.

[Tankero]

Recently, the Colombian government has painted itself in a corner. I'll pose to all of you the same question they're having to deal with now.

Let's say there's a group of rebels generally being a goddamn (fucking) nuisance. They shoot up the place, they randomly bomb villages and social clubs; you know "Revolucion!" and such. Having figured out who the leaders are, you offer a reward to "anyone who can provide information, leading to their capture, dead or alive."


Now then, time goes by and the reward goes unclaimed, growing exponentially year by year. Then, a few rugged men in fatigues march into one of your army bases, with a passport, an ID card, and a hand in a box. They say, "this is the hand of XX leader of the revolutionary army. We were his security detail, and we killed him. We've come to claim the reward".

What would you do, as a government of law?

Currently, the Colombian government hasn't reached a decision, but they're making overtures towards trying to justify the death of the guerrilla leader as "self-defense". It's causing a bit of debate.

[Lizard_King]

So it's a certainty that it's the leader's hand, and that he's dead, right? Because I'd hate to envision a bunch of Colombian nihilists trying to scam the government.

Do you have any news articles you think cover this well?

[Dave Markell]

I'd pay them if you can prove the hand is really from the leader, and that he's dead. The government said "anyone" and "dead or alive". A traitorous security detail certainly counts as anyone. In fact, one of the chief reasons you offer those kinds of rewards is to encourage turncoat activity in the opposition. Our huge bounty on Bin Laden certainly has this in mind.

[CSL]

I don't think it really matters - the men who brought the hand in are probably dead men walking by now.

[Incendiary Lemon]

Yeah, It'll be hard to move back into the neighborhood after cashing the reward.

[Dave Markell]

With a big enough reward, you move to another country, change your name, and hide for the rest of your life.

[Funkula]

If you can ID the guy positively, then yeah. Pay them the money and send them on their way. But yeah, like LK, I'm getting flashes of, "You want a hand? Dude, I can get you a hand. I can get you a hand by 3 o'clock this afternoon."

[Anti-Bunny]

You can survive without a hand. I'd want his head and refuse to pay up without it.

[Tankero]

Not quite the BBC, but... (http://www.canada.com/windsorstar/news/story.html?id=44d5e5a1-6ae4-44d3-a782-f010f0f1a6f7)

[Lum]

How do you think the CIA would react were an Afghan warrior band to stroll up to an Army base with Osama Bin Laden's hand?

You can survive without a hand. I'd want his head and refuse to pay up without it.

They'd react like that.

[Tankero]

Alright, to eliminate a few tangents: the hand came along with the location of the rest of the corpse, which was positively identified as the rebel leader.

[Equis]

Pay the reward, then arrest the security detail on charges of conspiracy to incite rebellion. (Or something, I'm sure they can find something. They were his security detail after all)

Didn't the government already consider all the legal entanglings of the situation when they first offered the reward?

[Lizard_King]

I'm pretty sure the big part of the reward is the five million offered by the US stated department. And I'm positive neither they or they Colombian government give a rat's ass about the "legal entanglings" when it comes to a FARC top guy handed over on a platter. As soon as it's clear it's him on the platter, that is.

[Sarkus]

Given the terms of the offer, I'm not sure what they can do but pay. If you offer rewards saying "dead or alive" then you are ruining any future use of the reward option if you then go after the guys who accepted the offer.

It'd be one thing if the killers were bigwigs in FARC, but otherwise I don't see the problem here.

[Equis]

And I'm positive neither they or they Colombian government give a rat's ass about the "legal entanglings" when it comes to a FARC top guy handed over on a platter. As soon as it's clear it's him on the platter, that is.

Forward planning is why I trust those guys to clear up international messes. They just seem so good at it.

[Lizard_King]

Forward planning is why I trust those guys to clear up international messes. They just seem so good at it.

I'm not endorsing the strategy, but tactically it seems like a no brainer once you're stuck with the existing approach. Then again, my strategy begins with "legalize drugs", so what do I know.

