Moving Violation On a Bicycle?

[Bullhajj]

I got a ticket for running a red light today on my bicycle. Hard to believe this shit is legal. I rolled up to the light and everyone was stopped. There was construction in one direction, so it was closed, but it had the right of way. Since there was no chance a car would be blocked or I would be hit, I rolled into the crosswalk and crossed the intersection.

The cop tells me I can’t ride my bike in the street and cross in the crosswalk. It’s one or the other! WTF does that even mean? He gives me a $125 moving violation.

What a way to start a week. I am probably in violation of some law, but this seems fucked up. What's the best (cheapest) way to fight it?

[Jerry Sizzler]

I used to work in a city prosecutor's office and often they would just dismiss tickets for people who made the effort to come in during the day to talk to them about it. I don't know if they're in the habit of doing that where you live and it'll probably be tricky to catch them out of court, but it's probably worth a shot.

[Charles]

Bikes are vehicles. Obey the road rules, tard, they are there for a reason.

That being said, you are allowed to walk your bike across a crosswalk. Riding it in the crosswalk is akin to riding your bike on the sidewalk, and that shit needs to be stamped the fuck out.

[BlueJackalope]

What a way to start a week. I am probably in violation of some law, but this seems fucked up. What's the best (cheapest) way to fight it?


You in Portland? I've been seeing cops bust a lot of bikers recently.
Portland cops have had a hard on for bikers for a while now.

But yeah check the option where you actually want to go to court. If you aren't a chronic scofflaw and overall dick they will knock it down to court costs (20 - 50 bucks probably) if not dismiss it.

[Bullhajj]

Bikes are vehicles. Obey the road rules, tard, they are there for a reason.

That being said, you are allowed to walk your bike across a crosswalk. Riding it in the crosswalk is akin to riding your bike on the sidewalk, and that shit needs to be stamped the fuck out.

Dude, the cop told me I could ride on the sidewalk and not get a ticket. He said he was giving me the ticket for switching back and forth between sidewalk and road.

I spend 80% of my biking time on the sidewalk. The fucking road has cars that can kill you. Get your slow walking ass out the way.

[Bullhajj]

You in Portland? I've been seeing cops bust a lot of bikers recently.
Portland cops have had a hard on for bikers for a while now.

But yeah check the option where you actually want to go to court. If you aren't a chronic scofflaw and overall dick they will knock it down to court costs (20 - 50 bucks probably) if not dismiss it.

I was in Redmond. I would just like to point out that this cop was a hard-on, a fuck-knuckle, with a tiny little dick.

[Bullhajj]

I used to work in a city prosecutor's office and often they would just dismiss tickets for people who made the effort to come in during the day to talk to them about it. I don't know if they're in the habit of doing that where you live and it'll probably be tricky to catch them out of court, but it's probably worth a shot.

Goddamn right Jerry. I'm checking the bottom box and hoping for the best. Is there no justice? Jesus.

[Machfive]

I grew up riding my bike on the sidewalk. Now, given, this was in the suburbs, so nobody else was on them half the time, but I always gave any pedestrians a wide berth or would move onto the grass temporarily to pass peds by.

I don't know what kind of asshole bikers some of you have had to deal with, but as far as I'm concerned, the only thing that belongs on roads are vehicles that aren't powered by your legs.

Bikes, segways, what have you, is perfectly fine on sidewalks.

[Kitus J.]

As an avid cyclist for several years, I have seen many many times that cops don't know the laws as they pertain to cyclists. In this case, I'm sad to say he was probably right to give you a ticket but wrong to say to ride on the sidewalk. Cyclists are supposed to obey the traffic laws. Despite his sunny post, Charles is right.

Atlanta traffic is pretty bad so obeying the law is generally the safer route here. That being said, I have run my share of red lights. ; )

[Bullhajj]

There are three options on the back of the ticket, but I'm not sure what to check.

1) I did it. Here is the money.
2) I did it, but I want a hearing.
3) I didn't do it.

