Do you believe? [Archive] - Quarter To Three Forums

Jake Plane

05-15-2007, 04:51 AM

I believe that threads like this should be in Politics and Religion, regardless of how awful you think that forum is.

I believe that's one way of looking at it. But this is a pretty broad question. He didn't ask if you believe in God but what (or who) you believe in. It's almost like asking what's your personal motto in life.

Personally, I believe nothing is written. There are those who believe somethings were just meant to be, that fate guides our lives. I've never understood that.

AaronSofaer

05-15-2007, 05:35 AM

I believe that threads like this should be in Politics and Religion, regardless of how awful you think that forum is.

I have no problem with P&R necessarily, but this is not about P or R. It is philosophy, something related to religion but with less practical purpose.

I believe that's one way of looking at it. But this is a pretty broad question. He didn't ask if you believe in God but what (or who) you believe in. It's almost like asking what's your personal motto in life.

Actually, I asked -if- you believe, and if so, what. This leaves it open for people like me, who don't believe in anything! True philosophical agnostics.

Personally, I believe nothing is written. There are those who believe somethings were just meant to be, that fate guides our lives. I've never understood that.

I think that, logically, what someone will do in any given situation is ... what they will do in that situation. Given all the factors, there is only one option; choice is what you choose given who you -are-.

So to me, I think, some things are predetermined by the nature of the people involved. Not by God, or by the Fates, but by the very people making the choices.

I used to think that everything was that way, but I was told by someone studying Quantum Physics that some things really do have a random occurence, and that in the aggregate, those could affect the universe. Or something. I really didn't understand what he was saying!

madkevin

05-15-2007, 05:40 AM

"To you I'm an atheist; to God, I'm the Loyal Opposition."
- Woody Allen

Equis

05-15-2007, 05:43 AM

I believe in something.

I'm not sure what exactly, though a large part of it comes from the Christian faith.

But I do believe in something.

Kareem

05-15-2007, 05:50 AM

I believe there's life after death, because whenever I consider the possibility that there isn't life after death, I feel horribly depressed.

metta

05-15-2007, 06:02 AM

I believe I'll have another pint.

Enduro_Man

05-15-2007, 06:09 AM

"The search for the Cup of Christ is the search for the divine in all of us. But if you want facts, Indy, I have none to give you."

MikeJ

05-15-2007, 06:15 AM

I believe there's life after death, because whenever I consider the possibility that there isn't life after death, I feel horribly depressed.

Does belief actually work that way? If someone offered you $20 million to truly believe that the Earth is flat, could you do it? I mean, you could tell yourself that the Earth is flat, but that's not the same thing as believing.

Midnight Son

05-15-2007, 06:19 AM

I don't believe in fairy tales.

Balasarius

05-15-2007, 06:28 AM

Athiest. We're cosmic space dust.

Odds of advanced, intelligent life forming? EXCEEDINGLY rare.

But it's a BIG universe.

Gladguy

05-15-2007, 06:35 AM

I believe I'll have another pint.
Bah! Beat me to it! ;-)

Brendan

05-15-2007, 06:46 AM

...in a thing called love.

But seriously, my belief system isn't static enough to classify. The only thing I am certain of is that most people are idiots. That and that "God" is(are) the physical rules that govern the universe.

Drastic

05-15-2007, 06:52 AM

I gotta believe!

snowcrash22

05-15-2007, 07:13 AM

I believe I saw a flying object, which I was unable to identify.

But other than that, I make no claims that is was secret goverment military plane, little green men, brain damage or LSD in the municipal water supply. Those are only guesses and not actual beliefs.

secretary

05-15-2007, 07:20 AM

This thread has way too much comic potential to be taken seriously.

http://www.spinozist.us/wp-content/uploads/I%20want%20to%20believe%20small.jpg

tromik

05-15-2007, 07:33 AM

Who else thought this was a Jake Plane thread?

Drastic

05-15-2007, 07:35 AM

Also, I need you to believe in something. (http://www.fs1.co.uk/ecard/chems4/thankyou.swf) Namely, that car-manufacturing robots will get you, no matter where you run.

ElGuapo

05-15-2007, 07:39 AM

Secular humanist.

forgeforsaken

05-15-2007, 07:41 AM

In myself, yes.

Charles

05-15-2007, 07:47 AM

I believe in science. I feel good about that believe.

