October NPDs are here: Wii back on top

[rjcc]

from Gaf (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=208528) as usual

HW Results

Wii 519K
Nintendo DS 458K
Xbox 360 366K
PSP 286K
PlayStation 2 184K
PlayStation 3 121K

Top 10 SW
Rank # Units
360 HALO 3 * MICROSOFT (CORP) SEP 2007 MATURE (M) 1 433.8K
360 GUITAR HERO III: LEGENDS OF ROCK W/ GUITACTIVISION (CORP) OCT 2007 TEEN (T) 2 383.2K
WII GUITAR HERO III: LEGENDS OF ROCK W/ GUITACTIVISION (CORP) OCT 2007 TEEN (T) 3 286.3K
PS2 GUITAR HERO III: LEGENDS OF ROCK W/ GUITACTIVISION (CORP) OCT 2007 TEEN (T) 4 271.1K
NDS LEGEND OF ZELDA: PHANTOM HOURGLASS NINTENDO OF AMERICA SEP 2007 EVERYONE (E) 5 262.8K
WII PLAY W/ REMOTE NINTENDO OF AMERICA FEB 2007 EVERYONE (E) 6 239.7K
360 HALF LIFE 2: EPISODE 2 THE ORANGE BOX ELECTRONIC ARTS OCT 2007 MATURE (M) 7 238.4K
PS2 GUITAR HERO III: LEGENDS OF ROCK ACTIVISION (CORP) OCT 2007 TEEN (T) 8 231.7K
PS2 FIFA SOCCER 08 ELECTRONIC ARTS OCT 2007 EVERYONE (E) 9 129.7K
NDS BRAIN AGE 2: MORE TRAINING IN MINUTES A NINTENDO OF AMERICA AUG 2007 EVERYONE (E) 10 116.9K

Year-to-Date Top Title Fast Facts (combining platforms and skus)
Halo 3 3.7M
Madden NFL 08 3.2M
Guitar Hero 2 2.8M
Play W/ Remote 2.5M
Pokemon Diamond Version 2.1M
Pokemon Pearl Version 1.5M
Spider-Man 3 1.4M
Guitar Hero III: Legends Of Rock 1.4M

Super Category Totals
U.S. Video Games Sales - October 2007
October 2006 October 2007 YTD Oct 06 YTD Oct 07
Video Games $643.3M $1.1B 73% $7.0B $10.5B 49%
Video Games Hardware $207.1M $469.7M 127% $2.2B $4.1B 85%
Console Hardware $118.7M $349.6M 195% $1.4B $3.0B 125%
Portable Game Hardware $88.5M $120.1M 36% $877.5M $1.1B 23%
Video Games Software $369.3M $513.9M 39% $3.9B $5.0B 27%
Console Software $283.8M $412.5M 45% $2.9B $3.8B 28%
Portable Game Software $85.5M $101.5M 19% $983.1M $1.2B 23%
Video Game Accessories $67M $130M 94% $872.8M $1.4B 60%

[Charlatan]

So that's 500k unit sales of the PS2 Guitar Hero III (combining with and without guitar versions)?

That is crazy.

And I'm sure I don't have to point out no PS3 version on the list.

And only half of the Wii buyers bought Wii Play for the extra controller. Doh!

[forgeforsaken]

GH3 numbers are kind of interesting. A lot better on Wii than expected and 360 as the top is kind of a surprise, though PS2 if combined with/without guitar is the top seller in actuality. Also, no PS3 titles in top 10 including GH3 PS3 and Ratchet. So Ratchet didn't even break 116k, kind of sad.

[Dave Long]

Pokémon is still a fad. It's only the number two franchise for the year.

Far as I'm concerned, these numbers make it even clearer to me that Sony had a hand in NPD suddenly deciding to discontinue publishing hardware numbers. Fortunately that got reversed so people can fight over the real numbers instead of making them up and then fighting.

[Nathan Phoenix]

Impressive to see the Wii get so many GH3 sales. Also nice to see the Orange Box get some love! And frankly amazing to me that pokemon outsells Madden...

[Coca Cola Zero]

If I were a developer or publisher working on a PS3 exclusive I would be extremely worried.

If software sales don't bump up huge for the rest of this year I just don't see how developers and publishers are going to justify continued PS3 support, particularly when any developer who speaks on the subject states that the PS3 takes way more effort for about the same or slightly reduced results vs 360.


Good thing for Sony that the Playstation brand got so strong and so strongly tied to major franchises like MGS and FF, because without that the obituaries would already be written.

[Sarkus]

I realize that the Wii is profitable as hardware, but I still find it more than a little interesting that despite it's install base Wii software isn't doing better than it is.

I just think a large percentage of Wii buyers are happy with what they got out of the box and just don't buy much else.

[Gary Whitta]

GAF sums it up perfectly:


Wii:
http://www.perfect-despair.net/deadend/movies/14.gif



360:
http://www.prisonflicks.com/images/shawshankredemption_4.jpg



PS3:
http://www.slantmagazine.com/images/film/shawshankredemption.jpg

[Coca Cola Zero]

I realize that the Wii is profitable as hardware, but I still find it more than a little interesting that despite it's install base Wii software isn't doing better than it is.

I just think a large percentage of Wii buyers are happy with what they got out of the box and just don't buy much else.


Most Wii software frankly isn't worth buying. I'd be happier if Zack and Wiki did better but it is a pretty niche genre. GH3 did really well on the Wii. I suspect Super Mario Galaxy will unseat Halo 3 for #1 next month. Don't count Wii software buying out yet, just count Wii shovelware buying out (thankfully).

[forgeforsaken]

Yeah there's only one console right now that isn't moving software and that's the PS3.

[Rimbo]

At what point do we get to call the PS3 a colossal failure?

Edit: And Whitta, that's awesome

[Rimbo]

GH3 numbers are kind of interesting. A lot better on Wii than expected and 360 as the top is kind of a surprise, ...

Why?

Two words: Installed Base

[Coca Cola Zero]

Why?

Two words: Installed Base

I'm pretty sure that's his point? 360 beating PS2. (Though not entirely correct due to PS2 version split into 2 skus)

[Fugitive]

I'm pretty sure that's his point? 360 beating PS2. (Though not entirely correct due to PS2 version split into 2 skus)
Sneaky ninja edit! But yeah, it's hard to tell since the 360 guitar-less SKU isn't on the chart. Though even if you say that it did around 100k units, that puts the 360 and PS2 roughly equal at best.

[Gary Whitta]

At what point do we get to call the PS3 a colossal failure?

They still have the $399 pricepoint to kick in. They're claiming to have seen a large bump so far. I still don't know what would convince people to buy at that price given the current software line-up.

If next month's NPDs (the first to reflect the new last-ditch pricepoint) don't show a BIG uptick I think we can safely stick a fork in it.

Unrelated:

The much-heralded Ratchet & Clank: TOD sold 74K in its first two weeks on sale. BOMB. So now that's Lair, Heavenly Sword and R&C that have all failed on their promise to turn the PS3 game scene around... now only Uncharted remains.

PS3 was the only Guitar Hero III SKU not to make it into the Top 10. Has PS3 ever had a title in the top 10?