How do I know? I have never fought the law before. I just think it's fucked up to give me a ticket. My defense is that I looked both ways and didn't block traffic. I am leaning toward checking #3.

[Guido Jones]

I don't know what kind of asshole bikers some of you have had to deal with, but as far as I'm concerned, the only thing that belongs on roads are vehicles that aren't powered by your legs.

Bikes, segways, what have you, is perfectly fine on sidewalks.

There's a lot of bikers in this area (Redmond is the Bike capital of the NW!), and a lot of them think zipping within a foot of a pedestrian going 25 - 30 miles an hour is not only a good idea, but necessary.

[tiohn]

Check #3.

[Charles]

I grew up riding my bike on the sidewalk. Now, given, this was in the suburbs, so nobody else was on them half the time, but I always gave any pedestrians a wide berth or would move onto the grass temporarily to pass peds by.

I don't know what kind of asshole bikers some of you have had to deal with, but as far as I'm concerned, the only thing that belongs on roads are vehicles that aren't powered by your legs.

Bikes, segways, what have you, is perfectly fine on sidewalks.

Every city I've lived in outside of Vancouver (where cyclists are required to be on the road and not the sidewalk, or the bike cops will beat your ass) is full of assholes on bikes who think they own the sidewalk, to the point where I've been ridden in to more than a few times by cocks who believe pedestrians should be aware of things moving five times as fast as themselves, and coming from behind.

Fuck you if you ride a bike on the sidewalk, I hope someone sticks a metal rod in the spokes of your front tire.

[Machfive]

There's a lot of bikers in this area (Redmond is the Bike capital of the NW!), and a lot of them think zipping within a foot of a pedestrian going 25 - 30 miles an hour is not only a good idea, but necessary.

Well, that's the bikers being assholes. You slow down when in close proximity to peds, and if you don't, you deserve any clothesline to the throat that the peds might happen to throw out.

Every city I've lived in

Well that's the problem. You're in a city and people are acting like cocksuckers? Really? Next thing you know you'll tell me your rent is sky-high and traffic is a bitch.

[Charles]

Well, that's the bikers being assholes. You slow down when in close proximity to peds, and if you don't, you deserve any clothesline to the throat that the peds might happen to throw out.

hahahahhaha!

I don't know what kind of utopia you live in, but if I ever see a cyclist slow down near a pedestrian, I'll mail you twenty fucking dollars.

[tiohn]

The people who make the sidewalks a dangerous place for peds are usually the same people who make the roads a dangerous place for cyclists.

[Guido Jones]

According to the Municipal Code of Redmond (http://www.codepublishing.com/WA/redmond/Municode/redmnd10.htm#1048)

10.48.020 Obedience to traffic control devices.
(a) Any person operating a bicycle shall obey the instructions of official traffic control signals, signs, and other control devices applicable to vehicles, unless otherwise directed by a police officer.

(b) Whenever authorized signs are erected indicating that no right or left or "U" turn is permitted, no person operating a bicycle shall disobey the direction of any such sign, except where the person dismounts from the bicycle to make a turn, in which event the person shall then obey the regulations applicable to pedestrians. (Ord. 924 § 2 (part), 1980; Ord. 304 § 77, 1963).


There's also some stuff about not riding your bike on sidewalks as well in the city center, but I'll let you figure that out.

[Qmanol]

Yeah, I don't know exactly what the rules are for you, but here, you dismount to cross a road.

[Dumdeedum]

I sympathise with you Bullhajj, the other day I was driving through town and my phone rang, sadly it was in the glove box and as I was leaning over to get it I accidentally knocked over my beer which I'd balanced on the centre console. Anyway, to cut a long story short, while mopping it up I accidentally ran a red light and the police were total dicks about it.

[Shadarr]

Nothing against Bullhajj, but I hope the ticket sticks. Running a light is running a light whether you do it in the crosswalk or not. I always hope there will be a cop around when I see some cyclist slow down at a red light, then slowly loop over into the crosswalk and run it while all the law-abiding drivers are waiting for it to change. When I ride my bike, I ride the same way I drive--obeying traffic laws (except the one that says you shouldn't pass on the shoulder).

