Company of Heroes Nazi Strats?

[worm]

I end up playing the allies ALL THE TIME, just because I like how they play better. It feels like the Terror Doctrine is useless and that the N to the A to the Z to the I to the motherfucking S take far too long to get mobilized. Mainly I go for Armor, but by that time the computer has enough counter measures in place or good armor themselves.

Can anyone suggest a slightly faster/offensive way for me to be a nazi?

[markv]

I so want to make a comment but I think I'll just bite my tongue..

[worm]

Yeah, I framed it in an odd way because it's an odd question.

Though if I can only play one side what's the point of getting into multiplayer again? Should I rush and forget about escalating unless I need to? Should I defend and build up resources for a giant assault?

[wisefool]

I've only played a dozen or so online games so far, but I started on Nazi side. I would suggest gamereplays.org and watching the aniketos replays.

He uses strong, early infantry commitment and outplays them - the allies don't get to the point they can deploy armor.

[Alan Au]

It's all about limiting Allied mobility.

- Alan

[worm]

So I should play the Nazi more like the Zerg, right? Thanks.

[Soapyfrog]

I usually throw out a lot of MGs and a few snipers, and that works well for me until I can start popping out tanks.

Of course I don't play competetively online so this advice is probably useless! None of my friends has managed to master the rifleman + halftrack strat.

[Marcus]

/insert witty racist comment about larger ovens.

[Enidigm]

Build nothing but Pioneers. If some die, build more. This will take your opponent completely by suprise.

If you start to lose, disconnect.

Repeat until you win!

[Alan Au]

Build nothing but Pioneers. If some die, build more. This will take your opponent completely by suprise.

If you start to lose, disconnect.

Repeat until you win! The scary thing is that this actually works (http://www.gamereplays.org/community/Absurdly_massed_pioneersl-t245413.html).

- Alan

[Robert Sharp]

Here you go:

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/5813/nazistratji6.jpg

[Enidigm]

Nice.

[EFlannum]

I've found that the veteran upgrades for the axis are extremely important. If you can survive the initial ally push your veteran troops will really begin to slaughter his. In particular veteran volksgrenadiers with the submachine gun upgrade will destroy any other infantry in the game (you have to get in close though). Veteran panzers and panthers are also far superior to any single allied tank except for the pershing.

[wisefool]

Okay the single best tip I learned:

As your pioneers pop out, SHIFT CLICK capture orders on the strat map.

[ElGuapo]

Come on now. In our world of make believe little wars and WWII mania, everyone called them The Germans or The Axis. No one calls them The Nazis, not even the game.

[Charles]

Hey, Godwin's Law.

[Matt Perkins]

I've won more as the Allies, but I definitely like playing as the Axis more. They get to upgrade their troops at will. They don't have to get them to veteran by killing things (a very iffy proposition). That's a HUGE advantage.

The volks are the key to winning the infantry war. Then you'll be pushing back with tanks not long after that.

Edit: adding on to that, so it makes sense. Once I started upgrading my troops and really using the volks, I started winning a lot more with the Axis.

[JPR]

Alternatively, you can go Blitzkrieg and use Stormtroopers as your primary infantry unit. They are significantly stronger than Volks, they can cloak, and they can upgrade to Panzerschreks or machine guns.

I know this isn't what you're asking about, but late game the Knights Cross Holders are unimaginably tough. One three man squad can take down two full rifle squads without losing a man.

[worm]

Come on now. In our world of make believe little wars and WWII mania, everyone called them The Germans or The Axis. No one calls them The Nazis, not even the game.
Wait. I'm allowed to call them Nazi's in an online game, right? I don't want to get banned of a faux pas here. Cuz, they're nazis to me.

I've found that the veteran upgrades for the axis are extremely important. If you can survive the initial ally push your veteran troops will really begin to slaughter his. In particular veteran volksgrenadiers with the submachine gun upgrade will destroy any other infantry in the game (you have to get in close though). Veteran panzers and panthers are also far superior to any single allied tank except for the pershing.
I just noticed how great the Grenadiers are in mass with their rocket launcer upgrade. I didn't realize it was a reusable thing. I'm going to go right for them every time now. I just tried the upgrades, and do I ever feel stupid for ignoring it.

