Orange Box: What order to play? [Archive]

ducker

10-18-2007, 09:30 AM

Never played half-life or counterstrike. The only game in that engine I've played is The Ship.

Anyway, I just ordered the orange box thing. I notice Half-Life 2, Half-Life 2: Episode 1, Half-Life 2: Episode 2. What order should I play these in?

I'll assume HL2 are more single player shooters and team fortress is like battlefield without dolphin diving, red tags, vehicles, and crappy servers?

Are you serious???? I mean shit, the only series that wasn't really shown in order was the Star Wars series, and even that went in order of the numbers.
If you have to ask this sort of question you should head back to elementary school and pay attention.

On a side note; since you've never played HL - go out and buy HL - the original. I found that to be a lot more interesting then HL2. (which I still have yet to play through)

Brakara

10-18-2007, 09:33 AM

But the first thing that you should play is clearly Portal.

Hmmm, I've heard you shouldn't play it until (at least) you've finished ep1 (due to spoilers). Is that wrong? I'm holding off on Portal because of that...

Ben Sones

10-18-2007, 09:36 AM

There is nothing particularly spoilery in Portal. Go ahead and get playin'!

stusser

10-18-2007, 09:36 AM

Portal has no spoilers for HL2/ep1/ep2. Play it first, it's short and awesome.

Rock8man

10-18-2007, 09:37 AM

HEY I HEARD THAT CHARLES DOESN'T LIKE EP 1 OR 2, CAN ANYONE CONFIRM OR DENY?!?!?

Episode 1 Spoilers Below ********************

I just heard that too. Which is too bad, because I also didn't like Episode 1 much. I've been playing Portal a lot, so I still haven't dived into Episode 2, but if the people who didn't like Episode 1 are lumping Episode 2 with it, that's definitely not a good sign. I just don't understand the people who say Episode 1 was like Half Life 2 condensed to only the good parts. I admit, the second half of Episode 1 was good once you get to the surface of the city, but the citadel sequence with the uber gravity gun, and the dark zombine tunnels filled with antlions all just felt like contrived bullshit to me. The kind that we saw some of in Gearbox's Opposing Forces expansion pack to the original Half Life. I wasn't expecting that kind of output from Valve.

But I guess maybe it's not that common a reaction judging from reactions here. Qt3 seems to be divided mostly into people who don't like any incarnation of HL2 (which I don't understand, since I think HL2 was brilliant) but worship HL1. And then there are those who did like HL2, and thought Episode 1 was even better than HL2 because it was distilled down to the good parts (which I don't understand because of the reasons above).

I guess this is a symptom of the variety in Half Life 2's gameplay. The game was so diverse in its gameplay elements that there are bound to be lots of people who didn't enjoy certain aspects of it as much as others. And I guess if you "distill" certain aspects of a game down to what is Episode 1, you're bound to disappoint some people while making others exclaim that its even better than the original.

wisefool

10-18-2007, 09:39 AM

Rock8man

10-18-2007, 09:40 AM

Are you serious???? I mean shit, the only series that wasn't really shown in order was the Star Wars series, and even that went in order of the numbers.
If you have to ask this sort of question you should head back to elementary school and pay attention.

Well, to be fair to the original poster, If you didn't know anything about the Half Life series, which one would you think came first? Half Life 2, or Half Life 2: Episodes 1/2? Seriously? There's no clue in those names. In fact, if I were to guess purely on the names, I'd have guessed that Half Life 2: Episodes 1 and 2 were probably prequels to Half Life 2. But they're not.

Brakara

10-18-2007, 09:46 AM

Portal has no spoilers for HL2/ep1/ep2. Play it first, it's short and awesome.

Ah, cool. Thanks!

tromik

10-18-2007, 09:47 AM

I started with Portal, and then when I got stuck or a bit bored, I'd load up HL2. Then when I'd get tired I'd load up Portal. I played for about six hours straight the first night I got La Boite Orange (wtf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:The_Orange_Box#La_Bo.C3.AEte_Orange_section_r emoved) is up with that (http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2007/10/12/is-it-the-orange-box-non-cest-la-boite-orange/), btw?), which is the longest single player gaming session I've played in years.

ProStyle

10-18-2007, 09:51 AM

I guess I should have asked what's worth playing.

Portal and TF2, the rest is filler.

The question itself is highly subjective, with any purchase you should enjoy the majority of the product, the portions you do not consume are effectively "worthless" to you.

