College Football 12/1 [Archive] - Quarter To Three Forums

triggercut

12-01-2007, 09:25 PM

Chase is crap. How is this guy even in the running for the Heisman?

33 TD's and 3600 yds passing against some tough competition, dipshit. He doesn't have Tebow (or even McFadden's) numbers, but he's deserving of a quick mention in the same sentence.

Chase is terrific, but Oklahoma's defense was better tonight.

Grats to the Sooners, and grats to the teams who get to go to New Orleans in January.

Sarkus

12-01-2007, 11:36 PM

Most commentators seem to think Ohio State will be the new #1. The question is who is #2. Georgia went into the weekend #4, but it's going to be hard to put them in when they didn't even play in their own conference championship. Same for Kansas, even though they have only one loss. That leaves VTech, LSU, Arizona State, or maybe Oklahoma. It's a giant mess because no matter who get's the nod it will probably be only by a few BCS points and the odd men out will bitch forever.

Hanacker

12-02-2007, 01:04 AM

Hawaii should be in the motherfucking Sugar Bowl. Really don't care about anything else right now.

Tyjenks

12-02-2007, 04:38 AM

Yeah, Georgia not playing in the conference championship rules them out. Just based on last week's rankings, I would think it would be an LSU/OSU match up. Being out of town for work and coming in late Friday, my days were thrown off and I did not even turn on the TV yesterday. I missed every single game. I am soooo pissed.

Stroker Ace

12-02-2007, 04:53 AM

Ohio State didn't play in their conference championship either, why do they get to go to the title game then?

Tyjenks

12-02-2007, 05:41 AM

One loss. If they had 2 losses and as their conference has no championship, I would move them down the list as well. I would like to see Georgia, but since the SEC does have a champion and Georgia did not go as they did not qualify based on regular season results, you have to reward LSU. That or do away with conference championship games.

Maybe Oklahoma, but I do not think the polls will be able to jack them up high enough (from their #9 spot) to give enough weight within the BCS formula. VT gets ruled out as they were slaughtered by LSU earlier in the year. USC has exactly 2 wins against teams who finished the season with winning records. Maybe Hawaii will schedule decent, out of conference teams now.

I know the bitching will now re-commence regarding the BCS, but people bitched about human voters showing too much bias before. That is why the BCS was created. I still do not see how creating a playoff will solve anything. With all of the 2 loss teams and the info above (which represents only a fraction of the factors to be considered) how do you select 4 teams. I would think the selection of four, in the current year at least, would result in an even more contentious debate.

Not sure what will happen, but whatever teams are spit out will be good enough for me. Hell, they can change to a playoff system, remove the computers from the equation, or go back to 2 separate polls and the possibility of a shared national championship, but complaining about a system, no matter what it is, seems pointless. You go into each season with an imperfect system in place that applies to everyone. This is whatcha get.

Ryan A

12-02-2007, 06:32 AM

I hate the BCS and refuse to dignify it with a prediction.

Also, last night's Pitt-WVU game made me wonder if that officiating crew has a gambling problem or something. There were two huge holding calls that anybody could see weren't holding that went against Pitt late in the game to call back a touchdown and a key first down. Thankfully Pitt managed to hang on to the upset win despite the best (worst?) efforts of the officials.

RickH

12-02-2007, 06:42 AM

Hawaii is the only undefeated team in the division, they should play.

Robert Sharp

12-02-2007, 07:00 AM

Hawaii hasn't played anyone.

And for the record (responding to Tyler's post), the conference championships are unrelated to the BCS. They are a tradition that precedes the BCS and have more to do with settling a final victor for the conference than trying to give one more game to help decide which team should be in a bowl. LSU lost 2 games. UGA lost 2 games. That's all the BCS can say about it. However, the voters may attempt to put LSU ahead of UGA for the reasons mentioned.

I think the national game should be OSU vs. LSU personally. I'd love to watch that game, too.

Tyjenks

12-02-2007, 08:01 AM

And for the record (responding to Tyler's post), the conference championships are unrelated to the BCS. They are a tradition that precedes the BCS and have more to do with settling a final victor for the conference than trying to give one more game to help decide which team should be in a bowl. LSU lost 2 games. UGA lost 2 games. That's all the BCS can say about it. However, the voters may attempt to put LSU ahead of UGA for the reasons mentioned..

