Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD

[Hanzii]

So according to the numbers (and a thread I'm too lazy to look up) Blu-ray is outselling HD-DVD 3 to 1... but those numbers are hardly impressive when regular dvd is outselling both 20 to 1.

I've had a chance to play around with the HD-DVD addon to the Xbox 360 and watch some Blu-ray movies on the PS3. Now I ask this question to those who have WATCHED BOTH, which do you think is superior.

I just finished watching Casino Royale on Blu-ray and much admit that regular dvd will be tough to watch - but i'll try at better upscaling dvd-player, before I shell out 650$ for a player and start rebuying my dvd-collection.

I haven't rally toyed with HD-DVD yet, so it's too easy for me to vote in my own poll. I tdoes look like the Blu-ray features have extra material, where the HD-DVD just offers HD-quality for a premium.

What do you think?

[Brad Grenz]

I don't think there's any real question of technical superiority. Authoring has a bigger impact. But both support the exact same video and audio codecs. The interactive features will be different, but that's not much to go on right now. Blu-ray discs simply hold more data. I think right now this is most often evidenced by the inclusion of lossless audio tracks which are far less common on HD-DVDs.

[Machfive]

As Brad has stated, from a technical standpoint, there's little difference. There's some stuff on the manufacturing side, there's the capacity difference, and there's cost to the end user.

Personally, I care less about HD-DVD winning and more about Blu-ray failing, just to see Sony end up with more egg on its face. Stupid? Perhaps, but Sony's one of those companies I could hate on endlessly for the shit they've pulled in the last 15 years.

[Enidigm]

I think blu-ray has better name recognition than HD-DVD. That sounds confusing to consumers, like DVD/R vs. DVD/RW or something. It doesn't sound like a "new" product. I think it will easier to sell bluray to mom-and-pop Smith who can't tell the difference between 720 and 1080 if their lives depended upon it, simply on name alone.

[Rimbo]

The blue laser technology underlying both is not only the same technology, it's made by the same company.

[Lunch of Kong]

I just want a large capacity data archiving solution based on blue laser technology at a reasonable price. How long is that gonna take?

[Brad Grenz]

Define reasonable... I think at this point buying spare hard drives is more cost effective than any high capacity optical format. In any case BR is more geared to writing and it is a more mature platform in that respect. I don't even know if there are any HD-DVD burners on the market.

[Chris Nahr]

I'm not sure how anyone could see a difference between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, unless it's due to the difference in capacity (30 GB vs 50 GB for dual-layer disks).

That said, I'm sure Blu-Ray will win... whatever race both formats are in. Which is not necessarily the race to dethrone DVD, mind you.

1. Blu-ray is championed by a company that makes films which people want to see. HD-DVD doesn't have any content providers that are exclusively tied to the format. Content ultimately decides everything.

2. Blu-ray does have more capacity right now which makes a difference in terms of soundtracks and extras.

3. Rimbo thinks HD-DVD will win. Case closed!

[Shadarr]

Whenever I see an ad for some shitty movie with "available now on DVD and Bluray" I'm reminded of the exact same tag lines for UMD a year or so ago. That one failed and it didn't even have a competitor.

[Rimbo]

3. Rimbo thinks HD-DVD will win. Case closed!

I do? Where'd you get that idea?

I think both formats are losers.

[Brad Grenz]

Whenever I see an ad for some shitty movie with "available now on DVD and Bluray" I'm reminded of the exact same tag lines for UMD a year or so ago. That one failed and it didn't even have a competitor.

UMD is hardly as compelling as Blu-ray.

[Islanti]

I'm not sure how anyone could see a difference between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, unless it's due to the difference in capacity (30 GB vs 50 GB for dual-layer disks).Except that Toshiba has announced 3-layer 51GB discs for HD-DVD (http://www.physorg.com/news87584681.html). While they may not come to pass, there aren't many dual-layer Blu-Ray discs right now either.

Additionally, the interactive features (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDi_Interactive_Format) of HDi (the HD-DVD menu authoring language) seem to be better utilized than BD-J so far.
HDi allows menus to be displayed during video playback, like persistent user-defined bookmarks, picture-in-picture (for cast commentaries/interviews, behind the scenes footage, etc.), storyboards and production photos, GPS,[1] calculators (example; body-count, car-insurance/damage, etc.), technical statistics, and network access to download new features, trailers and extras using standard HD DVD set-top players.

1. Blu-ray is championed by a company that makes films which people want to see. HD-DVD doesn't have any content providers that are exclusively tied to the format. Content ultimately decides everything.Um, totally false. Both Universal and Weinstein Company are HD-DVD exclusive. There were rumors that Universal was switching recently, but those are false (http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/05/09/universal-responds-to-reports-of-going-neutral/).

