Bill Maher vs 9/11 Truthers

[Jonathan Blow]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFmqZVUG7Mw&eurl=rackjite.com/archives/786-Bill-Maher-Gives-his-Audience-an-Ass-Kicking!.html

[Anti-Bunny]

THis is probably because he had Mos Def on from the 9/11 troot movement on (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRetQUTEWA).

"Mos, you know, there are people who want to kill us..."
"Yeah, just like the POLICE! (Also, we didn't walk on the moon!)"

[NoWayJose]

I think it's because a few weeks ago he made a point of asking the 9/11 truthers to stop emailing him and get a life.

[bloo]

Ordinarily, I'd think that was posturing on the host's part. But Billy looks like he might have spent a life dealing with drunks in night clubs and isn't afraid to get in somebody's business.

I bet he can't take Jon Lovitz and Andy Dick.

[Anti-Bunny]

The trooters respond (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoJJIYWMZlY).

Ooh, canned laughter. Maher is so burned.

[Jeff Green]

Wow, these guys are lunatics.

I mean, I'm right with the JFK conspiracy stuff, but this? Yeesh.

[Soapyfrog]

I mean, I'm right with the JFK conspiracy stuff, but this? Yeesh.
Hehe... sure because the JFK conspiracy stuff is SO RATIONAL :P

[Anti-Bunny]

I mean, I'm right with the JFK conspiracy stuff, but this? Yeesh.

Yeah, totally. Elvis killed JFK.

[Machfive]

Hehe... sure because the JFK conspiracy stuff is SO RATIONAL :P

I'd believe a conspiracy theory about the JFK assassination is more rational than that crazy magic bullet theory. What a crock.

[triggercut]

I'd believe a conspiracy theory about the JFK assassination is more rational than that crazy magic bullet theory. What a crock.

You probably want to do some reading on recent findings about that bullet (as well as other evidence)....because more and more it appears as if the Warren Commission actually got it right. (I used to be a die-hard JFK conspiracy believer, too; most of the questions have been answered, and most of the myths debunked.)

[jfletch]

I believe Alexander Cockburn has it right about the 9/11 conspiracy movement: http://www.counterpunch.org/cockburn11282006.html

[Machfive]

You probably want to do some reading on recent findings about that bullet (as well as other evidence)....because more and more it appears as if the Warren Commission actually got it right. (I used to be a die-hard JFK conspiracy believer, too; most of the questions have been answered, and most of the myths debunked.)

I was under the impression that the metallurgical results were inconclusive, and didn't rule out the possibility of multiple shooters.

http://www.ktvu.com/news/9709821/detail.html

Also, wtf is going on with the dictaphone digitization? I haven't heard anything new about that since 2004.

[forgeforsaken]

I believe Alexander Cockburn has it right about the 9/11 conspiracy movement: http://www.counterpunch.org/cockburn11282006.html

I know more than a few 9/11 conspiracy folks that aren't on the left.

[Anti-Bunny]

I know more than a few 9/11 conspiracy folks that aren't on the left.
From the story:
Five years after the attacks, 9/11 conspiracism has now penetrated deep into the American left. It is also widespread on the libertarian and populist right, but that is scarcely surprising, since the American populist right instinctively mistrusts government to a far greater degree than the left, and matches conspiracies to its demon of preference, whether the Internal Revenue Service, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, Black Helicopters or the Jews.
Ron Paul movement and the trooters intersect quite a bit.

[Machfive]

Thankfully, Ron Paul isn't so batshit insane as to believe the trooters.

He's pretty crazy, but not THAT crazy.

[jabroni]

The whole 9/11 Truth movement is nice in that it allows you to quickly and easily identify retards you don't need to talk to anymore.

[Jeff Green]

You probably want to do some reading on recent findings about that bullet (as well as other evidence)....because more and more it appears as if the Warren Commission actually got it right. (I used to be a die-hard JFK conspiracy believer, too; most of the questions have been answered, and most of the myths debunked.)

Trigger--do you have links to this stuff?

[Anti-Bunny]

The whole 9/11 Truth movement is nice in that it allows you to quickly and easily identify retards you don't need to talk to anymore.
I'd believe a conspiracy theory about the 9/11 is more rational than that crazy single plane theory (http://www.theonion.com/content/news/new_oliver_stone_9_11_film). What a crock. RON PAUL.

[extarbags]

The trooters respond (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoJJIYWMZlY).

Ooh, canned laughter. Maher is so burned.

Oh my god, that is too pathetic for words.

[Brad Grenz]

The trooters respond (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoJJIYWMZlY).

