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hong
09-13-2007, 08:43 AM
Yeah, I'm like 2 years behind the times. With Tom's review of the latest expansion, I decided to check out the original game. First time with an online RPG of any sort, unless you count Counterstrike.

Anyway, I've been online now for 2 hours and am having quite a bit of fun. It actually looks pretty good for a game that came out in 2005. Heck, it looks better than NWN2 in places, and runs much faster than that pig of a game. Now if I could just rid myself of the habit of right-clicking to walk somewhere, I'd be set.

Just some questions:

- How do I find henchmen to recruit? I've got the quest to go find a party member, but don't feel like teaming up with a complete stranger. I haven't had much trouble killing isolated 1st and 2nd level monsters, but a mob is beyond me.

- Where can you buy new stuff? I picked up a longbow from a fight, but otherwise I'm still running around in noob gear.

- Any tips on char builds?

Hawkeye Fierce
09-13-2007, 08:50 AM
- How do I find henchmen to recruit? I've got the quest to go find a party member, but don't feel like teaming up with a complete stranger. I haven't had much trouble killing isolated 1st and 2nd level monsters, but a mob is beyond me.

I'm assuming you've picked up the original Guild Wars, rather than Factions or Nightfall. You have to get past the starting area (which is REALLY large) before you get henchmen. It'll be very obvious when this has happened.


- Where can you buy new stuff? I picked up a longbow from a fight, but otherwise I'm still running around in noob gear.

Don't worry too much about your equipment until you get out of the starting area. Your equipment matters MUCH less in Guild Wars than you may be used to, anyway.


- Any tips on char builds?

Sure, plenty. What class are you? Also, keep in mind that your options for builds are pretty limited early on - you don't have the skills or the attribute points to really play around with things yet. Just try to find decent combos with the skills you've got and wait til things open up a bit.

JPR
09-13-2007, 08:52 AM
For that first mission, you have to team up with a real person. It's the only time that you are ever required by the game to do that.

In the intro area, the best way to get new stuff is from collectors. As you explore, you'll see people around in the wilderness that you can talk to. They will ask you for 5 bear pelts or whatever, and they will trade you weapons, offhands, or armor pieces.

You can change your character build any time you want to (switch skills and change how your points are distributed), so don't worry about it. Do make sure that you try all your available options for secondary classes, though. It will give you a good feeling for how the different classes play.

Heron Prior
09-13-2007, 09:07 AM
I would suggest you check out some of the excellent online resources to get started.

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Main_Page

or

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Main_Page


either should help you quite a bit.

Hawkeye Fierce
09-13-2007, 09:16 AM
For builds, you'll also want this : http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Main_Page

hong
09-13-2007, 09:36 AM
I'm assuming you've picked up the original Guild Wars, rather than Factions or Nightfall. You have to get past the starting area (which is REALLY large) before you get henchmen. It'll be very obvious when this has happened.

Guild Wars Game of the Year Edition, to be precise. So yeah, the original.


Don't worry too much about your equipment until you get out of the starting area. Your equipment matters MUCH less in Guild Wars than you may be used to, anyway.

Cool. It's more of an aesthetic thing, really. I guess I just don't want to be obviously wearing newbie armour in town.


Sure, plenty. What class are you? Also, keep in mind that your options for builds are pretty limited early on - you don't have the skills or the attribute points to really play around with things yet. Just try to find decent combos with the skills you've got and wait til things open up a bit.

Warrior 3, at the moment. Got myself a frenzy stance and a healing signet skill after a quest.

Thanks for the tips and links, everyone!

Balasarius
09-13-2007, 09:51 AM
Until you finish the newbie area, none of the lore and backstory in the manual will make any sense. Don't bother reading it until you've finished the newbie area.

malkav11
09-13-2007, 01:56 PM
Be aware that the henchmen really suck. They start out multiple levels below you and while they can level during your time out in the explorable areas, that doesn't persist once you go back into town. (Or maybe once you log off. They have improved things some since I played Prophecies to any notable degree. That is to say, right around when it came out.) They're single-classed for the most part with a decidedly limited skill set, and I don't think you have any notable degree of control over what they do (though they'll perform the rudimentary functions of their class automatically.). You won't get access to stronger henchmen until later towns and by then you'll still outlevel them significantly. They're practically useless for missions, in particular.

You are, however, probably correct in avoiding grouping with random strangers. Last I checked, the average jackassery level was several notches above that of general chat in WoW. I didn't even think that was possible.

GW is a much better experience with a) friends, and b) heroes (which are in the two most recent expansions). Heroes are persistent henchmen that attach to your character, can be customized nearly to your hearts content (skills, equipment, secondary profession, attribute setup all under your control), and can actually be ordered around. You can even manually trigger their skills, though I don't often find myself needing to.

JPR
09-13-2007, 02:05 PM
I disagree with pretty much everything that malkav said.

While it's true that the henchmen tend to be a level or 3 below you and have pretty limited skillsets, you can get through about 90% of the Prophecies content without grouping with real people at all. Also, the heroes are a major feature in Nightfall, but you do have access to 1 or 2 of them in Prophecies (once you get to Lion's Arch, which is the next major hub town after Ascalon -- it's about 7 missions in).

My experience with random grouping has been mostly pretty positive -- some people are idiots, but until you get to the very end of the game, the missions aren't that hard. Keep in mind that there are qt3 people on occasionally, and the Octopus Overlords guild has a bunch of alright people in it, if you're looking for acquaintances to help you out.

Also, I want to reiterate that in order to get past that one mission in the newbie area that requires you to group, you have to actually group with a random person. It only takes 2 minutes, though. You group up, exit the town, talk to someone standing right outside the door, and that's it. It's just to teach you how to group.

Mark Crump
09-13-2007, 07:37 PM
Nightfall overall is the best of the three.

Grouping is a mixed bag. I had great luck on groups in EotN since it's the new shiny. Grouping in the older games might be more hit or miss as people have moved on.

hong
09-15-2007, 09:39 PM
Well, it's been 3 days now and GW is still holding up. I did all the starter quests (that I could find), and got pwned when I ventured north of the wall. The guy I teamed up with had obviously done this before; he ran straight to the quest objective, and then ran straight back home. Didn't even stop to res me after I got minced by an axe-wielding charr, so I was staring at my corpse for about half a minute before I reappeared in Ascalon. Ah well, I got the quest XP so I guess I can't complain.

The final starter mission was a hoot. I got teamed up with 3 guys whom I'd never met before, and we were thrown into a fight with 4 other complete strangers. Chaotic as hell, and we lost 5-8, but it was fun. I was last man standing on my side, so that's an achievement.

So, I'm now in the ruins of Ascalon with the healer and warrior henchpersons tagging along. I'm 9th level, they're 3rd but holding up very well. I know that without them, I wouldn't survive 10 minutes in the wilderness.

Other than mentioned above, I haven't touched the MP aspects of the game yet: so far, it's been all soloing. In fact, the game might as well not be "massively multiplayer" as far as I'm concerned. There are obviously lots of random people in the towns and outposts, but that's maybe 5% of my gaming time at most. Once I go outside, it's just me and the crickets (and a zillion PC-eating monsters).

I guess because of this, GW keeps reminding me of NWN2 -- but more polished. It looks better than that game, although everything seems to be 50% too big for the people walking around. The NPC noncombat interaction is rather sparse, and the underlying story a bit railroady, but NWN2's SP campaign didn't really do it for me either. At least you don't have to click through reams of pedestrian storytelling to get to the interesting bits. The interface is also easier (and I say this as someone who still hasn't got out of the habit of pressing Space to pause) and there's the big bonus of not having to work around the D&D ruleset.

I also have to give props to Aeon221 for his words of advice and encouragement. Must team up sometime, mang. Speaking of which, I'm Thelisana The White (old BG name) on the American server if anyone would like a game.

SqueakyFoo
09-16-2007, 04:37 AM
I just started playing Nightfall (despite having it for ages). So far, it's held my interest a hell of a lot better than GW (prophecies?) did. Apparently, I'm an officer in the Qt3 guild. I didn't even know I was in the qt3 guild as I stopped playing guild wars years before ever joining these boards.

Nightfall is much more solo friendly than I remember the original campaign being (although I played that way back when it first came out, so things may have changed for that as well). Heroes are awesome, and the henchmen don't suck quite so badly as I remember. I also noticed that when I hit level 7, my 2 henchmen leveled up to 9.

One odd experience I've had already. I noticed this bigass flying thing out in the wilderness of the noob-ish area in Nightfall. It was a level 12, and I've had no problems kicking a group of level 15s asses before so I run up and start spooging it. I take it down to 50% health and it heals to full. So I take it down to 50% health again, and it heals to full. Repeat ad nauseum. I can't kill it as it keeps healing itself and it can't kill me because my healing bitch henchmen is keeping me healed.

I'm playing a Dervish/Elementalist. The AoE spamming is fun.

Mox
09-16-2007, 05:23 AM
I went D/E as well, but frankly the Dervish skill set has the AE damage already covered nicely - low cost PBAoE with conditions, very nice. Aura of Thorns, top notch skill. I'd use the E secondary to use a water magic hex to snare people at range, or PBAoE snare people so they can't just cure the crippled condition and leg it.

Big flying thing eh? Hm, has it got a name? Anyway, if it's healing, interrupt it or penalize it. If you have Acolyte Jin, you can give her Savage Shot or Distracting Shot or something, or you could give Melonni (or possibly even Koss) a secondary Mesmer role and give him Power Spike and things.

Desslock
09-16-2007, 05:33 AM
The original game gets extremely hard to play solo in the last third of the campaign. It may be easier with a pet class, but it was almost impossible when the game was originally released, even when essentially attritioning every kill.

KieronGillen
09-16-2007, 06:19 AM
Nightfall overall is the best of the three.


Quoted to agree. It's clear how much Arenanet learned along the way.

KG

hong
09-16-2007, 06:33 AM
I knew getting cocky was a bad idea. I've been getting my butt kicked in the Breach, against all those charr axe fiends and supporting healers. Time to get an AE guy.

As an aside, I've got the Poisonous Nevermore Flatbow as a bonus item (comes with the GotY Edition). It says it requires 9 Marksmanship, but I've been able to equip it fine even though my skill is only 6. So what does the prereq mean?

Mox
09-16-2007, 06:43 AM
If you don't meet the requirement, the weapon's damage will drop to either 50% (for dropped weapons), or for a weapon from a collector, or a shop, or a quest reqard, it's the starter-level equivalent weapon damage range (1-4 for bows, IIRC?).

Aeon221
09-16-2007, 07:26 AM
Be aware that the henchmen really suck. They start out multiple levels below you and while they can level during your time out in the explorable areas, that doesn't persist once you go back into town. (Or maybe once you log off. They have improved things some since I played Prophecies to any notable degree. That is to say, right around when it came out.) They're single-classed for the most part with a decidedly limited skill set, and I don't think you have any notable degree of control over what they do (though they'll perform the rudimentary functions of their class automatically.). You won't get access to stronger henchmen until later towns and by then you'll still outlevel them significantly. They're practically useless for missions, in particular.


Your experience with henchmen is in no way accurate anymore. In the newest expansion, for instance, all the henchmen are running the very latest pvp inspired builds. I'm so happy with their builds that I feel perfectly confident taking GW:EN's healer henchmen over my heroes. In all versions their AI has been significantly updated, and limited ability to control them has been added.

Most people prefer playing with heroes (ai critters whose skill bars, gear, aggression levels, and placement you control) and henchmen simply because these characters are now well geared out and much smarter than the average puggie.

While henching is also my modus operandi, I prefer to work with pugs as it gives me a chance to help newbies and bring more people to the game. The way I see it, if grouping is always a bad experience, no one will do it and people will leave. So I'm doing my part against that.

Aeon221
09-16-2007, 07:29 AM
This link (http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Requirement) should fully explain hong's question.

hong
09-16-2007, 08:08 AM
"Pugs", heh. Yeah, that explains it nicely, thanks. I've swopped out my useless-for-now bow for another one with a damage bonus vs charr, and picked up Orion the mage henchman. The henchies also all levelled up to 6th when I reached Piken Square, so the combined effect is that I'm now able to hold my own.

Desslock's comment sounds a bit ominous, but I don't think I'll be hitting the end any time soon.

Henry Wilson
09-17-2007, 08:06 AM
My experience with random grouping has been mostly pretty positive -- some people are idiots, but until you get to the very end of the game, the missions aren't that hard. Keep in mind that there are qt3 people on occasionally, and the Octopus Overlords guild has a bunch of alright people in it, if you're looking for acquaintances to help you out.

The OO guild still exists but it's pretty much in name only. Most of the active members migrated to a guild called "Dangerously Incompetent," which has the tag <DUI>. It's an accurate description of our pvp style.

We do seem to be more active than whatever passes for the Qt3 guild, and though we don't actively recruit outside OO (where recruitment is pretty much limited to maintaining an active, ongoing thread, in which someone may post that he's playing and wants an invitation), I'm sure any member of Qt3 would meet our high requirements of no cybering and no leetspeek.

If you want an active guild, pm your character name to me here. I have no idea what my oldest character is on Guild Wars, so I can't say which character of mine to list as a friend, but I generally play as El Burrito Gigante or Polly Morphous.

hong
09-17-2007, 08:49 AM
Came across a rather wacky feature. I had the henchmen at 3rd level, until I went to Piken Square, when they became 6th. Then, when I went back to Ascalon City, they dropped back to 3rd. After I reached Grendich Courthouse, they got bumped to 8th. It looks like the henchman level is set by whichever outpost you recruit them at.

Mox
09-17-2007, 08:52 AM
That's right, and they keep the level you recruited them at through any zones you drag them through that aren't outposts. And I believe they can level up while you're out adventuring. They reset once you lose their services, in any outpost, of course.

Usually, this is helpful. You run out of newbtown with some level 3s, fight through to the next outpost, then after you sell up and move to the next harder area you have some tougher hirelings. It does mean that sometimes you might want to pick up a crew at the "wrong end" of a zone before heading to a quest in there, though.

shang
09-17-2007, 08:53 AM
That's correct. Henchmen are always leveled according to where you start exploring. Heroes are the "permanent" henchmen that accumulate experience with you and can learn new skills etc.

Mordrak
09-17-2007, 09:14 AM
The original game gets extremely hard to play solo in the last third of the campaign. It may be easier with a pet class, but it was almost impossible when the game was originally released, even when essentially attritioning every kill.

Nightfall's getting that way also. I've soloed every mission up until the Gate of Secrets I think, it's the one where you kill Shiro and the Lich. I'm starting to seriously consider grinding out lightbringer levels, but shudder at the thought. Anyway, I think this is the second to last mission, so that's 90% of the missions so far are soloable in Nightfall. Soloing that many does require a bit of patience as there are a few missions that are just throwing yourself against it until you see what you need to do, and then a little bit of luck on top of that. Still, 90% isn't bad. I've only complete 7 or 8 at masters level though.


As for PUGs, the few times I have pugged, I've found them generally nice but unwilling to try missions more than once. That makes learning to work together and the mission kind of hard and led me to reverting to solo attempts. Varesh was like that. Interestingly many I've been in have been comprised of mostly new players.

Mark Crump
09-17-2007, 09:20 AM
As for PUGs, the few times I have pugged, I've found them generally nice but unwilling to try missions more than once. That makes learning to work together and the mission kind of hard and led me to reverting to solo attempts. Varesh was like that. Interestingly many I've been in have been comprised of mostly new players.

I Pugged one mission in Nightfall and the last 3-4 in EotN. I had great luck with them.

Mordrak
09-17-2007, 09:25 AM
I Pugged one mission in Nightfall and the last 3-4 in EotN. I had great luck with them.

Nice, I'm on the edge of hitting EotN (obviously), so that's good to hear.

malkav11
09-17-2007, 02:37 PM
Eye of the North may have better henchmen, but as far as I could tell when I played a bit of Prophecies during Nightfall-grouping downtime, those ones haven't improved in any meaningful way. They'll do if you can't get real people. But on the other hand, I for one wouldn't really want to play the game solo - like most multi-player oriented games, the action isn't that exciting to me solo.

skyride
09-17-2007, 02:44 PM
I have 2 missions left to complete Nightfall and I've done all the missions solo. So I would say the heroes are a huge improvement. I don't think it was possible to solo Prophecies with henchmen (unless I guess you had some cheese build).

Mordrak
09-17-2007, 02:49 PM
I have 2 missions left to complete Nightfall and I've done all the missions solo. So I would say the heroes are a huge improvement. I don't think it was possible to solo Prophecies with henchmen (unless I guess you had some cheese build).
What mission are you on? If you've done Shiro and the Undead Lich (redundant?), what was your build/heroes/henchmen?

I almost did it my last try, but once Shiro gets down to 30% or so he basically chews through my hero tank. I've got 3 healers as well, 2 heroes and a henchmen healer.

Mark Crump, thanks for recommending the Olias hero to me. At least, I think it was you. Even though I didn't get him right away, he's been a boon in this latest mission. Without him (and the additional healer) I wouldn't have even gotten down to just Shiro. :)

skyride
09-17-2007, 03:01 PM
I said Nightfalls not Factions :)

Check guildwiki, for one particular mission in Nightfall, I had to look at their spoiler for help. There are solo tips for most missions.

Mordrak
09-17-2007, 03:05 PM
I said Nightfalls not Factions :)

Check guildwiki, for one particular mission in Nightfall, I had to look at their spoiler for help. There are solo tips for most missions.
Actually, hope this isn't too much of a spoiler, but Shiro is in Nightfall. You'll get there. =P I don't own Factions. Anyway, I've checked the wiki and it's certainly helped, but some things it doesn't address, nor can it, so I was just looking for ideas. No worries though. :)

Mark Crump
09-17-2007, 03:31 PM
Mark Crump, thanks for recommending the Olias hero to me. At least, I think it was you. Even though I didn't get him right away, he's been a boon in this latest mission. Without him (and the additional healer) I wouldn't have even gotten down to just Shiro. :)

He does rock.

