Scientologists at Your Local Mall

[Moggraider]

Has anyone seen Scientologists at your local mall lately? I have for the past three weeks here in a suburb of San Diego. They set up booths every weekend offering "Free stress tests!" I didn't realize who they were until today when I saw a large yellow "DIANETICS" poster they put up, but when I saw them on previous weeks I knew something was fishy. They've had quacky-looking contraptions for measuring your posture and such; one was like a frame with strings stretched taut all over it that you had to step into.

Why are Scientologists still in existence? Shouldn't these guys have been shamed into breaking apart yet? And why are they at my mall? The mall I frequent has mostly Mexican and Mexican-American clientele; they're barking up the wrong tree.

[Enidigm]

E-meters? I've always wanted to try one of those out.

Scientology is a pretty strange cult even when you delve past it's more obvious transgressions, but it does bear similarity to Buddhism and Hinduism in it's basic concept of mental self-reflection as the key to "enlightenment". The problem i have with this basically decent premise is that - insofar as i can tell - Scientology's "enlightment" is just a selfish grab for infinite universal power. For some reason though, this quasi-scientific approach - wrapping meditation and mental processes in dry, sci-fi inspired electromechanical descriptions - seems to appeal to the credulous skeptic of the other religions whom still retains a bit of mystical belief in the power of technology. And i'm being pretty generous in not docking it for being a pay-to-play scam, or hiding it's theology from view. Hiding it's beliefs from even it's adherants is in itself is probably it's strangest and most cult-like aspect.

It's very name "Scientology" pretty much tells you what to expect.

[Coca Cola Zero]

Which mall were you at with the Scientologists? If I'm terribly bored I might go down there and fuck with them some day.

[Cosmic Hippo]

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/7104/scicatcs5.jpg

[Raife]

You should go for an audit, then try to recruit them into your own cult. Give an impassioned speech, and gradually start acting as crazy as you can.

[Harugon]

Were they wearing yellow raincoats like the mall cultists in Dead Rising?

[Hawkeye Fierce]

I've seen the "stress test" booths set up on street corners downtown, been handed pamphlets at bus stops, seen flyers stuck under cars, etc. They've got a pretty aggressive street-level marketing strategy.

[awdougherty]

They offer the same free stress tests around NYC. I usually see them in the subway station under Port Authority.

[Moggraider]

Which mall were you at with the Scientologists? If I'm terribly bored I might go down there and fuck with them some day.


Chula Vista Center. Take pictures.

[Demon G Sides]

Were they wearing yellow raincoats like the mall cultists in Dead Rising?

No, but I dare say that we of QT3 should start doing this.

We just need green masks and orange boots and the costume is -complete-.

[Euri]

They are a dangerous cult. Beware.

[Sockpuppet]

There's a Scientology Centre right on Yonge Street in downtown Toronto. Every time I pass, some pleasant- and normal-looking folks stand hopefully next to the "Free Stress Test" sign.

I've been tempted to sit down and go through it just for a laugh, but I have no doubt that as soon as your ass hits the chair they stick you with a needle full of mind control juice and next week it's your sorry ass standing next to the sign staring dully but pleasantly into the Toronto sidewalk traffic.

[Calistas]

Just don't give them any real personal data and be prepared for the ego stroking "wow, you're a genius, but you have so much untapped potential!"

[Machfive]

one was like a frame with strings stretched taut all over it that you had to step into.

I've seen that used by different chiropractors at expositions and whatnot. One of these days I've got to find out if that thing is full of crap or not, but on the same day, two different chiropractor's assistants gave me the same analysis results using those string machines, so I have to assume there's something to them.

[Moggraider]

Chiropractors are full of crap, too.

[BaconTastesGood]

Chiropractors are full of crap, too.