Sony PR has been busted for spinning their numbers by talking about "100,000 sales in a week" (which actually includes PS2 sales).

GRIM

[Midnight Son]

They still have the $399 pricepoint to kick in. They're claiming to have seen a large bump so far. I still don't know what would convince people to buy at that price given the current software line-up.


NO BC, no sale. Cheap rat-bastids..... grumble.......

[Coca Cola Zero]

If next month's NPDs (the first to reflect the new last-ditch pricepoint) don't show a BIG uptick I think we can safely stick a fork in it.

I'm sure PS3 hardware sales will have a big bump next month, but I think software is an even bigger concern for them. If software sales continue to be so dismal through the new year, 3rd party support is going to go from tepid to non-existent, at least outside of Japan.

[Shadarr]

I think the makers of GH3 are just as surprised about the Wii as the rest of us. I haven't seen a copy in stores yet, whereas the big stores have stacks of varying sizes for the PS2 and 360.

[gamadict]

I'll be really interested to see what happens to the PS3 in Japan when the next Final Fantasy comes out, though I have no idea when that is. That has to be one really expensive project, and if the PS3 doesn't get a large and sustained bump from that, things could get pretty ugly. In the past you'd take that for granted, but with how the handhelds are taking over there, I don't know...

[Gary Whitta]

I'll be really interested to see what happens to the PS3 in Japan when the next Final Fantasy comes out, though I have no idea when that is. That has to be one really expensive project, and if the PS3 doesn't get a large and sustained bump from that, things could get pretty ugly. In the past you'd take that for granted, but with how the handhelds are taking over there, I don't know...
The fate of the PS3 will already have been decided before the next FF comes out.

[Rimbo]

Wii purchasers don't buy their stuff in Game stores. They do it on amazon.

[gamadict]

Well, it's probably a lock to be in third place WW already. Stuff like Final Fantasy and MGS will determine if it's going to continue to be a viable platform, period

Checking Gamespot, the next FF has a release date of TBA. So, not too encouraging

[Ben Sones]

The next FF will be 2009 at the earliest, but possibly 2010.

[Funkula]

And frankly amazing to me that pokemon outsells Madden...
I was actually amazed that in the year-to-date numbers, Halo 3 is outselling both versions of this year's Pokemon combined.

[Dave Long]

Sony would be bucking history in a monumental way to ever come back from where they are now. It's not going to happen. PS3 is the third place console.

[Dave Long]

I was actually amazed that in the year-to-date numbers, Halo 3 is outselling both versions of this year's Pokemon combined.
Barely.

[nordhus]

Firingsquad (http://www.firingsquad.com/news/newsarticle.asp?searchid=18341) aslo has the top 20 PC games of the month:


1. Half Life 2: Episode 2 The Orange Box - Valve/EA
2. Hellgate: London - Namco/EA
3. Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask Of The Betrayer - Atari
4. World Of Warcraft - Blizzard
5. World Of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade - Blizzard
6. The Sims 2 Bon Voyage - Electronic Arts
7. Nancy Drew: Legend Of The Crystal Skull - Her Interactive
8. The Sim City 4 Deluxe - Electronic Arts
9. Hellgate: London Collector's Edition - Namco/EA
10. Paws & Claws Pet School - ValuSoft
11. Puppy/Kitty/Pony Luv Pack - Activision
12. World In Conflict - Sierra
13. World Of Warcraft: Battle Chest - Blizzard
14. Enemy Territory: Quake Wars - Activision
15. Age Of Empires III -Microsoft
16. Age Of Empires III: Asian Dynasties - Microsoft
17. The Sims 2 Deluxe - Electronic Arts
18. Halo: Combat Evolved - Microsoft
19. Sponge Bob Square Pants: Diner Dash - THQ
20. Company Of Heroes: Opposing Fronts - THQ

I just have to ask, what's Halo doing on this list?

[Dave Long]

The original Halo is $20 for PC and often found in the major retailers. No surprise it would still be selling well.

[Coca Cola Zero]

Sony would be bucking history in a monumental way to ever come back from where they are now. It's not going to happen. PS3 is the third place console.

Agree strongly. There is no upside to PS3 game development -- it is expensive and requires more effort to get the same results as the Xbox 360, a system that has more units sold and continues to outsell it consistently. The GH3 PS3 no-show in the top 10 is extremely damning, suggesting that even a token port to the platform might not be worth the effort even for a game that isn't tech-heavy. There is absolutely nothing that exists or will exist to break this chicken and egg problem for the PS3 with the possible exception of Bluray support but while that has certainly buoyed PS3's sales numbers, I think it was clearly just too soon for HD movie formats to really make any kind of difference, and the overwhemling cost of that gambit is really what sealed the PS3's current fate.

PS3 am fail.

[Dave Long]

Sony's biggest issue going forward is going to be the fact they just don't have the internal development studios of a Nintendo to support a console all by themselves. We're already seeing that with the lackluster sales of these big releases this fall. I don't see how they ever make this platform at all profitable.

[Rimbo]

Sony:
http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/fail.jpg

I have a coworker who believes strongly that somehow, against all odds, Sony will turn the corner. That someone out there will come up with that one magical thing that will make it the greatest thing ever.

And I think, "There, but for my former life as a 3dfx fanboy, go I."

So I can't really judge him too harshly. But I also know it's pointless to try to "correct" him.

Besides, who knows? He might be right.

[Gary Whitta]

Sony's biggest issue going forward is going to be the fact they just don't have the internal development studios of a Nintendo to support a console all by themselves. We're already seeing that with the lackluster sales of these big releases this fall. I don't see how they ever make this platform at all profitable.
Yup, historically it would be without precedent for a console to come back from a hole this deep. It's also unprecedented for a console maker to go from one generation of such massive success to last place. How they managed that is a cautionary tale of arrogance and incompetence that we'll no doubt be telling to our grandchildren.

I think at this point the only real hope for PS3 from Sony's point of view is as a loss-leader for Blu-ray.

Also - go go Dave! Two more posts to 10,000!

[mkozlows]

They still have the $399 pricepoint to kick in. They're claiming to have seen a large bump so far.

They're saying it's up to 100K per week, which -- if they can sustain that price-drop-fueled pace for a whole month, which is unlikely -- would put them at 400K/month for November. The 360 last year did 500K in November, and should do even better this year, what with the price drop and Halo and all the rest of those high-scoring games.

So EVEN IF Sony's bullshit hype numbers are true, and EVEN IF they can keep it up (which they can't), they're still doing worse than the 360 was doing at $399 a year after its release, and probably way worse than the 360 is doing now.

The time to say that the PS3 is doomed was six to nine months ago. It's over, and then some.

[Andrew Mayer]

The time to say that the PS3 is doomed was six to nine months ago. It's over, and then some.

Agreed. To get out of the position they got themselves into you'd need to do something radical and daring.

Their response was the corporate equivalent of covering your head with your arms and screaming "no! no! no!"