I believe in the essential goodness of humanity. And I feel like a fucking retard for doing so.

Tyjenks

05-15-2007, 07:56 AM

I try not to believe. When you see al the shit in the world. WHen family members go through shit and attempt suicide. When parents neglect their kids even when they themselves are preachers. When churches and their leaders continue hypocritical practices. When your wife gets diagnosed with cancer. When a friend has 2 children born with Cystic FIbrosis.

However, I still have some faith. I still feel there is something out there that is compelling me to be a decent person. Maybe it is just my conscience or soul or one of those mysterious chunks of my brain scientists still are unsure about. Maybe it is all too ingrained in me, that belief.

Dunno.

Ephraim

05-15-2007, 07:59 AM

Who else thought this was a Jake Plane thread?

Not me. It wasn't made into a poll.

The Jake Plane version would have been:

In what do you believe?
1. A higher power
2. Life after death
3. The inherent goodness of man
4. UFOs / Aliens visiting Earth
5. Sony's certain doom at the hands of the PS3 fiasco
6. All of the above
7. None of the above
8. Some of the above

Plus it would have been posted in the correct forum. Jake's good that way.

Gladguy

05-15-2007, 08:11 AM

Well, I believe in the soul, the cock, the pussy, the small of a woman's back, the hanging curve ball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap. I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, soft, wet kisses that last three days.
QFMFT.

Ben Sones

05-15-2007, 08:13 AM

Belief will be irrelevant when the Old Ones come home to roost.

Don Quixote

05-15-2007, 09:06 AM

'be interested in everything, believe nothing'

'I can conceive of nothing, in religion, science or philosophy, that is anything more than the proper thing to wear, for a while'.

That pretty much sums it up.

Kareem

05-15-2007, 10:01 AM

Does belief actually work that way? If someone offered you $20 million to truly believe that the Earth is flat, could you do it? I mean, you could tell yourself that the Earth is flat, but that's not the same thing as believing.

No because the Earth is demonstrably round. Conveniently for me, I am not aware of a way to prove or disprove life after death in some other realm of existence.

Moore

05-15-2007, 10:27 AM

Kareem, you can die and have a look around. It's just a bitch trying to let anyone living know, but YOU'D know. And if there is life after death, no harm, eh?

MikeJ

05-15-2007, 10:32 AM

No because the Earth is demonstrably round. Conveniently for me, I am not aware of a way to prove or disprove life after death in some other realm of existence.

I suppose that's fair. Still, in the absence of direct evidence, I think I choose what seems the most likely, not what seems the most reassuring. If I see no reason to think one is more likely than the other, then I just don't know.

Can you really believe something simply because you want to believe it?

Kareem

05-15-2007, 10:44 AM

Kareem, you can die and have a look around. It's just a bitch trying to let anyone living know, but YOU'D know. And if there is life after death, no harm, eh?

Hey I didn't say it was overly logical, I just find it personally comforting to believe that after dying, I won't simply be decaying worm food.

I suppose that's fair. Still, in the absence of direct evidence, I think I choose what seems the most likely, not what seems the most reassuring. If I see no reason to think one is more likely than the other, then I just don't know.

Sure, and I often do that myself. But this is death. There is simply no way to know for sure what comes after it. It's not a situation where evidence is pending and empirical analysis counts for something. It's a comforting belief for me and whether I believe there is life beyond the first one does not harm anyone else nor does it significantly impact my actions in life. It may do that for others, but it doesn't really affect what I do every day.

Can you really believe something simply because you want to believe it?

Not when it flies in the face of direct evidence. For instance I "believe" in evolution.

Fugitive

05-15-2007, 10:45 AM

I believe it's time for lunch.

Bill Dungsroman

05-15-2007, 10:46 AM

I have no problem with P&R necessarily, but this is not about P or R. It is philosophy, something related to religion but with less practical purpose.
Uh yeah, it's pretty much a lot about R. Maybe not to you, but I really don't see how it could be considered anything else. I think...no wait, hahahaha, I believe you put it here hoping to avoid the usual P&R fallout. I can dig that, but let's be honest about it.

Also, I believe this thread will hold an even keel until DeepT and shift6 post in it. Then, you may as well box the thread up and slap an overnight FedEx delivery tag on it, shipping address Politics and Religion, qt3.com.