AaronSofaer
09-17-2007, 04:58 PM
For the record, I find the most efficient way to go through PvE zones is with a buffed-up melee group.

I was able to solo the vast majority of Hardmode (well, "solo". Heroes and Henchies, obviously) with the basic concept, but certain missions and EAs required a second player and second set of Heroes instead of Henchies.

Shiro's a pain, though. Always was.

Aeon221
09-17-2007, 05:40 PM
I generally run balanced. Two melee, two healers, a support char (rit spirit spammer, mm w/ aegis and convert hexes, ss/ward ele, or DA paragon), a heavy damage char (usually an sh ele) and an interrupter.

This ends up varying a bunch based on which of my 8 chars I'm playing, and where, but I'd say I stick to that 85 percent of the time.

Like I've said a million times, I love helping out and I'm good at kicking ass, so feel free to pm me as Aeon The Piglet.

AaronSofaer
09-17-2007, 05:45 PM
Mixes are good, but I find that in Hard Mode, having some AoE damage thrown into the mix of targeted physical DPS isn't that efficient; between the inevitable healing and regen yada yada it's usually more efficient just to throw in another focus-DPS guy or a healing-reduction guy or something.

Normal mode is different, of course. Normal mode you can run Wandway if you want (incidentally, I'm not kidding, to prove a point I ran through all of Prophecies using only wand damage).

hong
09-18-2007, 11:51 AM
Well, Aeon seemed happy earlier yesterday. :D

Good god, there's a metric shitload of dwarves in Traveler's Vale. Clearing a path from Yak's Bend to Borlis Pass was like a neverending river of blood, some of it mine. Two TPKs, and I reached Borlis Pass as the sole survivor of a 6-member party. Good times.

Aeon221
09-18-2007, 03:01 PM
Yeah, we capped and held halls a few times, so I got all pumped =D

Its nice seeing your guild tag displayed across the known world.

AaronSofaer
09-18-2007, 03:09 PM
Yeah, we capped and held halls a few times, so I got all pumped =D

Its nice seeing your guild tag displayed across the known world.


Grats, dude! What's your tag, and what were you running? Gimme some AARs, I need my HoH-by-proxy fix now that Leeloof and I don't talk as much.

Aeon221
09-18-2007, 04:44 PM
Our tag is PIMP, and we were running heroway (http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_Tainted_Heroway) (I shit you not).

Our build was a fairly standard hero taintway, but with two thumps and one sh instead of three thumps. (for those who don't speak Guild Wars, there's a handy glossary online (http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Category:Glossary)). The heroes were running the tainted warder and the spirit light weap.

Our first match was against a holding team, with the objective of forcing them off the altar. They were holding with spirit way, which was really no match for our build. We shoved them off with plenty of time, and ended up with about double their score for the win.

The next match was a holding versus Ugly. They had taken us out fairly easily in a previous fight because they were running dual Migraine mesmers, and were interrupting me (the sh ele) and our infuser -- destroying a major source of damage and anti spike healing.

This time we focus fired their mesmers to goo with our thumpers before they could do anything, and then stomped them whenever they tried to rez.

We ended up winning flawless. They took it in stride, and I have to say that there is no guild I respect more than Ugly Ducklings [ugly]. They play well, and even when they lose, they do it with class.

Third map, relic run. We beat gank by capping second at the end, but lost to the third team, which capped at the two second mark. Nobody was watching them (either on our side or on gank's side), so they went from zero to 25 real fast.

The best match we played, however, was a relic run on our way to halls. We ended up against xMCx and a couple of Black Parades running some trash build that once again exploited the system (this time a remake of ele ball). We stomped them hard in a relic run, despite their having an absolute advantage in damage (800 damage armor ignoring spikes 0.o). I managed to cap because they didn't take us seriously. No lie, the whole time they were calling us r3 noobs and other lame stuff. Then, when they lost, we trash talked them so hard that half their team raged. It was most excellent.

AaronSofaer
09-18-2007, 05:33 PM
Eewwww, Spirit Light Weapon. Eeewwww.

... I'm such a catasser, oh well.



The next match was a holding versus Ugly. They had taken us out fairly easily in a previous fight because they were running dual Migraine mesmers, and were interrupting me (the sh ele) and our infuser -- destroying a major source of damage and anti spike healing.

This time we focus fired their mesmers to goo with our thumpers before they could do anything, and then stomped them whenever they tried to rez.

We ended up winning flawless. They took it in stride, and I have to say that there is no guild I respect more than Ugly Ducklings [ugly]. They play well, and even when they lose, they do it with class.


Ahahaha, you know what's so funny about this?

I know those guys, play with them all the time, and Rofl logged onto AIM to complain about you guys.

Hilarity.

As you say, though, they have class and they're good players.



xMCx and a couple of Black Parades

There is only one person in Black Paraders that isn't trash, and that's Pheryel, and he's still a total dick.

However, eleballs suck ass at relic runs, for the simple reason that (as I'm sure you demonstrated to them) relics are about running relics, not killing shit.

Incidentally, an 800-damage armor-ignoring spike is weak. Try ritspike pre-nerf, or any of another half-dozen overpowered POS builds that still haven't been nerfed.

hong
09-19-2007, 02:54 AM
Mang, it's like you guys are talking a different language.

Hey, another noob question: does death penalty affect henchmen? It looks like it doesn't affect pets (my cat always has the same max hit points regardless of whether it's died), but the game doesn't seem to give you a way of checking on henchie hp.

Mox
09-19-2007, 03:26 AM
Certainly seems to. Gets to the stage where the first thing that happens in any fight is Alesia heals something then has to have a lie down for a bit.

Aeon221
09-19-2007, 05:18 AM
Incidentally, an 800-damage armor-ignoring spike is weak. Try ritspike pre-nerf, or any of another half-dozen overpowered POS builds that still haven't been nerfed.

TBH, they were following it with a shit ton of aoe and prepping it with Augury of Death. The preponderance of the damage seemed to be coming from Obi flame, but I was too busy running to look. It was just that they had enough healing and armor to shrug off our attacks, and that they were galing our infuser =/

In any event, yup. Nailed em with relics, despite having a shit ton of deaths on our side. We were using spirit light to counter degen, have since switch to preservation (and are now considering OoA).

Ugly has to be sick of us though, because we keep stomping them now that we know what to do with them.


And hong, yeah, henches get DP. Heck, pets even get DP (though I'm not sure if that happens in PvE). And I did link a glossary =D

hong
09-19-2007, 06:17 AM
I am now in grind mode.

I'm trying to get from Borlis Pass to the Iron Horse Mine exit without anyone dying. I'm up to my 4th attempt as of this writing.

I'll post if/when I succeed. If I haven't posted in 3 days, call the ambulance kthxb

AaronSofaer
09-19-2007, 11:23 AM
TBH, they were following it with a shit ton of aoe and prepping it with Augury of Death. The preponderance of the damage seemed to be coming from Obi flame, but I was too busy running to look. It was just that they had enough healing and armor to shrug off our attacks, and that they were galing our infuser =/

Yeah, it's rough. My recommendation would be to sub in a Maelstrom on your SH Ele; the Maelstrom will allow you to, properly timed, just utterly destroy them all.

Their key strategy is stacking wards and heals to prevent damage and interruption, but if you throw down a Maelstrom at the right time you can get the wards, and they crumble.

The totally awesome-ninja way of doing Eleball has always been having them all take Aftershock and Sandstorm, with one Earthquake. That was my concept. *grin*

Eleball is trash, anyway; Ritualists make a better spike, Elementalists make superior pressure (Lightning Hammer dual-attunes eles, gogo!).


We were using spirit light to counter degen, have since switch to preservation (and are now considering OoA).

I'm a huge, huge fan of the Rit mana-gain Elite, can't remember its name right now. Sacrifice health if no spirits are around, gain a good chunk of mana.

Unless you're running N/Rt, that is, in which case I sniff arrogantly and condescendingly in your general direction, you elderberry-smelling person you.

hong
09-21-2007, 03:27 PM
Well, I just grabbed Nightfall and Factions from the GW online store.

Now, it seems I have to fight a whole bunch of 24th level monsters just so I can get from Lion's Arch to Elona. Bah. Those heroes had better be worth it.

Aeon221
09-21-2007, 03:36 PM
Well, I just grabbed Nightfall and Factions from the GW online store.

Now, it seems I have to fight a whole bunch of 24th level monsters just so I can get from Lion's Arch to Elona. Bah. Those heroes had better be worth it.

I've got nothing to do atm (just got back from class), so I'll pop on and we'll get you through.

hong
09-21-2007, 11:50 PM
I posted that just as I was heading out this morning. Just tried it again, and, well, heh, that wasn't so bad after all. :D

Took a full party of henchmen with me, and with the aid of the Sunspear guards and avoiding the wandering mobs, I managed to take down the chaos rifts. The henchies died a few times, but I was expecting that.

fuzzyslug
09-24-2007, 05:48 AM
Well, I just grabbed Nightfall and Factions from the GW online store.

Now, it seems I have to fight a whole bunch of 24th level monsters just so I can get from Lion's Arch to Elona. Bah. Those heroes had better be worth it.

Aren't those games still full price online?

hong
09-26-2007, 03:32 AM
Aren't those games still full price online?
They're also still full price offline here in sunny Austria, the land down under....

fuzzyslug
09-26-2007, 05:23 AM
They're also still full price offline here in sunny Austria, the land down under....

Ah, that makes sense then. I just remember getting frustrated about the last expansion because it was much cheaper at the store than online.

hong
09-26-2007, 07:31 AM
Anyone have hints on how to beat the Elona Reach mission? The 30 min time limit seems just insane. It take ages to beat down the mobs of Forgotten, and it's not like you can go around them easily either; the map is crawling with them.

Hawkeye Fierce
09-26-2007, 07:40 AM
Anyone have hints on how to beat the Elona Reach mission? The 30 min time limit seems just insane. It take ages to beat down the mobs of Forgotten, and it's not like you can go around them easily either; the map is crawling with them.

That one gave me some trouble for a while, but not because of the time limit. Playing a Minion Master on missions that are heavy with undead/non-fleshy monsters is always a challenge.

I eventually managed to do it by just being cautious and working hard at pulling one group at a time. Right after the timer starts, if you spend a few minutes clearing out the patrols in the "central" area it should make things easier. I went very slowly and methodically and still ended up with a couple of minutes to spare.

I believe a majority of the mobs in the mission are weak to lightning damage, too, if you can bring any. Those Enchanted Swords/Armors/Bows are immune to bleeding and such, so if you're using a condition-inflicting build you might consider changing to something else.

If all else fails, I'm happy to help you through the mission - I think I still need the bonus for it anyway. My Necro is called Gianna Mordova, and I can bring along some heroes that'll make it cake easy.

hong
09-26-2007, 07:48 AM
I'll say right up front that I haven't exactly got an optimised char: a warrior/ranger with a bow. Other than that, I've been using Melonni, Dunkoro and Sosuke as heroes, plus Alesia and Stefan. Sosuke has plenty of fire magic, but no air magic at all.

Up to now I hadn't had much trouble killing stuff, but I really seem to be short on firepower for this one. Even just fighting one group at a time, those Forgotten take a long time to go down. I've also tried following the walkthrough on the wiki, but without success.

hong
09-30-2007, 09:24 AM
Well, I beat it on what must have been the 4th or 5th go. Took it slow as suggested, and wiped all the wandering patrols before heading for the crystals. It's a pain how more mobs spawn after you grab each crystal. After grabbing the last one, I just ran for the ghostly hero, leaving my party members to cover my ass. It worked too, with just Alesia dying, but she's used to that by now.

The other Ascension missions weren't nearly as annoying, although I still needed a few retries for each. The actual fight with the doppelganger was trivial. Easiest bonus I've earned so far. One big advantage with all-henchman/hero parties is teamwork, I've found. Your NPCs (nearly) always attack the one target so you never end up in the situation where 6 people are each fighting their own battle. That gets ugly fast against mobs.

Anyway, I'm now in Droknar's Forge, having just blown ~12k gold on a new armour set so I'm not in a chainmail miniskirt anymore. For a lark I decided to have a go at Rotscale, the bone dragon in Kryta. He blew me away not once, but three times, and this was with an 8-member party starting from the Temple of Ages. I managed to take down the rest of his group via attrition, but didn't come anywhere close to killing or even significantly damaging him. Also had a go at the Tomb of the Primeval Kings, but again got wiped by the monsters. Must work on my kiting skills.

Aeon221
09-30-2007, 12:14 PM
I'll say right up front that I haven't exactly got an optimised char: a warrior/ranger with a bow. Other than that, I've been using Melonni, Dunkoro and Sosuke as heroes, plus Alesia and Stefan. Sosuke has plenty of fire magic, but no air magic at all.

Up to now I hadn't had much trouble killing stuff, but I really seem to be short on firepower for this one. Even just fighting one group at a time, those Forgotten take a long time to go down. I've also tried following the walkthrough on the wiki, but without success.

You should really look into the earth elementalist line. Wards (especially vs melee and foes) and aoe blind (from eruption) make for a killer combo in those missions.

I'm totally ignoring the absolutely bonkers combo of a savannah heat ele and a sandstorm/wards ele. You can pretty much giggle your way through all the ascension missions, aggroing everything you want with your insane damage output.

What time do you generally play at (I'm on from about 9ish eastern), as you're really gonna get killed in the South Shiverpeaks missions without some help.

hong
09-30-2007, 04:24 PM
I dunno mang, I just completed Iron Mines of Moladune and Thunderhead Keep on the first try. :D Just taking it slow and making sure not to aggro too many enemies at once made them easy. Well, that and looking at the walkthroughs on the wiki; although I didn't remember much except to grab Barrage off the guy in IMM.

The Shiverpeaks explorable areas are another matter though. It's guaranteed I'll run into at least one gigantic monster swarm per map, causing a TPK.

hong
10-01-2007, 03:45 AM
And now I've just finished off the Prophecies storyline in a six-hour burst. Those Ring of Fire missions weren't too bad at all, with the sole exception of the fight with undead-you-know-who in Hell's Precipice. The end boss wasn't half as bad as his lieutenant.

I have to say that the GW wikis (both of them) are a great resource, though. I don't just mean the walkthroughs, but also general information on what skills to use, where to get stuff, what are the common builds, etc. Without them it would have been much more of a slog.

That was a pretty impressive storyline too. Clearly someone at ArenaNet has been reading Joseph Campbell. I wasn't expecting such a strong storyline in an MMORPG -- they're more usually sandbox-ish, aren't they? Also a bit on the railroady side, but that's fine with me. As long as I get my quota of violence perpetrated on random monsters, it's all good.

Aeon221
10-01-2007, 05:23 AM
Meh, you cheated! =d

_Fury_
10-04-2007, 06:03 PM
Ok, newbie question - I've never gotten much past level 10 (I've got the original game). I just bought Nightfall on a lark and want to get my character into that campaign. Is it possible?

JPR
10-04-2007, 07:13 PM
Before you can move into that campaign, you have to get to Lion's Arch in the first game. It's not that far, really -- most people are probably there by level 13 or so?

If you remember what was going on in the first one, you get through the newbie area, have the cutscene, then you do a few missions, get to the snow area, there are maybe 4 or 5 missions in the snow area, then you are at Lion's Arch.

So. You can either press on to Lion's Arch and then move this character over (via a quest) or you can start a new one in Nightfall.

Aeon221
10-04-2007, 07:51 PM
Yup. Alternatively, PM me in game (Aeon The Piglet) and I'll run your character to Lion's Arch and help you with the necessary quest.

Mark Crump
10-04-2007, 07:54 PM
Did they fix the issues with Heroes starting at level 2 if you transfer in from another campaign?

_Fury_
10-04-2007, 08:20 PM
Thanks! I was hoping it'd be easy, but what fun would that be? I think my character is in Yak's Bend? I'll look you up Aeon.

As a side note, should I be doing this? Will I miss out on anything by doing it this way instead of starting a new character?

Aeon221
10-04-2007, 08:46 PM
Did they fix the issues with Heroes starting at level 2 if you transfer in from another campaign?

Yes. Now they're all level 15 when you transfer over.


Thanks! I was hoping it'd be easy, but what fun would that be? I think my character is in Yak's Bend? I'll look you up Aeon.

As a side note, should I be doing this? Will I miss out on anything by doing it this way instead of starting a new character?

You'll miss out on the early story stuff, but they catch you up on it. You also miss out on a bunch of inane grinding for Sunspear rank, something that totally blows.

malkav11
10-04-2007, 09:49 PM
Although I personally would be more inclined to start with Nightfall or Factions and move to Prophecies, simply because Nightfall and Factions both offer a pair of new professions, but retain all of those available in Prophecies (albeit with somewhat different skillsets to start.).

_Fury_
10-05-2007, 05:47 AM
I started a Paragon last night and may do it that way for a bit - Nightfall first, that is. Every single character I've made in Guild Wars never got past about level 11, and all of them never made it further than Yak's bend. There's a group of dwarves in the map outside that have made me stop playing about 4 times over the years since Guild Wars came out. I just encountered them again and remembered why I stop playing every time. So, I'll try Nightfall instead.

Heron Prior
10-05-2007, 09:21 AM
starting in one campaign and switching to another before you complete that campaign's equivalent of the Ascension quest will keep you from getting those last 30 attribute points. If you're only level ten in Prophecies, I'd reroll in Nightfall...the amount of time you'd lose is pretty trivial.

hong
10-07-2007, 08:04 PM
I started a Paragon last night and may do it that way for a bit - Nightfall first, that is. Every single character I've made in Guild Wars never got past about level 11, and all of them never made it further than Yak's bend. There's a group of dwarves in the map outside that have made me stop playing about 4 times over the years since Guild Wars came out. I just encountered them again and remembered why I stop playing every time. So, I'll try Nightfall instead.
One of the things I've found with Prophecies is that a lot of the explorable maps are in fact tougher than the missions. Still, with persistence you should be able to eventually slog your way through the mobs. I don't know why they made it this way; it's like they expect you to die a few times in clearing each map (that's what I did!). A rather dumb design decision, if you ask me.

