$399 PS3 40gb confirmed - Nov 2

[Gary Whitta]

Nobody post this yet? Nobody care?

From official PS blog:
With all the speculation and buzz out there regarding the 40GB PS3 announcements in Japan and Europe, I am very excited to confirm that the new $399 PS3 model will be coming to North America on November 2nd, making that particular configuration available worldwide. In North America, the 40GB PS3 comes bundled with the block-buster movie Spider-Man 3 on Blu-ray. Also, effective today, we’ve lowered the purchase price of our 80GB model by $100 to $499.

http://static.flickr.com/2097/1620237353_4bc864b2f3.jpg

[Marcus]

Wow my head asspolde.

So that makes how many different versions of the ps3 now?

60gb / 20gb / 80gb / 40gb

Wow...

[Gary Whitta]

Four SKUs in less than a year = panic.

[Chris Nahr]

Told ya so! But I didn't expect they'd bundle a movie with the $399 version, that's a nice bonus.

[Gary Whitta]

Told ya so! But I didn't expect they'd bundle a movie with the $399 version, that's a nice bonus.
It would be if it was a decent movie.

[Podunk]

$399 + no BC + no compelling exclusives = still too expensive.

But I have to admit, for the first time I did feel that little twinge of gear lust for the PS3.

[Kool Moe Dee]

Nintendo and Microsoft bundle games with their consoles.

Sony bundles a movie.

Guess that tells you a little bit about how they view their hardware...

[LesJarvis]

I'd buy one if they hadn't removed BC.

[Marcus]

Also let me get this right the 80gb version is no more?

So after Nov 2 and all the 80gbs are gone we'll only have the 40 left? Thats what it sounds like.

[Coca Cola Zero]

This SKU is such a catch-22. It gets the price down to really attractive levels but at great cost (BC is the last feature they should have focused on cutting). Between this SKU and the notable lack of any big holiday release games it really seems like Sony is focused on the PS3 as a BluRay platform jump-starter first and a game machine a far distant second.

I'm still not buying until they get some good games out there, good games I can't get on my 360 or Wii. With the exception of that Eye of Judgement game (which is neat in theory but not that interesting to me since I don't play/enjoy collectible card games very often) and Rachet and Clank (which are good games, but far from a must-have with Mario Galaxy just around the corner) it looks like its pretty much all 360 ports for the foreseeable future.

[Gary Whitta]

Nintendo and Microsoft bundle games with their consoles.

Sony bundles a movie.

Guess that tells you a little bit about how they view their hardware...
Also about the number of games that would be worth bundling.

[Gunmetal]

Nintendo and Microsoft bundle games with their consoles.

Sony bundles a movie.

Guess that tells you a little bit about how they view their hardware...
Eh? MS bundles game demos in one of their FOUR SKUs. Also, Motorstorm has been bundled with the 80gig PS3 for the past few months.

[forgeforsaken]

Eh? MS bundles game demos in one of their FOUR SKUs. Also, Motorstorm has been bundled with the 80gig PS3 for the past few months.

No, there's the bundle with Forza/Marvel Ultimate Alliance. Then there's the Arcade pack which comes with 5 arcade games and demos.

[BobJustBob]

Ratchet and Clank just got its release date bumped up a week to the upcoming Tuesday. Now buy buy buy (the 60 GB)!

[forgeforsaken]

Ratchet and Clank just got its release date bumped up a week to the upcoming Tuesday. Now buy buy buy (the 60 GB)!

I really like the R&C games, but... I don't like them that much.

[Drastic]

I'm going to wait for the ninth SKU.

I figure that's probably next summer. The pricing on the tenth SKU will be tempting to wait further to, but I'm not going to like the idea of them breaking compatibility with 2007's PS3 titles that'll be part of it.

[Gary Whitta]

LOL I just got banned by the Sony Defense Force at GAF.

[fuzzyslug]

Four SKUs in less than a year = panic.

Yeah, it does. What's Microsoft's excuse for 5 of them? At this point, we might conclude that most SKUs wins!

...unless we look at the Wii.

[unbongwah]

Also about the number of games that would be worth bundling.
Heavenly Sword is pretty and takes about as long to finish as SM3, so they have something they could've tossed in there instead.
Four SKUs in less than a year = panic.What's Microsoft's excuse for 5 of them?
The fact they've been out for more than a year?

So, anywhere I can pick up a new 60GB PS3 for $399 or less?

[Marcus]

So, anywhere I can pick up a new 60GB PS3 for $399 or less?

I still see a few of them around. I am sure they wont be hard to find!

[LesJarvis]

LOL I just got banned by the Sony Defense Force at GAF.

Wow, they're a bunch of sensitive, delicate flowers over there, aren't they?

[Morkilus]

Now you can see that they stole the Spiderman text for the PS3. But you love the PS3, Gary: Look, you have proof!

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y300/gwhitta/BodegaBay025.jpg

[Jake Plane]

$399 + ABSOLUTELY NO BACKWARDS COMPATIBILITY + no compelling exclusives + adding a horrible movie = no sale.

Sony, here's the plan:
Bring back the 60gb PS3 with near full backwards compatibility, add heavenly sword and Pirates of the Carribbean on Blu-Ray, price that sucker at $399 and feel the love.

[RepoMan]

Isn't that like the third time they've banned you, Gary? Post a link to your banning plzkthxbai.

Also why won't someone translate this (http://www.gamestooge.com/2007/09/11/why-did-the-ps3-fail-15-on-amazon-japan-book-charts/) to English and publish it here?

[Podunk]

Sony, here's the plan:
Bring back the 60gb PS3 with near full backwards compatibility, add heavenly sword and Pirates of the Carribbean on Blu-Ray, price that sucker at $399 and feel the love.

You know, I would probably pony up for a bundle like that.

[jfletch]

Im still saving up to get a system... are they gonna be getting rid of the 80gb like they have the 60gb? It makes sense for them to offer a system for those who want BC... I can deal with a moderately gimped 80gb but the 40gb... hell no.

[Drunkagain]

Anything other than BC get cut from the 40 gig version? If not I just might grab one. BC means nothing to me, I've never used it in any of my consoles and can't imagine a scenario where I would with the PS3.

[Marcus]

Im still saving up to get a system... are they gonna be getting rid of the 80gb like they have the 60gb? It makes sense for them to offer a system for those who want BC... I can deal with a moderately gimped 80gb but the 40gb... hell no.

So I guess you didnt read the first post.

[jfletch]

So I guess you didnt read the first post.

It didn't say if the 80gbs are dissapearing, though, just that they dropped the price. Got any info?

[forgeforsaken]

LOL I just got banned by the Sony Defense Force at GAF.

LOL, and here I thought you were abandoning us for them.

[jfletch]

Anything other than BC get cut from the 40 gig version? If not I just might grab one. BC means nothing to me, I've never used it in any of my consoles and can't imagine a scenario where I would with the PS3.

It also lacks the memory card readers. It is truly the PS3 tard pack.

[Fugitive]

It also loses two USB ports and SACD support, though I didn't even know it had the latter.

[Marcus]

It didn't say if the 80gbs are dissapearing, though, just that they dropped the price. Got any info?

From the wording its being replaced by the 40gig.

[Andrew Mayer]

What's the thinking on dropping the drive size then?

