Quiet suburb - Do your cats live indoors or outdoors?

[barstein]

This grew out of a painful phone discussion last night, while I should have been playing more BioShock, with a friend I've known for many years who finally revealed himself as the single biggest curmudgeon on the topic (he's against letting them out) I've ever come across. He only conceded that it's sometimes situational when he realized I would probably call him batshit crazy if he didn't throw me some kind of biscuit, but even then it was followed up with a "Would you let your dog run around like that?".

Alas, it was inevitable, our gentlemanly, reasonable telephone fireside dialogs may have turned a corner. On the other hand, I finally get to brandish a poker and chase someone around with it! Still not as fun as BioShock, though.

[Hawkeye Fierce]

Most vets will advise against letting cats outside. I live in an urban apartment, so it's a moot point for me, but I'd tend to go with what the vet says.

[Mr_PeaCH]

As I see it, the first mark against letting cats out-of-doors (and we're assuming cats with claws, right?) is that they tend to wreak havoc with the indigenous bird and critter populations. The second is that they (the cats) tend to become tasty treats for the larger, predatory indigenous populations like coyotes. In my mind, those two just cancel each other out. Live and let die.

(My wife is a cat person and we've had (outside) cats for the last 10+ years. Even she is tired of them now, though. Dogs rule.)

[Gordon Cameron]

When I was a lad back in Great Barrington, Massachusetts (pop. ~8000) we had a big yard and let our cats out quite a bit. In retrospect it may not have been very wise, as several of them got creamed by cars that barreled down a road adjacent to our lawn.

[barstein]

Argument against appears to be: Cats can't defend themselves against gas-powered vehicles, cat-haters and their canine counterparts, chemicals, parasites, FIV and other arguably modern dangers. Likewise, smaller creatures can't defend themselves against the cats.

Argument for: Loving a cat entails letting the cat do what the cat wants while still taking health precautions, provided you don't live next to a high-traffic street and don't have a huge bird population.

I once owned a shelter-adopted cat who was a full-blown hobo and lived with us for a few days a month. Whenever confined indoors, he was absolutely miserable and let everyone know about it. The old men in the neighborhood HATED him for ruining their backyard bird feeding experiences and they always threatened to take a gun to him. I'm sure they meant it. Our own yard was often littered with sacrificial bird carcasses. The decision was made for us when, after assuming he was gone this time for good, we adopted another male and when the first one returned, he protested and disappeared forever. I like to imagine he hopped onto a train bound for a different coast.

[Athryn]

Letting a cat out of doors often significantly reduces it's lifespan, due to disease and many modern dangers such as cars, dogs, and children that will set it on fire. Keep it indoors. You get an extra cost saving benefit in some states by not having to pay for some vaccinations. My cats are perfectly happy. Would you let your dogs roam the neighborhood unsupervised?

When I was growing up in a rather rural area, we had outdoor cats, and even then, they died (or came close to death) via accidents (pitbull attack, stuck in fence) that could have been prevented.

[Sarkus]

Cat's that go outside unsupervised tend to have a shorter life. It's just the reality, no matter where you live. In urban areas there are cars, dogs, and stupid animal haters and in rural areas there are coyotes, hunting birds and other predators. In both places are exposure to disease from feral cats (feline leukemia, etc.)

Growing up in a rural area most of our cats simply disappeared. Only one we raised from a kitten lived long enough to be euthanised and that was because of chronic lung infections due to spending years outside.

I keep my cats indoors. Most of them are quite happy with that and they live much longer.

[Rimbo]

Outdoor cats belong outdoors, and indoor cats belong indoors. It really depends on the cat. I was adopted by an alley cat who had taken up shelter from the cold & wind in a shed out in our back yard. We put some old overstuffed chairs out there, and it became her (and her kittens') home. The neighbor caught the big male with a BB or two and he once left for about 3 months to sow his wild oats, but they all lived long, happy lives. They were big, strong, muscular and wily, so they didn't have a lot of trouble defending themselves or escaping from trouble.

We'd get a kick out of taking the dogs for a walk or visiting friends down the street and having one of our cats pop out of the bushes, as if to say, "Hey, what are you doing this far away from your house?"