DeepT

05-15-2007, 10:50 AM

Someone is worse then Hitler, and someone group is a bunch of Nazis. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_Law)

Kareem

05-15-2007, 10:51 AM

Hitler... Nazies...

12345

Lunch of Kong

05-15-2007, 10:53 AM

Bill Dungsroman

05-15-2007, 10:57 AM

Well, that was easy.

noun

05-15-2007, 11:03 AM

"I think everyone needs to believe in something greater than themselves." - Bill Hicks

Much like the early scientists found reasons to explain away superstitions and myths, I'm firmly convinced further scientific understanding is the key to unlocking most of the mysteries of the universe.

shift6

05-15-2007, 11:34 AM

Also, I believe this thread will hold an even keel until DeepT and shift6 post in it. Then, you may as well box the thread up and slap an overnight FedEx delivery tag on it, shipping address Politics and Religion, qt3.com.
I believe that Bill is a butthead; as in his head is actually someone's butt. Although I would definitely use FedEx instead of UPS.

I believe that people are full of contradictions: agreeing with one point of view based on some evidence or argument, and then rejecting another point of view (on another topic) in spite of a similar evidence or argument. I believe the best way for anyone to approach belief is to try and be as honest and forthright and objective (with themselves) as possible. I believe this will lead people to the same beliefs which I hold.

I also believe that if the Democrats run Hillary in the final election, the Republicans will have another 4 years in office and we'll get some of the hardcore on QT3 bemoaning "idiot redneck Americans".

TheRock

05-15-2007, 11:37 AM

we'll get some of the hardcore on QT3 bemoaning "idiot redneck Americans".

We (Liberals) already do that.

Bill Dungsroman

05-15-2007, 11:50 AM

I believe that Bill is a butthead; as in his head is actually someone's butt. Although I would definitely use FedEx instead of UPS.
I suppose I deserve that after lumping you in with DeepT. I actually meant you often act as a lightning rod for religious argument in P&R - for better or worse. I didn't mean to say you make train wrecks out of threads with your dogma.

I also believe that if the Democrats run Hillary in the final election, the Republicans will have another 4 years in office and we'll get some of the hardcore on QT3 bemoaning "idiot redneck Americans".
See, now you're just trying to make me feel better by being complicit.

Coca Cola Zero

05-15-2007, 12:10 PM

I don't believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, The Tooth Fairy, God or any of that obviously fictional and goofy kids' stuff.

LarryLard

05-15-2007, 12:23 PM

Someone is worse then Hitler, and someone group is a bunch of Nazis. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_Law)

http://xkcd.com/c261.html

AaronSofaer

05-15-2007, 01:26 PM

Uh yeah, it's pretty much a lot about R. Maybe not to you, but I really don't see how it could be considered anything else.

You see religion and philosophy as being inseperable.

I disagree. Philosophy is far, far broader than religion.

It is your interpretation of my question, and incidentally everyone else's, that gives me the answer I was looking for.

Tell me, if I had posted this in P&R, would anyone have considered my question in terms other than of religion?

That people still answered in those terms even with it in EE and an attempt at a deliberately open-ended question was one of the things I was curious about.

Patrick

05-15-2007, 01:33 PM

I believe in receiving the perfect blowjob. Since I have yet to find it, I have recently tasked Elguapo with joining me in my quest. He is way behind in the search but making up ground quickly.

Arioch

05-15-2007, 01:42 PM

I believe in God. I believe there is something which created all. I think God used to meddle with humankind a lot (Old Testament and all that), but then he kinda figured out that didn't work. So he just watches now. But he's still there. And he's there for me when I need him. And he's there when I want to thank someone. I don't believe I need to fold my hands or sit in a designated House of God for him to hear me. I believe all deities (the Lord, Allah, Buddha etc.) are the same being, much like the blind men and the elephant story. God is not to blame, but he will listen to you regardless. I believe God can forgive anything, and I know that he doesn't give a damn about anything I do that devout Christians would call sinning. I don't need Jesus Christ, because I have a pretty good connection to his father. Me and God are tight.

I don't believe in Karma, or that everybody gets what he deserves, but I do believe in being nice to your brotherman or sisterwoman. Dance and scream and love.

Bill Dungsroman

05-15-2007, 01:46 PM

You see religion and philosophy as being inseperable.
Fail. I said nothing of the sort.

