HDTV for $1000 or under for gaming and SD TV viewing

[Cyrano]

Sorry to ask another boring HDTV question here, but after searching videophile forums I'm more confused than when I started. My wife and I looked at cheap HDTVs and ended up buying a Westinghouse W4207 42" LCD set at Best Buy. It looks great for 720p Xbox 360 gaming and 720p HD broadcasts from Dish network, but is looks worse than ass for SD broadcasts and SD recordings from the Dish network DVR. It literally has about the same kind of color banding and pixellization you would find from a FMV game from the early '90s. I've got the Dish DVR hooked up via component because I wouldn't pay $50 at Best Buy for an HDMI cord, but I can't imagine the HDMI cord arriving in a few days from a 'net dealer will make that much of a difference.

Does anyone know if all LCD sets in our price range (under $1000) have really crappy upscaling of SD sources? Could the Dish DVR compression be part of the problem? I've read that plasma sets do a much better job with SD sources, but I'm a little afraid that the 1024x720 resolution found in sub-$1000 plamsa sets won't cut it for gaming.

Before we return this set, has anybody tried gaming on one of those 1024x720 plasmas? Has anybody seen an inexpensive LCD that does a decent job upscaling SD content?

[DennyA]

The Sharp Aquos has very good upscaling of SD, and the HD looks great (very dark blacks, etc.) But you'll have to settle for a smaller size to keep the price under $1,000.

[Sean Hargraves]

I'd recommend the HDMI cable. I, too, have an HDTV and a Dish Network subscription, and the difference was apparent to me.

You can pick up a cheap 3' cable at wal-mart for about $25.

[Robert Sharp]

Forget walmart for HDMI cables. Use this place:

www.monoprice.com

And SD just doesn't look good on any LCD, to be honest. But you can make it better with the right cord, and more importantly by adjusting your color settings. There are lots of sites that can help you with this, but generally you just have to play with it. DO NOT USE THE STOCK SETTINGS!

[zabuni]

There are some definite downsides, but have you considered an HD CRT? SD signals would not be a problem, and they have excellent black levels. And most of them are quite cheap.

Downsides include:

*Weight. For a decent sized set, you are looking at +100lbs
*Bulk. These sets will take a large amount of space, and most media centers are not equipped to accommodate either the size or the weight of a tube
*Geometry Issues. Most of the current HD CRTs are slim tubes. This does make them a little slimmer than a normal tube of the same size, but it causes fuzziness on the edges.
*The sizes do not get much larger than 30 inches.

Anyway, I own an LG 30FS4D, a 30 inch tube. It suits my needs, but it was hell getting it on the tv stand, and if I ever move, I will sell it.

As far as other sets: price, size, and quality. Pick two.

[rei]

How about a Westinghouse?

[Dean]

I'm curious, because I'm also in the market for an HDTV, and based upon the previous thread (http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=29064&page=2), the Westinghouse 42" LCD Monitor (http://amazon.com/Westinghouse-LVM-42W2-1080p-Video-Monitor/dp/B000E7RACK/ref=pd_ys_qtk_k2a/105-2456383-0866054?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-1&pf_rd_r=1F535QAYFWGHBBQ7CXPA&pf_rd_t=1501&pf_rd_p=233144501&pf_rd_i=home) coupled with an HDTV cable box got the big thumbs up.

So I haven't been able to find one of these in Best Buy or Circuit City to look at (the best I found was the 37") but I found the Westinghouse 42" LCD 1080p HDTV (http://amazon.com/Westinghouse-TX-42F430S-1080p-LCD-HDTV/dp/B000NIDJ3E/ref=pd_ys_qtk_k2a/105-2456383-0866054?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-1&pf_rd_r=1F535QAYFWGHBBQ7CXPA&pf_rd_t=1501&pf_rd_p=233144501&pf_rd_i=home) which is actually cheaper than the monitor.

I thought the reason the monitor was so cheap was that it didn't include the tuner, so why is the version with the tuner cheaper?

[Cyrano]

Thanks for the advise, guys. I've got an HDMI cable on order from monoprice. I should arrive with enough time to try it out before the 14-day return policy expires at Best Buy.

Dean, those Westinghouse 42" monitors you linked to are higher-end models than the one I got, which was on clearance. I'm guessing they have better processing chips in addition to being 1080p.

I also noticed last night that the Dish DVR has an input for an antenna. I could probably get by with local channels in HD in addition to the Dish HD channels.