[Funkula]

One of my friends recently bought a house in Garland (a semi-suburban sector of Greater Dallas) and several friends and I moved in. Since the ideal number of cats in a household is 2 (so they can keep each other company) and we were consolidating 3 households, we now have 6 cats. Fuck yes they get to go outside.

[Ben Sones]

We take one of our cats (Ozymandias) out on a leash. It's a good compromise between letting him wander free (which he'd like to do) and keeping him indoors. Wandering free isn't really an option; we live in the city near a busy street, he likes to pick fights with many of the other neighborhood cats, and he's allergic to the vaccination for feline leukemia (and therefor hasn't been vaccinated). He likes going out on his leash, though. In fact, he can be quite a pest when he wants us to take him out. We can better monitor his activities when he's on his leash, though it hasn't stopped him from catching squirrels on a few occasions. Once he even climbed a tree.

Our other cat, Grendel, is afraid of the outdoors. Won't go out even if we let him.

[Midnight Son]

We've got a huge screened porch they really enjoy. Sometimes we'll take them out in the grass on a leash.

[Jojo]

I live in a quiet suburban neighbourhood that also houses coyotes, skunks, raccoons, deer, hawks and cars. So no, my cats do not go outside. They are very happy (it seems) and a little overweight, but that's my fault for not exercising them enough.

[Jasper]

Our cats do as they wish, always have. It's what I'd want to do if I was a cat, and why I like them so much better than needy dogs.

Strangely, none of our cats have even been dumb enough to get hit by a car despite living next to busy roads, and while raccoons run rampant they never seem to tangle with cats (how would a raccoon even catch a cat?). In general cats do a remarkable job of taking care of themselves. I've seen some friends' cats that were remarkably stupid though, and suppose then I might worry. Why have stupid cats though?

And Jojo, you're worried about deer and hawks getting your cats?! Good Grief! Even skunks and raccoons sound implausible to me.

[WarrenM]

We do the leash thing sometimes. They love it. I would never let them go unsupervised, though.

[barstein]

My adult male cat views the outside as some sort of ultra-luxurious bathroom with a few mildly entertaining bonuses. He remains within about thirty feet of the door at all times. For the most part being outdoors when his people are not is his version of confinement. He behaves just as if I had put him in a room and closed the door (loudly complains, won't stop working on door). Speaking of which, he's very skilled at letting himself out of closed rooms.

My adult female cat seems truly alive when outdoors. It could be projection, but she looks very, very happy when she's out. There is a busy street nearby but the only time the traffic is actually an issue is when she follows me into it (so I always put her indoors before I cross that street). Interestingly, her loudest meows are when she goes running after me if I go for a walk and forget to put her inside first. She's nearly mute at other times.

If I'm keeping the female indoors for some reason and she wants out, she sits and stares up at the doorknob, occasionally mews quietly, messes around with the door in the hopes that it will pop open, or climbs and fucks shit up if it's the screen door. She isn't as tenacious as the male and sometimes gives up and becomes a furniture barnacle for a while.

What do they actually feel at any of these various times? So hard to tell for sure, so I make assumptions about what makes them happiest and take my (our) chances.

[Lum]

Cats don't miss the outdoors if they never are introduced to it. My cat perches on the windowsill and sees it as its HDTV screen. She never goes outside and in fact cries very loudly when we take her out of the house.

[nixon66]

The family cats we had growing up were outdoor/indoor cats. Both lived to 18 years, and were healthy for most of it. A few infections, or worms or fleas, but for the most part pretty good.

My wife and I have a cat (4 years now) and shes an indoor one, but that's mostly either because we've been living in an apartment, or the house we had for a bit was on a busy street and not the quiet neighborhood of the question. I'd love to let her out and let her catch a bird or two that she's been pining over for the last 4 years out the window though. That and I have a distinct curiosity of how she'd handle the crows she is so fascinated with.

[nixon66]

And Jojo, you're worried about deer and hawks getting your cats?! Good Grief! Even skunks and raccoons sound implausible to me.


A previous cat of mine had a nice run in with a local raccoon a couple of times. First time was a nice scar across his nose. Second time was a good notch in his ear. Didn't have to worry about a third time though. He seemed to have learned his lesson and only act tough with them if we were around.

[Athryn]

One of the cats I had growing up used to bring in ducks.