[Dave Long]

The time to say that the PS3 is doomed was six to nine months ago. It's over, and then some.
Some of us were saying it back then. ;)

[Ben Sones]

Yeah. At this point, Sony needs to be doing 200 per month more than Microsoft, minimum, just to have a shot at catching up to them before this generation is over. Sony has about as much chance of catching up to either of its competitors as my cat has of orchestrating a successful moon landing.

[Coca Cola Zero]

Some of us were saying it back then. ;)

Some of us were saying it as soon as Kaz said $599.

[Michael Fortson]

Yeah. At this point, Sony needs to be doing 200 per month more than Microsoft, minimum, just to have a shot at catching up to them before this generation is over.
Sony needs to consistently sell as much as Microsoft was the previous year (plus however many units they have missed that target by so far) in order to be one year behind in sales, and more than that to be moving into a range that is "less than a year behind".

I noticed that PS2 sales have finally fallen a lot.

[rjcc]

Sony needs to consistently sell as much as Microsoft was the previous year (plus however many units they have missed that target by so far) in order to be one year behind in sales, and more than that to be moving into a range that is "less than a year behind".

I noticed that PS2 sales have finally fallen a lot.

yeah, I just noticed that too. it took longer thna I expected. we are now current gen.

[Ex-S Woo]

The much-heralded Ratchet & Clank: TOD sold 74K in its first two weeks on sale. BOMB. So now that's Lair, Heavenly Sword and R&C that have all failed on their promise to turn the PS3 game scene around... now only Uncharted remains.

I saw some Japan numbers yesterday and it was pretty gloomy for Ratchet & Clank here as well...Week 1 sales of about 10k.

It's pretty odd, since even given its current install base you'd think that these games would have more legs...

[Gunmetal]

Although Lair and Heavenly Sword were supposed to be very good games, and Ratchet & Clank: TOD actually is. If people aren't buying it, that's a real shame.

[Nathan Phoenix]

Firingsquad (http://www.firingsquad.com/news/newsarticle.asp?searchid=18341) aslo has the top 20 PC games of the month:



I just have to ask, what's Halo doing on this list?

Being $30 cheaper than Halo 2, and compatable with XP. With all of the Halo 3 buzz there have to be a few Halo curious PC owners that took the path of least resistance.

[Midnight Son]

The PC list is almost total suckage. Seems I won't need to build myself a new one for awhile.....

[Greatatlantic]

I just have to ask, what's Halo doing on this list?

Basically, when a game shows potential to be a great seller, retailers will keep in stocked in large numbers years after the initial release. I imagine Halo 3 bumped interest in the franchise which gave Halo a bump on the PC, as there were certainly copies in stores to be had. Ditto with World of Warcraft, Age of Empires III, and the Sims. I'm just happy MotB is number three, hopefully that means more choice/consequence/character/story RPGs with less "action RPG". Oh wait, Hellgate was number two. NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

[Case]

The original Halo is $20 for PC and often found in the major retailers. No surprise it would still be selling well.

And it's arguable a better PC game than Halo 2 (PC).

[Gremlinclr]

At this point there really is nothing Sony can do. They are the Gamecube of this generation and they ain't turning it around. And like the GC it'll putter along and occasionally score a really good game or two and some will say it's under appreciated.

Then Sony will come out next gen with two PS3s duct taped together and a crazy ass controller and like Spring the cycle will begin anew.

[Dave Long]

And it's arguable a better PC game than Halo 2 (PC).
I haven't played H2 on PC, but the Halo PC version is very good. I had that out a few months ago and was really enjoying it both offline and online.

[MyNameIsWill]

Guitar Hero 3, for the win. The Wii sales are very surprising (especially since they seem to be in stock everywhere).

But yes, the PS3 is doing quite poorly. Last time around, we had the PS2 doing about 120 million units compared to the Xbox's 24 million and Gamecube's 21 million. This time around, we have the 360 and Wii at about 14 million and the PS3 trailing far behind less than 6 million. To be honest, I'm not sure that they could make up the difference at this point. They're d0med.

[Coca Cola Zero]

At this point there really is nothing Sony can do. They are the Gamecube of this generation and they ain't turning it around. And like the GC it'll putter along and occasionally score a really good game or two and some will say it's under appreciated.

Then Sony will come out next gen with two PS3s duct taped together and a crazy ass controller and like Spring the cycle will begin anew.


As disappointing as the Gamecube's sales were, it was still profitable for Nintendo. The PS3 is a huge money loser for Sony and at this rate seems likely to be an overall loser through its entire life cycle like the Xbox 1 was. If they were a pure game company like Nintendo they'd be done for, luckily their other divisions have been picking up the slack.

[jfletch]

From what I have read, Madden 2008's sales have been disappointing to EA - crazy that 3.2 million units before Thanksgiving is disappointing. I hate EA.

I also hate hardware sales discussions. Bleh.

edit: I know what I said (I guess I have hardware sales discussion stockholm syndrome) but according to Kotaku, for the week of 11/05-11/11 in Japan:

* Nintendo DS Lite - 78,854
* PSP - 58,964
* PlayStation 3 - 55,924
* Wii - 34,546
* PlayStation 2 - 9,043
* Xbox 360 - 5,817

Geesh. That was after Super Mario Galaxy's release too. Japan's videogame market started to diverge this decade but now its totally difference.

[Ex-S Woo]

Eh, at the same time all PS3 needs to do is to keep up the sales gap (or improve upon it) in Japan distant vs the 360 and ideally get close to the Wii sales to convince the Japanese developers to keep developing for it and they'll have the bigger software library by default.

The super big budget games might go multi-platform but I think the PS3 still has a good chance of keeping a lot of the developers for niche titles (Ie, Nippon Ichi's Disgaea 3)

[Marcus]

I'd like to to think that Disgaea has a better home on the PSP then the PS3 at this point.

[Jon Shafer]

Eh, at the same time all PS3 needs to do is to keep up the sales gap (or improve upon it) in Japan distant vs the 360 and ideally get close to the Wii sales to convince the Japanese developers to keep developing for it and they'll have the bigger software library by default.

The super big budget games might go multi-platform but I think the PS3 still has a good chance of keeping a lot of the developers for niche titles (Ie, Nippon Ichi's Disgaea 3)
Yeah, I think that's the real wild card here. The PS3 is obviously doing poorly when compared with the 360, but only in the US (and possibly Europe). There's still going to be a lot of momentum from Japan for the PS3 on the software side, even if things don't pick up over here.

This generation is full of all sorts of surprises. :) The Xbox edging out the Gamecube in total sales while doing much, much worse in Japan aside, there's never been the case where one console has done really well in one territory and really poorly in another (as the 360 seems to be doing). This also means that the PS3 will be the "high-end" system in Japan by default. For that reason alone I think it'll do okay there. What effect that has worldwide remains to be seen.

Jon

[RepoMan]

Sony has about as much chance of catching up to either of its competitors as my cat has of orchestrating a successful moon landing.
I dunno man, I've seen your cat doing orbital calculations and you've got one motherfucking smart cat.

[Warning]

Some of us were saying it as soon as Kaz said $599.
As much as we all made fun of Sony's 2006 E3 Presentation (as well we should - massive damage!) I really hoped it was a blip and not an Ominous Portent Of Things To Come.