"It's not that much cheaper, it's just stupider."

[SlyFrog]

Awesome. Only $150-200 away from my considering it now.

[Andrew Mayer]

Awesome. Only $150-200 away from my considering it now.

What if they chop out the game playing part and then sell you a PS3 for the price you're looking for?

[Midnight Son]

What if they chop out the game playing part and then sell you a PS3 for the price you're looking for?

They could bundle it with a movie! Dude!

[Midnight Son]

Yo Whitta: Did you get banned for the following statement:

"The fact that they're bundling this with a Blu-ray movie and not a game says a lot about where Sony thinks the system's strengths are right now."

If so, you are truly evil and subversive! You may have made an 8 year old kid cry too! :(

[Coca Cola Zero]

Yeah, it does. What's Microsoft's excuse for 5 of them? At this point, we might conclude that most SKUs wins!

I'm not a big fan of the current multi-SKU console world no matter who is doing it, but... Microsoft's newer SKUs are generally more expensive than the base price (or in the case of the HDMI versions, the same), which reeks far less of desperation than what Sony has been going through. Also, Microsoft tard packs can always easily be untarded later unlike the increasingly tarded up PS3s.

[Moggraider]

$399 + no BC + no compelling exclusives = still too expensive.

But I have to admit, for the first time I did feel that little twinge of gear lust for the PS3.


It's got most of the games the 360 is getting, plus some cool exclusives of its own, plus Blu-Ray, which has beaten HD DVD. People here like to bitch about backwards comp, but in the end it's a non-issue. The PS3 is an excellent deal at $400.

[Coca Cola Zero]

Most of the games the 360 is getting minus good online experience and achivements. So uh yeah you've just reiterated what everyone is already thinking -- the PS3 is a Bluray player that happens to play some games. And you know who else made a HUGE deal about BC .. until now? Sony.

Ken Kutaragi must be spinning in his grave and he isn't even dead yet.

[Moggraider]

Achievements are meaningless, and Home is supposed to add them in soon anyway. The PS3's online experience is "good" to me because it's free. With all the consoles and a PC in my house, I'm not going to bother to pay for XBL.

[Congregard]

So how good is the hardware/software BC in the 80 gig? I know it's not 100%, but are they updating it at all or is it as good as it's going to get?

[Coca Cola Zero]

Yeah well PC games have achivements now too, but it just isn't the same. It is a system that has to exist from the get-go, trying to bolt it on as they go is par for the course for Sony with their whole online system and that's why it sucks so bad.

[Midnight Son]

People here like to bitch about backwards comp, but in the end it's a non-issue.

Not to me it isn't. I would have liked to play my PS1 and 2 games upconverted. If the non-tard PS3 had come out at $399 when new I might be getting one right now..... (for $350 or so) to play Rock Band on. As it is, I got the dreaded Titanic-360.

[Coca Cola Zero]

So how good is the hardware/software BC in the 80 gig? I know it's not 100%, but are they updating it at all or is it as good as it's going to get?


My guess is that if the 40gb sells better than existing models (which it probably will if only as a Bluray player) Sony will announce sometime early next year that the "market has spoken and nobody wants BC". Sort of the way they came out and said nobody wants the cheaper 20gb PS3 after they only made and sold a handful of them.

[jfletch]

So how good is the hardware/software BC in the 80 gig? I know it's not 100%, but are they updating it at all or is it as good as it's going to get?

There have been upgrades in all of the firmware updates to date, but there's no way to say if that's going to continue.


Not to me it isn't. I would have liked to play my PS1 and 2 games upconverted. If the non-tard PS3 had come out at $399 when new I might be getting one right now..... (for $350 or so) to play Rock Band on. As it is, I got the dreaded Titanic-360.

FWIW, PS1 games are still compatible, as they run entirely in software.

[Moggraider]

Yeah well PC games have achivements now too, but it just isn't the same. It is a system that has to exist from the get-go, trying to bolt it on as they go is par for the course for Sony with their whole online system and that's why it sucks so bad.


They're still meaningless. Gamers get invested in them after the fact, but they're not an asset from the get-go.

360 Salesman: "Yeah, when you do things, it adds like a set number of points to this number, that's called your Gamerscore, and this score you can use for... absolutely nothing! Oh, but once a year, MS will deign to give you a free Old Spice T-shirt if you bust ass and buy ten games for the achievements in the span of two months."
Prospective buyer: "Woah awesome!"

Not really.

So it's not really a selling point, just something people who already have the system grow to like.

PC Achievements feel tacked-on right now because Microsoft has failed at pushing Games for Windows. ET:QW, for example, doesn't even have the box branding. If/when MS does manage to strong arm all big publishers to use their conventions, it'll feel completely natural. So will it on the PS3. The Xbox 1 was pretty shite online for a while, too.

Not to me it isn't. I would have liked to play my PS1 and 2 games upconverted. If the non-tard PS3 had come out at $399 when new I might be getting one right now..... (for $350 or so) to play Rock Band on. As it is, I got the dreaded Titanic-360.

Sure, it's nice playing PS2 games upconverted, and I've been doing it about a year now, but BC isn't a major factor to buy, just something on your list of excuses to justify buying something. The hardcore gamers like the people here bitch about the lack of BC the most but then use it the least, because they're/we're busy playing new games.

[Midnight Son]

I'm glad you speak for me.

[Moggraider]

You're welcome. If you're so dead set on getting pricey new consoles to play old games, maybe you should just use an emulator.

[JD]

Nintendo and Microsoft bundle games with their consoles.

Sony bundles a movie.

Guess that tells you a little bit about how they view their hardware...
FWIW, in Europe the 60GB version comes with two games - either Heavenly Sword and F1 or Resistance and Motorstorm depending on what country you live in - and a second controller. Price 500 Euros. Of course, the 60GB version will only be sold as long as it's still in stock. Once they're gone, only the 40GB version will be available.

-Julian

[Kool Moe Dee]

Achievements are meaningless, and Home is supposed to add them in soon anyway.

The food was terrible. And such small portions!

You can't have it both ways.

[malkav11]

It's a big issue. A decently priced PS3 with full backwards compatibility would mean I could get rid of my aging, creaky PS2 and controllers, freeing up quite a bit of room in my entertainment centre and also defraying the PS3's cost further, if not by that much. I have probably 50-60 PS2 games, at a conservative estimate, and I'm done playing maybe six. I need to be able to play those games.

Mind you, it's also an issue for me with the 360, but I'm a lot less invested in the Xbox and my Xbox isn't teetering on the edge of failure. (I get disc read errors on my PS2 for no good goddamn reason, quite regularly.)

[malkav11]

You're welcome. If you're so dead set on getting pricey new consoles to play old games, maybe you should just use an emulator.

Because there are so many fully functional, compatible PS2 emulators. I'm just tripping all over them!

[mkozlows]

It also lacks the memory card readers. It is truly the PS3 tard pack.

Because, yeah, being able to download your photos to the PS3 is a really compelling activity. Or...?

[Coca Cola Zero]

Because, yeah, being able to download your photos to the PS3 is a really compelling activity. Or...?

The funny thing is, when pressed to justify their purchase a lot of PS3 impulse buyers will fall back on upscaled BC and the PS3's photo album feature...

