Marketing vs. Reality - a coat hanger as good as monster cables?

[jpinard]

It's a tie!

Here's the setup. Guy sets up sound quality test with your standard super expensive monster cables, and the competitor? Coat hangers. The kicker is the test subjects had no idea "the competition" was going to be something not even made for speaker runs.
(short runs only of course)

http://consumerist.com/assets/resources/2008/03/monstervscoathanger.jpg

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15412#post15412

http://consumerist.com/362926/do-coat-hangers-sound-as-good-monster-cables

This makes me think about Bose. "Better Sound Through (Research) Marketing". I'd love to see this test expanded to have better documentation, instead of it being pseudo here-say.

[Houngan]

It's a tie!

Here's the setup. Guy sets up sound quality test with your standard super expensive monster cables, and the competitor? Coat hangers. The kicker is the test subjects had no idea "the competition" was going to be something not even made for speaker runs.
(short runs only of course)

http://consumerist.com/assets/resources/2008/03/monstervscoathanger.jpg

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15412#post15412

http://consumerist.com/362926/do-coat-hangers-sound-as-good-monster-cables

This makes me think about Bose. "Better Sound Through (Research) Marketing". I'd love to see this test expanded to have better documentation, instead of it being pseudo here-say.

Oh, triple-snap! How many coat hangers can I buy for a pair of Pears?

H.

[Podunk]

That's awesome.

[XPav]

To be fair, 2 feet is a really short run.

[Skipper]

To be fair, 2 feet is a really short run.

Apparently it was 2 meters though. A very typical cable distance. Pretty cool results too.

[Machfive]

This doesn't surprise anyone who understands that copper cable is copper fucking cable.

Given the same gauge and a decent connection on both ends, you're gonna get the same performance.

[jfletch]

This test is invalid unless there was a wooden volume knob on the receiver.

[Houngan]

This test is invalid unless there was a wooden volume knob on the receiver.


Be specific. A $485 wooden knob.

http://www.boingboing.net/2005/11/07/astronomically-overp.html

H.

[VictoriaWong]

Purity of the metal and alloy composition makes a difference.

[Machfive]

Oh, they'll try and make you believe that alright, but it's a bunch of crap. The difference in electrical conductivity between run-of-the-mill lamp cord and high-end cables is fractions of a percent, and the only thing that miniscule decrease in conductivity really results in is greater resistance.

Greater resistance means that the amp has to work about .01% harder using lamp cord than it does with high end cable. That's about it. It's within tolerances, and no one can pass a true ABX test to prove otherwise.

Perhaps over time, the high end cables might age a bit more gracefully. They might be a bit less prone to kinks, or snags, or curling.

But they don't sound any better, and anyone who tells you otherwise is selling you snake oil.

Everything you (didn't) care to know about speaker wire (http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm)

[quatoria]

Those forum posts are from 2004. I wonder why they just now got noticed.

[VictoriaWong]

I was thinking more in terms of the really cheap coat hangers, but I guess I should read the article more carefully first.

[rjcc]

every time someone says they purchased monster cables I just laugh.

[hong]

Purity of the metal and alloy composition makes a difference.
Even more so in wooden knobs.

[Midnight Son]

Monster Cables are a ripoff. They're bought by the same people who "need" a Hummer to go to Walmart.

[MonkeyPunky]

Don't forget about the monster cable optical cables! A sales guy tried to tell me they'll sound better and are made of higher quality fiber glass so they would be less likely to shatter than the generic brand optical cables. My head almost exploded.

[Machfive]

Actually, there's some half-truths to that. Cheap optical cables have almost nothing in the way of cushioning, so they're very easy to bend and break accidentally. The monster cables have such a thick padded jacket and don't kink as easily, so it's a bit harder to destroy them.

I was thinking more in terms of the really cheap coat hangers, but I guess I should read the article more carefully first.

heh, happens to the best of us. I thought you were responding to my post about copper cable, not to the OP.

[Ben Sones]

The expensive cables do tend to be well shielded, too, which is great if you live in an area with lots of interference. But it's not even remotely worth the premium that they charge, and you can find cheaper cables with good shielding, if you look hard enough (I was pretty impressed by the thickness of the insulation on the cables from Monoprice). Or you could just buy some ferrites for a dollar or two, and snap those on your cables.

