Best-selling DVD ever...Isn't out yet?

[Murph]

This may just be a rumor, or an urban legend, so don't stone me if it's not 100% true, but I read this and thought it was interesting.

Supposedly, Lord of the Rings (which will be released on August 6th, for those not keeping track) has already out-sold every other DVD, ever, through pre-orders alone. I'm pretty sure this would be the first time a DVD has hit the "Best-selling ever" mark before it was even released.

And I thought it was interesting -- and hopefully true, or else I'll probably have my posting privileges taken away -- and decided to share. If it's not true, it's not my fault.

Note: Half of the reason I'm posting this is to quickly learn whether or not it's true.

[Sean Tudor]

Supposedly, Lord of the Rings (which will be released on August 6th, for those not keeping track) has already out-sold every other DVD, ever, through pre-orders alone. I'm pretty sure this would be the first time a DVD has hit the "Best-selling ever" mark before it was even released.

I am going to wait for the Super Deluxe Special Edition that will be released in November.

[Murph]

I think I'll be buying this one, but then selling it (e-bay or to a friend, something) when the other one comes out, and buying it. No sense in having both at once, but I don't want to wait 'til November, either.

[Anonymous]

Is this thread about 'Driven'??

[mtkafka]

BTW, that chick in Driven (andin Planet of the Apes) is hot. I would sleep with her! :wink:

etc

[Lurker]

Isn't its ebay value going to plummet come November? Of course you really can sell ANYTHING on ebay, and some folks will probably buy it thinking it's the "newest" version.

I think this LOTR situation really stinks, and I don't even care about actually getting LOTR. It's bad enough that in the early DVD days you had to put up with crummy versions of the movies (non-anamorphic, no features, crappy sound...) and then buy the proper special edition remakes. But now they're even re-releasing special eds as ULTIMATE editions with yet more features when sequels hit theaters or whatever (eg. The Mummy, Men in Black...).

LOTR releasing in one version, then another in a few months time, is really the last straw. Doesn't this piss off anyone else?

I guess none of this matters. I actually naively thought that DVD would be the definitively best medium for film we'd get for at least 30 years, but just saw a demonstration as to why HDTV (760p, 1080i etc.) blows it away for quality. Oh well, at least I never built up a VHS collection, so this will only be my first replacement generation.

[Alan Au]

I'll just wait for the 10th-anniversary limited-edition special collector's box-set ultimate game-of-the-year editor's-choice platinum pack re-release. Wait, what were we talking about?

- Alan

[Ben Sones]

LOTR releasing in one version, then another in a few months time, is really the last straw. Doesn't this piss off anyone else?


Why would it? You don't have to buy it. If they hadn't been completely up front and candid about the whole affair, I might find it annoying--if, say, they announced the special edition a few weeks after the release of the regular one. As it is, I don't see anything to be upset over.

[spacemonkey]

Call me a whore, but I'm goint to get BOTH of the first two versions of LOTR on DVD (not the super-duper, free can of Turtle Wax edition that comes out at the same time as the special edition...even I have my limits) and I'll tellya why:

The Original theatrical cut of the film is only available on the DVD that comes out this Tuesday. The upcoming special edition ONLY has the version with 20-30 minutes of additional footage cut into the film, nudging it out of the confines of one disc and onto two.

Call me a whore yet? Whenever you're ready...

[DennyA]

I've never seen official confirmation that the second edition won't have the original theatrical release, though. I thought that was just rumor?

Me, I'm just going to wait for the boxed set of the entire trilogy.

[Brad Grenz]

The 2nd version will also be a lot more expensive, so it shouldn't effect the resale value to much aside from the increase of copies on the used market.

I actually beleive there is some kind of discount, $5 or $10, for people who buy tuesdays version and then buy the later edition.

[Ben Sones]

Call me a whore yet? Whenever you're ready...

Whore.

I'm doing the same thing, though.

[Thierry Nguyen]

The 2nd version will also be a lot more expensive, so it shouldn't effect the resale value to much aside from the increase of copies on the used market.

I actually beleive there is some kind of discount, $5 or $10, for people who buy tuesdays version and then buy the later edition.

The 2nd version averages 25 bucks, so it's not too bad. Then again, I'm the kind of dork that tends to drop 35 bucks on a DVD with the phrase "Criterion" on it, so my perspective is skewed.

[Anonymous]

I actually naively thought that DVD would be the definitively best medium for film we'd get for at least 30 years, but just saw a demonstration as to why HDTV (760p, 1080i etc.) blows it away for quality. Oh well, at least I never built up a VHS collection, so this will only be my first replacement generation.

I'm even more naive with these consumer electronics things. I thought DVD and HDTV didn't 'compete' at all. DVD is a storage medium and HDTV is a display technology (right?). My naive assumption was that together they can activate their wondertwin(tm) powers and take the form of a Rigellian Space-High-Quality-Movie-Playback-Thingie.

Are you saying that DVD doesn't contain image quality that's high enough to take full advantage of HDTV?

Just curious. My family's on the DVD bandwagon but I bet we won't upgrade from NTSC displays for at least 10 years.

[Lurker]

You don't have to buy it. If they hadn't been completely up front and candid about the whole affair, I might find it annoying

I think there's at least a scale here.

1 - Cretinous
LOTR DVD releases now, with absolutely no unveiling of better edition releasing in a few months.

