How good is LaDainaian Tomlinson?

[Jakub]

I was just browsing the ESPN NFL front page when I noticed he has scored 186 more points. That's more than anyone else in the league, including the kickers.

Is he the product of a system, like the Broncos seem to churn out 1500 yard runners out of 5th round draft picks? Or is he just that damn good?

[Rimbo]

He's that good.

[awdougherty]

He's genuinely that good, but my fear is that he's due for an injury. NFL teams seems content to beat the shit out of backs until something breaks.

[Matt Perkins]

Yeah, if LT can keep it up, he'll be the best that has ever played the game. Not as flashy as some, but by far the best...if he can keep it up.

[Alan Dunkin]

I wouldn't say he's a product of a system; he's just really good. Watched him a bit when he came into TCU, which was (I can't remember if they transitioned or what, he was the reason why you watched TCU to begin with) a run-oriented system for the most part. Even then he was big and had a full head of steam, and he had some monster games where he just killed people (in 1999 he ran for 400+ yards against UTEP and led the NCAA in rushing yards, then led again with even more yards in 2000, winning the Doak Walker).

If he stayed healthy I think it was obvious he could be very overpowering and a great RB in the NFL, and worked great for the Chargers, who needed a good RB.

--- Alan

[BaconTastesGood]

He's that good. He's surrounded by talented people as well, although they lack any significant outside receiving threats.

The problem I see is that he's going to get overused, like Faulk did but worse. He's going to get 20-25 carries a game AND he's probably going to get 5-10 receptions a game, and much like Priest Holmes and Faulk and Alexander, out of a pursuit for the TD totals they're going to hand it to him every time they get within the 5.

I still think Faulk was a better player.

[Mr_PeaCH]

The Faulk comparison is pretty apt I think. Without him and his success in the pros I think that teams today would be a lot less likely to feature a back like Tomlinson. The sort of guy who previously would have been considered more a 3rd down specialist / screen pass threat but maybe not durable enough to hand the rock to 20+ times a game.

That said I feel like LT is all Faulk was and more. A little bigger, a little stronger with all the speed and quickness and versitility. And I'm a huge Faulk fan and still bitter that he didn't get the Heisman over Gino Who?retta back in the day.

[triggercut]

The one thing Faulk could do that LT cannot is force the other team to do the unthinkable, and cover the running back out of the backfield with a corner or nickleback. There are, however, many things LT can do that Faulk could not.

[BaconTastesGood]

LT is clearly a better pure power back, but I don't think he had Faulk's moves, and he definitely does not have Faulk's receiving and route running. Faulk was a very, very good receiver which is why no one wanted even to match him up with a linebacker. Martz was all about the mismatches.

A lot of LT's receptions were dump offs. He occasionally gets split out wide or into the slot, but Faulk would regularly get put out there as the slot receiver.

You can see this in their receiving stats -- Tomlinson's BEST season was a 9.1 ypc average, whereas Faulk's career average was 9.0 ypc (and his best season was like 12.1 ypc, which is receiver territory).

I don't think LT or Faulk were third-down back candidates, because they both have the size that teams want in a feature back.

[Desslock]

I think it's a little of both - he's definitely an all-star player, but he'll do a hell of a lot worse this year without the support of Marty Schottenheimer, as will the team. Most deranged decision to fire a coach ever.

[Rimbo]

Oh, I wouldn't worry about a bad coach affecting him. He got all his yards at TCU under Franchione, who makes Norv Turner look like Bill Walsh by comparison.

Edit: Oh, and "Most deranged decision to fire a coach ever" = The Truth

[Alan Dunkin]

'cept no one considered Franchione to be a bad coach back when he helped put TCU on the map. People were only saying that after he left 'bama.

--- Alan

[Bill Dungsroman]

I think it's a little of both - he's definitely an all-star player, but he'll do a hell of a lot worse this year without the support of Marty Schottenheimer, as will the team. Most deranged decision to fire a coach ever.
I wasn't entirely opposed to Marty's firing, based upon his abysmal postseason record - which translates to a coach who can make a team good, but never great, and you look at the Chargers roster and the right head coach could could make them great. However, the hiring of Norv Turner is such a significant downgrade. They should have given Marty another year at least, and then make a play for Cowher or Parcells or Vermiel, whichever has grown the most sick of not coaching. It's not like Marty lost control of his players and a change was necessary for that reason. I hope the Chargers owner knows where to point the finger when this year is a disappointment, because it's all his fault.