Not according to Wikipedia they're not!!!!1

[Flowers]

I've always wanted to make a pass at a religious professional while holding two soupcans. Imagine my delight to find that I could fill in that blank in my sex portfolio while at the same time earning my, "make outrageous claim about my sexual abilities, gesture towards nearby lie detector, immediately close deal," merit badge.

That's what we call a twofer. Like the first time you sleep with a lady of another race, and she tells you that the lump in her shoulder is foetus in foetu so you also get to cross out, "twins."

Sorry ladies, I'm taken.

[Calistas]

/me retches a little bit ;)

[Flowers]

I don't know how you spell that foetus thing, and I didn't want to look it up to find out in case I saw a picture of it.

[DennyA]

When I first moved to the Seattle area, there was a Church of Scientology right around the corner from the Microsoft main campus.

Probably recruiting the Microsoft millionaires of the day...

About a year ago it shut down, and the space is now occupied by a pawn shop.

[bago]

Daisy chains for thetans (http://www.nwtekno.org/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1892411#post1892411)!

[Destarius]

Chiropractors are full of crap, too. One fixed my back problem I had been having for years. So I guess I'd disagree.

[Hanzii]

One fixed my back problem I had been having for years. So I guess I'd disagree.

Those that stick to fixing back problems are fine(ish), but a lot (particulary in the US, apparently) also believe that they can cure non muscular ailments using their wacky practices.
Some will even rough up an infant (with potential risk to the spinal chord) to cure colic (I'm not sure you call it that - infants that won't stop crying). They also use ultrasound and other funky devices with no medical proof of their effect.
Here they're generally not covered by medical insurance and I think there's good reason for that.

[Midnight Son]

Not according to Wikipedia they're not!!!!

Well, they are. They clain to treat "subluxations." Unfortunately, they can't be seen visually, or by Xray, or by CAT scan or any other tool of science. Only chiropracters can find them. Yeah, ok.

[Athryn]

They also use ultrasound and other funky devices with no medical proof of their effect.
Here they're generally not covered by medical insurance and I think there's good reason for that.

They're generally no covered by insurance here either.

I did want to note though, an ultrasound is a perfectly legitimate piece of equipment btw, it's what real doctors use to look inside a pregnant woman without harming the baby.

[Charlatan]

When I was in a car accident my insurance had no issues covering my chiropractor. When I was thinking about going to one, I asked my doctor, and his advice to me was this: "go see one. If it helps you, keep going. If it doesn't help, don't go any more." It helped fix some incredible stiffness and pain in my neck and back, so I kept going. So I also would disagree that they're worthless.

[BaconTastesGood]

If it doesn't help, don't go any more." It helped fix some incredible stiffness and pain in my neck and back, so I kept going. So I also would disagree that they're worthless.

My comment was in jest -- my point is that the Wikipedia article is controlled by chiropractors since there is almost no dissenting opinion about the relative efficacy of chiropractic care in that article (at least, when I read it last).

The problem with the measurement of effectiveness, in particular of the anecdotal "I feel better, so they must work!", is that it isn't subject to a double blind test (by its very nature it's kind of hard to do a double blind) and the effectiveness is measured subjectively, similar to the cough syrup fiasco a few years ago.

It has the scientific validity of saying prayer cures cancer. In fact, it's not even that valid, since cancer is either there or it's not, it's not like you "feel less cancerous".

[Nellie]

I did want to note though, an ultrasound is a perfectly legitimate piece of equipment btw

But are they using Ultrasound to look at your cricked neck or using it to massage the flumblegrumpers that are causing your discomfort?

[Lum]

Back to scientologists from chiropractors, they are quite, quite used to people hassling them. It actually helps reinforce that they know the One True Way because evil people are trying to seduce them from the light.

[Houngan]

When I first moved to the Seattle area, there was a Church of Scientology right around the corner from the Microsoft main campus.

Probably recruiting the Microsoft millionaires of the day...

About a year ago it shut down, and the space is now occupied by a pawn shop.

Cults gain ground by recruiting depressed failures with little logical reasoning ability, not twenty-something millionaires with genius IQs.

