The Dyatlov Pass Accident

[Qessinge]

This is an amazing story from 1959, I'm sure it influenced Blair Witch...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2008/02/27/notes022708.DTL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyatlov_pass_accident

[antlers]

The avalanche explanation explains nearly everything.

[Alan Dunkin]

I'd call it more of an incident rather than an accident but...

Seems like an avalanche to me; they heard the slab break and they ran for it. The St. Petersburg times article said that skeptics question it because the skiiers ran for over a kilometer. Well, gee, I'd run my ass off to if I thought I could get away from an avalanche. Either that or the avalanche carried them off, where some sustained injuries and others didn't. It wasn't a huge avalanche so some could survive easily near the surface, but they all wound up downslope considerably. Four were already dead and buried deep, no rescuing them (the woman could have easily bit off her own tongue). The others had torn bits of clothes or whatever, make a fire that night just to get a little warm, then they try to get back to their tent instead and die anyway.

As for the radiation.. perhaps there was a bit of testing (or a test caused an avalanche), but it could have been residual from previous testing. Who's to say about the skin & hair; there are times when skin gets blackened and mummified in cold conditions, but not sure the exact rhyme or reason. Plus that's really hearsay.

However.. it is kinda spooky.

--- Alan

[Bill Dungsroman]

The avalanche explanation explains nearly everything.

Aside from the radiation, it really does.

[Houngan]

The "hair turning gray" is a classic bit of embellishment that comes up frequently, except where there is an actual picture to prove it, so I think it can be discarded.

Otherwise, avalanche sounds right. Exposes big vein of radioactive material, Russians cover up new uranium mine, chick gets hit on the head by a boulder and bites her own tongue off.

H.

[Slainte Mhath]

It doesn't even have to be an avalanche that hit the campsite. The wiki entry mentions that investigators noted the place where they were camped has some odd echo/audio properties, so they could have heard an avalanche happening some distance away, thought it was coming down on top of them, and panic set in. The four that were crushed and found under feet of snow may have actually run straight into the avalanche while trying to run away from it. Night, the echo effect and panic can account for the erratic behavior, and once things calmed down the survivors were too far from camp and too disoriented to make it back. Missing tongue woman may have bitten it off herself either in the initial panic (she stumbles, falls and bites through tongue) or in the throes of hypthermia later on. The radiation may have come from exposure to uranium on the mountain as suggested above, or even in the town before they ever set out on the expedition. The orange skin and white hair could be byproducts of being frozen in that environment for weeks/months, or it could be exaggerated urban legend passed down to make the story more spooky.

[Sarkus]

The other issues that hurt or don't fit with the avalanche scenario (which I agree is most likely what happened) are, along with the radiation, the government's strange behavior around the incident. Burying the story, putting pressure on the investigators, the military refusing to help remove the bodies, and the complete closure of the area for two years are all things that don't make sense if it was just an avalanche.

Still, I can't imagine what it would be like to find yourself in those conditions with minimal clothing.

[Bill Dungsroman]

The other issues that hurt or don't fit with the avalanche scenario (which I agree is most likely what happened) are, along with the radiation, the government's strange behavior around the incident. Burying the story, putting pressure on the investigators, the military refusing to help remove the bodies, and the complete closure of the area for two years are all things that don't make sense if it was just an avalanche.

Still, I can't imagine what it would be like to find yourself in those conditions with minimal clothing.

I kind of like Houngan's theory of there being a uranium mine or the like there. That would explain a lot of it.

[antlers]

The other issues that hurt or don't fit with the avalanche scenario (which I agree is most likely what happened) are, along with the radiation, the government's strange behavior around the incident. Burying the story, putting pressure on the investigators, the military refusing to help remove the bodies, and the complete closure of the area for two years are all things that don't make sense if it was just an avalanche.

Still, I can't imagine what it would be like to find yourself in those conditions with minimal clothing.

Except in 1959 I don't think it would take much for the Soviets to close an area off. The fact that it was reopened after, what, 3 years means there was probably nothing there to begin with.

The woman could have lost her tongue to a fox, btw.

[Slainte Mhath]

1959 seems a little early for it, but perhaps there could have been a radioactive materials dump site nearby that the Soviets didn't want the general public finding out about. That might even help explain the strange lights, which could have been helicopters flying in and dropping the waste in the dead of night. The helicopters could have even triggered the avalanche. We'll never really know.

[BlueJackalope]

I'm going with the avalance theory. The everybody running as fast as you can combined with the crushed chests would seem to be the best indicator. Avalanches kill through pressure generally, not sufforcation(sp?).