I'm now in Cantha with a W/A (new character), Tahlkora, Dunkoro and Acolyte Jin. My gawd, Kaineng is pretty. Well, not PRETTY as such (it's actually rather oppressive) but it's a hell of a visually impressive environment. Clearly A-net have been inspired by the Kowloon Walled City (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowloon_Walled_City), one of the wackier accidents of history. I'm actually taking the time to slow down and marvel at the scenery.

Aeon221
10-08-2007, 05:35 PM
Not that it matters, but I love going to the French districts and practicing. I think I've learned more french from this game than in 6 years of taking it in hs/college.

Mister Widget
10-09-2007, 01:34 PM
So are there any QT3ers in a Kurzick alliance guild who could temporarily invite me to their guild for a few days? I'm working on getting Kurzick rank 1, and I'd like to donate my faction points towards an alliance (any alliance!), since you get double progress for ranks that way. I was in the QT3 guild, but it's not part of a Kurzick alliance, and it's a ghost town at this point.

Aeon221
10-09-2007, 07:38 PM
Sure, I'll get you an invite somewhere. Just post your IGN on here or PM me or something.

hong
10-17-2007, 07:48 AM
Just did the last two Factions missions in another 5-hour burst.










[spoiler]
Goddamn, Raisu Palace is a royal pain in the behind; an imperial pain, even. You get three-quarters of the way through and then Mhenlo dies and you have to do it all again. Or half the party is dead, the res signets are used up, and neither Mhenlo nor Togo will cast resurrect. I tried using Talon and Danika at first (what the wiki recommends), but that left me just too short on nuking ability against the endless hordes of afflicted. Replacing Talon with Cynn gave me enough firepower and healing to slog through with ~2 minutes to spare.

Shiro by contrast was much more straightforward, even if it still took me 4 tries to finally gank him. Plus if you die, it's just a short run after the restart to get back to him. I ended up killing him in 2 mins 18 secs for the Master's reward. Changing all the heroes to necro secondary and using Spiteful Spirit, Spoil Victor and Insidious Parasite to turn Shiro's suped-up attacks against him worked quite well, once I got the timing down. Again, props to the wiki for that hint.

I love the Divine Path area that you get at the end, where everyone is singing your praises. Nice touch. And I noticed that Jeff Grubb (a fairly big name in D&D land) is mentioned in the credits as a designer!

This was, as before, with an all-hero/hench party. Maybe I should give the missions a go with another human player, to see how it changes things. I suspect they'll get harder, at least with PUGs; the last 3 missions really seem to need a lot of coordination to succeed, which IME is where PUGs fall down. Maybe I'll just move on to Nightfall....

Aeon221
10-17-2007, 12:22 PM
I got a 3 day ban after swearing up a storm while drunk, so yay me! I jumped on my brother's account (he doesn't play anymore, so meh), and was surprised at how little the difficulty changes when you don't have heroes and skills. The updates to hench ai make a HUGE difference in the difficulty of the game. I took a random newbie through two of the south shiverpeak missions with nary a death using only henchmen, despite them being ridiculously hard back in the day.

Maybe its because I'm leet (doubt it) or I've just got a lot of experience with those missions (possible, as he seemed astonished at how easily we did them after he had tried multiple times with no success), but I'm fairly sure it has more to do with the henchmen being super smart now.

Hong, the best part of the game is the puggies. It really is. I'm not sure why so many people get their jollies bashing on how awful pugs are, but they are almost always dead wrong. I'm sure it is much harder to get a group in a funky timezone, but give it a shot. Even just one or two people in addition to the henchies can make a big difference -- both in terms of how easy the mission is and how much fun you have doing it. Just be sure that they are willing to listen to movement orders and you'll be fine.

And for me, the key to beating Shiro reliably is a rit with shelter and union. Just can't beat party wide prot spirit and shielding hands.

Mark Crump
10-17-2007, 12:42 PM
I've had amazing luck with pugs in Guild Wars. I've only done 4-5 of them, but I'm @ 100% rate on them. Even after multiple wipes we all stuck together.

I did the last 3-4 quests in EoTN with one group over about 3-4 hours.

malkav11
10-17-2007, 08:58 PM
Dunno, man. All my Guild Wars PUGs since launch - ALL of them - have been awful. Every single last one. And that's typically how I've grouped in other MMOs (including WoW, a game also famed for being full of stupid players, no doubt imported from Battle.net), so it's not like I'm actively against PUGs in general.

By the way - on heroes refusing to resurrect you: You can pop open their skill bar, target yourself, and manually trigger their resurrect skill. In fact, that's how I prefer to use resurrection with heroes, because I've found if I let them pick when to resurrect me, they do it as soon as I die and often get me instantly slaughtered all over again.

hong
10-18-2007, 04:14 AM
For the record, I find the most efficient way to go through PvE zones is with a buffed-up melee group.

Interesting, I'm doing the exact opposite: one tank, and lots of nukers and monks to provide support and firepower. This is in normal mode as opposed to hard, though.

hong
10-18-2007, 04:32 AM
Hong, the best part of the game is the puggies. It really is. I'm not sure why so many people get their jollies bashing on how awful pugs are, but they are almost always dead wrong. I'm sure it is much harder to get a group in a funky timezone, but give it a shot. Even just one or two people in addition to the henchies can make a big difference -- both in terms of how easy the mission is and how much fun you have doing it. Just be sure that they are willing to listen to movement orders and you'll be fine.

Well, I'll admit I'm really a single-player guy at heart. Why the fuck are you fucking playing a fucking MMO when you're into fucking SP, I hear you ask. I just got it on a whim, based on the box saying you could play solo with the aid of henchmen. And so far, it has actually been pretty good. Obviously there's concessions to be made with regard to solo gameplay because it's still an MMO, but I've been having a lot of fun killing monsters and following the storyline. For the most part, if I ignore the dozens of people in the chatrooms I mean towns, the other 99% of the world is a pretty good approximation to a SP game. (The instance-happy design of GW is a nice fit to my tastes; it would be different in a game like WOW, I guess.)

Other than SP, I wouldn't mind teaming up with other people whom I know IRL or have some other connection to (eg from Qt3 or other forums). Teaming with random gamers is further down my priority list. I've been in a few PUGs and while noone has been an actual asshole, the experience hasn't been that great either. A lot of people like to charge at the first sign of monsters, which sooner or later ends up aggroing a huge mob and causes a wipe. Not everyone is like that clearly, but with a PUG you never know who you're going to get.

hong
10-18-2007, 04:40 AM
By the way - on heroes refusing to resurrect you: You can pop open their skill bar, target yourself, and manually trigger their resurrect skill.

Oh, HEROES are quite happy to resurrect you (they may take their time about it, but that's another matter). I was talking about the 2nd-last mission in Factions, where you have Mhenlo and Togo tagging along as allies, as opposed to party members. They can cast healing spells all day, but resurrect? Nope.

AaronSofaer
10-18-2007, 02:12 PM
Interesting, I'm doing the exact opposite: one tank, and lots of nukers and monks to provide support and firepower. This is in normal mode as opposed to hard, though.


Yeah, normal mode is a joke; the mobs have low enough health and few enough support skill that you can kill them any of a dozen different ways, and the AoE ways are far more efficient. Just pull three to four groups with the proper setup and obliterate them in four seconds, rinse repeat.

Hardmode, stuff has so much health and there are actually support skills, and the AI is marginally better. AoE doesn't generally work all that well. Buffed-up melee, though, just rips through all the mobs.

Also, in hardmode, everything has way more armor, which means damage reduction from Elemental, but +damage from melee attacks isn't reduced, nor are orders, nor is Strength of Honor damage.

Aeon221
10-18-2007, 05:38 PM
Well, I'll admit I'm really a single-player guy at heart. Why the fuck are you fucking playing a fucking MMO when you're into fucking SP, I hear you ask. I just got it on a whim, based on the box saying you could play solo with the aid of henchmen. And so far, it has actually been pretty good. Obviously there's concessions to be made with regard to solo gameplay because it's still an MMO, but I've been having a lot of fun killing monsters and following the storyline. For the most part, if I ignore the dozens of people in the chatrooms I mean towns, the other 99% of the world is a pretty good approximation to a SP game. (The instance-happy design of GW is a nice fit to my tastes; it would be different in a game like WOW, I guess.)

Other than SP, I wouldn't mind teaming up with other people whom I know IRL or have some other connection to (eg from Qt3 or other forums). Teaming with random gamers is further down my priority list. I've been in a few PUGs and while noone has been an actual asshole, the experience hasn't been that great either. A lot of people like to charge at the first sign of monsters, which sooner or later ends up aggroing a huge mob and causes a wipe. Not everyone is like that clearly, but with a PUG you never know who you're going to get.

Crazy as it sounds, give it a whirl. The top places to chat are: Kamadan, Shing Jea, Great Temple of Balthazar (caveat: gold spammers and other annoying shits to be found here), Marhan's Grotto (caveat: I haven't been there in forever, but it used to be a big hot spot), Random Arena, and Hero's Ascent. Lion's Arch and Ascalon are okay during peak hours, but the rest of them are pretty much universally stocked with interesting people from around the world.

Plus, there are all sorts of endgame pve and pvp things that you won't have much fun doing unless you meet people who you enjoy doing them with. And Qt3 ain't the best place to find em =D

hong
10-24-2007, 07:37 PM
BTW, has anyone been getting a graphics glitch where the weapon skin they're using changes in the middle of a fight? I've got a katana in Factions, but often during a fight it changes into some huge, giant-sized scimitar-like thing. Looks nothing like a katana, or indeed any other sword I've seen in the game. After the fight is over, it changes back.

It doesn't seem to affect gameplay at all, but it does look weird. I'll see if I can get a screenshot.

AaronSofaer
10-24-2007, 07:40 PM
Never heard of that bug. Reproducible?

hong
10-24-2007, 07:49 PM
Yeah, it happens all the time. I'll post a screenie when I get home this evening.

AaronSofaer
10-24-2007, 08:00 PM
Can you make it happen at will? If so, could you post a list of steps that will make it happen?

If not, screenshots come in handy, too, but the best thing is always a series of steps that reproduces the bug. :)

hong
10-25-2007, 12:08 AM
Ahh never mind, figured it out. The ritualist henchman has been casting weapon spells (http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Weapon_Spell) on me.

This is what shows up:

http://gw.gamewikis.org/images/2/28/WeaponSpellSword.jpg

SqueakyFoo
10-25-2007, 12:59 AM
Nice chainmail bikini.

hong
11-11-2007, 10:37 PM
So, I haven't updated this blog in some time, but I just thought I'd mention that I'm now doing Nightfall. It's great to see a fantasy RPG that doesn't use one of the staple settings: a) quasi-Europe; b) quasi-Asia; c) quasi-tech a la FF.

Very nice touches of humour, eg Koss dancing after he gets rescued from the Kournans (which actually made me literally laugh out loud); the profusion of pop culture references; having to /dance to open the secret door to Dasha Vestibule, etc. It provides a contrast with the in-game storyline movies, which can be excruciatingly earnest at times.

From a mechanical point of view, it's interesting to see how they've dealt with the issue of levelling. I guess they learned from Factions, where there was practically no level grind at all: the downside of this was, once you'd topped out, there wasn't much in the way of mechanical powerups to tempt you to keep adventuring. There was Kurzick/Luxon faction and more elites to cap, but it didn't feel quite the same. Not to mention that becoming "closer to the stars" not 1/4 of the way through just made it feel somewhat less epic than it should. This time, not only is the speed of levelling reduced, but Sunspear and Lightbringer ranks give a way of still obtaining crunchy bits even after you've hit the max level. And you don't have to farm points to the same silly degree as K/L faction. (Gather 100,000 faction just to earn the privilege of being able to spend _more_ faction to buy a skill? Now that's grind.)

I've just finished the Grand Court of Sebelkeh mission, having picked Margrid and Goren. The interplay between those two has been great. I might regret passing on Norgu, and thus not having a dedicated mesmer, but I'll deal with that if and when it comes up. I'm now focusing on getting more toys for my dolls, I mean more gear and elites for my heroes. What stuff should I get for Morgahn? How about hammer and axe skills? My main PC has been using a katana long enough, I don't need more katanae in the party.

Sharpe
11-11-2007, 10:54 PM
Im also playing through Nightfall now - its really my first full playthrough of a campaign since I stalled out at level 10 in Prophecies back at release. The Hero system is a huge upgrade and the level progression in Nightfall seems very solid. I have a full party of level 20s now but I still feel like theres a lot to do in terms of gearing up, getting faction, and of course progressing the storyline. I just completed the mission to rescue the centaurs, and that was pretty good.

So far the Consulate Docks mission stands out as a high point of level design, as well as the silly fight-the-waves-of-lizards master mission in Istan (the sheer volume just made it fun - when they said "master difficulty" for the level I took the mission at, they weren't kidding).

The game has definitely matured since it failed to grab me at release. Its a much better game now IMO.

Tom Chick
11-11-2007, 11:03 PM
After choking on Hellgate for the last few weeks, I am *so* ready to revisit Guild Wars. You guys have fun for me. Maybe I'll hop back in sometime in January...

-Tom

Jaysun
11-12-2007, 10:17 AM
I'm going through Nightfall now as well. Just got to Resplendant Muukar. Feel free to add me to your friend's list if you guys want someone to play with or need help with getting elite skills or master quests.

Name: Iblis Aranai

Henry Wilson
11-12-2007, 11:31 AM
This time, not only is the speed of levelling reduced, but Sunspear and Lightbringer ranks give a way of still obtaining crunchy bits even after you've hit the max level.

Without spoiling anything for you, the way faction grinding is handled in Eye of the North is even more compelling. You have choices of many factions, each of which provide numerous skills (far more useful than the Sunspear skills) that really make a difference on pve gameplay if you put in the time. Not to mention special faction armor and whatnot. None of this stuff matters in any way, but it still feels like getting something accomplished.

Oddly this is enough to keep me playing in an expansion that requires one to be at maximum level even to access it. Levels are overrated.


I'm now focusing on getting more toys for my dolls, I mean more gear and elites for my heroes. What stuff should I get for Morgahn? How about hammer and axe skills? My main PC has been using a katana long enough, I don't need more katanae in the party.

You're about to hit a point where skills that inflict the "dazed" condition on foes make the game a lot easier.

Sharpe
11-12-2007, 12:55 PM
I'm going through Nightfall now as well. Just got to Resplendant Muukar. Feel free to add me to your friend's list if you guys want someone to play with or need help with getting elite skills or master quests.

Name: Iblis Aranai

My toon is Sharpe Spear (yeah, hes a paragon and I'm a literalist). I also have Sharpe Blade the warrior and Sharpe Bones the necro, both level 10. I'm still in the QT3 guild but it seems pretty defunct these days. No one but me has logged on for a few weeks according to guild info.

If theres a few of us still playing we can hook up occasionally for missions etc. One great thing about GW is the complete absence of server segregation.

Slainte Mhath
11-12-2007, 02:00 PM
Eye of the North has turned out to be way better than I expected.

That said, my small weekly group and I just finished the final Nightfall mission last week. The endgame sequence is pretty awesome.

I'm "Raveneye Darkstar" Warrior and sometime Necro most nights I'm on. I don't seem to have time for alts anymore. I've finished Prophecies, Nightfall and a few missions of Factions (just picked that one up with EotN recently). Working on EotN content now if anyone needs a hand with anything.

malkav11
11-12-2007, 04:22 PM
Picked up Eye of the North on the 31st of October for those four bonus missions (can't think of much else that would have tempted me to get it when I don't have any level 20 characters and five hot new games are releasing per week. Damn you, ArenaNet.). Suppose I really ought to get around to finishing some of the campaigns sometime, but with all the other gaming going on and nobody to play with...

Aeon221
11-12-2007, 04:46 PM
As usual, "Aeon The Piglet". If I'm on and you are stuck anywhere, I'll break pve for you with my paragon and his krewe (or, uh, any of my other dudes). I've got difficulty sleeping, so you'll generally see me on late at night.

I'd also be happy to pass out loot and cash if any of you guys are destitute and desperate. I've got everything I need, so I generally spend it on friends and guildies anyway.

AaronSofaer
11-12-2007, 05:10 PM
Damn you all! You're getting me back into Guild Wars...

... logged on and started messaging people I hadn't talked to in nine months, everyone started flipping out...

... lost to Dom in Halls, rangerspike still exists it looks like and it still pisses me off! Next up, a build with a shit-ton of anti-physical!

... destroyed two of the leading FotM guilds in HA though, and with a build that practically screams old-school.

If any of you want to get in on some HA PvP, Ventrilo and some modicum of skill (though not necessarily experience) required, toss Embryo Grammariates a whisper (or anyone on that account, it's PvP, I play like a billion different roles depending).

Aeon221
11-12-2007, 09:42 PM
Tell me it was Gank and Ego that got crushed. Glass Arrows spike just won't die, sad as it sounds. The recent nerfs have brought back the WoH infuser. Things are odd in HA land.

hong
11-13-2007, 12:30 AM
Damn you all! You're getting me back into Guild Wars...


My VM work here is done.

Aeon221
11-13-2007, 02:14 AM
Had fun roaming the earth with Sharpe tonight. Even better, he didn't complain about trailing a berserk ranger assassin who couldn't think further than the next mob waiting to be butchered. What can I say, I'm a sexy shoeless god of _war_, not map reading! I think the gift helped.

I'd be happy to put any of you guys in touch with some really active and excellent pvers that I know if you're constantly looking for a group for stuff. And, as always, I love tearing into things, so if I'm on I'm there.

hong
11-13-2007, 05:14 AM
Actually, what GW with heroes/henchies really reminds me of is Baldur's Gate (the first one). Like BG, there's an unchanging plotline and limited noncombat NPC interaction, but on the upside you can have a grand old time exploring maps, killing monsters and uncovering the occasional easter egg. Since BG was the first CRPG since Ultima 5 to really capture my imagination, it's no surprise that I've been having a great time with GW as well.