[Funkula]

I'm not casting any stones, but I know that when I'm riding, if I'm on a street/intersection major enough to warrant a light, I'm obeying that bitch, because a car could come out of nowhere and cream me. I'll usually get up on the sidewalk and press the pedestrian "change light" button, then ride across in the crosswalk and hop back on the street on the other side. Mostly, though, I try to limit my cycling to residential streets (where I run stop signs with impunity unless there are cars around) and bike trails. Being on the same road as cars scares the shit out of me.

[Guido Jones]

Well, that's the bikers being assholes. You slow down when in close proximity to peds, and if you don't, you deserve any clothesline to the throat that the peds might happen to throw out.



Wouldn't you want to Side Suto them instead?

Anyway, while I agree with the sentiment it's better for all around if people just obey the law (including bicyclists).

[Machfive]

Wouldn't you want to Side Suto them instead?

They're being assholes and all, but they don't deserve to die, man, jesus. That's just cold.

[Lunch of Kong]

I rolled up to the light... I rolled into the crosswalk and crossed the intersection.


The correct course of action in this situation is to dismount and then walk the bicycle through the pedestrian crosswalk as a pedestrian. Anything else is probably a moving violation that a cop will (and has) cite you for.

Then again, I say this as a cyclist who stops at all stop signs even if there is no one coming. If Charles ever saw me ride, he would owe someone $20.

[Alan Au]

I've seen them do this on the Burke-Gilman trail over by the UW. A fellow grad student got hit with it too, and we were trying to figure out what the actual laws were. Apparently, the sucky part is that he was cited using the motor vehicle code, which can be used in place of the bike laws. The only upside is that it doesn't go on his motor vehicle record.

Our main complaint is that they could have had the same effect by going around and issuing warnings, or posting a sign, or something so that people know. Charging people $100+ just comes off as a quick money grab. I mean, shouldn't they be out preventing violent crime or something? With all of the violent assaults on the UW campus lately, you'd think the police would have better things to do than shake down the student population for money. Yay, your municipal tax dollars at work.

- Alan

[Lizard_King]

There's entire towns in the United States apparently built on money taken from speed traps. Everything between a major highway and a military town, for instance, is guaranteed to be designed that way. (55,55,55,55,35 OH SHIT).

I don't see why anyone would be surprised to find that police are encouraged to pull the same bullshit with cyclists vs a warning or whatever. So I'd say it's more like your municipal tax dollars being made in the first place.

[Ezdaar]

I ride on the sidewalk when I have to here since we have "Share the Road" signs rather than bike lanes on a lot of major streets. If I hit someone on the sidewalk(and it wouldn't be fast, Charles would also owe someone $20 if he saw me ride near pedestrians) there would be cursing and some bruising perhaps. If I'm in the road and some idiot mopping up his beer hits me I'll probably be dead or at the very least in the hospital with multiple fractures.

[malphigian]

I've had countless cyclists near clip me on the road because they don't think traffic laws apply to them. I actually had a guy yell at me to get out of the way as he sailed through a red light in prospect park. I was pushing a stroller at the time.

I've been commuting as a pedestrian for 10 years, and bikes have been far more of a problem for me than cars. I'm happy cops are writing tickets for this, I hope they start doing more of it in NYC. I'm sure you were being careful and all while you ran the light, but plenty of your fellow riders aren't, and I'm pretty tired of it.

[shift6]

There are three options on the back of the ticket, but I'm not sure what to check.

1) I did it. Here is the money.
2) I did it, but I want a hearing.
3) I didn't do it.

How do I know? I have never fought the law before. I just think it's fucked up to give me a ticket. My defense is that I looked both ways and didn't block traffic. I am leaning toward checking #3.
Don't check #3, bro. You aren't disputing that you did, in fact, perform this action. You're disputing the citation considering the situation, your prior record, etc. If you check #3 but go tell the judge that you did it and want to talk about it, he's going to ask WTF.