H.

[Skipper]

I've read most of the stuff about them although I don't know any personally. It amazes me they have so many followers though. I caught a Panorama show on Scientology that addressed a lot of it. Probably the best part of the show was that you got to see the reaction of the Scientologists when addressed as a cult.

If I were to see the "free stress test" thing done here I would be tempted to get the test then say, "you know I'm surprised you guys do this for free being a cult and all that." Everyone needs a good laugh while at the mall.

[Flowers]

Daisy chains for thetans (http://www.nwtekno.org/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1892411#post1892411)!


A girl doesn't get killed by L. Ron Hubbard...cuz it's hot.
Some have to Dance, some have to Audit.
Confessions of an E-Meter.

[Lum]

A girl doesn't get killed by L. Ron Hubbard...cuz it's hot.
Some have to Dance, some have to Audit.
Confessions of an E-Meter.

I See Good Thetans And I See Bad Thetans
Kooler Than Hubbard
Xenusplosion!

[Odysseus]

Back to scientologists from chiropractors, they are quite, quite used to people hassling them. It actually helps reinforce that they know the One True Way because evil people are trying to seduce them from the light.

Hubbard built a whole mythology around this in the Guardians Office, now known as the Office of Special Affairs. Not only are evil people trying to seduce you from the light, there's a full-blown covert war and YOU might have what it takes to be a secret agent for Scientology!

He was good at subverting so many geeky desires. You get psychic powers, evil alien forces, spy games, uh...volcanos... My friend got drawn into it very deeply because of all the nerd-bait Hubbard used.

[Jake Plane]

For kicks, I went to one once, got their entire schtick down (some crap about how our brains are made up of reactive and cognitive processes and the former often comes from traumatic experiences in our lives - and these reactive experiences hold us back).

I then went back and told them my problem was that my brain was too cognitive and I lacked emotional reactions. Loved their reaction.

[Midnight Son]

When I was in a car accident my insurance had no issues covering my chiropractor. When I was thinking about going to one, I asked my doctor, and his advice to me was this: "go see one. If it helps you, keep going. If it doesn't help, don't go any more." It helped fix some incredible stiffness and pain in my neck and back, so I kept going. So I also would disagree that they're worthless.

I would agree that the placebo effect is alive and well.

[Dean]

There's an org in Boston on Beacon St. right near the BU campus. Back in the days of usenet, when they were getting local law enforcement to confiscate computers from people who downloaded Scientology's copyrighted scriptures, I used to read alt.religion.scientology and even went down and protested a couple of times.

It was kind of fun when you could read about "bull baiting" as outlined in their procedures, then go down and see them do it exactly by the numbers. Except if you've read the procedures you knew that during step 4 (or whatever) you were supposed to get enturbulated and angry, so you laughed instead. I used to laugh and dance around Scientologists that were screaming in my face. They didn't like that, because they had supernatural powers that would control my actions and I wasn't cooperating.

Then we'd go have lunch.

Eventually it got boring, and usenet died.

Or maybe their supernatural powers worked.

I'm probably on some list of theirs as a Potential Trouble Source, or some sort of Enemy of Scientology. Whatever.

[Flowers]

So Dean, what are your crimes?

[Cosmic Hippo]

I'm probably on some list of theirs as a Potential Trouble Source, or some sort of Enemy of Scientology. Whatever.Well, they have a giant list of "Declared SP's" (suppressive persons) that you might be on, but their main 'enemy' list is here. (http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/anti-religious-extremists/) The blurbs they have on these people are hilarious.

Also, for some examples of the "bull baiting" and other techniques they use to try and crush opposition:
http://xenutv.com/originals/4th.htm

Only, the guy in these videos (Mark Bunker) handles it very well, and in hilarious fashion.

[Lum]

So Dean, what are your crimes?

He beats his wife and/or children.