Alternatively, you can go Blitzkrieg and use Stormtroopers as your primary infantry unit. They are significantly stronger than Volks, they can cloak, and they can upgrade to Panzerschreks or machine guns.

I know this isn't what you're asking about, but late game the Knights Cross Holders are unimaginably tough. One three man squad can take down two full rifle squads without losing a man.
Thanks. It's probably important to start trying out different stuff even if I don't prefer to play as them, just to know how to respond.

[Paxton]

For someone new to the game trying to learn to play axis, I would suggest you build MG, volks, MG, volks. Garrison the MGs in key buildings to control parts of the map, and use the volks for skirmishing and capturing points. Upgrade your volks with MP40s as soon as you can and try to fight in close range. Strategically, try to prevent allies from collecting fuel, as they are very dependent on it.

[Lum]

OK, ignoring the nazophilia oozing all over this thread, about the only German doctrine line I do poorly with is Defensive.

Blitz has three highlights. First highlight is right out of the gate: Assault Grenades. For 50 munis all your infantry can launch a supergrenade attack. Unlike ordinary grenade strikes, the infantry will follow the unit targeted and launch an array of about 6 grenades. Will totally ruin an AT gun's day, and can intercept a BAR-firing allied inf squad. Second highlight is Stormtroopers. Cloaked grenadiers, basically. Cloak them and walk them behind fortifications/AT guns, then cut loose with an assault grenade attack. Third highlight is the Tiger->Resource Blitz->Tiger combo to get 2 Tigers out on the field in rapid succession. It'll shut down your resources for a few minutes, but, hey, you have two tigers.

Terror isn't as cut and dried as Blitz but there are some interesting strats there as well. One of the best is to get about 4 or 5 Grenadier squads with Panzershrecks, supported by a halftrack for reinforcing, and then when those squads run into opposition (especially armored) cut loose with Inspired Assault, which turns your grenadiers into autofiring monstrosities. I have killed a Pershing this way. With Grenadier squads. It surprised my opponent, too. Once you give your Grenadiers veterancy, they become REALLY hard to kill.

[Lum]

Upgrade your volks with MP40s as soon as you can and try to fight in close range.

Always Always Always micro your MP40 Volks to be right on top of enemy infantry. By default they will run for cover, and MP40s at point blank range will tear apart Allied infantry. Allied infantry (especially with BARs) will tear YOU up at range. You want to be up close.

Once the Allies get a lot of armor out you'll want to switch to Grenadiers/Stormtroopers, Volks don't really hold up in the end game. Knights Cross are monstrosities for anti-infantry but they don't have any anti-armor capability.

[worm]

OK, ignoring the nazophilia oozing all over this thread, about the only German doctrine line I do poorly with is Defensive.
Wait, so I'm not supposed to call them Nazis as if to avoid the perceived slight of acknowledging I'm playing a video game where I'm a Nazi, the opposite of such denial being nazophilia? I said Nazi so much because it was funny. I didn't realize you guys self justify what you think to be gravely disrespectful (playing the nazi side in WW2 games) by calling them the not-allies. Sorry.

All the advice is great. One question, will the Grenadiers fire the Panzershrecks from a halftrack? Does that make for a pretty decent anti-tank defense, or should I just pony up for stugs?

[Alan Au]

Come on now. In our world of make believe little wars and WWII mania, everyone called them The Germans or The Axis. No one calls them The Nazis, not even the game.
Actually, you're going to want to start calling them the Wehrmacht, so as not to confuse them with the Panzer Elite once the expansion is released.

- Alan

[Lum]

I thought the "N to the A to the Z" stuff was a bit much, personally, but only really insane people are nazophiles. Trust me, I've been a board wargamer, I've met the really insane people. At any rate I don't think I'm playing Nazis or Germans when I play, I think more that I am ripping apart the units owned by Phil down the hall with my lovingly placed MG nests.

Grenadiers won't fire Panzershrecks from the halftrack, but they will from buildings, so if you see a quad-mount halftrack or a Pershing, hole up in the nearest building and snipe from the windows.