[mouselock]

So how good is the hardware/software BC in the 80 gig? I know it's not 100%, but are they updating it at all or is it as good as it's going to get?

How could they possibly justify the expense of updating a feature that's not going to be IN the consoles going forward?

[Jake Plane]

Exactly. If they're cutting BC out of the 40GB version because they want to steer consumers to buying more PS3 games, don't expect them to do a damn thing on the 80GB version...

Basically, the only "real" PS3 IMHO is the "North American 60GB PS3."

[mouselock]

Sure, it's nice playing PS2 games upconverted, and I've been doing it about a year now, but BC isn't a major factor to buy, just something on your list of excuses to justify buying something. The hardcore gamers like the people here bitch about the lack of BC the most but then use it the least, because they're/we're busy playing new games.

Sony doesn't need to push units to the hardcore gamer. The exact audience they need to have drooling over a $400 PS3 is also the exact audience that goes "But I have this huge chunk of PS2 games and this one won't play them any longer?" That has almost zero intersection with the hardcore crowd, who, if they want a PS3, are going to be swayed by exclusive games.

I can buy the thought that Sony is trying to close off the PS2 as a viable development environment for potential PS3 devs.. I don't believe that's really a good way to go about it, but it at least makes some kind of sense. But getting rid of BC in order to make the console more mass market appealing? Especially after they've said it nets them an insignificant savings (i.e. isn't particularly tied to lowering the price). Utter stupidity.

If they'd gotten rid of the blu-ray drive and kept BC it'd make more sense. Except, of course, they chained themselves to that 10,000lb ball and now are getting strangled by the chain.

[Fugitive]

So how good is the hardware/software BC in the 80 gig? I know it's not 100%, but are they updating it at all or is it as good as it's going to get?
I haven't personally experienced it, but I compared my collection against the Sony software BC compatibility list, and around 60% are supposed to run without problems, 10% have fatal problems (unavoidable hangs, significant slowdown in an action game), and the rest have various minor glitches (texture corruption, choppy cutscenes, pauses, audio static, etc.).

No idea if they're going to continue updating it, but it seemed like very few of the software BC entries had any 'fixed in firmware X.Y' notes already.

[jim crawford]

Achievements are meaningless, and Home is supposed to add them in soon anyway.
The general concept of a score is meaningless. Video games, and in fact all forms of play, are inherently meaningless. What you're trying to say, presumably, is that achievements cross some arbitrary line of meaninglessness that you've drawn.

Similarly, maybe you're okay with relating to characters in a novel, but if the character in the novel has a dream, maybe you can't make yourself care about what happens in the dream, because dude, it's not even real!

And that's fair, but without some sort of argument to back it up, I care about where you draw the line only as much as I care about the personal opinions of anyone else I don't know. So if you want to go vote in a poll and link to the result instead of painting your opinion as objective fact, that'd be great.

[Gary Whitta]

Yo Whitta: Did you get banned for the following statement:

"The fact that they're bundling this with a Blu-ray movie and not a game says a lot about where Sony thinks the system's strengths are right now."

If so, you are truly evil and subversive! You may have made an 8 year old kid cry too! :(
It was post #373, whatever I said in that one. My contributions to that thread were actually some of my more reasoned PS3 trolling, which shows just how touchy the Sony-loving mods are getting these days.

[Moggraider]

The food was terrible. And such small portions!

You can't have it both ways.


Uh, yeah I can. I don't care about achievements one bit, and for anyone who does, they're supposed to be coming soon, so why is it such a big deal?

Answer: It's not.

Because there are so many fully functional, compatible PS2 emulators. I'm just tripping all over them!

It's still troublesome, but games generally do work and you can get some impressive visuals out of them.

Sony doesn't need to push units to the hardcore gamer. The exact audience they need to have drooling over a $400 PS3 is also the exact audience that goes "But I have this huge chunk of PS2 games and this one won't play them any longer?" That has almost zero intersection with the hardcore crowd, who, if they want a PS3, are going to be swayed by exclusive games.

If they'd gotten rid of the blu-ray drive and kept BC it'd make more sense. Except, of course, they chained themselves to that 10,000lb ball and now are getting strangled by the chain.

Blu-Ray is hardly a chain. If the console is already at $400 with movies included, it's not much of a burden. And its inclusion has helped the format's media adoption rate greatly, whereas the 360's HD add-on has sold pretty laughably.

I don't know where you're getting this notion that non-hardcore gamers are the ones who care about BC more. They care about it less because they hold off on the new consoles until they're damned good and ready to buy one. It's always been hardcore gamers who whine about it more. The lot of you have been kvetching since the day the 80 gig dropped BC, saying "LOLOL I'll never buy 1," whereas with more casual gamers, it's not even an issue. They've already sold their PS2 games at Gamestop.

As for exclusives, PS3 now has a decent amount that should be convincing dedicated gamers that it's time to get one. The sarcastic comments I read on here saying "Hurr, drop PS3 another $200 and throw in a blowjob and then I'll buy one" are just laughable.

The general concept of a score is meaningless. Video games, and in fact all forms of play, are inherently meaningless. What you're trying to say, presumably, is that achievements cross some arbitrary line of meaninglessness that you've drawn.

Similarly, maybe you're okay with relating to characters in a novel, but if the character in the novel has a dream, maybe you can't make yourself care about what happens in the dream, because dude, it's not even real!

And that's fair, but without some sort of argument to back it up, I care about where you draw the line only as much as I care about the personal opinions of anyone else I don't know. So if you want to go vote in a poll and link to the result instead of painting your opinion as objective fact, that'd be great.

I don't know anyone who says "I bought a 360 because it has achievements!" That's the point I'm trying to make vs. someone getting a PS3.

The fanaticism for the 360 here is laughable, given how similar the PS3 and 360 are. And their libraries have only gotten more similar over the past year, and will become only more similar. I can think of just one 360 exclusive I'm looking forward to for the rest of the year, and that's Mass Effect. That's it. PS3 has at least a couple in the meantime, but the vast majority of games I'm going to play for one or both consoles are out on both.

[jfletch]

As for exclusives, PS3 now has a decent amount that should be convincing dedicated gamers that it's time to get one. The sarcastic comments I read on here saying "Hurr, drop PS3 another $200 and throw in a blowjob and then I'll buy one" are just laughable.

I think any dedicated gamers that want to get one now (for example, myself) would be willing to pay an extra $100 to get upsampled PS2/PSX games. I don't mind there being an option, but the operative word here is option. I still need to move through FF12 and Okami and would love to do that in HD. Like someone upthread said, it is weird that Sony is going to try to appeal to the non-dedicated gamers by telling them their fancy $400 box can't play PS2 games - BC brought a lot of those people from the PSX to the PS2.


The fanaticism for the 360 here is laughable, given how similar the PS3 and 360 are. And their libraries have only gotten more similar over the past year, and will become only more similar. I can think of just one 360 exclusive I'm looking forward to for the rest of the year, and that's Mass Effect. That's it. PS3 has at least a couple in the meantime, but the vast majority of games I'm going to play for one or both consoles are out on both.