The radiation could have been deposited by runoff from melting snow that passed through a radioactive source. Natural uranium or a test site (Russia in the 50's). The government acted weird cause it was the Russian Gov'mt in the 50's. Military activity could explain the "weird lights" people reported.

[Alan Dunkin]

Well, avalanches can kill through pressure, though frankly most of avalanche deaths either come from trauma (rolling action with lots of energy can twist you like a pretzel) or suffocation (you may wind up relatively uninjured, but buried under several feet of snow that partially melted during the avalanche, then quickly freezes as soon as it sets and you have no room or space to breathe).

Since the ones that died due to trauma were buried under several feet of snow, avalanche seems like a pretty good explanation.

--- Alan

[UncleSmoothie]

Big long discussion about this on Reddit (http://reddit.com/info/6a50s/comments/) yesterday, for those who are interested in reading more pointless UFO vs avalanche bickering.

[AndrewM]

There was actually a surprisingly low amount of bickering in this thread. Apparently avalanches bring us together.

[Jon Rowe]

avalanche seems pretty solid, except for the lights part and radiation.

It is seriously possible it was an avalanche caused by some sort of military test.

A flash blinded them earlier, and irradiated them, and maybe an explosion later caused an avalanche, but it is pretty much settled that there was an avalanche, and it was the cause of death.

[Robert Sharp]

So the avalanche would cause internal injuries without any external signs? Interesting. It certainly seems most likely. Why does the blog suggest that the authorities found NO sign of natural disaster? Wouldn't there be signs of an avalanche, or does it all go away quickly?

[Qessinge]

There was actually a surprisingly low amount of bickering in this thread. Apparently avalanches bring us together.

Very disappointing...

[Sarkus]

So the avalanche would cause internal injuries without any external signs? Interesting. It certainly seems most likely. Why does the blog suggest that the authorities found NO sign of natural disaster? Wouldn't there be signs of an avalanche, or does it all go away quickly?

That's one of the problems with the avalanche theory. However, it was like three weeks before the search party found the camp, so who knows. Plus, as Slainte Mhath points out, it's possible they ran in panic from an avalanche that didn't actually threaten the camp.

[jpinard]

So the avalanche would cause internal injuries without any external signs? Interesting. It certainly seems most likely. Why does the blog suggest that the authorities found NO sign of natural disaster? Wouldn't there be signs of an avalanche, or does it all go away quickly?

A person being hit with a giant pile of snow, or tumbling down a snowy slope in an avalanche? Absolutely. The sudden rush of snow could also have caused the women to bite her tongue off as she tumbled and was crumpled.

Besides the radiation, the Russian government could have pushed a cover-up because of their terribly slow response. Maybe autopsy showed that some of them survived a few days and could have been rescued if they'd acted sooner. And worse, maybe a sonic boom caused the avalanche itself so the Russian government was to blame. And if locals told the gov't missing people were on the mountain, the govt knew they'd probably been killed, and took their time to get them. Well it doesn't look good to the people. Remember, in Soviet Russia, everything was everyone elese's fault... not the govts!

Also, is it possible their skin turned orange from being frozen yet left out in the sun?

[Bill Dungsroman]

A person being hit with a giant pile of snow, or tumbling down a snowy slope in an avalanche? Absolutely. The sudden rush of snow could also have caused the women to bite her tongue off as she tumbled and was crumpled.

Besides the radiation, the Russian government could have pushed a cover-up because of their terribly slow response. Maybe autopsy showed that some of them survived a few days and could have been rescued if they'd acted sooner. And worse, maybe a sonic boom caused the avalanche itself so the Russian government was to blame. And if locals told the gov't missing people were on the mountain, the govt knew they'd probably been killed, and took their time to get them. Well it doesn't look good to the people. Remember, in Soviet Russia, everything was everyone elese's fault... not the govts!

Also, is it possible their skin turned orange from being frozen yet left out in the sun?

The orange skin and white hair part could easily be hearsay. It's quite likely the corpses were well-preserved due to the extreme cold and the skin may just have looked really odd to someone not used to seeing dead people in that state.

[Sarkus]

The orange skin and white hair part could easily be hearsay. It's quite likely the corpses were well-preserved due to the extreme cold and the skin may just have looked really odd to someone not used to seeing dead people in that state.

Probably, but it is interesting that in one of the articles I've read on this case they did say the skin and hair are typical of jet fuel poisoning.

[BlueJackalope]

There was actually a surprisingly low amount of bickering in this thread. Apparently avalanches bring us together.

Do we have resident UFO theorist? I suspect Qt3 tends to use Occam's razor to slice those types into jerky strips.