Zylon

10-18-2007, 10:03 AM

Computer games aren't like chess, they go stale, lose servers and playerbase. Ahem. Surely you meant to say "Online games" there.

stusser

10-18-2007, 10:11 AM

Most online games peter out, yes. Somehow I think TF2 is one of the very few that will still have a strong playerbase a year from now.

Charles

10-18-2007, 10:11 AM

Episode 1 Spoilers Below ********************

I just heard that too. Which is too bad, because I also didn't like Episode 1 much. I've been playing Portal a lot, so I still haven't dived into Episode 2, but if the people who didn't like Episode 1 are lumping Episode 2 with it, that's definitely not a good sign. I just don't understand the people who say Episode 1 was like Half Life 2 condensed to only the good parts. I admit, the second half of Episode 1 was good once you get to the surface of the city, but the citadel sequence with the uber gravity gun, and the dark zombine tunnels filled with antlions all just felt like contrived bullshit to me. The kind that we saw some of in Gearbox's Opposing Forces expansion pack to the original Half Life. I wasn't expecting that kind of output from Valve.

Well, everything I hated about Ep1 is back in full force in Ep2. Oh, and if you didn't like antlions, Ep2 is definitely not for you.

Things I didn't like about Episode 1 was that it was especially reinforced how linear and scripted it was. It was obvious at times that you had to go through this window, but gasp, you couldn't break it. Then you walk to the dead end and smash! Zombies through the window!

Ep2 is more of the same. I can see what's going to happen long before it happens because of the obsessively controlling level design coupled with pretty obvious situations. On top of that, every time there's weak level design, the NPCs now crack jokes about it. I'm sure it's some designer believing they were clever, but it just reinforces to me how stupid the game is. You hit these doors that only your side kick can open, and he says "It is a shame that you can't open these yourself!" YES IT IS. You watch a boring and uninteresting cutscene where the NPCs very specifically spell out what you have to do -- which you already figured out before the cutscene even started -- and then there's this five second pause after they finish before Alyx says "Oh, I guess I have to open that door for you! Tee hee!"

It's just bullshit and I find the level design and scripted sequences boring enough that having NPCs crack jokes about it just makes me want to punch the designers in the face.

And it gets even more annoying than that. Having the NPCs *constantly* heap praise on you for figuring out a puzzle that only takes two brain cells to figure out drives me batty. "Ahhh! Freeman is good at these kind of puzzles!" "I knew you'd find a way!"

Episode 1 I didn't like much. Episode 2 is slowly pushing me towards hating the series completely. The only reason I'm pressing on is hoping that glados becomes a major player later.

fuzzyslug

10-18-2007, 10:13 AM

Well, I phrased the question poorly. I guess I should have asked what's worth playing. For example, if I wouldn't recommend a friend go try BF1942 instead of BF2. Computer games aren't like chess, they go stale, lose servers and playerbase.

Portal it is, then.

All of the Orange Box games are well worth playing - every single one of them. The Half-life games are some of the best games available. This includes #1, which doesn't come on the disc. TF2 and Poral are great additions to the package. Play them all.

Iron Xides

10-18-2007, 10:13 AM

Play Half-Life 2 until you get fatigue, and then try out TF2 or Portal, and then go back to Half-Life 2 when you get bored with that. And play HL2->EP1->EP2 in that order.

Kevin Grey

10-18-2007, 10:21 AM

I've seen numerous people who didn't care for Episode 1 love Episode 2, including some saying that it's the best Half Life product yet released.

Rock8man

10-18-2007, 10:27 AM

Well, everything I hated about Ep1 is back in full force in Ep2. Oh, and if you didn't like antlions, Ep2 is definitely not for you.

Things I didn't like about Episode 1 was that it was especially reinforced how linear and scripted it was. It was obvious at times that you had to go through this window, but gasp, you couldn't break it. Then you walk to the dead end and smash! Zombies through the window!

Ep2 is more of the same.

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean about Episode 1. Like when those uber-combine soldiers are crossing the bridge and running toward you, and all you've got is a gravity gun, and they've given you no debris to work with. Come on! You know that something will happen to those guys before they get to you, since you can't fight back!

But at least it doesn't sound like they descended into Half Life: Opposing Force territory yet. The guys at Gearbox seemed determined to expose all the flaws in the Half Life engine, including saddling you with NPCs that repeatedly said the same three phrases over and over and over every 5 seconds until you wanted to shoot them yourself. And even more stupid linear sequences like getting stuck in a room full of acid where the acid level starts rising and you have no escape. Cue the falling platform that makes a makeshift bridge at the last second so you can escape.