Ooh, canned laughter. Maher is so burned.

This is so damn funny. I love the way these people always demand that others "do the research". Yeah, we should all do the research so we can completely misunderstand what we're reading, just like them!

[Rasputin]

Matrix reference = PWNED!

[mystery]

I spend too much time in places like Qt3. I often wonder where these people are hanging out. Just looking at the Youtube comments and the "response videos", I really don't have to ponder this any more.

What a quagmire of idiocy is Youtube. It's the Real World of the internet.

[Anti-Bunny]

15 minutes can save you 15 years of war and a concentration camp(???) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPhAiEkO7NE)
bringing the truth to the sheepole at Walmart (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4yKEK9o8gA)

[Adree]

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g24/bouwerieboy/catInTinfoil.jpg

[Calistas]

The whole 9/11 Truth movement is nice in that it allows you to quickly and easily identify retards you don't need to talk to anymore.

A forking MEN!

[Soapyfrog]

You probably want to do some reading on recent findings about that bullet (as well as other evidence)....because more and more it appears as if the Warren Commission actually got it right. (I used to be a die-hard JFK conspiracy believer, too; most of the questions have been answered, and most of the myths debunked.)
Agreed, the magic bullet thing is bullcrap, the bullet went in pretty much a straight line as has been well demonstrated by now.

The conspiracy theorists typically misrepresent Kennedy's position and posture in the car to make it look like the bullet's trajectory is impossible.

And don't get me started on the whole "back and to the left" thing.

Weirdly, wikipedia actually has a good entry on this subject: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_bullet_theory

[WarrenM]

The trooters respond.

Ooh, canned laughter. Maher is so burned.
Holy shit. I don't even have words for that kind of crazy.

[Guido Jones]

Trigger--do you have links to this stuff?

We've had discussions on this a few times. I think the latest one is here:

http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=17993

[Rogen]

Well the fact is, we DO need more investigations and more introspection about what happened on Sept. 11, 2001. No one can deny that the government has been very quick to sweep everything under the carpet and suppress independent inquiry into what happened (Bush actually initially appointed Henry Kissinger to lead official inquiry, for starters).

Even setting conspiracy theories aside, it's too important an event just from a historical standpoint to be so casually brushed aside for political reasons. There is more information that needs to be brought into the open.

That said, disrupting TV shows and being obnoxious just makes you a shithead, whether you have a valid point or not. If that's the best way you can think of to have your voice heard, then you aren't trying very hard.

[Brad Grenz]

No one's brushing aside inquiry. That's the first problem with the Truthers. They seem to have deluded themselves into thinking no one has looked into or investigated 9/11 but them for the last 6 years.

What is being brushed aside is ludicrous arguments made by irrationally emotional people based on specious, fabricated or simply misunderstood evidence. And they should be brushed aside. Because they're acting retarded.

[Calistas]

I've got the graphic novel version of the 9/11 commission report, pretty big graphic novel, I understand the real deal was even bigger ;)

'Troothers' never seem to read it, or consider that it's 900 pages are incomplete.

Of course, it will never be complete enough. Every question will never be answered. Therefore, BUSH DID IT!!1!!

[NoWayJose]

I'm depressed by how the girl in the truther's response video was kinda cute. What happened?

[bigdruid]

Well the fact is, we DO need more investigations and more introspection about what happened on Sept. 11, 2001.
Do we? Really? Because it sure feels like 5 years spent navel gazing about 9/11 is enough.

For chrissake, what new insights and revelations are we hoping for here? Are you dismayed because the Saddam Hussein-Al Qaeda link hasn't been unearthed yet?

[Anti-Bunny]

Are you dismayed because the Saddam Hussein-Al Qaeda link hasn't been unearthed yet?
Actually, trooters typically don't think Saddam was involved, and Bin Laden was a patsy for the CIA.... JUST LIKE OSWALD!!!!!111

[Rogen]

Do we? Really?

Yes, we do.

There are questions that haven't been answered, and people in power have been acting in ways that they have not been called on to account for. And when people ask questions they are attacked and insulted.

Kind of like what you did.

Maybe you want an example of a question that isn't being asked and should be. I'll repeat the one I mentioned earlier. What possible reason could Bush have had to choose Henry Kissinger to come out of retirement to lead the official inquiry? If not for a cover-up, then what reason?

Surely you agree that whatever the truth is and however benign his reasoning was, the answer to that question would be pretty interesting, and it's something we should know. But nobody's asking it, and unless we start asking now we'll never know.