2 - Questionable
LOTR releases with big $46 million advertising campaign, better edition unveiled but generally left for the hardcores to find out about for themselves

3 - Morally flawless
LOTR releases with sticker on DVD case or shelf where it's displayed with message: "Watch for the special release with 30 mins extra footage, coming November 2002!"

The point is, how many people picking up LOTR on an impulse buy or ordering it based on the countless trailers/ads we've been seeing over the past few weeks have any clue that there's going to be a "definitive" version coming in just a few months? It's not even like it's an idea in the pipeline that the director's been considering and may get around to one day - it's all planned.

This point seems proven by the record breaking pre-order sales. I'm sure Amazon.com and whoever else are pushing pre-order discounts for LOTR with no mention of the later edition unless the customer seeks it out.

[James Galimo]

This is the exact sort of situation that makes me glad I use Netflix. I'll rent it now and buy it later. Probably get the PS2 game, The Two Towers as well. I believe it comes out around the same time. Some of those screen shots look quite impressive (for the PS2, that is).

[sellthekids]

i guess not a lot of people have heard of this, so here goes:

Electronics Boutique has a special offer for the pre-order of the LOTR DVD. bring in any two used DVDs that happen to be on their master list of 5,000 and they will give you a new copy of LOTR when it releases next week.

this sounded like BS to me, so i called EB.

me: "will you guys take two used DVDs for LOTR pre-order?"

EB: "yes."

me: "will you take Stargate (the movie - a promo that i got free with my DVD player) and Cats & Dogs (the full screen version that my wife mistakenly bought instead of the widescreen version)?"

EB: "yes."

so, i drove down and sure enough, they took them, made me a receipt (computer printed, with wild prices for the trade-ins) and told me they'd call me next week.

i dunno how many people are doing this, but it certainly would help boost the pre-sales wouldn't it?

enjoy!

[Mark Asher]

Blockbuster has a deal where you buy a $24.95 movie rental card that lets you rent one movie a week for ten weeks and you get the LOTR DVD for free.

[Jason Cross]

I'm going down to Blockbuster.

I mean shit, $2.50 per rental isn't half bad anyway, and renting a movie a week for 10 weeks is child's play.

Are there any weird restrictions, Mark? Like they can only be the 2-day rentals, or not the new releases, or something?

[Erik]

http://www.kia.com/060402.shtml


Individuals who test-drive the new Kia Sorento or any Kia model between August and October, 2002 will receive by mail a free copy of the "The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring" home video or DVD courtesy of Kia.

[Mark Asher]

I'm going down to Blockbuster.

I mean shit, $2.50 per rental isn't half bad anyway, and renting a movie a week for 10 weeks is child's play.

Are there any weird restrictions, Mark? Like they can only be the 2-day rentals, or not the new releases, or something?

I didn't look that closely. Didn't buy one yet. It is just one rental a week, so if you miss a week you probably miss out on the rental. Or something. Still a good deal.

[DavidCPA]

This may be a stupid question, but does the DVD going on sale mean it is available to rent also? If so, I may just rent this version and buy the Special Edition later this year.

I don't have any problems with companies making multiple versions of a DVD as long as they are upfront about it. If you know, you can pick and choose what you buy.

-DavidCPA

[Lando]

Bought the Blockbuster card.

Only restriction is no games.

What a deal, I'm so far behind on movie watching that this will actually save me some money AND catch me up on movies I've missed.

(To give you some idea, the wife and I just watched Traffic....)

[sellthekids]

This may be a stupid question, but does the DVD going on sale mean it is available to rent also? If so, I may just rent this version and buy the Special Edition later this year. -DavidCPA

i was at Blockbuster this morning returning the horrible movie Dragonfly (why do women think Costner makes good movies???) and i asked them. they will have copies of LOTR to rent on release day - Tues, Aug 6th.

[gnmarsh]

to answer the dvd question, no it's not as good as high definition. Won't get into the specifics unless you really care, but it's all about resolution and disk space. Dvd's don't have enough space on them to do high definition. There are high definition dvd's in development using a different kind of lazer, but they are at least 5 years out. There is a format on tape available now, but the recorders run a minumum of 1000 dollars and you need the Jvc version if you want one you can buy movies for. Even there the movies aren't readily available yet.

[Met_K]

to answer the dvd question, no it's not as good as high definition. Won't get into the specifics unless you really care, but it's all about resolution and disk space. Dvd's don't have enough space on them to do high definition. There are high definition dvd's in development using a different kind of lazer, but they are at least 5 years out. There is a format on tape available now, but the recorders run a minumum of 1000 dollars and you need the Jvc version if you want one you can buy movies for. Even there the movies aren't readily available yet.

What are you, fucking retarded? DVD is high definition.

Unless you're one of those people who think high definition is the definitive, all-being, all-ending platform. You know, if high definition were a car it'd be an Excursion. That kind of thing. In that case, no, it's not high definition.

But it is high definition for those out there who don't think they're above the grain. "Laserdisc isn't high definition! I mean, look at it. It's the size of a record. No way that thing could have quality image."

[Jason Cross]

What are you, fucking retarded? DVD is high definition.

Unless you're one of those people who think high definition is the definitive, all-being, all-ending platform. You know, if high definition were a car it'd be an Excursion. That kind of thing. In that case, no, it's not high definition.

But it is high definition for those out there who don't think they're above the grain. "Laserdisc isn't high definition! I mean, look at it. It's the size of a record. No way that thing could have quality image."

I think what he meant was, DVD is far less resolution than the "HDTV" standard.