At least from what I hear about Episode 2, the NPCs don't repeat themselves incessantly. Making smart-aleck remarks about the linear game design at least sounds a lot better than NPCs reinforcing every few seconds that they are brain-dead.

ProStyle

10-18-2007, 10:44 AM

You watch a boring and uninteresting cutscene where the NPCs very specifically spell out what you have to do -- which you already figured out before the cutscene even started...

Yeah, this really turned me off on HL2... haven't bothered with either episode.

I'm wondering, did they retain the mechanic where Gordon still free roams during cutscenes? I seemed to recall in HL2 the equivalant to cutscenes was simply huge dialog expositions between a handful of NPC's standing around in a circle at some destination that was supposed to be pivotal to the story.

The thing is, nothing ever happened during these moments... so invariably you'd just fuck around, try to crowbar them in the face, push shit off tables, etc... it's funny because it seems designed to provide dramatic edge, something to bring you into the story... but as far as "cut scenes" go they don't communicate anything besides tedious dialog. To advanced players, they are little more than stopgaps between set designs and serve only to slow you down and waste your time.

Look at the scenes in Gears and Halo, control is taken away and the avatar is plunged into some chaotic moment in time. A huge battle that is larger than those you are allowed to play, very overly cinematic angles and animation, a big ass space ship tearing away from some big ass explosion, etc... I simply don't recall anything like that in the HL series - well, except maybe the end with the Citadel crashing down, and even then I don't recall any details. Did they change much of that in EP2?

AndrewM

10-18-2007, 10:56 AM

And it gets even more annoying than that. Having the NPCs *constantly* heap praise on you for figuring out a puzzle that only takes two brain cells to figure out drives me batty. "Ahhh! Freeman is good at these kind of puzzles!" "I knew you'd find a way!"

Maybe HL2 is set in the future of Idiocracy, where intelligence has been bred out of the population. Only you, a traveller from the past, can save them from themselves. Maybe imagining your sidekicks as being of very low IQ will help you get through it. "Gatorade: it's what plants crave!"

scharmers

10-18-2007, 11:00 AM

Or maybe you're all a bunch of jaded dimwits who need to do something other than play shooters for a while. Or maybe you need to play *bad* shooters, just to bring you back to reality. I have a copy of Mortyr or one of Techland's magnus opuses around here somewhere...

CheesyPoof

10-18-2007, 11:10 AM

HEY I HEARD THAT CHARLES DOESN'T LIKE EP 1 OR 2, CAN ANYONE CONFIRM OR DENY?!?!?
Don't tell me Charles is the new Bob?

ProStyle

10-18-2007, 11:11 AM

Or maybe you're all a bunch of jaded dimwits...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/scharmers/1185211630-1175943374630.jpg

shang

10-18-2007, 11:26 AM

I've been trying to play through HL2 since I bought the Orange Box for TF2 and Portal, but it's difficult to stay interested. There's been hardly any coherent story so far. The game begins as you apparently teleport into a train somehow and it comes clear from NPC dialog they you've been missing somewhere, but still nobody seems to question where you were and why and how you returned. Also, the NPCs seem to assume that Gordon already knows everything about the Combine and all world events despite being missing. They never tell him anything about what has happened. And Gordon being the mute he is is apparently unable to ask anyone why the hell Earth is crawling with headcrabs and vortigons and whatnot.

Ravenholm was nicely athmospheric and the gravity gun was a nice change, but other than that, the actual shooting parts have been very basic and uninteresting. The weapons feel weak. You can empty half a pistol clip into a Combine guard (while he doesn't even flinch) in the harder difficulty levels and even in the easiest level, they can survive two direct head shots. I'm tempted to play the whole game in the easiest level just so that the weapons would at least have some punch.

The level design is blatantly linear. It doesn't help that they try to mask this with maze-like layouts and dozens of fake, locked doors and each map seems to become a hunt for some elusive piece of ladder or hole in a fence so that you can continue onwards in the corridor.

HL1 worked because the setting supported corridor levels and the scripted sequences were a lot more imaginative (or maybe it's just my memory). Also, there was a lot less NPC interaction, most of which is rather bad in HL2.