One 360 exclusive you are looking forward to. Don't forget about the 360 exclusives that aren't on PS3 (for example, Dead Rising). Compare the games on both the systems, and the 360 versions have tended to be slightly better on 360. Plus, Live is much better than PSN, the controller is better, and achievements are a free, cool bonus. If all your friends are on XBL and the game is multi than it just doesn't make sense to get the PS3 version instead. I agree the gap between the two is closing rapidly, but if you already own a 360, "the PS3 is getting all the same big games" is not a reason to buy one.

[Jake Plane]

As for exclusives, PS3 now has a decent amount that should be convincing dedicated gamers that it's time to get one. The sarcastic comments I read on here saying "Hurr, drop PS3 another $200 and throw in a blowjob and then I'll buy one" are just laughable.


Exactly - No other console maker is bundling games and dropping their price!

Oh wait... they are.

[Fugitive]

The fanaticism for the 360 here is laughable, given how similar the PS3 and 360 are. And their libraries have only gotten more similar over the past year, and will become only more similar. I can think of just one 360 exclusive I'm looking forward to for the rest of the year, and that's Mass Effect. That's it. PS3 has at least a couple in the meantime, but the vast majority of games I'm going to play for one or both consoles are out on both.
I think part of it is simply that a lot of people already had 360s, or were already leaning towards it because of price, so multiplatform games aren't nearly as much of an attraction.

[Moggraider]

I think any dedicated gamers that want to get one now (for example, myself) would be willing to pay an extra $100 to get upsampled PS2/PSX games. I don't mind there being an option, but the operative word here is option. I still need to move through FF12 and Okami and would love to do that in HD. Like someone upthread said, it is weird that Sony is going to try to appeal to the non-dedicated gamers by telling them their fancy $400 box can't play PS2 games - BC brought a lot of those people from the PSX to the PS2.

We've all known for months that the PS3 has been de-emphasizing BC for months, so if you didn't get a 60 gig with hardware BC when the deal was running, you didn't care that much about BC.




I agree the gap between the two is closing rapidly, but if you already own a 360, "the PS3 is getting all the same big games" is not a reason to buy one.


I wasn't speaking about people who already own a 360. Halo 3's sale boost has happened, boosted the console sales a couple hundred thousand, and when everything is said and done there are still plenty of people with neither of the newer consoles.

[Ben Sones]

The fanaticism for the 360 here is laughable, given how similar the PS3 and 360 are. And their libraries have only gotten more similar over the past year, and will become only more similar.

The PS3 library is not similar to the 360's library in one key respect, though: the 360's library is much larger, and has many, many more good games in it. And the hardware is likely different in one key respect: even with the new PS3 price drop, the 360 is still $120 cheaper.

For people that haven't bought either console yet, those two points are going to count for an awful lot. The PS3 is still a tumbleweed-filled wasteland of games--even more so without PS2 BC.

[Moggraider]

Four SKUs in less than a year = panic.


Xbox 360 Elite.
Xbox 360 Halo Edition.
Xbox 360 Arcade Edition (coming soon).
Xbox 360 with Marvel Ultimate Alliance and another bad game I've forgotten.

[jim crawford]

I don't know anyone who says "I bought a 360 because it has achievements!" That's the point I'm trying to make vs. someone getting a PS3.
You're rebutting a straw man. Nobody has ever made that argument in the history of the universe. I'm pretty sure, anyways, feel free to quote somebody if I'm wrong.

Achievements are merely a nice feature. For the recond, though, I was excited about the idea of cross-game scoring long before I owned a 360.

The fanaticism for the 360 here is laughable, given how similar the PS3 and 360 are.
This argument holds a bit more water now that the prices are closer to equivalent for the reasonable SKUs. Give people time for it to sink in.

And their libraries have only gotten more similar over the past year, and will become only more similar. I can think of just one 360 exclusive I'm looking forward to for the rest of the year, and that's Mass Effect.
Right, but what about exclusives that were released in the past, do those not count any more? They're still exclusive. New console owners may still want to play them.

Also, what about every nearly cross-platform game being a better experience on the 360? Achievements are a nontrivial part of that, incidentally.

[Coca Cola Zero]

Xbox 360 Elite.
Xbox 360 Halo Edition.
Xbox 360 Arcade Edition (coming soon).
Xbox 360 with Marvel Ultimate Alliance and another bad game I've forgotten.

I already said this, but the difference is obvious, Sony is slashing features -- real features, features people use, features Sony themselves have used in the past as a strong selling point and have ridiculed their competition for not supporting well enough -- to get a reasonable price while Microsoft tends to push new SKUs like the Elite and Halo edition that cost MORE than the base model. They both have too many SKUs, but only in Sony's case does the constant introduction of new designs (each version more gimped than the last) come off as a last-ditch desperation move.

[Zep--]

Isn't one of the new 360 tard packs minus an HDMI port?

Zep--

[Moggraider]

You're rebutting a straw man. Nobody has ever made that argument in the history of the universe. I'm pretty sure, anyways. Feel free to quote somebody if I'm wrong.

No, you brought up a straw man when you took my comment about achievements too far. I've been talking from the perspective of a person who has neither console since CCZ posted.

Right, but what about exclusives that were released in the past, do those not count any more? They're still exclusive. New console owners may still want to play them.

Unless they get a big push again via $20 rerelease or something, mostly they will fall by the wayside.

Also, what about every nearly cross-platform game being a better experience on the 360? Achievements are a nontrivial part of that, incidentally.

It's true 360 games are generally getting slightly better performance, but the trade of the PS3 letting you play online for free isn't horrible.


I'm going to go play Halo 3 now.

[Coca Cola Zero]

Isn't one of the new 360 tard packs minus an HDMI port?

Zep--


Every current 360 SKU has an HDMI port, including the tard pack (Xbox 360 arcade). You may still find an older Premium or Xbox 360 Core on the shelf with no HDMI since they didn't used to have HDMI, but Microsoft isn't shipping those anymore.

[Gary Whitta]

Xbox 360 Elite.
Xbox 360 Halo Edition.
Xbox 360 Arcade Edition (coming soon).
Xbox 360 with Marvel Ultimate Alliance and another bad game I've forgotten.
While I don't understand who is supposed to want the Elite, the Halo 360 is just a limited edition novelty designed to give it a short-term sales boost, it's not a core hardware revision replacing another. The Arcade is merely the rebranded Core. And the Premium pack-in is just throwing some games in with an existing unit. All this after three years of having established the 360 platform with two consistent versions.

Compare this to the constant game of hardware revision musical chairs that Sony is playing. In its FIRST YEAR of retail life we've seen:

* Four different versions released
* Two versions discontinued
* Three different pricepoints
* Multiple confusing hardware variations (wifi/no wifi, card reader/no card reader, 2USB/4USB, fully back-compatible/gimped BC/no BC at all).

It's all very confusing, and shows just how desperate Sony is to find its spot in the market through nothing more than trial and error.

(Oh, and Forza 2 is shit now? MEGATON!)

[Zep--]

Ok..Still no harddrive tho (i think). Why do they keep prolonging that?

Zep--

[jeffd]

Ok..Still no harddrive tho (i think). Why do they keep prolonging that?

Zep--

Cost.

[Zep--]

I could understand the cost aspect if they were 2.5" drives like in a PS3. But aren't regular desktop drives pretty damn cheap?

Zep--

[Jake Plane]

We've all known for months that the PS3 has been de-emphasizing BC for months, so if you didn't get a 60 gig with hardware BC when the deal was running, you didn't care that much about BC.