The best antitank units in the game are anti-tank guns. Of course some advanced planning is required, but they are the absolute most efficient at killing armor. If you're on the offense, skip StuGs and go for Panzer IVs (StuGs got nerfed massively a couple of patches back and aren't as cost efficient as they used to be). If you can't afford Panzer IVs, that is an excellent sign that you should be building AT guns, because your opponent CAN afford tanks and they are headed for you.

[worm]

I thought the "N to the A to the Z" stuff was a bit much, personally, but only really insane people are nazophiles.
If you wanna think of it as parody of those insane people, fine, I just thought it was a plain hilarious way to ask. I know a guy who got a swastika tattooed on the back of his neck because of german heritage and all that crap.

The best antitank units in the game are anti-tank guns. Of course some advanced planning is required, but they are the absolute most efficient at killing armor.
Yeah, I've been working harder at setting up choke points. The computer does some really shady shit with messing up my guns by putting their anti-tank guns on odd angles and blowing mine up. Is that the kind of stuff I'm often going to find in multiplayer?

[Greatatlantic]

I wrote the Tier 3 rush guide linked below. However, there have been several patches and rebalances since it first came out and the whole thing might be worthless now. Still, it helped me defeat some of the highest ranked allied players of the day. Also, I've linked to gamereplays.org Axis strategy section, which should offer you more recent strategies and general tactics.

Tier 3 rush: http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index.php?showtopic=142243

Axis Strategy Index: http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index.php?showtopic=189621

[Lum]

Yeah, Tier 3 rushing is kinda outdated now that Pumas and StuGs both got nerfed into goo. Most likely due to Tier 3 rushing!

[Unicorn McGriddle]

Do you really want to try to race a barely-armored halftrack around to the back of the tank so your soldiers can plink at it with their pixy stix? Get the StuGs. They're not that expensive, and if you handle their facing carefully and repair them when necessary, they're pretty survivable. The "self-propelled gun" description is an excellent explanation of their proper use: a StuG is an AT gun, except that it moves faster and is a hard target. Keep dangerous infantry away from them and don't let anything fuck them in the ass, and they will put solid shots into any situation. Not only do they kill vehicles, but they're also a relatively early-game wrecking crew for buildings. Like regular AT guns, they're even sometimes useful for putting distant infantry under fire.

I think Defensive is pretty neat, although bear in mind that I have been playing far less CoH lately than I would like, and I have not extensively used the Defensive doctrines. The super-bunkers encourage you to establish strongpoints and defensive lines. I like to have a "no man's land" of claimed points in range of my defenses if possible. These points exist as lures for my opponent. They go in there, and all of my defenses can hit them. I may drop a Registered Artillery strike on them if necessary -- it's cheap, fast, and powerful, possibly the best artillery strike in the game (because there's almost no warning; the Allies hear the shells falling and all of a sudden they've lost three squads).

Depending on the game type, this may be all you need to do to win. If you can hold a line that lets you secure enough victory points, you're home free. For other victory conditions, the line can still be useful by giving you a layer of defenses that you can fall back to for repair, reinforcement, and fire support.

The Defensive 88 is powerful, but the investment of resources is hard for me to justify given its vulnerability. Once your opponent knows where it is, he'll hit it with any artillery strike at his disposal. This is true of defensive emplacements in general, but bunkers can shelter infantry from artillery, and the infantry can then come out and repair the bunkers. The 88 may be worth it against an Airborne player, since it can fight back against airstrikes. Advance Warning, Registered Artillery, and base MGs also make life difficult for Airbornes attempting paratrooper infiltration.

I always forget to use For the Fatherland, or lack the munitions, or wish to keep the munitions for something else. I don't know how effective it is, or how much I'm missing out. When I remember to activate it, it's usually in a situation where I have overwhelming firepower anyway and kick myself for wasting the resources later. (One squad of Rangers is trying to cap a point in front of three bunkers, half my infantry, and a StuG! AAAAAHH NEIN!)

I typically spend points as follows: For the Fatherland (1), Super Bunkers (2) (also gives base MGs), Advance Warning (1), Registered Artillery (2). This is, admittedly, pretty rigid, but I want super bunkers as fast as possible. Reinforcement at bunkers is the wind beneath my wings. I may put off Registered Artillery or even Advance Warning for the 88 in unusual situations (such as having a really great spot for one, or knowing the enemy has gone Airborne).