The interface is also very similar, with click-to-move, no jumping and limited control over party members' actions. You don't have BG's drag-select, but flagging your party is an adequate replacement most of the time. You also don't have the pause function, but IMO BG was most fun anyway when you just let the action flow.

hong
11-13-2007, 05:21 AM
Here's one question though: what is it with the supersized maps? By which I mean, everything seems to be scaled about 50% too large for the people walking around. Eg I'll be standing next to a door, and the doorknob is level with my head. The ghostly hero in the Crystal Desert is about twice as tall as me. Wacky.

AaronSofaer
11-13-2007, 08:55 AM
Tell me it was Gank and Ego that got crushed. Glass Arrows spike just won't die, sad as it sounds. The recent nerfs have brought back the WoH infuser. Things are odd in HA land.


We crushed aMp and Gank, didn't run up against Ego, and had a damned good fight against Black Parades that we lost by a hair.

We got annihilated by rangerspike, though, some scrub Guild with a crude name and a tag of [Day]. Whatever, next build I run will have more anti-physical in it; Shadow of Fear, Reckless Haste, maybe even Price and Spirit of Failure to keep company with the water ele's Blurred Vision.

Aeon221
11-13-2007, 12:19 PM
We crushed aMp and Gank, didn't run up against Ego, and had a damned good fight against Black Parades that we lost by a hair.

We got annihilated by rangerspike, though, some scrub Guild with a crude name and a tag of [Day]. Whatever, next build I run will have more anti-physical in it; Shadow of Fear, Reckless Haste, maybe even Price and Spirit of Failure to keep company with the water ele's Blurred Vision.

Parades are real trash these days. Almost none of the originals are still in there, and the rest of them run with xMCx, another guild I'm hard pressed to respect. We roll them even with their lame signet spiker build. aMp is alright, but Ego is positively brutal.

The meta is heavily skewed towards block or physical overload, especially after the nerf of LoD. My guild has been fine tuning a hex heavy build as a result -- seems like the obvious counter to both of them.

Aeon221
11-13-2007, 12:29 PM
Actually, what GW with heroes/henchies really reminds me of is Baldur's Gate (the first one). Like BG, there's an unchanging plotline and limited noncombat NPC interaction, but on the upside you can have a grand old time exploring maps, killing monsters and uncovering the occasional easter egg. Since BG was the first CRPG since Ultima 5 to really capture my imagination, it's no surprise that I've been having a great time with GW as well.

The interface is also very similar, with click-to-move, no jumping and limited control over party members' actions. You don't have BG's drag-select, but flagging your party is an adequate replacement most of the time. You also don't have the pause function, but IMO BG was most fun anyway when you just let the action flow.

Pretty much. Did you find any of the hidden treasure chests in Nightfall? There are ten of them, spread throughout the map, that don't require a key to open. However, you can't open any single chest more than once every thirty days with a single character. They all pop out around 1.5 platinum and a gold item or rare crafting material.

The easiest one to find is on an island near the fort Koss is imprisoned in -- the rest are much more difficult to locate.


In more general terms, I've been having a lot of fun running a ranger assassin with Escape, Golden Fox Strike, Wild Strike, Death Blossom, and Impale with a ritualist that uses warmonger's weapon, splinter weapon, and ancestor's rage. The amount of aoe damage it puts out is staggering -- around 100 aoe damage every four seconds, around 200 single target damage every 4 seconds (and a deep wound on that target every 10), and splinter weapon adds another 120 aoe damage. This on a character with a 75% chance to block all incoming attacks and 100al against elemental damage -- meaning it takes about half the damage a normal character does from elemental sources. Apply warmongers for almost constant interruption on casters.

Coupled with a "Save Yourself"/"There's Nothing To Fear" paragon and a tainted flesh necro, the character is an untouchable whirling engine of death.

Crafting creative builds are what make this game really interesting for me -- and I know for a fact that I'm nowhere near the top of the line for creativity.

AaronSofaer
11-13-2007, 12:34 PM
Parades still has Loki and Pheryel, so far as I care they're still the gimmick-Guild they always were. :)

I'm thinking next time I run a build it'll be dual migraine with a hydro (Blurred) and a N/Me or Me/N hexer; Price, Spirit, Reckless, etc. Probably dual-HB/RC backline, with a Warrior for last spot. Gale on the hydro, Song on the Warrior, and the hexer takes PD as elite for interrupting Heroes.

hong
11-20-2007, 03:00 PM
Ha ha, Sharpe made me an officer of the Qt3 guild.

But what's this? Everyone on the list was last logged in like a year ago! Oh well, so much for taking over the world.

Mark Crump
11-20-2007, 03:28 PM
Ha ha, Sharpe made me an officer of the Qt3 guild.

But what's this? Everyone on the list was last logged in like a year ago! Oh well, so much for taking over the world.

My toon is Maxine Rockatansky, and I should have been logged in within the last month or so.

Sharpe
11-20-2007, 03:36 PM
I'm not entirely sure how I became guildleader either. Did Tom sneakily promote me? Or did the game auto-promote me b/c I was the only person logged in recently? There are a few others who show a last logged in time of 3 weeks, and another batch around 2 months.

hong
11-20-2007, 03:39 PM
True, but it wouldn't have been as good a soundbite to say "everyone on the list was last logged in like a year ago, except for a few who logged in 3 weeks ago, and another batch from 2 months back".

Jason Cross
11-20-2007, 05:03 PM
I played some Guild Wars back when it first came out, so it's been awhile.

How duo-friendly is it? The GF and I play Hellgate co-op and she loves that kind of game (Mythos too). But we're frustrated with Hellgate and I thought she might really dig playing Guild Wars. She's sensitive about monthly fees, so it's a good fit. But if the two of us are going to quickly find that we need to team up with other people to do any of the cool stuff, it's not going to be fun.

AaronSofaer
11-20-2007, 05:03 PM
Get Nightfall and you'll be fine.

EFlannum
11-20-2007, 05:06 PM
I played some Guild Wars back when it first came out, so it's been awhile.

How duo-friendly is it? The GF and I play Hellgate co-op and she loves that kind of game (Mythos too). But we're frustrated with Hellgate and I thought she might really dig playing Guild Wars. She's sensitive about monthly fees, so it's a good fit. But if the two of us are going to quickly find that we need to team up with other people to do any of the cool stuff, it's not going to be fun.

I think you'd want to try out Nightfall. With Nightfall each player can have 3 heroes with them. Heroes are basically henchmen that can be given orders to and equipped with items and skills. The limit of 3 Heroes per player was actually put in place to intentionally promote duoing. You should be able to finish any conent in the game with 2 players and 6 heroes.

Sharpe
11-20-2007, 05:09 PM
Yeah, start with Nightfall. It's a standalone box with a full campaign. Quite early on you start to aquire Heroes, who are permanent henchman who level up with you. You have full control over their spec-build and can set their AI to aggressive, defensive or passive. Each player can have up to 3 Heroes, so a duo of players can fill out an entire 8-person party with 2 players and 6 Heroes. A duo like that should be able to do the entirety of the Nightfall campaign as well as the majority of all content in all campaigns.

I've done some missions teamed with Aeon and between us and our Heroes we have had no trouble even on a pretty tough Ring of Fire mission.

Also, Mister Widget has been playing with just his own toon, 3 Heroes and 4 henchmen and he has been able to complete all the regular missions and quests in all 4 of the campaigns, by himself. I have also done about 3/4 of Nightfall and 3/4 of Prophecies, also by myself with Heroes and henchmen.

So Guild Wars should be a great game for duo-ing IMO.

Sharpe
11-20-2007, 05:12 PM
Oh, if you tried the game at release, and if you use the same account for Nightfall, then your account will also have the Prophecies campaign (thats the initial release campaign) installed. I did this, and in between I had gotten a new PC so Prophecies wasn't installed on my new machine, and I had lost my CDs. But, no worries, since my account was enabled for Prophecies, when I went to the Prophecies land, the game just downloaded the data files for me and I was able to play Prophecies, no trouble. And the downloads were suprisingly short too.

So if you pick up Nightfall you will have the entire (huge) Prophecies campaign to play as well, assuming you use your old account.

I also just got Factions, which is looking pretty sweet so far.

hong
11-20-2007, 10:09 PM
Yeah, Factions has one of the most visually impressive settings I've seen.

I'm not talking about Shing Jea island, which is pretty but fairly conventional. It's Kaineng City that I really find awesome. A lot of people reckon it's just ugly, but for me, that's the point. It conveys an atmosphere of ancient grandeur _and_ oppressive urban decay like nothing else.

malkav11
11-20-2007, 11:31 PM
Also note: right at the moment if you buy through the Guild Wars store, you can snag Eye of the North (which is, admittedly, advanced content) and get another campaign along with it for half off....I kinda wish I'd had some inkling that was going to happen. I might have held off on Factions (which I got a while back but have yet to play) and gotten Eye of the North now instead of back in late October.

I dunno how worthwhile that is for someone who may or may not play the game long-term enough to get into Eye of the North...and I suspect most of the hardcore players already have all four SKUs. But it's there.

Aeon221
11-21-2007, 12:08 AM
I played some Guild Wars back when it first came out, so it's been awhile.

How duo-friendly is it? The GF and I play Hellgate co-op and she loves that kind of game (Mythos too). But we're frustrated with Hellgate and I thought she might really dig playing Guild Wars. She's sensitive about monthly fees, so it's a good fit. But if the two of us are going to quickly find that we need to team up with other people to do any of the cool stuff, it's not going to be fun.

Like I've said a meelion times, PM me (Aeon The Piglet) and I'll hang out with ya (and whoever). Or I'll put you in touch with someone who will. Or I'll play like a total noob, like I did with Sharpe when we did Ring of Fire -- what, I've not played a warrior in months, its all about the Dervs these days in pvp.

Oh, and Sharpe... my guild sat 7/8 for gvg after that mission because our mesmer disappeared -- you should have heard the bitching on vent... or rather you shouldn't, because damn were we pissed. I'm sorry man, I feel really bad about disappearing like that, especially considering I ended up doing nothing.

hong
11-21-2007, 04:46 AM
Ooh yeah, spitting Shiro on his own sword felt good. Damn close run thing, though. It's a good thing AI healers have much better reflexes than me. But it was most satisfying seeing him use his ultracheese multiattack while hexed with Empathy and Reckless Haste, with the result being lots of "-33"s floating into the air.

Abaddon went down on the first try. Nice of him to just sit there and wait for me to finish him off. I would have got Master's too, if I hadn't tried waiting out the first wave of knockdown spam. Amusingly, one of the henchies killed him off-screen, while I was busy with a torment claw. A suitably ignominious end for a mad god.

Then I got my comeuppance trying to find Razah. :p Multiple mobs of effin' torment creatures crammed into a small map means lots of ganking.

Sharpe
11-21-2007, 02:13 PM
For anyone contemplating getting into (or back into) Guild Wars, the Guild Wars Wiki (http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Main_Page) is pretty great.

In particular, Nightfall has really changed the game. It's a retro-active change as well, since you can take the Nightfall Heroes back into the earlier campaigns, which basically changes the majority of the game content to solo-able content. Also, I have found the map layout, quest design, and mission quality to be much improved in both Factions and Nightfall compared to the original release.

hong
11-21-2007, 10:33 PM
My favourite skill in Nightfall has to be Cautery Signet. Remove all conditions from your party members by setting yourself on fire!

Desslock
11-22-2007, 11:35 AM
In particular, Nightfall has really changed the game. It's a retro-active change as well, since you can take the Nightfall Heroes back into the earlier campaigns, which basically changes the majority of the game content to solo-able content..

Thanks for that confirmation, I was wondering about that. I played the first Guild Wars through to completion, largely solo, but that became extremely arduous at the end, relying upon crazy attrition respawns where you'd hope to take down one guy before dying again.

So if you wanted to play the other content as well, would you first play through Nightfall, then the other campaigns using the Heroes - or just install Nightfall, and start at the original campaign?

EFlannum
11-22-2007, 11:57 AM
Thanks for that confirmation, I was wondering about that. I played the first Guild Wars through to completion, largely solo, but that became extremely arduous at the end, relying upon crazy attrition respawns where you'd hope to take down one guy before dying again.

So if you wanted to play the other content as well, would you first play through Nightfall, then the other campaigns using the Heroes - or just install Nightfall, and start at the original campaign?

You'll need to play through at least some nightfall Desslock. You do quests and missions to unlock the various heroes and all of the ones you get early in Nightfall tend to start at a lower level. If you want some higher level heroes more quickly and have a level 20 character you could play Eye of the North which gives you a level 20 Elementalist and Monk very early.

Sharpe
11-22-2007, 01:10 PM
Actually if you have an old account with existing high level characters, its very easy to pick up some Heroes quickly. If you have both the original release (Prophecies) and Nightfall installed on an account, just go to the city of Lion's Arch, there will be a quest which opens travel to Elona (land of Nightfall). There will also be a quest from Spearmarshall Kormir to join the Nightfall plotline. Take both of those and travel to Elona. Shortly after stepping off the boat, Kormir will give you 4 Heroes (a Warrior, 2 Monks and a Dervish) who will be around level 15ish. Since you can have only 3 Heroes in your group at a time, that will be enough for now.

You can then take those Heroes back to the old campaign or on into the Nightfall campaign as you wish. If you have Factions installed, there will be another travel quest in Lion's Arch which will open up travel to Cantha (land of Factions), and another quest which will segue you into the Factions plotline. It's all very accessible and user-friendly. Once you have some Heroes, they are with that character permanently for all campaigns.

If you want more than those basic 4, then play through the Nightfall plot missions and more will be unlocked. Early on in the first big Nightfall city, you get a choice of a Ranger or an Elementalist. After that, if you have Prophecies you can pick up a Necro and if you have Factions you can pick up an Assassin (each requires one moderately long quest). Then if you play through the campaign, the rest of the Heroes (representing all of the classes) will eventually join you as you advance the plot.

hong
11-22-2007, 02:56 PM
Should just mention that even with the heroes, there are still some areas in Prophecies (in the southern Shiverpeaks) that are stuffed to the gills with big mobs. These are still tricky to get through without someone dying, if not necessarily a party wipe.

I think it's a consequence of the way Proph is designed, where it's often possible to travel to a mission outpost, and do the mission, without doing all the previous missions. So to discourage people from skipping over the storyline, they make the intervening maps as hard as possible. By contrast, in Factions and NF you generally can't do a mission without having done the previous ones first.

And I still haven't managed to take down Rotscale. :(

Richard Bunt
11-22-2007, 03:35 PM
That makes it sound as though the game has de-evolved even more. One of the things that turned me off of the original installment was that they'd managed to put jRPG-style random encounters into a real-time game. What you just said makes it sound like they're taking another page out of the dusty book of Final Fantasy 1 by delineating areas you can go to with an invisible border of monsters that will pound you dead if you wander too far.

I'm sorry if it's been mentioned, but has the story at least become bearable, if you're forced to stick with it like that? One of the running jokes from the first game was that you could type "Jesus, this story could not make me care less" during a cutscene and actually get at least two people responding "Yeah, no kidding".

hong
11-22-2007, 05:25 PM
That makes it sound as though the game has de-evolved even more. One of the things that turned me off of the original installment was that they'd managed to put jRPG-style random encounters into a real-time game. What you just said makes it sound like they're taking another page out of the dusty book of Final Fantasy 1 by delineating areas you can go to with an invisible border of monsters that will pound you dead if you wander too far.

No, that was the first one. And you can get past the invisible border, you just need to be persistent.


I'm sorry if it's been mentioned, but has the story at least become bearable, if you're forced to stick with it like that? One of the running jokes from the first game was that you could type "Jesus, this story could not make me care less" during a cutscene and actually get at least two people responding "Yeah, no kidding".

I'm now imagining typing "Jesus, this match could not make me care less" during a pvp match and getting two people responding "yeah, no kidding".

Aeon221
11-22-2007, 05:43 PM
Hong, if you want, I've got several easy to use pve team builds that will make the game trivial for you -- none of which require pve skills.

Heck, I'll just post my favorite one here:

Ranger/Assassin: OgcTc1O7xB4Um9fHsEYxZ1gxBA

Escape (elite), Golden Fox Strike, Wild Strike, Death Blossom, Impale, Antidote Signet, Lightning Reflexes, Res Sig


Ritualist/Necromancer: OASjUkiMZOHXv51Gj54Y2VhLGA

Offering of Spirits (elite), Ancestor's Rage, Warmonger's Weapon, Splinter Weapon, Spirit Rift, Wielder's Remedy, Animate Bone Minions, Flesh of My Flesh

Necromancer/Monk: OANDUspPOxB1wXoLcUfJBE0I

Tainted Flesh (elite), Rotting Flesh, Putrid Explosion, Well of Suffering, Animate Shambling Horrors, Convert Hexes, Aegis, Res Chant


Necromancer/Elementalist: OAZDUplHP5BLRZQo18ZDIDBA

Spiteful Spirit (elite), Reckless Haste, Glyph of Lesser Energy, Mark of Pain, Barbs, Withering Aura, Suffering, Res Sig.

If you're playing with another human, take a second Ranger/Assassin, two N/Rt healers (OAhiYwh8gtlmTOhXGjaPMvYA and OAhiYwh8IOnYSzJnwbYOOvYA) and either a paragon (Save Yourself + There's Nothing To Fear) or a Shield of Deflection monk for protection type stuff. If you're playing with henchmen, take two monks and two warriors.

You will steamroll pve so bad that you'll wonder how the blue blazes you ever had difficulty. We did fow faster than an Ursanway using consumeables.

So, uh, if you like challenge, don't use this. If you just want to steamroll pve, go for it, by all means.

AaronSofaer
11-22-2007, 06:12 PM
Squishies in hardmode go squish. But your group would just zzzz all the way through easy mode, yeah.