2. Blu-ray does have more capacity right now which makes a difference in terms of soundtracks and extras.Theoretically, yes. Several recent Warner releases (which come out on both formats) only have DD+ soundtracks (higher bitrate DD) on HD-DVD, though. Here's a quote (http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/05/14/hd-dvd-and-blu-ray-releases-on-may-15th-2007/) about The Fountain:
has a few solid catalog titles for both camps, as well as the best offering this week in The Fountain. Also as expected, HD DVD titles get a DD+ audio track while the Blu-ray fans are still stuck with plain ol' DD.

[mouselock]

Right now I can buy a stand-alone HD-DVD player for $300 and a stand-alone BD player for $800. If that disparity continues (because of the Blu-Ray price premium) then I think inevitably HD-DVD will "win" simply because it's on track to have a huge lead on being the one to hit commodity pricing first.

(I'm actually reasonably tempted by the $299 Toshiba player + 5 free discs offer showing up in ads this weekend. If I hadn't just bought the 360 I'd probably go for it. )

[Miramon]

I see bestbuy.com is advertising a Samsung blu-ray player for $500. Presumably that means you can get one for less somewhere from a hungrier discounter.

[MyNameIsWill]

Whichever one Wal-Mart decides to push.

I do think that Blu-ray will end up winning when PS3 sales pick up. A lot of buyers will realize that they already have a Blu-ray player, so why buy an HD-DVD player?

[Hanzii]

Additionally, the interactive features (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDi_Interactive_Format) of HDi (the HD-DVD menu authoring language) seem to be better utilized than BD-J so far.


Examples?
The HD-DVD's I've seen so far has just been the movie, while Blu-ray has offered additional material like we're used to from DVD's (as well as a lot of Blu-ray trailers)

It seems like Blu-ray is doing the best marketing, despite the scorn most people here have for the PS3, it's capabilities are getting known and even though people might not be buying it, they do know it's a Blu-ray player.

Heck, Casino Royale is one long Sony/Blu-ray commercial with all the product placements.

[EvilIdler]

Both formats are technically the same, with movies around 20GB. Blu-Ray
has used the larger space for extras, but just looking at the boxes, it seems
like none of the discs sold here have anything worth speaking of. They're pretty
on a proper screen, that's for sure. I just don't see a need at the current prices.

[Rimbo]

Whichever one Wal-Mart decides to push.

Wal-Mart's picking up HD-DVD. Supposedly.

[Bill Dungsroman]

Wal-Mart's picking up HD-DVD. Supposedly.
Have already picked up, from what I saw. Still in its early stages though, it seemed to me.

[Brad Grenz]

Except that Toshiba has announced 3-layer 51GB discs for HD-DVD (http://www.physorg.com/news87584681.html). While they may not come to pass, there aren't many dual-layer Blu-Ray discs right now either.

Which will not work on current players? Non-starter. And dual layer BD releases have been pretty common place since the end of last year.

Um, totally false. Both Universal and Weinstein Company are HD-DVD exclusive. There were rumors that Universal was switching recently, but those are false (http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/05/09/universal-responds-to-reports-of-going-neutral/).


Yeah, but either company could go multi-platform quite easily since they are independent.

Theoretically, yes. Several recent Warner releases (which come out on both formats) only have DD+ soundtracks (higher bitrate DD) on HD-DVD, though. Here's a quote (http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/05/14/hd-dvd-and-blu-ray-releases-on-may-15th-2007/) about The Fountain:

Interestingly it looks like the Blu-ray release only has DD English audio, but there is a French 5.1 track as well which is missing from the HD-DVD. Strange decision, but I don't think that is a very common state of affairs.

[Jazar]

Have already picked up, from what I saw. Still in its early stages though, it seemed to me.

Wal-mart shot down that rumor a while back (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2122715,00.asp).

Technically they are both a wash really. Interactivity wise HD DVD has the edge with PIP and network connectivity on all players but by the end of October all new BD players must support profile 1.1 which has most of the interactivity HD DVD has and more. BD-J is a much more flexible programing language then HDi. Space of course goes to BD with 50GB dual layer discs and higher bitrate then HD DVD.

There are three reasons that BD has the edge in this war:

Studio Support. Sony Pictures, Disney Studios and FOX have declared 100% studio support to the format. Comparatively Universal is the only major HD DVD only studio. Other studios like Paramount and Warner are neutral.

CE support. Consumer Electronics wise, right now Toshiba is the only major name brand manufacturer of HD DVD only players. BD has Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, & Samsung.

PS3. In the US, HD DVD has over 100,000 players. PS3 alone has sold 1.5 million.

[Chris Nahr]

Except that Toshiba has announced 3-layer 51GB discs for HD-DVD (http://www.physorg.com/news87584681.html). While they may not come to pass, there aren't many dual-layer Blu-Ray discs right now either.