Ducks! And that was after she list a leg due to the aforementioned fence accident.

She would also occasionally stalk Great Blue Herons, that was kinda amusing. I swear, the heron would look would at her as if to say "you've got to be kidding, I could turn you into a cat-kabob if I wanted."

She was an awesome cat, lived to a very old age of 17 or 18.

[caesarbear]

One of the cats I had growing up used to bring in ducks.
I hope she shared.

[barstein]

This was rumored to be taken from from Something Awful but I couldn't find it there. I've seen other similar photos before and I'm pretty sure it can actually happen, as idiotic as it may be. Edit: it's a golden eagle.

http://i18.tinypic.com/53olf1d.jpg

http://i16.tinypic.com/6h740tk.jpg

[Robert Sharp]

If your cats are declawed, then it is practically cruelty to let them outside. They can't defend themselves or climb trees (even if you only declaw the front claws). Now I don't want to turn this into a "should you declaw your cats?" topic. We've had one, and it seemed ugly. I'm just pointing out that a declawed cat is at a HUGE disadvantage in the great outdoors, regardless of location.

[Shadarr]

Both my cats are big males who were strays before I got them. The first was at the SPCA and they claimed he was an indoor cat, but he demanded to go out the very first day (they also claimed he was quiet, even though we could hear him yowling through the goddamn wall). The second was a stray I found while cycling.

Both of them like to go out for varying amounts of time, the new guy will periodically stay out all day. I leave a window open all night so they can go in and out without bugging me. I suppose if I got a kitten and never let it out, then it might not know what it's missing. But my guys knew before I got them and refuse to give it up. They get in fights and kill small animals but we don't have any coyotes and few raccoons to worry about, and I'm not on a busy street. I'm sure their lives would be longer if I kept them inside all the time, at least statistically, but then again so would mine. That's a sacrifice I'm not willing to make and my cats aren't either.

[Robert Sharp]

I'm sure their lives would be longer if I kept them inside all the time, at least statistically, but then again so would mine. That's a sacrifice I'm not willing to make and my cats aren't either.

Well put. People put way too much value on length of life and not enough on quality.

[Lunch of Kong]

All my cats have been strays who have adopted me. They learn to scratch certain "do not scratch!" objects when they want to go outside.

[SqueakyFoo]

Even skunks and raccoons sound implausible to me.
Raccoons are the second biggest threat to housecats (next to coyotes) around here. They're nasty, vicious things with incredibly sharp claws and carry all sorts of lovely diseases.


When I was younger, we lived way out in the middle of nowhere. Our cat would escape the house and not come back for upwards of weeks at a time. Usually with some new scar or a chunk of his ear missing, but always alive and generally healthy. As he got older, he realised how awesome inside is (no rain or cold, no getting beat up by other animals, constant supply of food) and refused to go anywhere near the dreaded outside. He lived 19 years and died when I was 18.

[Cold Blooded]

Please consider updating poll. Don't see "Constantly jumps the fence and uses my backyard as a toilet" option.

[Shadarr]

As he got older, he realised how awesome inside is (no rain or cold, no getting beat up by other animals, constant supply of food) and refused to go anywhere near the dreaded outside.
My old cat has gradually reduced his outdoors time. My new cat used to be more outdoors than in, until the day it snowed. Spending a day cowering under a shed apparently convinced him to only stay outside when the weather's nice.

[Hanzii]

Since Lum is for 'indoors' I must now support 'outdoors'.


Nah, I'm with Shadarr et al. Cats are roaming creatures and need space. Pets dying is just a part of life and all my childhood cats were outdoor cats (I lived in the country) and lived relatively long lives (one was squashed by a car).
But we live in a small suburb and he doesn't like to roam far - if we go anywhere locally he tags along otherwise he just meows and knocks on a door/window when he wants to come back in.

[Peter Frazier]

Don't see "Constantly jumps the fence and uses my backyard as a toilet" option.
Damn, I was going to pitch in with the same comment. My kid's sandpit has become the local cat toilet. Yay for people who don't assume responsibility for their pets!