[deccan]

Hmm, I thought I'd read something about this on the Straight Dope, but it was about informers collecting reward money.

http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mrewards.htm

[MikeSofaer]

The article linked seemed to indicate that they were about to catch him anyway.

[Tankero]

He and his security team had been isolated in the mountains for several days without food. They were near the Ecuadorian border, where another FARC leader had been killed when his camp was bombed by Colombian fighters.

[Machfive]

I'm not endorsing the strategy, but tactically it seems like a no brainer once you're stuck with the existing approach. Then again, my strategy begins with "legalize drugs", so what do I know.

Everything.

[Funkula]

Alright, to eliminate a few tangents: the hand came along with the location of the rest of the corpse, which was positively identified as the rebel leader.

Then yes, pay the fucking reward. If you offer a reward for bringing someone in with the stipulation "dead or alive" you are explicitly endorsing killing the person. What reason would they have for not paying it?

[Tankero]

Notice the stipulation for information leading to the capture, not the capture per se.

[Dirt]

Pay the people and choose the new Dalai Lama.

[Lizard_King]

Notice the stipulation for information leading to the capture, not the capture per se.
I can't imagine the State department was expecting the Lone Word Parser and his sidekick Sees No Forest For Trees to take them up on the reward, but nice try. The only hurdle is finding a nice way to doll up giving ruthless men who may still be on the other team a big sack of cash for killing and dismembering someone, and that is purely a public relations issue, not a "will we pay" matter. That is purely contingent on confirming the kill, which they appear to have done to their satisfaction.

[Funkula]

Also, they provided the location of the corpse, which counts as "information leading to his capture, dead."

[Tankero]

But your arguments basically say that the rebel leader himself isn't protected by the laws the other citizens are.

Mind you, I'm parsing the debate as it's occurring within the judicial branch of the Colombian government.

[Lizard_King]

Uh, ok. I can't believe you live in Colombia and still believe the government (and certainly not a representative of this US administration) would feel constitutionally bound to protect the rights of FARC leaders. Dead or alive means dead or alive, and while they are sure to waffle around the issues you bring up if pressed, I really can't imagine anyone who wants to stay in charge of anything in Colombia would be foolish enough to make a stand on it. That's just me, maybe I'm attributing too much consistency to the course they've already been set on long before of which this sort of thing is just a symptom.

[Tankero]

There's a very clear split between the constitutional court and the executive branch. The judicial branch as a whole is divided because, even if they are criminals, the FARC do indeed enjoy the protection of the law. Captured guerrillas are still charged, brought to trial, and sometimes even released on procedural grounds. Others still are extradited to the U.S. for charges under drug trafficking laws.

Also, given the fact that this fellow is a guerrilla himself (and a prominent, high-ranking one at that) what should they do? Absolve him and give him his money?

[Lizard_King]

There's a very clear split between the constitutional court and the executive branch. The judicial branch as a whole is divided because, even if they are criminals, the FARC do indeed enjoy the protection of the law. Captured guerrillas are still charged, brought to trial, and sometimes even released on procedural grounds. Others still are extradited to the U.S. for charges under drug trafficking laws.
Fair enough. If they had a constitutional objection, they should have made it when the dead or alive was issued. Like I said, I'm not a fan of this course of action, but I also can't see how the Colombian govt's courts could renege on the offer retroactively.

Also, given the fact that this fellow is a guerrilla himself (and a prominent, high-ranking one at that) what should they do? Absolve him and give him his money?
I don't know about absolve him, but let him go and give him his money, yeah. They'd be fools within their established goals to burn him. Maybe word the next reward more specifically if they are that upset about it.

[Equis]

Absolve him and give him his money?

Why can't they give him the money and arrest him anyway?

[Lizard_King]

A lesser criminal getting immunity for turning on his boss is a time honored principle, this is just the Tarantino version of that (in the express lane). Whatever else may come of this, the last thing you want is to have the story disincentive other criminals from turning for money.