I disagree. Philosophy is far, far broader than religion.
Duh. Religion is a subset of philosophy, not the other way around. No kidding. Also, asking about beliefs and hoping people somehow forget religious beliefs when providing their answer because of what forum you put it in. Or something, I guess I'm not actually sure what you were trying to do here.

It is your interpretation of my question, and incidentally everyone else's, that gives me the answer I was looking for.
What, that a thread about philosophy is better served in P&R than EE? You needed to start this thread to find that out? You coulda just asked, man. You're pretty much the only person here who thinks it should be in EE, in case you haven't noticed.

Tell me, if I had posted this in P&R, would anyone have considered my question in terms other than of religion?
Yes, but no more people would have than if you hadn't. Look at Arioch's post up there. It doesn't seem as if this thread being in EE has altered his focus, and it really shouldn't've anyway. All you've done with this move is make some people go...um, why? I suppose it could be argued that making a bunch of people wonder why is philosophical!

That people still answered in those terms even with it in EE and an attempt at a deliberately open-ended question was one of the things I was curious about.
We're just being courteous. The thread's already here and all. You make it sound as if you put this in Movies, people would spontaneously start dropping film titles that dealt with philosophy.

Anyway, that's of minor import. Why did you want to lead people away from religious-based answers or thought? To see if people are capable of it? Did you honestly think people who adhere to a religious faith or belief system would answer any other way?

I dunno, I don't really mean to come down so hard on your thread, really. I just think your aim to be deliberately vague and tricky only resulted in mild confusion and instead of giving people impetus to pontificate, it only gave them a small purchase to use a springboard for making jokes.

ElGuapo

05-15-2007, 01:48 PM

I believe in the perfect blowjob. Since I have yet to find it, I have recently tasked Elguapo with joining me in my quest. He is way behind in the search but making up ground quickly.

Sorry, I don't swing that way.

AaronSofaer

05-15-2007, 01:53 PM

I dunno, I don't really mean to come down so hard on your thread, really. I just think your aim to be deliberately vague and tricky only resulted in mild confusion and instead of giving people impetus to pontificate, it only gave them a small purchase to use a springboard for making jokes.

You misunderstand my goal in this post.

If nothing else, it allows me to compare and contrast between this and other boards / web communities I am a part of, to whom I have also asked this question.

As to why I didn't put it in P&R... *shrug* This thread is, to me, neither politics nor religion. If we disagree, that's fine.

Funkula

05-15-2007, 02:06 PM

I don't believe in destiny, or the guiding hand of fate. I don't believe in forever, or love as a mystical state. I don't believe in the stars or the planets, or angels watching from above. But I believe there's a ghost of a chance we can find someone to love.

And make it last, bitches.

Morkilus

05-15-2007, 02:30 PM

I believe I can see the future...

Raife

05-15-2007, 02:32 PM

You guys will all be sorry when the Great Pumpkin arrives in his orange and seeded glory.

Bill Dungsroman

05-15-2007, 02:39 PM

AaronSofaer

05-15-2007, 03:42 PM

So, how are we fairing?

We're a hell of a lot more diverse, fonder of brevity, and more apt to quip rather than respond seriously than any other community I'm part of.

The forum for Israeli gamers turned this question into an argument of religious beliefs within Judaism, for instance, without nearly a single quip.

All in all, a solid win for QT3.

Bill Dungsroman

05-15-2007, 03:49 PM

We're a hell of a lot more diverse, fonder of brevity, and more apt to quip rather than respond seriously than any other community I'm part of.

The forum for Israeli gamers turned this question into an argument of religious beliefs within Judaism, for instance, without nearly a single quip.
Yeesh. Somebody light a firecracker under those stodgy old fogies (note that age is not a dependant factor upon one's stodginess nor foginess).

All in all, a solid win for QT3.
GG TEAM ^__^

Mordrak

05-15-2007, 05:43 PM

You misunderstand my goal in this post.

If nothing else, it allows me to compare and contrast between this and other boards / web communities I am a part of, to whom I have also asked this question.

As to why I didn't put it in P&R... *shrug* This thread is, to me, neither politics nor religion. If we disagree, that's fine.

Please don't turn into Dirt.*

*No offense intended Dirt.

We're a hell of a lot more diverse, fonder of brevity, and more apt to quip rather than respond seriously than any other community I'm part of.