[Tyjenks]

Once we had a second child (human baby, that is, as I know many of you refer to your cats as kiddies), there was just no room for the hair and the mess and the litter. Now I am sure there were other options, but I had quit my job, was back in school, and my wife was pregnant and was not supposed to handle the doody duties. So Phoebe went outside. Now instead of lounging around staring out of the window, she runs and kills things and lounges around outdoors and only rarely tries to get inside. She went from birth to ~6 years old inside and has been outside for 2 years. She seems to be fine to me.

My only regret is letting us get the cat in the first place. I love animals, but have a long history through childhood of losing them due to death or mother giving them away. When we got this one that my wife wanted, I knew I would end up taking care of it and then had to make the decision to put her out. I felt like putting the cat out was a death sentence. Again, she seems OK, but I feel guilty about it.

Yay life, it is the ginchiest. (Yeah, I am bringing that term back...What!?!).

[Matthew Gallant]

You want your cat to have quality of life? Buy a laser pointer. That tiny red dot is better than twenty squirrels with sixty broken legs, apparently.

You want your cat to almost certainly die years early? Let him outside.

[Lunch of Kong]

Every time I chime in with the story about how my neighbor ran over his cat pulling into his drive then had to run it over again to put it out of its misery, I get called an asshole. So I won't repeat it.

[Tyjenks]

Every time I chime in with the story about how my neighbor ran over his cat pulling into his drive then had to run it over again to put it out of its misery, I get called an asshole. So I won't repeat it.

Why do you get called an asshole, you didn't do it. Unless it was your ""neighbor"".

[Merakon]

No poll option matches my situation:

Have a small backyard. We put up cat fencing that allows our 7 cats to roam the backyard without being able to escape. We take them on leashes occasionally out the front door into the front neighborhood.

When we lived in suburbs, it was leash only. Ever since then, the place we buy or rent has to have a cat-fenceable back yard for the cats.

[barstein]

Sorry for the missing poll options.

You want your cat to have quality of life? Buy a laser pointer. That tiny red dot is better than twenty squirrels with sixty broken legs, apparently.

Once while at someone's house I was told in earnest that their cat went INSANE as soon as they started doing this. Something about the fact that the dot is and isn't a real object at the same time. The cat was hiding in a closet somewhere at the time so I didn't get the chance to investigate for myself.

Every time I chime in with the story about how my neighbor ran over his cat pulling into his drive then had to run it over again to put it out of its misery, I get called an asshole. So I won't repeat it.

For years my X played Chicken with one of the cats every time she pulled up into the driveway. I was never able to get her to stop and she still does this when she comes over to my place (same cat).

[Raife]

Once while at someone's house I was told in earnest that their cat went INSANE as soon as they started doing this. Something about the fact that the cat knows it is and isn't a real object at the same time. The cat was hiding in a closet somewhere at the time so I didn't get the chance to investigate for myself.

Probably mistook it for a signal to take cover, the invasion fleet is coming.

[Jojo]

And Jojo, you're worried about deer and hawks getting your cats?! Good Grief! Even skunks and raccoons sound implausible to me.
No, not worried about deer or hawks attacking them, I was just getting a bit carried away with the list of wildlife here :) The coyotes and cars are the main problem around here. Raccoons and skunks seem a viable if less likely problem, don't they both carry rabies too?

[barstein]

Probably mistook it for a signal to take cover, the invasion fleet is coming.No I mean, they thought the cat went bonkers permanently. Its behavior became totally erratic immediately after it first encountered and tried to play with the pointer. I've never heard of such a thing outside of this story, so who knows, but the couple who related it were pretty smart and savvy.

[Robert Sharp]

Well, smart enough to personify their cat, anyway.

[Enidigm]

My parents adopted a cat that was pregant without their knowledge but decided to keep all but one of the kittens.

The one kitten they let go, a female to a lifelong friend of my sister, is a complete, utter, demonic miserable tasmanian devil of a cat, housebound and never allowed out.

The remaining kittens, all boys, are like Vishnu recumbant on the serpent endless. They never experienced the trauma of being lost, and are completely utterly cool cats, probably the most well balanced, laid back, friendly cats i've ever met. We call his favorite the Golden Child, and my sister even commissioned a painting of him for a present one year :).

