Bags with sauwastika pulled

[Dirt]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070921/od_nm/zara_swastikas_dc

I think pulling the handbags is a violation of freedom of religion myself.

[Phil_Stein]

A private business can't decide to not sell a particular item without it being a violation of religious freedom?

Err, whatever...

[Stroker Ace]

Your troll-fu is weak.

[Dirt]

This is just harkens back to the debacle with Target where a Chinese guy made t-shirts with the numbers 888 on it. The Chinese word for 8 is similar sounding to "good fortune" and is often used interchangeably in pop-culture. Of course, the Jews decided that it was actually a facist symbol. The Chinese guy was ruined. They're bending in the face of ignorance.

[Stroker Ace]

If by ignorance you mean regional cultural realities, then yes. We don't force Hello Kitty down your Japan-hating throat, now do we?

[Dirt]

If by ignorance you mean regional cultural realities, then yes. We don't force Hello Kitty down your Japan-hating throat, now do we?
No, but Christianity has been forced down everybody's throat. It didn't work in China, at least not to the degree of everywhere else (the Heavenly Empire of Great Peace lost that war). I guess they're just ignorant as to regional cultural realities. Not to mention Islam. They got the whole Jesus is only a prophet thing all wrong.

[Stroker Ace]

My bad, I'll call off my christian watchdogs.

[Stroker Ace]

Seriously, this is a tiny stylistic swastika on a purse, not religious oppression.

[Hetzer]

Seriously, this is a tiny stylistic swastika on a purse, not religious oppression.


More propably than not it isnt even the swastika but the other one that is going from right to left...

[Alan Au]

I'm still pissed because the swastika used to be a perfectly good symbol until the Nazis went and ruined it.

- Alan

[Dirt]

I'm still pissed because the swastika used to be a perfectly good symbol until the Nazis went and ruined it.

- Alan
My sentiments exactly.

[Mike O'Malley]

I'm constantly shocked at the spelling errors in thread titles, but this one takes the cake. You read the article and still can't spell "swastika"?

[Raife]

We don't force Hello Kitty down your Japan-hating throat, now do we?

Now there's an awesome idea. Please post either pictures of this event or a YouTube video.

[Dirt]

I'm constantly shocked at the spelling errors in thread titles, but this one takes the cake. You read the article and still can't spell "swastika"?
There is more than one way to spell it. Swastika is the spelling for the one Hitler used (right facing).

[Sarkus]

The funny thing to me is that most of the people that get upset about this kind of thing are, of course, not the people that lived through it. It's ingrained in us that the swastika is an evil symbol.

When I was 8 or 9 years old Star Wars was really huge. My seventy something year old grandmother came to visit and asked me what I wanted for Christmas. When I said I wanted stormtroopers (the action figures) she nearly fainted because that's what Nazi street enforcers were called. My mother had to her it was a movie toy and not something that glorified Hitler.

So here we are sixty plus years after the end of WW2 and it's ok to glorify and play "stormtrooper" because this generation associates it with a popular movie but we still freak out because an ancient symbol of both Christianity and Indian culture was hijacked by a madman for 12 years.

[Damien Neil]

It's easy: Just spend a little time in Japan, and you'll soon associate (left-facing) swastikas with the nearest Buddhist temple rather than goosestepping and silly little mustaches. It surprised me a little bit the first time I picked up a map covered with little swastika symbols. The fifth time, not so much.

[Dirt]

The funny thing to me is that most of the people that get upset about this kind of thing are, of course, not the people that lived through it. It's ingrained in us that the swastika is an evil symbol.

When I was 8 or 9 years old Star Wars was really huge. My seventy something year old grandmother came to visit and asked me what I wanted for Christmas. When I said I wanted stormtroopers (the action figures) she nearly fainted because that's what Nazi street enforcers were called. My mother had to her it was a movie toy and not something that glorified Hitler.

So here we are sixty plus years after the end of WW2 and it's ok to glorify and play "stormtrooper" because this generation associates it with a popular movie but we still freak out because an ancient symbol of both Christianity and Indian culture was hijacked by a madman for 12 years.
Yeah. If someone inverted the cross (something used to represent the devil in some movies I've seen) and commited unspeakable atrocities against people, does that mean we should ban the cross that Jesus was nailed to?