Or... you DID care about BC...

BUT:

The PS3 cost $599.
And had a crap library.
And a crappy version of LIVE.
And there were more affordable consoles.
And you thought given the statement below that Sony wouldn't COMPLETELY ELIMINATE backwards compatibility moving forward:

Backwards compatibility, as you know from PlayStation One and PlayStation 2, is a core value of what we believe we should offer. And access to the library of content people have created, bought for themselves, and accumulated over the years is necessary to create a format. PlayStation is a format meaning that it transcends many devices -- PSOne, PS2 and now PS3.

[Zep--]

Ok..if you have ps2 games, you have a ps2....so...the BC argument is meaningless, isn't it?

I gave my ps2 away when i got my PS3 because my ps3 had the hardware BC. If it did not, I'd still have my PS2.

I don't understand what the point is here.

There was never any mention of Sony adding the upscaler to the PS3 when it was released, so that can't be an argument either.

So the only thing left for the BC bitchers is, Sony Hate, are broke or just want to bitch (or all of the above).

Zep--

[Andrew Mayer]

Or... you DID care about BC...

BUT:

The PS3 cost $599.
And had a crap library.
And a crappy version of LIVE.
And there were more affordable consoles.
And you thought given the statement below that Sony wouldn't COMPLETELY ELIMINATE backwards compatibility moving forward:

Exactly. The whole attitude that the consumer should be expected to run out and take advantage of their limited time offer is the kind of ridiculous thinking that got Sony into this mess in the first place.

[forgeforsaken]

Ok..if you have ps2 games, you have a ps2....so...the BC argument is meaningless, isn't it?
Zep--

It's about consolidation. There's limited space under any given TV and a limited number of inputs.

[Jake Plane]

Ok..if you have ps2 games, you have a ps2....so...the BC argument is meaningless, isn't it?

Zep--

Or...

You could be one of those crazy consumers who doesn't like the idea of having a:

PS2,
PS3,
Xbox,
Xbox 360,
GameCube and
Wii

all hooked up to their home entertainment system.

BC is appealing for a lot of reasons. One reason could be you had the system and want to get rid of it and use the savings to pay for the new system. Another is you NEVER had the old system and buying the new one holds some appeal because than you can play those old games.

Either way... the new PS3 does nothing for you on either count. No BC whatsoever.

[Zep--]

It's about consolidation. There's limited space under any given TV and a limited number of inputs.

I have never seen an xbox or 360 in person, but looking at my TV stand which already has a Wii and a PS3 in it, I could easily fit 4 more ps3 in it. and the thing is only 3'x3'x2'.

The input problem would be solved by a small switchbox.

Zep--

[forgeforsaken]

I have never seen an xbox or 360 in person, but looking at my TV stand which already has a Wii and a PS3 in it, I could easily fit 4 more ps3 in it. and the thing is only 3'x3'x2'.

The input problem would be solved by a small switchbox.

Zep--

Well good for you. With my cable box, reciever, 360 and Wii I'm almost maxed in mine. PS2 has already been relegated to the crap TV upstairs.

[malkav11]

It's still troublesome, but games generally do work and you can get some impressive visuals out of them.


If by "generally do work" you mean "less than 50% of the titles tested with PCSX2, the only PS2 emulator currently in active development, and that's counting each region as a separate game", yes. And many of the games that are labelled playable apparently have a variety of non-fatal bugs still. Should be fun trying to get my saves onto my computer, too.

I went back and counted. I actually have more like a hundred PS2 games, 7 of which I've completed (apparently, I need to quit buying so many games). Sub-50% compatibility simply will not meet my needs.

[Midnight Son]

I have never seen an xbox or 360 in person, but looking at my TV stand which already has a Wii and a PS3 in it, I could easily fit 4 more ps3 in it. and the thing is only 3'x3'x2'.

The input problem would be solved by a small switchbox.

Zep--

Once again, just because something is right for you doesn't mean it's right for me or others. This seems like a difficult thing for people to wrap their heads around.

[Moore]

Xbox 360 Elite.
Xbox 360 Halo Edition.
Xbox 360 Arcade Edition (coming soon).
Xbox 360 with Marvel Ultimate Alliance and another bad game I've forgotten.


Forza 2? the driving game so good my 60 YEAR OLD DAD knows what it is?


Zep? NEVER SEEN a xbox 1 or 360? you've never been in a store? bought a game? Cant see through the sony peril sensitive sunglasses?

[Moore]

Isn't one of the new 360 tard packs minus an HDMI port?

Zep--


No? all arcades have hdmi. It's just the newest core, but now it has 5 free games, a larger memory card and the dumped the wired controller for wireless. How is that as bad as dumping BC forever but costing more than the 360 w/ BC AND 2 good pack in games?

[Ben Sones]

Ok..if you have ps2 games, you have a ps2....so...the BC argument is meaningless, isn't it?

Ah, remember when all the Sony fanboys were ridiculing the Microsoft fanboys for saying exactly the same thing, back when everyone thought that Sony was going to have 100% backwards compatibility? I do.

[SlyFrog]

What if they chop out the game playing part and then sell you a PS3 for the price you're looking for?

Nah. I'd rather they actually add in the game playing part, and let me buy a DVD player if I want one.

The game playing part would be worth about $150-200 less than what they are now charging.

[David Hellman]

According to Kotaku (http://kotaku.com/gaming/spin/jack-tretton-says-dropping-bc-wasnt-for-cost-measures-312628.php), Jack Tretton says the new PS3 lacks PS2 backward compatibility not to cut costs, but to discourage PS3 owners from buying PS2 games instead of PS3 games.

Is this credible? Is there data showing how many PS2 games PS3 owners are buying? Would Sony really discourage purchase of any liscensed software, regardless of platform? And will this move really boost PS3 software sales???

It was originally reported in the Wall Street Journal (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119266831139662837.html?apl=y&r=416878); unfortunately, I don't have a subscription, so I couldn't read it.

[Marcus]

If that is true thats lolerskates.

I only bought my PS3 to replace my PS2 and watch movies on it.

[gamadict]

If you're Sony, you might want to discourage the sale of PS2 games because most people buying PS2 games are grazing off of the massive reserve of used games out there. Check the NPDs, 1 PS2 game in the top-10, Madden 08. New PS2 game sales are basically dead

Of course, I think that's spin anyway

[Andrew Mayer]

Oh, for fuck's sake:

I guess the way I tend to look at it, N'Gai, is if I'm a consumer, and I paid $599 for the Playstation 3 when it launched, I got backwards compatibility and I got Playstation 3 technology. Today, for $399, I'm able to get all the same technology in the Playstation 3, and for $129, if I don't own a PlayStation 2, I can buy that as well at any retailer in North America. So for a total investment of $529, I've got two machines that do everything the same machine did a year ago at $599. So it's hard for me to see that as a negative for the consumer.

You machine was never worth $600 to the average consumer! It never worked!

LET IT GO!

The rest of the interview is equally nonsensical and defensive. You may get dizzy from the spin.

[Coca Cola Zero]

Oh, for fuck's sake:

I see your point but at least the part you quoted is somewhat understandable even if I don't agree with his value proposition.