Oh yeah, I get that. However, I was more considering the effect the winning of the conference championship will have on the polls that do factor into the BCS rankings. SInce LSU is a spot or 2 or 3 behind Georgia, I would imagine yesterdays win may vault them over Georgia in those polls.

In a league where Hawaii gets in, every team would jump out of their power conferences and schedule weak non-conference games. I would prefer that not happen.

12-02-2007, 08:06 AM

I know it's all subjective, but why not OU? If LSU gets the nod for winning the SEC (which I have no problem with), why not OU over OSU? They just beat the #1 team in the country by 21 points at a neutral site. Who's more impressive right now, OU or OSU?

Should OSU be rewarded for sitting at home any more than Georgia or Kansas? Has OSU played anyone in the top 10? (hint: no) If we're just going to fall back on record, where's Hawaii?

Damn, I hate this system. Not necessarily because my team isn't going to make it, but because it's just so blatantly stupid. There are group of about 6-8 teams that should play it out. Arghhh!

Tyjenks

12-02-2007, 08:11 AM

Yeah, those pansies need a conference championship game, but it sure seems that every year, it is better for the team higher up in the rankings to not have to play one. I can see why they opt out.

12-02-2007, 08:31 AM

To be fair, no one should knock OSU for what the Big Ten decides to do with their conference. It's just such an uneven and subjective system right now fueled primarily by money and tradition.

I think Robert's right, its going to be OSU vs LSU and I think the Tigers will roll them in a blowout. (Just not that impressed with what I have seen of OSU this year.)

Tyjenks

12-02-2007, 08:42 AM

Well, I have seen almost every meaningful LSU game and many of their wins (Auburn and Alabama off the top of my head for two) came from fourth quarter comebacks as they cannot seem to play a full 4 quarters every game. I think the game will be as unpredictable as the entire season has been (If that who it ends up being).

I was only half serious about the Big Ten. I certainly wouldn't put in a championship game in hopes that it would in anyway help the conference leaders where the BCS is concerned. None of the conferences that have them can ever go back as the money, as you said, is phenomenal surrounding those games.

Crispus

12-02-2007, 10:39 AM

The coaches' poll is out. Looks like OSU vs. LSU, alright: link (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/usatpoll.htm)

Hanacker

12-02-2007, 12:46 PM

Maybe Hawaii will schedule decent, out of conference teams now.

They're trying. They had at least two teams pull out on them this year and offered to play Michigan at Michigan, but they picked Appalachian State instead (lol). As far as I can tell, the weak schedule isn't really their fault. Maybe there's more they could be doing to get decent teams to play them, but I have no idea what goes on behind closed doors.

Sarkus

12-02-2007, 01:06 PM

They're trying. They had at least two teams pull out on them this year and offered to play Michigan at Michigan, but they picked Appalachian State instead (lol). As far as I can tell, the weak schedule isn't really their fault. Maybe there's more they could be doing to get decent teams to play them, but I have no idea what goes on behind closed doors.

Yeah, I don't blame Hawaii. IIRC, they were supposed to play Mich State this year and state pulled out. Hawaii's problem is that if you are in a BCS conference you don't need to play anyone outside to get any credit so why would you risk playing a good team?

jfletch

12-02-2007, 05:55 PM

OSU vs. LSU, what a terrible championship game. I am predicting an LSU blowout, just the same as last year. I am just kind of sick of this year at this point. Yesterday's WVU-Pitt game was the final straw. It's like nobody wants to win.

I am glad the season is finally over, hopefully tomorrow my UCLA Bruins will finally fire Karl Dorrell, the worst coach in D-1 college football. That game yesterday against hated USC was the same sort of bullshit you always get from the Dorrell-led Bruins; sloppy play, boring and ineffective offense, mistake-filled defense, uninspired play from start to finish. Its almost hard to believe we had preseason top 10 rankings, what a joke. Another crappy year with a December bowl (pre Christmas, even) against a midmajor.

Hanacker

12-02-2007, 06:00 PM

They all would have been terrible championship games. But a fantastic 8-12 team playoff.