It's pretty clear it wasn't a blip. They really had no clue when they were designing and marketing this thing.

[Ex-S Woo]

This generation is full of all sorts of surprises. :) The Xbox edging out the Gamecube in total sales while doing much, much worse in Japan aside, there's never been the case where one console has done really well in one territory and really poorly in another (as the 360 seems to be doing). This also means that the PS3 will be the "high-end" system in Japan by default. For that reason alone I think it'll do okay there. What effect that has worldwide remains to be seen.

The impact of Playstation Home will be very interesting too when it comes out next year.

The Japanese market traditionally shies away from these kinds of applications and in its current state (well, from what's publicially known at this time) I don't think it'll be the selling point that Sony is globally hoping for. Of course, given how Home is a SCEE/SCEA headed project I guess this shouldn't be a surprise.

[Desslock]

It's also unprecedented for a console maker to go from one generation of such massive success to last place.

Didn't Atari do the same thing with the 5200 getting crushed by the Colecovision (and fledging computer, like the C-64).

[Desslock]

I haven't played H2 on PC, but the Halo PC version is very good. I had that out a few months ago and was really enjoying it both offline and online.

I've actually played both in the past month -- Halo 1 on the PC really holds up well, it's very polished and Gearbox did a great job improving the visuals (although it was very system demanding when initially released, for what you got). Halo 2, not so much - agree with Case that Halo 1 is a much more polished product on the PC.

I still like them both though, and now I'm ready to play Halo 3, heh.

[Supersport]

As much as we all made fun of Sony's 2006 E3 Presentation (as well we should - massive damage!) I really hoped it was a blip and not an Ominous Portent Of Things To Come.

It's pretty clear it wasn't a blip. They really had no clue when they were designing and marketing this thing.

You have a link to that?

[rhinohelix]

It's both telling and sad when the best thing going for a console is it's movie play. I am on the cusp of buying a PS3 for a Blu-Ray player but can't think of a single game that moves me to buy it as a gaming machine.

Bundling Spiderman 3 my be their best play to keep these things moving for while but then again, that kind of sucked, too.

[Nathan Phoenix]

Didn't Atari do the same thing with the 5200 getting crushed by the Colecovision (and fledging computer, like the C-64).

I think Atari did that when Nintendo offered to let them sell the Famicom for them in the USA and they turned it down. However the 5200 is a good analogy, because as a kid I knew no one with a 5200, and lots of people with 2600s... and today I know no one (personally) with a PS3, but lots of people with PS2's.

[rjcc]

OUCH, - one ps3 fansites reactions to theres numbers: http://www.ps3blog.net/2007/11/15/october-npd-time/

[Andrew Mayer]

Although Lair and Heavenly Sword were supposed to be very good games, and Ratchet & Clank: TOD actually is. If people aren't buying it, that's a real shame.

But it's just another one in the series with slightly better graphics.

I don't think anyone actually feels that they're missing out by not playing it, and that's what it would take to sell boxes.

[Fugitive]

I'm honestly surprised by the Ratchet & Clank numbers as well. It was pretty popular on the PS2, it looks great on the PS3, got great reviews, so...WTF? Are the PS3 owner demographics even more skewed towards got-it-for-the-Blu-ray than we had even already suspected?

Edit: Or did Deadlocked's shift put too many people off the series? It was still pretty popular as of UYA, at least.

[Marcus]

Well I only own one PS3 game and don't plan on buying anymore.

[Nathan Phoenix]

I'd actually see the failure of such a bread and butter franchise on the PS3 making even more third party developers wonder if it's worth developing for the PS3 at all...

[Shadarr]

I'm honestly surprised by the Ratchet & Clank numbers as well. It was pretty popular on the PS2, it looks great on the PS3, got great reviews, so...WTF? Are the PS3 owner demographics even more skewed towards got-it-for-the-Blu-ray than we had even already suspected?
I think it's a result of PS3 owners not existing. If the same percentage of PS3 owners bought the new R&C as bought UYA on the PS2, the sales total would be about 10% of UYA. It was a popular franchise, but it's not a system seller.

[Warning]

You have a link to that?
Well there is the one minute version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJElsNaC6yQ

Or the slightly longer version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH2w2l1JTs4

[Cronox]

I think it's a result of PS3 owners not existing. If the same percentage of PS3 owners bought the new R&C as bought UYA on the PS2, the sales total would be about 10% of UYA.

That only applies if you assume that the PS2 and PS3 have sold to the same demographics. When UYA came out the PS2 was selling for a lot less than $400 and was selling to some very casual gamers, who aren’t really interested in this type of game. On the other hand given the pricing you would assume that PS3 is selling to fairly hardcore gamers, probably PS fans. The fact that they are unable to sell R&C to this audience does seem to indicate that a number of PS3 owners aren’t interested in “hardcore” gaming and may have purchased the system primarily as a BR player.

[dwinn]

I'm honestly surprised by the Ratchet & Clank numbers as well. It was pretty popular on the PS2, it looks great on the PS3, got great reviews, so...WTF? Are the PS3 owner demographics even more skewed towards got-it-for-the-Blu-ray than we had even already suspected?

Edit: Or did Deadlocked's shift put too many people off the series? It was still pretty popular as of UYA, at least.

It's the PS3 part that's at fault. I would have preordered R&CF if it was released for PS2. I'd of done the same if they'd ported the R&C PSP title to PS2, but I doubt that's ever going to happen.

[Rimbo]

Those Japan numbers are interesting.


It's also unprecedented for a console maker to go from one generation of such massive success to last place.

The Atari example's a good one. Nintendo fell pretty fast between the SNES and the GC, although that's two generations, not one.

It's unprecedented, but largely because of the unprecedented inability to learn from history Sony exhibited.

[Ben Sones]

Eh, at the same time all PS3 needs to do is to keep up the sales gap (or improve upon it) in Japan distant vs the 360 and ideally get close to the Wii sales to convince the Japanese developers to keep developing for it and they'll have the bigger software library by default.
But they have done nothing but get farther and farther from the Wii, since the Wii outsells the PS3 every month in Japan, by a lot. Look at it this way: it has taken the PS3 nearly a year just to pass the PS2's launch week sales. That's pretty abysmal, and even the most dedicated Sony-centric developers have to be nervous about that. Especially the ones who make niche games, because those games rely on having a large install base to find an audience. If I were a company like Nippon Ichi, I would be taking a long, hard look at Nintendo's numbers at this point.

And actually, all indicators are that they are doing exactly that. It's been confirmed that they are working on a DS game (their first non-Sony title, ever), and they have publically hinted that they may be developing for the Wii.

Sony has not attracted the largest software library for the past two generations because they are Sony. They've done it because they've been successful. Now they aren't.

[Ex-S Woo]

...at the same time the 360 in Japan only seems to appeal to the hardest of the hardcore crowd. While it's not doing as poor as game sites make it out to be (in fact, the 360 section has actually gotten bigger in most retail chains compared to last year), it's definitely a magnitude of success below the current PS3.