But did he really say the BC wasn't pulled as a cost cutting measure? Because if that's true it is crazy that they removed it. It is even more crazy that he actually told someone that the BC was pulled to spur PS3 sales and doesn't save much on costs.. if he actually did say that, which Kotaku, 1up and various other reports are stating he did (though, like others above, I don't have a WSJ subscription so I have no idea how out of context the paraphrasing might be).

[David Hellman]

If you're Sony, you might want to discourage the sale of PS2 games because most people buying PS2 games are grazing off of the massive reserve of used games out there. Check the NPDs, 1 PS2 game in the top-10, Madden 08. New PS2 game sales are basically dead

Of course, I think that's spin anyway


Interesting point, but... in that case, why bother with the old platform at all? It's still profitable. Unless there's some difference between PS2 owners and PS3 owners...

Are you suggesting that PS2 owners are splurging on new, shrink-wrapped games while PS3 owners are penny-pinching bargain bin grazers?

Now that's some backwards-ness!

[gamadict]

No, I think most people still buying PS2 games in the US right now are buying mostly used or otherwise heavily discounted games, whether they're playing them on PS2 or PS3. Or pirating them, which you probably can't do on the PS3? Just check out the NPDs and look how few PS2 games are in the top-10 or 25, and remember the PS2 probably still has triple the userbase of all the next-gen consoles combined. Hardware sales are still showing plenty of strength, even

The hardware is pretty profitable for Sony at this point, but look at the development resources Sony first party and many other studios are dumping into the PS2 right now. It's not commensurate with the userbase, because the new game market is winding down on the PS2

Of course, as I said, I don't actually believe PS3 owners are buying a lot of PS2 games anyway so I don't buy that reason for dropping BC

[krayzkrok]

As someone who doesn't own a PS2 or a PSOne, if I had a PS3 I'd almost certainly be buying 2nd hand PS2/One games because a) there are some great games there I've never played and b) there are fuck all PS3 games that I want to play. But of course b) is exactly why I don't have a PS3. And uncertainty about the 360's reliability is why I don't have a 360. And not being interested in waving shit around is why I don't have a Wii. I'd be glad to see Sony get their act together and make the PS3 compelling, but they've done their best to do the opposite.

[unbongwah]

Ugh, now I'm confused all over again: the 60GB (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8008489&type=product&id=1156202764702) and 80GB (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8463129&type=product&id=1184768163607) PS3s are currently the same price, even though the latter has a bigger HDD and comes with Motorstorm.

Bluh? WTF?

My head hurts.

[Fugitive]

There's no official price drop on the 60GB since Sony's no longer shipping any of them, so it's up to the retailers. There'll probably be sales on it if they don't keep moving on their own -- one store up here had $70 off on them until they ran out of stock.

[mouselock]

Ok..if you have ps2 games, you have a ps2....so...the BC argument is meaningless, isn't it?

No. There are still PS1 games I'll want to play in the far future. Until Sony unpretentiously did away with BC this generation I expected given the solid BC of the PS2 and their stated commitment that I'd be fine. Now I have to worry about what happens when my PS2 dies if I don't buy a PS3 right now. That's a very demotivating position to be in when it comes to continuing to support Sony products. I don't like feeling like I need to overextend myself right now if I want a feature that they told me a year ago was essentially inviolate. It makes me not trust the company.

[Funkula]

You know, if the flame-out of the PS3 continues, I could see how developers might continue making multiplatform games PS2 compatible. If that results in another generation of games dumbed down to PS2 hardware capabilities, I will be FUCKING LIVID.

[LesJarvis]

No. There are still PS1 games I'll want to play in the far future. Until Sony unpretentiously did away with BC this generation I expected given the solid BC of the PS2 and their stated commitment that I'd be fine. Now I have to worry about what happens when my PS2 dies if I don't buy a PS3 right now. That's a very demotivating position to be in when it comes to continuing to support Sony products. I don't like feeling like I need to overextend myself right now if I want a feature that they told me a year ago was essentially inviolate. It makes me not trust the company.

Exactly. I've got a library of ~40 PS1 games and ~30 PS2 games, and I'm big on revisiting classics. My PS2 stopped reading discs a while ago, and while I was able to open it up and futz with the laser enough so that it'll play games with only an occasional lockup, it's definitely on its last legs. If the PS3 had 99%+ compatibility on PS1 and 2 games for a $400 price point I'd buy one. There'd be enough value there combined with Blu-Ray movies and the promise of some good future titles. Without that it's just not enough, though.

[Ben Sones]

You know, if the flame-out of the PS3 continues, I could see how developers might continue making multiplatform games PS2 compatible. If that results in another generation of games dumbed down to PS2 hardware capabilities, I will be FUCKING LIVID.

As a few folks have already pointed out, new PS2 games aren't selling that well, either. That console has reached the point where it has started to become a victim of its own success. There are so many great games in its back catalog that people have a whole lot less incentive to take chances on the new ones. The list of stuff that I still need to play on the PS2 is like a mile long at this point.

[Drunkagain]

Are they still doing the 5 free Bluray movies with a PS3 purchase? I know the selection sucks but if I do end up buying I'd want the movies anyway.

[unbongwah]

Are they still doing the 5 free Bluray movies with a PS3 purchase?
Yes. (http://www.bluraysavings.com/) Offer's good thru January, so no rush.

[Drunkagain]

Yes. (http://www.bluraysavings.com/) Offer's good thru January, so no rush.

Cool!

I wonder if they'll offer any bundles for the holidays besides the Motorstorm one.

[Moggraider]

How many more SKUs do you want?

[Marcus]

Looks like they changed the movies available from the last batch.

I am kinda screwed though because I didnt submit mine =(.

[Moore]

the hddvd thing for the 360 comes w/ s1 of heroes + 5 hd dvds now if you buy from betsbuy. All in all worth more than the sticker price.

[Brad Grenz]

I already said this, but the difference is obvious, Sony is slashing features -- real features, features people use, features Sony themselves have used in the past as a strong selling point and have ridiculed their competition for not supporting well enough -- to get a reasonable price while Microsoft tends to push new SKUs like the Elite and Halo edition that cost MORE than the base model. They both have too many SKUs, but only in Sony's case does the constant introduction of new designs (each version more gimped than the last) come off as a last-ditch desperation move.

But the complaint has always been that the PS3 was too feature rich and cost too much. And the only meaningful feature the 40GB sku removes is PS2 compatibility. Nothing else is gone; nothing that effects new game development (like hdd-less skus). It's not gimped!

And you can't exactly point to Microsoft's success in this area, either. They should have ciut prices a lot more and a lot faster. Their game line-up continues to fail to impress a broad segment of consumers. With all the advantages they've had (including Sony's failures) it's frankly embarrassing that they've sold as few consoles as they have. And their variety of boutique skus does not help them like a real price drop would have.

[Jake Plane]

Outselling the Wii last month and outselling the PS3... five to one...

I think the 360 is doing better than you give it credit for.

But more on point, I think your response glosses over a key point - Sony is cutting features not so much to save costs but to help push PS3 software sales. And that mentality speaks volumes of why Sony is failing.

Instead of setting up a viable business that appeals to gamers, they're setting up gamers to make their business more viable.

[malkav11]

But the complaint has always been that the PS3 was too feature rich and cost too much.

Wait...what? I could have sworn that the complaint has always been that the PS3 cost too much, full stop.

