Settlers of Catan question [Boardgame!]

[André Costa]

So i finally managed to convince 3 of my friends to buy & play Catan. Much fun indeed.

However, after our initial games with the default map, we began to want to move a bit beyond that and were met with some questions that aren't really explained that well in the manual. So here i am seeking knowledge :)

For reference, we only have the basic game for now. We will probably get the expansions in the future but for now we're just 4 people so the basic game is serving us well.

A) What's the best way to go about building a custom map?
We tried some wierd way that was explained in the manual but nothing good came out of it :P
I then searched the internets and found a perl script to generate random maps and that's what we're using now. It serves it's purpose but i want to know more.

B) With a custom camp, what's the best "rule" on how to place the initial settlements?
This is my main issue with our "custom" maps. It isn't explained in the manual AT ALL. We have tried several methods but none seems to have worked very good.

C) Settlement placement during the game
According to the manual, you can't build a settlement if there's another near it(1 "space" away). However the manual doesn't specify if it's another from the current player or from all the players.

Well, these are my(our) main issues right now, i'd appreciate if someone could chime in with some knowledge or some other useful tips.

[Rock8man]

I'll handle the easiest first:

C) Settlements can't go near any other settlement. Period.

A) Just shuffle the cards and place them down, go anticlockwise and outward in a spiral, or just go clockwise and outward in a spiral if you want. You still have to place the numbers in the same order as told by the manual though. So the numbers are still done in the way described by the manual.

B) Along with the numbers, you'll see little dots below the numbers. So for example, a 9 has 4 dots below it. That means a 9 is a pretty likely dice roll. More likely than 3 dots, less likely than 5 dots. Etc. I don't remember the actual number of dots, I'm giving an example. So just pick your initial placement based on what resources you want, and also how likely that number is to come up on the dice.

[delirium]

I'm no expert, but this is how we do it: Flip over all the tiles upside down and shuffle them up. Place the ports randomly as such. Then, just fill in the board randomly. The rules of thumb we use here: No desert in the middle and if 3 tiles of the same resource end up in a cluster together, we move one of them somewhere else randomly. The number tiles are then placed. If there are 2 red #s next to each other, we'll swap one out with something else randomly. I also like to split up the 12 and 2 if they end up adjacent.

As for placing settlements, you can't put any settlement less than 2 spaces away from ANY other settlement, neither yours nor someone elses.

[Mark Crump]

We've got the fancy set with the 3d tiles.

What we do is hand ouch a bunch of tiles to each person and take turns placing them. Then for the numbers we just shake them up and place them randomly.

[Hans Lauring]

A)
We just place randomly as described by Rock8man, but we also shuffle the numbers - just make sure that no two red numbers* are next to each other. If they are you just put the number aside, draw the next number and place and then place the red number next (if it's not next to another)

B) I ALWAYS go for a 6 and a 8, even if they're on the same type of resource resource. If they are on the same type of resource, I try to build towards the right harbor. Secondarily I always aim for placement boardering three resources - but I will somertimes take one with 2 if it's on a harbour and next to good numbers (example 6 and a 9).
Try to get a mix of resources, try to get good numbers (never 3 and 12) and make a strategy based on initial placement and stick to it (ubless another players ruins it). Ie go for a harbour, or aim to build your first new settlement in whatever resource is your weak spot.
Oh, and keeping your c) in question, if you can place your settlement so you deny another player access.

C) is answered in full by Rock8.


*Our version apparently some versions use dots - but the red numbers (4 dots) are 6 and 8.


We've got the fancy set with the 3d tiles.

What we do is hand ouch a bunch of tiles to each person and take turns placing them. Then for the numbers we just shake them up and place them randomly.

I own 3 sets (and two Islands of Catan and some supplements) but haven't seen this. Link?