It's easy: Just spend a little time in Japan, and you'll soon associate (left-facing) swastikas with the nearest Buddhist temple rather than goosestepping and silly little mustaches. It surprised me a little bit the first time I picked up a map covered with little swastika symbols. The fifth time, not so much.
It's the same representation in China and Korea. Frankly, the first time I saw the left facing cross was in a Chinese movie with Buddhist monks. I was offended. Then I did some research and figured out the differences.

[Unicorn McGriddle]

If someone inverted the cross (something used to represent the devil in some movies I've seen) and commited unspeakable atrocities against people, does that mean we should ban the cross that Jesus was nailed to?

You've got a point. We need to keep that cross around in case the fucker comes back.

[Marcus]

You know the thing is still used to promote hate.

[Houngan]

You've got a point. We need to keep that cross around in case the fucker comes back.

Bless you, son.

H.

[Sarkus]

You know the thing is still used to promote hate.

So is the Christian cross and the Islamic crescent. What's your point?

[Marcus]

Wow you are out there.

[Sarkus]

Wow you are out there.

Is that seriously your response? You do realize that most skinhead/supremacist groups in the US are linked to radical christian beliefs, right? And obviously we have radical hate groups that have adopted Islam as well.

My point is that just because some people use the swastika as a symbol of hate does not mean it should be banned for legitimate purposes, such as in Japan and India where it has historical cultural value as a symbol of something completely different.

[jpinard]

The funny thing to me is that most of the people that get upset about this kind of thing are, of course, not the people that lived through it. It's ingrained in us that the swastika is an evil symbol.

Maybe part of the reason it STAYS ingrained is because the people who get that tattoo and celebrate it's symbology are KKK, Nazi's and white supremacists. It can't become a "thinkg of the past" if it'd constantly used for continued negativity.

[Tankero]

Telling Kanji apart (which is what the Manji/dancing shiva, etc. is) is not a skill that's widespread in the western world.

[tromik]

My point is that just because some people use the swastika as a symbol of hate does not mean it should be banned for legitimate purposes, such as in Japan and India where it has historical cultural value as a symbol of something completely different.
Was it banned in India or Japan? Sounds like it was banned in the UK, where most people associate it with the, whatchamacallit, Holocaust.

Wait, was it even banned? It sound like the store just pulled it due to a customer complaint.

[John E. Motion]

So here we are sixty plus years after the end of WW2 and it's ok to glorify and play "stormtrooper" because this generation associates it with a popular movie but we still freak out because an ancient symbol of both Christianity and Indian culture was hijacked by a madman for 12 years.
Actually, the swastika was used by a host of German right wing parties before the National Socialists appropriated it. Also the Nazi Party formally adopted the swastika in 1920, so it's 25 years not 12.

[Fugitive]

Was it banned in India or Japan? Sounds like it was banned in the UK, where most people associate it with the, whatchamacallit, Holocaust.

Wait, was it even banned? It sound like the store just pulled it due to a customer complaint.
No ban that I can tell, just a business decision. If you have an item that could offend a lot of your target market, even if it's due to their own ignorance, then it's a bad idea to try and sell it to that market. The store isn't obligated to try and correct their ignorance.

[tromik]

No ban that I can tell, just a business decision. If you have an item that could offend a lot of your target market, even if it's due to their own ignorance, then it's a bad idea to try and sell it to that market. The store isn't obligated to try and correct their ignorance.
No, they aren't. But they'll probably suffer for it.

[Sarkus]

Was it banned in India or Japan? Sounds like it was banned in the UK, where most people associate it with the, whatchamacallit, Holocaust.

Wait, was it even banned? It sound like the store just pulled it due to a customer complaint.

It's banned in Germany and Austria, but no where else. However, as the article cited above makes clear, it get's a reaction in other places where it's not banned.

Due to the migration of people from countries where the swastika is not considered a symbol of evil to places where it is, I think we've reached the point where those that are easily offended by a symbol need to look at the context of how it's used rather than assume it's only used in a hateful way.