If the sales boost from the new version sticks and 3rd party games continue to languish on the Wii (like they have for every Nintendo home console since the N64), I think many smaller companies will eventually move to the PS3.

I do think that the majority of these games will make poor use of the PS3's true power and that they'll look like PS2.5 level games, but eh, most of the nichy games I like don't tend to be all that advanced technically anyway :P

Chunsoft's new visual novel game Imabikisou that just came out in Japan for the PS3 is the kind of game I'm interested in that will definitely never see a US release, and Disgaea 3's another. I gotta give credit to MS for their will to stick with the Japanese market but they have to do a better job than they are right now in order to really compete in Japan and convince the rest of the developers to go multi-platform.

As for the DS...I see that as a seperate market to the home consoles. Nintendo's 1st party line-up isn't as dominant and the install base is large enough for it to be a no-brainer to just about everyone. Home consoles though...I wouldn't count Sony out just yet. If it's still like this in early 2009 I'd be forced to reconsider though :|

[forgeforsaken]

I think Insomniac is the company to watch. If at some point they break from making only Sony games then you know it's over.

[Chris Nahr]

But they have done nothing but get farther and farther from the Wii, since the Wii outsells the PS3 every month in Japan, by a lot.

The Wii outsells the 360, too. That's not an immediate problem because the platform is much less capable and supports very different games. Games planned for the PS3 and/or 360 aren't going to be suddenly retargeted at the Wii, anymore than the DS or PSP. On the other hand, if the Wii keeps up its amazing sales figures it's going to be an issue for the entire industry, not just Sony -- see the Bill Harris column I quoted in another thread.

[Mike Cathcart]

"Lemme tell you what 'NPD Sales Numbers' is about. It's all about this console that's a regular sales machine. I'm talking morning, day, night, afternoon, Wii, Wii, Wii, Wii, Wii, Wii, Wii, Wii, Wii."

"How many Wiis is that?"

"A lot. "

[Coca Cola Zero]

The Wii outsells the 360, too. That's not an immediate problem because the platform is much less capable and supports very different games.

"different games" == the type of games that made the PS2 such a smashing success of a general audience machine with a large and diverse library. That's the problem for Sony, the Wii is the new PS2, the PS3 is the new Xbox 1.

It isn't so much that the Wii is massively outselling them as it is that they somehow convinced themselves that high technology is the answer, no matter how much that spikes up the price, despite the fact that their last-gen console ruled the industry with an iron fist while being the most underpowered system. So now they are left fighting in the hardcore-only niche with Microsoft who had a big headstart, now has a cheaper system with better 3rd party developrt support, better online, etc, etc.

Also Microsoft came into this generation with far more to gain, far less to lose. You have to look at relative success compared to last generation. Microsoft is up noticably. Sony is so far down from where they were you can barely measure it with human numbers.

[rjcc]

I think Insomniac is the company to watch. If at some point they break from making only Sony games then you know it's over.

I want to see the numbers for burnout paradise. Criterion seems to have gone out of thier way to make sure the PS3 gets the edge....will that be reflected in the sales? (no)

[Supersport]

Well there is the one minute version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJElsNaC6yQ

Or the slightly longer version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH2w2l1JTs4


Cool. Thanks for the links

[Jason Cross]

This generation is full of all sorts of surprises. :) The Xbox edging out the Gamecube in total sales while doing much, much worse in Japan aside, there's never been the case where one console has done really well in one territory and really poorly in another (as the 360 seems to be doing). This also means that the PS3 will be the "high-end" system in Japan by default. For that reason alone I think it'll do okay there. What effect that has worldwide remains to be seen.


Yeah, it'll do great in Japan long-term. But Japan can only contribute so many console sales. The potential market is just plain smaller than North America and Europe by virtue of the middle-class-or-better population alone.

If it was any prior generation, doing great in Japan would be enough. It would generate enough great games that it would drive sales throughout the world. But this generation is different. European devs and big US publishers are driving enormous sales. Japanese publishers like Konami and Capcom have wised up to the fact that they actually sell more of their big franchise games in the West, and are making business decisions accordingly. Hell, even Square's new big AAA RPG franchise is deliberately "half-western" by design (but they still have that girlish-looking-dude-hero Japanese RPG thing in there as well, just to be safe).

Doing great in Japan matters, but it's not the slam dunk it used to be.

Already hardware manufacturers are talking about this gen lasting more than 4-5 years before the next one comes out (they always say that early on, though). If the PS4 or Xbox 999 or whatever doesn't come out until 2011 or 2012, it might be that the current "big three" markets don't determine the overall console sales leader. There are 1.1 billion people in India, a country with an exploding middle class that has a penchant for technology. Success there could be huge. I mean, the 360 has sold to something like 3% of Americans so far. If that was India, that would be 33 million consoles right there.

Of course a lot needs to happen before a console can take off there. The middle class and disposable income needs to increase, the console prices need to come down, there needs to be software properly translated and culturally relevant titles (cricket and soccer, maybe a bollywood singing or dance game), and so on. That'll take years. But someone might strike it huge in India later this generation.

Then there's China. Man, you manage to crack that nut and it could be game over. You gotta get past the government's import restrictions and censors on content, and figure out how to get the console and TVs to be a big part of the Chinese game dens that are all PC right now. And figure out how to make the content freely distributed with hourly pay-to-play or micropayments for items. You do all that, and you get the really big money hats.

[Rimbo]

Oh, China already has a game market. It's thriving. They can get the consoles nice and cheap, because they were probably manufactured right down the street...

Of course, nobody in the West or Japan will see anything from those sales...

[dogbert]

Of course a lot needs to happen before a console can take off there. The middle class and disposable income needs to increase, the console prices need to come down, there needs to be software properly translated and culturally relevant titles (cricket and soccer, maybe a bollywood singing or dance game), and so on. That'll take years. But someone might strike it huge in India later this generation.

Sony just released SingStar Bollywood ;) Aimed at the Indian population in the UK of course, but I found it amusing.

[Jon Shafer]

Yeah, it'll do great in Japan long-term. But Japan can only contribute so many console sales. The potential market is just plain smaller than North America and Europe by virtue of the middle-class-or-better population alone.

If it was any prior generation, doing great in Japan would be enough. It would generate enough great games that it would drive sales throughout the world. But this generation is different. European devs and big US publishers are driving enormous sales. Japanese publishers like Konami and Capcom have wised up to the fact that they actually sell more of their big franchise games in the West, and are making business decisions accordingly. Hell, even Square's new big AAA RPG franchise is deliberately "half-western" by design (but they still have that girlish-looking-dude-hero Japanese RPG thing in there as well, just to be safe).

Doing great in Japan matters, but it's not the slam dunk it used to be. I don't think you could say it was ever all that mattered, because no console has ever done really well in one territory without doing the same everywhere else (again, small exception for Xbox aside, but it didn't exactly set sales records anywhere anyways). There's been good western games on all the really successful consoles as well. The enigma is that nothing western ever does well in Japan, which at least gives Sony a leg up on Microsoft.