[Brad Grenz]

Outselling the Wii last month and outselling the PS3... five to one...

I think the 360 is doing better than you give it credit for.

But more on point, I think your response glosses over a key point - Sony is cutting features not so much to save costs but to help push PS3 software sales. And that mentality speaks volumes of why Sony is failing.

Instead of setting up a viable business that appeals to gamers, they're setting up gamers to make their business more viable.

Well, I think people take PR statements too seriously. Sony knows people don't spend $5-600 to just buy PS2 games they could play on a $129 system. This is ironic, since Sony's full of liars, right? So why are we taking this statement at face value? Obviously the BC hardware's removal doesn't save the whole $100, but in combination with other reductions in component costs and complexity you get a nice 20% price cut. So Trenton gave a silly answer to a stupid question. They have more PS3 games now and want to emphasize that. cutting the GS also saves a not insignificant amount of money. Wanting to create some kind of graft on the part of Sony out of this is just absurd.

But you're wrong about MS. Unit sales spiked for Halo 3, but now there's no one left of the people who buy Xbox to play Halo and they have to reach out to everyone else. For the advantages they have and the marketing position they're in, they should be selling twice as many units a month, and they aren't. That's a significant failure for MS. One that let Nintendo blow past them with a $250 stick-wavy Gamecube in short order.

Sony's struggled, sure, but we always knew this holiday season was the first real test of the system. Now that they have a better price point and an actual lineup of games we'll see how they do. It's always been about seeing what games at what price Sony could offer THIS year. To paint their current strategy as indicative of panic is beyond hyperbolic. It's intellectually dishonest.

[Moggraider]

I went back and counted. I actually have more like a hundred PS2 games, 7 of which I've completed (apparently, I need to quit buying so many games). Sub-50% compatibility simply will not meet my needs.


You're never going to beat all 93 of those games. You should probably sell them before they hit N64-level values. Give up and come to the current gen and try not to buy so many games ;).

[mkozlows]

Unit sales spiked for Halo 3, but now there's no one left of the people who buy Xbox to play Halo

Except for all the people who bought an Xbox to play Halo when it was $199, or the people who get games for Christmas, or the ones who didn't know Halo was going to be coming out months in advance because they don't read the gaming press and need to save their money for a bit to drop $500 on videogames, or...

There are huge segments of the original-Xbox (and the Halo 1-2) market that the 360 hasn't yet captured, for price or opportunity or whimsy or whatever.

The way I figure it, the 360 sold 1.6 million units in Nov-Dec of last year, when it was a year-old machine still at its launch price, competing with all the Wii/PS3 hype (but not the disappointing actual performance of either machine -- the press still wrote articles indicating that the PS3 was going to blow the 360 away in raw performance, and the Wii was trying to completely own the words "fun" and "innovative" and hadn't yet been saddled by the words "cheap pile of shit").

This year, the 360 is cheaper (and to tell the truth, I think the fact of the price drop is almost more important than its magnitude -- someone who tells themself at launch that they won't buy it until it's cheaper might be sitting there gritting their teeth 18 months later, but damn if they're going to pay full price for it now), it comes bundled with a couple of games, it has a gaming library that includes an enormous pile of excellent games, including a moderately popular game like Halo, and the PS3 (and, for some audiences, the Wii) are noticeably less interesting as competitors. Oh, and plus more people than ever have HDTVs, and those people are increasingly interested in upgrading their legacy stuff to HD-compatible stuff.

There's simply no way that the 360 isn't going to significantly over-perform its last holiday season, and it's crazy to say that they've tapped out their market.

[Jake Plane]

To paint their current strategy as indicative of panic is beyond hyperbolic. It's intellectually dishonest.

Sure, man. Whatever you say...

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/10/19/takahashi-sony-begging-ps3-devs-to-stay-on-board/

[jfletch]

Sure, man. Whatever you say...

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/10/19/takahashi-sony-begging-ps3-devs-to-stay-on-board/

I remember reading that a lot of developers and publishers were so turned off by Nintendo's arrogance and bullying when they were on top that they happily jumped to Sega and Sony when they had the opportunity to do so. Nintendo didn't quite realize this until... well I don't think they ever realized it. But I guess Sony knows their own history and is trying to keep that from happening by doing an about-face.

This is why they got rid of Kuturagi, he never would've sacrificed his vision for the ultimate living room centerpiece even while it was withering on store shelves. He was too arrogant and sure of himself and that showed in everything Sony was doing. So they brought in Kaz Hirai to get it together and who knows, it may not be enough. But these changes in hardware focus and corporate culture were necessary.

[Andrew Mayer]

Sony's struggled, sure, but we always knew this holiday season was the first real test of the system.

No, the first real test was last year. They failed to become a hot item in their first Christmas the way the XBox was its first year, and the Wii was last year.

Now we're onto a different test.

Now that they have a better price point and an actual lineup of games we'll see how they do. It's always been about seeing what games at what price Sony could offer THIS year.

Not it hasn't. That isn't the way the market works. And if it was then they've already failed on the "what games" part. While Jak and Daxter may have an audience it isn't a major system seller. It just doesn't have that kind of resonance for the audience.

To paint their current strategy as indicative of panic is beyond hyperbolic. It's intellectually dishonest.

Ironically your use of the phrase "intellectually dishonest" is hyperbolic.

If Sony isn't panicking to some degree then they're even more out of it than I thought.

[Moggraider]

Outselling the Wii last month and outselling the PS3... five to one...

I think the 360 is doing better than you give it credit for.

The Wii's been outselling the 360 since it came out, and the 360 only edged out the Wii despite there being no killer titles last month for the Wii. The vast majority of Halo 3 purchasers already had a 360. 3 million copies of Halo generated about 300,000 sales.


One 360 exclusive you are looking forward to.

I was thinking about this and I can't think of any 360 exclusives this fall besides Mass Effect. I do like to play all the exclusives for all the consoles via Gamefly, so what am I missing?

[Ben Sones]

The Wii's been outselling the 360 since it came out, and the 360 only edged out the Wii despite there being no killer titles last month for the Wii. The vast majority of Halo 3 purchasers already had a 360. 3 million copies of Halo generated about 300,000 sales.

The vast majority of people who purchased it at launch are. I suspect that Halo is going to continue to be a system-seller through the holidays, though.

I was thinking about this and I can't think of any 360 exclusives this fall besides Mass Effect. I do like to play all the exclusives for all the consoles via Gamefly, so what am I missing?

Ace Combat 6, Naruto: Rise of a Ninja, Kane and Lynch, and Viva Pinata: Party Animals are all still coming this year. There are also some 360 exclusives that were just released, like Beautiful Katamari and Project Gotham 4. So there's a goodly number of 360 exclusives this fall. Mass Effect is the big one I'm looking forward to at this point, though the Naruto game also looks really promising.

[Moggraider]

Kane and Lynch is coming to PS3 too. Beautiful Katamari was nothing new. I did forget about Ace Combat 6... I don't expect much from Rise of a Ninja.

[Ben Sones]

Kane and Lynch is coming to PS3 too. Beautiful Katamari was nothing new. I did forget about Ace Combat 6... I don't expect much from Rise of a Ninja.