AaronSofaer
11-22-2007, 06:12 PM
I'm now imagining typing "Jesus, this match could not make me care less" during a pvp match and getting two people responding "yeah, no kidding".

Been there, done that.

Paraway vs Paraway. Eventually you get bored and /roll.

hong
11-22-2007, 07:36 PM
Hong, if you want, I've got several easy to use pve team builds that will make the game trivial for you -- none of which require pve skills.


Aw mang, you're using minions. That's CHEATING!

Or something. Actually, this is the build I've been using for like 90% of NF and most of the latter part of Factions:

War/Mes, 10 Str, 14 Sword, 9 Insp/Dom, with a mes focus instead of a shield

Battle Rage (elite), Standing Slash, Barbarous Slice, Power Attack, Disrupting Blow, Wild Blow, Enraging Charge, (other)

IIRC I settled on Mes secondary just for Revealed Enchantment, to get rid of the Shiro'ken elementalists' Sliver Armor. I hate Shiro'ken eles with all of my body, including my pee-pee. My SOP is to activate Enraging Charge, charge in, use Power Attack, and go into Battle Rage; then keep spamming the 3 attack skills, pausing only to reactivate Battle Rage just before it goes down.

I like playing lazy mode, not so much easy mode: use the same build and same (spammy) approach for all enemies. This is against non-fleshy enemies, casters, melee brutes, spikers, nukers, etc. It doesn't have self-healing or hex/condition removal, but that's what NPC monks are for. The most annoying monsters I've found are the hexing ones, especially encountered en masse. They still die eventually, but just drag the fight out.

Aeon221
11-22-2007, 09:59 PM
Squishies in hardmode go squish. But your group would just zzzz all the way through easy mode, yeah.

Save Yourself and There's Nothing To Fear. It changes everyone from a clothie to a tank. We ran through several hard mode locations in record time.

hong
11-22-2007, 10:13 PM
Also, Aeon: no Critical Eye on your assassin?

Aeon221
11-23-2007, 02:17 AM
No assassins in there, just rangers. Since they've got absurd expertise benefits, I can generally run vamp daggers for the extra damage.

AaronSofaer
11-23-2007, 09:07 AM
War/Mes, 10 Str, 14 Sword, 9 Insp/Dom, with a mes focus instead of a shield

Battle Rage (elite), Standing Slash, Barbarous Slice, Power Attack, Disrupting Blow, Wild Blow, Enraging Charge, (other)



Eeew. No IAS? Battle Rage as your Elite?

Flail for the win, sir.

Aeon221
11-23-2007, 02:16 PM
How could you hate on ragemenders?

Battle Rage (elite), Sever Artery, Gash, Final Thrust, Distracting Blow or Sun and Moon Strike or Wild Blow or Mending Touch, Mending, Watchful Spirit, Res Sig.

Back in the day, we won a ton of GvGs with a team of 8 ragemenders. Epix lols ensued.

AaronSofaer
11-23-2007, 03:05 PM
Because they deal subpar damage, and I bring warriors for damage.

I even used to run a Battle Rage warrior. You could bring Succor and throw it on your Monks in HA; it was pretty useful. Thing is, no IAS = epic fail.

hong
11-23-2007, 05:02 PM
Eeew. No IAS? Battle Rage as your Elite?

Flail for the win, sir.
I kinda suck at getting the monsters to concentrate on me, though. Which means I have to chase them round.

I did put Tiger Stance on Koss, though. Pretty cool watching him hammer away like a mad fool.

hong
11-23-2007, 05:17 PM
Hmm. How does Flurry compare?

AaronSofaer
11-23-2007, 08:36 PM
Eeewwww, Flurry. Why would you bring an IAS that deals -less- damage unless you were a CG ranger?

If you suck at getting monsters to focus on you, run a Cripslash warrior with Flail (for PvE. for PvP, obviously Frenzy.)

That way, you may be snared, but so are they, and if you can't DPS something that's crippled have your Heroes play melee. :P

Sharpe
11-25-2007, 02:39 AM
So I completed my first campaign tonight, Nightfall. The last two missions were stone bitches to do without spoilers. Took 3 tries to get past the Gate of Madness. But I had finetuned my party and was able to beat the last mission on my first try, and with a Master's reward, my time was 17:18. Despite beating it first try, it was tough as heck - I was completely exhausted at the end of the 17 minutes.

A very strong ending to the campaign overall. Nightfall as a plotline was pretty damn good, much better than you usually see in MMO type games. Guild Wars is kinda the single player champ of MMOs :O.

Now onwards (backwards?) to finish Prophecies, then Factions :).

My final party was me (Paragon, with Song of Restoration build), Koss (Cleave build), Melonni (Avatar of Balthazar build), Zhed (Searing Flames build), and then the 2 monk henches plus Cynn and Odurra (Ele and Mesmer). That was probably the strongest combo I had in all of Nightfall. I had been using Olias a ton, but in the higher level stuff his minions just didnt hold up as well, and he was always short on corpses in the realm of torment (not enough corpses to exploit). Once I got the Av of Balth, Melonni became pretty damn potent. Also the mesmer hench seemed pretty useful against the end-stage baddies due to all the nasty abilities they were packing.

And it's 2:38am so GW has delivered that QT3 experience :O.

Night all.

Equis
11-25-2007, 06:36 AM
OK, once the turn of the month hits, I'll be Nightfall.

Who plays what where on qt3?

Aeon221
11-25-2007, 08:38 AM
You're best off playing with heroes and henchmen with the occasional drop in of a human player. For your first time through, I'd recommend a Paragon. They've got the most powerful PvE abilities, and they're pretty easy to grok.

I personally love playing a warrior, but not everyone enjoys them -- those same people cry when I shockwar them into poo. A dervish is a warrior with less versatility and more defensive options, so if you don't get warriors you probably won't get dervs.

Mesmers are universally disliked in PvE, as most of their abilities are high power single target focused -- not helpful in games with large numbers of enemies, but some people love them.

Ranger can be a lot of fun, and the class is very versatile -- you can play pretty much any combat archetype with them, from dagger wielding lunatic to ranger with a hammer to touch ranger (aka ranger with touch necromancer life steal skills). Oh, and you can do some stuff with a bow too :-p

I personally think elementalists are a weak class, but you'll find it extremely easy to get into high end pve with an elementalist -- every party has wood for them because they can do mediocre damage to large numbers of enemies at the same time.

Necromancers are by far the strongest class in the game. Bar none, the best, period, full stop. They're highly limited in what they can do with their primary stuff (minions, curses, and some crummy blood skills), but their primary attribute (tons of free energy when things die) can be used to power a mind bogglingly huge variety of secondary combinations. They're the class that best rewards creativity.

Never play monk in pve.

AaronSofaer
11-25-2007, 09:29 AM
I personally love playing a warrior, but not everyone enjoys them -- those same people cry when I shockwar them into poo. A dervish is a warrior with less versatility and more defensive options, so if you don't get warriors you probably won't get dervs.

And more spiking. Dervishes are the premier melee spikers because they're not Adren-based. PvP-related though.


Mesmers are universally disliked in PvE, as most of their abilities are high power single target focused -- not helpful in games with large numbers of enemies, but some people love them.

You don't need Mesmers till Hard Mode, if then.


Ranger can be a lot of fun, and the class is very versatile -- you can play pretty much any combat archetype with them, from dagger wielding lunatic to ranger with a hammer to touch ranger (aka ranger with touch necromancer life steal skills). Oh, and you can do some stuff with a bow too :-p

And traps.


I personally think elementalists are a weak class, but you'll find it extremely easy to get into high end pve with an elementalist -- every party has wood for them because they can do mediocre damage to large numbers of enemies at the same time.

QFMFT.


Necromancers are by far the strongest class in the game. Bar none, the best, period, full stop. They're highly limited in what they can do with their primary stuff (minions, curses, and some crummy blood skills), but their primary attribute (tons of free energy when things die) can be used to power a mind bogglingly huge variety of secondary combinations. They're the class that best rewards creativity.

In PvE.


Never play monk in pve.

QFMFT. So boring.

Cossix
11-25-2007, 11:31 AM
I dunno, I kind of liked playing the Monk. SOMEONE has to do it.

AaronSofaer
11-25-2007, 01:30 PM
Let the Heroes do it.

I monked through THK on Hardmode a week or so ago. Healer's Boon, Heal Party. Sooo boring.

ARogan
11-25-2007, 08:35 PM
I love elem in PvE (just more my style of play).

Try intensity, glyph of sacrifice, meteor shower, Assassin's Promise.
Tell me that's mediocre damage when you can easily drop 4 meteor showers all within 20 seconds or so and you get into the fight immediately (no 5 sec casts wasting time). AP helps with energy. KD helps mitigate some damage too. Well ok it works well with anything but destroyers.

Equis
11-25-2007, 09:31 PM
I'm thinking of a Dervish/Elemental. Mainly because I just want to do a lot of damage and I like that scythe.

Been reading the wiki. Wow, does Guild Wars have a ton of skills, abilities and things to get use to.

hong
11-26-2007, 05:22 AM
So I completed my first campaign tonight, Nightfall. The last two missions were stone bitches to do without spoilers. Took 3 tries to get past the Gate of Madness. But I had finetuned my party and was able to beat the last mission on my first try, and with a Master's reward, my time was 17:18. Despite beating it first try, it was tough as heck - I was completely exhausted at the end of the 17 minutes.

A very strong ending to the campaign overall. Nightfall as a plotline was pretty damn good, much better than you usually see in MMO type games. Guild Wars is kinda the single player champ of MMOs :O.


Yeah, that's what I've been saying all along. It's great.

BTW Sharpe, I bailed out of the Qt3 guild because I'm having a go at farming Luxon faction so I can get some faction skills. The fastest way to do this is to transfer faction to an alliance, but for this to work, your guild has to be allied with the Luxons. So I made up my own guild for the purpose. Give me about a week.


Now onwards (backwards?) to finish Prophecies, then Factions :).

When you get to Fac, give me a ping. The first mission you get to on the mainland has you pairing up with another team and I'd like to give it another go to get the Master's reward.

Sharpe
11-26-2007, 06:46 AM
I just did that double-team mission last night. Had to give it 3 tries. First try, the other team had 3 human players including a couple 20s but apparently not enough healing - they lost 7 of 8 toons at the 2nd to last big set piece battle. I survived with my entire hench/hero party but was unable to res them (no cross-team rezzing is allowed, apparently). I tried to complete the mission but the remaining member of their team rushed ahead and by the time I joined the final battle Togo and Menhlo were already 90% dead. 2nd try I had one guy on the other team but he apparently wiped on the very first battle and quit. On the 3rd try the second team was made of AIs and we had no trouble. It was an odd experience: the AIs made better team-mates than human players. That might be the first MMO type game where I've ever seen that.

AaronSofaer
11-26-2007, 09:13 AM
Back when Heroes were first implemented, it was a huge issue that the Heroes were better players than 90% of the HAers and thus Heroway took over Heroes' Ascent.

Also happened in GvG to a lesser extent.

That spell that dealt damage conditional upon hex + condition was vicious with heroes.

hong
11-26-2007, 10:28 PM
IME heroes/henchies are great for spamming, focus fire, and interrupts (super reflexes). They also won't charge ahead and get themselves killed, unlike impulsive humans. They tend to fall down when things get more complicated, though. Luckily, you rarely need to get that much more complicated, at least in normal mode PvE.

Elementalist bosses are the bane of my life because the NPCs are too dumb to scatter from the x2 dmg AoE. Yeah, I could flag the heroes manually, but babysitting is boring. I'm also not sure whether to trust them with conditional effects (extra damage vs knocked-down foes, that kind of thing). I suspect they'll happily spam away and fail to take full advantage of the effect. But then, I'm not sure if I'd trust myself to take full advantage either.


That spell that dealt damage conditional upon hex + condition was vicious with heroes.

Which spell is that? Er, for research purposes, you understand.

hong
11-26-2007, 10:32 PM
I love elem in PvE (just more my style of play).

Try intensity, glyph of sacrifice, meteor shower, Assassin's Promise.
Tell me that's mediocre damage when you can easily drop 4 meteor showers all within 20 seconds or so and you get into the fight immediately (no 5 sec casts wasting time). AP helps with energy. KD helps mitigate some damage too. Well ok it works well with anything but destroyers.
What keeps me from running a build like that is the thought of having to wait for 2 minutes afterward getting rid of 4 meteor showers' worth of exhaustion. How do you deal with that?

ARogan
11-26-2007, 11:09 PM
It's not that bad. There are always cool down periods between mobs. You only drop 4 meteor showers if you need it. Most of the time 2 is all you need and then I throw in some firestorm and searing heat which don't cause exhaustion. I played through a lot of GWEN with this build and then switching to a blinding surge build during destroyer missions. It was a lot of fun.

The thing with this build is not so much the ability to throw a ton of meteor showers (though you can when the situation arises), it's how much more useful meteor shower is without that 5 sec cast time (plus you are much harder to interrupt). You usually can get most of the 3 pulses of damage on the mob since it casts pretty much immediately. The tricky part is timing AP but with a little practice it will trigger like 99% of the time (it helps having some heroes and calling the target). Once in a while the hex will get removed and then you are a bit screwed for a while. It's kind of nice to play a build that is a bit less mindless than most other ones(SF) and takes a bit of skill to play well.

eh don't take my word for it. give it a try:
OgdToYm6R6XgYoYAHUZAYAXYBCA

I usually cast:
pre cast fire attunement
glyph of sacrifice
meteor shower
intensity
firestorm
AP
searing heat
immolate until dead.

AP cast order will change according to how quickly your target is dying (and you'll recognize how resilient the different types of enemies are. If your AP target is say a Me better cast AP when they are down to 75% health :-). The trick is to try and use AP as much as possible even if you don't need skills recharged b/c you'll want the energy.

no room for rez but my heroes all carry res chant.

AP combos well with most of the bar but especially intensity, GoS, and meteor shower. I've always liked intensity for the nice boost in damage (and yes it takes effect as soon as it is cast even on DOT spells that have already started, I tested this on the dummies) but the 45sec cool down was killer. With AP you get to use it in every nuke chain.

I experimented with mark of rod (can always stick it on a hero) but that took too much prep work. Usually I wanted a MS out and I wanted it out NOW (it's why intensity is cast after MS so you miss that first pulse though, but then firestorm gets some of the love).
I tried liquid flame for helping to finish an AP hexed target but I think immolate gives more consistent and reliable results with it's shorter cool down period.

I'd say you might screw up AP, or have exhaustion or energy problems maybe once an hour. It really doesn't happen that often. Most of the time you'll just be amazed at the sheer amount of dps over multiple mobs especially when there is a good aggro. That reminds me of that time with the slimes dungeon....not so good aggro. The screen was literally filled with yellow damage numbers but then shortly after that a gazillion mini slimes swarmed us to death. It was pretty funny.

AaronSofaer
11-27-2007, 02:24 PM
IME heroes/henchies are great for spamming, focus fire, and interrupts (super reflexes). They also won't charge ahead and get themselves killed, unlike impulsive humans. They tend to fall down when things get more complicated, though. Luckily, you rarely need to get that much more complicated, at least in normal mode PvE.

Elementalist bosses are the bane of my life because the NPCs are too dumb to scatter from the x2 dmg AoE. Yeah, I could flag the heroes manually, but babysitting is boring. I'm also not sure whether to trust them with conditional effects (extra damage vs knocked-down foes, that kind of thing). I suspect they'll happily spam away and fail to take full advantage of the effect. But then, I'm not sure if I'd trust myself to take full advantage either.

The fact that Heroes don't kite or spread out is why I ran a passive-defense build in Hardmode; why bother having your Heroes kite when they can sit, super-bonded, in triple (or quadruple) wards and wells?

As far as conditionals go, Heroes take decent advantage of them (specifically, they're good at using Gash after a bleed, or that axe when-crippled stuff after Rake, etc) and they are or were very good at using Bull's Strike.

Also, they suck royally at interrupts. Taking a Hero for interrupts is like taking me for interrupts! :) They do fine when they have a bar of skills plus one interrupt, but give them an interrupt bar and they'll miss lots of them, especially Ranger ones. (Except that you can just spam Savage Shot for great win).



Which spell is that? Er, for research purposes, you understand.


It got nerfed. Look it up. I think it might have been called Depravity; it was a Necromancer Elite.

hong
11-27-2007, 03:01 PM
It's not that bad. There are always cool down periods between mobs. You only drop 4 meteor showers if you need it. Most of the time 2 is all you need and then I throw in some firestorm and searing heat which don't cause exhaustion. I played through a lot of GWEN with this build and then switching to a blinding surge build during destroyer missions. It was a lot of fun.

Destroyers are resistant to fire, aren't they? You could bring along a ranger with Winter. Keeping the spirit alive might be tricky, though.

AaronSofaer
11-27-2007, 04:29 PM
Destroyers are resistant to fire, aren't they? You could bring along a ranger with Winter. Keeping the spirit alive might be tricky, though.


Did they nerf spirit range? Used to be radar range, just drop it way back out of the aggro circle.

hong
11-27-2007, 04:44 PM
So, I tried changing my War build last night to get damage up.

"For Great Justice!"
Enraging Charge
Dragon Slash
Power Attack
Tiger Stance
Disrupting Blow
Wild Blow
(other)

The idea is to spam Dragon Slash and Tiger Stance as much as possible, using PA as a backup when DS gets blocked or when FGJ wears off. Thus equipped, I went out into the Jade Sea and started bashing on monsters.

Observations:
- When I get DS and TS going, the spike damage is great (max of 180 in one sec, while testing on the Isle of the Nameless -- twice what the prev build got)
- However, being blocked when spamming DS really throws a spanner in the works
- Also seems a lot more energy-heavy than my prev build: possibly due to excessive use of PA when DS isn't available, and EC to recharge adrenaline
- The cooldown after FGJ wears off is a bit of a bummer, ditto for TS but to a lesser extent

Overall the damage output is good, but it all hinges on being able to spam DS, making it something of a one-trick pony. Blocking stances in particular are annoying, since I lose adrenaline and TS goes down as well. Even if I use Wild Blow, it drains all adrenaline and I have to recharge (it's doubly annoying if it happens when FGJ is down). This can be mitigated by secondary use of PA, but this uses a lot of energy.