Well, they have a giant list of "Declared SP's" (suppressive persons) that you might be on, but their main 'enemy' list is here. (http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/anti-religious-extremists/) The blurbs they have on these people are hilarious.

My new mission in life is to get on this list.

[Dean]

I'm not on that list, but I used to hang out with a bunch of those people. Ted Mayett used to pick up the check on lunch (when the millionaire offers to pick up the check, why would you argue?), and Steve Hassan would stop by on his way to protesting Moonies.

The best I could claim was being in the Scientologist net-nanny software that wouldn't allow scientologists to go to anti-scientologist sites, or receive email from people like me, or even see forbidden words (like Xemu). It was a proud day when I made the list of banned people.

Coincidentally, that year I was invited to a conference of writers held by the Washington Times in DC. Lots of Unification Church sessions, and every table of every meal had a helpful moonie to talk to us. I was told I was invited because I was one of the "most notable" writers in America. I guess everyone who had won a Pulitzer passed.

Is it wrong to take a free trip to DC and then skip out on most of the conference sessions? I guess that's my crime, but when one lecturer actually said that the first law of thermodynamics only works on Earth, I laughed, got up, and went to the Air and Space Museum.

[Glenn]

ANSWER THE QUESTION, DEAN. WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES?

[Lum]

Oh look, now you've enturbulated him.

[Destarius]

I would agree that the placebo effect is alive and well. When I go from "shit that hurts" to "what the hey, how'd you do that, there's hardly any pain!", I count that as beyond what a placebo can do.

[MikeSofaer]

When I go from "shit that hurts" to "what the hey, how'd you do that, there's hardly any pain!", I count that as beyond what a placebo can do.
Actually, that's one of the main things the placebo effect can do. I don't have a cite handy, but I'm pretty sure hypnosis has been used effectively as surgical anaesthesia, which is basically the same effect.

[Destarius]

Actually, that's one of the main things the placebo effect can do. I don't have a cite handy, but I'm pretty sure hypnosis has been used effectively as surgical anaesthesia, which is basically the same effect. My experience is that my chiropractor usually does a technique which has feedback (cracking sounds of some sort) followed by immediate relief to the area lasting for days. I don't share the view that it's a placebo because this doesn't work all the time - i.e. no correlation to the sound and to the relief (whereupon I tell her - "That didn't seem to do anything"). If you're saying the treatment is all in my mind, I'd vigourously dispute that.

[Midnight Son]

Ask him to show you the subluxation xrays, or ultrasound, or something that proves they ain't just making it up. Also: a massage might be cheaper.

[Calistas]

One thing about Scientologists, and it's something everyone should be wary of, and that is:

BEWARE THEIR SPIN-OFF ORGANISATIONS!

I have an ex who I think was part of a youth support and development group that was a gateway organisation for Scientology. The way she talked about how she had to address past issues (ie, when she was 5, she was mean to some girl, so she had to go and apologize to that person) and some of the other bizarre terminology and attitudes reminded me a lot of Scientology.

In the end she thought it was all a little silly - the past is in the past for a reason, no need to relive that stuff over and over again (even tho there's some primordial emotional release/feedback some people seem to get off on).. but I was quite convinced it was a Scientology thing, in all but name.

Scientologists WILL try and get into your schools and social circles and they'll do so in devious ways. Their drug and alcohol programs are well known (and despised), I think clambake.org will have an up-to-date list.

[MikeSofaer]

My experience is that my chiropractor usually does a technique which has feedback (cracking sounds of some sort) followed by immediate relief to the area lasting for days. I don't share the view that it's a placebo because this doesn't work all the time - i.e. no correlation to the sound and to the relief (whereupon I tell her - "That didn't seem to do anything"). If you're saying the treatment is all in my mind, I'd vigourously dispute that.
I'm saying that all pain is entirely in your mind, since only your brain can process nerve signals into pain, and that pain relief can be a result of expecting pain relief. I'm not implying anything about chiropractors, or how much of your relief comes from physical changes in your back.