Talisker

10-18-2007, 11:56 AM

On top of that, every time there's weak level design, the NPCs now crack jokes about it. I'm sure it's some designer believing they were clever, but it just reinforces to me how stupid the game is.
Is there some sort of flashlight mod I can get for Ep1?

"We really need to talk to Dr. Kleiner about getting a new battery for that flashlight."

Charles

10-18-2007, 11:58 AM

The level design is blatantly linear. It doesn't help that they try to mask this with maze-like layouts and dozens of fake, locked doors and each map seems to become a hunt for some elusive piece of ladder or hole in a fence so that you can continue onwards in the corridor.

There should be a design rule, that says no doors that you can't open.

Seriously. I have a magical portable pocket that can hold 10 weapons. I have grenades, shotguns, missile launchers, automatic weapon. But if a door is locked, that's it! Sorry!

Wholly Schmidt

10-18-2007, 12:21 PM

Why doesn't anyone give me one of those magic sparky-keys that opens all the combine doors, the one Alyx carries around?

shang

10-18-2007, 12:22 PM

Oh, and another thing I really dislike in HL2 are the loading pauses in the middle of areas. There should really be some sort of streaming support in the engine, or they should at least try to segment the areas differently to mitigate it.

LesJarvis

10-18-2007, 12:23 PM

Yeah, HL2 would be way better if you had to wander around for hours opening all the doors to find out which ones were relevant.

Alternately:

Yeah, HL2 would be way better if there were no doors in the entire world except he ones you could go in. After all, it's not like buildings have a lot of doors in them.

Charles

10-18-2007, 12:26 PM

LesJarvis

10-18-2007, 12:27 PM

As long as there are hundreds of doors I have to open.

Charles

10-18-2007, 12:32 PM

As long as there are hundreds of doors I have to open.

You go ahead and enjoy your well-honed brain-free experience. I won't stop you. Just don't expect me to like it.

LesJarvis

10-18-2007, 12:36 PM

I guess picking a corridor is the height of choice-driven gameplay. Can I assume that AC is going to feature tons of quality door-opening, brain-requiring gameplay? I'm not sure I can handle that.

WarrenM

10-18-2007, 12:36 PM

Seriously. I have a magical portable pocket that can hold 10 weapons. I have grenades, shotguns, missile launchers, automatic weapon. But if a door is locked, that's it! Sorry!
You're really setting yourself up for abuse on AC, Charles. The first time someone is confronted with a situation where they can't do what they logically want to, this will all come back in spades. Heh.

I want the option to kill anyone who talks to me in the game since I'm carrying a blade. And I want the game to react to that properly and not force me to reload. Make it so!

Charles

10-18-2007, 12:38 PM

Right, I forgot. People aren't allowed to criticize games on the internet.

bigdruid

10-18-2007, 12:42 PM

The best thing about Orange Box is we get to read people's reviews of HL2 4 years after its original release.

but as far as "cut scenes" go they don't communicate anything besides tedious dialog. To advanced players, they are little more than stopgaps between set designs and serve only to slow you down and waste your time.

Yeah, "advanced players" don't need any plot exposition - they just want to know what their next objective is so they can blast through the game.

I enjoyed Ep1, but mainly because my tolerance for linear shooters is about 5-10 hours these days, so I like the shorter play time. Having played through both Bioshock and STALKER recently, it'll be interesting to see how Ep 2 holds up for me.

WarrenM

10-18-2007, 12:43 PM

Right, I forgot. People aren't allowed to criticize games on the internet.
It's only natural. If you're going to bash a game with such a huge fan base, it's logical that those same people are going to come back to you when your game ships and doesn't address any of the things you were preaching from your soap box. *shrug*

Charles

10-18-2007, 12:48 PM

It's only natural. If you're going to bash a game with such a huge fan base, it's logical that those same people are going to come back to you when your game ships and doesn't address any of the things you were preaching from your soap box. *shrug*

And we all know only a single person makes a game.

Oh, and really, as far as I'm concerned, people can say and critique anything they want about any game I've worked on. Chances are in most cases I'll agree with them. Not sure how that'll mesh with your strange view that I'll suddenly develop some radical double standard.

WarrenM

10-18-2007, 12:53 PM

And we all know only a single person makes a game.

Oh, and really, as far as I'm concerned, people can say and critique anything they want about any game I've worked on. Chances are in most cases I'll agree with them. Not sure how that'll mesh with your strange view that I'll suddenly develop some radical double standard.
Hey, I've been through it. I've lost count of the number times that I, personally, was blamed for all of Wheel of Time.