Two of them live inside during the night and one of which is outdoor only, and being a blue eyed, crosseyed, weenie, runs in utter fear at any loud noise. My dad made him a ramp going into a little partition he cut and made in the attic for him from the garage, a kind of cat condo, where he hides out when a car passes.

Apparently the only killer cat is the original momma cat, that slaughters dove left and right like a bloodthirsty horror movie monster; but she was a stray, and had possibly been abused or something, and seems to have never really socialized.

(Personally ... i prefer dogs :) ).

[Samurai]

I've done the laser point with my cat and she's just fine. As a matter of fact its one of the only things she WILL chase around when in the mood.

Oh, and shes an indoor cat. But since she's declawed (something that I deeply regret doing and will never repeat) theres no choice.

[Raife]

Apparently the only killer cat is the original momma cat, that slaughters dove left and right like a bloodthirsty horror movie monster; but she was a stray, and had possibly been abused or something, and seems to have never really socialized.

Yeah, we had a rescued stray back when I was in High School. She was a hunter, and kicked the snot out of every critter she could get her claws on. She liked to leave their remains on the front porch of the house for us. Sweet cat, though.

[Matthew Gallant]

No I mean, they thought the cat went bonkers permanently. Its behavior became totally erratic immediately after it first encountered and tried to play with the pointer.
Laser madness! Protect your cat from the danger.
I've never heard of such a thing outside of this story, so who knows, but the couple who related it were pretty smart and savvy.
Did you ever consider the possibility that the laser drove them crazy?

[Hanzii]

Every time I chime in with the story about how my neighbor ran over his cat pulling into his drive then had to run it over again to put it out of its misery, I get called an asshole. So I won't repeat it.

I recently got my driving liscense and this was my instructors method of dealing with animals run over but not quite dead yet.
Of course all the 18-year old girls in the room called him an asshole.

If somebody ran over my cat, I'd want them to take responsibility and put him out of his misery quickly.

[Tactu]

Is there a non of the above option? My cats live in the garage, but I let them out during the day before I leave for work. When I get home, I let them back in and shut the door. This scenario works well because I've found most of the bad things that happen to cats that are not car related happen at night. The cats enjoy having a safe place to sleep and eat, but they are also ready to go out during the day. On the weekends they can be seen flitting around the yard when i'm outside working, or even hanging out in the garage for a quick bite to eat.

[Ryan A]

I don't care what you do with your cat as long as it stays out of my yard. When the neighborhood cats come to shit in my flower gardens or sandbox, they get to play dodge rock. They usually lose.

[Shadarr]

Speaking of assholes....

[WarrenM]

(something that I deeply regret doing and will never repeat)
My destroyed leather arm chair disagrees with you.

[Athryn]

My destroyed leather arm chair disagrees with you.

There are plenty of ways to keep a cat from clawing furniture. The first and most important one (that people often forget) is to offer them an "ok" alternative. Cats "need" to scratch things, it's part of their instinct, they're marking their territory, and it feels good. So you offer them a scratching post, or a scratching pad. Then you go about discouraging them from using the "bad" source via a number of products that are on the market (sticky paws, etc) to stop them from using it, and then give them positive reinforcement when they use the proper scratching source.

All pretty simple sounding shit, but most people are lazy and would rather chop off the tips of their cats fingers (which is what declawing does, it's more than just removing the claw, they amputate to the first knuckle anatomically) than put some effort into training what popular culture claims is an untrainable animal.

[WarrenM]

She has an alternative which she uses all the time. She goes after the chair when I'm not feeding her exactly when she wants to eat or when she's feeling pissy about something. She knows precisely what she's doing and it has nothing to do with her need to scratch.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating declawing cats. I would never do that. I'm just saying that you should be prepared to make some sacrifices.

[Cold Blooded]

Speaking of assholes....

Only speaking for myself, not on behalf of anyone else here.

No problem here with people being cat lovers in their own homes, on their property.

When the neighbors' cats constantly jump the fence into my backyard and use it as their personal litter box, then it becomes a problem for me. It's disrespectful and annoying, and a potential hygiene issue for those of us with small children. Cat owners who allow this to happen are irresponsible and inconsiderate and are very much in "the wrong."

Keep your god-damned cats and their feces out of my yard and we'll all get along just fine.

[Rimbo]

Only speaking for myself, not on behalf of anyone else here.