[krayzkrok]

The problem is, half the people who drive or ride think it's perfectly acceptable to become a giant dick as soon as they get into or onto a vehicle.

[Hanzii]

Dude, the cop told me I could ride on the sidewalk and not get a ticket. He said he was giving me the ticket for switching back and forth between sidewalk and road.

I spend 80% of my biking time on the sidewalk. The fucking road has cars that can kill you. Get your slow walking ass out the way.


I've learned from reading QT3 that carrying a firearm in the US is more or less your patriotic duty.
I would use mine to gun down cyclists on the sidewalk.

[Bullhajj]

Don't check #3, bro. You aren't disputing that you did, in fact, perform this action. You're disputing the citation considering the situation, your prior record, etc. If you check #3 but go tell the judge that you did it and want to talk about it, he's going to ask WTF.

I'm gonna tell him I wanted a check box for "I can't believe you're charging me 125 bones for this!"

[Bullhajj]

I've learned from reading QT3 that carrying a firearm in the US is more or less your patriotic duty.
I would use mine to gun down cyclists on the sidewalk.


I'm mounting a .50 cal on my fucking bike. Right next to the little honky horn, with the red bulb.

[Demon G Sides]

I'm mounting a .50 cal on my fucking bike. Right next to the little honky horn, with the red bulb.

Holy shit.

There HAS to be a post apocalyptic fiction where this has been.

If not, someone must make one quickly.

Also; isn't that a bit overkill?

[Nathan Phoenix]

Nothing against Bullhajj, but I hope the ticket sticks. Running a light is running a light whether you do it in the crosswalk or not. I always hope there will be a cop around when I see some cyclist slow down at a red light, then slowly loop over into the crosswalk and run it while all the law-abiding drivers are waiting for it to change. When I ride my bike, I ride the same way I drive--obeying traffic laws (except the one that says you shouldn't pass on the shoulder).

QFT. This is one of my absolute biggest pet peeves when I have to drive near MSU. So many fucking cyclists here want the privilege of using the street but don't want all the rules that go with it to apply to them. The only difference is around campus the bikers don't even make a show of moving over to the crosswalk - they just slide between cars and run through the light.

[Rywill]

In LA, as I understand it, bicyclists have to obey the same rules that cars do. That means no running red lights, even if you run them by first driving up onto the sidewalk where people might be walking.

On Kong's point, I have long heard rumors that the fines collected at the Metro courthouse (which is LA's main traffic court) pay for every other court in the entire county. And having worked at many of them, let me tell you, there are a lot of other courthouses in this goddamn county.

[Lunch of Kong]

On Kong's point

That was Lizard King, but I don't disagree.

[Lloyd Heilbrunn]

Visiting Germany last year, it took a couple of days to figure out why I had to keep dodging bikes which seemed intent to kill me.

They mark their bike lanes on the sidewalk there.....

[Funkula]

Holy shit.

There HAS to be a post apocalyptic fiction where this has been.

If not, someone must make one quickly.

Also; isn't that a bit overkill?

Does the "chaingun on the motorcycle" bit from Machete count?

[Rywill]

That was Lizard King, but I don't disagree.
Whoops. Some prosecutor I am.

"And as you can see, ladies and gentlemen, this man is clearly guilty of shooting the victim in the head."
"Actually, it was the other guy who shot him."
"Whatever. The People rest."

[Hanzii]

In LA, as I understand it, bicyclists have to obey the same rules that cars do. That means no running red lights, even if you run them by first driving up onto the sidewalk where people might be walking.


See, this is what I don't get with all your local legislation.
Here the rules are simple and taught early. A bike belongs on the road unless specifically prohibited (freeways) or where there's a dedicated bikepath. On bike you have to obey the same rules as a car. You can cross the street as a pedestrian if you walk and pull the bike, but then you have to obey all pedestrian rules.
Fines will be given out.

Of course this goes out the window in the inner city of Copenhagen - but at least the rules are clear, so you know when it's allright to fine/kill a cyclist.