I'm just saying that you're talking a lot of shit and if AC doesn't address any of it, be prepared for backlash.

Charles

10-18-2007, 12:54 PM

Hey, I've been through it. I've lost count of the number times that I, personally, was blamed for all of Wheel of Time.

I'm just saying that you're talking a lot of shit and if AC doesn't address any of it, be prepared for backlash.

Yeah well, you won't be stuck in a tunnel in AC. So consider it addressed.

Unicorn McGriddle

10-18-2007, 12:54 PM

Play Portal first. Then determine whether you want to play a single-player FPS (Half-Life 2, followed by the Episodes) or a multi-player FPS (TF2). Revise this decision as necessary.

I'm slowly playing my way through Half-Life 2 for the first time. The thing to remember about the automatic pistol is that there are two ways to use it effectively: as a poor man's sniper weapon (because FPS cliche law dictates that light pistols are more accurate than rifles), or as a time trial where you score points based on how fast you empty the clip. In the first role, it can be used to modest effect at long range, and in the second, it can be used to modest effect at short range, but it is a very poor mid-range weapon, especially against targets that move around and use cover the way Overwatch/NP Guards/etc. do.

Here's how I try to deal with those guys:

Long range, stationary: crossbow, magnum, automatic if no ammo for the others
Long range, movement: bugbait if feasible, crossbow or magnum if feasible, otherwise get closer
Medium range: pulse rifle, magnum, SMG, shotgun if you can afford to use the ammo in sub-optimal situations
Medium range, tight group: grenade, SMG alt-fire, pulse rifle alt-fire
Short range: shotgun, magnum, pulse rifle, SMG, crowbar, possibly the automatic

A few things I've noticed:
- The magnum is an all-purpose weapon. It can fill any role. But it's also easy to exhaust its meager maximum ammo.
- A good grenade is almost magical in terms of how much ammo and health it can save. But watch out for the blast radius, because your own grenades will hurt you far worse than the enemy's.
- The SMG can handle most immediate threats, albeit poorly, and ammunition for it is often plentiful. (During Highway 17, you have access to a literally unlimited supply.) Its alt-fire is a great emergency option. It is the best firearm for killing headcrabs.
- The shotgun is fairly effective at medium range, but really shines at close range, where decent headshots make its six-shot capacity a promise of five or six dead guys.
- Never underestimate the crowbar.
- You can't count on having good throwables for the gravity gun. This ain't Bioshock.
- The crossbow's not really as good for sniping as the magnum, but you'll use it anyway because it doesn't have any other applications and magnum bullets are too precious. On the bright side, even a body hit with the crossbow seems to be a killer.
- The automatic has a fair amount of ammo and is accurate, but doesn't do very impressive damage. It's good for shooting at your leisure (i.e., when stuff can't get to you, like barnacles), for killing headcrabs at mid-range, for blowing up exploding barrels, for sniping (aim for the head and expect to need a lot of shots), and (with the fastest rate of fire you can manage) as an emergency close-range weapon.

Bill Dungsroman

10-18-2007, 12:55 PM

Don't tell me Charles is the new Bob?
No, that's wumpus.

ProStyle

10-18-2007, 01:00 PM

Yeah, "advanced players" don't need any plot exposition - they just want to know what their next objective is so they can blast through the game.
I was making the reference in the context of gameplay, and I fail to see how it doesn't apply. I wasn't inferring that the more advanced players don't care about the plot, I was illustrating how stopping all relative gameplay so Gordon can listen in on a round table discussion is boring and has nothing to do with some of the best strengths of HL1.

In HL1 you'd come across scripted events, but they were designed to seem "sporadic" like an elevator crash, a scientist getting sucked through the ceiling or pounced by a headcrab in a strobe-lit room; all of this was built around the concept of the facility being invaded, the cascade, etc.

You didn't walk into a room full of scientists that said "Oh, well this happened and now that happened and now here, take this GravGun and go do this" - that was at the beginning of the game, in the introduction when you were required to manipulate the element into the machinery array. Compared to Quake 2 this was pretty "involved" story telling.

I don't recall anything like that used as a device to set up new gameplay elements or explain the plot further, and that's all I have seen in HL2. It seems to have devolved into a matter of presentation over substance.