RickH

12-02-2007, 06:34 PM

They all would have been terrible championship games. But a fantastic 8-12 team playoff.

1 - Big 10 champ
2 - Big 12 champ
3 - SEC champ
4 - PAC 10 champ
5 - ACC champ
6 - Big East champ
7 - slot for MAC, WAC, whatever (maybe a play-in?)
8 - wild card

If I were dictator of football, it would be so.

Ryan A

12-02-2007, 06:40 PM

If I were dictator of football, it would be so.

At least make good use of your dictatorship:

Make it a 16 team playoff. Eliminate non-conference play to compensate for the extra games. Force Notre Dame into a conference and take away their NBC deal. Figure out a way to clone Keith Jackson circa 1985 for the commentary. Kill the Stanford tree mascot and make all cheerleaders as gorgeous (and nicely attired) as the USC cheer squad. Bring back Chief Illiniwek. Require a minimum SAT score of 1100 before an athletic scholarship can be awarded. Presto-chango, college football is perfect.

TriggerHappy

12-02-2007, 10:16 PM

People freak out at the thought of the two extra games from an 8 game playoff, let's take baby steps. The 6 main conferences and two wildcards sounds like the best solution to me.

triggercut

12-02-2007, 10:39 PM

Sarkus

12-03-2007, 01:13 AM

Mizzou beat Illinois. Mizzou beat Kansas.

Kansas and Illinois get BCS bowl bids.

Mizzou does not.

Although Fifth Down gave me an inkling, today certainly confirmed that God hates the Missouri Tigers. Oh well.

I wouldn't blame Illinois for Missouri getting screwed. It's not widely realized, but the BCS rules only allow two teams per conference to play in BCS bowls, so with three top ten teams, one Big 12 team was going to get screwed no matter what. It should have been Kansas, but Illinois being taken had no bearing on anything.

Brad Grenz

12-03-2007, 01:17 AM

Yeah, two teams from the Big 10 on a down year is pretty much bullshit. I'm mostly annoyed because ASU didn't get an at large spot so Oregon State as 3rd in the Pac-10 doesn't get to go to the Holiday Bowl. And they aren't going to the Sun bowl either which usually takes number 3 since they went there last year (they picked Oregon who lost the Civil War). They are going to the Emerald bowl to play a 6-6 Maryland team. Lame.

And I agree that you can't blame WAC teams for weak non-conference schedules. Hawaii, Boise State, Fresno State take a play anyone, anywhere philosophy. But even PAC-10 teams have enough trouble getting good match ups against quality opponents around the country. You know how many hoops Oregon had to jump through to get two games with Michigan? Don't expect to see Michigan sign for more anytime soon. It's always great to see stuff like that, or Oregon State against LSU a few years back but it's not easy to make it happen since Michigan or Ohio State will make a lot more money a home playing a cupcake then a road game against in a much smaller stadium.

VegasRobb

12-03-2007, 02:10 AM

I have a feeling that most teams will copy what OSU did this year and play the softest non-conference schedule possible. There's no reason not to because the benefits outweigh any negatives. The absolute worst thing that comes from soft schedules is criticism. Big deal. Perhaps the Big 10 will be stronger in the future, but it worked this year for OSU and it worked the last couple years for Notre Dame.

BennyProfane

12-03-2007, 06:38 AM

But the difference for OSU this year is, they not only played cupcakes non-conference, they played cupcakes the rest of their schedule too--including their one loss.

I recognize that the NCAA is never going to put together a playoff in Division 1, because of the huge sums of money stacked against it. But at the VERY FUCKING LEAST, they need to change the BCS rules to eliminate the conference tie-ins. Strength of schedule really needs to play a more prominant role in the rankings.

Phil_Stein

12-03-2007, 07:42 AM

Let's say you had an 8 team play-off, with 6 slots to conference winners, and 2 to at-large teams. Although Notre Dame is terrible at the moment, I think over the long run, ND might claim an at large spot about half the time. Also, about half the time, you're going to have an undefeated team from a minor conference (like Hawaii) claiming an at large spot, meaning that you might average about 1 at-large spot per year for a BCS conference team that didn't win its own conference. i.e. For BCS conference teams, your opportunity to make the playoffs comes about 6/7 from winning your conference, and 1/7 from an at-large bid.