If you don't make Rocket Artillery the last thing on the tree, be sure to have a good reason to go for it. If the enemy has Infantry, you'll want Rocket Artillery soon to counter his Howitzers when necessary. (I think Infantry is the hardest tree for Defensive to fight. Lots of artillery vs. fixed positions.) If you can infiltrate a sniper to kill the Howitzer's crew, that's cool too, but Rocket Artillery will let you reach that crap in the back and touch it fairly hard. Rocket Artillery can also support an attack. If you have a lot of Munitions to get rid of, you can shell his base repeatedly, which is at worst a nuisance and at best a building-killer. It's no V-2, though.

I should stress again that my thoughts are not authoritative and I should really be playing more CoH.

Edit: They nerfed StuGs? Shit.

[Lum]

not so much nerfed directly (although Pershings get bonus damage vs them now) as made them more expensive to build, which kind of defeats the purpose of Tier 3 rushing. They're good to pop out 1 as a counter to early Allied riflespam, but other Axis tanks are better in every way and not much more expensive.

[JPR]

Stugs become a lot more survivable with 1 point of veterency. With 2 points, they get a mounted machine gun that supresses infantry.

[Unicorn McGriddle]

A higher price will really hurt them for me, though, since it makes them less viable as "deluxe AT guns." Oh well, AT guns aren't that bad. German AT guns can cloak!

[Matt Perkins]

Speaking of cloaked AT guns, anyone else noticed the cloaked AT guns of the Axis sometimes don't shoot? Sometimes things will be in range and I have to order them to shoot. And no, the hold fire icon is not clicked.

[Brad Wardell]

I tend to use the Defensive doctrine and try to get those 88's as quickly as I can. They're only 400 manpower resources and can really put a chink into allied armor.

Then, to back that up, I try to get crack/elite snipers (the ones who can take 2 shots at a time). It's a pretty potent combination, particularly against airborne which I tend to think is the best allied doctrine (and best overall as well).

[Raife]

Can anyone suggest a slightly faster/offensive way for me to be a nazi?

Throw the Jew down the well?

Then, to back that up, I try to get crack/elite snipers (the ones who can take 2 shots at a time). It's a pretty potent combination, particularly against airborne which I tend to think is the best allied doctrine (and best overall as well).

Really? I have a hard time with anything but Infantry, but that's probably more because I suck. I find Rangers a lot more effective than Paratroopers, but air-dropping AT guns is handy.

[Matt Perkins]

When playing the Allies I'm almost exclusively Infantry. Faster production, Rangers and the super duper air strike on the other side of the tree really make it useful.

[Jab2565]

For axis, in the early game volks with the gun upgrade will beat allied infantry as long as they don't have the gun upgrade(sorry I don't remember the exact names). In order to stand a chance you need to either have a HMG traveling with them or get to tier 2. The upgrades really do make a difference and rank 3 infantry upgraded will beat allied infantry any time. The officer is a must have unit even if it's just for the increased production ability, or sending him out to use his powers. If your going to focus on tanks then getting at least rank2 for the already mentioned stug upgrade is important.

I've found myself liking blitzkreg more as the stormtroopers with their enhanced grenade can make a huge difference in battle. One strategy I've heard but haven't confirmed it , is that 2 grenader or stormtrooper troops that having 1 panzershrek upgrade for each rather then 2 for one is better.
I think the ostwend is still a bit weak and I don't know how effective it would be now.

[Matt Perkins]

I think I built and officer once, a long time ago. I assume I'm missing out on something not using them...? And if so, what should I be doing with them?

[Lum]

Officers give you a mini-terror tree. They can call down artillery strikes and force retreat infantry units.

[JPR]

They kind of do their own thing.

They have forced retreat, which is like Propoganda from the terror tree, except it only targets one squad now, I think. It's good for turning the tide of a close battle or saving a point before it can be decapped in a close game.

Their artillery, which I believe is called a registered mortar strike(?), is very similar to the registered artillery you can get in the defensive tree. It is really concentrated, does a good bit of damage, and comes down fast. It can appreciably hurt tanks and will kill pretty much any infantry that's caught in it.