The thing I think many people are ignoring is that the PS3 will do well in Japan, simply because there's clearly enough room in that market for 2 consoles to do well (particularly ones that are dissimilar, like the Wii and PS3), and the 360 isn't going to be one of them. The price is a big factor, but the price will go down eventually, both in Japan and the rest of the world. Japanese games aren't going to save the PS3 by any stretch of the imagination, but I think it's feasible that the PS3 ends up doing better than the 360 worldwide in the long run. I'm still skeptical about the Wii's long-term dominance, but it seems clear at this point it's going to be the #1 console for at least the next couple years.


Already hardware manufacturers are talking about this gen lasting more than 4-5 years before the next one comes out (they always say that early on, though). If the PS4 or Xbox 999 or whatever doesn't come out until 2011 or 2012, it might be that the current "big three" markets don't determine the overall console sales leader. There are 1.1 billion people in India, a country with an exploding middle class that has a penchant for technology. Success there could be huge. I mean, the 360 has sold to something like 3% of Americans so far. If that was India, that would be 33 million consoles right there.

Of course a lot needs to happen before a console can take off there. The middle class and disposable income needs to increase, the console prices need to come down, there needs to be software properly translated and culturally relevant titles (cricket and soccer, maybe a bollywood singing or dance game), and so on. That'll take years. But someone might strike it huge in India later this generation.

Then there's China. Man, you manage to crack that nut and it could be game over. You gotta get past the government's import restrictions and censors on content, and figure out how to get the console and TVs to be a big part of the Chinese game dens that are all PC right now. And figure out how to make the content freely distributed with hourly pay-to-play or micropayments for items. You do all that, and you get the really big money hats. I'd be very, very surprised to see India or China factor in at all in this generation. Maybe the next one, but those markets simply aren't ready to make a big dent in the worldwide picture in the near future.

Jon

[Prodigy]

At what point do we get to call the PS3 a colossal failure?


When it really is ?

Your seem to forget that the 360 is non existent in Japan and that the PS3 finally topped the PS2 there. In Europe, the PS3 sells relatively well. For example Sony claims 100.000 PS3 have found their buyer in France in one month, due to the recent price cut and new SKUs (as always there's a debate regarding those figures, are the consoles shipped or really sold). Except in UK, where I think it does well, the 360 is also pretty much non existent here.

To sum up : Wii & DS dominate everywhere, 360 does great in the US but that's pretty much it (anyone but me smells a Dreamcast situation here ?), so the fate of the PS3 is really not a grim as it looks.

[Brakara]

Your seem to forget that the 360 is non existent in Japan and that the PS3 finally topped the PS2 there.

What? The PS3 has sold better than the PS2 for quite a while there. However, in the first year it has sold about as many as PS2 sold in its first month. How anyone can say the PS3 is not a failure in Japan (so far) is quite baffling. Now, if it can sustain its current sales figures there then it's promising, but as of now there's no way to tell if that's actually going to happen (first week of price cuts always have a large percentage increase in sales).

And did you you just compare the 360 to Dreamcast? /insert lol smiley

It's going to outsell the PS3 by about 500-750k units in the US alone this Holiday, which should be more than enough to sustain (and even improve) the worldwide gap between these two consoles. Actually, one year in the gap is even bigger than before the PS3 launched. If anyone had predicted that a year ago, they would have been called lunatics. So Dreamcast it's not.

Of course, saying that the PS3 is a colossol failure is a bit misleading. Tracking currently at Gamecube sales level it's not that bad. But compared to the PS2 it certainly is.

[Coca Cola Zero]

The PS3 is absolutely a failure in that it failed miserably to maintain or grow Sony's previous dominance in the console industry. How can you classify their fall from being not just #1, but the 8 THOUSAND pound gorilla of the console industry to being #3 as anything but abject failure? It is kind of staggering to even think about what has happened to them. If you told the 2005 me that Sony would be in 3 place behind the "Xbox 2" and Kutaragi would be pushed out and all of the crazy stuff that has happened I'd have just laughed because of how ridiculous you sounded.

[Prodigy]

How anyone can say the PS3 is not a failure in Japan (so far) is quite baffling.

I never said it did well, but that it did ok. Compared to the pathetic score of the 360, it's a no brainer.


And did you you just compare the 360 to Dreamcast? /insert lol smiley

Yes I did, and I'd do it again. A great console with great games that did well in the US, not that well outside the US. The PS3 may well be a failure here, but the things do not look so desperate for Sony elsewhere.

[Hans Lauring]

Yes I did, and I'd do it again. A great console with great games that did well in the US, not that well outside the US. The PS3 may well be a failure here, but the things do not look so desperate for Sony elsewhere.

You French must be the odd country out then.
While the PS3 does much better in (western) Europe than in the US, there's no reason to claim it's selling better than the Xbox 360.

We don't have numbers like NPD for all of Europe but apart for Sony own claims and apparent better sales in France (and to an extent the UK) it's still Xbox 360 > Wii > PS3 here.

[Brakara]

Yes I did, and I'd do it again. A great console with great games that did well in the US, not that well outside the US.

Yeah, I guess. If you totally ignore actual sales figures. After this Holiday, the 360 will already have doubled the DC sales in the US. My point being that although it sold better in the US than in other regions, it didn't do anything like "well" there. There's a reason it was discontinued after 16 months in the US marketplace.

[Prodigy]

You French must be the odd country out then.

True, we have a knack for the PlayStation brand.

[E-phonk]

Yes I did, and I'd do it again. A great console with great games that did well in the US, not that well outside the US. The PS3 may well be a failure here, but the things do not look so desperate for Sony elsewhere.

360<>Dreamcast comparisons are still useless though. Sega didn't have the financial power to keep it's platform alive, lacked EA support, didn't get the fantastic attach ratio the x360 enjoys, etc...

While it's difficulty to get a good view on the EU "current gen consoles" market shares, something like 40% wii, 35% 360, 25% PS3 respecting a big possible error margin seems like a possible (gu)estimate.

We know Wii > 360 since this summer, and we can assume PS3 hasn't catched up to 360 although it had a more succesfull launch compared to the US. Sony would've issued a press release if it passed x360 in Europe, and while 360 isn't the same succes as in the US - it's numbers are still respectable in some of the major markets like the UK.

[Wheelkick]

We don't have numbers like NPD for all of Europe but apart for Sony own claims and apparent better sales in France (and to an extent the UK) it's still Xbox 360 > Wii > PS3 here.

Since we non americans get to argue numbers, here are the numbers for Sweden!
What still amazes me somewhat is that PC games still tops the charts over here, look:

Platform / Units / Revenue (SEK)
(software titles sold during January-June 2007)
PC / 1 319 165 / 227 619 366 kr
Playstation 2 / 530 819 / 196 274 461 kr
Xbox 360 / 146 273 / 66 815 836 kr
Nintendo DS / 173 103 / 61 638 155 kr
Playstation 3 / 93 041 / 58 176 438 kr
Wii / 82 485 / 44 607 273 kr
PSP / 76 113 / 16 514 026 kr
Game Boy Adv. / 50 018 / 12 761 443 kr
Xbox / 50 507 / 5 903 882 kr
Gamecube / 9 695 / 1 204 891 kr

Total / 2 531 219 / 691 515 771 kr

(source: http://www.dataspelsbranschen.se/items/stats/DSB-statistik-halvår%202007.pdf).