Actually, the swastika was used by a host of German right wing parties before the National Socialists appropriated it. Also the Nazi Party formally adopted the swastika in 1920, so it's 25 years not 12.

True. I used the 12 year figure based on the traditional designation of how long Hitler's Third Reich lasted, which was 1933-1945.

[Houngan]

Folks, just so we're on the same page let's remember that there are two swastikas, the ancient Hindu symbol and the Nazi symbol. In case you can't keep them straight, just remember: "Lefty loosey, righty I'll slaughter your entire fucking Jew race you hooknose cocksucker."

H.

[Tankero]

Actually they're both Hindu symbols. They represent the dancing shiva; the Nazis used the 'destroyer' aspect of the symbol.

[John Sansker]

Actually they're both Hindu symbols. They represent the dancing shiva; the Nazis used the 'destroyer' aspect of the symbol.

Actually (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika) it is as old as Hinduism, but not necessarily a strictly Hindu symbol.

[Lurb]

The Navy loves them hindu barracks:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=es&geocode=&q=coronado+navy&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=42.987658,79.101563&ie=UTF8&cd=1&ll=32.676043,-117.157632&spn=0.0014,0.002414&t=h&z=19&om=1

[Fugitive]

The Navy loves them hindu barracks:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=es&geocode=&q=coronado+navy&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=42.987658,79.101563&ie=UTF8&cd=1&ll=32.676043,-117.157632&spn=0.0014,0.002414&t=h&z=19&om=1
Well, *used* to love them... (http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iPkzz-oAGR3SeNsFI_cH-j4mv1Uw)

[Rimbo]

Folks, just so we're on the same page let's remember that there are two swastikas, the ancient Hindu symbol and the Nazi symbol. In case you can't keep them straight, just remember: "Lefty loosey, righty I'll slaughter your entire fucking Jew race you hooknose cocksucker."

H.

It was also a symbol in Navajo culture, called the "rolling logs," and represents the 4 seasons, the 4 winds, etc.

[Dirt]

It was also a symbol in Navajo culture, called the "rolling logs," and represents the 4 seasons, the 4 winds, etc.
Nazi.

[Tankero]

It's also the "Manji", a Chinese ideogram used in Japan as a certain Manga explains.

[Mike O'Malley]

Nice, you've just tied Nazis and the Japanese together via swastikas. Dirt is foaming at the mouth with delight.

[Dirt]

Nice, you've just tied Nazis and the Japanese together via swastikas.
Yeah, we call them the Axis powers.

[Aszurom]

Wait a minute...

it's going to cost the navy $600,000 to put a camo coverage over 4 buildings?

Goddamn, is Haliburton doing this?

I'd say just put some friggin beams across between them, lay some corrugated sheetmetal on it, call it a shade assembly and go have a beer. And spend the other $550,000 on hookers.

[Unicorn McGriddle]

Yeah, we call them the Axis powers.

YOU FORGOT ITALY

Edit: Aszurom, my thoughts exactly. Shit, put the sheet metal on the ground, who the fuck can tell from the air anyway. Make the missing limbs of the square into funny-shaped parking lots. Basketball courts. Anything.

[Flowers]

The whole point of avoiding the swastika is about making sure that Nazis and only Nazis feel comfortable identifying themselves with the swastika, so that when we see the swastika, we can say, "Uh oh, Spaghetti-O's!" It is like if you could convince stupid people to put on dunce caps themselves, so that you know how to handle them before they even get within licking distance. I guess we kind of have that now, with W stickers, but it's not nearly as uniform as I would like it.

I guess some normal people have a limited use for swastika emblazoned items. I, for one, have a swastika armband that I carry around, just in case I accidentally kill someone, I slip one onto their left arm, instant justifiable homicide.

[Charlatan]

Wait a minute...

it's going to cost the navy $600,000 to put a camo coverage over 4 buildings?

Goddamn, is Haliburton doing this?

I'd say just put some friggin beams across between them, lay some corrugated sheetmetal on it, call it a shade assembly and go have a beer. And spend the other $550,000 on hookers.

Dude, that's so what they're doing. You blew their cover.