[Calistas]

Watching those vids now.... arg, makes me so mad to see those guys and know that day by day they ruin people's lives and get away with it. So many crimes they get away with.... grrrr.

Wish I could Postulate Scientology Gone.

The little toothy guy is frickn' awesome!

[Flowers]

My cousin went to Narconon in Michigan. It totally worked.

[msdoran]

One thing about Scientologists, and it's something everyone should be wary of, and that is:

BEWARE THEIR SPIN-OFF ORGANISATIONS!

I have an ex who I think was part of a youth support and development group that was a gateway organisation for Scientology. The way she talked about how she had to address past issues (ie, when she was 5, she was mean to some girl, so she had to go and apologize to that person) and some of the other bizarre terminology and attitudes reminded me a lot of Scientology.

In the end she thought it was all a little silly - the past is in the past for a reason, no need to relive that stuff over and over again (even tho there's some primordial emotional release/feedback some people seem to get off on).. but I was quite convinced it was a Scientology thing, in all but name.

Scientologists WILL try and get into your schools and social circles and they'll do so in devious ways. Their drug and alcohol programs are well known (and despised), I think clambake.org will have an up-to-date list.

Along those lines, don't use earthlink as an ISP. It is controlled by Scientologists, and speculation has it that they monitor e-mails.

Also, please don't support any Scientologist actors. Don't go see ANY Tom Cruise, John Travolta, Kirstie Alley movies or anyone else who identifies themself as a Scientologist. Also, don't listen to Beck.

The only way you can hurt them is by not supporting them financially. They are just to ingrained in the US, they are never going away unfortunately.

As a post script. I read L. Ron Hubbards entire Mission earth series when I was in my early teenage years, and even then I could tell that he had some serious issues, especially with psychiatry.

[Euri]

Those videos interbulate me now more than ever!

[Raife]

Those videos interbulate me now more than ever!

It's enturbulate, dummy. Look it up.

[croman]

For those who haven't checked out clambake.org and xenutv.com fully, here's a vid that may explain things a little better (http://www.xenutv.com/trust/policevideo.htm) (Florida has it's own tag on Fark.com for a reason :-) )

And yeah, Xenutv and Mark Bunker are golden gods. Make sure to check out the rest of his site.

[Brad Grenz]

Whenever I see Scientologists at the mall, I discreetly screw the suppressor onto the barrel of my my automatic, casually walk up to the nearest acolyte and punch two nine millimeter holes through their face.

[croman]

Whenever I see [insert oppressed religion here] at the mall, I discreetly screw the suppressor onto the barrel of my my automatic, casually walk up to the nearest acolyte and punch two nine millimeter holes through their face.
=
"enturbulate"


I always wondered what that damn word meant....

[MikeSofaer]

I can't watch those videos, some codec that neither MPC nor VLC will play.

[croman]

I can't watch those videos, some codec that neither MPC nor VLC will play.

Xenutv? It's all Flash.

[MikeSofaer]

For me it's a bunch of links to .rm and .ram files that don't play.

[croman]

For me it's a bunch of links to .rm and .ram files that don't play.
I guess it's a browser thing if this (http://www.xenutv.com/originals/aftermath.htm) doesn't show 3 youtubish vid links. It does for me in firefox 2.0.0.4 and WinXP. Outside of the main vids there are realmedia links, but I haven't had a problem playing them with realmedia alternative.

[MikeSofaer]

Yeah, that stuff works, but those rms won't play in Media Player Classic. I'm probably doing it wrong.

[Kunikos]

He was good at subverting so many geeky desires. You get psychic powers, evil alien forces, spy games, uh...volcanos... My friend got drawn into it very deeply because of all the nerd-bait Hubbard used.

... and here I thought it was a concerted effort to coerce moronically naive people into giving away their life savings and enslaving their families.