[Coca Cola Zero]

See, this is what I don't get with all your local legislation.
Here the rules are simple and taught early. A bike belongs on the road unless specifically prohibited (freeways) or where there's a dedicated bikepath. On bike you have to obey the same rules as a car. You can cross the street as a pedestrian if you walk and pull the bike, but then you have to obey all pedestrian rules.
Fines will be given out.


Those are basically the rules everywhere I've lived in the US (quite a few places) and I'd be surprised if they weren't essentially universal even if the legislation is local and not state or national. While these rules generally aren't taught in schools or anything (we are a car-loving people), I haven't run into many regular bikers who aren't aware of them. As a regular biker myself, I knowingly bend/break the rules once in a while, but if I were ever to get caught doing it I'd just suck it up and pay the ticket.

[Brendan]

This is my pet peave.

I used to ride up a dangerous mountain pass to work that was popular with cyclists. They would always huff and puff while hogging the middle of the road at 5km/h even though the pass was rife with blind corners. They would always barrel through the stop street at the bottom of the pass.

Cyclists always ignore the rules of the road when it suits them, yet they always bitch when motorists don't treat them the same way they would a car.

Either you obey all the rules of the road, or you're fair game.

[Bullhajj]

I can't believe all the bicycle hate in this thread. No wonder the officer gave me a ticket. I don't care about all your 'effen expereinces with bikers blasting through stops signs or hogging the road.

Rolling into the crosswalk after looking both ways is a perfectly safe, fine, way to ride a bike. If you're not blocking traffic, holding a person's toes to the fire for doing the most natural thing in the world at a crosswalk is just stupid, pedantical.

[Wholly Schmidt]

Yeah, but it's illegal to do what you did, and it's not illegal for the cop to be a prick. Do you just want us to say "Poor Bullhajj!"?

Edit: And I'm not saying I'm not frustrated when I get a speeding ticket or that it's ok for me either. I get that you don't like it, but what do you want us to say?

[Nick Walter]

Rolling into the crosswalk after looking both ways is a perfectly safe, fine, way to ride a bike. If you're not blocking traffic, holding a person's toes to the fire for doing the most natural thing in the world at a crosswalk is just stupid, pedantical.

The law is the law man. Especially on those simple misdemeanors were the law says "Activity X is illegal" then activity X is illegal. Regardless of whether breaking it was safe or unsafe in that situation. The rules are the rules and supposed to be followed so as to avoid people getting in the habit of disregarding them in the unsafe situations.

Literally every moving violation I've ever received in a car has come in circumstances where I was being plenty safe. Speeding on a low traffic nearly-empty road, rolling through a stop sign at a deserted intersection, etc.

So yeah, my sympathy-meter is reading zero there. Sorry man, not trying to pick on you, but just explaining what I think is the viewpoint of a lot of people in this thread.

[Marcin]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the biker/cop agreement here in Eugene is "If we don't catch you doing it, you're fine. Otherwise, pay up."

I lucked out and got only a warning when slow-rolling through a stop sign (everyone else blasts through, typically). I'll pay more attention (to cop presence) next time.

[tiohn]

True story:

I was thinking about this exact situation this morning, while driving my car.

Thinking so hard, in fact, that I ran a red light. I imagine that I'll be getting one of those camera tickets soon. Thanks, Bulhajj.

[Lunch of Kong]

Ditto Misters Walter and Schmidt. Cutting through a corner gas station in your car instead of waiting at the corner to turn right might be safe, but is against the law.

It sucks that you got a ticket for something you didn't know was illegal. Can you lobby to change the law?

If there were a lobby to change the Texas Transportation code to allow cyclists to treat stop signs as yield signs, I'd give them my money.

[Alan Au]

Re-reading the original post, this was a traffic light at a road intersection, no? *My* complaint was about a stop-sign on the walking path, which is to say that it wasn't a road (it runs along an embankment above the road). The warning is that the police will still issue tickets to bikes on the trail, as if they were road violations.

- Alan

[Eightball]

I was in Redmond. I would just like to point out that this cop was a hard-on, a fuck-knuckle, with a tiny little dick.

He gave you more than just a ticket, didn't he?