AaronSofaer
11-27-2007, 05:11 PM
No DW :(


You don't need Dragon Slash, and you're not powering any other skills with it (ie, other adren-based Sword or Strength skills). Are there any adren-based anti-block skills now from GWEN, or did they not put that one in? If there is, ignore the rest of my post and just take that.

Power Attack is stupidly good (even after they nerf it post-buff) unless they nerfed it again, which I don't remember them doing.


Eviscerate {E}
Power Attack
Flail
Enraging Charge (for Flail)
Rush (as a stance-changer for Flail)
Disrupting Chop / Distracting Blow / Disrupting Dagger (pick one)
Wild Blow (unless you run Expose Defenses)
Blank spot, generally enchant removal.


That's the bar I ran. Axe gives better standard DPS against hardmode mobs due to stronger crits (though not as good as hammer with inherent AP) and Eviscerate is a great Deep Wound, with Power Attack as a retardedly good spammable attack.

No joke, Power Attack at 13 strength is the highest-DPS attack skill in the game except for some Ranger elite I can't remember and some Assassin stuff you can't actually spam without BiP.

(This does not include PvE skills; I never played GW:EN on Live.)


To me, the point of running a Warrior is having an all-the-time IAS and a Deep Wound. If you want raw, sustained damage you can take a Paragon (but no good DW skill) or a Dervish (ditto, also squishy); if you want spike damage, go Assassin (spikes mad crazy with anti-block, but squishy).


For PvP on an Axe Warrior:

Eviscerate {E}
Executioner's Strike
Power Attack
Bull's Strike or Shock (for movement control)
Frenzy
Distracting Blow
Enraging Charge
Res Signet


Most fun bar I've ever played. :)

hong
11-27-2007, 05:46 PM
No DW :(

I have Koss and Morgahn with DW-causing skills. Problem for a sword warrior is that Gash depends on Sever Artery, so it won't work on non-fleshy creatures. I'd prefer not to have to train myself to spam these skills on some monsters, but not on others.



To me, the point of running a Warrior is having an all-the-time IAS and a Deep Wound.

I play a War because I want to use a katana, mang.

AaronSofaer
11-27-2007, 06:28 PM
I have Koss and Morgahn with DW-causing skills. Problem for a sword warrior is that Gash depends on Sever Artery, so it won't work on non-fleshy creatures. I'd prefer not to have to train myself to spam these skills on some monsters, but not on others.

Ah, I see.



I play a War because I want to use a katana, mang.

Haha. Well, I played PvP warriors. No katanas. So meh.

ARogan
11-27-2007, 07:59 PM
Destroyers are resistant to fire, aren't they? You could bring along a ranger with Winter. Keeping the spirit alive might be tricky, though.

I tested that. In fact the two guys I always play with one of them is a ranger. Winter seems to be bugged because the damage gets converted to cold AFTER the effects of armor:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Winter

I know it use to work properly because back when guild wars first came out (elem was my first character) we used winter all the time in the ring of fire and it made a big difference. Not sure when winter broke.

Yeah destroyers are really resistant to fire:
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Talk:Destroyer
My meteor shower does only low 30's damage per pulse against destroyers.

hong
11-28-2007, 03:47 PM
Well, still trying to get a decent IAS build. This is my latest attempt:

Flail
Quivering Blade (elite)
Standing Slash
Power Attack
Distracting Blow
Wild Blow
Enraging Charge
(other)

This build doesn't get shut down if I miss with my attacks or use Wild Blow, unlike with Dragon Slash. To keep people from running away, I switched Zhed to an earth/water build with Unsteady Ground, Deep Freeze and a couple more snares.

It's pretty cool seeing lots of yellow damage numbers flying around, although I'm not sure if I'm actually doing that much more damage overall. I suspect I'm doing less against tanks, compared to the Battle Rage build (since I can't spam +dmg attack skills as effectively) but more against squishies (from the IAS). I also had to give up Searing Flames, Fireball and all that fire magic goodness. But since the squishies are the ones who cause the most trouble, it looks like an overall win.

Also helps to be using Shiro's vampiric sword. :D

ARogan
11-28-2007, 03:57 PM
Played my monk a bit last night which I haven't touched in ages.
Dang did they nerf LoD. It quite literally sucks now with that 2 sec cast and lower healing.
WoH is really nice now. I see no reason to ever carry ZB over WoH (unless you are you are a mixed healer/prot and dead set on bringing Gift of Health). I mean 3 sec recharge, can cast on yourself, nice buff to the healing.

Healing Breeze at 15 sec (+ 20% enchant) on a warrior is kind of funny. You can easily keep 7 pips of health regen up all the time. Just messing around in RA.

hong
11-28-2007, 03:59 PM
I only ever play PvE. Does LoD's new 2sec cast time compared to 1sec make that much of a difference?

ARogan
11-28-2007, 04:06 PM
I only ever play PvE. Does LoD's new 2sec cast time compared to 1sec make that much of a difference? In PvP 2 sec cast time on a monk = death. It really is that bad. You are just asking to be interrupted. People easily die in those 2 seconds. 1 sec already feels kind of longish. I guess you could use holy haste but since they buffed Heal party I guess anet wants everybody to use that with Healer's Boon.

hong
11-28-2007, 04:31 PM
Huh, I never noticed that. Guess I should pay more attention to my heroes' skill bars....

hong
12-02-2007, 08:48 AM
So, has anyone else played the Bonus Mission Pack? It's a pretty impressive set of missions they've put together.

(Semi-spoilers follow, although nothing you won't find out just from reading the quest descriptions or knowing your GW in-game history.)




Gwen's mission is the polar opposite to the usual kill-everything-that-moves philosophy that pervades the rest of GW. As an escaped slave, you don't have a weapon or any offensive skills; if the charr see you, you will die. All your skills are based around sneaking and running, and it feels at times more like playing an adventure game rather than an action-RPG. The closest that you have to a weapon is a rock, for solving a couple of puzzles.

It was a refreshing change of pace, although adventures aren't usually my thing. It's also piqued my curiosity for Eye of the North, which I guess is what Anet were hoping for.

Togo's mission has the most stylised, choreographed feel of the lot. Kill a horde of ninjae, then duel a boss one-on-one (or two-on-one, since you have Talon as a sidekick/meatshield), then more ninjae, then another boss, and so on. But it's in keeping with the genre, I guess; it feels like it's straight out of a chambara movie. You even get a super-AoE skill that, when used right, lets you kill the ninjae in heaps.

(Since when has "Yuri" been a quasi-Asian name though, that's what I want to know.)

Turai's mission sees you fighting through packs of undead before a climactic duel with Palawa Joko in full view of your battling armies. Awesome cutscene at the end. Wasn't there a thread recently about motion blur? Best use of motion blur evar. Okay, it was only a cutscene rather than an in-game effect, but still, best use of motion blur evar. It possibly lost some of its impact because Joko almost killed me before I ran away and spammed Healing Signet for like a minute to recover. But even so, best use of motion blur evar.

Saul's mission was the toughest of the bunch, IMO. The first part, where you sneak past the charr patrols and take down 3 bosses, wasn't too hard. After that was when it got hairy. Huge mobs including multiple eles with Fire Storm equals lots of wipes. You're given Spectral Agony by the mursaat, which kills most monsters in seconds; but I reckon the most valuable skill was Signet of the Unseen Ones, for the AoE damage and knockdown.

I felt bad for Saul. Poor dude got pwned by his masters, even if they did save Kryta from the charr.

hong
12-06-2007, 07:24 AM
Okay, finally started Eye of the North. I've gone from 2 years behind the times to only 2 months. Yay for giant Nordic warrior women in fur bikinis!

MatthewF
12-06-2007, 07:27 AM
The Norn rock. Don't diss the fur bikini!

hong
12-06-2007, 03:08 PM
The Norn rock. Don't diss the fur bikini!

I can just see Jora, Sif and Olaf Olafson belting out such classics of Nordic culture as "Fernando", "Mamma Mia" and "Dancing Queen".



Flail
Quivering Blade (elite)
Standing Slash
Power Attack
Distracting Blow
Wild Blow
Enraging Charge
(other)


I should also mention I'm really liking this build. It got me killed really fast against Lukas in the Norn fighting tournament, but that's a special case. The solo duelling stuff has been a lot of fun, whether with your own build or Kilroy's brawling quests. Beating up a Stone Summit dungeon was great fun, and I survived the punchout tourney by >< this much against an effin' heket paragon.

malkav11
12-06-2007, 08:11 PM
Been back to Guild Wars myself lately. The hero-henchman combination really does make soloing quite doable and Nightfall at least is pretty fun doing so. Though my dogged insistence on doing every sidequest I run into meant I went through certain underlevelled areas *coughZehlonReachcough* more than I really wanted to. The Consulate Docks mission was deeply awesome. And I'm feeling like now that I'm in Kourna the game's finally taken off the training wheels and gotten serious.

So good times await.

Quick question: any difference between the Identification Kit and the Superior Identification Kit other than the latter having four times the usage for the same slot?

hong
12-06-2007, 09:39 PM
Nope, the superior kit does exactly the same thing as the regular kit. It also works out more expensive per use, so stick to the regular kit unless you don't feel like having to buy replacements all the time.

Heron Prior
12-07-2007, 08:52 AM
I can just see Jora, Sif and Olaf Olafson belting out such classics of Nordic culture as "Fernando", "Mamma Mia" and "Dancing Queen".


possibly...or maybe "The Final Countdown." Then again, Sweden has been the de facto Death Metal capitol of the world for the last ten or fifteen years. Maybe they've updated their repertoire.

Aeon221
12-07-2007, 09:01 AM
Sup ID kits are expensive, but handy if you plan to stay in a zone for a long time without access to a merchant -- meaning any of the "elite" missions.

Sharpe
12-09-2007, 05:46 PM
Hong, I popped on today but you weren't on. I did notice that "Mono Furioso" had been on recently (not sure which player that is) so I promoted him/her to officer status so they can invite if you find them.

I'll be back eventually but taking a GW break for now.

hong
12-10-2007, 08:13 AM
I've now done two-thirds of the first part of the primary EotN quest (gaining the Norn and Ebon Vanguard as allies), and have just entered Ewok territory on the Tarnished Coast.

The dungeons are a hoot, although I've only done 3 so far. The fact that you don't get kicked out of the dungeon if you wipe is very welcome. Not quite save-anywhere, but better than save points, ie restarting the dungeon from scratch. Ditto with the primary quests; much less frustrating than regular GW missions.

Can't seem to beat Magni the Bison, but the rest of his tourney is fun. Haven't tried Polymock. The Bear Club for Women quest was damn annoying. Still, I beat down the bear with my default build using a sword, so I'm happy even if the game doesn't think I won.

Nice touch to see the henchies chatting to each other in town instead of standing around like statues.

ARogan
12-10-2007, 08:50 AM
For Magni the Bison try:
Spirit Spammer on Rit Secondary
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Talk:Magni_the_Bison

Mox
12-10-2007, 08:55 AM
I found Polymock to be kind of hard. I think my old age is hampering my interrupt timing reflexes though.

MatthewF
12-10-2007, 09:15 AM
I've done 4 dungeons, and they can get pretty hard. The menagerie is insane. It also takes me, on average, about 3 hours to go from the top level of a dungeon to the bottom -- but at least the boss chests are pretty nice. It's sad but I'm mainly just trying to finish the main quest so I can get my destroyer scythe. By far the biggest and meanest looking scythe in the game. Combine it with Avatar of Balthazar and it makes the warriors look puny (but I guess having the form of a god makes that a bit obvious). I also really want one of these (http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Image:Saurian_Scythe.jpg) but the wiki doesn't say where exactly you get it, just locations.

And yeah, Bison is fucking HARD. The only way I've come close to beating him is by repeatedly blinding him using lightning ele secondary, glimmering mark, and spamming 5 energy lightning attacks at him repeatedly to keep him permanently blind. Using interrupt/knockdowns helps too. I think I got him down to 30% or so before being comepletely out of energy, and then he whacks me twice and I'm dead.

If anyone wants to go on dungeon runs sometimes, my character name is Ark Bladesteele.

Aeon221
12-10-2007, 05:24 PM
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Saurian_Scythe

Always check the unofficial wiki first for that kind of stuff. The people are more dedicated for some reason.

The bison is easy with the spiffed up version of the old earth ele ettin farmer build -- Ether Renewal, Mystic Regen, Kinetic Armor, Earth Attune, Aura of Restoration, Sliver Armor, Stone Daggers, Glyph of Lesser Energy.

I got the silly crown thing and ended up junking it because it looked like butt.

hong
12-10-2007, 06:06 PM
Actually, I did the tourney with my usual build, then with the PvX Bison farmer build (knockdown spam + Dragon Slash), then with Ursan Blessing. Still haven't finished it.

I dunno why they went with so many solo quests in EotN. The whole basis of GW is that it's a team game, with the different classes bringing complementary skills to the party. Maybe the Norn are recovering Diablo addicts.

Aeon221
12-10-2007, 06:11 PM
Lol! I'm not a big fan of the solo aspects either, especially when I found out that Polymock was PvE only. Talk about a total failure on their part.

hong
12-10-2007, 06:36 PM
On an unrelated note, do people have problems with losing their mouse pointer? I don't mean it literally disappears, but it's very easy to lose track of it during a fight: it just doesn't stand out that much against the background. Then you spend precious seconds searching for it so you can flag your henchies out of the area of a Meteor Shower.

ARogan
12-10-2007, 07:21 PM
Yeah that happens to me at least once every time I play. I think it's worse at higher resolutions (1600X1200). I just end up moving my mouse around like mad until I spot it again.

AaronSofaer
12-10-2007, 07:34 PM
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Saurian_Scythe

Always check the unofficial wiki first for that kind of stuff. The people are more dedicated for some reason.


Because the gamewiki wiki came first and its moderator is better. (Assuming Fyren is still moderating it.)

Also, said moderator is probably the most knowledgable person about GW I've ever come across. More than any Dev, no offense, and more than any other player. That helps a lot, because any disagreement, he probably already knows the right answer (or can repro the bug).

Mister Widget
12-10-2007, 07:40 PM
On an unrelated note, do people have problems with losing their mouse pointer? I don't mean it literally disappears, but it's very easy to lose track of it during a fight: it just doesn't stand out that much against the background. Then you spend precious seconds searching for it so you can flag your henchies out of the area of a Meteor Shower.

That happens to me all the time... I consider their mediocre-at-best targeting system to be part of the challenge of the game.

hong
12-10-2007, 07:58 PM
Heh. My targeting system mostly consists of hitting C, Ctrl-Space.

hong
12-15-2007, 01:10 AM
... and I just killed the Great Destroyer, although I admit I took the cheesy way out and interrupt+Pain Inverted him to death. He lasted less than a minute, but in that time he still managed to kill half the party. So maybe it wasn't THAT cheesy.

I also tried the same trick on the Disc of Chaos in the second-last mission, but failed, due to the effin' destroyers of thought and their hex removal. That fight took a LONG time.

It was funny to have the Ebon Vanguard and asura still being all surly to me in the Epilogue, because I hadn't got my title rank high enough. Some people are just never satisfied, I guess. Overall, a very satisfying experience though. Interesting that they've basically written out the possibility of playing dwarves in GW2.

The asura weren't as annoying as I feared they'd be, but I still wonder why Anet thought it was a good idea to have an ewok race in GW. Ewoks with baggy pants and edgy hairstyles, no less. Some of their maps were totally frustrating, especially the dinos. Raptors that block everything, ceratodons with sliver armour (most evil spell evar), super-spike damage from life steal, eegh.

However, THE most extreme map would have to be the SE corner of Sacnoth Valley. Good god, how many fire eles are there? The fact that there's a dungeon in that location is almost irrelevant. Never mind the dungeon, just getting to it intact is an achievement.

Aeon221
12-15-2007, 01:36 AM
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Image:Hex_Eater_Vortex.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Corrupt_Enchantment

And just because they're awesome

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mark_of_Pain
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Barbs

I love the dino maps -- the fights are generally more interesting, and the critters are just so strange looking. Plus, jungles for the win!

But seriously, introduce yourself to corrupt enchant, mark of pain, and barbs. Take that and a minion master and you'll be giggling with glee at all the death. Don't bother with flesh golem, it sucks! Take tainted flesh instead and disease the world!

Another good pick is an assassin with shattering assault. You can give them an unblockable attack attack chain that rips everything apart and works wonders with barbs/mop.

Lifesteal is generally coupled with cruddy damage so your monk should be able to heal through it. The real danger comes from physical damage. Aegis is so smexy. Take it on your necros, take it on your monks, take it on your eles, moar aegis please! Aegis means half the time the enemy is just sitting around crying. Aegis means that your monks have more time (soo crucial) and energy to be spent on dealing with non-physical damage. Aegis means you don't have to worry about physical interrupts.

hong
12-15-2007, 01:41 AM
Yeah, life steal is usually fairly innocuous. However, dinos steal 120 health at a time, plus a deep wound and bleeding on top of it, which is pretty awesome. Especially if they all do it to one guy.

Just as dangerous is the condition-spamming monsters. I never used to worry too much about conditions, until I started fighting those mandragors in Norn country. Cautery Signet became a must-have.

AaronSofaer
12-15-2007, 10:58 AM
Nah, just run an RC N/Mo prot and turn all those conditions into huge healing.

Aeon221
12-15-2007, 04:38 PM
Yeah, life steal is usually fairly innocuous. However, dinos steal 120 health at a time, plus a deep wound and bleeding on top of it, which is pretty awesome. Especially if they all do it to one guy.

Just as dangerous is the condition-spamming monsters. I never used to worry too much about conditions, until I started fighting those mandragors in Norn country. Cautery Signet became a must-have.