Yep, you're right about K&L (don't know why I thought that was a 360-only game). Re: Katamari: if you are going to exclude franchise sequels, that's going to leave you with very few exclusive games on any system. And the Naruto game actually looks pretty promising.

[Moggraider]

I don't mean to exclude sequels in general; BK just left me unimpressed.

[MyNameIsWill]

http://blog.wired.com/games/images/2007/10/22/venn_copy.jpg

[Damien Neil]

I appear to have bought a $380 PS3, thanks to this link from Penny Arcade:
http://www.ebgames.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=020071

Original 20GB model, so I get the full backwards compatibility. I'm such a console slut.

[Brad Grenz]

Yeah, if you don't need wireless the 20's a good deal if you see one for sale. You can upgrade the HDD at your leisure. I've even heard reports that left over 60gb units have been bundled by some retailers with silly good deals. $499 including 3-4 games plus some blu-rays (not including the 5 free deal).

[Damien Neil]

I completely forgot that the 20GB model doesn't have wireless. Fortunately, I want wired anyway; our wireless router sits atop the AV stack where the consoles live. :>

[Brad Grenz]

Even if you needed it, buying a $40 buffalo router and turning it into a wireless bridge would still be a pretty cost effective way to get a PS3 with full BC.

[LesJarvis]

Much to my own chagrin I'm seriously considering ordering one of those. $380 is a decent enough price with full BC, and frankly the HDD size is irrelevant to me. Is there any way to get PS1/2 saves off of memory cards without the built in card reader?

[BobJustBob]

The built-in card readers don't read PS1/2 memory cards. They read CF, SD, and MemoryStick I believe. You need a $15 adapter to copy your saves over.

Or you can download cheat saves and not bother copying yours over.

[MikeSolita]

The built-in card readers don't read PS1/2 memory cards. They read CF, SD, and MemoryStick I believe. You need a $15 adapter to copy your saves over.

Or you can download cheat saves and not bother copying yours over.

Or just buy the memory card reader, take it home, copy your saves, re-package it and return it to the store and tell them you "bought the wrong item" and get your money back. (...Not that I would do this myself. Not at all.)

Also, looks like PS3 finally has their first AAA exclusive -- IGN gives R&C a 9.4:

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/829/829409p1.html

[Zep--]

walmart still has 60 gb with HW BC
comes with a game, a bluray remote and the 5 movies for 499

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5303673

Zep--

[LesJarvis]

Eh, I think I'm gonna buy Zack and Wiki instead. I'm bitter just thinking about buying one only so I can get working BC. Maybe once they drop the price another $100 and reimplement BC.

[mouselock]

The built-in card readers don't read PS1/2 memory cards. They read CF, SD, and MemoryStick I believe. You need a $15 adapter to copy your saves over.

Or you can download cheat saves and not bother copying yours over.

This is pretty indicative of what's wrong with the PS3. "Buy the deluxe model, use the free included memory card reader to read all the memory cards you could ever need to... oh.. except for the ones related to our previous two consoles. THAT will cost you another $15."

[RickH]

Eh, I think I'm gonna buy Zack and Wiki instead. I'm bitter just thinking about buying one only so I can get working BC. Maybe once they drop the price another $100 and reimplement BC.

BC will never return.

[LesJarvis]

BC will never return.

Yeah, just like rumble is an outdated and last gen :)

You may well be right, of course, though that was meant more as a jab at Sony's constantly shifting platform specs. You never can be to sure with them, though, and I figure there's at least some chance they'll have a downloadable software BC implementation available for the BC-less models at some point. If I still feel the itch in a week or so I may bite the bullet and get one of the 20GB models. It's just weird how Sony has turned buying the PS3 into an almost catch-22 scenario, depending on what features you're interested in.

[Andrew Mayer]

YIt's just weird how Sony has turned buying the PS3 into an almost catch-22 scenario, depending on what features you're interested in.

And that's the difference between the Sony SKUs and the MS SKUs.

You can turn almost any 360 into any other.

[Brad Grenz]

Yeah, and all you have to do is pay an obscene mark-up! Everybody wins!

[Coca Cola Zero]

Yeah, and all you have to do is pay an obscene mark-up! Everybody wins!

Xbox 360 Arcade + 20 gb HD is only like 20 bucks more than the 360 Premium and it comes with 5 free arcade games which retail for more than $20. Granted, the mark-up Microsoft places on any of their HDs is obscene, but that is a different complaint than the tard upgrade price one.

[Coca Cola Zero]

Anyone know if anyone else is selling the PS3 20gb at that price new? I was about to actually bite and buy it but ebgames is listing that sku as back ordered (though it let me put it into my cart and start checking out)... but since Sony hasn't made that model for sale in the US for a long time I suspect they will never have new stock.

[jfletch]

Xbox 360 Arcade + 20 gb HD is only like 20 bucks more than the 360 Premium and it comes with 5 free arcade games which retail for more than $20. Granted, the mark-up Microsoft places on any of their HDs is obscene, but that is a different complaint than the tard upgrade price one.

Yea, the Arcade is a huge improvement over the Core and couldn't be considered a stupid purchase like it. Let's not forget one of the 5 free games is Pac-Man CE, not exactly a game one would buy a system for, but a must-have if you already own it. If I was getting ready to purchase a 360 I would certainly consider going the Arcade + HD route, especially if I can snag a refurb HD.

When I buy a new system I tend to go insane in the head, buying lots of accessories and unnecessary items. For PS2 I bought a fricking horizontal stand. That is why I think the modular approach MS takes is probably better. People can go ahead and buy parts to bring their system up. With the PS3 your system is either gimped or it isn't.

[RickH]

You may well be right, of course, though that was meant more as a jab at Sony's constantly shifting platform specs.

Yeah, that looks like slow-motion panic to me. They've already lost the lead, the only issue now is staying competitive.

[Fugitive]

Well it turns out there's one advantage to the 40GB model: it has a 65nm CPU (http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/30/40gb-ps3-features-65nm-chips-lower-power-consumption/) and greatly reduced power consumption.

When I set my 60GB unit up, I was briefly tempted by the pretty Folding@Home interface until I ran the numbers and realized it would increase my power bill by around $15 a month.

[Jake Plane]

Okay... but donate $10 to cancer research then!

[Chris Nahr]

Does Engadget always neglect to mention the actual sources of its news? As several other outlets reported, the original web source was this Computerbase article (http://www.computerbase.de/news/consumer_electronics/konsolen/sony/2007/oktober/40-gb-playstation_3_65-nm-cell_-rsx/) which in turn reported on an article in the latest c't print magazine.

Both articles are in German, so here's the summary. c't has determined that the new PS3 model contains new revisions of the motherboard and southbridge. They also measured a reduced energy consumption (200 W -> 135 W under full load) and thus concluded that the Cell and RSX graphics chips must be the new 65 nm variants, although Sony has yet to confirm this. Thanks to reduced power draw, the new model also makes less noise: 1.3 -> 0.5-0.8 Sone (no idea what the English term is).

Hey, anyone want an almost-BC Euro model for €599, rarely used, good as new? :(

[Brad Grenz]

People have been speculating that this was the case ever since pictures of the 40gig packaging hit the web earlier this month due to a dramatic drop in reported power usage cited. It's not that surprising. It's not like dropping the GS alone made a $100 price cut feasible.