DVD is 720x480... that's pretty good horizontal resolution, but it's only the vertical resolution of a standard TV. It's progressive scan and all that, and suffers no quality loss like a magentic tape, yadda yadda yadda. But "high definition" in TV terms is 720 vertical lines interlaced at the least. Better yet is 720 progressive scan, and 1080 lines interlaced.

So DVD is not "high definition" in that it's only about the same resolution as a very good standard TV, but less than half the res of an HDTV. The movie studios and media giants and DVD consortium are right now fighting over the new standard for "high definition DVD," which would allow full HDTV resolution. And look pretty damn good.

For the curious, there are two lead proposals:

Proposal 1 is to just use a much better codec than MPEG2 on the same discs as we have today, the two forerunners being Microsoft's upcoming Corona tech MPEG4. The benefit of this is that they could use the same drive mechanisms and DVD manufacturing. High-def DVDs with this would be as cheap as current ones, and the players wouldn't cost any more either. It's all a matter of having slightly better deocder chips in there - a pretty cheap upgrade.

Proposal 2 is to stick with MPEG2 and instead increase the capacity of the DVD to around 27 gigabytes. This is good because they don't have to licence an unproven codec and nobody has to deal with Microsoft (which scares them, though if they'd be better than the MPEG consortium nobody really knows). The downside is that it would mean moving to higher-frequency blue laser drive mechanisms. These are far more expensive and the new high-density DVDs would be far more expensive to produce for a while, until the economies of scale build up.

I'm in favor of the former, but it looks like the blue-laser option is what they're going to go with. High-def DVD players and movies could be on the market for Christmas '03 if they went that route, and while I'm sure they'd charge a premium just becuase they can, we're talking like $50 on the players and $5 on the discs. The blue laser route means no wide player and disc support until late '04 and price premiums at least $1-200 higher on players and $10 on discs.

Microsoft is trying to convince the DVD consortium to go with Corona even if they do change to the blue laser discs for the "best of both worlds." Such a combo would let you put like six hours of HDTV quality video and multiple 5.1 audio tracks on a single disc. Great for all those 2-DVD sets that would then become 1 DVD.

[Brad Grenz]

Ugh, the last thing I want is high def DVDs with the same bit rate limits of current tech. As nifty as MPEG-4 is, it's still lossy compression. What good is a 1080i image if it's plagued by compression artifacts?

[Jason McCullough]

I go looking for HDTV refresh rates, and what do I find?

http://www.audiovideo101.com/dictionary/hdtv.asp

24 hz. Wake me in 30 years, ok?

[Anonymous]

Reading that link, I think you are jumping to conclusions. One of the options is 24 Hz, but it also has 30 and 60 Hz options. Programming does seem to be available at higher refresh rates: CBS is said to be using 1080i, which seems to be 1920x1080x60Hz interlaced.

[Jason McCullough]

The 60hz progressive for the low resolutions is great, but in all likelihood no one's going to broadcast in those. CBS isn't, they're going for the 1080i.

[gnmarsh]

I would be really surprised to see 03 for hd dvd's. The standard isn't set and there is a whole other issue with copyright protection. For whatever reason the major studios's are fighting this one. Until they agree on some form of protection for it none of the manufacturer's are really bothering with making prototypes. That has been the issue with cable and hdtv, though reacently the cable companies appear to have changed their minds there. Really enjoy met k's contribution to the discussion, truly made me laugh. The difference between a dvd and hdtv is readily apparent with a good setup.

[DavidCPA]

Anyone seen the expanded footage yet? WITHOUT SPOILERS, is it worth the extra $$$ to get this version if you already have the theatrical version?

-DavidCPA

[Linoleum]

Well, there is a lot more than just the expanded version on those 4 DVDs :) Plus, at the moment Best Buy has it for $25, and it includes a coupon for seeing Two Towers (which amounts to up to a $10.50 coupon for a movie ticket). If you were planning on seeing TTT anyway, that makes the special edition come out to about $15, plus tax. Not even counting the 4 (!) audio commentaries for the extended cut, I think there are a good 10-15 hours of extras on the other discs. Unless you're really broke or didn't like FOTR in the first place, I can't think of a reason not to get it.

Lino

[DennyA]

Is there a version that includes a time warp for watching those extra four hours when you have a new baby in the house and a time-sucking job? :-) Hell, I'm still two episodes behind on my Tivo'd Sopranos...

Got my copy in the mail today (some killler Buy.com promotion 5 months ago...) and was pleasantly surprised to see the free ticket included.

[Tyjenks]

Is there a version that includes a time warp for watching those extra four hours when you have a new baby in the house and a time-sucking job? :-)

Let me add a hearty "Amen, brother!" to that. I want to pick it up, too, but many a night I have chosen catching up on my PC game playing over watching a movie on TV. After spending sufficient time with my wife, after helping around the house, and after putting the 20 mo. old to bed, I preferred the 2 hrs. in front of my monitor rather than risking it on a movie which is not 100% guaranteed entertainment.

[Jason Becker]

Well I just picked up the 4 disk edition this morning. I only had time to watch the 1st extras disk so far, but its pretty cool. Its a really in depth look at the making of the movie. It starts with a short bio of Tolkein, and then goes on to every diffrent part of its making. From the story to script process to all the design that went on in all the major areas. The Weta Workshop part is amazing. The amount of stuff they made is damn impressive.