The goal is to introduce a large number of targets (the chaff approach) so that npcs won't consolidate on a single target, and to harden essential targets to the point that taking them down is a non-trivial effort. Your method of dealing damage also matters. If you are primarily going with elementalists, this can actually be pretty difficult -- elementalists are designed to have few viable offensive options in the same pool as their defensive options. If you generally rely on melee, conditions, and ritualist weapon spells, this is pretty easy -- you significantly increase your hard targets, you can use conditions that interfere with enemy damage dealing capabilities, and you can stuff in more necromancers.

I prefer to run a necromancer with minion skills as opposed to a minion master -- it lets you get sexy skills like tainted flesh and aegis on their bar. Weapon skills from rits are great -- splinter weapon is brutal at taking down concentrations and warmonger's weapon tears apart high power caster bosses. You generally need to run at least three melee characters to really take advantage of a weapon rit due to the nature of their skills (quick recharge, long duration). Plus, Ancestor's Rage is an awesomesauce targetted nuke, and the more characters you have mixing it up the better.

Mixing up damage styles in this way is great. It puts additional pressure on a monk character, and it ensures that neither prot monks nor heal monks will have an advantage against you. It also prevents permablock characters from being able to significantly mess with your abilities -- so what if they never stop blocking, they'll eventually die from the hexes and the degen they keep putting on themselves.

Hardening a team is best accomplished with multiple copies of aegis and warmonger's weapon. Cutting down interrupt rates and damage from melee (the primary source of damage over time) means that your monks have more energy to spare for non-targeted damage. I generally run henchman monks even in hard mode, if that gives you an idea. Warmonger's weapon stops elemental damage and healers dead. You can't take damage from what never hits. I love it to death.

hong
12-16-2007, 07:33 AM
Nah, just run an RC N/Mo prot and turn all those conditions into huge healing.
What's so good about a radio-controlled Newton-month prototype?

hong
12-16-2007, 08:45 AM
The goal is to introduce a large number of targets (the chaff approach) so that npcs won't consolidate on a single target, and to harden essential targets to the point that taking them down is a non-trivial effort. Your method of dealing damage also matters. If you are primarily going with elementalists, this can actually be pretty difficult -- elementalists are designed to have few viable offensive options in the same pool as their defensive options. If you generally rely on melee, conditions, and ritualist weapon spells, this is pretty easy -- you significantly increase your hard targets, you can use conditions that interfere with enemy damage dealing capabilities, and you can stuff in more necromancers.

Sounds a lot like hard work. Me, I just want to kill stuff.

Note that I'm not complaining that the EotN areas were badly designed or too tough (for the most part -- SE Sacnoth Valley is just silly). It's more that there's variations in how tough they were; some were pretty easy, while others were incredibly hairy. While this is not a Bad Thing (it spices the game up), it does mean that you'll run into things that throw you for a loop the first time out. Now that I've seen what dinos can do, they don't really faze me, but the first time you run into a mob and get hit by 4 Twisting Jaws at once, it's memorable.

Also, there's a difference between frustrating and dangerous. Eg the irukandji ritualists in the Jade Sea aren't particularly dangerous even when encountered in groups, but if you're a meleer, by god is their Binding Chains annoying. In the same category would be incubus air eles, who die easily but spam blindness on you; the equivalent for casters would be packs of wind riders, I guess. Third example: some of the monk bosses in the Prophecies end-missions don't do any damage at all, but take a super-long time to kill.

Conversely, shiroken elementalists are very dangerous if they get their Sliver Armor going. But they're not particularly frustrating, since they're polite enough to get hit, take damage and die (possibly taking you with them). Well, unless they have 2 shiroken monks backing them up, but that's another matter entirely.


I prefer to run a necromancer with minion skills as opposed to a minion master -- it lets you get sexy skills like tainted flesh and aegis on their bar. Weapon skills from rits are great -- splinter weapon is brutal at taking down concentrations and warmonger's weapon tears apart high power caster bosses. You generally need to run at least three melee characters to really take advantage of a weapon rit due to the nature of their skills (quick recharge, long duration). Plus, Ancestor's Rage is an awesomesauce targetted nuke, and the more characters you have mixing it up the better.

Mixing up damage styles in this way is great. It puts additional pressure on a monk character, and it ensures that neither prot monks nor heal monks will have an advantage against you. It also prevents permablock characters from being able to significantly mess with your abilities -- so what if they never stop blocking, they'll eventually die from the hexes and the degen they keep putting on themselves.

Hardening a team is best accomplished with multiple copies of aegis and warmonger's weapon. Cutting down interrupt rates and damage from melee (the primary source of damage over time) means that your monks have more energy to spare for non-targeted damage. I generally run henchman monks even in hard mode, if that gives you an idea. Warmonger's weapon stops elemental damage and healers dead. You can't take damage from what never hits. I love it to death.

Well, the party I used for the last few EotN missions was:

Me (W/Me, as noted above)
Hayda (support/missile fire, with Cautery Signet and a Command build)
Zhed (water/earth, with Eruption, Ward vs Foes, Unsteady Ground and various snares)
Razah (Communing + Channeling, with Shelter, Union, Ancestor's Rage, Warmonger's Weapon and Splinter Weapon)
Herta
Lina
Mhenlo
Talon

Very nice to see all these destroyers running around blind and falling over. I breezed through the 2nd-last EotN mission until the last bit, when I got caught between 2 converging destroyer forces and was overwhelmed; careful pulling saw it out without any more casualties. The Disc of Chaos caused another wipe when I aggroed too many groups at once, but once I got it alone, taking it down was just a matter of time.

I also have Kahmu with Ebon Dust Aura and an earth scythe, but Zhed seems to be more reliable for shutting down meleers via Eruption and Unsteady Ground. Earth magic is great. Not only does it have decent AoE damage and defense spells, but because everyone uses Fire, it also tends to be overlooked when Anet nerfs exploits.

The team is light on hex and enchantment removal, but you don't really need those in the last missions. Interrupting can also be dicey, since Razah doesn't always use Warmonger's Weapon when it's needed. For some of the dungeons where interrupting the boss is a must (eg Dragrimmar, gawd that was a pain), I bring in someone with Broad Head Arrow. IME, that seems to be _the_ most reliable way to shutdown a caster.

Aeon221
12-16-2007, 01:30 PM
Try running Kahmu with Ebon Dust and a spear. It really is absurd how easy it is to shut things down with that in RA, and the damage output is respectable.

I'd personally dump Zhed for something with hexes, and Herta for more melee. As is, you're running dual earth, which has to be hurting your damage output.

I'm guessing you're running Never Surrender and Stand Your Ground on the Paragon, maybe with Fall Back and Go For The Eyes on there -- I'm not a big fan of the command line, so I'm having trouble guessing what use you'd find for it. Speed buffs and some mediocre damage buffs?

Try switching in two necros for Para and Ele heroes, and a warrior hench for your earth hench. Since you already run fairly melee heavy (and presumably like it), I think you'll find that the advantage from the Barbs/Mark of Pain combo alone is well worth losing a few snares and some crummy elemental damage.

I'd be happy to pop on and provide specific bars if you're lost on what to do with necros -- those buggers are complicated as hell, and it takes a loooong time to really see the point.

hong
12-16-2007, 04:11 PM
Try running Kahmu with Ebon Dust and a spear.

No ebon spearhead, mang.


I'd personally dump Zhed for something with hexes, and Herta for more melee. As is, you're running dual earth, which has to be hurting your damage output.

How so? As you said, it mixes up the damage output, plus it's good against blocking monsters like raptors. Besides, Herta has the Wards vs Melee and Elements, which are very useful for survivability.


I'm guessing you're running Never Surrender and Stand Your Ground on the Paragon, maybe with Fall Back and Go For The Eyes on there

Yep, with the exception of Fall Back (no use for speed buffs; I'm not a runner). I already have Morgahn with Motivation, so I figured I'd go with something different with Hayda.


Try switching in two necros for Para and Ele heroes, and a warrior hench for your earth hench. Since you already run fairly melee heavy (and presumably like it), I think you'll find that the advantage from the Barbs/Mark of Pain combo alone is well worth losing a few snares and some crummy elemental damage.

Hayda has Cautery Signet which is also very useful. Don't think I'd want to drop that. Switching one of the necros to a N/E build with Ward vs X, Eruption and Barbs/MoP might be interesting, though.

Aeon221
12-16-2007, 04:17 PM
Aegis is so so so so much better than Wards. Getting two copies onto your heroes isn't that difficult, and you'll never run without it again.

hong
12-16-2007, 04:18 PM
Aegis is so so so so much better than Wards.
Maybe use both?

Aeon221
12-16-2007, 04:33 PM
You could, but it generally isn't a great idea, and especially not when the majority of your damage is coming from mobile sources (in this case, melee range warriors). Aegis allows you to support those damage dealers without tying them down, as wards would.

Obviously this isn't the case in halls, where you'd want Wards + Aegis because redundancy of function is necessary to prevent your system being broken easily. In PvE, where you can pick one or the other, the choice should be the mobile option. The exact same logic explains why N/Rt healers (tied down by spirits) weren't as popular in PvE as they were in PvP, despite the same logic that made them awesome in PvP working doubletime in PvE.

So, Aegis. It sounds crazy but it just might work.

hong
12-16-2007, 04:34 PM
Actually, come to think of it, it's not so much the wards I'm after as the mass blind from Eruption.

hong
12-19-2007, 03:50 AM
(bump for Peter Frazier)

Also, I just did Rragar's Menagerie tonight. Too much offense (2 barragers, 1 BHA ranger, 1 MM, 2 warriors) and not enough defense (Lina and Mhenlo). Went to 60% DP fighting the flesheaters before zapping a powerstone of courage, and then kicked Rragar and Hidesplitter's butts. 3 interrupters was more than enough to render both of them harmless.

Random comments on the dungeons:

- Arachni's dungeon is awesome. Bug-hunting with Hicks, Vasquez and Hudson.

- Is there any way to kill the bosses in the Ooze Pit without at least one wipe from the gazillion mini-oozes?

- Oola's Lab is annoying. Too many traps.

- The first time I went into Bogroot Growths, the heket who's supposed to turn friendly and open the door for you... didn't. I kept pounding on both of them, but they just refused to die. I thought it was a subtle comment on the futility of war and mindless destruction, but no, it was just a bug.

Aeon221
12-19-2007, 11:00 AM
Yeah I love Arachni -- flamethrowers and Aliens references are a definite win. Rragnar's is an easy farm if you've got a human paragon, otherwise you've pretty much got to have a bonder. Luckily the AI can handle that, so just set up a monk with the usual bonder bar and have at.

Peter Frazier
12-23-2007, 08:56 PM
Okay, can someone help me here. I added the key to unlock 'Eye of the North' but I can't find how to access it or roll a character for it. Is it a campaign that my character from Prophecies can do? If so, how?

Equis
12-23-2007, 09:01 PM
Okay, can someone help me here. I added the key to unlock 'Eye of the North' but I can't find how to access it or roll a character for it. Is it a campaign that my character from Prophecies can do? If so, how?

Go to Lion's Arch (from prophecies,), Kaineng City(faction) or Kamadan(Nightfall) and there'll be a guy that sends you on a quest. It usually involves going to a dungeon that's set underneath the city.

Your character must be level 20 to access this quest.

Aeon221
12-23-2007, 09:02 PM
Okay, can someone help me here. I added the key to unlock 'Eye of the North' but I can't find how to access it or roll a character for it. Is it a campaign that my character from Prophecies can do? If so, how?

You can't roll a character for that dude. You have to take a quest and get there. Take your Proph character to Lion's Arch and talk to Len Caldoron (http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Len_Caldoron) and he'll give you a quest to get there.

Peter Frazier
12-23-2007, 10:23 PM
Ah, thanks! I guess I won't be going there any time soon with my level11 necro.

Mark Crump
12-23-2007, 11:55 PM
Ah, thanks! I guess I won't be going there any time soon with my level11 necro.

I thought they recently made it so you had to be level 10, and could get an "Eye of the North Buff" that raised you to level 20 in EotN?

hong
12-24-2007, 05:18 AM
Yeah, now just about everybody can get to GWEN. Not only do you get a catch-up buff, but there's NPCs in the starter outpost who will make max-level weapons and armour for you.

However, IIRC Peter was still in Piken Square when I chatted to him, which was 2 days ago. Better hurry up, mang, or you'll miss the Wintersday celebrations!

hong
12-24-2007, 07:17 AM
Also, I just did the Great Destroyer without resorting to Pain Inverter. Holy shit, that was fun.

Also did Frostmaw's Dungeon. Holy shit, that was not fun.

Aeon221
12-24-2007, 07:14 PM
Also, I just did the Great Destroyer without resorting to Pain Inverter. Holy shit, that was fun.

Also did Frostmaw's Dungeon. Holy shit, that was not fun.

N/Rt healers make it a lot easier, but it really is a campaign of attrition. I found the boss to be the easiest part =(

Jag
12-26-2007, 09:42 AM
Also, I just did the Great Destroyer without resorting to Pain Inverter. Holy shit, that was fun.

Also did Frostmaw's Dungeon. Holy shit, that was not fun.

Finally finished GWEN as well. I did the Great Destroyer this morning before work. Tried it with H/H, but wiped. Got 2 other people and one shotted it. Whole thing took about 20 minutes. Now this is what I really like about GW. In WoW getting a group to kill a final boss could take hours. I was able to to it in minutes. Now to start grinding out EOTN ranks.

Any thoughts on which faction to turn my completed HH into? I'm thinking Norn for upgraded UB.

Aeon221
12-26-2007, 11:02 AM
Finally finished GWEN as well. I did the Great Destroyer this morning before work. Tried it with H/H, but wiped. Got 2 other people and one shotted it. Whole thing took about 20 minutes. Now this is what I really like about GW. In WoW getting a group to kill a final boss could take hours. I was able to to it in minutes. Now to start grinding out EOTN ranks.

Any thoughts on which faction to turn my completed HH into? I'm thinking Norn for upgraded UB.

Asura! You can get cool shades for your character!

Jag
12-26-2007, 11:26 AM
Asura! You can get cool shades for your character!

Was thinking about Asura (although those little buggers annoy me). Upgraded Pain Inverter looks sweet.

BTW, you still owe me some Necro builds (Prophecy/EOTN). Although I think I actually have a decent Blood degen build now with 2 Vampirics, Elite Life Transfer, Life Siphon, YMLAD and some interrupts.

Aeon221
12-26-2007, 12:04 PM
Was thinking about Asura (although those little buggers annoy me). Upgraded Pain Inverter looks sweet.

BTW, you still owe me some Necro builds (Prophecy/EOTN). Although I think I actually have a decent Blood degen build now with 2 Vampirics, Elite Life Transfer, Life Siphon, YMLAD and some interrupts.

I lost all my builds when my computer died, and didn't realize it til I had made the offer. But here are some suggestions:

Life Transfer is bad because it is only 7 or 8 degen and is down for 2 seconds for every 1 you have it up.

You can easily get the same thing by A) not worrying about regen and B) using burning or a combination of hexes that can be maintained.

Necromancer builds are highly dependent on the team you are running with, and on the opponents you are expecting to face. For instance, against small numbers of high strength mostly melee foes, on a team that focuses on melee, you would want to run:

Spiteful Spirit (e), Barbs, Mark of Pain, Reckless Haste, Suffering, utility skill (enchant removal, anti-paragons, signet of lost souls, etc), second utility (Aegis or Glyph of Lesser Energy), Res Skill

This build would completely suck if your team is mostly casters, as you would lose out on the massive power of Barbs/MoP. And if the enemy isn't high strength, they won't last long enough for most of these hexes to have an effect. And if they aren't melee, they won't be attacking often enough for the Spiteful/Reckless combo to do major damage. Aegis is always a good pick on a necromancer, and you'll want your prot at about 9 to run it effectively.

Another option, boring though powerful, is the tainted flesh MM

Tainted Flesh (e), Bone Minions or Jagged Horrors, Rotting Flesh, Putrid Explosion, Well of Suffering, Withering Aura (awesome skill, just awesome), Aegis, Res Skill

As you can see, running these two characters together has a high degree of synergy. Bone minions are great necromancer batteries, and they are also great at setting off barbs/mop. Degen is always a great combo with hexes -- it adds pressure to enemy monks and allows you to keep the kills coming while shutting down most of their damage. And tainted flesh allows you to run disease, a self propagating condition that costs an enemy 8 health per second without them being able to inflict it back on you.

Withering Aura allows a melee character to inflict weakness on every hit. Weakness reduces all attributes by 1 and reduces attack damage by 66%. Put it on a dervish and watch as your foes are reduced to sniveling wrecks.

Straight blood builds are generally weak. Anet knows that being able to do damage while simultaneously healing yourself is a bad thing for game balance, so they purposely made it underpowered. However, there are definitely some fun oddball builds lurking around in there.

One fun bar, cribbed from mesmers is this one:

Auspicious Incantation (use it before Arcane Echo), Arcane Echo (use it before Angorodons Gaze), Angorodons Gaze, Signet of Agony, Awaken the Blood, Icy Veins (e) or Cultist's Fervor (e) or Grenth's Balance (e) or Vampiric Spirit (e), Enchant Strip, Rez

The idea is to spam Angorodons Gaze as fast as you can on a target while keeping a condition on yourself. Hero monks will not be able to handle this, so you can't use this build with them. But give it a shot on a human party, you'll find it is quite fun. Auspicious Incantation can be used before Arcane Echo without impacting the recharge time as Arcane Echo's recharge is reset by the skill it is replaced by. The elite is so varied because this build is intended to be run by mesmers with Mantra of Recovery -- it cuts recharge times by 1/3rd, which is handy but not game breaking. All the elites I suggested will do more than enough to keep you running.