Also, I don't think it's fair to rag on Charles criticisms simply because he works on games. I've seen individuals on this board question the "validity" and "qualifications" of others opinions because they aren't involved with the industry, in production or as a game reviewer. You can't have it both ways, an opinion is just that and needs no relative qualification with internet credentials.

Rock8man

10-18-2007, 01:04 PM

- The magnum is an all-purpose weapon. It can fill any role. But it's also easy to exhaust its meager maximum ammo.

Heheh. I always got a kick out of the fact that the Magnum is Half Life's equivalent of the BFG. It's good at long range, medium range, short range, its good for bosses, its good for grunts, its a get out of jail free card basically.

That's why I only use the Magnum in emergencies. If I'm ever in a situation where I'm overwhelmed, I bring out the magnum for those guaranteed one-shot kills.

As long as there are hundreds of doors I have to open.

I have to agree in this situation that in most of the linear, event driven gameplay that the Half Life series excels at, it wouldn't be advantageous to gameplay to just let the player open every door, especially if there's not much in those rooms.

Of course, I think what Charles is asking for isn't just that you be able to open the doors, but for the game not to be so blatantly linear. I have to agree with the blatant part, but I do think the Half Life series has made its bread and butter from being a linear event-driven shooter, and they're some of the best at doing this kind of thing. I just also agree with Charles that in Episode 1 they were perhaps more blatant about it, and a little sloppy as compared to their previous efforts.

I don't really want the Half Life series to stop being about linear story-telling, so I agree with LesJarvis that adding any half-assed attempts at multiple paths and non-linearity would actually take away from what the series is good at.

Charles

10-18-2007, 01:05 PM

On the note of advanced players --

At the very least it would be nice to have a bit of branching in the cutscenes. I see some plugs, I see some equipment not working, why can't I fix it while the exposition happens? Doesn't mean I'm not paying attention, it just means I'm rewarding myself by paying attention.

Instead, I have to wait till the exposition is done, then wait for alyx to use the climb ability that's apparently not possible for me in my power suit (god but that would be a nice addition to HL gameplay), just so that she can joke about not knowing how she fixed it, when all I needed to wait for was the scene to unlock the missing plug that I knew was there.

It's the obsessive and oppressive game design that drives me up the walls. I understand developers wanting players to see the narrative, it's something that almost every single game struggles with. But that doesn't mean you can needlessly retard the player with impunity. Allowing the player to feel clever and get things done faster is something that just about any player (even Les "I have sex with half life 2 I love it so much" Jarvis) can appreciate. It would make the experience better.

But they don't do it. Because they are stuck thinking the same way about things and don't actually try and improve their formula.

Don't get me wrong. Their fine tuned experience prints them money, and that's cool. I just don't think having a machine that prints money means you should neglect it and assume it can't get any better.

But hey, that's just me, a grunt programmer.

WarrenM

10-18-2007, 01:07 PM

Also, I don't think it's fair to rag on Charles criticisms simply because he works on games. I've seen individuals on this board question the "validity" and "qualifications" of others opinions because they aren't involved with the industry, in production or as a game reviewer. You can't have it both ways, an opinion is just that and needs no relative qualification with internet credentials.
I agree to an extent but then there's a side of me that doesn't. (analogy alert) It's like a cook saying, "That other restaurant always burns their steaks! It's ridiculous! BTW, we burned your steak but, whatever, it isn't like I was the only one responsible for it."

Besides, Charles's criticisms would be fine if he didn't belittle and deride anyone who disagreed with them.

Quaro

10-18-2007, 01:08 PM

The level design is blatantly linear. It doesn't help that they try to mask this with maze-like layouts and dozens of fake, locked doors and each map seems to become a hunt for some elusive piece of ladder or hole in a fence so that you can continue onwards in the corridor.

Yeah, HL2 would be way better if you had to wander around for hours opening all the doors to find out which ones were relevant.

Alternately:

Yeah, HL2 would be way better if there were no doors in the entire world except he ones you could go in. After all, it's not like buildings have a lot of doors in them.

It would be more like Stalker or Crysis, lots of doors, most of them work, one objective with a lot of ways to get to it.

Charles

10-18-2007, 01:09 PM

Besides, Charles's criticisms would be fine if he didn't belittle and deride anyone who disagreed with them.

And where exactly did I do that? Are you talking about the brain-free comment? That wasn't an insult against any player, just the game design.