Its a no-brainer for anybody who hasn't gotten the first release. IMO its definately worth the extra money with the extended version of the movie and the extras. Plus you get the coupon for a free ticket to the Two Towers good at most movie theater chains.



P.S. Ohh and I also got the Episode II DVD so there all you "Fuck Star Wars" people. :wink:

[Tyjenks]

I assume the set includes the theatrical release and the extended version. Right?

[Jason Becker]

No just the extended release(takes 2 dics since its 3 1/2 hours long now), and 2 discs of extras.

[Tyjenks]

Well what if I want to go back and watch the other one?

***jumps up and down and stomps feet in 2-year old temper tantrum fashion***

Mayhaps, I want to compare the two versions. Now they are forcing me to illegally download the theatrical release.

[Jim F.]

I picked up the theatrical version over at Best Buy a couple of months ago for $13.99. It included a $10 mail in rebate that could be applied to the extended edition. Sooo, in the end, the theatrical version is going to end up costing me $4 after I pick up the 4 disc set and mail in the rebate.

Not sure if they still have the deal going on, but it's worth checking out.

[Met_K]

You won't want to watch the Theatrical Version after you see the Special Edition Version. It's just so much... much... well, in the words of Jeff K: moar bettar. It's fantastic. It's stupendous. It's just damn good.

Although, I am having a problem with Disc 2, between Chapters 11 and 12, when it flips over to 12 from 11, it hangs. Fuckers. It's not the DVD player, either, as it has yet to do this on any other, and it's still a rather nice Sony. For some odd reason, New Line thought it'd be smart to author the DVD like they were a bunch of twelve-year-olds and included a layer-hop right in the middle of the movie. GO NEW LINE!

Gah, anywho. Special Edition, fantastic. Had it for about a week and a half now. God damn is it ever good.

[Wholly Schmidt]

I got my special edition yesterday. I watched the movie last night and really enjoyed it. It felt like there was at least a little bit added to every scene and it didn't make the movie feel longer in any bad way.

As for the extras, wow. Quite exhaustive. I've been on the couch for about five hours this afternoon watching it; I'm about half way onto the second extras disc now. I wonder how the extras for the next two movies will compare. Certainly there will be a lot to talk about specific to the movies, but much of the first extras disc with this edition deals with general things like Tolkien himself or props that would be redundant to address with each release.

Still haven't seen the commentary tracks, after five hours of the appendices I'm gonna give it a few days though before I jump back in.

A question of storage: Could they not have split the audio tracks over the first two discs instead of cutting the movie in half? I don't really know the specifics of the space issues, but if they've got four commentary tracks, Dolby Digital and DTS soundtracks, surely a reorganization of the audio tracks could've allowed for the entire movie to fit on each disc instead of having to swap discs halfway through, right?

[Met_K]

I got my special edition yesterday. I watched the movie last night and really enjoyed it. It felt like there was at least a little bit added to every scene and it didn't make the movie feel longer in any bad way.

As for the extras, wow. Quite exhaustive. I've been on the couch for about five hours this afternoon watching it; I'm about half way onto the second extras disc now. I wonder how the extras for the next two movies will compare. Certainly there will be a lot to talk about specific to the movies, but much of the first extras disc with this edition deals with general things like Tolkien himself or props that would be redundant to address with each release.

Still haven't seen the commentary tracks, after five hours of the appendices I'm gonna give it a few days though before I jump back in.

A question of storage: Could they not have split the audio tracks over the first two discs instead of cutting the movie in half? I don't really know the specifics of the space issues, but if they've got four commentary tracks, Dolby Digital and DTS soundtracks, surely a reorganization of the audio tracks could've allowed for the entire movie to fit on each disc instead of having to swap discs halfway through, right?

Splitting the dvd over two discs serves two purposes: So they can fit all the commentary and audio options in full on both discs, and to give normal people without asses of steel to be able to watch the whole thing. Intermissions are a God-Send (tm).

[Wholly Schmidt]

For the first point that seems completely backwards. Wouldn't you rather decide what audio track you want to hear and then hear the whole thing without swapping? As for the intermission, is the pause button really that painful? Admittedly, getting up and swapping DVD's isn't that painful, it just seemed the sillier way of doing things.

[Met_K]

For the first point that seems completely backwards. Wouldn't you rather decide what audio track you want to hear and then hear the whole thing without swapping? As for the intermission, is the pause button really that painful? Admittedly, getting up and swapping DVD's isn't that painful, it just seemed the sillier way of doing things.

Okay, I'll end this argument by saying one thing: On the fly audio swapping. Can't do that with two discs with the seperate audio, can ya?

[Wholly Schmidt]

Who wants to on-the-fly swap audio commentaries? All you're doing is pointing out the very small conveniences that don't quite balance out the inconvenience of having to swap discs half way through whatever viewing I choose. It know this is all really petty to be arguing about, but come on, do you really value jumping mid-sentence from what Elijah Wood has to say to what that Reynolds fellow from Weta with the annoying voice has to say?

[Met_K]

Er, no, not on-the-fly audio commentaries, Wholly, on-the-fly DTS 6.1 to 5.1 to Dolby Stereo to etc etc etc.

It really is a petty inconvenience, either way you look at it, so it can't really be argued towards either direction.

[Brad Grenz]

Splitting the dvd over two discs serves two purposes: So they can fit all the commentary and audio options in full on both discs, and to give normal people without asses of steel to be able to watch the whole thing. Intermissions are a God-Send (tm).