Jag
12-26-2007, 12:28 PM
Very cool, some interesting food for thought here. Yeah, my biggest complaint about Life Transfer was the cooldown time. I don't have access to Auspicious Incantation, but I like Withering Aura. I'm bummed about Blood, it looked so good, I set myself up with 16 in Blood Magic.

I really need to get Factions or Nightfall, but there is so much content I want to do in EOTN/Prophecies, that I can't even think about getting anything else yet.

hong
12-26-2007, 02:47 PM
Finally finished GWEN as well. I did the Great Destroyer this morning before work. Tried it with H/H, but wiped. Got 2 other people and one shotted it. Whole thing took about 20 minutes.

There's 2 skills with the Great Destroyer that you really want to interrupt: the one that summons more destroyers, and the one that submerges him in lava (and regenerates his health). If you can shut these down, you can kill him with H/H. Interrupting is dangerous, because each time you do it, he blasts everyone for heavy damage, so stick to interrupting only these two if possible. Unless you use Pain Inverter, of course, in which case just stick it on him and interrupt him to death.

IIRC when I killed him without PI I went in with 4 monks, plus 2 necro heroes with Spoil Victor and Spiteful Spirit. Unfortunately you'll need Factions for SV, but it's great for taking down bosses with super-high health.


Now this is what I really like about GW. In WoW getting a group to kill a final boss could take hours. I was able to to it in minutes. Now to start grinding out EOTN ranks.

Any thoughts on which faction to turn my completed HH into? I'm thinking Norn for upgraded UB.

Do them all. You can get to dwarf rank 5 without even trying, just by doing the dungeons. In fact, a fast and fun way to get rank is to turn in half-completed Master Dungeon Guides; this will get you to rank 5 with everyone pretty quick, and at least dwarf rank 6.

fenrrris
12-26-2007, 03:53 PM
I've always been curious about Guild Wars and after finding Hellgate a bit undercooked I'm pretty much set to buy in. I'm pretty sure a variant of this question has been answered a hundred times in this thread, but damn this confusing release structure: Which campaigns do I want? Nightfall seems to be the favorite, but there's a reasonably priced ($60) package deal for Eye of the North and the original game. There's also a deal with EotN where (should you buy EotN) you also get any of the other campaigns at 50% off, but apparently in order to do that you need to have an account with at least one campaign already activated. I don't want to buy three campaigns if I can avoid it, but what I want is Nightfall and EotN. I can't seem to find a way to make these bargains work for me.

I'm lost in the muck, but I really want to give the game a shot. Please send help!

Mister Widget
12-26-2007, 04:01 PM
You don't want the EOTN package plus the original box, because EOTN has no starter areas for new characters. Therefore, you'd need to make new characters in the original campaign (Prophecies), which sucks compared to Nightfall.

I'd just get Nightfall and hold off on EOTN for now. You really do want to start with Nightfall, and there's a ton of gameplay in it even if you don't have any other boxes.

fenrrris
12-26-2007, 05:41 PM
Roger. Went with Nightfall. Can't wait to get kickin'. I've been jonzing for a little loot-crazed, Diablo-esque hack and slash ever since...Diablo. All that plus PVP? Sounds like heaven.

Aeon221
12-26-2007, 06:52 PM
Roger. Went with Nightfall. Can't wait to get kickin'. I've been jonzing for a little loot-crazed, Diablo-esque hack and slash ever since...Diablo. All that plus PVP? Sounds like heaven.

Pretty much. Be sure to put a character name on here so that the rest of us can bug you in game!

fenrrris
12-26-2007, 08:58 PM
Name is Magrest Varys, for interested parties. Went with a Ranger for my first character.

I only had a chance to play for thirty or so minutes tonight, but first impressions were very strong. The game seems beautiful. Although, to be fair, this is one of my first games on my new rig: I just love having a hawt PC and instantly commanding, "Set course for Anti-Aliasing 4x. Engage!"

hong
12-26-2007, 09:04 PM
My first char was a warrior who really wanted to be a ranger. This was before I learned about stuff like primary and secondary classes, and how they impacted the skills and gear you could take. I should try out a real ranger sometime, now that my current char has done just about all the single-player content besides Hard Mode. I'm amazed by how much damage Margrid puts out with Glass Arrows, Point Blank Shot, Zojun's Shot and Sloth Hunter Shot (from EotN).

Jag
12-27-2007, 06:39 AM
The only reason I didn't start as a Ranger was due to the fact that I played a hunter for years in WoW and wanted something different.

I really like my Necro, but man is the ranger versatile. I recently made my Ranger Hero a 'touch ranger' and he just devastates everything now. I still have a bunch of EOTN side quests I want to do, so I'm going to stick with the Necro for now.

fenrrris
12-27-2007, 06:56 PM
Jumped to level 5 over an hour or two tonight. I really like the MMO town + empty country-side region feel. It was always a bit disheartening in World of WoWcraft to make an epic noob journey into the wilderness only to find a cluster of characters who were on the exact same quest.

I chose Mesmer for my Secondary class, but I'm not entirely sure how much that'll effect me in the long run. I assume there's a re-spec system in GW. My rudimentary logic: Mesmer seems like a ranged de-buff class and that probably works well with the ranger mission statement. Did I done good?

hong
12-27-2007, 07:26 PM
Jumped to level 5 over an hour or two tonight. I really like the MMO town + empty country-side region feel. It was always a bit disheartening in World of WoWcraft to make an epic noob journey into the wilderness only to find a cluster of characters who were on the exact same quest.

Yeah, the "points-of-light" feel is strong in GW. As in, the towns are little points of light in the midst of a sea of darkness.



I chose Mesmer for my Secondary class, but I'm not entirely sure how much that'll effect me in the long run. I assume there's a re-spec system in GW. My rudimentary logic: Mesmer seems like a ranged de-buff class and that probably works well with the ranger mission statement. Did I done good?

If you're playing Nightfall, you can change your secondary later on, very soon after you get to the mainland. It's part of the primary quest chain so you can't miss it.

Aeon221
12-27-2007, 08:09 PM
I chose Mesmer for my Secondary class, but I'm not entirely sure how much that'll effect me in the long run. I assume there's a re-spec system in GW. My rudimentary logic: Mesmer seems like a ranged de-buff class and that probably works well with the ranger mission statement. Did I done good?

Rangers make fairly poor casters, so it would be frowned upon. A couple years back, R/Me was fairly common as distortion was an excellent stance, but it has since been nerfed into oblivion.

Standard profession combos for rangers are as follows: R/Monk (mending touch, res skills), R/Warrior (hammers mostly, but sometimes swords), R/Paragon (spears and shouts), R/Elementalist (Conjure Fire/Air/Frost with Barrage), R/Necromancer (gimmick touch build) and sometimes R/Dervish (gimmick scythe build).

Also popular, but for Factions enabled characters, are R/Ritualists (splinter weapon!) and R/Assassins (what CAN'T you do with one?).

Don't worry, none of this matters with a newbie character. Just focus on building up your ranger skill library and picking up some decent gear. I'd be happy to grab you a bow, I've got way too much crap as is. Want a candy cane one? ;-)

AaronSofaer
12-27-2007, 11:40 PM
Whatever anyone tries to tell you, the R/W, R/D, and R/P builds (all three physical, Rampage-As-One powered pressure characters) are the only variant Rangers worth running.

Other than those, bust out a bow and shoot stuff up. Don't forget to use a Prep, and make best use of Dual Shot and Forked Arrow as well as whatever bullshit PvE skills Rangers have.

I dunno, I do the Warrior thing of bashing peoples' faces in.


In general, never ever take defensive skills or spec out of your main spec for offensive skills that you can take on someone else; Don't go R/Mo, take a monk. Don't go R/Rit, take a Ritualist.


And none of this matters for the next ten levels. Just make pew pew.

EFlannum
12-28-2007, 12:05 AM
I just have to second the whole Ranger/Ritualist thing. My hero/hench party for going through Eye of the North was 6 rangers and 2 monks... splinter weapon + barrage + a ton of interrupts = fun!

AaronSofaer
12-28-2007, 12:26 AM
I just have to second the whole Ranger/Ritualist thing. My hero/hench party for going through Eye of the North was 6 rangers and 2 monks... splinter weapon + barrage + a ton of interrupts = fun!


That's gotta have been fun, actually. Back in Alpha, the AI was acting all wonky and I never tried doing it through AoE (the mobs would spread out and run away, took forever), just cheesed through it with my powered physical build (just ask Izzy if he remembers me kvetching about Hardmode being too easy xD).

That said, 5 Rangers and 1 Ritualist running Brutal Weapon + Splinter Weapon would probably do better.

Aeon221
12-28-2007, 11:24 AM
That's gotta have been fun, actually. Back in Alpha, the AI was acting all wonky and I never tried doing it through AoE (the mobs would spread out and run away, took forever), just cheesed through it with my powered physical build (just ask Izzy if he remembers me kvetching about Hardmode being too easy xD).

That said, 5 Rangers and 1 Ritualist running Brutal Weapon + Splinter Weapon would probably do better.

One rit can't keep splinter up on the entire team. Not even close. And they reduced duration a while back, so you can't precast it efficiently either.

And brutal weapon with monks? Waste of time. You either cut out protting (lol!) or have a skill that is totally worthless. You could also run it with N/Rts healing, but not with hero/hench.


edit: And R/Mo is worthless? That's the only combo anyone bothers with in gvg! You can't effectively run a burning arrow without mending touch! All the ones I gave are entirely standard answers, they're all frequently used, and they all have mid to great synergy with the profession.

AaronSofaer
12-28-2007, 02:07 PM
edit: And R/Mo is worthless? That's the only combo anyone bothers with in gvg! You can't effectively run a burning arrow without mending touch! All the ones I gave are entirely standard answers, they're all frequently used, and they all have mid to great synergy with the profession.

We're not talking about GvG here, gimme a breka. R/Mo is worthless in PvE in exactly the same way it's worthless in HA; you aren't splitting so who cares?

As far as the Rangers and prot thing goes, why bother with prots on Rangers? One R/P, one R/W, you're sitting there with 120 armor and blocking arrows, who needs prot?


Also, the standard answers often suck (don't even get me -started- on that topic), Splinter Weapon is a lot of Energy and spec points that you could use on other skills from your Primary, and Brutal Weapon is rapine slaughter as far as DPS goes. I didn't know they reduced the duration, though. Shows how in the loop I am.

And people did run non-R/Mo Burning Arrow in GvG. Plague Touch R/N is a better duelist (though worse runner) as is R/A with Signet of Whatever It's Called. There was also a good deal of R/Me during the Hex days for an extra interrupt (Leech Signet) that could hit people through hexes/enchants for hitting Signet of Humility spammers on your Divert Hexes.

Aeon221
12-28-2007, 03:41 PM
Brutal weapon doesn't function with prots. Any enchants on you and it stops working. I'm not even sure where you're getting the 120 armor (? elemental only?) and blocking arrows (shields up is down 2/3rds of the time at best) bit, but it hardly matters if you're blocking arrows when the important DPS is coming straight at your face in the form of melee. You can dodge arrows easily -- you can't dodge an axe to the face.

R/Mo is still valuable for several pve builds, and doesn't hurt any of the major bow based ones that I can think of. Being able to hard rez and pull your own conditions is valuable, specially since you can't always rely on your monk.

Yes, I'm aware that people ran leech sig (and even hex breaker) split rangers, but I didn't feel it merited inclusion, as they were fairly niche choices.

Furthermore, splinter weapon only requires minimal investment (I'd put it at 8 or 9), which still lets you get that all important expertise at 8+1 with points to spare AND you primary attack skill maxed. Since you don't need anything from Wilderness Survival (assuming Barrage... and seriously, apply poison kind of sucks. I get it for covering burning, but man that shit is just weak) or Beast Mastery, you may as well spend them on your secondary. Finally, splinter weapon is five freaking energy. Not a huge investment.

fenrrris
12-28-2007, 04:44 PM
Despite the fact that you guys are speaking erudite nonsense, I'm really starting to love this game. What would put the cherry on the cake is PVP. The only MMOs I've ever played and enjoyed for any significant amount of time are UO and EVE. I realize there probably isn't item loss, but is the PVP model more competent than WoW's blech-fest? Seemed to me that in WoW you were basically worthless without several, specific rare items and even if you had the items the winner was, a lot the time, a foregone conclusion after about ten seconds.

Does GW allow for some give and take? Are the fights actually interesting?

Aeon221
12-28-2007, 05:26 PM
Despite the fact that you guys are speaking erudite nonsense, I'm really starting to love this game. What would put the cherry on the cake is PVP. The only MMOs I've ever played and enjoyed for any significant amount of time are UO and EVE. I realize there probably isn't item loss, but is the PVP model more competent than WoW's blech-fest? Seemed to me that in WoW you were basically worthless without several, specific rare items and even if you had the items the winner was, a lot the time, a foregone conclusion after about ten seconds.

Does GW allow for some give and take? Are the fights actually interesting?

In short form, yes. There is zero disparity between any two users and their access to items. Creating stuff for PvP takes seconds: you create a new character, you click a button, you select your gear and the mods you want on it, and then you click Create! The rest of it plays a lot like a fantasy FPS does, with position and twitch skills playing a big part in who wins. Also important are the builds that teams run, but they're nothing compared to the importance of player skill. GvG is considered an e-sport, with daily tournies qualifying you for the monthly tourny with a $100,000 prize, and you can watch skilled, high level PvP at any time using observer mode (check your options menu to see what key to push). That way you can see for yourself what PvP is like in GW.

Go to your character menu screen and create a new character. Select PvP, pick the class you want (do NOT pick necro, the skills they give you are utter crap) and they'll provide you with most of a bar. Go through the PvP tutorial and unlock some runes (go for the Vigors first) and gear mods (+health is key!). If you do the tutorial stuff, you'll have most of the gear and skills you need to play RA within an hour or so, and after that it is very easy to get more.

Next time you buy a new skill in PvE, notice that a box pops up saying "Skill Unlocked blah blah blah!" That means that you can now use that skill on a PVP character. The same is true for things you ID -- so when you get some colorful weapons drops and ID them, you'll be making yourself more competitive in PVP.

Also helpful is PVX Wiki (just google it, it'll pop up right away). Note! If you like trying out different combos and don't mind wasting time with crappy skills, don't bother looking at this! It will ruin your sense of exploration. The same is true of http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Main_Page -- while it makes things easier, it also takes away the shiny newness of the game. There is plenty of good game left over after the "om nom nom new!" factor, but some people really hate spoilers.

AaronSofaer
12-28-2007, 09:25 PM
Mother .... they changed Splinter Weapon since I last played with it in Guild Wars like a bajillion years ago.

Fuck. I need to read up on skills before I trash them, in case they fix shit.


I know that Brutal Weapon doesn't work with prots. No enchants at all. Yes, I'm aware. Rangers with Watch Yourself! and Stand Your Ground! (let me check to see if they nerfed those... YES THEY DID, HOLY GOD FINALLY!) were perfectly able to tank all the physical damage, especially with the use of a stance like Whirling Defense in combination with the non-stance best IAS in the game.

Blah blah, erudite nonsense.

[tangent]

Damnit, I need to log in again sometime and go over the skills. I can't believe stuff actually got changed, the stuff that I was bitching about for like two years nonstop. Let me guess, they also fixed spirit spam giving energy back? *goes to wiki* GG "whenever a non-spirit creature near you dies".


... and I just made the mistake of asking Leeloof over MSN how balance is. Apparently "Rangerspike" and "shitway" are the two builds played.. wtf is shitway? And how could it possibly be worse than fighting pre-nerf IWAY running OOA/NR/Tranq, or pre-nerf SF?



Anyway, I was about to make some snarky comment about "you may as well just run Paragons instead of Rangers lol!" but then I re-read the changes for their IAS. It's funny that after I quit stuff actually starts getting balanced (at least, so it seems).

Might have to reinstall the damn thing.

hong
12-28-2007, 11:52 PM
Mother .... they changed Splinter Weapon since I last played with it in Guild Wars like a bajillion years ago.

Fuck. I need to read up on skills before I trash them, in case they fix shit.


I know that Brutal Weapon doesn't work with prots. No enchants at all. Yes, I'm aware. Rangers with Watch Yourself! and Stand Your Ground! (let me check to see if they nerfed those... YES THEY DID, HOLY GOD FINALLY!) were perfectly able to tank all the physical damage, especially with the use of a stance like Whirling Defense in combination with the non-stance best IAS in the game.

Blah blah, erudite nonsense.

[tangent]

Damnit, I need to log in again sometime and go over the skills. I can't believe stuff actually got changed, the stuff that I was bitching about for like two years nonstop. Let me guess, they also fixed spirit spam giving energy back? *goes to wiki* GG "whenever a non-spirit creature near you dies".


... and I just made the mistake of asking Leeloof over MSN how balance is. Apparently "Rangerspike" and "shitway" are the two builds played.. wtf is shitway? And how could it possibly be worse than fighting pre-nerf IWAY running OOA/NR/Tranq, or pre-nerf SF?



Anyway, I was about to make some snarky comment about "you may as well just run Paragons instead of Rangers lol!" but then I re-read the changes for their IAS. It's funny that after I quit stuff actually starts getting balanced (at least, so it seems).


See, if you didn't play PvP, you wouldn't have this problem.

hong
12-29-2007, 05:07 AM
... hm, there sure are a lot of ex-Wizards of the Coast people at ArenaNet.

AaronSofaer
12-29-2007, 09:46 AM
See, if you didn't play PvP, you wouldn't have this problem.


That's right. If I didn't play PvP in Guild Wars, I never would have given a shit about the game, and therefore wouldn't have the problem.

If I had somehow given a shit, though, the introduction of the PvE skills in EotN would have totally thrown me off.

hong
12-29-2007, 08:43 PM
That's right. If I didn't play PvP in Guild Wars, I never would have given a shit about the game, and therefore wouldn't have the problem.

AM I A GENUIS OR WAT


If I had somehow given a shit, though, the introduction of the PvE skills in EotN would have totally thrown me off.

Yeah, you don't want to be off when throwing shit. That stuff is sticky.