[Coca Cola Zero]

The newer Westinghouse TX models use different panels than the older LVMs (the LVMs are the ones that have been widely raved about on these forums and other places). I haven't seen or used a TX, but from what I've heard they are supposed to have better color reproduction, but seem to be more prone to having issues with ghosting in some instances, and the upscaling isn't as good.

Also, in addition to going to HDMI you should try to play around with different scaling options to see what works best for your setup: using the box to upscale or using the tv. I have no experience with the Dish TV box but after playing around with my own setup I found the tv (an 42" LVM) upscaled much better than the DVR, so I have my DVR just send any SD signals as-is to the tv instead of upscaling them itself. YMMV depending upon the scaling quality of your box vs your tv

[Robert Sharp]

Yes, Cyrano, you should use an antenna for all local stations anyway. They will look better than even the HD versions of cable or satellite.

And if you use DVR, you can absolutely record those OTA signals on your DVR. I do it all the time.

[Cyrano]

Coca Cola Zero,

Changing the scaling options was one of my first thoughts, but I can't find any options to change the SD output on the Dish DVR. Maybe I'm missing them. Maybe I can find a Dish forum to ask somebody.

I did see the options to find OTA stations and an antenna input on the back of the DVR, so even though the TV doesn't have a tuner, I should be O.K.

[DennyA]

Tangent: I had no idea that "Westinghouse" has nothing to do with the 100+ year old company... CBS just sold the name all over the place. Amusingly, the Westinghouse Digital Electronics website has a history of the Westinghouse company that dates back to the 1800s, talks about the lightbulb innovations (lightbulbs are now from Westinghouse Lighting Corp, a different company that used to be called Angelo Brothers), and neglects to mention that the Westinghouse LCD company is only a few years old.

There's also a garage door company, a heating/AC company, solar lighting, and vacuum cleaner companies, all using the Westinghouse name, but completely unrelated to each other.

The only remnants of the original company that can actually trace their origins back to the real Westinghouse are the nuclear company (now owned by Toshiba, which is apparently buying nuclear secrets now instead of stealing them) and the railroad signal company.

[Cyrano]

Here's an update if anyone's interested.

I hooked up an antenna, and the over-the-air SD broadcasts look pretty darn good. There is still some distortion around the edges, which must be the fault of the TV. But compared to the same local stations over Dish Network, the OTA channels look great.

The lesson I'm drawing from this is that Dish is doing some pretty severe compression either in the broadcast or in the DVR.

[mouselock]

Here's an update if anyone's interested.

I hooked up an antenna, and the over-the-air SD broadcasts look pretty darn good. There is still some distortion around the edges, which must be the fault of the TV. But compared to the same local stations over Dish Network, the OTA channels look great.


I've had similar problems with some of the "bonus" channels on Comcast digital. Especially with things that have low contrast (which seem to be very susceptible to bad macroblocking with heavy compression). It just seems to be one of those things which comes along with "all digital" content delivery.

[Robert Sharp]

The best SD channels I've seen on my LCD come from DirecTV, which is why I am using them...well, part of the reason. I also just like satellite.

[Michael Fortson]

The only remnants of the original company that can actually trace their origins back to the real Westinghouse are the nuclear company (now owned by Toshiba, which is apparently buying nuclear secrets now instead of stealing them) and the railroad signal company.
That reminds me... I learned on and used to work with the S5W reactor from them. Wow that seems like a lifetime ago. I had the feeling those TVs had nothing to do with the historic US company -- it just screamed "cheap import" when they first came out, though they seem to have matured some since then.

[Kunikos]

I've been eying the 42" Vizio 1080p HDTV on sale for $999 at Costco. Anyone know if it's crap or what?

[Sean Hargraves]

But compared to the same local stations over Dish Network, the OTA channels look great.

For whatever reason, if I use the four digit channel number for my local stations (both HD & SD) they look far superior than if I use the local's channel number.

A nice bonus of Dish's HD DVR is SD TVs can view HD content. I don't like the inability to watch a show live while another is recording though.

I have a 720p HDTV (Vizio's L32) and I notice better picture quality with the DVR set to scale to 720p than 1080i.

Is it normal for the DVR to be so derned hot? Mine feels like it's going to melt through the desk it's on, even in "standby" mode.

[Islanti]

No idea on the quality of this (http://www.outlet.philips.com/), but the lowest price on a 42" Plasma I've seen.

[Kevin Grey]

Not LCD, but I have two Samsung DLPs (46" 720p and 61" 1080p) and both have surprisingly excellent scalers. SD content looks really, really good.