On a lighter side, I hope this undrafted free agent makes the Vikings squad. This one can find the end zone! Tarvaris, he's wide open!

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/862/catsed4.jpg

OH HAI I CAN HAS SIX POINTS PLZ?

[Desslock]

San Diego will promptly go back to mediocre, and then slide into abysmal, without Marty. The guy overachieved and won homefield advantage, over at least two clearly better teams: NE and Indy, but then couldn't hold on and beat NE in the playoffs in a very close game -- losing to NE in the playoffs by 3 points is hardly a choke, when almost nobody thought SD was the better team, especially prior to the season.

Marty's awesome -- only 2 losing seasons in 21 years, despite usually having a mishmash of mediocre players and old stars. The guy finally gets his hands on a genuine offensive star in LD (the only one he's ever had, unless you count a 39 year old Montana), and he smashes his team to the best record in football and crafts the best SD team since the Dan Fouts era almost 30 years ago -- reward: immediately dumped. Just preposterous.

Those fuckers are going to "roll" to a 7-9 or 6-8 record without Marty.

[Midnight Son]

It could be Chucky situation. Chucky comes in and takes Tampa Bay to the Superbowl the year after Dungy gets fired.

So, uh, Norv, (stop laughing!), should go to the Super Bowl this season. Don't bet money on it though......

[SolomonGrundy]

Hrm. As a Pats fan, I thought SD was going to beat us last year, but they did what I've watched alot of young talented teams do- they get frustrated- then sloppy. SD in the 3rd quarter last year lost their patience and that gave the game to NE.
Week 2 baby.I have that circled for the game of the year.

[Rimbo]

'cept no one considered Franchione to be a bad coach back when he helped put TCU on the map. People were only saying that after he left 'bama.

--- Alan

Largely because TCU remained on the map after he left. And word has since then gotten around that he had less to do with TCU's success than his assistant, Gary Patterson.

[VegasRobb]

Last season, teams with LT won their league 74% of the time.

[Desslock]

It could be Chucky situation. Chucky comes in and takes Tampa Bay to the Superbowl the year after Dungy gets fired

San Diego will promptly go back to mediocre, and then slide into abysmal, without Marty....Those fuckers are going to "roll" to a 7-9 or 6-8 record without Marty.

LT'll do a hell of a lot worse this year without the support of Marty Schottenheimer, as will the team. Most deranged decision to fire a coach ever.

NEVER FUCK WITH MARTY-BALL

[Bill Dungsroman]

OK I WILL TOO

However, the hiring of Norv Turner is such a significant downgrade. They should have given Marty another year at least, and then make a play for Cowher or Parcells or Vermiel, whichever has grown the most sick of not coaching. It's not like Marty lost control of his players and a change was necessary for that reason. I hope the Chargers owner knows where to point the finger when this year is a disappointment, because it's all his fault.

[Rimbo]

Edit: Oh, and "Most deranged decision to fire a coach ever" = The Truth

this is fun

[BaconTastesGood]

So if I understand this right, Desslock thinks he's a genius because he's the only person alive that thinks that Norv Turner is a step down from Marty? Okkayyyy....

[Desslock]

So if I understand this right, Desslock thinks he's a genius because he's the only person alive that thinks that Norv Turner is a step down from Marty? Okkayyyy....

I may be a genius, but that wasn't the point of the post, and I certainly never claimed to have an exclusive insights - like others posted, many people felt similarly, and posted to that effect in this thread. But many people also felt otherwise -- certainly most of the ESPN and other network pre-season coverage failed to flag how consequential Marty's firing was, and virtually all "pundits" ranked San Diego very highly.

I will claim that I don't know anyone else who predicted that San Diego would actually have a losing season without Marty -- if you know of anyone who did, please direct me to that commentary, because I'll respect that person's football insights in the future. So yeah, I think I deserve to gloat a bit for that prediction, since it certainly wasn't common.

But mainly I cannot overstate how much of a fan of Marty I am - I think the guy did such a brilliant job in K.C. with virtually no talent pool, and then did the same thing in Washington and S.D. and keeps getting the shaft. His record is phenomenal.

Over and over again, people undervalued his contribution to SD's success, and failed to comment on how egregious his firing was, or to realize how significant the impact would be, on LT and on San Diego -- there were some good comments in this thread from a variety of posters prior to the season beginning whch I wanted to reiterate again. We were right, fuck SD management.