The video was also recompressed with a higher bit rate than the theatrical cut. I swear to god it looks better, even on my sissy-ass setup.

[Met_K]

Splitting the dvd over two discs serves two purposes: So they can fit all the commentary and audio options in full on both discs, and to give normal people without asses of steel to be able to watch the whole thing. Intermissions are a God-Send (tm).

The video was also recompressed with a higher bit rate than the theatrical cut. I swear to god it looks better, even on my sissy-ass setup.

Oh, it was? That might also explain why it's making older dvd players (even those which were once top of the line) hiccup when it layer-hops. Gah, way to fuck up, New Line.

But yes, it does look gooood.

[Wholly Schmidt]

Weird about the hiccups, it plays flawlessly on my Xbox of all things.

[Anonymous]

Just picked up the special edition today at Borders(on sale for $30.00-pretty good deal).It does,indeed,look beautiful.I am about midway through viewing the movie now,haven't checked out any of the extras.

[graller]

Best Buy - 24.99 although the sticker on the box said 29.99
:wink:

[Chris Nahr]

Okay, I got it. The one with the iron-cast bookstands, no less. :D

Unfortunately I'll have to get a US speical edition without bookstands in addition to my German edition with bookstands because the bastards decided there was no room for two DTS tracks... so I only have DTS for the German dubbing. :cry:

Anyway, the additional scenes are not quite what I was hoping for. Jackson didn't replicate the missing dialogue and background from the book; he just provided some more hints and pointers. The only sequences that received major enhancements were Lothlorien and the introduction -- now with Bilbo Baggins talking about Hobbits.

The rest, including Elrond's council (which surprised me), only received a few extra seconds here and there. They are welcome and certainly help to flesh out the film but they are generally so short as to be easily overlooked. Oh well, at least we got a couple of commentary tracks...

[Anonymous]

"Okay, I got it. The one with the iron-cast bookstands, no less. "

Wow,that was $72.00 at Borders!:) A friend of mine bought it also-it has 5 discs-any idea what's on the fifth?

I've watched the entire movie,and I was happy with the fleshed out scenes in Lorien,but disappointed that there's not more on the council of Elrond-they probably thought the council would be too dull for the average viewer.

I'd agree with those who say the added scenes didn't make the movie feel longer-I wish they had released the movie with all the cut scenes.I'm pretty psyched to see TTT now....

[Bub, Andrew]

Wow,that was $72.00 at Borders!:) A friend of mine bought it also-it has 5 discs-any idea what's on the fifth?


I got that one too (heh, I got it because I've been half-heartedly looking for bookends anyway). The fifth disc is that National Geographic special. It's shrinkwrapped seperately from the rest of the package. Also, it's only about $59 at Amazon... and now my books aren't falling over on my shelf. Happiness at last!

[Murph]

I sure thought this wasn't gonna be released until the 21st. I'll have to have my wife pick me up a copy when she's out tomorrow. :)

[Chris Nahr]

Wow,that was $72.00 at Borders!:) A friend of mine bought it also-it has 5 discs-any idea what's on the fifth?

I got the cheap Amazon edition for 59 euros and no shipping costs. :)

The whole package consists of the regular Special Edition (the cardboard box with 4 discs) plus the bookstands, an abbreviated version of the LOTR fanclub magazine, some trading cards, and the fifth disc you mentioned.

This is an hour-long National Geographic feature about Tolkien's life and sources, Jackson's shooting locations in New Zealand, and assorted tidbits from the production. It's packaged separately in a normal DVD case. I have yet to watch it; that's just the description from the back of the case. I think this DVD is also available separately, by the way.

[Chris Nahr]

Eh... don't bother with the National Geographic feature. Horrible pile of pop science junk with very little interesting information and few pictures I haven't seen before. They end with an eco nut on a journey across Africa somehow intended to show how much he cares for the environment, and he believes this is a modern equivalent to Frodo's quest -- I'm not kidding you! Maybe Jason McCullough will enjoy it.

[graller]

Having spent today watching the extended movie and then wading thru the added content I can say this is well worth the purchase. I thought the additions to the movie made a huge difference...little things like Isildur putting the ring on and showing him invisible as he crawled into the river, and then the ring betraying him by sliding off. LothLorien was hugely different and made so much more sense then before. Those were the only scenes in the original where I had to explain to my wife the back story. The scenes they added made everything much clearer. Gimli asking for a lock of Galadriel's hair was priceless.

[Murph]

I thought the additions to the movie made a huge difference

I agree. I expected to agree with at least most of the decision Jackson made when it came to cutting, as he seems to have a great vision of what this movie really should be, but...That Special Extended Version is exactly what should have been released in theaters, if you ask me. Almost every scene had a little something extra, and in almost every case it made a big difference. Added depth to the characters, the conflict (and kinship) between Boromir and Aragorn, and, of course, the giving of the gifts to the fellowship. (I'm really bummed by the fact that, according to almost everything I've heard, the scouring of the Shire is not in the movie -- cryin' shame, as that was one of my favorite chapters in the last book. Anyway, I'm reminded of that because Galadriel never game Sam the box of soil... :( )

Wonderful, wonderful stuff. Everyone should see this version.

[Tyjenks]

Hypothetically, what would all of you do if someone was to volunteer that he/she still has not seen either version in the theater or at home? How soundly would said person be verbally beaten about the head and neck?

I have 'a friend' who posts on this board, as well, who wanted to ask if it was worth going back and watching the theatrical release before watching the new extended version. He/She would ask himself/herself, but is highly embarrassed by the whole situation and is vacationing in Greenland right now.