Best selling game (all formats) two weeks ago (11/5-11/11), when CoD 4 was released:
01 - Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (PC)
02 - The Sims 2 Tonårsprylar (PC)
03 - Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (360)
04 - Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (PS3)
05 - Singstar Svenska hits Schlager (PS2)
06 - Hellgate: London (PC)
07 - World of Warcraft (PC)
08 - Football Manager 2008 (PC)
09 - World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade (PC)
10 - Metroid Prime 3 Corruption (Wii)

(source: http://www.dataspelsbranschen.se/listing.aspx)


(don't know how to get the tabs in the actual post. Looks fine when I edit it but the actual post looks, well, like the above...)
And my numbers are for software only

[Ex-S Woo]

That sounds about right.

The US alone is almost 50% of the world console/handheld market, isn't it? (I'm excluding PC games here).

[Prodigy]

What ? More PC, PS2, Xbox 360, DS and PS3 sold in Sweden than Wiis ? This is a strange country...

[JD]

Some older stats stats for Germany, published in August:

Hardware (http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/94540) (accumulated sales since launch)

Wii: 291,000
Xbox 360: 281,000
PS3: 99,500

Also, Q3 software sales (http://www.media-control.de/pressemitteilungen/uber-40-prozent-umsatzsteigerung-bei-konsolenspielen.html) (market share) - PC excluded, PSP not mentioned

NDS: 35.9 percent
PS3: 32.2
Wii: 6.8
Xbox 360: 6.2
PS3: 3.8

French Q1 sales (http://xbox-mag.net/ventes-de-consoles-en-france---nintendo-domine--microsoft-peine__13097.html) (keep in mind that the PS3 got released on March 23rd in Europe)

1. DS: 260,000
2. Wii: 144,000
3. PS2: 92,000
4. PSP: 90,000
5. PS3: 81,000
6. Xbox 360: 43,000

-Julian

[forgeforsaken]

A bunch of people have been trying to equate the 360 to the Dreamcast for a while, but it just isn't so. The 360 is doing way stronger than the Dreamcast ever did, has way better 3rd party support, and the software sales on it are fantastic. All the Sony fanboys hoping for a PS2/Dreamcast like situation with 360/PS3 are dreaming.

[Wheelkick]

What ? More PC, PS2, Xbox 360, DS and PS3 sold in Sweden than Wiis ? This is a strange country...

I was a bit unclear in my post, but the lists are for software only.
And PC rules the day, which is somewhat surprising (this being sweden, home of the Pirate bay and everything).

[Chris Nahr]

The battle of 360 vs PS3 might not end quite as badly for Microsoft as Xbox vs PS2, concedes Sega's Noah Musler (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=30730).

Yes, you read that right.


But all of our projections... I think that most analysts would agree that PS3 is going to catch up to the 360, if not surpass it, as more and more big titles come out.

Microsoft has done a good job of closing the gap between the platforms. I don't think they are in the situation they were in with the PS2 and Xbox 1, but it is still too soon to say.

But will the 360 survive Sony's daring move of halfing the price (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=30736) of their development kits?? (Interestingly, dev kit pricing correctly reflects the USD/EUR exchange rates, unlike the price of the console itself.)

[Prodigy]

All the Sony fanboys hoping for a PS2/Dreamcast like situation with 360/PS3 are dreaming.

As far as I'm concerned I've never owned a PS3 or even a PS2, since I'm not interested in the least in the PlayStation game franchises (MGS, FF and the like). I'm just saying, it's one thing to look a the 360 situation from inside the US with those shiny numbers, and another thing to bring Japan and Europe into the equation.

As for the DC comparison, I was in no way trying to say the situations are exactly alike, or that the 360 will die.

[Warning]

A bunch of people have been trying to equate the 360 to the Dreamcast for a while, but it just isn't so. The 360 is doing way stronger than the Dreamcast ever did, has way better 3rd party support, and the software sales on it are fantastic. All the Sony fanboys hoping for a PS2/Dreamcast like situation with 360/PS3 are dreaming.
But both the 360 and the DC were white!

[Chris Nahr]

Despite the fervent wishes of the Qt3 Collective, the PS3 outsold the Wii in Japan (http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=8047&Itemid=2) for another week (and the 360 by a factor of ten).

Elsewhere, the Wiimania continues unabashed: London retailer (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=30875) sells out entire new delivery in 34 minutes, Wii quickest console to reach 200k units in Australia (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6183318.html). Will the madness never end?

[Anders Hallin]

Christoph, I'd be all snarky and say that we're not blind PS3-haters here, but then I realised that I DO want the PS3 to fail in Japan. Or rather, I want the 360 to do well, because I intend to get one, and I want some more variation in the games for it.

[The Mad Hatter]

I’ve been out of the console market for past couple of years, but I occasionally toy with getting back into it if I could somehow sell the idea on the home front. If I did now, it would have to be a 360. I have zero interest in the Wii, since it’s not my style of gaming at all, and looking at the games released this past year I see no reason to pay for a PS3 even though its price is now similar to a 360. They’ve failed on the gaming front where it really matters. I could care less about the neato tech behind the system, since it’s irrelevant in and of itself. Sony’s chance at turning it around depend entirely on what comes out for the PS3 in the next year. If they pull off some nice exclusives, people like me might give them another look now that their hardware pricing is less outrageous. Otherwise, forget it.

[forgeforsaken]

Despite the fervent wishes of the Qt3 Collective, the PS3 outsold the Wii in Japan (http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=8047&Itemid=2) for another week

Only 50 more to go!

Any reason for the uptick over there? Price drop or some new game?

[Ex-S Woo]

Well, Heavenly Sword just came out in Japan, but I think the real reason is the price drop and the new colors. Sony's finally picking up some momentum in Japan I think, with the PSP revamp and the price drops...and it looks like the 360's doing decently too.

I think the fact that neither the new Resident Evil game nor Super Mario Galaxy has caused big bumps in sales for the Wii in Japan (actually, I don't remember any mainstream buzz about Mario Galaxy at all) is a sign that the people here just aren't interested in traditional games for the Wii...I guess the next big thing is Wii Fit. :|

...and the funny thing is about the 360 is that it's probably the only system that's doing better this year than last year. I recall that last year the 360 average about 6k-7k units a month but it it looks like we're closer to 15k now and with Lost Odyssey coming out in 2 weeks maybe it can finish the year on a high note.

[JD]

Latest German sales stats, FIY (http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/99497):

Overall sales by end of October '07:

Wii: 389,000
XB360: 328,000
PS3: 179,000

October sales:

PS3: 37,000
Wii: 28,000
XB360: 12,000

(PS3 price drop and 40GB SKU were introduced in early Oct. over here.)