"Announced"? "May not come to pass"? Yeah, that's totally convincing... especially when existing players may not even play them!

And what do you mean by "not many" dual-layer BDs? There are plenty of BD-50s, most of my BDs are dual-layer and I didn't pick them specifically for being dual-layer. Looking at http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/reviews.html I'd say the released titles about evenly split between BD-25 and BD-50.

Additionally, the interactive features (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDi_Interactive_Format) of HDi (the HD-DVD menu authoring language) seem to be better utilized than BD-J so far.

Who cares, other than John C. Dvorak? I've heard of these interactive features of the HD-DVD format but I use movie disks to watch movies, not to play around with the remote control. Animated menus are annoying enough already.

Um, totally false. Both Universal and Weinstein Company are HD-DVD exclusive. There were rumors that Universal was switching recently, but those are false (http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/05/09/universal-responds-to-reports-of-going-neutral/).

You're missing the point. Universal might say they're HD-DVD exclusive but ultimately they don't care because they don't have stock in either format -- all they want is to sell movies. If Blu-ray takes the lead they'll switch in a heartbeat. Meanwhile, all the film studios owned by Sony will never, ever release anything on HD-DVD, unless Blu-ray turned out to be a total failure.

[Chris Nahr]

Right now I can buy a stand-alone HD-DVD player for $300 and a stand-alone BD player for $800. If that disparity continues (because of the Blu-Ray price premium) then I think inevitably HD-DVD will "win" simply because it's on track to have a huge lead on being the one to hit commodity pricing first.

So you don't care at all what movies you can play, just as long as the player is cheap? You think most people won't care that they can't watch Casino Royale and Spider-Man on HD-DVD? Sorry, I don't think so!

[Rimbo]

So you don't care at all what movies you can play, just as long as the player is cheap? You think most people won't care that they can't watch Casino Royale and Spider-Man on HD-DVD? Sorry, I don't think so!

Of course most people won't care; they'll just buy them on regular-ass DVD to play on their regular-ass DVD players because that's what they have. "Most people" do not have either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD, and things are going to remain that way for a long, long time.

The PS3 may be outselling HD-DVD, but at this point it's like being the sanest lunatic in the asylum.

[Chris Nahr]

Yes, Rimbo. I was replying to someone thinking that people would buy HD-DVD players en masse.

[Jim Preston]

Is it OK if I hate Blu-Ray because it adds an extra 2 weeks to the manufacturing cycle for PS3 games? For iterative titles that's 2 less weeks of development and polish. Hopefully that time will be shortened as more Blu-Ray duplication plants come online, but in the meantime I'm going to continue to hate Sony and to stamp my feet like a child and hold my breath until my face turns blu.

[Brakara]

Easy: HD DVD. But not for any technical reasons like web-enabled features and such. It's purely because all HD DVD movies are region free, which is just awesome for someone like me (half price when importing from the US, not to mention the much larger selection of titles available).

[Rimbo]

Yes, Rimbo. I was replying to someone thinking that people would buy HD-DVD players en masse.

Whoops! Sorry about that.

runs and hides in shame

[MyNameIsWill]

Is it OK if I hate Blu-Ray because it adds an extra 2 weeks to the manufacturing cycle for PS3 games? For iterative titles that's 2 less weeks of development and polish. Hopefully that time will be shortened as more Blu-Ray duplication plants come online, but in the meantime I'm going to continue to hate Sony and to stamp my feet like a child and hold my breath until my face turns blu.

Do publishers send their games to Sony for manufacture? Didn't know this... although Sony also does this for the PSP, right?

[Machfive]

Easy: HD DVD. But not for any technical reasons like web-enabled features and such. It's purely because all HD DVD movies are region free, which is just awesome for someone like me (half price when importing from the US, not to mention the much larger selection of titles available).

Is this going to be the rule going forward? I always hated that region bullshit.

[Brakara]

Is this going to be the rule going forward?

Yes.

The HD DVD camp has yet to institute region codes, and has said in the past that they won't.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Region_Coding/Blu-ray_to_Begin_Region-Coding_This_Fall___/277

Sure, they could change their minds in the future, but the current (and future) region free movies would of course still work.

An interesting note in the link above is that Warner Bros. was the only studio that didn't want region encoding for Blu-ray. Maybe that's why they're generous with their HD DVD releases, since they provide more extra content there than on their Blu-ray releases?

Some good information about importing HD DVDs here:

http://forums.highdefdigest.com/showthread.php?t=3010

If Blu-ray wins I'll be sad for sure, as I would hate going back to that region encoded crap. :(

[walTer]

Is there any reason to buy one over the other yet?

I mean with an HD TV being purchased within the next few weeks, I am actually considering (ok not really but kind of) buying a PS3 if just for the blu ray player and its affordablity.