[Bub, Andrew]

Tell your "friend" that doing that, would be a lot like asking if you should read the abridged version of a book and then reading the book.

[Murph]

I concur. If you haven't seen -- excuse me, I mean, if your friend hasn't seen -- it at all, the Special Extended version is the place to start. Absolutely every inclusion was a good one.

So, if Ty's friend is reading this: Watch the extended version as soon as is humanly possible.


Hypothetically, what would all of you do if someone was to volunteer that he/she still has not seen either version in the theater or at home? How soundly would said person be verbally beaten about the head and neck?

I'd be reeling from shock for so long that said person would probably have plenty of time to run.

Seriously, all I can say is "What are you waiting for???"

[Tyjenks]

Thanks.

I can't believe you guys cracked the code. :)

New baby and wife working nights and weekends prevented me from seeing it at the theater and every time I went to purchase the DVD, I would tell myself to be patient and wait for the GOTY edition which was coming in November. AoM is keeping busy now, as well as finding 3-4 hours of uninterrupted TV vegging time.

[Murph]

We'll forgive you, this time. (Well, I will -- I suppose I can't speak for everyone here.)

But really -- make this a priority. You can skip sleeping just one night. :)

[Tyjenks]

Whaddya think I have been doing with AoM? :)

[Murph]

Whaddya think I have been doing with AoM?

Well, based on what you've said in other threads...Losing a lot? :)

[Tyjenks]

OUCH! A jab at my RTS skills. That does it! I am giving up games and just watch movies with every free minute of my time.

First up : LOTR: The P. Diddy re-mix.

I hope you are happy.

[Joe O'Malley]

My video store told me that the extended LOTR was not going to be offered through rental outlets. Can anyone confirm that for me?

[Chris Nahr]

No, but I can tell you that I just finished watching the monumental two-disk documentation, and it's the best freaking documentation I've ever seen made for a film. With the possible exception of the one they did for Citizen Kane.

The models, props, and special effects Jackson's Weta Workshop did for this movie are simply incredible. I was shocked to see that the hobbits are actually regular-sized people who were shrunk by optical tricks or doubled when necessary! I wonder if it wouldn't have been easier to hire short actors instead, as in Willow, but the tricks work so well and the hobbit actors all perform so splendidly that it's hard to question the decision.

The visual detail on the various items and models crosses the line to obession in more than a few cases. There are Elvish inscriptions on the sword hilts of all main characters, and the Argonath statues show brick outlines at their top where they couldn't have been carved out of the nearby rock! And if this wasn't enough, the model actually shows the remains of the quarry where those imaginary stones presumably came from...

Someone should have told the Weta boss to speak in a normal voice, though. :wink:

[Wholly Schmidt]

Ugh, you noticed that too? Richard Taylor's (Weta guy) voice was grating on me after about 30 minutes; by the end of his talk I was wondering how I'm ever going to sit through the commentary track with him on it.

[Murph]

OUCH! A jab at my RTS skills. That does it! I am giving up games and just watch movies with every free minute of my time.

First up : LOTR: The P. Diddy re-mix.

I hope you are happy.

Aw, come now! It's not that serious. I'm quite confident that you could totally spank me in AoM. Warcraft III, though, maybe not...

[Brad Grenz]

Yeah, the documentaries were great. I watched both strait through. I come away with the impression that Viggo Mortensen is the coolest guy ever. The commentary with Peter Jackson and the other writers was really interesting. Lots of insight into why they made the changes they did. The commentary with the cast was entertaining as well. Billy Boyd and Dominic Monaghan are really funny. I haven't gotten around to the other two commentaries yet, though. I'm pretty hyped up about the Two Towers and the extended DVD version of the Two Towers now. The November release date for this 4 disc set was some really slick marketing, if you ask me.

[Jason Becker]

The director/writer commentary was well done. They did a good job of putting all the scenes in perspective, and why changes were made or scenes deleted.

Have to give Viggo Mortensen some serious props for jumping into a project of that size with no notice and doing a terrific job. What a phone call to get "Hey Viggo, this is Peter Jackson. You want to come to New Zealand for the next 15 months to shoot 3 movies at once?....Yea you have to decide today".

[Anonymous]

In the Special Edition for Fellowship, something really bugged me.

When Frodo wakes up in Rivendale, Gandalf says something strange - the subtitles say "a few more hours and you would have been beyond our aid" which is the line I remember from the original film.

But: it is clearly not what he says. I can't quite make it out, but it sounds like he says "a few more hours and you would have been M.I.A." Which is a really dumb thing for Gandalf say.

The end of the line also is sonically different than the beginning; McKellan's voice actually sounds different. Could it have been ADR that they fixed, and then forgot to re-fix for the special edition?

[Murph]

Interesting...I remember hearing "beyond our aid" in the special edition, too, but it's on loan to my mother-in-law right now, so I can't check.

Interesting indeed...

[Chris Nahr]

God, is this movie good. I tried listening to the commentary but when Cate Blanchett started "The world has changed..." I just had to switch back to glorious DTS 6.1 immediately and watched both DVDs without commentary. Again. All right, I admit it -- this is the best fantasy film ever made.

The additions in the extended versions are subtle but very effective. The most important improvement in this version is the DTS sound, though. I haven't previously noticed just how excellent the music is. It's playing along in almost every scene, though often subdued and hard to keep track of without DTS, and there is absolutely no identical repetition of any sequence in the entire three hours!