The forum for Israeli gamers turned this question into an argument of religious beliefs within Judaism, for instance, without nearly a single quip.

All in all, a solid win for QT3.

I really don't understand how this is a win for QT3. You take a forum, comprised of people whose existence is largely defined by anger and violence directed at their deeply intertwined political, ethnic, and religious identity, and ask them a philosophical question, they are going to focus on that experience. I don't think that's a loss for them, but just a natural inclination to express their concerns.

AaronSofaer

05-15-2007, 05:50 PM

I'd like to think I remain in contact with the remaining vistages of my sanity, thank you.

Bill Dungsroman

05-15-2007, 06:56 PM

You take a forum, comprised of people whose existence is largely defined by anger and violence directed at their deeply intertwined political, ethnic, and religious identity
What the fuck?

Mordrak

05-15-2007, 07:51 PM

What the fuck?

Huh? That's what happens when I write poorly. The forum in that sentence is the forum for Israeli gamers, not QT3. However, if you are aware of that already and are still unsure what I mean, please rephrase the question so that it is more specific. :)

Bill Dungsroman

05-15-2007, 08:00 PM

OK no, sorry. I thought you meant here. We ain't perfect beings of light by any means, but DAYUM.

shift6

05-15-2007, 09:02 PM

I suppose I deserve that after lumping you in with DeepT. I actually meant you often act as a lightning rod for religious argument in P&R - for better or worse. I didn't mean to say you make train wrecks out of threads with your dogma.
True I do get hot under the collar in very specific situations, but I think I've made pretty large strides in toning it down (although still with the occasional freakout). I let sharp sarcasm do all the cutting now. ;)

I failed to mention it before, but I have another belief. I believe that Psychobilly Freakout is the least fun song in GH2. Most of the other songs I don't mind getting 4 stars and playing again to try and get 5, because the song is fun. Even Jordan is pretty fun once you're into the song. But PF? Fucking yawn. Seriously. And damnit I'm not going to 5-star all of hard without it. grumble grumble

Kareem

05-15-2007, 10:46 PM

I believe in using double spacing in Word to make it seem like I have more to say than I actually do.

Enidigm

05-15-2007, 10:49 PM

Do i believe what?

Ben Sones

05-16-2007, 12:00 AM

http://www.odditorium.net/HaruhiFaith.jpg

Hawkeye Fierce

05-16-2007, 05:25 PM

http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20070514.gif (http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=820)

awdougherty

05-16-2007, 07:49 PM

When I was about 12, I worked out that it was less risky to spend a small amount of time to believe and find out later I was wrong, than it was to not believe and spend a whole lot of time later finding out I was wrong.

But try as I might, I couldn't wholly believe.

I think this was Descartes' position as well (maybe not Descartes). Basically he made a 2x2 grid. On the left side, he put GOD/NO GOD. On top he put BELIEVE/DON'T BELIEVE. You only lose if you don't believe and there is a God. You can't "lose" if you believe.

As for me, I believe in God, not sure what I believe about Jesus, I believe people are meant to keep falling in love as they go through life and move on as things change (which is weird because I'm married), I believe that poor people often vote against their best interests, I believe in alien life in the universe and that humans will never encounter it, I believe I need to get back in shape, and there are a lot of topics where I haven't figured out what I believe.

Mordrak

05-16-2007, 08:34 PM

I think this was Descartes' position as well (maybe not Descartes). Basically he made a 2x2 grid. On the left side, he put GOD/NO GOD. On top he put BELIEVE/DON'T BELIEVE. You only lose if you don't believe and there is a God. You can't "lose" if you believe.

I don't know if that's how Pascal did it, but this position is usually described as Pascal's Wager.

awdougherty

05-16-2007, 08:46 PM

Pascal, not Descartes. Thank you.

Pogue Mahone

05-16-2007, 09:12 PM

Yep - one of my philosophy professors called it Pascal's Cover Your Ass Theorem.

DeepT

05-17-2007, 06:48 AM

I don't know if that's how Pascal did it, but this position is usually described as Pascal's Wager.

You can't control 'faith' like that. It is not a hat you can choose to put on or not.

If you do not actually beleive in god, but go to church and do all the motions of the truly faithful, you still do not actually beleive in god and thus you still lose.

You can't really 'cover your ass', because the only one you would be fooling is yourself.