[Mark Crump]

A)



I own 3 sets (and two Islands of Catan and some supplements) but haven't seen this. Link?
http://paizo.com/store/games/cardBoardGames/settlersOfCatan/settlersOfCatan/v5748btpy7dx8

He paid much less for it (about 150, I believe)

[delirium]

Also, it's great to have a lot of different numbers. You'll get more cards that way, and the more cards you have, the better your chances of winning. You can get up to 6 numbers on your initial placement. I don't recommend ever placing on less than 5 numbers, though in some situations I suppose 4 would be acceptable. Personally, I'd rather have 6 mediocre numbers than 4 great numbers.

I also like to count the dots on Brick/Wood and Ore/Wheat to see which will be more in demand, and plan my strategy accordingly.

[LionelThompson]

Small nitpick, but the number of dots tell you how many chances out of 36 you will on average roll that number:

1 - 2 and 12
2 - 3, 11
3 - 4, 10
4 - 5, 9
5 - 6, 8
6 - 7 (if such a tile existed)

[Alan Au]

Personally, I'd rather have 6 mediocre numbers than 4 great numbers.Agreed; I tend to go for the 5/9/10 junctions on the idea that they'll fire more often over the course of a game.

- Alan

[Hans Lauring]

Agreed; I tend to go for the 5/9/10 junctions on the idea that they'll fire more often over the course of a game.

- Alan

I might pick that over a 6 or 8 placed next to a 2 or 12, but usually I make sure to get both, because they just hit most often and I'd rather a big continuing supply of one resource than a trickle of all the resources (you just trade, use the 4:1 or a harbour).


Small nitpick, but the number of dots tell you how
6 - 7 (if such a tile existed)

That would be when you move the thief.

[Andrew Mayer]

Agreed; I tend to go for the 5/9/10 junctions on the idea that they'll fire more often over the course of a game.

- Alan

Has anybody played the game with the "card dice"?

It's a little too statistically nice for my taste, but I'm curious.

[Jackstar]

Boards with the desert in the middle, and/or 3 stone/clay clumped together can be fun. And they're certainly different. The rule I am most fond of is to shuffle the tiles randomly, lay them out, and use die rolls to determine where the number spiral starts from; if you end up with a totally whacked out board layout, well, so what? NO CHANGING ALLOWED.

[Rock8man]

Yeah, it's pretty funny, but the absolute worst board layout me and my friends have ever played on is the one given in the manual for new players. "The default layout" is what I call it.

And its absolutely crap. Basically all the harbors are in the worst possible places. Right near the most common brick tile, there's a brick harbor. Right near the most common wheat tile, there's a wheat harbor. Right near the most common wood tile, there's a wood harbor. Believe me, this made for the worst game of Catan we've ever played. Everyone had access to a harbor near their own favorite resource, which devalued that resource in their eyes and made them unwilling to trade for it. This basically made for a game where there was almost no trading between players, only with the harbor, which was really boring in the end.

So whatever method you choose for randomizing, for god's sake, don't ever play the stupid default map from the manual. Any possible random map we've ever come up with has been better than that map.

[Jackstar]

I should probably mention that I've played a fair number of games of Catan over the years, and having a 5/8/10 stone/wheat/sheep spot on the board is way more un-fun, in my experience, than having, say, all of one resource clumped up someplace. IMHO. Unless you get the sweet spot, I guess.

Trust the gods of randomness, throw the tiles at the table and let them stick.

[Eduardo X]

I didn't know people put the tiles don't any way besides randomly. That's really part of the fun for me, to see what we come up with.

[André Costa]

I didn't know people put the tiles don't any way besides randomly. That's really part of the fun for me, to see what we come up with.

Did you also not read the rules the first times you played? Just to see what you came up with?

@everyone: thanks for the tips. I'm still unsure about that dots thing you all talk about because i don't see any dots on the numbers. :shrug: But we will revise this thread when we play again :]

[bigdruid]

Yeah, it's amusing - they *tell you in the manual* (at least in my version) how to lay out the tiles. It's not that hard, and it does a good job of randomizing them without allowing high-value tiles to clump up in one place.

I mean, if you don't like reading about arcane rules and following them, then perhaps German board games aren't for you :)

Perhaps there are different versions of the game, some of which don't include the layout rules?