-Julian

[Chris Nahr]

Those sales figures are really pathetic for an 80 million country. I wished the games publishers would recognize this fact and just stop making German versions of their games, so I'd no longer have to import them from Britain. :)

[Quitch]

I remember when the launch dates were announced and there was a whole lot of "it doesn't matter that the 360 is coming out first" posts. Yet I suspect that when we look back, it will be the 360 coming out first which allowed it to conquer the PS3. The PS2 beat the X-Box out, so while it was a pain in the ass to develop for, by the time Microsoft's offering (and relatively unknown one at that) was out, it didn't matter because people had already gone through the pain.

This time they didn't need to. The systems were roughly equal in power, but one was a million times easier to develop for, and what's more it was first out. Why would you care about the system which is pure pain incarnate and has a smaller install base AND, owing to price, isn't likely to be seeing rapid growth?

I just can't believe the cries of doom weren't louder, and much earlier.

I ignore the Wii because I don't think it's competing in the same space. If we had attach rate figures I bet they'd support this theory.

[Coca Cola Zero]

I remember when the launch dates were announced and there was a whole lot of "it doesn't matter that the 360 is coming out first" posts. Yet I suspect that when we look back, it will be the 360 coming out first which allowed it to conquer the PS3.

IMO the PS3's starting price of $600 was more important than the headstart. The price announcement had a lot of impact, not just in terms of consumers writing it off at that price, but lots of developers and publishers writing off the idea of any PS3 exclusives because they knew the consumers would be writing the system off at that price.

Of course we'll never know for SURE, but my gut tells me a PS3 released at the same price as the Xbox 360 would at least be even with and probably would have surpassed the 360's sales worldwide by now. The brand was *that* strong and the Wii is the only console this gen that has sold the sorts of numbers that really solidify its position anyway. The 360 only seems like a huge success relative to the Xbox 1 and PS3's sales, it really needs to come down in price more and expand the game genres it covers to solidfy its spot as #2.

[Quitch]

I don't think brand is all that big an issue. Nintendo fell despite being an enormous name, and Sony triumphed despite Playstation being an unknown. We have constantly seen things occur which are the exact opposite of what brand loyalty should dictate.

[Coca Cola Zero]

I think brand is way more important than it used to be because gaming is far more mainstream. I know lots of people who are console gamers only who were waiting for the PS3 simply because it was a Playstation, sort of like miniature and less annoying versions of that shithead PS-Triple guy Chad Whateverthefuck.

Obviously the PS3's sales show that brand isn't the end-all-be-all, it can still be shot to shit by giant crab sized amounts of hubris, but I don't think past console generations are really a good comparison because the game industry landscape is so much different than it used to be.

[Cossix]

I still don't think it's too late for the PS3. I mean it's probably fucked against the Wii or whatever, but I don't even think Microsoft or Sony is even trying to compete with Nintendo for that at this point. Nintendo has some sort of retarded hype machine built up that will sell those things to quadriplegics, probably. Microsoft's inability to get any real foothold in Japan is probably going to be a huge limiting factor eventually.

[Quitch]

Why? It's obvious from the numbers that Japan is not swinging this generation, either through customers OR developers.

[Ex-S Woo]

The PS3 is still getting a lot of exclusives from traditional sony supporters...it's just that they're mostly titles that won't be seen outside of Japan.

You only need a couple of those to be a hit and translated for international purchase and suddenly the PS3 can look like a viable alternative for gamers with more eclectic tastes than what is offered by the 360...and it has the added plus of it being an exclusive PS3 title by default (since most smaller developers won't touch the 360 with a 3 meter pole and Nintendo's too big of a threat on the Wii)

[mok]

Anyone have any stats on multi-console households? How many own all three or two flavors?

[Desslock]

Those sales figures are really pathetic for an 80 million country.

Is that because PC games are bigger in Germany?

[Chris Nahr]

Yeah, we saw that with Bioshock where the PC version outsold the 360 version. The decline of PC gaming has apparently stopped and turned around a few years ago, since people didn't migrate to the Xbox/360 as they did in America. Now the PC games section at the local electronics store is about as big as all console sections combined.

[Jon Shafer]

Well it's nice that PC games do well somewhere, because around here the stores have a small rack in the middle of the store half the size of the original XBox game section for PC games, with all the walls lined with console games. There's at least 20x as much space for console games as PC games. :(

Jon

[Dave Long]

Well it's nice that PC games do well somewhere, because around here the stores have a small rack in the middle of the store half the size of the original XBox game section for PC games, with all the walls lined with console games. There's at least 20x as much space for console games as PC games. :(

Jon
You're going to the wrong store. Stop patronizing GameStop/EB and go to Target. You'll find an entire wall of PC games. Even Best Buy has a larger section and selection at better prices than GameStop. Same goes for Circuit City.

I just don't go to the specialty retailer for games anymore. They don't cater to me. They cater to the pre-order happy crowd.

[Chris Nahr]

Speaking of the wild & wacky world of European game sales, GamesIndustry (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=30972) just posted the German and Spanish charts for the last week.

Tellingly, Germany has four PC titles in the Top Ten, including Crysis at #1; the PC and PS3 versions of CoD4 appear in both charts, but the 360 version in neither; and the PS3 version of Assassin's Creed placed ahead of the 360 version in both countries.

Looks like the price-dropped PS3 was quite successful in Europe, though I still haven't seen any hardware sales figures.

[Prodigy]

Europe loves Sony.

[mkozlows]

Speaking of the wild & wacky world of European game sales, GamesIndustry (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=30972) just posted the German and Spanish charts for the last week.

Tellingly, Germany has four PC titles in the Top Ten, including Crysis at #1; the PC and PS3 versions of CoD4 appear in both charts, but the 360 version in neither; and the PS3 version of Assassin's Creed placed ahead of the 360 version in both countries.

Looks like the price-dropped PS3 was quite successful in Europe, though I still haven't seen any hardware sales figures.

But seriously, who cares? The German life-to-date sales of all the consoles are around 300K. Selling well in Germany for two years is the equivalent of a solid October in the US, you know?

[JD]

But seriously, who cares? The German life-to-date sales of all the consoles are around 300K. Selling well in Germany for two years is the equivalent of a solid October in the US, you know?
And still, while North-America traditionally happened to be the biggest market, doing well in Europe isn't nothing to be ignored either. The DS is selling better over here, and Sony has shipped about the same amount of PS2s in both territories - about 50 million. Roughly 2/3 of all Xbox units sold were sold in North-America. And so far it's pretty much the same for the 360.

-Julian

[JD]

FYI, LTD sales in France (http://www.jeux-france.com/news23083_500000-xbox-360-vendues-en-france.html):

Wii - 1.1m
XB360 - 500k
PS3 - 270k

-Julian

[Chris Nahr]

These figures sound incredible. According to the numbers I've dug up earlier the Wii would have sold 896,000 units during the five months of July to November.

[Dave Long]

At poker last night, a whole bunch of guys were talking about trying to find a Wii in the next few weeks before Christmas. Notably, one of them only has one arm, so for him the Wii was the only option. It allows him to participate where he couldn't before.

Anyway, there was never any mention by anyone, even those with two arms, about buying something else instead. And no, I didn't bring up the Wii in the first place.

[Marcus]

You know what they say about one armed poker players right?

[Dave Long]

You know what they say about one armed poker players right?
Heh... yeah, he doesn't win very often. :)