[Odysseus]

... and here I thought it was a concerted effort to coerce moronically naive people into giving away their life savings and enslaving their families.

Well, no shit. But Hubbard was no dummy about ensnaring people, and the actual tactics employed by Scientology are fairly clever. It's the ultimate form of a writer knowing his audience.

[stusser]

The scientologists are in my subway station (union square) almost every day now, it seems. I hope they enjoy the extreme heat and that unique smell that only the 14th street station can offer.

[John Merva]

Hubbard built a whole mythology around this in the Guardians Office, now known as the Office of Special Affairs. Not only are evil people trying to seduce you from the light, there's a full-blown covert war and YOU might have what it takes to be a secret agent for Scientology!

He was good at subverting so many geeky desires. You get psychic powers, evil alien forces, spy games, uh...volcanos... My friend got drawn into it very deeply because of all the nerd-bait Hubbard used.

I can understand reading it and getting interested in the story but believing it as a religion? I mean, surely even people who put their religion down as Jedi and are serious about it must be aware that it's just a joke.

[Odysseus]

I can understand reading it and getting interested in the story but believing it as a religion? I mean, surely even people who put their religion down as Jedi and are serious about it must be aware that it's just a joke.

It's not presented that way, John. Of course from a high level overview it's patently retarded. Hubbard doles out the madness one drop at a time, though, and the little bits of it sound halfway reasonable to people who want to believe.

Dianetics, for example. It's kooky if you have any grounding in science and skepticism, but it sounds plausible to the kind of people who browse the self-help section at Barnes & Noble. My friend got drawn in completely by Dianetics, after he accidentally killed another guy and couldn't get past the guilt. The book promises to help with things like that, and Hubbard was good enough at lying that Dianetics rings true to desperate people.

And hey, not only will you feel better, it turns out that you are a potential SUPER HUMAN with perfect memory, perfect health, and (low whisper) other eerie powers...

Once you swallow Dianetics, it's a short step to paying for their "professional" auditing. And once you're that committed, you're pretty much on the path to believing anything they want to sell you.

[Kunikos]

I'm guessing this "The Secret" thing is going to turn into another Dianetics/Scientology thing. With Oprah as its celebrity endorser, they've already guaranteed legions of stay-at-home mothers.

[madkevin]

I'm guessing this "The Secret" thing is going to turn into another Dianetics/Scientology thing. With Oprah as its celebrity endorser, they've already guaranteed legions of stay-at-home mothers.

I sort of doubt it, because The Seekrit has a built-in fail-safe from becoming too popular, to wit: when the legions of book/dvd buyers try to wish themselves a puppy or a new car and it doesn't work. That's why that power of positive thinking nonsense seems to crop up at ten-year cycles - it takes that long for people to remember it didn't work the last time they tried it.

[John Merva]

It's not presented that way, John. Of course from a high level overview it's patently retarded. Hubbard doles out the madness one drop at a time, though, and the little bits of it sound halfway reasonable to people who want to believe.

Dianetics, for example. It's kooky if you have any grounding in science and skepticism, but it sounds plausible to the kind of people who browse the self-help section at Barnes & Noble. My friend got drawn in completely by Dianetics, after he accidentally killed another guy and couldn't get past the guilt. The book promises to help with things like that, and Hubbard was good enough at lying that Dianetics rings true to desperate people.

And hey, not only will you feel better, it turns out that you are a potential SUPER HUMAN with perfect memory, perfect health, and (low whisper) other eerie powers...

Once you swallow Dianetics, it's a short step to paying for their "professional" auditing. And once you're that committed, you're pretty much on the path to believing anything they want to sell you.

You make a very good point and I can see how people would be interested in this.

[Rimbo]

It's Cult 101, really. What Hubbard's doing with Scientology isn't anything new. You tell people what they want to hear, cut them off from their support group (if they still have one), and get 'em to pay up. After a certain point, they're both financially and emotionally invested beyond the point of no return.