As for the 911 Commission Report, even if there were no inaccuracies and omissions in it at all, your position would still be: "There's a report! So stop asking about it! We have a report!"

You must see why that's irrational. If the report is perfect, then inquiry about it should be welcome. If it's incomplete or incorrect in places, then inquiry should be all the more welcome. Questioning doesn't end as soon as an official report comes out.

It has nothing to do with navel-gazing. It's about being a free and open society that doesn't suppress inquiry and investigation.

[Rogen]

Personally, I do not believe that 9/11 was an "inside job" and I would not be surprised in the least if the official version turns out to be 100% correct. It's the supression, downplaying, dodging and distracting that bothers me. And that's what I'm arguing against. This is not like the moon landing or even JFK. This is a recent event that has been handled very oddly and was even used to drum up popular support for a war. On top of that, there are still unanswered questions. It's inexusable to attack someone just for asking them.

Screaming at the stage from the audience of a TV show, however, is something that defintely does qualify you as a shithead who can be attacked.

[Troy S Goodfellow]

Maybe you want an example of a question that isn't being asked and should be. I'll repeat the one I mentioned earlier. What possible reason could Bush have had to choose Henry Kissinger to come out of retirement to lead the official inquiry? If not for a cover-up, then what reason?

Prestige and the hope that he would not embarrass the executive branch?

Knowing how hard this administration protects secrets, the fact that the President didn't fight too hard to keep him should put to rest most fears that a serious cover up was in the works. Kissinger wasn't exactly in "retirement" since the guy has never stopped commenting on public affairs since leaving official politics.

Troy

[Anti-Bunny]

You're not trying hard enough, Rogen. Tell us something about Building 7!

[Squirrel Killer]

What possible reason could Bush have had to choose Henry Kissinger to come out of retirement to lead the official inquiry? If not for a cover-up, then what reason?
Because in some circles he is seen as a prestigious and impartial statesman?

As for the 911 Commission Report, even if there were no inaccuracies and omissions in it at all, your position would still be: "There's a report! So stop asking about it! We have a report!"

You must see why that's irrational. If the report is perfect, then inquiry about it should be welcome. If it's incomplete or incorrect in places, then inquiry should be all the more welcome. Questioning doesn't end as soon as an official report comes out.
In my town, there's a city alderman who is incredible vigilant about a wide variety of issues, financial, policy, legal liability, etc... He is widely criticized not for his questions, but his manner. he's completely ineffective because he's rude, he goes on long-winded tirades without a point, he wastes time, he appears to not understand procedure except when it suits his position, etc... There's another alderman who asks the same type of questions, but because he works within the rules of the council, he actually gets answers.

It's the same deal with the 9/11 Truthers. They marginalize themselves with their manner. They demand answers while answering none posed to them. They twist words. They ignore evidence. They cherry pick evidence. They fake credentials, deride legitimate questions about those credentials, and dismiss the credentials of those who disagree with them. They don't acknowledge when their theories are disproven, but just whack-a-mole over to a new issue. Now, they do seem to be getting better collectively, but before they got the memo, they were a bunch of yammering monkeys.

[Charles]

It's funny how people will generally hold governments in contempt for their inability to get anything done, their constant leaking of important/secret information, and then turn around and believe they can maintain a conspiracy the likes of which is almost too large to fathom.

[WarrenM]

It's funny how people will generally hold governments in contempt for their inability to get anything done, their constant leaking of important/secret information, and then turn around and believe they can maintain a conspiracy the likes of which is almost too large to fathom.
That has always amazed me as well. Apparently the government's only strength is keeping elaborate conspiracies a secret. Everything else? Incompetent.

[Glenn]

I'm depressed by how the girl in the truther's response video was kinda cute. What happened?A lifetime of guys biting their tongue because they think they might have a shot.

[NoWayJose]

Maybe you want an example of a question that isn't being asked and should be. I'll repeat the one I mentioned earlier. What possible reason could Bush have had to choose Henry Kissinger to come out of retirement to lead the official inquiry? If not for a cover-up, then what reason? That is a good question.

Prestige and the hope that he would not embarrass the executive branch? No.

Because in some circles he is seen as a prestigious and impartial statesman? No, I already said that was incorrect. Bzzt.

It should be noted at the outset Bush is not really sure who Henry Kissinger is. When he finally caved to demands he establish a 9/11 Commission, he just grabbed the first resume he found in the Oval Office desk. He also liked the last name, and kept saying to Cheney, "The democrats can Kissinger my ass!" and then laughed. Cheney laughed, too, according to official White House transcripts (some of the laughter notes have since been redacted, but two well-placed sources who requested their names not be used when discussing sensitive internal White House matters have confirmed both Bush and Cheney laughed).