[Sockpuppet]

I remember reading an article many years ago in one of the guitar magazines about Eric Johnson, and how meticulous he was about every single element of his signal chain. He surprised the author of the piece (and, I'm sure, most of the readers), by stating a cable preference. If I'm remembering the article correctly, the difference was subtle and nobody else in the room could catch it, but he could perceive it and it made a difference to him nonetheless.

I'm certainly not about to say that Eric Johnson is an Emperor without clothes (without cables?), and I'm not disputing that there are people who have hearing capable of detecting such subtle differences. What struck me, though, was that the author - presumably somebody with an extensive music or recording background - was absolutely floored by the idea that somebody would claim to hear a difference in cable.

I think the most meaningful stat about most "high performance" cables isn't their frequency response or anything like that... it's the margin the stores can make on them. When I bought my PS3, I was astonished that I couldn't find an HDMI cable at that particular Best Buy for less than around $150. Solution: $30 HDMI cable from the Apple Store across the street. Perceived difference in the quality of my gaming experience: zero!

[Charles]

I think the most meaningful stat about most "high performance" cables isn't their frequency response or anything like that... it's the margin the stores can make on them. When I bought my PS3, I was astonished that I couldn't find an HDMI cable at that particular Best Buy for less than around $150. Solution: $30 HDMI cable from the Apple Store across the street. Perceived difference in the quality of my gaming experience: zero!

You got raped, dear friend.

I've purchased 8 hdmi cables in the last six months. Total price: $35.

[Reldan]

Monster Cables are a ripoff. They're bought by the same people who "need" a Hummer to go to Walmart.


I won't go to Walmart at all. But if someone was to offer me a hummer I'd go. I still wouldn't buy anything though.

[Jon Rowe]

Monster Cables are a ripoff. They're bought by the same people who "need" a Hummer to go to Walmart.

I would need a hummer to get me into a walmart.

[Jaws_au]

People paying insane prices for power cables are also good to laugh at... are they running their magically infused cable all the way back to the power station? Hmm...

[RickH]

I bought a set of PS2 component cables used at Gamestop for $8. They never worked right, the colors would be off and flicker in and out. I took the connnector apart and found that the amazingly thin wire (bigger than a hair, smaller than the thinnest paper clip wire) from the cable to the gold-plated red video connector had broken. I soldered a new connection, but the cables never really worked right.

The $20 Sony cables I bought to replace the Monster Cables work fine, and deliver a lovely 1080i signal to my HD set.

I concluded that Monster was all about the marketing, markup, and flashy external housing.

[John Merva]

Monster Cables are a ripoff. They're bought by the same people who "need" a Hummer to go to Walmart.

Isn't that about as far as you can get on one tankful of petrol in a hummer?

[MyNameIsWill]

Those forum posts are from 2004. I wonder why they just now got noticed.
Gawker pays by page views now. Must have been a slow day.

[krayzkrok]

I'm certainly not about to say that Eric Johnson is an Emperor without clothes (without cables?), and I'm not disputing that there are people who have hearing capable of detecting such subtle differences.

Surely someone out there has done comparative spectrum frequency analysis from an identical source using different cables?

[playingwithknives]

I'm certainly not about to say that Eric Johnson is an Emperor without clothes (without cables?), and I'm not disputing that there are people who have hearing capable of detecting such subtle differences. What struck me, though, was that the author - presumably somebody with an extensive music or recording background - was absolutely floored by the idea that somebody would claim to hear a difference in cable.

He uses George L (http://www.georgelsstore.com/cables.html) cables. Cheaper than the Monster equivalent, I bet.

Eric's ear is legendary, there's an anecdote about him being able to tell what brand of batteries are in his footpedals.

[Nick Walter]

Surely someone out there has done comparative spectrum frequency analysis from an identical source using different cables?

Why would someone do this? The parties financially involved in selling overpriced cables have no motivation to fund something that might expose their business model as a fancy form of fraud dressed in high tech clothing. The publications that cater to the enthusiast market can't alienate the advertisers they keep them in business. Who is left that is interested enough in the topic and has no financial stake in exposing the myths?