[Alan Au]

I might pick that over a 6 or 8 placed next to a 2 or 12, but usually I make sure to get both, because they just hit most often and I'd rather a big continuing supply of one resource than a trickle of all the resources (you just trade, use the 4:1 or a harbour).Two words: thief target.

- Alan

[Hans Lauring]

Not a problem.
I'm as likely as the next player to hit a 7 and move him away and since I have the superior number of resources, chances are that I'll have a knight card ready anyway.
Never pick a spot because you think people won't hit you with the thief then.

Anyway, our metagame means I'm a thief target even if I settle on a 2-12 junction - because I've won 99% of the games I've played over the years, those I play with regularly go directly for my throat even if I'm last.

[Eduardo X]

Did you also not read the rules the first times you played? Just to see what you came up with?

Seeing as how the rules say to do what I do....

[André Costa]

Yeah, it's amusing - they *tell you in the manual* (at least in my version) how to lay out the tiles. It's not that hard, and it does a good job of randomizing them without allowing high-value tiles to clump up in one place.

I mean, if you don't like reading about arcane rules and following them, then perhaps German board games aren't for you :)

Perhaps there are different versions of the game, some of which don't include the layout rules?

Seeing as how the rules say to do what I do....
Previously, on the very first post of this thread:



B) With a custom camp, what's the best "rule" on how to place the initial settlements?
This is my main issue with our "custom" maps. It isn't explained in the manual AT ALL. We have tried several methods but none seems to have worked very good.

[shang]

It's definitely in the rules. In clockwise order, each player places one settlement in any spot (that is not adjacent to another settlement) and one road adjacent to that settlement. Then, in reverse order, everyone places a second settlement and a second road.

[Dave Perkins]

Has anybody played the game with the "card dice"?

It's a little too statistically nice for my taste, but I'm curious.

I have, just once. I didn't have a strong reaction one way or another.

[André Costa]

It's definitely in the rules. In clockwise order, each player places one settlement in any spot (that is not adjacent to another settlement) and one road adjacent to that settlement. Then, in reverse order, everyone places a second settlement and a second road.

Thanks :)

(and i have my manual in front of me right now and there's nothing like that in there :|)

[Miramon]

The rules confusion comes about from the fact there have been about a zillion editions of this game, some purely in German, some in German with Germanglish translations in a pamphlet, and some purely in English, depending on publisher, distributor, and edition.

Anyhow, the main thing to remember in this game is that 5 and 9 come up more frequently than 6 and 8. OK, OK, I know that's totally insane, but it always seems that way to me.

Speaking of editions, the vast majority of funky variants seem to me to be crap; the only one which is better than the simple basic game is "knights and cities", IMO, because it adds some fun complexity without hosing the basic gameplay. Actually, I admit I kind of like the "starfarers" game, but that is sufficiently different from basic settlers as to really be a separate game.

[André Costa]

We are actually thinking right now of getting some expansions. We'll probably get the 5-6 players expansion for the original game and then decide on one of the other "expansions" and get that too. From some past threads here, looks like Seafarers of Catan is the one to go for. Any comments on that?

(OFF-Topic: we are also thinking on getting a board-war-game ...anything that is like Catan but with killing? :P)

[Jackstar]

I didn't like Seafarers very much. Really liked Cities & Knights. ymmv.

[Rock8man]

Opinions vary from person to person. Me and my friends disagree on which one is better: Original Catan or Knights. My friends like Knights better, I like the original better.

As for Seafarers, we all agree we didn't like Seafarers and that it was a waste of money. But that's, all 5 of us, so we might be a minority opinion overall.

As for getting 5-6 players, that can get really expensive, at least the way they sell it to us here. If you want 5-6 for the original game, that's an expansion you have to buy. If you want 5-6 players for Knights, that's another expansion you need to buy. if you want 5-6 players for Seafarers, that's another expansion you need to buy.

We were pretty disgusted with this whole practice and decided that only 4 of us would play at a time. The fifth person can play on the 360 or something until the next game. :P