They also can sit in your base and speed up tank production. It can take an eternity to crank out a Panther, but if you attach the officer to your tank depot, it becomes a lot more reasonable.

[Matt Perkins]

Increased production sounds great. The other parts sound good too. I'll definitely have to give him a try.

[AndrewM]

I really need to play some CoH. It has been far too long.

[Brad Wardell]

Yea, CoH is probably my favorite game of the last couple of years. The computer players are particularly good in that game (especially for an RTS).

[Matt Perkins]

I don't think I've ever played a game of skirmish in that game. And only a couple of the campaign levels. The multiplayer is just so good.

[Jab2565]

If anyone wants to play, I'm going to try hosting a COH night again around 9 or 10 pm est tomorrow.

I've played alittle bit of AI skirmishes, usually after a patch to see what's changed.

[JPR]

I'll be on with my friend we've played with a couple of times.

[hong]

I keep reading this as "Company of Nazi Heroes Strats".

[Raife]

When playing the Allies I'm almost exclusively Infantry. Faster production, Rangers and the super duper air strike on the other side of the tree really make it useful.

Yeah, the Arty strike is so much better than the crappy P47 strafe that it's almost sad. Since it uses munitions, it also doesn't cut into your tank production.

[Lum]

Um... the strafing run also uses munitions only, and vs. infantry squads and AT guns it can be devastating. Unupgraded Axis infantry will die en masse.

[Raife]

Oh ok, I thought it used Fuel. It's still been totally ineffective for me when I've played Air Doctrine, and I'd rather have the anti-tank damage of artillery. Plus, Rangers. AT gun drops aren't enough to justify going Air, especially considering what's available in the other two Doctrines.

[Matt Perkins]

Yeah, I agree big time with Raife. The Air tree has never done it for me if the game is anything but heavy infantry.


As for the Axis and commander type guy. Boy that was useful. Pumping out tanks at high speeds is great.


On a side note though, how are the Allies supposed to stand up to the Axis when we're talking infantry. The grenadiers that can upgrade to get both machine gun and rockets kill pretty much any infantry troop if they get up on them. And a couple of the squads fully upgraded (experience wise) take out most things.

What I am supposed to do the Allies side?


Basically, I'm saying, the more I play the Axis, the harder it is to go back to the Allies. The Axis have better thanks, better infantry, etc. And the super fight infantry power for 50M is so good and recharges really fast.

[JPR]

The Allied riflemen can get BARs and use suppression fire + grenades.

Also, panzerschreks aren't effective against infantry.

[Matt Perkins]

The Allied riflemen can get BARs and use suppression fire + grenades.

Also, panzerschreks aren't effective against infantry.
Yeah, BARs are good, but they really don't step me from cutting them down when I have the machine gun upgrade along with the panzerschrek upgrade... plus, I spend 50 Munitions and my guys become gods for 60 seconds or whatever. I destroy for squads of allied troops last night with two troops of grenadiers, each having one machine gun and one panzer upgrade just by spending 50 munitions. I lost a guy on each squad. What the hell am I supposed to do about that on the Allied side. :D

[Lum]

Yeah, I agree big time with Raife. The Air tree has never done it for me if the game is anything but heavy infantry.

On a side note though, how are the Allies supposed to stand up to the Axis when we're talking infantry.

Again, the strafing power for Allied airborne is the most powerful anti-infantry tool in their arsenal. You do have to aim them, lead them, and occasionally sacrifice a unit to sucker the German player into keeping his squads in place... but well timed, one strafing run will wipe out a screenful of infantry. Unupgraded, squads will outright die. Fully upgraded, a squad will take heavy losses and need to retreat.

I know when I play the Axis stormtrooper/blitz infantry strat, the one thing I fear most is an Airborne player with good air strikes.

Also, quad halftracks are pretty cost-effective anti-infantry tools. Massed grenadiers with shrecks will shred them, but by that point you should have tanks out.

[JPR]

Yeah, BARs are good, but they really don't step me from cutting them down when I have the machine gun upgrade along with the panzerschrek upgrade... plus, I spend 50 Munitions and my guys become gods for 60 seconds or whatever. I destroy for squads of allied troops last night with two troops of grenadiers, each having one machine gun and one panzer upgrade just by spending 50 munitions. I lost a guy on each squad. What the hell am I supposed to do about that on the Allied side. :D

We're talking about Inspired Assault? Yeah, that's handy.