WarrenM

10-18-2007, 01:10 PM

just about any player (even Les "I have sex with half life 2 I love it so much" Jarvis) can appreciate.
*ahem*

Charles

10-18-2007, 01:13 PM

*ahem*

Oh screw you. We're all crappers here. That's just par for the course. It's a friendly ribbing. If Les thinks it's a giant insult instead of a joke then I'll edit it out.

LesJarvis

10-18-2007, 01:14 PM

I was pretty sure you were humping your Deus Ex CD when you wrote that anyway.

Charles

10-18-2007, 01:14 PM

I was pretty sure you were humping your Deus Ex CD when you wrote that anyway.

It's true, I store it in my pants.

Kevin Grey

10-18-2007, 01:49 PM

It would be more like Stalker or Crysis, lots of doors, most of them work, one objective with a lot of ways to get to it.

I liked Stalker and I liked Far Cry (haven't played any of Crysis yet) but I don't need HL to mimic them. They all use perfectly valid yet different approaches to the genre.

This whole thing reminds me of all of the "After Gears and Rainbow 6 I just can't play a shooter without a cover system" comments from last year. I enjoy the slower paced, more tactical shooters as much as anyone but it doesn't mean that I can't enjoy a well done run and gun shooter like Half Life or Resistance.

Shooters, first and third person, are pretty much the majority of games these days so I don't see why there isn't plenty of room for multiple styles of play within the genre.

scharmers

10-18-2007, 01:59 PM

It's true, I store it in my pants.

Hey man, who doesn't??

Coca Cola Zero

10-18-2007, 02:08 PM

If you're going to play all of HL2, Ep1, and Ep2, you should play them in their natural order, but you really might want to consider taking a long break between plays because otherwise you are likely to get burned out. The Episodes are decent experiences but they are ultimately pretty much more of the same and even reuse lots of ideas and set pieces, as noted in the Zeropunctuation review. This isn't too bad if you're playing them a year apart from each other but is horribly obvious if you try to stack them in one long playthrough.

CheesyPoof

10-18-2007, 02:21 PM

Oh screw you. We're all crappers here. That's just par for the course. It's a friendly ribbing. If Les thinks it's a giant insult instead of a joke then I'll edit it out.
No, not anymore you aren't.

CheesyPoof

10-18-2007, 02:23 PM

The best thing about Orange Box is we get to read people's reviews of HL2 4 years after its original release.
I think the reason most people haven't played it is because they weren't interested in it. I know I wasn't. I bough the OB for TF2, thought Portal would be neat (exceeded expectations) and I would finally play HL2 after all these years.

Charles

10-18-2007, 02:36 PM

No, not anymore you aren't.

Yeah well, if I could post from work it might be worth posting there but I can't. So nyaaah. But I'm still in IRC all the time. So screw you!

armand v

06-29-2009, 08:53 AM

RickH

06-29-2009, 09:15 AM

Now 15min into Half Life2 and I'm finding it super boring. Should I just quit while I'm ahead?

Give it another hour or so, the beginning is pretty exposition-heavy. There are some really nice FPS set-pieces in the series, and the story and characters develop in interesting ways.

How about Team Fortress? I'm years behind, can I ever catch up to the other players, make a game of it and have fun?

You didn't say whether you were playing 360 or PC, if PC, jump in there and learn the maps. The learning curve is not steep. If you don't know what class to play, everybody loves a medic.

If 360, I don't know if anybody is still playing.

Zylon

06-29-2009, 09:35 AM

Sweet zombie christ holy mega-bump.

Is it deeply messed up that there's apparently going to be less time passed between Left4Dead and Left4Dead 2 then there is between Episode 2 and Episode 3? Is Valve even working on Ep3?

Tim James

06-29-2009, 09:43 AM

Portal is complete, great game. Now 15min into Half Life2 and I'm finding it super boring. Should I just quit while I'm ahead?Half-Life 2 is a very long shooter with a few poorly-paced dull parts here and there. Gotta remember it came out 5 years ago when they still did stuff like that.

You ought to play it but ask yourself now if you can stick to it.

CLWheeljack

06-29-2009, 09:53 AM

~bump~

Portal is complete, great game. Now 15min into Half Life2 and I'm finding it super boring. Should I just quit while I'm ahead?

How about Team Fortress? I'm years behind, can I ever catch up to the other players, make a game of it and have fun?

thank you

See the TF2 Official Unofficial Thread. Basically, Yes, you can join in and get up to speed pretty quickly. They have frequent new influxes of players (due to the free DLC updates). There are some elements in place to make the game easier to pick up, and there are enough different classes that every player can find something that caters to their play style.