[Enidigm]

Why would someone do this? The parties financially involved in selling overpriced cables have no motivation to fund something that might expose their business model as a fancy form of fraud dressed in high tech clothing. The publications that cater to the enthusiast market can't alienate the advertisers they keep them in business. Who is left that is interested enough in the topic and has no financial stake in exposing the myths?

MYTHBUSTERS!

[Nick Walter]

I set myself up for that one didn't I? Yeah I can totally see a mythbusters-esque show tackling something just like this.

[Shadarr]

Surely someone out there has done comparative spectrum frequency analysis from an identical source using different cables?
Yes. CBC did a comparison between a $12 HDMI cable off the internet and a $200 Monster cable. Both were perfect, pixel for pixel, between input and output. They didn't do the coat hanger, though.

[krayzkrok]

Why would someone do this? The parties financially involved in selling overpriced cables have no motivation to fund something that might expose their business model as a fancy form of fraud dressed in high tech clothing. The publications that cater to the enthusiast market can't alienate the advertisers they keep them in business. Who is left that is interested enough in the topic and has no financial stake in exposing the myths?

The same kind of people who compared the coat hanger with Monster cables?

[jfletch]

Why would someone do this? The parties financially involved in selling overpriced cables have no motivation to fund something that might expose their business model as a fancy form of fraud dressed in high tech clothing. The publications that cater to the enthusiast market can't alienate the advertisers they keep them in business. Who is left that is interested enough in the topic and has no financial stake in exposing the myths?

Are expensive cables even something that enthusiasts care about? Most people on AVS just seem to go to Monoprice, and the people that frequent the Hi-End Gear forums have more money than they can count so who cares? I always thought the overpriced cables are for the rubes.

[Houngan]

Exactly, we're mocking the rubes with too much money.

H.

[Flowers]

So that's two ways a coat hanger can save you a couple hundred dollars?

[rjcc]

Are expensive cables even something that enthusiasts care about? Most people on AVS just seem to go to Monoprice, and the people that frequent the Hi-End Gear forums have more money than they can count so who cares? I always thought the overpriced cables are for the rubes.


for long distance runs they can make a difference, but most people don't need that.

[Houngan]

So that's two ways a coat hanger can save you a couple hundred dollars?

I was waiting for someone to make that connection. For shame.

H.

[Bahimiron]

Penny Arcade used to shill for Monster. They even had a guy from Monster who would do a Q&A. Guy had a really awesome handle straight out of Diehard Gamefan, like StormNinjaShadowDragon or something. What I remember most about him was that he'd take questions from PA readers and his answers invariably started with hyperbole meant to establish his AV cred like I have a TV setup that cost more than your car! Possibly your house! That's how rad I am, BITCHES!

It was good stuff. He hasn't been around since. I can only hope it's because they realized Monster is a goddam joke.

[Acid]

I used Monster Cables to build a new power cord for my crock pot, and the food tastes better.

It's true!

[skedastic]

Yes. CBC did a comparison between a $12 HDMI cable off the internet and a $200 Monster cable. Both were perfect, pixel for pixel, between input and output.

That's a fun video. They start off at Future Shop, where the scumbag salesmen insist that their $40 HDMI cable is "crap." It doesn't "clean the electricity" like the Monster cable does, and the picture and sound will be clearly inferior in many dimensions.

http://www.cbc.ca/mrl3/8752/marketplace/packing_the_deal.wmv

[Flowers]

I was waiting for someone to make that connection. For shame.

H.

You should be ashamed, it could have been you that said it.

"Don't worry, you will, Oscar, you will."

[shift6]

That's a fun video. They start off at Future Shop, where the scumbag salesmen insist that their $40 HDMI cable is "crap." It doesn't "clean the electricity" like the Monster cable does, and the picture and sound will be clearly inferior in many dimensions.
I don't know about you Canadians, but red-blooded, meat eating Americans do not want dirty electricity in their computars!

[Rimbo]

http://www.joyoftech.com/joyoftech/joyimages/1082.gif