You have to look at the infantry war in terms of the whole game, though. Allied infantry are cheaper than Axis infantry, their grenades are WAY better (not true for Stormtroopers, and I'm not that sure about Assault grenades), they only buy their upgrades once. Riflemen are supposed to be a flexible, multipurpose unit, while the Axis infantry have more specific roles. If you buy some veterancy and set your infantry squads up to be anti-infantry, then yes, the Axis infantry will win. But to do that you spent 300 manpower on the squad and 100 munitions on the machine guns (those numbers are per squad) and 400 manpower and 80 fuel on veterancy, plus 100 manpower and 30 fuel for the Kampkraft center.

The Allies upgrade their riflemen once to BARs and once to grenades and then they get them for 270 manpower each. They can call a free strafing run on you for every squad you upgrade to machine guns.

[Lum]

Axis = few units, carefully husbanded, that will always win a 1v1 straight up fight vs their counterparts.

Allied = you killed my unit? It's ok, 3 more are on the way.

[Matt Perkins]

That makes sense then...and it explains why I'm doing better with the Axis rather than the Allies. I'm definitely more Axis play style by the way you describe them Lum. That's just my natural tendency in RTS games.

[Jab2565]

With the axis vs allied infantry there is a time in the beginning of the game that if the allies get bars before the axis player can get the grenaders out, that the axis is severely in trouble and can lose very easily at that point. I've had that happen to me when the player massed fuel for bar instead of teching up.

When playing against someone using air, always bulid a bunker and get the medic station, I've gotten back at least 3 grenader squads in a single match using it. The assault grenade skill I think lets them break suppression to rush an area but I don't know how well it works post patch.

I still think air needs to be nerfed alittle bit, it's way to easy to drop a squad anywhere on the map, or at least get the anti air units on the axis side buffed a bit.

[Lum]

Yeah, air is still pretty gamey overpowered. The supply drop took a huge honking nerf though, I don't even bother to learn it now.

How long is the range on the Axis medic station? I've only used it a couple of times and should probably do it more when I go inf.

[JPR]

I think it's around a screen. Maybe a little bigger.

[Matt Perkins]

I never use the medic station...

A screen doesn't really seem like that much.

[Matt Perkins]

So, who here plays online? I'm about rank five in both Allies and Axis and kinda stuck there. I've learned some good info here, but I'd love to figure out what I'm doing wrong and get better if someone wants to play me. :)

[JPR]

A friend and I had been playing regularly for a few weeks, but I've been having to take a lot of work home this week. pfreak wanted to arrange games tonight starting at 9 or 10 eastern, and hopefully I will go back to being online at night pretty regularly. My profiles are "roberdjp" and "confirmed".

[Matt Perkins]

I'll add both, jpr. I'm "wzrd".

Though I don't think I can make it tonight. But that timing is normally pretty good for me.

[JPR]

Oh, yeah. I didn't remember that was you.

[Jab2565]

When I'm not playing anything else I'm usually on around that time.

I always thought the medic stations' range was alot longer then a screen.

[JPR]

I meant a radius of a screen, not a diameter of a screen.

[Alan Au]

I think the medic station range is something more along the lines of nebelwerfer range. The trick with medic stations is whether or not you think they will pay for themselves over the duration of the game, which is pretty much once you've gotten 2 free squads. Of course, this can mess you up if you're getting close to the population cap and were saving room for a heavy tank or artillery.

- Alan

[Paxton]

The axis medic bunker upgrade is great. I don't think I would build a bunker just to get it, but if you want to lay one down anyway for an MG42 garrison, then the medic upgrade it generally worth it. It's especially nice if you are skipping tier 2, because it gives you a way to get grenadiers and panzershrecks without building a kreigs barracks.

[wisefool]

I post faster, Pfreak!

[Jab2565]

I'm on now with wisefool, anyone else coming?

[Lum]

Thought you said 9 eastern. I can get on now, though.

Edit: Don't see anyone around.

[Jab2565]

we're back in chat now