Paul_cze

06-29-2009, 10:09 AM

Wow, eventhough it is an old thread I am amazed how many people here did not like (or even hated) HL series (or even just HL2+). Well I for one love the whole series, entertaining gameplay, very nice design (HL1 functional gameplay standpoint, HL 2 estetic standpoint), decent story..

Plus, I love those badass moments when I go and suddenly that awesome Kelly Bailey music starts playing and I feel like the greatest badass ever...

Vortal Combat anyone? CP Violation? Freaking amazing songs and thus game atmosphere. I can not wait to play Black Mesa Source, followed by Opposing Force and Blue Shift (yeah, I even liked those), then followed by HL2 + ep1-3..that is going to be one epic ride.

Just for the record, I also have Deus Ex dvd constantly in my pants and love the hell out of it (looking forward to my fourth playthrough).

Hunty

06-29-2009, 10:23 AM

Just for the record, I also have Deus Ex dvd constantly in my pants and love the hell out of it (looking forward to my fourth playthrough).

Is this intentional, or the greatest Freudian slip ever?

bandidoquest

06-29-2009, 12:08 PM

How about Team Fortress? I'm years behind, can I ever catch up to the other players, make a game of it and have fun?

Yes, you can. I started playing Team Fortress 2 recently and it's totally worth even if it's been released almost 2 years ago. As others have said, it has a gentle learning curve and there are many classes that really play differently from each other, so you'll probably find at least one that'll suit you.

John Many Jars

06-29-2009, 12:17 PM

beloved one

06-29-2009, 12:18 PM

I too got bored of ep2 pretty quickly. About 15 minutes in I decided to play a bit more even though I was kinda bored... I played until the part with the little auto fire drones (which was pretty fun), then decided it was just too slow for my tastes. I quit the previous one after that stupid vehicular section. I've never understood what people saw in the series...

That being said, I'd also like to say that TF2 is very accessible, and you're not appreciably worse off than you were on day 1 (when you could be scared of playing people that spent the last 10 years playing deathmatch and whatnot).

Paul_cze

06-29-2009, 12:45 PM

Is this intentional, or the greatest Freudian slip ever?
heh : )

armand v

06-29-2009, 01:46 PM

Thanks for the tips everyone.

I am playing the 360 version, I forgot to mention that.

I guess I'll try HL2 a little more see if I like it enough, but I'm beginning to itch for that Portal DLC...

Tim James

06-29-2009, 01:59 PM

HEAR HEAR!John, don't be the guy that tries to recharge the 2-year-old flame war after bumping for unrelated questions. :)

Greatatlantic

06-29-2009, 10:10 PM

~bump~

Portal is complete, great game. Now 15min into Half Life2 and I'm finding it super boring. Should I just quit while I'm ahead?

15 minutes and you're asking other people if you should quit? Most games that won't even get you out of the tutorial section, and probably won't get you your first weapon in HL2. The game is pretty slow paced with some vehicle sections that overstay their welcome. That being said, its got some great environments, some well done physics puzzles, and some good firefights. In the end, not the transcendent experience of portal, but a very solid FPS that in my opinion holds up well today.

How about Team Fortress? I'm years behind, can I ever catch up to the other players, make a game of it and have fun?

thank you

The best way to contribute to your team in Team Fortress 2 no matter how bad your skill level: play a medic. Honestly, don't worry to much about skill level when playing as your team mates will be there to help you. If nothing else, play Engineer. Then, its just a matter of bulding guns around corners, hiding behind them, and wacking them with a wrench to keep them healthy. Its somehow become my second most played class after Sniper.

CLWheeljack

06-30-2009, 01:36 PM

If nothing else, play Engineer. Then, its just a matter of bulding guns around corners, hiding behind them, and wacking them with a wrench to keep them healthy. Its somehow become my second most played class after Sniper.

I think this is terrible advice. Engineer is one of the most geography dependent classes in the game (probably after Sniper and Spy), and would be really hard to use as a beginner. Also, because Spies target Engies disproportionately, you'd find yourself dying for no obvious reason more often than usual. Also, if you're playing Engineer the way you describe, you're camping one place, so you're not learning the map, and you'll be just as lost as ever when you do decide to move on to another class.

Definitely play Medic as a beginner, for reasons I've described in the main TF2 thread, but engineer should wait until you have more familiarity with the levels.