[Charles]

Those are basically the rules everywhere I've lived in the US (quite a few places) and I'd be surprised if they weren't essentially universal even if the legislation is local and not state or national. While these rules generally aren't taught in schools or anything (we are a car-loving people), I haven't run into many regular bikers who aren't aware of them. As a regular biker myself, I knowingly bend/break the rules once in a while, but if I were ever to get caught doing it I'd just suck it up and pay the ticket.

Same rules I know, and they *were* taught in school for me. In a small town of 6000. Shit, I even know the hand signals.

[Bahimiron]

God. The only thing worse than the drivers in Boston are the shitbags on bikes who don't think any traffic laws apply to them. Drivers are told to treat bikes as another car and give them the same distance on every side that they'd give a car, yet bikers ignore red lights, stop signs, weave through traffic like they're fucking immortal. Agh!

You getting a ticket makes me feel better about the world. Sorry, but it does.

[Nick Walter]

Can you lobby to change the law?


I was surprised to find out recently that such a thing is more feasible than one would think.

Apparently Nebraska had some backwards old law still on the books that made it illegal to drive with lights on during the day. The theory apparently being that during the day only a distressed stopped vehicle would have need to have lights on. I would guess this law predates the invention of hazard lights. Anyway, someone actually got ticketed for it recently. In his nice new Toyota that has no option to turn the lights off ever, no less. Some cop must have been under quota. This guy called his state senators office and raised a bit of a stink and the law got changed pretty dang quick.

[TheRock]

Bikes are vehicles. Obey the road rules, tard, they are there for a reason.

That being said, you are allowed to walk your bike across a crosswalk. Riding it in the crosswalk is akin to riding your bike on the sidewalk, and that shit needs to be stamped the fuck out.

I ALWAYS ride on the sidewalk....not in downtown areas of course, where I wouldn't ride anyhow, but normally I ride my mountain bike on the sidewalk...I ain't getting hit by a fooking idiot car.

[Hetzer]

Visiting Germany last year, it took a couple of days to figure out why I had to keep dodging bikes which seemed intent to kill me.

They mark their bike lanes on the sidewalk there.....

You did WHAT? You do have a little death wish, right? A bike hitting you with 30 - 40 km/H will kill you excactly as a car with that momentum... and yes we do have sideways for bikes but they are not everywhere...

[Bullhajj]

Yeah, but it's illegal to do what you did, and it's not illegal for the cop to be a prick. Do you just want us to say "Poor Bullhajj!"?

Edit: And I'm not saying I'm not frustrated when I get a speeding ticket or that it's ok for me either. I get that you don't like it, but what do you want us to say?


Bullhajj calls bullshit, Wholly. It is not my job to tell you WTF to say. I am only responsible for expressing my delight or displeasure with whatever you come up with.

[Bullhajj]

All you guys are fucking with me, not giving me the goddamn sympathy I crave. Bastards. None of you understand me!

I wish prostitutes gave sympathy, becuase then I could just go to one of those porn sites and purchase some. As it is, I must suffer here at my desk, typing into this mean, heartless, thread. Woe is fucking me.

[Wholly Schmidt]

Tim Elhajj, crying, while cycling.

[Enduro_Man]

There's entire towns in the United States apparently built on money taken from speed traps. Everything between a major highway and a military town, for instance, is guaranteed to be designed that way. (55,55,55,55,35 OH SHIT).
New Rome, Ohio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Rome,_Ohio) was probably the best example, until it was dissolved by the state a few years back.

My prime biking years were spent in Vancouver, which drilled into my head that a cyclist is a vehicle when riding, a pedestrian when walking, but can never be both at once. Unfortunately, even in a bike-friendly city, this still means you're a second-class vehicle, liable to be clipped by side mirrors, slammed by opening doors, and honked at for any perceived offense. It sucks, but at least you'll be in great shape when that Escalade slams into you.

[Bullhajj]

Tim Elhajj, crying, while cycling.

And furiously masturbating. No wonder he can't be bothered to walk his bike through intersections!