Bush then apparently forgot all about the commission for a week or two until he was at a party and was seen talking to Kissinger in person. In an interview in Vanity Fair, Kissinger revealed Bush asked him casually if he liked freedom, to which Kissinger replied he did. Bush then asked, "as much as Jerry Falwell?" Kissinger laughed, then looked Bush straight in the eye (his words) and said, "More." This amazed and delighted the president, but it wasn't until Kissinger revealed his love of pre-emptive bombing that Bush knew he'd met the chairman of the 9/11 Commission. He asked Kissinger his name again and instructed then-White House chief of staff Andrew "Andy" Card to write it down.

However, I don't want to casually dismiss Rogen's suspicions that Kissinger was hired specifically to aid in a cover-up. If there's one thing we've learned from history, whether it's bombings in Cambodia or a violent coup in Chile, if you want something hidden from the American public, Kissinger is definitely someone to consult.

[Linoleum]

They even come out of the woodwork for Clinton, who isn't having any of it: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c68_1193347304&p=1

[Glenn]

Clinton's been on the receiving end of this kind of shit way too many times to have any patience for it.

[ElGuapo]

A lifetime of guys biting their tongue because they think they might have a shot.

Holy COW is that accurate.

[ElGuapo]

I studied some of these conspiracy papers and even read part of a book once. Out of all the crazy theories the only one I could buy is that, because of the way the towers fell, they were pre-wired to be demolished remotely in case the decision was ever made that they were going to fall over. I could see doing that to save lives, but if it was true, one would think that would have come out by now, as SOMEONE would have to wire all the columns with explosives and having active explosives just waiting for a signal would be a very, very bad idea. So I dismiss it based on a rational "that doesn't make sense" argument but not on how the towers fell. Though I have never seen a skyscraper fall before 9/11, so who knows what it looks like other than the way it happened that day.

The "there was no plane" conspiracies around the Pentagon really irk me though.

[NoWayJose]

I studied some of these conspiracy papers and even read part of a book once. Out of all the crazy theories the only one I could buy is that, because of the way the towers fell, they were pre-wired to be demolished remotely in case the decision was ever made that they were going to fall over. I could see doing that to save lives Haha, come on. You can find hot chicks other ways than joining the insane-o's

[jabroni]

The "there was no plane" conspiracies around the Pentagon really irk me though.
But where was the Looney Toons-style plane shaped hole!?

[DoomMunky]

Haha, come on. You can find hot chicks other ways than joining the insane-o's For some people, that's their only option.

[JeffL]

I studied some of these conspiracy papers and even read part of a book once. Out of all the crazy theories the only one I could buy is that, because of the way the towers fell, they were pre-wired to be demolished remotely in case the decision was ever made that they were going to fall over. I could see doing that to save lives, but if it was true, one would think that would have come out by now, as SOMEONE would have to wire all the columns with explosives and having active explosives just waiting for a signal would be a very, very bad idea. So I dismiss it based on a rational "that doesn't make sense" argument but not on how the towers fell. Though I have never seen a skyscraper fall before 9/11, so who knows what it looks like other than the way it happened that day.

The "there was no plane" conspiracies around the Pentagon really irk me though.

There are a number of places, such as the University of Purdue's engineering web page, where you can see actual engineering analyis of the falling of the towers. As you might imagine, it's a popular thing to study if you're a civil engineer or in construction management. Fascinating stuff, too. But basically, everything is explained by the data, with no need for any special explosives, etc.

[Machfive]

As you might imagine, it's a popular thing to study if you're a civil engineer or in construction management. Fascinating stuff, too. But basically, everything is explained by the data, with no need for any special explosives, etc.

The reason all these engineers think it's physically possible without explosives is because they've been taught by proxies of the conspiracy, duh.

[JeffL]

The reason all these engineers think it's physically possible without explosives is because they've been taught by proxies of the conspiracy, duh.

True, true. Professors are not only all liberal pinkos, they're evil governmental conspiracy agents also.

[Machfive]

True, true. Professors are not only all liberal pinkos, they're evil governmental conspiracy agents also.

Ah, close, but not quite.

You see, the plan was hatched over 60 years ago. So the professors today aren't part of the conspiracy, they were actually taught the wrong stuff 30+ years ago during the ominous phase 2 of the World Trade Center bombing plan.

Phase 3 was actually building the WTC so it could be blown up later by the conspiracy.