Haven't thought of listening to the "MIA" thing, but here are some other questions that need answering:

1. How does Sam manage to always have fresh sausage handy in the middle of nowhere?

2. Does Tolkien specify anywhere that Elvish or Numenorean names should be pronounced with a hard R, as in the film?

[Anonymous]

God, is this movie good. I tried listening to the commentary but when Cate Blanchett started "The world has changed..." I just had to switch back to glorious DTS 6.1 immediately and watched both DVDs without commentary. Again. All right, I admit it -- this is the best fantasy film ever made.

The additions in the extended versions are subtle but very effective. The most important improvement in this version is the DTS sound, though. I haven't previously noticed just how excellent the music is. It's playing along in almost every scene, though often subdued and hard to keep track of without DTS, and there is absolutely no identical repetition of any sequence in the entire three hours!

Haven't thought of listening to the "MIA" thing, but here are some other questions that need answering:

1. How does Sam manage to always have fresh sausage handy in the middle of nowhere?

2. Does Tolkien specify anywhere that Elvish or Numenorean names should be pronounced with a hard R, as in the film?

I agree that this version of the movie is *much* better than the theater release.I was somewhat disappointed in the movie on first release,but the fleshed out scenes do nothing but improve it.I still have minor gripes over a few scenes which were needlessly changed,not for the better,from the books,but by and large it's a wonderful work.

I don't know the answer on the Elvish pronunciation,but I had another linguistic question:I seem to recall that the LOTR appendix indicated that the Dwarvish 'Kh' was pronounced as 'ch'(as in 'char),but in the film,they pronounce 'Khazad Dum' with a hard 'K'.Are they right or wrong?

[Anonymous]

D'oh.The above is by me,if it matters....

[Chris Nahr]

I don't know the answer on the Elvish pronunciation,but I had another linguistic question:I seem to recall that the LOTR appendix indicated that the Dwarvish 'Kh' was pronounced as 'ch'(as in 'char),but in the film,they pronounce 'Khazad Dum' with a hard 'K'.Are they right or wrong?

They are right. There's a special note on Dwarvish pronunciation in Appendix E (Writing and Spelling), near the end of Section 1 (Pronunciation of Words and Names):

"In Dwarvish, which did not possess the sounds represented above by th and ch (kh), th and kh are aspirates, that is t or k followed by an h, more or less as in backhand, outhouse."

While I was at it I looked up my earlier question about the R consonant. Tolkien merely says that it was "trilled" in all positions and never silent, and that some orcs and dwarves used a "back or uvular sound" (probably like French?) He doesn't indicate whether the R should be soft as in English or hard as in German.

[Bub, Andrew]

My wife was pretty fascinated by the appendices but she said, "I can't imagine people caring this much about details." I referred her to this thread and Chris Nahr's posts and now she can imagine it.

True story, & no offense intended Nahr.

[Desslock]

I love the appendices. They explain a lot of stuff that happens outside the scope of the book (like the battles in Rivendale and Lorien).

[Jason Becker]

The Two Towers is on the cover of this weeks Time. There's 2 small articles in it. One on LOTR, and the other is on rise of fantasy in recent years. Seems there's several movies and such in the works from various fantasy books/series. Not surprising to see the inevitable tidal wave of clones with the commercial success of Potter and the LOTR.

[Bub, Andrew]

I love the appendices. They explain a lot of stuff that happens outside the scope of the book (like the battles in Rivendale and Lorien).

I meant the DVD appendices Stefan, five hours of surprisingly compelling documentary.

[mtkafka]

Watching the DVD documentaries... making movies doesnt look fun at all (everybody was hardcore tolkien realism)... too much work! though was cool to hear about the guy playing Aragorn was into carrying his sword all the time. What a nutball! Maybe he played too much DnD on the set.

great dvd though. the additional scenes give much more depth to the characters.

I wonder if they're going to do the same thing for the next two movies... a special edition dvd with additional scenes. I'd love a complete dvd set of all three movies with the same production as the fotr se. hmm, that'll be two years away abouts. Not too far away!

etc

[Brad Grenz]

I wonder if they're going to do the same thing for the next two movies... a special edition dvd with additional scenes. I'd love a complete dvd set of all three movies with the same production as the fotr se. hmm, that'll be two years away abouts. Not too far away!

I imagine they will. Just by virtue of trying to get each movie under three hours long there'll be good stuff cut from each. I bet they'll do a theatrical release followed by an extended version for each film on about the same schedule. A complete gift set once all is said and done isn't far fetched at all, but I doubt I'll be buying. Hopefully they won't add stuff again out of respect for the people who've already bought both versions of each of the 3 movies. I guess they can go ahead and do an HD-DVD set down the line.

[mtkafka]

Check this out from Gamespy...

http://www.gamespy.com/articles/november02/twotowers/

"There are a lot of shots in which the foreground guys, mid-ground guys, and background guys are all computer-generated," says Scott. "You might have seen in the trailers a scene in which the Uruk-Hai are climbing up ladders and pulling guys from the top. All of the creatures in that shot are computer-generated."

But the final battle is yet to come. The battle at Helm's Deep shows armies of 10,000 fighting. According to people working on the movies, the final battle in The Return of the King, the third movie in the series, will have scenes with 100,000 people battling on screen."