The problem is, this makes the ~4 non-conference games that teams play annually almost entirely pointless. IIUC, in the main conferences, only your conference record matters. So you've essentially got a long pre-season. We all know how exciting the NFL's preseason is - now imagine something similar for college, albeit with the 4 games constituting a much larger fraction of each team's schedule.

Rimbo

12-03-2007, 10:53 AM

It's more stubbornness than money, because done properly, the people who have a financial interest in the bowl system can be easily pacified with the even greater gobs of cash that would flow with a proper tournament. (cf. NCAA basketball tourney)

some people are just afraid of change

Woolen Horde

12-03-2007, 10:58 AM

Alan Dunkin

12-03-2007, 11:13 AM

Georgia's offense isn't all that great, but their defense should really punish Hawaii's one-sided attack. Vegas has Georgia as a 10.5 point favorite.

--- Alan

Tyjenks

12-03-2007, 11:29 AM

While I appreciate teams from the lesser conferences attempts to schedule higher quality opponents, the fact is they do not/cannot and their schedule strengths suffer. I would not like any system that rewards teams that go undefeated in that way. Maybe in an 8 team playoff I could see an undefeated Hawaii given a spot....Maybe.

Still glad Kansas lost. ; P

Squirrel Killer

12-03-2007, 01:26 PM

Yeah, two teams from the Big 10 on a down year is pretty much bullshit.
So down that 10 of the Big 10 teams were bowl eligible.

But the difference for OSU this year is, they not only played cupcakes non-conference, they played cupcakes the rest of their schedule too--including their one loss.
Right, Illinois at 9-3 and with a #13 ranking is a cupcake.

Phil_Stein

12-03-2007, 01:37 PM

Bowl eligibility is not all it's cracked up to be.

If a team with a 9 game conferences schedule schedules 3 patsies non-conference, then it only needs 3 conference wins to be bowl eligible, IIUC. If you have one team in your conference that goes, say, 0-9 in the conference schedule (i.e. the conference doormat), and if the other teams beat their non-conference patsies, then they only need to be 2-6 in the conference schedule against the non-doormats to be bowl eligible.

Sarkus

12-03-2007, 02:40 PM

Bowl eligibility is not all it's cracked up to be.

If a team with a 9 game conferences schedule schedules 3 patsies non-conference, then it only needs 3 conference wins to be bowl eligible, IIUC.

That's true, as long as the "patsies" are all Division I teams (wins against I-AA teams or lower don't count).

Traditionally, Washington has played a tough non-conference schedule. This year, for example, they played Hawaii (12-0), Boise State (10-2), Ohio State (11-1), and Syracuse (2-10). The beat Boise State and Syracuse and lost the other two. However, they ended up 4-9 for the season and there is a lot of talk that they should decrease the difficulty of their NC foes. After all, being in a major conference with a good record goes a long way, with non-conference only factoring into it as a tie breaker.

Hanacker

12-03-2007, 06:11 PM

Hawaii was almost knocked off at home by Washington, the 9th place team in the Pac-10, last weekend. (If not for a bumbled would-be touchdown reception in the final seconds of the game, UW would have tied or won it.) Any team with a decent offense and defense would absolutely destroy Hawaii.

The first quarter was probably the worst they've had all season (3 fumbles recovered by Washington and a defense that couldn't stop the run). After that, they outscored them 35-7. As long as they come to play in all 4 quarters and don't start slow like they've had a tendency to do this year, it should be a good game.

Ryan A

12-03-2007, 06:25 PM

Also, Jake Locker single-handedly made Washington's offense a force to be reckoned with this year. The Huskies hung with USC and Oregon until late in those games, when the Trojans and Ducks were still at full power.

Tyjenks

12-03-2007, 06:30 PM

One thing that will help LSU is that Flynn, the starting quarterback, will return after missing the entire SEC championship game and Glenn Dorsey (possible #1 draft pick) will have time to recover back to 100% for, maybe, the first time since early in the season.

5 weeks off between games also causes fucking havoc with the schedules the players have been on throughout the season. They should start playing bowl games like next weekend.