No problem here with people being cat lovers in their own homes, on their property.

When the neighbors' cats constantly jump the fence into my backyard and use it as their personal litter box, then it becomes a problem for me. It's disrespectful and annoying, and a potential hygiene issue for those of us with small children. Cat owners who allow this to happen are irresponsible and inconsiderate and are very much in "the wrong."

Keep your god-damned cats and their feces out of my yard and we'll all get along just fine.

Get one of those fence headers that prevents cats from getting over the fence into your yard. Or barbed wire.

[Athryn]

You can also get some pheromone stuff that will keep them away

Cayenne pepper sprinkled all around helps as well. Cats don't like fiery paws!

[barstein]

Speaking of assholes....

If a cat crosses a line, some negative reinforcement is OK in my view, provided it's quick, doesn't have lasting physical effects and produces good results. I doubt anyone here throws rocks to kill, maim or cause huge amounts of pain. Uh, right?

But if it were me, I'd be using Super Soakers instead. Cats + Misbehavior + Water = Fun!

[Jason Cross]

We take one of our cats (Ozymandias) out on a leash. It's a good compromise between letting him wander free (which he'd like to do) and keeping him indoors. Wandering free isn't really an option; we live in the city near a busy street, he likes to pick fights with many of the other neighborhood cats, and he's allergic to the vaccination for feline leukemia (and therefor hasn't been vaccinated). He likes going out on his leash, though. In fact, he can be quite a pest when he wants us to take him out. We can better monitor his activities when he's on his leash, though it hasn't stopped him from catching squirrels on a few occasions. Once he even climbed a tree.

Our other cat, Grendel, is afraid of the outdoors. Won't go out even if we let him.

I can corroborate all this, and would only add that one of your cats, Ben, was very poorly named. ;)

[Shadarr]

If a cat crosses a line, some negative reinforcement is OK in my view, provided it's quick, doesn't have lasting physical effects and produces good results. I doubt anyone here throws rocks to kill, maim or cause huge amounts of pain. Uh, right?

But if it were me, I'd be using Super Soakers instead. Cats + Misbehavior + Water = Fun!
Super soaker, hose, pine cones, rubber balls, whatever. But rocks are over the line. Do you key someone's car when it's parked in your space?

[Gremlinclr]

I have one outdoor cat who is not allowed indoors. It's not that I wouldn't prefer her in the house, it's just that my 3 indoor dogs would really prefer her in the house.

The place is tore up enough from the dogs, I can't imagine how it would look if they had a cat to chase all day. Plus even if it weren't for that I fear they would "play" a little too energetically and end up killing her. They'll just sniff her when I take them out because I'm there watching but if left unattended all day that would likely change.

[Tyjenks]

I am not sure that asking your neighbors to purchase fence guards and cat repellant and super-soakers to protect them from someone else's pet is exactly fair. My 1st kid getting into the litter box was enough for me to know that kids will play with anything. I can certainly understand people not wanting their flowers and kids further soiled when outside on their own property.

We are lucky, there are cats in our neighborhood, but everyone has a fair amount of trees and brush, I have never seen cat poop in my yard, dog poop, that's another story.

[Ryan A]

Super soaker, hose, pine cones, rubber balls, whatever. But rocks are over the line. Do you key someone's car when it's parked in your space?

A good throwing pine cone is far more likely to maim (heavier, spiky, etc.) than a good throwing rock. And if some idiot neighbor started parking in my driveway without permission, I wouldn't key their car but you can bet it would be towed.

I am, however, considering investing in a nice air soft gun since rocks aren't always handy. Should be good for keeping the ducks off the dock at the lake too. As accurate as a BB gun but without the potential for breaking skin/freakish small creature death.

[Robert Sharp]

You have pine cones that can fly better than rocks? Wow. I suppose you probably mean small rocks though, which are only intended to scare the cats away.

However, cats don't respond well to such threats. If they don't see you around, they'll continue their activities. They aren't like dogs. So you should use some of the ideas Athryn mentioned. You need something that consistently deters them.

[Tyjenks]

Yeah, damn. With a pine cone, I am more likely to lacerate myself. Those damn things are all pointy and shit. That is unless you keep your yardwork gloves right next to you stack of throwing pine cones.