This movie is epic! I wonder how Star Wars Episode III will top this. Though after watching the second episode on DVD recently... I'm starting to 'get' what Lucas is doing. He's making Star Wars the quintessential American epic... complete with the snot nosed kid. I guess all I'm saying is that Episode 2 was pretty good on recent viewing... I'm sorry Lucas for doubting your dumb butt. Still, the JarJar was the dumbest thing since Ewoks!

etc

[DennyA]

Okay, posting this just to make all you guys with older kids nostalgic about the "new baby days."

Dawn and I *just* finally got a four-hour block (well, with about an hour of "get the baby to sleep and clean the kitchen" intermission) to watch the LOTR Special Extended Edition DVD last night.

Now I just need to find time to go see The Two Towers. :-)

[Sean Tudor]

Dawn and I *just* finally got a four-hour block (well, with about an hour of "get the baby to sleep and clean the kitchen" intermission) to watch the LOTR Special Extended Edition DVD last night.

Now I just need to find time to go see The Two Towers. :-)

Do you have time for games anymore Denny ? :wink:

[DennyA]

Do you have time for games anymore Denny ? :wink:

Oh, sure... Games are easy, because you can do them in bursts. Getting 15 minutes or an hour here and there is easy. It's getting time for a four-hour movie that's darn near impossible!

I've played the heck out of CFS3, IL2:FB beta, and am diving into AOM now. But those games all fit into "nap time" periods. :)

[Sean Tudor]

IL2:FB beta

So what are your thoughts on the IL2:FB beta ?

[DennyA]

More of the same creamy goodness that made IL2 such a tasty treat.

If they'd included an option for a decent padlock I'd love it, instead of liking it a whole, whole, whole lot.

Campaign generator does a good job creating interesting missions, although I'd like to see more "random" units in the skies. Never ran across another dogfight or a friendly planes limping home...

The AI is MUCH better, though, which really makes the combat more interesting. Enemy planes are more challenging, and damaged planes don't circle AA emplacements to the death anymore.

[Sean Tudor]

If they'd included an option for a decent padlock I'd love it, instead of liking it a whole, whole, whole lot.

I have never used padlock in IL2. I prefer hat panning. When the next version of TrackIR comes out with better deadzone control I will use that.


Campaign generator does a good job creating interesting missions, although I'd like to see more "random" units in the skies. Never ran across another dogfight or a friendly planes limping home...

The AI is MUCH better, though, which really makes the combat more interesting. Enemy planes are more challenging, and damaged planes don't circle AA emplacements to the death anymore.

Good stuff. I can't wait to try the multi-position bombers online. Should be a blast !

[TimElhajj]

When the next version of TrackIR comes out with better deadzone control I will use that.

Wow, Sean. What is this pray tell? I really love flight sims but haven't been following the newsgroups much for a while now, and this sounds like something that only a flight sim fanatic would love.

[Sean Tudor]

When the next version of TrackIR comes out with better deadzone control I will use that.

Wow, Sean. What is this pray tell? I really love flight sims but haven't been following the newsgroups much for a while now, and this sounds like something that only a flight sim fanatic would love.

Tim,

NaturalPoint trackIR (http://games.naturalpoint.com/products/overview.html) is a head-tracking system that allows you to move your head to look at a certain point on your monitor. To quote the website "Check your six with a slight turn of the head. Follow the enemy without taking your hands off the stick."

and

"The trackIR is the only head tracking system that works without a headset or any other hardware attached to you. Just peal off one of our tiny reflective dot stickers, put the trackIR unit on top of your monitor, and take control!"

[Tyjenks]

Do you have time for games anymore Denny ? :wink:

Oh, sure... Games are easy, because you can do them in bursts. Getting 15 minutes or an hour here and there is easy. It's getting time for a four-hour movie that's darn near impossible!

I've played the heck out of CFS3, IL2:FB beta, and am diving into AOM now. But those games all fit into "nap time" periods. :)

Let me add a hearty, "Amen, brother!" I have had the exact same trouble finding the time to watch LotR and movies in general. Oft times, PC games win out over movie watching and since my cute, little 22 month old came into the world, we have seen precious few movies at a theater and not too many at home. What in the hell did I do with all that free time before!?!?!

[Slothrop]

When the next version of TrackIR comes out with better deadzone control I will use that.

Wow, Sean. What is this pray tell? I really love flight sims but haven't been following the newsgroups much for a while now, and this sounds like something that only a flight sim fanatic would love.

Tim,

NaturalPoint trackIR (http://games.naturalpoint.com/products/overview.html) is a head-tracking system that allows you to move your head to look at a certain point on your monitor. To quote the website "Check your six with a slight turn of the head. Follow the enemy without taking your hands off the stick."

and

"The trackIR is the only head tracking system that works without a headset or any other hardware attached to you. Just peal off one of our tiny reflective dot stickers, put the trackIR unit on top of your monitor, and take control!"

Would you be sticking this "tiny reflective dot sticker" on your forehead? Because I think that is nifty, and I know I would never forget to peel it off before I left the house. :P

[TimElhajj]

Would you be sticking this "tiny reflective dot sticker" on your forehead? Because I think that is nifty, and I know I would never forget to peel it off before I left the house. :P

Lol, I thought of that too. People might mistake you for an Indian.

[Sean Tudor]

Would you be sticking this "tiny reflective dot sticker" on your forehead? Because I think that is nifty, and I know I would never forget to peel it off before I left the house. :P

Hehe - I think most simmers would put the dot on their headset mics. That's what I will do when I get my trackIR.